A couple of weeks ago, Kyle asked Wayne about his trip to Boise. This week, we have the opportunity to hear from someone who was present at that gathering and how it affected her. In her post, she described true fellowship as human, messy, and sacred. That depiction resonated with Wayne, causing him to wonder if our attempts to organize the messy out of human engagement also lose the sacred? Kyle and Wayne explore that question and her other comments. They also talk about finding joy every day, ...
Jul 25, 2025•47 min•Season 21Ep. 30
What do you do when God doesn't do what your religion taught you he would do? Do you conclude that he must not be real, or do you throw out some of what you were taught to discover God as he really is? After a conversation about certainty being the opposite of faith, Wayne and Kyle process Wayne's recent trip to Boise. You can tell if someone is truly a leader in the body of Christ by whether they are an example of his love or if they consider themselves an exception to it. They also talk about ...
Jul 18, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 29
We are so accustomed to the fellowship that human effort can engender that many have lost sight of the path to relational community that comes from building friendships. After discussing testing boundaries and how the enemy twists our spiritual hungers into unattainable ideals, Kyle and Wayne explore a pathway to organic community. Beginning with our growing friendship with Father, Son, and Spirit, we are in a better place to take an interest in others and see where friendships develop and who i...
Jul 11, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 28
How does one find romantic love today, whether you are 19 or 68, and how does God fit into that part of your journey? Kyle has been speaking with many people who are struggling to find a connection in the current culture. Tracy Levinson and Wayne join him for a candid conversation about the desire for a mate and trusting God to provide one as you make yourself available to the kind of friendships that may reveal a lifelong love. They talk in candid terms about guarding your heart, finding conten...
Jul 04, 2025•1 hr 9 min•Season 21Ep. 27
As Kyle and Wayne dive into the mailbag, they find themselves discussing current "revival" tactics that trespass on unsuspecting people, navigating relationships in a polarized culture, and whether Jesus is waiting for an invitation from those close to him to come again and rescue the planet. There isn't so much an overarching theme here, but a lot of thoughts about how we best impact the culture in these perilous times. Podcast Notes: The video of this podcast , which is only available for 30 d...
Jun 27, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 26
The desire for deep and authentic relationships with other believers lies at the heart of our spiritual passion. And yet, that isn't always easy to find, especially if we've moved away from religious institutions. How can we establish a more organic sense of relational community with others? Kyle and Wayne discuss how genuine community is a gift God gives, not something we can organize on our own. What we can do is foster friendships with people in our lives, as the environment in which communit...
Jun 20, 2025•45 min•Season 21Ep. 25
How many believers would answer yes to, "Are you everything God wants you to be at this moment?" Wayne invites Kyle into a conversation he is having with Tobie van der Westhuizen regarding whether spiritual growth best comes from the frustration of falling short or from contentment with what God is already accomplishing in one's life. Much of Christendom foments frustration as a way to motivate people to growth. What if it had taught contentment instead inside of God's love? As Tobie says, "The ...
Jun 13, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 24
In their younger days, Kyle and Wayne felt a powerful drive for spiritual maturity, albeit in a mostly performance-based, competitive environment. How has that changed as they've learned to rest in the confidence of Father's love? This leads to a raw conversation about God's passion for our maturity and how we embrace it. It also leads to a discussion about how we view salvation. If it is amnesty for our failures in this age, and then we're instantly transformed to purity in the coming one, what...
Jun 06, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 23
"To turn boys into men, we teach them to disconnect from vulnerability, from their feelings, from others. The consequence of a disconnected boy is a disconnected man." So says Terry Real, therapist and author who specializes in helping boys and men who struggle to find connection in a world where few men model healthy relationships. He was interviewed on a podcast that Kyle and Wayne both listened to and wanted to share the nuggets they gleaned from it. Intimacy comes from vulnerability, and whe...
May 30, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 22
As Wayne and Sara celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary, Kyle has a lot of questions to ask about their journey in marriage when he is 13 years into his. In this two-part conversation, they discuss how marriage evolves over the course of decades, either moving toward greater frustration or to mutual fulfillment. They cover a broad swath of marital issues, including commitment, faithfulness, sexual play, control, finances, getting help from a third party, and making room for the other to chang...
May 23, 2025•42 min•Season 21Ep. 21
As Wayne and Sara go off to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary, Kyle has a lot of questions to ask about their journey in marriage when he is 13 years into his. In this two-part conversation, they discuss how marriage evolves over the course of decades, either moving toward greater frustration or to mutual fulfillment. They cover a broad swath of marital issues, including commitment, faithfulness, sexual play, control, finances, getting help from a third party, and making room for the othe...
May 16, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 20
"You know that feeling when something's changed in a friendship, but you can't quite put your finger on it. You used to feel close. Seen. Safe. But lately, something feels off." Those are the opening words of an article written by Therese Mascardo, a friend of Wayne and Kyle's. She offers seven signs that can help you know when to end a friendship, and in this episode, they discuss the article and its implications on relationships with people and religious institutions that can help you find fre...
May 09, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 19
The eyes of the world were on Rome last week as presidents, kings, and prime ministers gathered in St. Peter's Square for Pope Francis's funeral. While seemingly a man touched by Jesus, he presided over a religious system that bears little resemblance to Jesus' ministry or priorities. Kyle and Wayne ruminate on how the life of Jesus morphed into these kinds of institutions with leadership hierarchies, ornate costumes, opulent buildings, and programs that seem to do little to connect people with ...
May 02, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 18
Since Kyle was unavailable this week due to sickness, Wayne dives solo into the mailbag to share observations and questions from listeners that have built over the months. Thus, it is impossible to put a theme on this podcast since we get to cover a wide range of topics from our listeners, including dealing with abusive people, finding our true identity apart from sin and law, how God experiences our pain, whether God is vengeful, and praying for our country in these turbulent times. Podcast Not...
Apr 25, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 17
"Redemption has always cost someone something." That text from a friend sent Wayne on a journey of discovery of the difference between the nature of love and the nature of darkness, and he invites Kyle to share it with him. Evil always takes something it doesn't deserve to cause pain for someone else. Love gives something another does not deserve, even at significant personal cost, and bears the pain that others are experiencing. Love and Life can only be offered; they can never be forced, neith...
Apr 18, 2025•45 min•Season 21Ep. 16
Kyle and Wayne have been listening to The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea , a podcast by Christianity Today about the Satanic Panic of the 1980s and 1990s. This spawns a conversation about spiritual warfare and how easily our fears can be manipulated to compromise truth. Our preoccupation with the forces of evil, especially in a fearful state, will do more harm than good. They both share their experiences, questioning what was real and effective and what now seems like a waste of time and spiritual ...
Apr 11, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 15
When pushed to the extreme, how do you know when to listen to your body warning you to stop, and when do you persevere through it? Sara Jacobsen joins Kyle and Wayne for a conversation about recovery from trauma and how to honor the healing process. Sara and Kyle were taught not to listen to subconscious warnings and to continue to please the demands of others to their own detriment. They are learning to recognize stress signals and the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding their response to diffic...
Apr 04, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 14
"Power does strange things to people," say recent studies. "Like alcohol, (it) has a tangible effect on the brain." Holding power over others actually rewires the brain to give them less empathy and respect for others. Is that why Jesus told his followers that while the world assumes authority over others, it isn't so in his kingdom? Kyle and Wayne discuss power distribution in hierarchical systems and why it almost always leads to abuse, indulgence, and corruption. Podcast Notes: The video reco...
Mar 28, 2025•45 min•Season 21Ep. 13
What would the church look like today if it had been less preoccupied with getting its theology right and more in touch with what it meant to be loved by God and live out of that love in the world? When we put the life of Jesus into institutional systems, we gravitated toward conformity of thought and practice instead of helping people discover the reality of love and its transforming nature. Kyle and Wayne explore the idea that justification is not a declaration by Jesus of our righteousness bu...
Mar 21, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 12
In his struggle in Gethsemane, Jesus gives us an example of how to come to rest in God's desires rather than fight him for our own. Kyle and Wayne share how surrendering to God is the path to life, yet it contradicts most of our inclinations. Offering God a willing heart and growing awareness of how he works will allow us to flow with his purpose as it unfolds around us. The book of Acts shows us a people ready to act when God moves rather than people strategizing how best to accomplish his work...
Mar 14, 2025•42 min•Season 21Ep. 11
So, how are Kyle and Wayne weathering the early days of the new presidential administration and the underlying polarization? After a brief conversation about the value of ritual in grounding our hearts, they turn to the day's political climate. Neither one finds themselves too wound up in the political angst of the day but focused on a deeper story of how God's love and redemption are being revealed beyond the eccentricities of the human contest for power. There's another story being written ben...
Mar 07, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 10
Kyle and Wayne start with a brief conversation about the movie "A Hidden Life" and its themes of resistance, conscience, and the consequences of standing up against injustice. They touch on the intimidation and discouragement of following one's conscience when friends and family disapprove. Then they discuss Jonathan Haight's book, "The Anxious Generation," about the impact of the digital age on the mental health of the younger generation. Having a phone-based childhood instead of a play-based o...
Feb 28, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 9
"The Creation waits in anxious expectation for the children of God to be revealed," wrote Paul in Romans 8. That is the heart of Wayne's newest book, It's Time: Letters to the Bride of Christ at the End of the Age. Together, Kyle and Wayne drill down into the themes and motivations behind writing this book. Why does Wayne think the end of the age is near? What does he hope this book puts in the world? The themes of this podcast include the importance of a resilient trust, an others-focused way o...
Feb 21, 2025•44 min•Season 21Ep. 8
Kyle is back from a community symposium regarding the mental health of youth and invites Wayne into a conversation about where community happens for people, especially those who have not experienced it in more natural ways. Real connection and community flow best out of the adventure of a journey as Jesus guides us through life and is often expressed through intergenerational relationships. It's why so many of our attempts to fabricate community through programs or conformity-based cultures ofte...
Feb 14, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 7
What did Paul know about life in Jesus that made him boast gladly about his weaknesses? Wayne and Kyle landed on this verse toward the end of the previous podcast, and Kyle wanted to circle back to it again. Paul not only tolerated difficulties in his life, he actually came to a place where he could delight in weakness, insults, hardships, persecution, and difficulties. Somehow, he knew that at his weakest was when God was at his most powerful, and that became a source of great joy for him. What...
Feb 07, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 6
What did Paul know about life in Jesus that made him boast gladly about his weaknesses? Wayne and Kyle landed on this verse toward the end of the previous podcast, and Kyle wanted to circle back to it again. Paul not only tolerated difficulties in his life, he actually came to a place where he could delight in weakness, insults, hardships, persecution, and difficulties. Somehow, he knew that at his weakest was when God was at his most powerful, and that became a source of great joy for him. What...
Jan 31, 2025•43 min•Season 21Ep. 5
