John McWhorter, Eli Lake, and Matthew Cockerill – Debating Civilian Casualties in Gaza
Episode description
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Video Links
1:08 Intros
4:24 Matthew: The IDF recklessly disregarded civilian life in its October 2023 bombing campaign
9:01 Eli: Israel made efforts to warn civilians ahead of bombings
15:31 Ground News ad
17:35 Are Gazan civilian deaths part of Hamas’s strategy or merely an effect of its strategy?
23:39 Counting casualties in the fog of war
30:04 If Hamas is still partially intact, can a ceasefire hold?
33:28 ACTA ad
38:53 Why Matthew thinks Israel was intentionally killing civilians early in the war
48:41 Is Matthew holding Israel to a different standard than he would hold the US?
52:39 Alternative strategies for prosecuting the war
56:16 Do civilian warnings negate the question of murderous intent?
1:01:46 Eli: I don’t think Jewish critics of the war are speaking for the larger diaspora
1:10:05 Is further normalization between Israel and the rest of Middle East coming despite the war?
1:15:10 Matthew: Israel clandestinely continued its initial starvation strategy in Gaza for monthsRecorded January 17, 2025
Links and Readings
Trailer for Eli’s forthcoming Free Press podcast, Breaking History
Matthew’s YouTube show, History Speaks
Airwars’ Gaza Patterns of Harm report
Yuval Abraham’s +972 piece, “‘Lavender’: The AI Machine Directing Israel’s Bombing Spree in Gaza”
Bethan McKernan and Harry Davies’s Guardian piece, “‘The Machine Did It Coldly’: Israel Used AI to Identify 37,000 Hamas Targets”
Glenn’s conversation with Omer Bartov
Motty Perry and Ariel Rubinstein’s Haaretz piece, “It’s Impossible Not to Know What’s Going on in Gaza”
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