John McWhorter — Anger, Shame, Sadness, and Race in America

John and I often talk about how we feel about race in America, but we rarely delve into why we feel the way we feel. What factors in our own lives primed us for those emotional responses? While John and I often agree about where the politics of race have gone wrong, we just as often experience very different feelings about these matters.

I start the discussion off by raising a question a friend put to me recently: are we wasting our time engaging with “red meat” issues in the race debate? Should we stick to the hard data before wading into the culture war? This leads us to discuss our very different emotional responses to the people we disagree with. I tend to go to anger and John tends toward empathy. We look to our respective pasts to try to understand why we diverge in this way. In fact, we stay in the past for a while, looking back on our exposure to Afrocentrism and black radicalism in our youths and to the skepticism that often attended those encounters. Finally, we work our way back around to “Omar.” Personally, I believe that the Omars of the world can and must lay claim to their agency. That they often refuse to is source of constant frustration and, yes, shame.

It’s an intense episode. It’s also one marred by technical difficulties. John lost his connection at several points during the conversation, and finally what had been a dialogue became a monologue. Apologies for the rough edges!

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0:00 Are Glenn and John wasting their time by talking about race?

10:36 How Glenn and John’s families shaped their attitudes toward race

20:42 Looking back on past radicalism

27:15 Glenn: Is my anger necessary?

33:26 Can “Omar” change his ways?

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