Why Human Relationships are the Ultimate ROI

But you have this guy, Nick Dio. He's like host these dinners almost like on behalf of Gary. Who is this guy? What is he doing? So I'll I'll tell everybody who's listening, Nick Dio is the BP of relationships. He literally goes around the world. And in essence, he's been with me for 12 years, started as an intern, grew up in Vader Media. I trust him to represent me to some degree because I can't be everywhere. And about two, three years ago, I realized my favorite thing about business.

is people. It's probably why I ended up having an agency with 3,000 people when that's not the best business model. It's why I make so much content. I just like the people part and Nick just became another version of that, which is like I can't be everywhere. Who's got a better job than Nick? Go around the world and listen carefully if there's something we could do, something for someone for Karma. Right.

Like no KBI, no ROI. And Nick, you know me so well. You know we have so much to give. Just keep your ear to the ground. You know, figure out who's got the right intent. Figure out who's talking shit and not talking shit. Like who's good? This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

Gary, let me ask you a hard hitting question. I've known you now for a few years, a while now. Yes. Do you own a computer? Uh you know what's funny? I did not own a computer. I'm on a computer right now. I did not own a computer. Uh for four or five years it going into COVID. So what what year did you buy your first laptop? Oh I bought my first I mean I have a company. Oh sorry, what what year did you do do you regularly use a laptop? I went full phone because I didn't work within Excel.

or any documentation and it was all email meetings um social so I I think I stopped having a laptop in 15 went to 19 without one but I've had one since We had a few of those. You know, those luxury brands where it's like quiet wealth or whatever where there's no label. We've we've we found the podcast version of this, which is that the richest guys who come on the pod.

They don't know how to use a computer. They're like assistant sets up a screen. They just show up. We had one guy try to share his screen and he was like, honestly, he's like, honestly guys, this is this is bad. I don't know what. I don't even know what I'm doing. We go just click in Chrome. He goes, what's Chrome? He didn't even know what he was. Because I don't think I have one of those.

It's it's ironic. I would actually argue you know, it's so crazy to think of evolution. So I went through those four years. It was the best. Like not having a laptop at the airport, like it was the best. It's completely the the opposite, right? Like my open claw computer is like the most important thing in my life, right? It's just so fast. Well that's what one of the reasons I was asking you that was I thought you weren't a computer guy. We had Mark Laurie on.

who I think is a m a multi billionaire and that was the first time Sean and I learned about this where He he didn't use a laptop and we were f it was funny. He's like I actually only use my phone. But I've never seen with open clock area. What's and that's what I'm gonna ask you. What are you doing like on with AI at a regular basis?

I mean lots of things. I think with OpenClaw specifically, I'm using it as a capture all for all information. What's been really fascinating, even with I'm still like I never got there like some of my friends were So there's so much loss. Yeah. Like in a meeting, so much opportunity. So the f one of the first things I've done with open claw is it might even happen here. I might literally take a photo of this screen and be like, talk to these guys.

We got it like l and then so it's a photo sent to my open claw on text and then a voice note saying, Mean me and the boys were talking about China. Make sure I do like like it's just basically a It's mainly for CRM for me right now, relationship graph. And then what's so amazing, right, is once it understands my relationship graph, now I'm just building, you know, logic and agents on top of it like

Keep me updated on when things are happening. Like even sending you guys an email automatically in two years saying congrats on a trillion downloads because it knows I know you, it knows that was a milestone for you, and I do want You know, say what's hey, good job. You know, like like it's just like relation hu it's scaling all my favorite things about humans is definitely step one.

Are you recording this in granola or uh or what are you what are you recording this in? I'm uh I I granola's what I tend to use. I'm just I'm actually not Yes I think you ha I don't know if you but this fascinated me. Somebody told me Um I don't know the exact model, but they said you gotta ask him about Nick. He does these really interesting things. He's like hosts these dinners almost like It was me. Like like it's like Gary wants you to come to dinner.

me a photo. It was Sam Sam brought up to you because now I remember Nick bringing up Sam. Yeah, I mean my Who is this guy? What is he doing? So I'll I'll tell everybody who's listening, this is actually a pretty this will be good. This is gonna be good for your career. I think at some point as all of us go through it, you start to every day, and I'm sure you guys are feeling this, you're you're a general

Get wiser, you get more thoughtful, you learn things, and you you know, you start to understand more and more why you're doing things, right? Like for example, I'm gonna I feel like at some point I was like, oh, I I got to the quote unquote.

Because I was overloved. It was good. It was like good fuel. And I have a feeling I'll be able to stick around because I started seeing so many people get to the top out of bad extreme insecurity'cause of what their parents did wrong or childhood and they're gonna fucking show it to everyone and they're like, you know, that was a big aha moment in my early four

About two, three years ago, I realized why NickDio exists. So for everyone, NickDio is the VP of relationships. He literally goes around the world. And in essence he's been with me for twelve years, started as an intern, grew up in business. I trust him to represent me to some degree because I can't be everywhere. And about two, three years ago, I realized my favorite thing about business.

It's probably why I ended up having an agency with three thousand people when I was It's why I make so much. It's you know, you guys have gotten to know me a little s like you guys know like the like some of the subtle differences of how I roll than like let's say like people that tend to look like me. Like I just like the people part. And Nick just became another version of that, which is like I can't be everywhere. And I and who's got a better job than Nick? Go around the world.

And liter and go and by the way, when he goes around the world, it's go to cool places and cool shit and Listen carefully if there's something we could do, something for someone for karma. Like no KBI, no ROI. Like, like pay attention. And Nick, you know me so well. You know we have so much to give. Just keep your ear to the ground. Uh here's where he does a great job. Figure out who's fucking full of shit and who's a good You know, figure out who's got the right intention.

Figure out who's talking shit and not talking shit. Like who's good? Who's good? Let me tell you what it was like from my perspective. I got a DM from you and I don't think I you could have said it and there's a chance I didn't read it uh close.

But it said, like, hey, I'm gonna be in Austin. Do you wanna get dinner? Yes. Yeah. I just said yes. And then I just got sent an invite. And the invite, like I said, it could have said the details. But I show up and it's like fifty people. It was at a very wealthy person's home, this like Microsoft executive And I'm like Where's Gary? They're like, Oh, he he's not here, but I'm here. I'm Nick and I'm hosting it on his behalf. And I met like Yours was yours was felt like more of a Robotope? Yeah.

No, but I I wanna give you credit. I don't think I read it. There's a chance I didn't read it. But I get there and I met like this Rem I remember that party'cause that was one of the bigger ones. It was never alluded to like I apologi I apologize if we didn't word it well, but I remember the context. Like we weren't trying to trick you to meet it. No. I don't think so. And I bet like I bet this cool dude named Hunter. Do you know Hunter? I think his name's Woodall. He's got one leg.

And he uh like won in the Paralympics. He was badass. I met like all this like it was like this athlete, this Microsoft executive, this person, this person. I met all these cool guys. Um, it was awesome. Which is the easiest way by the way to spread good karma and good and like, you know, add value is just, hey, let me just connect you with ten other awesome people versus what can I do for you, right?

Yeah, that is a that was one and it was early in Nick's world where um we uh I wanted him to get a broader like understanding of different people that were in the You know what's tough about things for busy people that like relationships is you just can't scale. You're a human, right? And so like I end up with like these unlimited uh business acquaintances that I wish I could take to the next step.

And Nick helps me scale that a little bit by decoding a little bit because I trust his intuition. He's been with me a long time. And he represents me And he's smart. And I trust him. So then when he hits me and says, Hey, um, you know, this person really needs a new marketing person, like, this is how.

I don't think I'll ever when I'm long gone, I think good stories will come out. Like this is a true example. Hey, this kid's got a good DTC brand. It's gone from zero to twenty million. We're not an investor in the company. I have no vested They they just lost their head of marketing. He was like over dinner talking in a group of twelve, like he's stressed and worried. And then three weeks earlier, one of my best people at Boehner came to me.

you know, uh after eight years and said, I don't want to do agency anymore and like literally just putting that person in that company and everyone wins and literally I don't have a dollar in the company, literally nothing, literally no transaction and like we do that.

In a way that I f I now do feel three like in the last three years, people are starting to understand Gary and Gary B a little more. Like, cause we're doing it at such scale that eventually the truth becomes your actual reputation.

sorry, but you Sam, I just gotta say one thing on this'cause I think to on the surface it's like, Okay, great, so this guy hosts dinners, that's cool. It sounds like he's he's got a mandate to spread good karma and just help people. That's cool. I I think this is actually unbelievable. And I can't believe you don't talk about this more. This is like You know when that story came out a few years ago where it said LeBron James spends a million dollars

And people went nuts. And this went everywhere. This is like a global thing. Other athletes turned on to this. And I wouldn't I was thinking about it the other way. I was like, first of all, obvious.

This guy's a billion dollar athlete. For him to spend a million dollars a year on his body, that's like a masseuse, a trainer, good sh a chef, and that's nothing. He should be spending three, four times that if if anything. Second is What a great Question everybody should ask themselves who wants to be great is what is your equivalent of spending a million dollars a year on your body?

And you know, my executive coach, for example, he spent a million dollars getting coaching himself from the best in different disciplines. He would overpay and say, how do I get, how do I go do an immersion with you? I know you usually do once a week, but I want to do immersion because he's like, I want to be the best coach.

So I'm gonna go learn all the modalities from the best teachers of those modalities. And I just think everybody should ask us and you what you're doing with Nick to me is the equivalent of LeBron James spends a million dollars a year on his body. Gary spends Gary has spent probably at this point five million plus, ten million maybe On devo on just developing relationships with people who he thinks are doing good things in the world. He wants wind be the wind in their sails.

I have three full time employees at Bay. who host influencers that are emerging to walk through the office and meet brand heel tea teams to maybe get them brand deals on pure karma. Yeah. See that's amazing. And I think that that that type of investment only comes from first principle. Doing doing good things.

literally the highest ROI and lowest risk thing. And most people think it's the highest risk thing. Because when they're doing something good, they're not doing something good. They're doing something With the with the expectation or at least minimally the hope that something Well but on the other side of that, it could be like, Well, I need to I'm spending money on these things. I have bills to pay. I I I Sam, to your point, I didn't do this the first three.

career like I got to a place where I could afford investing in that

Yeah, but I what I was gonna ask you is I think that you've always you from from what I could tell, you've always defaulted to hiring a lot of people. I think that like um that it seems like that's kind of been your Yeah, yeah. how you like to operate. And also you've defaulted to doing things that don't really make sense on paper, but because you're you, it does appear as though it it works out nicely in terms of profit, not It also works out and you're happy about it. How do you...

Like justify doing These things that don't make any sense financially, knowing that like when Bayner Media was five or ten years old and your margins were a bit tighter and you didn't have enough money to go around to do some of these wacky things, and yet it still appears as though you did do them. You're absolutely right.

It's a really good observation. I think the very simplest clean, you know, this is now me respecting the audience because I think you have a sharp one. It's because I think most things that are taught in business school are short-sighted. And are tactical versus how humanity actually works and business actually works.

Like if you're go and and then I would also say that I am inherently a marathon runner, so I train for marathons in a world where most of my contemporaries on paper are sprinters, and they train for sprinting, and that's appropriate for them. this great group together. There's, you know, we don't charge anything. I pay for this whole event.

And it's like, look, I asked nothing in return. Which it's all about, you know, just having a really and everybody's like this. We're all like a generous crew. And he goes, No, no, no. That's not. Shit. What is he uh what is he about to say? And he goes, he goes, it's just the difference between short-term greedy and long-term greedy. He goes, you know, I'm he was in the first YC batch, and he goes, one of the beautiful things about Silicon Valley is you learn the virtue of long-term greedy.

Long term greedy people. And he goes, it's not a bad thing. It's everybody obviously wants their interest, but when it's long term greedy, you're gonna play a totally different game than short term greedy. And then I would s that's exactly right. And I would tell you my That I do see in some others, which is why I gravitate towards them, is and then if your law greed is about rainy day human stuff, not money in your bank. It becomes an extreme nuance of that.

Rainy day human stuff. What does that mean? I probably do everything I'm doing, not to get into a deal in nine years. and put a million and make forty million. More for my daughter has an issue in nine in nineteen years in her personal life and for some reason Sam's nephew. Right? Like I'm good enough to take care of my money.

I'm thinking like Like fuck man, your mom has a rare form of cancer and you have unlimited equity in the universe that everyone rallies like the fucking Avengers and helps.

But you seem like you are a really bad firer. Do you give people Would you uh is that one of your weaknesses you think is like being overly generous? I wrote I literally wrote a book because I was so bad at it. I hit it, but it was called And in you know, it was a thirteen leadership principle type book from my perspective at at that point. And in the book, the thirteenth principle was a happy And it was called can. Thank you.

And I was only ready, Sam, to write about it. You know, it's you can only talk about your alcoholism when you're like feeling like you're close to fixing it, right? Like and and by the way, back to like alcoholism or what I was dealing with, which was You're you're incredibly wrong, Sam. I wasn't a bad firer. I was an all time atrocious.

I and I didn't see it. Right. All of us currently the three of us. And we're proud of ourselves in certain areas and know we can do but currently by far the biggest problem the three of us have Right. Like I and and it had so many beautiful effects. It led to so much good, but it actually ended up leading to the worst of the worst. In my twenties. the liquor store for real. Like truly like this eighteen year old child.

And all the way up to where I am now. And so I used to think my greatest strength was eliminating the I had superheroes. I can take care of everything. And I had this day in my early forties which led me to writing the book where I thought everybody was rolling with me with lack of fear. But that many in my company were scared'cause they didn't know where they stood with me'cause I was unable And on Friday it was like Sammy

Fucking have the best weekend, my guy. Like have like really I think you guys know me. I'm a little go-lucky that way. I'm like, Sam, you have the best fucking weekend this weekend, right? And you're working with me for three years. Like, all right, Gary, like you too. And then like Monday, I'd be like, Sam, you need to talk to you in my office real quick. Hey, so you know, it's give me your last day. And by the way, I've been sitting on this for a year and a half.

Back to your point, Sam, right? And today's your last day. And you're like, what the fuck, bro? Like I like you've never said any like and then I would blame you. I'd be like, Sam, you're you're so delute. Could you then I would talk to Sean and be like, Sean, could you believe Sam like everyone in the company knows Sam sucked for last 18 months? I was giving him a gift for the last year of charity, and he's mad at me. I was coming up with that excuse, so my candor was at a zero.

I rebrand so I have this real watershed moment where A group of former Boehner employees like were in a Facebook group, like not talking nicely about me. And these were people I really had a lot of continue ironically, like it. You know, it's funny, that person also over time realizes what they did. So there was like a a lot of them I've reconciled with in a great way, but it was really hurtful.

But I knew I had to be accountable. I'm like, why are these people who are all lovely people who I really went to bat for, did a lot of great things for, who have really nice careers on the equity of their time with me? Why are they shitting on me? And it was all and I knew it, because I just looked at the eight names and I was like, these were all slack.

All of them. Hey everybody, uh hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. And you know what's funny is uh have you guys heard of uh uh obviously you have, but Jensen Hung, the uh NVIDIA guy, uh he has this great line where he's like, I'm not gonna fire you. I'm gonna squeeze you so hard that greatness comes out of you. And then interestingly, Dave.

um Barstool, he had another point where he goes, I never fire anyone. I refuse to fire anyone, but we are gonna make you great. Like he says something like that. And I thought that was so fascinating because that's the exact opposite of what I think. You know, we had Neil Patel on and Neil was like

I only hire people who have been there done that. I only hire people who have built this thing already that I want built. And if they can't do it, then I fire them within a week, which is probably honestly the more common attribute of like just hiring people who have been there done that. And then if they suck right away, you know, you hear hire slow, fire fast.

I I bleed into both those categories by the way, and then have a third element, which is I'm the cliche girl that wants to date the bad boy because I'm gonna fit. Right. So I have bled my if I didn't have entrepreneurial DNA, I would 100% be a therapist, guidance counselor, or a coach. Right. Like, and so I allowed both in my And in my operating. In my twenties through mid forties, too much of my nonprofit.

therapy, DNA into my day-to-day. I've been able to clean it up in the last five years. And let me say this to anyone who's struggling with it was never that I was scared to not be liked, it was that I thought I could fix it. that I would make it, but through love, not like fucking trashing you, like what, you know, and and so for anyone who's struggling with this, like. There's a better way. Like, you know, can't let me say this.

As long as you're delivering things with candor, all of it becomes dramatically more palpable. I was not. I was holding it all in. That became the vulnerability. And I'm really glad as I've gotten to 50, I'm now in that place where I could be a lot better. And it and it's showed up. I've been a dramatically buried. I rebranded it and I'm not sure. It became the ethos of our Because I think candor a lot.

And so we had to put that word kind in front of it. And it's uh it's worked for me and for my leadership and it's been a big step

So who you who do you call for? Who's a key who do you who do you steal from? You like, oh man, I love the way this person I'm gonna take a piece of that to my game. I'm sure you're always learning. I'm not saying that, but I'm I'm looking for like maybe a couple of people or blueprints. I've never been great at people. I had you know I was a terrible you know, clearly had some reading comprehension. is non-existent, right? So I learned through osmosis. I learned through audio and video.

But I learn the most through inhuman, right? Like it one of the things I struggle with with the hybrid and work from home thing is I know there's half the world that learns the way I do. And if you're not learning through osmosis, which is so much Physical environment than it is on a screen through a Zoom, uh, you'd be vulnerable. Like I would have really struggled to learn a company if I was an employee. Right. is predicate on the people and emotional intelligence.

Yeah. I learned through Right. random people that are farming carrots in Idaho to someone going deep cut on what they're doing with Claude Code to pontificate and it's truly like I am a product of this era. Like everyone's whose video are you are you turning the sound on? Uh lately. Honestly, like I you know I'm pissed right now because I want to my favorite thing is to give flowers and the truth is it's so weird Sam like my brother for example would answer this

He's got his fucking ex so dialed in and he would sit here and talk about AI or live shop. Like he would give you like seven names and he'd be like, shout out to Matt Van Horn. You know, Matt Van Horn's a friend. Matt Van Horn's been vibe coach. Like he would be so good. And I'm so shitty because the answer is as soon as you ask that I'm like fuck because I hate this question because for some reason it's so blurry to me. Meaning like

I don't even know, right? It's like it's like it's just like information. Like like people follow the five to twelve best voices. Very well. And I'm like the beneficiary of this on the other side. A lot of people follow at what they whatever want from me on it. My learning is happening. And not even consuming the content. It's like being in the meetings. I mean don't forget, what's weird about me is I'm in the traffic of my business.

Right. So here's something interesting, by the way, men. Back to the LeBron James million dollar thing. I have seven active businesses that are doing more than eight figures a year in revenue where I am meaningless.

Tell us about it. I'll break them down. Vayner Media, Vayner X, which is 400 million in revenue. I am the day to day And that that owns all the other six? No, it own it owns none of the other six. Next Vayner Sports. You know, I took three recruiting. Oh, Vayner Sports does sports representation. So we rep Kirk Cousins, Sauce Gardner, Aidan Hutchinson, Bo Bachette. Um NL stuff too now or just pros? N I L at scale. Okay, so that's doing tens of millions. That's doing tensor.

Um I have CR group, which is a restaurant group, which is, if you remember famously, I had that NFT restaurant news alert every day. It's called Flyfish Club. Uh we also have capons and Ito and five restaurants and and I'm Actively involved texting with David Rodelitz all the time. So B C R group. I have V friends. Is probably the thing I'm most like AJ and David Rodolitz are 1A in the prior two businesses. I am one A. In V Friends.

I'm building a true brand. Like it that, by the way, that is a dark horse channel. One of my greatest roses because all the ashes of the NFT era that I'm gonna get to the other side and be Marvel and Pokemon is gonna fuck with everyone so heavy and Um wine library, people will be flabbergasted. How involved I still am. Um my best friend runs it. But I work on it every single day. One that's really under the radar radar, Vayner Watt, I have a very successful TV production.

brewing right now called Vayner Watt. We have a bunch of shows that have quietly just sold. So you like literally on Hulu and ABC and Netflix, like you're gonna see Vayner Watt, Vayner Watt pop up. And then finally The the NIL and brand of Gary V I have a full massive You know, it's a real part of my life. Do you have ads or just or is it monetized via speed? Um

I I did a deal with Stan Store. Uh I did a deal with master class. I'm starting to let I'm starting to be open to Gary Vee. I don't do like a brand deal. I'll look at seven and eight figure NIL deals where it's really integrated, potentially me doing a little consulting.

as well. But I think you guys are probably I'm writing a new book called The Individual Empire, which talks about the me, the Bartlett's, the Alex Cooper's the the the the rise of the creator entrepreneur and the entrepreneur creator as the next Fortune 500 companies and my belief with AI blockchain evolving social def you know decentralization of Hollywood and and Madison Avenue and Wall Street.

that the biggest companies in the world are human based organizations where the human either has a partner that could operate or they're a me where they can be both. Um so That's how I look at that world.

You just named six. I'm sorry, what? Oh sorry, y you just named like six or seven companies that are that you're like, I'm either the one A or the one B. And I think that's awesome because I too wish I had 96 hours a day. And so, you know, walk us through what's the what does the day look like? What's the time blocking look like for this, right? Like.

You know, Elon is like, uh I spend three days here at SpaceX, three days at Tesla, then Saturdays, Sundays at work, and I work till 2 a.m. every day. Like, you know, what what is this what's a day in the life of Gary Vee to do all that? You know, I wake up at six or seven, there's a workout session every day it Um I'm pretty much an eight. to eight thirty to ni eight to nine A. M. star point, done between And ten PM depending on the day, but there's not a single break. No lunch.

And again, let's get to the point here, right? Let's get to the point here. This is thirty years of building equity and Sam said My secret weapon is And again, you guys again this is fun talking to you than let's say a net new podcast where I've interrupted. I had this feeling, which is truly this has been a good prediction of mine. I had this feeling that I was gonna be able to have a lot of really good.

A and B players around me that would stay with me, that could do bigger things, could do things on their own, but that the relationship. And that and that they would believe in me and then that they would say, you know, in 15 years I might actually make more money being Gary's number 13 versus me my own number. I just had this intuitive and that I could convert D's into B's and C's into B's.

I just had this feeling that my superpower was the human relationship side. And so the reason I can do this, so yes, I work a lot, and yes, I mean I'm uncomfortably efficient. And yes, I'm on a boat which has seven holes and I put my finger in the one that needs it most for every parent that knows you're only as happy as your most unhappy child. And so my ebbs and flows of like, oh shit, Vayner Sports needs me, or oh shit, Vayner, like there's all that.

But the real reason is because of the fifty people from Ryan Harwood or Kalen or Claude T or AJ and Greg Genskey or David Rodlitz and Connor Hamlet or Andy Kay and John and J. John Troutman and May and Rips on V Friends or Brandon Warnkey on Wine Library or Eric Wattenberg. And I've got another one coming that I'll announce next year, standalone business.

Uh and it's somebody who's worked for me for eleven years who's gonna be my co-founder. And I had the experience with Resi. You know, like people forget that I'm the co-founder and inventor of Rezi, but I had Ben Leventhal be the one A, I was the one B, and that was a hefty nine. And I had Two former interns of mine who worked for me for eleven years and we started Empathy. Sold it for a almost nine figure head.

brands in 18 months just like you know everyone's like gruins i'm like i did that not to not to 1.2 billion but to you know you know you know and so blah blah blah blah blah it's because when i do things on a net new business the person is It's family bad. We know everything about each other. It's seven. They roll differently than a lot of people trying it with never.

Well I was listening to your podcast this morning and someone asked a They said uh I'm doing live shopping and live streaming but I don't wanna do this all the time and I'm nervous that this all relies on me and I wanna get other kinds You have listed six or seven businesses doing tens of millions in revenue. Presumably you're getting close to a billion you're doing many hundreds at least in revenue.

It all is started off of you and I don't know what percent is run or you get customers still for each thing because of you, but a lot of it's based on you and your Do you get nervous about that or do you not care? You think I just love this so much that I ain't going anywhere?

Not only do I not love it s not only is that true. This is what's going to happen. Like if you look at the derivatives of all the people that are like kind of that crew right now, what do you think is happening? And then of course there's Kylie Jenner and Haley Bieber where they need a business person to also be in. But then there's also like I mean you guys are like in po it depend you know everyone has different hopes and

And Sam, you've nailed it. Like to me, like I love this shit. Bro, you know, people go and buy a home in the Bahamas and that's and play golf and that in Baker's Bay and that's their escapism when they need an escapism. People have skiing, people have so many and sometimes unfortunately they have bad things like drugs and out like people need escapism. You're just going when I need a break from Bayner X, which I do a lot because client services.

I don't go to Aspen. I go to two days off sites for V friends because it fucking fills my soul. And I do the comic stories of my character. You know, or I go to a half day at Wine Library and talk to Brandon'cause he's my best friend since I was fourteen and I need it for my soul. But then we also fix the fucking business.

Or I go on a six hour flight and ask AJ to come with me because I need him'cause he's my brother and I just need that good energy'cause I'm fucking frustrated what's going on with V friends or wine library and we fix the inner sports. You know what I mean? What uh

Uh'cause I suspect what you're doing in fifteen minutes is taking most people an hour. So maybe you have a form I'm mad at you, bro. You took my shit. I was about to use asked that I was about to say the thing that everyone's house is spending an hour on. Yeah. Bro, uh this is gonna be one of the highlights that I know from this meeting, uh this podcast. Everyone's gonna I love that I said meeting. This feels more like a business meeting than this is why you guys are so successful. Um

Everyone's gonna say yes right now on the treadmill walking the dog in their car on a plane or however they're consuming this. Everyone's meetings are twice as long as they need to be.

And I just went there. I knew it subconsciously, then it became just you know, then years went on and it became conscious and then I executed. And I've been in that and I would say a lot of what has led to these this You know, I have this huge pride of how underrated as a business Because what I just dropped on you guys, literally nobody really knows, which is wild because I'm Gary V and I'm talking all the time.

Um and I think I got there on the f the 15 minute meeting and the family business vibes of my partners in crimes and the top and by the way, it's not just one person. Like every company requires three or four family members.

For it to really work the way it works for me, because you gotta have a backup and a backup and a backup because there's so many variables that can go into these things. So the 15-minute meeting has been gangster for me, game-changing for me. I do think I'm getting three days of work if. For sure. What percentage of I'm sorry, Sam, I wanna say this. This is all happening at a time where I'm spending more t I mean, more time with my family than ever. You know, I've teached. A wife, uh you know

I got remarried a year ago. Like I'm like way you know, I kind of went with the generic, but there's so much more slicing and dicing than I'm accustomed. My son is all in on AAU basketball. It's eating up all sorts of time. You know, my daughter is gonna go to college in a couple years, so I'm milking unprecedented levels of time with her. So like it's just like you can be so much more efficient if you have remarkable people around.

And you're obsessed with not wasting time to fill the slot. What percentage of those meetings are you making decisions or being in I would say thirty percent I'm being informed, seventy percent I'm making information. That's insane. The contact switches. You know what's it's funny you said that. I've got a bunch of new film people because all my people luck, this feels incredible. Go on to these incredible things after they film me for a little while and get all these offers.

And so I constantly have a D-Rock coming through, you know, every year or two. The number one thing, Sam, every single new admin and every single new person that films. With like to a T is they do not understand the switching. That I and I talk about something that never even crossed my mind until the last five years when this got louder in my circle. I don't even I didn't even know that was a thing. Like I didn't know that people like if they're in this kind of meeting.

that need to like decompress as th or whatever th whatever people are doing to go to the next thing. I I think I it clearly DNA, I wonder if growing up in retail where you're just switching like everything's just always on. Well I actually think that On the podcast, and like as we were doing the sound check, he got a text from his daughter saying she didn't get into the college that she wanted to get into, and it

Screwed him up. Like the the rest of the podcast was kind of shaky because he was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I can't stop thinking about my daughter just texting me this. I'm so sad for her. And uh We're talking about another thing altogether. I'm going from you know, you're you have an HR headache and now you're doing uh financial planning for three years and now you're going to Describing the same thing. Like if I get bad news I'm like how do I not

Well I'm actually I'm building on it. I think one, it's it I've come to learn it's unique to do that. Two, now you're really That has definitely been even that has definitely been something um that I got from my mother, which is being able to carry.

in the moment adversity and negativity and still show up. Like I think a lot about that as a leader. Like I get a lot of bad news every day. One, I'm psycho and I'm in the HR of all my companies. And now we have so many goddamn employees.

Every day someone's dad is s it's just like I've actually it's I've actually thought about shutting it off because I'm like this is just almost getting depressing now'cause it's always like unf like I asked the team to let me know about those so I can send it to the case. Flowers or I want to know. I want to know if somebody in my company is going through tough stuff. And then there's just when you're in client services. Um, we went 16 months without losing.

at Bainor X were ripping hot, right? Uh and then recently in the last sixty days, we've lost two. And you know, and they came boom boom. And the second one was like mm and the first one was not surprising. The second one was

And I was walking right into another thing and I was just like, it's funny you say that. I was like, man, I've really gotten to that because I was pissed and like I wanted to fix it, but I knew I had to show up for this thing and this thing and this thing. And then not to mention all the things that happened in my personal life similar to the college thing.

There's always something just like being able to like fucking eat shit and firefight is like a really strong emotional framework that is hard. I I tease Sean all the time. Sean, what's the joke? What's the stereotype if I w if anyone wants to get a I don't know. No, you d Sean will not reply. Getting in touch with Sean when you need to sometimes is a pain in the butt. With me, I tend to reply but it wears me out. I get so exhausted because I feel like Like please these people, Sean's.

Worst part is I go to him and I say, Hey, long time no talk. When I think of somebody and I see that actually they have been talking and I haven't, I'm like, fuck, okay, I shall even send this. Maybe I should just I'm a mix of the two of you.

full-time admins that people know that like people know my intent is to get back to them, especially if they work for me. You know, friends, acquaintances is is a little people know that it's email, not text. If they really know me. If they don't know me, they may think that Dude, but like when you get I made a humongous mistake during COVID. For some reason, instead of just being like a normal business person and doing it all

I decided my deck, because don't forget, I didn't have a computer and I was doing everything through iMessage. So when I got my computer, I went desktop iMessage. And I open sh Sam, it was the worst mistake. I have that open right now. Yeah. Sucks. But I I I open it all the time'cause I gotta type something long. Kills me. I would say I would say I'm in between you guys. I try to reply a lot. I use flights quite a bit to catch up. Um and then if they can't get me, they get to the

six or whatever you said that are working. Obviously maybe a couple didn't work and then there's hundreds of opportunities you're saying no to. So what's the what's the bar now? What's the box? How do you think about that? Like I want to do this and I want to do what this person Say that again, Gary. Say it say it cute. You said tummies. I got tummy tickles. You know, it just there's so much serendipity. To it. Uh A D you like that behind the scenes? Ha ha ha ha.

You know, I uh yeah, just I'm comfortable I'm very And this is a theme of this whole interview. And I thank you guys, you've done a good job extracting some Um I'm very comfortable. I'm Like too comfortable. Well have you guys all ever came close to bankruptcy or or not been able to make payroll? Payroll. But nothing I I'm an immigrant man. So Vayner's cash flow or or bo or um or uh balance sheet has always been solid? Yeah, I've had to make payroll.

You know, I got trained by a Soviet immigrant father who didn't even who let alone raising cats. Debt, forget it. Literally didn't have a credit. And we were in the liquor business where you had to legally pay your bills on 30 day terms or you went on COD to the whole industry and you couldn't get product. So I think I got trained so You know, always have money in the bank for a rainy day and thirty day terms legally bounded.

And no credit line, that by the time I went to my own journey full time, it was in my subconscious of like, well, you always have that money. The end. You made a lot of...

think is doing cool shit right now? What are you know, either businesses that are kind of Maybe something totally unrelated to what you do, but wow, you know, you get exposed to stuff that the average person doesn't. Where are you seeing a lot? Oh, there's so many good areas. I mean, like, you know, um

I'll go I'll I'll answer a question that might bring I'm trying to think about how to bring the most value to the audience. I'll go to places where people are betting on five years from now, not to create an exit five. So that takes me to people that are really spending on advanced AI dating at like like really knowing where the stigma is today, but won't be in five years. Right? Like creating a entire agency of virtual

Right. Knowing right now it's a little weird, but let's survive three to five years and we're gonna have the CAA of virtual people. They're all gonna be the most famous virtual people and we find it. I love everything and this is my wheelhouse, but I love everyone who sells something to the consumer that realizes what live shopping's doing to e-commerce is what e-commerce did to

like real life. And so what I mean by that is like in six to ten years, you know, I think e com now is what, twenty five, thirty percent of the market. Like in six to ten years, live shopping will actually ten to fifteen percent of all commerce. And I like that. You know, I think I I I did not. I did not I obviously talk about whatnot all the time. I was not an investment. You can talk about live selling for years.

Sean, you'll love this. Anytime I've invested in something that's I make a lot of content on front. So the way you know if I'm an investor in something is I'm saying it a lot early on because I never so you know I'm sure everyone thinks I did. And by the way, it w it ran through my table. Like I don't I wasn't actively investing.

Which is the answer Sean to why I didn't. And I know it crossed my desk, but I never took like a meaningful meeting with Grant. But I'm so happy for him. He's done a great job. My friend Chris, who's like in the music business, has a small fund, he invested in it like some I think Sean, didn't they ask you to invest in the seed run and you forgot? No no no

Uh not a f finally one I didn't shoot myself in the foot. Somebody else shot me in the foot. I met with Grant. I was like, I love this. My last business got acquired by Twitch. I'm amazing. Have you have I told you how amazing I am? You gotta let me invest the rounded like just close, but a lot of times. They'll let you in if they like you. Lockdown.

He no he he didn't he he was just like let me see what I can do and I didn't hunt to chase it down like ten times more and I just let it go and that was a that was a big miss. I have a great email in my inbox from Joe at Beta Air Uh Airbread yeah, I'm trying to remember was it yeah, airbread and breakfast dot com Yeah. Do you have any other ones that you haven't talked about? You know you have Uber, obviously. That's the famous one.

That's like a Airb Airbnb, but I never saw the email so it doesn't hurt. Uh Pinterest. I had a guy who was the CSO, the chief strategy offer at Campbell Soup, who was like 60 years old, said, Gary, you gotta look at this startup from Pennsylvania. That's how he said it. My friend's cousin knows the guy. I'm like, okay. That's like I'm that's it It's like I got a guy. That's like getting a script for Hollywood in Chicago, you know. I didn't even like contemplate it and then

And then it yeah, so that was close and then but I got in later through Scott Belski. Uh what a great investor he is. He invested in I think Uber and Pinterest in the same couple of weeks, both at a three and a half million dollar valuation. Both was like twenty five thousand dollar checks when he had like That's exactly right. Seventy five he told me he had like he's like I had he's like I had seventy five grand in personal savings and I put twenty five in each of those companies.

It's like eight or nine figures. And by the way, he's better than that even. Like he's got more than And he's an operator. He's one of the best. Yeah, I mean I'm I mean mag you know, one of the reasons I'm starting my next thing is a lot of CPG's magic spoon. A lot of good brands came to Vayner wanting us to be the people, but we didn't take on those kind of clients. Some things I invested in, some I didn't. I want to be better at that. Um the best one.

Uh my biggest win that I don't deserve is gonna be liquid death. Mike's Mike worked at Vayner Media the day before. creative and he sent me an email and said hey I'm leaving thank you for your time I learned a lot Would you like to invest? He was a creative. I'm a cliche businessman that thinks creatives aren't business people, right? So I was like you know, and I didn't know him well enough because we had a big company.

And I'm like, Well, he's also saying that he's launching a water company called Liquid Death. Like that that is like a silly thing on paper. You'll appreciate this. The way I think about branding and marketing, it actually fits me more than it doesn't for me, the way I like stuff. So that wasn't the crazy part.

I was kind of agnostic about that part. I thought it could work, but I didn't think it was brilliant. And I definitely didn't think what a lot of people thought, which is it has no chance. Because on consumer brands, marketing is an a stunning variable, especially if the product's a commodity and water is a commodity, right? like water and plastic versus water and can

change the variable. In fact, the can is the advantage. So I understood that part. It was more interesting why I invested. It goes back to this nice guy theme a little bit. I just wanted to invest because I want to support my employees on their own ventures. So I literally did it. For that reason only.

Do you ever um? You're you're significantly larger than both of us, but we sort of run in the same world and there's a lot of scammers and shady people. in this like content and business world, business content, whatever you want to call it. And when you like I've noticed that as we've gotten bigger, I try to be very careful about who I associate with. Yeah. Do you

Being a nice guy, do you struggle to like say, I don't wanna be around this person? Like they have a background of doing X, Y, and Z or they don't they don't or they're they're they have political beliefs that I don't buy into and I don't wanna be associated with the I'll I'll be honor you and you guys know this I never talk politics. Pol political beliefs won't throw me off because I'm very empathetic that people can see the world. I mean hate.

Or like ridiculousness on both the left and r extreme leftism and rightism as we know it today, sure. But like political beliefs, no. But I don't think they do honorable work? Sure. I've struggled. You know, also, you know, me being on the speaking circuit for so long. Sometimes those, you know, those kind of characters might be at the same place and they want a quick selfie. That's what I'm talking about, yeah.

And you know this. I I I you know, you're smart and so I know that question is grounded in you know that I've avoided Association, and that's the reason. Yeah, of course. You never I mean, there's people the amount of people that will take a self, forget about people we know. There are people that are tier 19. People that are trying to do this, they have like four followers and they sell a four thousand dollar course and they're criminals, right? Th they'll take a selfie with me at the airport.

And then make a post and say that like we had a meeting at the airport to strategize their fucking mastermind. Well, they did when they asked you a question. I guess we're It's really you do have to be conscious of that and you do need to worry about your animal.

And now with deep fakes and where this is all going, we're gonna go through a really mucky era where I really believe being the bigger person, being a nice person. You know what's really interesting? Actually, I want to ask you guys a question. Has this hit your radar? This blows me away. We are fortunate. We've worked hard. We had talent. We're at where we're at. And what that allows us is to spend some time in private and public settings with others.

The thing that completely And when it was happening to me and my contemporaries, my how many winners, and I mean winners, they've got the girl, they've got crazy money, they've got it, will actually still fucking spend most of their time shitting on other winners.

out of envy or I don't even know what. And I'm like, this energy, like I'm like, what do you like I had to say this to a couple of buddies not too long ago. I'm like, you guys are a bunch of fucking 14-year-old bitches. I'm like, what are you talking about? He first you should be happy for XYZ that they're crushing it. Yeah, he's not the nicest ever, but he's not a piece of shit. And by the way, everything you're sitting on.

You guys do the same shit. What is this? Like you're winning. Like focus on winning. If you're so actually sad that they won even more than you and you got feelings about it. Why don't you take these three hours of bitching about this person like fucking Yentas and go fucking build something? I think they're good wonderful people with good attitudes, but uh they're definitely imbalanced in some core way.

They're not well-rounded, chill-ass, you know, people, right? Like I think the ex-your unlikely to be extreme winner without some version of an extreme winner. Sure. And that I think that's fair. Uh Hunter S. Thompson said that he said there's there's no reasonable people on the town on on the top of Mount El Yeah. G Gary, I I had a a person kind of point this out to me about about why this happened. So I don't know if you've ever read

Mimetic theories. Like Peter Thiel's really big on this, which is basically the core thing. You'll get this as a consumer guy, which is that we don't want what we want because we want it. We want it because other people want it.

But I believe in that in fact in fact this is where all Mother and DNA. I want it for my process. Yeah. catch on because I want to go buy nidos right now because all the other kids are buying nidos and I want to say this because other people say this. I want to wear Jordans because they wear Jordans. Yes. Right. So it's not uh so that's like a normal thing and there's a another term in that philosop

A mimetic rival. And so I was on a uh I was on this plane ride, and I had this embarrassing moment where I was admitting to somebody, I was like, you know what? Like I feel stupid even saying this.

God, it kind of drove me nuts the way this guy was saying that I was kind of bitching about somebody, which I rarely do, but I was doing it and I was like, honestly, I was like, guys, I feel stupid saying this, but like that shit bothered me. And I blah blah blah. And he goes, he goes, you know what? Um The gummy brand and you were like, Well, Groons did this, but we did this too. There's a hint of that, right? Like

But it's so funny. But you notice that I had to say smaller at the end of that sentence. I get it. I was paint trying to paint a picture of like the pride to your point I have of doing a lot of things early. But uh but but I do think humility If you have it with, to your point, competitiveness and alpha, if you can get I always call it a bridge. If you can have these counter things and find balance in it, you can get really palpable.

Right. If you're nice and humble, but you're also a fucking gangster and want to win and you can push hard, you find this weird middle of peace. That's kind of how I am trying that's what that's what I feel I am. Right. Bezos was launching like his rocket and Elon's launching his rocket and then they had this really passive aggressive thing. It's in Elon's biography. It's very funny. It's like, congratulations to b uh Jeff on the first suborbital.

And then Elon landed it and he's like, Congratulations on the first successful landing from only a you know, two megaton, whatever. It's like they added these little qualifiers, they started blocking each other because for each other they're mimetic rivals, right? Like And it's it's a very strange thing. No, I think. Is that Italian? And it's funny. I literally believe the reverse. I genuinely believe that the far majority Get to the top from extreme insecurity. They're badass.

production company Van or Uh they're freaking awesome. And I was looking at the some other your partners and your other business. In order to get these off the ground, do you have to fund them personally or do you get backers for a lot of these things? Because y it's sound like I'm reading this deadline article and you have like a list of like five or six people and they're ballers and I'm like those guys aren't

cheap. He wanted On the rest, um, I Like I was looking at the I didn't know but that you had a rush. I was looking at that and it looked like a membership club and I looked at the interiors and I was like It it was a it was a meaningful build out. Um like no it's it's been really cool. Like I um

I've been a really fun part of my career. I'm actually I actually just use this platform, this incredible platform, so thank you for having me of talking a little bit more because I actually want to start talking a little bit more about me the juggler.

Mainly, yes, to your point earlier, I am proud of what I'm doing. And I, you know, no one really knows, which is wild. Um and I'm proud of that too, right? That goes to the humility, but now I'm maybe ready for being like, hey guys, by the way, I'm not a motivated I might actually be a weirdly good Well, yeah Sean, Google Fly Fish Club Manhattan or just Fly Fish Club. And please come when you guys are in New York. You'll be I live here now, Gary. I live on the upper west side.

So like ASAP, email me after this. Like ASAP, ASAP. I want you to see it. It's it's a three-story restaurant with a private posse room. Like it's real. But more importantly, because you know this, it could also be going out of business. Like you could, you know, it meaning it's a like the business is extremely viable. The in fact, Sam, now that you're here, Upper West Side, if you just go over to GW, which I know is counterintuitive.

The restaurant we opened in Bergen County, New Jersey called Capon's Chop House. We now know we're about to open another one in Westchester. We're about to open 50 of those. Oh in high net worth neighborhoods of the biggest cities in the world, we got the model. We got And and don't forget, this is the brilliance of what I think when when it's all written, the Vayner X marketing machine impacts all these businesses. What's the model?

model is the model is open up the new version of Ruth Chris and like the best stakehouse. that has the most New York City vibes. Just not in New York City and everyone in bridges and tunnels of the seven most important places on earth that have high net worth individuals are gonna sell the fucking shit out of these places. It's not a new invented mod. But it's a member. No, Capons is just Capons is just a Продолжение следует... Content Steakhouse 2.0 with almost like an STK BLT.

Uh uh you know Yeah, they're awesome looking. You know, whatever you want to call it. But we have a very strong what we do to Eugene's credit, to Grotman's credit, to Noah's credit. Those places have more cool, right? There's that nightlife element. We're going 20% less on that and 20% more on food. We think the secret to retention L LTV is just execute a food program that is so undeniable. And a little bit of that sizzle, but your stake's gotta be right, right, right. is killer chicken parm.

Yeah, you've got another bath of water. Yeah. You've gotten into this business genius. He decided to start an a uh an agency and a uh a restaurant. The two best businesses on earth.

Literally the two worst. And again, this is a great way to end it up, which is like I'm playing for what.

makes me feel good, not just maximizing the dollars. And then to your point, because that's absolutely right. And really kind of funny. And the liquor store was even worse than the two of them. Uh And then on the other side, I'm gonna turn V Friends into Pokemon, and it's gonna be one of the most valuable intellectual properties in the world in 20 years, which in an AI world will have an extraordinary amount of We'd love hanging out with you. God bless you, brother.

All right. That's it. That's the part. But if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention. And uh thanks for being part of this journey.