This is Pod Popular Podcast for the People, the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate. Hi again, Everyone's Brian Howie. Welcome to the Great Love Debate, the world's number one dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I am here in the very fine studios of Pod Popular Podcast for the People. I'm at the one in Greenwich, Connecticut. Brand new Pod Popular Grantwich, just opened
Greenwich, Connecticut. If you have not been, it's very very nice if you have the means. It is not cheape. But I grew up about ten miles from here, so I feel like I'm back in the old in the old hood. As we record this. We always want to be ever green with our podcast, so I never really want to say when we're recording or when this is releasing. But we are releasing this in the onset of spring, and so what that means it is time for our annual Spring Fling
mail bag. So what I did was I put out on the socials, on the social media and on the interwebs a request. And it's not really about springtime. It's more about that feeling that you might get here or you get in Chicago where it's late March early April and it's fifty nine degrees and everybody freaks out and they jump the gun like winter's over, and then it gets dark at four point thirty and it's six more weeks of winter, like
it sucks. So this is Spring Fling emails letters that you guys sent to us that are about occasions in dating or in relationships where you guys felt you might have jumped the gun, that you might premature jocularity, if you will. So I brought it a pro for this, and we're going to argue about the rules that I think she came. She's a celebrity realer around here. She is a bon vivant, and she has some dating philosophies. And I also thinks she's a very wise person. So she's going to be able
to answer some of these letters. Her name is Jen Danzy. Say hi Jen, Hi, everyone, you have two You came to my show ten years ago, literally ten years ago, and you threw out I thought two rules, but you had one, and maybe I morphed one. I stand by the one I'm morphed. IM want to explain that in a second. Your first rule was what the twelve hour makeout rule, and that means what making out for twelve hours like staying is tantric kind of not exactly sort of.
If you meet someone, you make out a little, they get a little time on the clock. You hang out with them again, you make out a little more, and the idea is that if they can make it through twelve hours and making out, they can go a little further. You do get time off for good behavior, and you get reprimanded for disappearing acts for more than three weeks. So you make out for twenty minutes and then you see each other another week, and maybe you do another forty minutes,
but then you go two weeks. Then it's back to zero. Do not pass go or as a goos down unless there's you know, circumstances like a death and the family or a work trip. See those don't exactly count against your hours if you're not available for making out. Twelve hours of making out is very old fashioned. It really helps, it does. Now that being said, I took that rule, and I'm almost positive this rule came from you. But maybe I'm morphed into something more brilliant because I tend to do
that is fruit of the gen Danzi tree. People always say, when do you know you're in a relationship? When are you dating? Blah blah blah. I believe that the answer to that is when you have spent one hundred hours together. Now you can spend four straight days together twenty four hours a day. If you spend four straight days together, I think you're I think you're dating. I think you're with each other. But if you see each other like every other week for two hours at a time, like you need
to really get up. So I don't care what you do in that time. And I think phone counts, I think zoom counts. One hundred hours with another person, then I think you know enough about them to decide, Okay, we're gonna be boyfriend girlfriend. Well sometimes you think your boyfriend girlfriend, but they don't. But if they're spending one hundred hours with you, you at least have enough information to decide this is what I want to do
with this person. I mean, I have a friend who's probably spent about eight years now with somebody, but they're still married to someone else. In that count, well, they're in a relationship, They're in several relationships. Something's going on. Yeah, something's going on? All right. I asked you guys, like I said, for listener letters on this theme. We got a whole bunch of them. I try and pick a half dozen that are going to represent a whole lot of other ones that you guys said.
They're very different, they're very weird. I did take a peek at these, which I rarely really do. So me and Jen are going to listen to them, analyze them, and perhaps give some wisdom on them. Are you ready, Jen, It's a good exercise for you. Jen's a mom now, I haven't seen her that much since she became a mom. She's a wife, she's a mother, she's a response. But back in the day, she's used to do twelve hour makeout rules. So all right.
This one is from Brent from Wilmington, North Carolina, and he writes, there was a girl I used to work with I really liked. We were in different departments, so I knew her casually, but I thought she was beautiful and fun, and one year at at our Christmas party, I watched her dance and thought she was perfect. Anyway, our company really frowned on inner office romance, so I never did anything about it, but she suddenly
resigned and moved to another firm about thirty miles away. So I decided to call her up ask her out, and I asked her to go first date to my cousin's wedding. I thought she was either going to think that's crazy or think that was amazing. The wedding was pretty close by, so there was no awkward travel plans. Anyway, she said yes. The first date was at a wedding. She was absolutely as fun as I dreamed, and we are still together nine months later. Was a wedding too much too soon?
Nope, not in my case. I mean you're starting at the end of the spectrum of the wedding date. But you lost twelve hour makeout rule. Yeah, I know they did. Here's why. Here's my caveat on this. I think it's fun. You're going there's open bar, it's cheap date. You know, you might have to buy a gift, but you get in the food, there's dancing, you can see how the other person behaves around other people. The one time I think you can't do this is
if you're in the wedding. Oh yeah, because then they're all alone. They're all alone, they're weird, but I think it would be a great thing. You're sitting next to each other at a wedding and people like, how do you guys know each other? And you're like, this is our first date. Then you become more interesting than the couple getting married, unless you're sitting next to a blind date exactly blind date, which is essentially this. He kind of knew a little bit about her. He didn't do that.
Somebody said, hey, I know this weird first date. What do you want to do this weekend? You want to go to a wedding with me? Most would you say yes to that? Back in your swinging single days, even to go on any dates. I hated dates. They were the worst, right, But this is like less of a This is you don't have to come up with any other activity you come up. I'm a fan of weddings in general, so your weddings are fun. I agree. I'll go to any wedding I like it. And so she says, yeah,
I'm up for this. That's a really good sign for the girl. Means she's willing to take a chance. Yeap, You're going to what should be a fun and festive environment. And like I said, if it is not your family. It is his family. It's his cousin. But he's not in the wedding. But that does mean he's introducing her to his entire family. Date one. That's a lot. That's a big commitment, that's
a lot. That was risky, very But if he laid it out to her ahead of time and said, listen, I got a crazy uncle, I got some aunts, I got this, and my dad's going to be there, he might look at you funny. But when people say how'd you guys meet, can we say at work? Because they did used to work together. Seems like the answer. I also think that if you're putting yourself in the situation, you kind of have to go with whatever happens. Yeah,
I think you're diving into the deep end of the pool. I am a fan of this, Like I said, unless you're in the wedding, and then you're really screwing the person, right, because nobody wants to be the date for that person, even if you're with that person, even if you're with that person for a long time, even though it sucks, it's like, yeah, unless you know all the other people, I think it still sucks. All right. I'm pro that Brent, we're in favor of
that, all right. Next one, she writes, I'll make this quick. I met him on Bumble. My opening line after reading his profile, which was full of travel and adventure. My opening line was I think I love you. He laughed and asked me out for a drink. A drink turned into five drinks, and I said I was wrong. I don't think I love you. I know I love you. Five minutes later he put me in an uber and that was that. I never heard from him again. I wasn't wrong. I loved him. I thought he should know.
That is from Bet b e Tte via our Facebook page. Well you better. Bet needs a lesson in love because love doesn't happen, though it can. It's aggressive. You don't think it can happen. How many stories have you heard? Like I knew the minute I saw him getting of love. But she put it the middle of love. Was it risky to say it? You need to? Well, it's one thing to say, it's another thing to force it. She was very She forced it. She got a
little drunk and she spit it out. Yeah, I think he didn't trust the drinks. Nobody wants to hear that either, I would have run away fast too. You don't want to hear I love you right away, not at all, not even close really, because you don't trust the I love you, or you don't see I'm like, I'm awesome. Of course you love me. I would be like that. I would not think they're crazy. I think they had good taste. It's a different kind of love,
like I love a TV show, you know it. What if there's like, oh my god, my opening ninety minutes of the date were so good that somebody could be like, of course I love him. No, you might feel it and think it, but saying it is very concrete and you need to test it. Oh what does that mean? He has to go the distance? Yeah, you got to see if you like him under circumstances besides date one. That is, in order to love them, you have to see them, not just date one. But she felt something and she
described that is love. Because she didn't really have a clear she didn't have a better vocabulary. She probably should have said something like, oh my god, I think you're amazing, or I'm infatuated with you, or this is the best or yeah, I love the way this feels. I love you flat out probably aggressive, but it takes the sting out of it, you know. Oh, it's like a cold knockout. So we are against that.
That a weird opening line. I think, I love you, but it got him to ask her out, so progress, But then she said I know I love you, and he do. We have the ages on these people, sometimes not on this one. The next one we do good segue and I'm not sure the age matters. This is from mb MB who I believe is a woman based on this mbava are Instagram rights. You guys have spoken many times about the pros and cons of sex on the first date.
Well, I had sex with him before the first date. I thought it would be awkward and hanging over the dinner will we or won't we? So he's forty eight, I'm fifty one. We aren't newbies, so I said, we obviously have chemistry, so why don't I stop by your place and we will put the dessert before the entree, so to speak. I went over there, we did it, then went and had a great dinner. The sex wasn't great, but the filet mignon was live and learn,
love them and leave them. I feel like we did connect a bit better. Over dinner because the fog of sexual chemistry had been somewhat cleared. But that was the end of that, an experiment with inconclusive results. She's the exact opposite of the twelve hour met Yeah, so she's like, I'm not going to waste time here's I'm not going to say whether this is good or bad. They are fifth forty eight and fifty one. If they go out on the first date, there is this When is this jackass going to try
and make a move on me? I know this is why he's talking to me. I know this is why we're here. He's just gonna want So let's do it, get it out of the way, and then figure out if we like each other. Wow, risky strategy, but not necessarily any different than if they went out to dinner and then went home. I'm not sure she's gonna know him any better anyway. Does it make him more honest that the sex is out of the way. It's amazing that he followed through
with the date after well, right, so points for him. So he wasn't like, you just want to get some takeout? They still and there was filet mignon. They still went out to the dinner. Yep. My question to her is is the opposite. Did the bad sexual encounter make the dinner not go as well because she's like, I am not going to spend that much time. I'm out? Basically, did that ruin her thought of him? Did the bad sex mean that she wasn't gonna give the guy a
fair shot. That's the way I look at it. Bad sex is sort of it's a deal breaker for the chicks and no, the dudes might just it's like bad pizza. But on the first one, the eyes are wise enough to understand, like, it's nervous, we're awkward, we're not saying anything can happen. It's not necessarily a great experience. Men think like that. The women are like, oh my god, that sucked. He's like, must be a bad dancer. I'm out right right. So that's what
I think that hurt. The way she interpreted how the date would go, and he was probably like, that was great. I like her, that's definitely possible. I just think that sometimes it'd be a little more comfortable if you knew each other a little bit more, unless you were completely wasted, which they obviously aren't. Well, I don't know, I don't know what they have, but yeah, she's like, let's do that. That's a She's fifty, so she's a little older than him. She's three years older.
And there are a lot there's a heavy cougar energy out there, no offense to any of our coup listens, and they're just like, I'm gonna this is what I want out of this experience, and hopefully we like each other, which is the opposite of the way it used to be. Right, Well, it's like speed dating, but like starting at the end of the date. Yeah, finishing it off with a meal. And maybe that was like, see, she thinks doing this takes away the game playing and
the fog of sexual chemistry. I think the fog of the sexual experience that she didn't apparently enjoy that much, lingered over the dinner, which made the dinner not as great as it would have been on its own, which made the relationship not go off to a fair start. You can't play a game. I wouldn't recommend this. Yeah, she reversed engineered, and I think she screwed it up. All right, we are not going to screw up anymore of these. I gotta take a quick break because we got to pay
for things like Filet Mignon and Gretwich, Connecticut. I'm here with Jen Dancy. We were asking we are answering the annual Spring Fling listener letters, and we will be back right after this, and we are back next one. This is from Vanessa via our Facebook page. Brian, you have said before that you can never trust a person who doesn't love a dog, but you can always trust a dog who doesn't love a person. Anyway, I decided
to ask my new very cute neighbor on a dog walking date. I said he could come with me to the dog park and we would get to know each other. Anyway. My dog started acting weird from the second he tried to pet her, and once we got to the park, we were surrounded by a weird energy of barking, growling dogs. I go there four times a week, I've never experienced it. The only explanation is him. It totally freaked me out and I couldn't figure out what the energy was that caused
all that caused all this. He's still super cute, but he's going to have to just remain a neighbor. I mean, I don't disagree dogs have extra sensories that we just don't have. And maybe he was awesome and they couldn't handle it. Maybe he was grave up a vibe that the dogs. I'm going with the dogs, so you could get he always trusted dog that doesn't like that's he might have had some dog hair on his pants and they
freaked him out. No, no, just flat out. They know when a storm is coming and they would have they do so, so that was a good thing to try out right away. Bring the dog around around a lot of parents with kids. Obviously when they start dating again, they're not going to bring their kids around, you know, every single guy they go on a date with to get their opinion, because the kids might not give it on his opinion. But it's also too soon the dog, though,
you're in favor of let the dog sniff them and see what's up. Yeah. So so Vanessa made the right right call to do the date and right call to to leave him as just a neighbor. Definitely dog test him first dog. Yeah, dog, that's that'd not be a bad thing to put in your dating profile. I am dog tested. Oh man, So if it was just her dog and the other dogs didn't act up, but that was too much to the dog park but didn't have a dog. No, that was a guy who came to our show. That was good. It
wasn't my friend, he was. He came to our show in San Diego because he said he liked to do that on first dates, go to the dog park and when the lady and when the lake like him. Well, no, well the lady the girls at the dog park would say which one is yours, and he would say, I used to come here with Rusty And there was no Rusty. So the dogs, I don't know, could pick up on that weird energy. But I don't know. Probably you're right,
Probably there was something weird about him. But if all of the dogs acted up, maybe he spoke in a frequency that bothered the dog's ears. And yeah, that can't be good either. Okay, fair enough, all right? Next one, this is from Jim Jim and Bloomington. That could be anywhere anyway. I thought a good way to get to know someone was to ask them what they would name their kids. We went to a basketball
game for a first date. There was a delay in the start of the game because of a lighting issue at the arena, but they put the player's names on the scoreboard, and when I noticed some strange names, I thought, why not ask her what names she would choose. She got so bothered by the question she thought that implied I was thinking about having sex with her
that night. She asked if we could go. I tried to tell her it was just a fun thing I like to do, but she insisted the name thing was filled within you and and she couldn't get past it anyway. I walked her to the train she took off. I went back into the game and went to overtime. The Pacers won, winning basket by a Lithuanian guy with a strange name. She should have stayed. That is from Jim and Bloomington. I see her point, But isn't that a good thing?
Like what do you want to kids? Names? Would you do on a first date? Or is that just sets off all kinds of bells. You may want to set them up with the people who do it before dinner. Well, this whole thing is people jumping the gun. I get it. Contract we'll do it. Then we'll see. Women ask things like do you want to have kids? And most men answer. We had Julie Furman a
couple of weeks ago as a siren goal. Mine is a is a rough neighborhood here in Greenwich, Connecticut. Julie Furman, who's a matchmaker, said that men will always answer affirmatively if the woman brings up kids because they know if they don't, most women are going to rule them out right, which is probably why I've never married. They run, they don't like that. But so she's gonna say something like, so you haven't, you're gonna have kids, And he'd be like, what would you name your kid if you
were going to have a kid. That implies sex to me, It doesn't to me, and implies thinking about raising a family, I mean the future. Yeah. That her reaction was nuts, right? Would you think that was that? What? That that meant? Breathing? I have some guy ask me about what I was going to name my kids at a basketball game, I'd run, you would run, I'd run. Well, that just meant he was awkward. It doesn't mean that it had sex. It's just he's not the sex part. That's like you just think he's weird. Do
you think it's stressful? Who was getting to the kids part? Back in your swinging single days, did you ever write the last name of a guy you went out with, just to see what that would look like. Yeah, in like sixth grade on a tree with a pencil. Girls still do that in their twenties. They still do that in their thirties. Ridiculous. I didn't even take my husband's last name. I know, Well, there you go. That's a different thing. But people do do that, and
they do think about it. I think it's aggressive, very but I also get that people are nervous on first dates. So for him to have like a little list of these are things I like to ask them or whatever. There's there's the thing that I would do on a date. Do you have a menu here anywhere? I've talked about on a podcast before. Do you
have any menus here? We don't. There's no menus. Look at something on the menu, look at the whole menu, and say, if I were in a band, what would be the name of my band based on something? Yeah, right, exactly, that's exactly. That's a fun thing. I'd be like, I'd be the Hallowpenia poppers. Right, that's a
good exercise. But this is in that vein. He's just not as a band and a baby or one does not require the partner that's true too, but I think you could name your and the Kung Pou Chicken would be a great band name. Easy. What kind of music does Kungkound Chicken play? Conversation? Probably like punk. See that's good. I think he was trying along that vein. I think he screwed up. Nerves play a part.
I'm always on the side of people are very nervous. I'm not saying you need to have sex before the date, and I'm not saying you need to do baby names, but I I do understand that people are not the smoothest. Definitely, Okay. Next one, this is from PROC. P are a k that's not I'm not going to name a kid. Proc. Do you have I know you have a child, but is there a backup name if you had another one? Dude, you have an was it a runner up? Because you do have an unusual child's name. We're not going to
say to protect the innocent here, but you have an unusual name. Was that your choice or you and your husband collectively? It was my mother in law's maiden name, and I'm like that'd be the best name, and it's very generic, so could go girl or boys. I like ampersand oh, yes, it could be boy or girl anyway, which a lot of kids now, they could be a boy or girl anyway. This is proc pr ak. I don't know if this is a boy or girl, and that
is a boy. Here's why my friend group consists mostly of girls. Most of them are, by any standard, absolutely beautiful. I think of them as sisters because I've known them. We've known each other for so long, and honestly, I'm not good looking enough for any of them to ever look at me romantically. But they do know me well, and I appreciate their opinion on who I date. So I go on a first date with a new girl. I said, do you want to go meet my friends at
this fun new lounge. She said sure. I guess I didn't mention it was five girls. She was very annoyed. She said I must either be gay or a player, or secretly in love with all of them. I'm not. I liked her, and I tried to explain that I felt comfortable enough to bring her into my circle of friends pretty fast. I guess it was too fast or they were too much. She didn't like them. They didn't like her. If I waited a month or so that would seem weird,
like I had hidden something the whole time. But I guess it wasn't the right move no matter what. Well, I'm a fan of this approach. I think throw him into the friend group. Yeah, if you don't find the dog group. Yeah, Well I wasn't really. Actually, I was just with a friend at lunch today and she was on a date in LA and the guy brought his dog to the ivy for a dinner date, not even a daytime date. But wow, We'll get back to the dogs in a minute. I'm a huge fan of just bringing them into the mix.
If they don't, you're not going to get to the date part until you can pass through the friend mix part. If I can't hang out with you, then I don't want to go out to dinner with you solo. I agree because I'm a master at these listener letters, and I look for the poetry between the lines, so to speak. Here's what stood out to me, Here's what proc sorry, here is the one line that was the red flag for me. Honestly, I'm not good looking enough for any of
them to ever date romantically. That means, do I agree with that? I mean because people fall in love with people. Well, not only that, no, but that means that he if he were, he's not saying that I don't look at him that way. He says, they don't look at me that way, and they put me in the friend zone. Which doesn't mean that he doesn't secretly think a bunch of hot chicks that he isn't secretly hope for that, And that would be the red flag. And I'm
not sure he explained that to her. But if these girls were clearly hot and he had five hot friends and he was just that dude, unless she was equal or above hot to them, she had have been like, he's with me because he can't have them. That's very possible, and that probably for some girls doesn't fly. You know, another friend who went on a date not too long ago, showed up, met this guy and some ex girlfriend of his was at the bar, and that girl was going on about
what a great relationship they had. It was the best sex she'd ever had. Oh, I'm told the date that. Yeah, she eventually left. You know, she came from you, that's terrible, went out to either like Long Island or the city. I forget where it's the reference. He did not want He didn't ask for a reference. Yeah, he wasn't asking for it, but everything about it just turned this girl off and she left. I'm sure some people don't want their boyfriend or girlfriend to hang out with
a bunch of people of opposite sex. I understand that him hanging out with a group of it mostly girls, But for him to say I'm not good looking enough for them, that tells me that he wants one or more of them, or all of them. Yeah, I don't trust it either. She was right to leave. Sorry PROC in Orlando, And I'm not naming my kid PROC. Sorry prock. Is that short for something proc? You need to follow up proctologists? Yeah? No, p r a K. I don't think that's the right. Maybe he is, I don't know.
All right, this was the batch. People are jumping the gun, and I'm always going to side on it's better to shoot your shot, which a lot of these people are doing. It's better to take chances, which a lot of the people are doing. But you have to be prepared to go down in flames on some of these chances. One that did too paid off here, the wedding one paid off nice well, I guess, and the dog park paid off in a way that didn't. The people had sex first,
not the right move. The one who said I love you first, not the right move, the baby names not the right move, and bringing around the hot friends not the right move. So the rule of thumb here probably is if you think it's too quick, it's too quick, it's probably too quick. All right, Jen, this is your first time on the podcast. I think have you done my podcast before? Not especially been a
long time. We play something called worst date or first date, which means that you either have to you have to think back to your your single days and you have to either give us the worst date you ever went on or the best first date you ever went on, your choice. This is tough because I didn't really dat Well, you're married, so somehow you got there. Okay, all right, I'll give you a good one, an almost date. It was the worst almost date. This is when I was first
dating my husband and I don't date. I don't like going out to dinner. It's just you and me. It was always like just fall into the world that I live in, and eventually our worlds will eventually somebody orders some chicken fingers and accounts as a date, Yeah, exactly, okay, and
he wanted to go to dinner at a place. I'm not going to name the place because it's a lovely place, but it was a weird Italian restaurant in another town that had like blood red carpets and like you know maps of Sicily on the wall and they're you know, half the restaurants filled with priests and the other half mob guys. Yes, and a couple of you know families that live in the area. Food's very good, but it's a Saturday night and it's only been this is probably like you know, maybe second third,
fourth time hanging out in general. And I was like, there is no way I would ever go to that place on a Saturday night to what go sit there and like stare at each other while you eat pasta. I want to be I want to be all with my friends, you know, I want to be doing things. And that was almost the beginning of the end, because he chose a scene from an Italian restaurant for his date, like he chose a He wanted to go to something that wasn't like fun and
cool and happening. And I said to him, like, this is where you go on a Tuesday, after you've been dating for like six months. This is not too much of a chill vibe. Yeah. See, he took a shot like if we feel a was there booths? Was there? Like leather booths? You know they're like black back chairs with wine pleather seat covers. Yeah, so he wanted to get to know you. Yeah, you are Italian, so he was paying homage to your heritage. Yeah yeah,
not necessary, not on a Saturday expectation. Taking the Japanese girl for sushi. It's probably risky. Yes, I know, don't do that, but it worked. No, that almost that was a big fumble. It was risky. Yep, he almost didn't come back from that. Just stick with the Let's go meet my friends and shoot pool and right and hangout out and eventually we will give me nice if you want to try and pick you up like I'm like, no, I'll be here if you want to stop
by. Yeah, I know that's a problem. Picking up is chivalrous. That sets a good vibe. I know you're not now, but back in there you never were. Ever, it's more than one way to skin the dog. Not to say that people aren't. Don't take my life as your advice. Oh, Jen, all right, this was fun always as far as us like, share, follow, Please review this podcast. Even after four hundred and something ten years of doing this, your reviews still mean a
lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot us another email, especially you proc we have some questions. Shoots an email Great Love Debate at gmail dot com. If you've got questions, thoughts, comments, or you could have answered things a little bit better, Or you want to know the name of the restaurant that Jen almost dumped her husband at, go to Great Love Debate dot com.
I can't promise you how many more live shows we're going to do, but I'm getting a lot of calls now because we just did one for our tenth season, getting calls, getting calls, Jen. We catting calls to do one in New York, so I might do one in New York. We'll see Great Loovedebate dot com because, as always at the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See you next time the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a great Love to bab