Quadruple OG: The Ori Spado Story

My name is Alex Alonso from Street TV a k a. Street Gangs, and I'm here with my co host James McDonald and we are what's this our second episode without Reggie Wright Jr. So we're doing the show. We're holding it down without Reggie Wright Jr. This is episode thirty three. And if you're new to the podcast, please go back and listen to a few other episodes because you'll see that a lot of our episodes are interrelated and you won't start hearing me till episode three. So don't fill

my inbox with all these questions. And if you listen to us on Apple Podcast, please leave us a rating and a review so that we continue bringing you this amazing content. You could also post a comment and a question that we will answer on the air. And if you want, you could audio a question via your cell phone and texted to us d m U s uh posted on the Facebook page and if the question is worthy,

we'll play it on the air. And if you like this podcast on Apple Podcast, give us a rating from one to five five men that you're loving the show. And for those who do not have Apple Podcast, you could listen to us on Google Play for you Samsung and Android users, Spotify and Radio dot com, or you can listen to the podcast the way my mother does

and she just asked Siri play the Gangster Chronicles. And you could also watch portions video portions of this podcast on the Digital Soapbox Network that's on YouTube videos produced by Smooth Cut Productions. And if you want to get in touch with James, you can catch him on Facebook and he is the one with the James McDonald with the Harley in his profile and you could also find them on Instagram at B I G G J thirty

six thirty six. And you can still get those death Row t shirts from him night zero four and he will deliver them to you within one of two days. And you can find me at Street Gangs dot com. Just click on the contact link and you can send me a message via email. And I'm at all social media platforms at alex Alonso one zero one that's on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. So, James, before we go into our show,

we got a special guest. But I want to just cover a couple of facts from from the last couple of weeks. I think I said that John Connolly, who was the FBI agent that was working with Rusty Boulger and Boston, was sentenced to life in prison. That is incorrect. He was sentenced to ten years in the FEDS in two thousand two. Then he got out in two thousand eleven and they um, the State of Florida picked them up for a murder and he was sent to forty

years there. The State of Florida has him scheduled for his first parole date in twenty thirty nine and he will be ninety eight years old. Yeah, what are you if he's gonna even make it to years old inside the Feds. Yeah, that's crazy. Now. About two episodes ago, James Reggie Wright Jr. Was talking about the book deal that maybe ray j has about Sugar Knight and ray j Um Sugar Knight and whatever they're gonna whatever they're doing.

But I had through out there that hey, you don't have to be on a major publishing shing, and you could be an independent writer and get on a major publishing like like um Monster Cody did and he was published on Penguin. James had said, what do you say, sinthing all that ain't no major publishing company. But Penguin Publishing was founded in nineteen thirty four. It operates out of London, England, and it is one of the biggest publishers the history of America, I mean in history of

the world. Reggie didn't Reggie didn't know. And just because Monster Cody from Matrix Gangster Crypt published his book under Penguin, don't mean it was a major And I thought that was a hell of accomplishment. Because Homeboy wrote his book in the shoe in um Pelican Bay Duty. Yeah, well, you know if he when he gave up the material, they read that book and went through it and and they re rewritten some stuff in there. Well, I don't know the specifics of it, but it was a hell

of a book. It came out of. It's called An Autobiography of a Los Angeles gang Member on Penguin. Penguin is now merged with Random House since two thousand and thirteen. So I just wanted to correct Reggie Wright Jr. On that Penguin is a major publishing house. And the last fact check, well, this ain't really a fact check. I wanted to find out what was bus stop from O F TBS real his actual job now I heard it when he was a Cairo practor. I couldn't find it out,

so anyone out there knows, please hit us up. His real name is Sammy Williams, and I couldn't figure out what is his current profession, but I believe he's in the medical field, which is amazing because he's from the Bounty Hunters. He's from aout the Nickersons. Well, I mean, good things come out of the project, for sure, Good things come out of everywhere in every neighborhood. You got

some you got some catch that got skills. And your brother was close to all them guys from o FTB right, Charlotte, where we all were, We always close to him, um everybody. Yeah, we had a good report with him. It was just the politics that that divided everybody. Okay, all right, So I just want to I got a just couple of news updates um Joshua Brown and the Joshua Brown case out in Texas. That guy Dad, he is green from Louisiana is still on the run. Remember there was three

guys wanted. They're arrested too. I was just talking to somebody that live out there and he was telling me some interesting stuff about it. And he one thing he was saying that the police had some of those guys. Well, this is one of these theories out there. The police so those guys to get at him. What happened was they said that first they thought he wouldn't gonna be a credible witness because he, you know, sale marijuana, his track record and all that. They brung all that up

in court. But he's still testified on the behalf of the guy that got killed. But then they said that he turned out to be such a good witness and whatever. You uh. The police didn't want him because of the the lawsuit that was coming from the mama, so they had to get rid of me. So, I don't you know, this is just here say what he was telling me.

That is a lot going on out there. I think there's a lot of unanswered questions even though it seemed like maybe it was just a drug deal went bad, but they're still it still smells to me, but I don't I don't know. It's too early right now to even try to speculate on whether the Dallas p D had anything to do with josh A Bound's murder. If it was just one thing. I did ask you, I said, well, do you see all of these things on the news, the three guys, this guy getting killed. Oh yeah, it

was on the news everywhere when it happened. So this situation does exist. So we were sitting there like it's impossible. Why why we ain't hearing about it? We ain't in Texas, we don't get to Texas news. So it's definitely happening. And those guys words shot and the whole nine is for real. Well hopefully, um we we're gonna stay on that story because nobody's talking about it right now, but if we learned something to new about it, you're gonna

hear about it on the Gangster chronicles. Uh did you hear about Badass from Long Beach who was briefly signed the death row records during the nineties. He died in police custody a few days ago in Riverside County. Wow, nobody knows what else. He's only for three years old. I'm gonna says peace to you, my brother. You know what I'm saying. Man, you really didn't know each other. Ranting to you, but we really didn't, you know, kicking like that and none but rist in peace. Yeah, rest

in peace too, badass from Long Beach. Um. We'll find out what happened to him in the next couple of coming days. And the last thing I want to say is Um, the East Coast Crips and the Florence Third Teams had their third face to face meeting. I believe it was either October thirty one or November one. I was out of town, so I wasn't able to attend it. But there is footage online if you go to Skip Townsend's YouTube channel, he has about two minutes of footage.

For those of you who don't believe this is true that have been questioning whether or not that the East Coast and the Florences came together, they came together again and there's actual video footage on YouTube that you can see. You see a bunch of Mexicans, about a hundred of them, Cynthien. That's the video I'm talking about Cynthia Senator Van And you know, it's it's crazy that we we put ourselves down when you're doing good things like this. You know

a lot of catches. Are they only doing this because of Donald Trump? I wouldn't give an if if it took Donald Trump to get these two neighborhoods together, then fuck it. I give a high poet Donald Trump and putting them together definitely, but we need to get them gains the Chronicles and everybody can hear this story. Yeah,

maybe everybody needs to know what's going on. I'll reach out to a little doc and see if we can get a representative from Florence thirteen and perhaps come here and just talk about this monumental truce between two gangs that have been worn for twenty years. And lastly, we gotta shout out Nori from the Drink Champs. Nori went on, he went on the podcast called No Jumper and guess who. He said it was the best podcast out right now, that was crazy. He said, The Gangster Chronicles is the

best podcast out right. The way he explained each and everybody roll and I was like, man, he compared us to the TV show um Um, the one out of Baltimore, but the Gangsters of the Police, Um the Wire. He said, the Gangster Chronicles podcast is like the TV show The Wire. I don't know, but that's a hell of a compliment. Damn show is. And and it had me choked up because I'm like, I'm not into it. I don't look at the and I'm bullshitt y'all not I don't look

at the comments. I don't look at none of these bodios. I don't do none of it. I come in here and after the show is over, I go home and I'm waiting on another week. I don't fare attention to it. So I got people coming to me, coming up to me at the stores that to swap me, uh, pull up on the side of me and take a double take and say, oh you guys chronic. It is overwhelming

to me. I mean, I didn't went from here all the way to hear where I'm at now and and being recognized, Man, you helped me this, You helped me that, you helped me through a hard time on this and and we appreciate all y'all. We appreciate all y'all I appreciate y'all from the bottom of my heart. Um, I never thought I would be in a position where I'm at now. He even offered us distribution in case we needed it, that's how much he loved the show. But

I've known Nori man. I think i've know Norith about twelve years now, and he's always been a good guy. Whenever he comes to l A, when if he's not too busy, he hits me up. I was surprised that he shot. I didn't even know Nori. I haven't talked to Nori since we've been doing this podcast, so I was surprised that he even you know, because he got his own podcast, the Drink Champs, and that is one

of the top podcasts and the music category. So I know he's busy with doing his podcast, but he's listening to us. I just want a guy. I thought it was uh noring, somebody ship man, get my boys a shout out. I'm like, man, it's just dude, for real. He on there and and it was it was some else or something else, all right, So we got a special guest today. This guy is born in New York, came out to l A, has a career and entertainment,

but he is tangentially linked to organized crime. He just came out with a book called The Accidental Gangster Rii Spado. But before we go into a conversation with Rii Spado, let's play this clip. I equate a good gang shirt up there with a doctor or a good lawyer. There's good gangers, are bad answers. You know, it's like anything else in life and any other segment of life. But being a true gang shirt, most people would thinking maybe

I'm a little mentally, maybe press I am. But to be a true gang shirt you have to be in telling you you know, if you mentioned a few guys that I knew, and what's separation those guys my last Frank and Sello tell Michel Sunday Clinch, Jimmy Toschi, Jimmy Toschi. Even though there was a pretty time he couldn't you know, right, but they were still smarting. There was still on TV right now, The Great Do Yes, it seems like they're show kind of mirrors of life a whole look in

a way. Yes, because when I came down to the HollyHood, I knew Dino Dealer right there, Roll sur being I know if anybody knows who Dino Dealer Runt was. But at that time, back in the day, he was the biggest lender, brenda producer round and did King Kong across a hundred and thirty forest three tons of movies. I became close with them. He was he came from Italy and they were involved with Carlo Ponti over there in the film business, and he was very successful. And I

became friends. And the next day you know, there's a problem there, a problem there. And then I went on. I talked to people, they were reading the problems. Like just sitting down with people, I could trib you my experiences a salesman of someone he turned for understanding people and being able to sit down and take care of the problem. So you were what they were called, the fixer. I was knownally the Hollywood fixer. How much show you

think they broke month? I only think maybe somebody saw off picked up something and the writers wants the writer to get something. He changed it all for totally. He had a writer and wanted the doors for TV pilot about me. I mean I read that and you know who the hell he was talking about. There was no of someone's at all. I think the writer probably agreement and the reality was open to even think they would

agree the breaking. But there's a whole another situation, and we could talk three years of out writers and how but everything's too rich for it. Seems like all my life, people always part of me as a gangster. But for many years I was a successful a churchman and the leading agent for the potential in Church company. And then I had my own agency where I serviced Automo bill dealers with a training for a Brahm and where I saw the credit life and accident and health insurch That

became my first indictment. A guy that I took that never made more than thirty tho dollars a year, I brought him in a gentleman. I can't call him a gentleman, but he was making over a hundred grand year with me. Uh, my company was growing very quickly. I was going very well, and he became very jealous. He found out about a deal that I had with the in Church company where I was allowed to use the premium to grow my business.

And then he tried to say that you know that I was friends with Sonny Francais Maya Lansky and others, which showed he was trying to get me into tape conversations. Anyway, that became my first indictment, and I was facing fifty five years in prison, and it was my first case. I ended up getting five years probation. But once I had that fewn he was like, you know, and I became who I was. I left there, I went to San Francisco, and I became very well known in San

Francisco in a very short period of time. I already known Sonny Franchise, all right, I knew my Orlanski, and through life I got the net other well known gangsters. That's all in my book. Carlo Marcello Russell Buffalino's who Joe Pesci plays in a new film The Irishman. Yeah, so I had yeah, hell of a life. Do you have some feelings here you? For example, well, Michael Harris, yeah, Harrio? How long that him was? I don't know if even the guy know who Danny Sinton was, but then he

was the first guy that produced Bob Marley. Uh. Danny was big in the music business. And when Danny was in Los Angeles, I was a guy who took care of Danny and he probably Yeah. When he was in New York, it was joe Piney and when he was in London, it was my snake, Joey Pile. Danny knew how to work the system really good and he was always protected. But he came here, and before he came here,

he stopped in New York. He was with White Cleft, and through White Cleft he met Asian Jack and they came out here with and wanted me to handle problem was shog Knight. Lydia was so underver the little issue is wanted me to talked to Show and uh I met Lydia Asian Jack. Asian Jack ended up thinking on my couch for a year, so I found out who he really was. But they went back and forth and every time that he was here, she got Michael long

At help. But there was not a need for me at that situation be to sit down with Show, because I really didn't know who was right who is wrong in the situation, and when Michael being in prison and his wife an thanks for him, it was not a proper situation for me to get involved in. Patian Jack. He's a good talker's a good looking boy. He was fast, fast with a woman. We're a hustler. He he was getting money from White Club, John and Jerry wonder Urb and all these people. It's up on my couch and

grow my son's cart. For a year. Never offered to put up a five cents. And then I found out the truth about Asian. What happened. What he wanted. There's something in the music business. He wanted me to be involved, and i'mby donst to me. He was going around Los Angeles stone everybody. He was with me, so that was sort of like a guarantee on him. When he was

mentioning mining, white Cliffe and I became front. White Cloth called me and it was round Christmas time and he was the friends when Naomi Campbell and they only was being stalked by this guy out Long Island. I think this was somewhere that in nineties. Boy called Naomi boy I was going. She happened to be having a Christmas party. Bro I went there. She had valet party and all that they're told the guys leave my car air. I went in and they only brought me into her office.

We talked. She gave me the information that I needed. I should think g go, she should have stay at the party. You know a lot of people. I shouldn't really have to run any ship, I shaid, I just walked through and say, oh so, I walked through the room where the party was and shut aloud to a few people. A few late days later, I'm sitting in my share at home, Jack sitting on his couch. I

lived over on his wall dry every the time. I found the guys that dressing Long Island, and they went to his home and the long Guyland, and when they got there, if I'm on the telephone, and I told him exactly that I did not want him to even think about the only Campbell. He wasn't the emailer, he wasn't the color. He wasn't to look at it. He's not the telephone. I should know. I should see those fool guys in front of you right now, he said, yeah,

should there being very nice right now, I should. If you ever see them again, that would be the last face that you're everybody see. Jay gets up and go to my dining room table because Naomi, he says he took care of it. He was just trying to he was from what I want to find out. Everybody wanted to say that what's up. Jack took credit for killings that other people did well. So pretty much what you've seen Jack, That's what I'm saying, not in my book.

Like I said, he was a fast doctor, good looking guy, and he hustled. Everybody never worked with David. I made a legitimate dollar. Not that I'm all that pole here that thou But if we make money together or I'm taking care of you, you made some money, you're gonna come over and say, here, do the right thing. But I had an overstock of what they called me, all the DVDs, the CDs from Universal. So my mate Joey Poylo,

the bossa London At, a guy named Ron Winters. Ryan was big into music business and Ryan with a Canivan, son of a bitch. He was good at He was a good guy. He said he wanted to buy him when it came to a price. And then he told me he's wired the money to me. I give him my banking and I'd be their way on my bank. On my bank one called Ron. He'd actually give me a number that he transferred. Nobody can find a number

that he come up. While I had to go through the Bank of Landa for one back to another bank by trying he gets there, and then I founally found out he was bullshitting, and then through somebody in the movie industry, because when Ron would come to town, he would never tell anybody where he was staying, and he never checked in on your real name, so you could find a guy. My guy said he had a meeting with this guy, rond Winters at the Beverly Wilsters and

what I shouldn't want to go water? And I went, and I was at the bar, and he's promised that he would come downars and get me. I was literally gonna hang this fucking guy out the window. Unbeknown to me, shouldn't nice. They're having a meeting with him. The other guy in the movie industry tells Shug about me that I'm waiting down there at the park. The Shug came down and that's how we met, and he asked me not to do anything. He says, we'll make money. Are

you sure you won't make money somewhere though? He said, But I got under going with the guy. I don't want to mess that up, he said, please. I said, okay, no, And then it came and I started going to Shug's office when he was over here on Busher and Sampa's that day. And we always show. I always saw it the four Sea Dolls every night. He likes to be there rightfully every night as he was. And then it came down to Ron, which has happened to be his

distributor in anyland. But Ron was distributing death roll all over Europe mhm, and he wasn't paying shure. So show came to me, my mace. We got the first million. Like when we got the first million, idea was that I would do a September cent, but we wanted to handle it every month. Whatever was your guy. I think he got violated. He was in prison. I got the million dollars. It was a way till he was account

I can't remember. A girl and a guy and should called his lawyer from prison and had his lawyer transferred ten dollars in my out I mean underground like that. It was there in the next day. Show was always a gentleman, and I gotta say it always did the right thing. Does the Marsta deal with the Crypts of Blues? And yes I did. You got a lot of respect from them, and they got every respect you're gonna remember something about the time, and particularly us guys from New York.

I never knew about fucking prejudicism racial and you know, I never knew about this ship that's part of in New York. I mean, you know, we have black guy who would just but what I was friends with him, all right, We never had none of that stuff. What would be the biggest advice you would give to leaders and crips of blues if you could teach your menut in a better way of life, teach your man with it.

And I know for a fact I had a comment Mike, you try to tell his boy what to do with the money, how to save it, how to invest it, because living this kind of life, you're eventually gonna die and over to jail. And if you're fortunate to make it through both of those, do you have any money or Svike? Alrighty? That was Ori Spado and we got him live in the studio. So Ari, The first thing I want to ask you, what what compelled you to want to write a book about all these crazy experiences

that you've had in your life. I ain't been an avid reader all my life, Even to this day, I read every night before I go to bed, and while I was in prison, I was reading. I read over three hundred books in prison, and it was just something that in my head and which I'm normally good at formulate things in my mind, whether it's going to be a robbery or a takedown or whatever I want to do. But this became an idea. And when I would up the yard, I came up with the name the Accidental Gangster.

That's a great title. And not thinking that I'm ever going to write a book, I mean, I just never thought of it. But when I got out of prison, there were a lot of guys who came to me in the entertainment, but I wanted to do reality show with me knowing this town is I know what most people are bullshitter And my lawyer is a gentleman named George Hams, one of the most prestigious entertainment law firms.

George and I we always get together once a month or whatever, the Four Seasons or the Peninsula or someplay. And I'm telling George about it, and George looks at me. He said, already I know your story. He says, write a book. Find a writer to help you, he says, And we'll get a movie, though, is it hard for you to find some? So now I know a lot of scriptwriters being here in Hollywood, I don't know any

book writers. As a difference right between writing a book and writing a script totally totally different, and one writer at another don't wrote book. I just said down one day because here I went, I was still on paper. I'm not allowed to go to certain places and all this here and I wasn't looking going to get violator for some stupid ship. So I said it down in my computer and I started writing. I think maybe I was about a third of the way into the book,

and I just kept doing it. Talking to my cousin back e and he said, there's somebody here wants to say hello to you. Guy. His name was Tom Burt Tom, and I haven't seen him since high school and we're bringing each other today. And he said, already you know Dennis Griffin, He said, do you remember him? I said yeah. He said, he's a writer. He's living in a lot his vedeas he's writing a lot of gangster books. I should get the hell lot here through Dennis. We have

a Wild Blue Press, which is a publishing company. They write true crime and they do quite a bit of it, and they do a good job. But you didn't. You didn't spend time with Dennis, so he didn't. He did personally know your story. Last time you've seen him was in the military. And the funny thing was, Dennis was a cop in upstate New York, Monroe County or some place I can't remember. I didn't see Dunnis again until two months ago. My granddaughter graduated and I was back

in New York and Dunnis that i't met again. So your cousin told Dennis, I got this incredible story that you probably want to write. Google Dennis and he had his email on this thing. He emailed him and he called me. First two people ever read the manuscript happened to be Nick Pileggie, who wrote Good Fellows, Casino American Gangster So Suge Knight and death Row Records in your book at all? Do you cover that? Do you talk about that in your book? Yes? I do now, James,

you guys never met before. Hum never met. He was on I guess the same side of business, but he was going a little further and deeper than where we was going out to get the money. As you heard him say, you wouldn't collect did a million dollars for it in England? Right there there was my people in London.

How do you you come up with the name accidental gangster? Well, as I walked the yard, a lampol i came up because here I was a Slatto boy in state in New York, and I'm thinking about all the guys that I met. You know, you watched and know all these gangster and stuff, and you see all these people and I actually met them. I had their phone number at one time. I was able to call them. These are bosters throughout the country and how's this something like that?

And most of the books you read is about the guy. He was born in benson her in Brooklyn, and his father was in it, his uncles were in it, so he became in it. It was quite a process. So it took a lot out of me. I mean just I mean being against you know, when you were against gainst a boy nature not about choice. You you wasn't taught how to be against. You wasn't shown this is the way a gangster should be. You knew exactly what a gangst there was and how you live. So there's

nothing accidental about you? You see what I'm saying. Well, that's why I leave it up to the readers read my book, The Accidental Gang. They can make the decision. Was it accidental or accidentally on purpose? I said, by nature, not by choice. That's what I wouldn't name it, because I mean I wasn't forced into it. I actually walked into this part of life and I became what I've seen and what I felt in my heart. This is what I want to do. That's what you wanted if

you walk into it open arms. Did nobody push you into being who you are? Nobody pushed me, right, and I guess there never a lot of people to push me in anything exactly. Well, in the audio clip that we just heard, basically you were a Hollywood fixer and I was as curious. Um in your book, do you talk about the specific entertainers that you helped and can you give us maybe a little snippet of a of a person that you know needed to call on your services.

Some of my friends were, and you know, I had to read my book to find out, but I do. Frank Sinatra, I know Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr. I knew him all and uh and Cheryl others and through Dina de Laurentis, Uh, Ralph Serpi, Peter Falk, Colombo, Colombo. But I met him when he was doing the Brick Show in Boston. Now, for the people who don't know who Dino de Laurentis is, this is a guy that

was associated with so many great movies during the nineteen seventies. Um. He did the Velachi Papers, which is the first mafia guy to ever become a snitch. Um. During the nineteen sixties, he also did the movie Serproco, which was the New York p D officer that decided he wanted to turn in all his corrupt all the corrupt officers that were working in NYPD, and they end up trying to kill him. Uh. And he did the movie about that, Serproco. He also did a death Wish with John James Bronson h nine

teen seventy three. Um, So this is a guy I'm sorry, Charles Bronson. This is a guy who he was a heavyweight during the seventies. He was he was like the guy could pull money from this track. So how did you meet How did you meet him? Because Dino de Laurentis that that guy has a story to tell in terms of all the films that he made and and he did. He did some gangster movies too, did a lot of gangster movies. Uh, he left all right, Oh, there's a whole bunch I left out. Um. He also

did Conan the Barbarian Street with Anthony right here. Yeah, that's that's in the eighties, near the end of his career. No, Conan the Barbarian. Yeah, that's near the end there. We say that in the beginning they were doing a film in New York. There was the film like Matt yeah fourth, I think I got it right, You're right street with Anthony one right, Uh, And you know they went in this city this went before how it would really be

come Hollywood, Will you read that film? And they got other pre myths to uh film from the city, and they weren't herd setting things up when some guys went towards that you can't film her because they didn't have the proper permission, which was from the boys. And then through my friend Frank Russell, they went they am and that's how we got involved and uh became friends after that there. So back then, let's say you had to have your hand in the majority of a lot of

things that was going on in the city. So with nobody gonna eat unless you ate. So this is what this is gonna be, and there's no compromise. This is what it is if not get out of you understandable, every got he's got to be shown a little bit of lover exactly. And see back in the days, that's a good thing because you didn't have one person sitting on the block feeling his belly and and looking at

every looking down at everybody else. Y'all made sure that everybody got something out to deal, whether it was irrationally correct there and they changed somewhere and exactly when or how you know? I have a saying jails are full of people because they're greedy or jealous. You've been in prison, all right. Most of the people that were greedy or jealous got jealous, he killed somebody, whatever occasion. But greed is the main factor. And the bosses keeping all the money.

Other guys are not making money, and what happened. They try to say that they don't want nobody deal drugs there, so saying they don't like any of the guys trafficking narcotics because it brings on unnecessary law enforcement attention. But now I want that money. At the time, I wasn't physically there, but you know, you air of a gentleman, probably one of the most respective guys around, Carlo Gambi. Do you never saw that guy going to president. You

never saw the cameras on him all the time. Quiet guy. But he made a promise that the that these guys would not deal drug. I heard that. I can't totest the word. I wasn't there. But at the same time, there's an expectation for all these captains to produce a certain amount of money every month. Yeah, but you know there's so many other ways shooting, construction business, the union, the colding district. Uh, there's so many other ways to

making money. Prostitution, gambling, which is the Vegas and that was a normal but you know, when the boss had taken all the money and you got all the captives and the other people, they want their podcasts full too, and so they people started yelling drug and what's that produced? Performance to to to know that and then to know that the that the big man is eating and really don't want to feed me in the right way, especially

the things that I do. What what I bring to the table, it's worth more than anything, so I should be taken care of. Absolutely. So at what point do you feel like, Okay, I'm not getting taken care of? Uh? Do that put you in a position where you can walk away and do your own thing or you actually stuck in a situation. I think you're stuck there, and you're stuck in a situation and now you've got to fend for yourself. I can get into a deep conversation with you on this ere Uh you know, we boy

could discuss our personal thoughts. Yeah, we do that about the life, but we could do that some other time. Yeah, yeah, we can. What what I'm what I'm trying to say is, without making it sound like a interview, my whole thing is, you know, we all make choices. We all have choices, and and if this is what I choose to do, I'm gonna get it while I'm getting it, and I'm

gonna make sure I get it. Yeah, but at the same time trying to get it, you can lose, you know what I'm saying, putting your hands in somebody else's pocket without differmission, you got to deal with the consequences. So the way you live, the way y'all live your life a posted the way we live our life is totally different. Y'all have certain rules that y'all go by, and our rules don't apply to the way y'all y'all

put y'all rules. Now, you know what I'm saying. So it was basically the same thing, but with different with a different understanding, you know what I'm saying. So it's pretty easier for us to play those trick games. It's pretty hard if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar. The consequences is deep, but there are a couple of exceptions though. Michael Franz Easy, Sonny's son, actually walked away from the life, and so did John Gotti Jr. Kind of walked away from the life with

without anything happening to them. Would you disagree? And those are two guys that were pretty deep into it, John Gotti Jr. Being in the Gambino crime family and Sonny France sees um Michael friends Easy being one of the top one of the top earners during the seventies. You read that book, you're gonna learn a lot about Michael franchise and okay. Uh, Michael is a very intelligent guy. There's no question about that. There. Uh, you made a lot of money. He is Sonny steps right. But Sonny

did adopt him legally. When Sonny at his wife Tina, her name was Christina, a couple of my uncle. Michael was a year and a half, two years old at that time when she married Sonny. Uh. Sonny's other son actually got two families. He got Carmen, Rosemary, and Lorraine from his first marriage. They I want to say my age, but I think they're all older than I am, and

they're all regular citizens, good people. And then when he married Christine and Michael was step son, he had then his son Johnny, and he had a daughter Tina, and the youngest daughter, Gia. And I knew all these kids when they were yi. Gia ended up dying from an overdose at a hotel and Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I think it was Johnny became an informant on our case against his father, against me and everybody else. Johnny was the son against his own father. Johnny was a spitting him

the just sunny. Johnny was a drug addict. It's surprising. I just got word two days ago that he's trying to get a movie made and the gentleman's named that I mentioned earlier who went reduced being the Norman, Supposedly he's trying to do it. I know if it's ever happened, but the would you would you agree though, that Michael and John Jr. Were able to walk away from that life though, which is kind of an exception to the rule,

because who their fathers was. Well, maybe that has something to do with it, because they were both the sons of high ranking Michael walked away and it was an awful long time ago, walked away with a lot of money. And I wasn't in the room. It's only what I hear of, but he was. I don't want to say something that might be wrong, but you know a lot

of people were paid off from heavy money. Well, you know, the money is the name of the game today, all right where it was before where before you got your button, before you gotten uh, you had to do this year, you had to go and do work. Okay, we no longer.

How much money can you bring it? Yeah? Well, you know, Michael Francis, he said in a recent interview that he's got a book out and He does still get nervous sometimes because when he goes to book signings, you never know who's gonna be there, and you never know if it's somebody that's still from the life that say, hey, I'm uh, that's still hating on him. But the question is it still like that today? Is the market is still active as like it was back then? They're still

things changed. A lot of the Italians from Sicily and other uh from Italy are running some of the families in New York today. Uh, they're keeping it low key. Are they as powerful as they work? No way? No way. The FBI with the Rico whack. Just now that they're there, you should be an FBI unit for every family, every family constantly, twenty four hours of the day. It's no longer the kids. They get about two two two squads down for the whole five family they are. Plus you

got the family in Jersey and Pennsylvania. Is there one upstate? Is there an upstate family Buffalo? Yeah, So it's not like it used to be in terms of the FBI monitoring them, you know, But then again, in the FBI, I don't have to leave the officer they get today. It's easy all right. So, man, there's so many things that I wanted to have a conversation with you about. Maybe we can start off with Haitian Jack, like you

actually socialized and kicked it and hung out with Haitian Jack. Yes, they did it, unfortunately, and I don't know if you knew at the time, but he's the primary person behind tupocket and shot the first time in four I believe in New York where he survived and actually on the rape of that girl went away correct with Haitian Jack. There was another boy there who proffered against me. Jamaican boy named Ricky was there, and it is believed that

Park never even raped this girl. It was those other guys. Yeah, but they were parks friends, so Park had the name. So Park, you're getting charged and that's that's why he got shot by them because he remember he went on TV and said, if you guys are gonna arrest me, then you gotta arrest everybody that was there. And then that's when um, Haitian Jack and Jimmy Henchman said, man, we gotta shoot this dude. But you actually knew him

when he came to Los Angeles. By this time, you you living in l A. I'm living in Los Angeles and Danny shows up at my door from New York because he stopped in New York from London before he came in. Now you talked about Danny Simms. Yeah, okay, wait before we're talking about be bothered about Haitian Jack. Danny Simms is the dude that basically discovered Bob Marley and what nineteen sixties, seven sixty eight? Um, and you knew him? Okay, so you met Haitian Jack. Dude, dude,

Annie Sims? Talk about how did you meet Danny Simpson? First? I actually met Danny Sims through my friend Joey Pile out of London. Joey Poe was the boss over there. Began with Ronnie Reggie Cray. Joey was a gentleman and I thought like we'd become him and Danny had the returner to Mac Morrison. I got a number here. Uh, what's his first name? Morrison? What does his first name? I'll look it up, Mark Morrison. I just talked to

him the other day and I forgot his name. Uh. And Mark was a hotta back a no day and he had they had a deal with Warner Brothers and they wanted me to take care of him while he came. He was here in Los Angeles, h make sure we got to the studios, make sure he did what he strove for. So my son and I went over there and we took care of Mark while I was here, and Joy and I became very close through the years, and then Danny was moving back to Los Angeles. I

met Danny. Goddamnit, I've known Danny for so long I forget. So did you know Danny before he hooked up with Bob Marley? No, I didn't know him that, okay, because that was around sixty eight, So you met him after sixty eight. I did the World of Red Gay featuring Bob Marley exhibit at the Queen Mary, and I gotta be honest with you. I didn't even know who to how Bob Marley was until Danny introduced me to Roger Steffen in Silver Lake, who has got a great collection

in his home of Bob Marley. My Morbilia, which we got HIRER. Curator, cost over half a million dollar just to get it up and put it for people to come to you with the Queen Mary. But Danny, Danny was a smart guy, so was Danny was Haitian. Jack trying to get into the music business through Danny Sims because he knew Danny Simms. Well, Danny wanted to do something White Cliff he brought I know if Jack was in trouble or something. But Jack was going back, didn't

want to go back to New York. And I didn't know that Jack was a snitch at that time. Krupac was the first one I think that came out with it, and nobody would really believe in two back he came out with it a song, correct. I believe he did say something about him and I answered, you Jack to a lot of people sleeping out of my car. And but he's on the phone every day talking to people, and people are sending their money, not working, and he's

going out and buy nice coldest and that. And but then eventually two other people out of Brooklyn and back in New York. Uh, they called me Jack were not who he proclaimed. He was taking credit with somebody else. Because when you tell me do you kill people and how many people you killed? Then I know you killed nobody. Jack, all right, all right, why would you tell me? All right,

that's the dumbest thing. But he did it and people became fearful of him from it, and the guys on a say Angels were heads up and a little bit quicker. I guess that the guy's back East. And from my understanding, Jack had been a snitch for a long time working for the FBI where he got deporting Republic. He got deported and he isn't the Dominican Republic. That song that you were talking about um is called against all Odds a Boy Tupac and the line is a real live

tale about a snitch name Haitian Jack, you know. And I didn't know he was a snitch. And then after they finally got rid of him, everything, all the guys were named big guy went in the box. He was in the music business. I can't forget. I'm forgive me for with names. But through my life we're not talking about no, not Sug, but a lot of other people. I never introduced the shark. I know. We we had a media one day at the fourth season. That's when I first met Mike Concepts you and uh really like

like a real gentleman guy. But everybody called me afterwards, why didn't I tell them Jack was just night? I should because they didn't know to who years was that when he came to Los Angeles and was, uh, I guess leaping on your couch for for a while. Had to be two thousand, maybe somewhere around there. He was sleeping on my couch for a year. Then after a year he got in an apartment upstairs in the same building. I don't know who gave him the money, acon somebody

getting the money, and he got an apartment upstairs. And then he rapped some Mexicans and he got a score on I don't know how many pounds it was. It was a big score, and he brought it the Ohio I know, the guy who sold the form in a while, and Jack came back with all the cash. And I lived on swall over here. Actually sure used to be on Swallow all the time too, and walk away from me, you remember, and my patio door. It was a whole lot of my apartment, which I always keep him walking

because I smoked. And Jack came back from Ohio and let me Ricky. And Ricky said, you're gonna go take care of the old man. He said, fuck no, I'm not going to give him a nickel. I heard that, and Ricky came around and says, Rick, I already heard it, and then I called Jack. I said, you get upstairs, put my son's key under the fucking door. You're not to dry that car, I said. And I want you out of this fucking building by tomorrow. I should remember something.

You're not a gangster, I am. You told him that, Yeah, I said, I want you out next morning. He had you all he moved out. That's when he moved in the building in Century City. So you gave him a pass. I would have did someth choying for even saying something like that. I mean, after you're taking care of him, take care of him. He's a no good motherfucker. And I don't care if that's on the air. I don't see it too. He's a no good motherfucker. I mean,

but I mean just living that life. Man, how do you feel now that that you're not really you're not active as you were, but you still consider the gamester, How do you feel by just just living a normal life, just comfortable, just you know, I'm gonna be seventy five years old, but in my mind, I think I'm still twenty one. I think we're all gonna be like that there no matter who we are. Okay, we all think we're young. And do I miss that fast cash? Yeah?

And you know I don't have the availability of things, thank god. I mean I have money every month. I'm gonna pay my rampaying my bills, and uh, I don't have the extra money to be going out and spending a thousand dollars a night. That's the four season and the peninsula or something. You know, those are the days. But back in the day I had guys around. I need a fifty grant. I have bookies around. I don't

even know who's a bookie anymore. Is there anything you would change if you can go back, if you can go back in time, is there anything that you would change? Yes, I would rather been born in the twenties, all right, and being really active in the thirties. Okay, that was my time. You was ahead of your time. I was too late. Well, you would have been coming up in the bootleg era then that's right. That was the time

to becoming become involved. That's the day. Story were the days alcohol was illegal throughout the whole third I believe. So you were born with like in the mid forties after World War two, after World War tours. Born nineteen Yeah, but you see, if I wanted to go back, I go back to before I was born nineteen forty four. Yeah, my mom was just turned seventy five. Um, on the seventh of this month. I was just at the funeral, I meany, Yeah, she rested in peace. Now one year?

Right when one year Thanksgiving to be the one should be one year of her death? Rest in peace of Mahalia Thanksgiving. So your mom was born in what year? Forty four? You were born? My father was born in forty My mom and dad were both born in forty Well, my father passed in fifteen, two thousand and fifteen, and my mom is about to be eighty. And uh, mother was born the way in November? Was she born? She

was born in November. She past Thanksgiving terrible time. But when she was a Sangitarian, Yeah, yeah, she was crazy. Do you born in November December? Yeah? Well? Um, and let's talk about this indictment because there's so many things. I want to make sure we talked about this because in two thousand eight you was indicted in that whole um what was that the Colombo the Colombo family indictment? Right,

So I read through the superseding indictment. There's all these allegations of this guy killed this dude, this dude killed that dude. But then I'm looking, Okay, I want to know what or Spado did. And it doesn't say you were involving any of these things that these other um Colombo members were doing. Correct, So what exactly why were

you indicted then? In nineteen nineties seven, and that FBI Asian happened to be shame that BI agent that got Wedey Bulger John Connolly, Oh, oh, you're talking about the one one out here in Los Angele, which was like a gift to him. Anyway, he was on the elite. A BI organized prank days for us. They approachriated, try to get me to become an informant. I refused, but I grabbed them for money the game of fucking tape one day open. I got five thousand dollars for the

old first show. Honest, your god, he and my fucking live everyone one day said, because then I got an attorney, I said, not gonna have for him. Sure, he said, you got anything in our will turn himself in. But he said, I will see today you are chained shackled put on con there and brought the Brooklyn over ninety seven in two thousand and eight. He made that a reality become it gonna be very honest with you by all means, how did they get me on that indictment?

Two predicate good act is all you need on a reco indictment, And they came up with two predict good act. One was a conspiracy to distribute cocaine? How did that come? Now? I'm gonna be honest with you, and I'll tell you, uh insent in my book, I used to have four the fifty pounds, but we've flown it in New York every two weeks. I had airports, I had a pilot, I had everything like boom boom boom, nice cocaine. I really never involved him, but it was a Germaican boy

named Ricky Lee, and I took care of Ricky. Rickie was a good boy, made a ton of fucking money and he was signing product from here to Brooklyn and North Carolina. Had a big home up in Hollywood Hill. I was godfather to his daughter. And Rickie always came back and you know, gave me some loving, you know what I mean? He got arrested. He was supposed to stop the business. His wife went away and the urge.

So he got ahold of five hundred pounds some cocaine and a gun, and he shipped at the North Carolina and somebody where at the shipping place they tracked it. He got arrested. I was lawyering him off. He was at downtown n DC here or lawyering him up. He had ships several a half a million dollars worth a cocaine. I was on the streets in Brooklyn and his wife came over with the mexicanst for what happened to know him boat. And in the meantime, Sonny Frank j sent

Guy Ftato while to meet with me. Guy Ftato was a guy to Sonny was Grooman was going with his main guy. He's row for was Sonny the Underboston family at the time. And you know, Sonny endorses the guy. The guy had been wired right from the first fucking moment. Sonny had no clue. Right, Sunny had no clue even though he was told he's still I mean. This guy was an FBI was in informant for the d A before he went to the FBI. When the d A

was through with him. He got over with Sunny. Thus the five hundred of Semite tapes, and Sonny was on most of them, which was not good. And you were only only living. I was on eleven and he sit on my couch. And the guys who owed the money to Ricky on the streets, they knew who man who I was, picked up the phone and they had a hundred grad already. They weren't running dodging what the probable was was. Ricky thought, I'm gonna send them. I forgot how many keel it was, but I'm gonna side of that.

There was so many money back. But he didn't realize that these guys were converted the critical game, so he was taking the longer the convert it get the money to send back. So they already had a hundred thousand dollars ready. And there's guy. I could have somebody figure that up tonight. It's great. We got the guy. I

don't have to make no call, no nothing. So he has somebody pick up the first one your ground, and then he starts talking to the Mexican that he wants fifty kilo he's at me and or fifty kills every two weeks. I got the car, nobody the van will ship it back to New York and all the money we're gonna make. And then when he's back to New York, he's sucking to Michael, who was Sonny's nephew, who was acting captain of the Colombo family. I never had any

interaction with Michael. Now guy Fitto talking to Michael about all the money we're going to make with Ori because we're bringing fifty kilos, we're paying twelve thousand, he's gonna sell it for twenty eight. We're gonna make all this money every couple of weeks, right, is that Michael cut Potto? Yeah, okay, boy, you're good. That's that's that's a that's our special weapon. So no, Michael never called me, asked me about it. Nobody. So here's Michael thinking we're doing this deal or he's

putting it together. Of course Michael was out here. He saw it. He saw the restrict respect the head on the streets out there. But they deal don't happen because I'm not doing it, and these guys ain't going to give it up unless they're all half a million dollars paid. So I got you basically conspiracy. They got me for conspiracy, ReCl conspiracy. Not only that. Now Fotato starts digging it into Michael Cotta pottle that or he did the deal and fucked us. So Michael goes to Sunny. He gets

permission to wake me. So that's why Sunny France says they wanted to act. Yeah, so he ordered that he didn't or get the approval. But this is why you were in custody though, right or before before we go okay, before you guys got arrested. Before did you know that he or did you whack before you guys got arrested? You learned all of this while you're reading You're discovered in My Discovery. That's crazy, Hunt James, You listening to a to a tape of somebody saying, Okay, I give

you permission get rid of you. How did you feel? I mean, it's part of the game. So I knew you accepted to a certain extent because this is part of the game, you know what being a man? And I feel that I'm a man. I was piste off. Why was I piste off that because of order that there? Because it was a stupid thing. Because suddenly used to call me up and say, come on in the hand

fucking dinner. Okay, you don't call me up and asked me what the whole the story and overre If you would have called me, he would have known the FOTAO. Then we would have discovered fo an informant. But ID like we could be best friends. But if you sunk up, I can't stop this hit, so I might have to wag my best friend. So you're not gonna get a phone call. You're gonna say come on, let's take a ride,

and you're hopping the front seat. We alreadynew what's gonna happen because these two the goons in the back seat. So you want a getting way, you know, you don't understand. I've known Sonny close to fifty years now. I've learned an awful lot for Sonny. And I said on the interview with these animal the other day, these guys are smart guys, and I considered myself a smart guy. Guys will become bosses, are not scoopid, and you gotta be

having a muti function. Sonny was very smart and I was just surprised that he did that, and I was a little bit hurt. And our last words that we had before he got out, before we did our time was were sitting in the girl when he comes in. He was on bail. I couldn't get bill. I was facing fucking life with fifty kilos of cocaine. And he comes in at Bunny, I hear you're upset with me. I'm shutting down. He's standing around. The judge is over here in the world with defunded buddy. I'm not piste

off with you, I said, I'm upset. We were talking a little, just so YouTube stop talking. I got seven. It was the luckiest thing to happen to me because I got severed from that case because I was going to use that discovery at my trial. At the trial, so Sunny lawyer tried to get me, prevent me from using that discovery at the trial and try to get severed Sunny Franchise from the trial. And the judge says, not any I'm not in Sunny Franchise is not being severed.

But I read a motion, Mrs fade O Rolle, I wrote a motion that I wanted my trial was angel because this is where my peers are. I don't live in Brooklyn. Those people and not my peers, Am I correct? Usually it goes by, goes by where the crime, the alleged crime occurs as yeah, all right, well you're using the phone, so you're on the phone in Los Angeles talking to people in Brooklyn. So where's the jurisdiction both

on both sides? Yeah, both sides. So what was the result of that um that motion about moving your case to the Los Angeles? I wrote my own motion. It was a damn good motion. And the judge says, the US attorney maybe Mrs spadel should be severed. And he says, you have until noon tomorrow convinced me otherwise to be back in Neontis, or the next day we're back there, and then Judge and Mrs spadol I have to deny your motion for severance and ocation los Angeles. I got

in the transpress. I got some of it in my book. He should, but when I'm gonna do, he's just if you could explain the difference in legal terms of me. He said that that discovery you want to use could also be used against you. I got up explain this could be inculporatory or exculpriatory, which you could have. You should unconvinced. Mr Sparrow, you know what you're talking about. What do you want? I shall take the severance. So I got severed. It was a lucky day in my life.

Otherwise I still be in prison today. What happened to Guy for Tatto? He was the fife for Tatto. We were blessed because there was another faction of the Colombo family, Michael Vino and a few other guys. And he was such a bad informant. The judge Weinstein, who is the oldest living judge on the course and I think he's still in today, declare him the worst informity ever you. So now they didn't want to use him as an informant against me. They wanted to use the tapes. My

attorney said, in no way I want him. Yeah, because if you're gonna use the tapes with Guy for Tattle, you gotta bring Guy for Tattle to court so your lawyer can cross examine, right, And the U S attorney didn't want to bring the court to and uh so you Loki kind of beat the case even though they sentenced you to what I to plead guilty to a gun chach, which was a minimum mandatory right, h five years.

And on the robbery, the judge I played gud took a deal in ninety seven months to hundred ten months. I got sixty two. The judge gave me sixty days on the robbery. U s attorney was bitterness screaming, and he looked at her and he said, as far as I'm concerned, you charged Mr Spadeo twice the same crime. He said, Mr spadel my hands are tied. One gun. Judge, I had to give you sixty months, sixty two always blessed, and I got sent to Lumpo. That's crazy that um

Sunny wanted you whack now Sonny. He just got out of prison two years ago. Guess how old Sonny is. James. Sonny is the oldest Mafia member on earth. If you the old and two two we talked about once a month every couple. Was that right? You still talk to him? Wow? You talked to the guy that ordered you act. Yeah, that's incredible. Well, at some point y'all fixed that situation. Had to because somebody wouldn't be here, you know exactly.

It had to be fixed that at some points, you know, look like I told him, I don't know, you know what if I did something wrong and they gave permission and wait me, they got it right though, but make sure I did something wrong. So that means he believed, um, Michael Catapano story about you did the deal, you got the money, all this other stuff that never happened, told him that his real name wherever he went by guy. That's I mean, shouldn't that be some type of rule?

Get in here, we hold court. Let's talk about this. We can't ship normally. You have plastic on the floor. I'm saying it because I watched these movies and I see plastic on the floor, and if you step on that plastics, you know you're gonna get whacked. So killed should I say? And uh, I'm in a moment, so you know it was gonna happen. And uh, what's his name?

Joe Bessie? Yeah, when he played and they beating with the baseball back that that was a casino in Casino or Goods when it was killing him and his brother exactly, but the baseball back that was it was casino. What I'm saying is it don't matter who's who. You know, what I'm saying, you make a mistake. They don't hold court, holding courters, getting rid of the situation, the problem. So I mean that's why I said, it's totally different from our culture, our way of game banging and doing what

we're doing. I don't think their coature was game banging. There's like, uh, it's it's a better way. Come on, how did you It's not it's not it's I mean organized crime. They're organized. They're organized to the team, but a lot of times I think they're too quick to whack people because they go on perceptions, they go on rumors, and they don't get the facts too. They make mistakes.

That's what's wrong with it today. Nobody Today You've got guys who become government and informants and they're still living in the same same how same neighborhood in Brooklyn. They they don't leave, they don't go under what's like brogram No, we'll see what you have now. And there is older bosses you got you got me in that's seventy five, seventy nine years old. That's not being to do fifty years, thirty years, uh, ninety two months in the federal facility.

So uh, leave that motherfuck alone because I don't want this ship brown here. So just bring my money. It's all about the money. Now, it's all about the money. So how is money doing that? A hundred and two years old? Um him. I had to call him earlier the morning, earlier to morning my time. I gotta get him, like I called, I'm up early, anima, so I'll call him like six. So it's nine a m. There. He's just getting through with his react and he's actually moving around.

He rowed around because he's going out to lunch every day. I should what the funk you doing? I said, I should you go one more? And I do? Buddy, You know how we are gotta keep out there and gotta keep moving. And I thought we have conversations. And I just left my hands up with this guy because somebody was so many they didn't think his mind was that good. I mean, I had a conversation with him and we were talking about the politics today and he going, Buddy,

it's all in the Bible. I said, sid, let me ask you a question. When the fund, did you ever read the Bible? Let me tell you, he says. One time they put me in the hole, he said, and I read every book that they had around. Did I get my hands on He's they're no more books, and the last one was the Bible, so I read it. He buddy, he says, those old guys who wrote that Bible were smart. Bastard. Did you ever meet Carmine Persico who was the actual boss or the family who just

recently passed. I think so, because Sunny would have been Sunny was his underboss. I believed. Well back in the day, the years ago, there were here. If Carmel was away Sunday with the boss, Sunday was away, Karmen Camem became the boss. Uh what you gonna say, James, I'm actually like looking at you like, damn, you did your homework on this. Well, you know, I grew up in New York in the seventies. You know, my family's from New York. So when I was a kid, we knew about the

five families. We knew about them. And where I moved to, or where my family migrated to, was an old Italian neighborhood in East Harlem, which eventually became all Port of beacon Um. Pleasant Street was was where all the Puerto Ricans eventually moved. But there's a restaurant there that state Italian and there was no more Italians living in East Tarland. But every week that comes driving from wherever they live to come to this restaurant and it was I think

it was a fourteenth and Pleasants. Um. I think that restaurant is still there. Um. I don't remember the name of it. So yeah, I have a little understanding of all of this stuff because of just growing up in New York City. You know about the Gambino family, you know about the Colombo and the Bananos, you know about the Luke CAZy, the genovesa Is because they all spread out through all these burrows and you can't help but

learn this stuff in New York. And it's crazy to actually survive it, you know what I'm saying, Because every day is a gamble, you know what I'm saying. And I'm only saying that from my perspective watching these movies that they put out. And you know scar Face, you know, every day he woke up, it was man, I could die to day, you know what I'm saying. That's pretty much It's really not, you know, but there is the same We used to have a seen you many years ago.

You know, we used to me, there's a dinner anymore if you over you know, if you showed up one day and Peter wasn't there, you know, you don't answer Peter Rich. But if Peter ain't there to that day, you know, Peter ain't coming back. So what's your favorite movie that kind of talks about the life. Most of the movies are based on the East Coast, even though people don't know that there was a mafia family in

Los Angeles. It kind of died off when during the fifties and sixties though, when Um when the l a p D hired Um William Parker. William Parker became the chief of the l a p D. And he got rid of all of this stuff. He wasn't tolerating it. But what's your favorite movie that kind of depicts the life. That's a good question because I really don't have one. But about Bronx Tales Without Pain. Yeah, that was a good I'm sorry in that movie. Have you ever like, Okay,

I did this to your dad? This kid grows up and did come at you. I mean it's all different kind of ways. Have you ever had anybody trying to come at you because they felt you had something to do with their people? What do they love ones? No? No, I never had that. Do you remember I've been out here over fifty years? Uh, not over fifty years. I take that back a long time. Nineteen seventy I was there. Yeah, you'll read about that FBI agent in the book. I

put his name in a book. Okay. Uh. That Italian restaurant I'll talk about. It's called Rawls, Yeah, hundred fourteen and pleasant and it's still an Italian restaurant. It's big. You can buy the sauce and long pavilions real they yeah, like nine dollars. But it's not an Italian neighborhood anymore. You know, the Italians with the restaurant, the Stone tables, my wife. Yeah. So Michael Harris, real quick before we wrap up the show. You actually met Harry oh, Michael Harris?

Or didn't meet him over the phone because he was incarcerated. And do you talk about him in your book? I mentioned him? I can't remember now. In fact, wish he had a book. I could look at the induct And did you ever answer his phone calls when he used to call death Row? Michael Harris, who would take those calls? Every different people? Um? When he called everybody was instructed nonstance or that phone, because if you called on the red phone, you it was somebody, it was somebody big,

it was somebody important. So he started answering him. Then he just stopped. You just don't answer that. And that came with you know, his wife coming up there, the whole nine and all of that. So, I mean, you know what type of cash you was. So it was boy, I'm glad I did not get involved in that, yeah, because you would have had you what you probably had to get rid of him because he put you on the bullshit mission. Well no, and you know it's like I said, you know, and I said, like, you know,

I could be up. Sonny should have caught me back said at the table and discuss what happened here. And if you would have done that there, then he would discover the guy for that over an informant. Because you know, that's how you're going to read in my book. I told you about that half a million on your brand came in what Ham did? The other four hundred thousands, it's in my book, it's on my discovery. Okay, the FBI got the fucking money personally. So you guys never

really specifically talked about it you want, Sonny. He just I have a rule my father. They taught me as a young boy. Never the snitch. My sister snitched on me one time and my father gave her to spanking. Still made me go on and fade the garden, but she got the sprank. Never snitch. So he used to tell me I had to tell him everything. But he and I an't a problem. I'm not gonna go to Sunny with it because don't I'm snitching on you. That's

still being a snitch. Don't you agree, Well, conversation needs to be explained in order to get to the bottom of the situation. Well, you're in intelligent guy, I mean it really does. If not, then you can't fix the situation. And if you can't fix the situation, the only thing you gotta do that's left is to get rid of it. To think of how many guys are dead over nothing. Yeah, yeah, And then you know, it's like when the FBI set

me up and I take the FBI. But I could tell when the attorney got that phone call, he said he I called me and they said this is your last chance or else to work with him. The attorney name is Mark Mazie. He's an entertainment lawyer. Today. I said, what did they mean by that or else? He said, I don't know. I'm sorry Mark telling me you spoke to me. Tell them that. Orey said go fund yourself. And then I sat in my chair on swall and I thought, what do they mean by that or else?

And then it came to me, They're gonna go well with their informants and say that I'm a snack, I'm a wreck. You sure should? They did? Well. I beat him to the punch because Jimmy Cacchi was one of the tapes fly back to Buffalo, New York, go on record with Joe Tadaryl, who was the boss of Buffalo, because thought he was in prison. So I was in record when I was taking the FBI with a boss, so I know the route. They wanted me to keep doing it. Jimmy, so you're in trouble, Yeah, I did.

So you how close were you with Jimmy Cochi? Now he was part of the Los Angeles family, right, Jimmy was regally from Buffalo. Jimmy was the most serious guy out here in my opinion. Uh, Jimmy and I were like brothers. He was never the boss of the Los Angeles family. He was the boss to Palm Springs. Never made no money down't there, Jimmy, How you don't make any money in Palm Springs. That's where all the millionaires are, right, Jimmy. Jimmy would be at my door and a Monday moron

and on Friday he leave. We we made money, were Jimmy. We made money. We shopped it fifty fifty. That's the way I like doing things. Chapter fifty fifty. Wouldn't Jimmy have to send them back to buff to Upstate New York? What Jimmy did with their money? I don't know. Yeah, Jimmy still no. I think he passed, And I honestly think I've really one of the last people to speak to him. That I was calling him from prison. He just got home from the hospital and he was I

had to call Betty and then he die. Yeah, and that was kind of like I think Jimmy is like the last of the Los Angeles crime family, the last one on here. Right. It's pretty um. I think it's pretty non existent now that Los Angeles has uh anything going on. But you know, if there was, I ain't going near him because I never went there, the guy who don't any of us anyways, but you didn't mind.

But during that time, you didn't mind associating with guys like Jimmy and all these other people, and you knew what they were doing. And I had a close connection. Were from Buffalo, h you know, we're from the same neck of the woods in New York. People missed took us for brothers a lot of time when we were out. You know, there was a problem. You know, if I see Sonny, you tell Jimmy you're with me. Jimmy, tell Sonny you're with me. I had the issue Jimmy the

sunny I'm the one who made that injury like that. Uh. But no, Jimmy was a great guy. He eventually learned to read it write. And Jimmy was feared out here as far as these things are, he was feared. Jimmy Cocchi died on August six, two thousand eleven, at the age of eighty six. Well, a lot of these guys are up there in age like like really like, oh, I've been there. Yeah, I've been around for a long time. You know one thing, you know, it's really funny, and

I knows anything. But when I was in Brooklyn and we were in a tower over there is she like all the Italian wise guys are diabetic. H Oh that good? Uh sauce that alright? So um, before we go, I just want you to give us at least a Frank Sinatra story. I know you probably have him in your book, but just tell us something brief about Frank Sinatra. You knew the guy personally, Frank. Frank was not allowed to smoke around his wife. So in the days before they

all this bullshit was smoking. You can smoke at the bar. And you know, Frank Sinatra, I put up the money for Matteos and Westwood Boulevard. They both grew up in Hoboken. Uh maddim tail. Mattie was funny and Uh I was there every night. I said, on this side of the dining room. Frank said, in the dining room over with

the table people in his white Barbara. Well, we we said at the bar, he come over and get a cigarette, and we said at the bar, and then we were talking and have a lot of conversations about the old days. But one of the best conversations was he walked on one night, we're getting our card with the valet, and he asked the valet, what's the biggest tip you ever got? And the guys ballet says a hundred dollars. Franks, you're really so Frank gives him two hundred and he says,

who gave you the hundred? He said, you did, sir. Oh wow, that's hilarious. That's Frank always hung out with all the gangsters. Even though he was a singer, he was in the music business. He hung out with gangsters. He's from the photograph with almost all the gangsters. But you know what I noticed. This is something that that always bothered me that white gangsters can do whatever. White gangsters and white entertainers can hang out and socialize, and

no one criticized it. But when people of color who are entertainers hang out with gangsters, they point the finger at this person that you're you're a bad guy. Frank Sinatra got away with hanging out with whoever he wanted to hang out with, and had took very little stigma for that. And he broke the ratio bar vega by by bringing Sammy Davis jan And that was crazy because Sammy David Jr. Hanging with them. I wonder how the

hell he did it? Yeah, how he did it? I mean back then, you couldn't go to Vegas without being called the N word, way back then when they was when when they first came in to Vegas. So that was crazy. Sammy Davis and he was part of the Red Back Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Frank Sinatra. I grew up in the seventies, did much racial Oh yeah, where I was born in the Bronx, there was uh you had the black section, you had the Puerto Rican section, and you had the Italian section. Now I just took

my son there a couple of weeks ago. None of that exists anymore. Everything is all mixed in because we got Dominicans that moved in Jamaicans. But when I was a kid, it was all segregated, you know. So it's kind of cool that it doesn't exist anymore. Then when you was there, it was pretty much like the Bronx tales, You niggers get out of our neighborhood. Excuse my person. It was just like that. It was just like that,

especially in the seventies when I was really young. By the time you get to the eighties and nineties, are starting to change. But I remembered Webster Avenue. Uh if you cross Website Avenue, that's where all the Brothers is at. And people just say, don't you better not cross Website Avenue. You get jazz kicked a cross webs Avenue, you know, so you know it doesn't that doesn't exist anymore. But but there are still pockets in Brooklyn. See, Brooklyn got gentrified. Um,

there were parts of Brooklyn that we're still segregated. But that gentrification Park Slope is all like yuppies and white business people moved into the sections of Brooklyn that we're all exp Oh man, that's crazy Brooklyn is. And even Harlem, Harlem costs too much money to live now we developed that there. You're gonna see the same thing in a lot of Angeles. Oh, it's already happening there. Now. I

can't believe the rents in Inglewood, James. People used to move to Ingleod because, oh, I can go give me a one betroom apartment. You know, I get one bed room for six hundred in Inglewood. Now it's like two thou dollars for one bedroom apartment. And Gowood you know, but uh, or I want to thank you for coming on this edition of The Gangster Chronicles. I want to just remind everyone that your book just came out November

two THO. Yeah, yesterday, and technically yesterday. Not not only that, Alex, but we want everybody to know that this interview was different. It's certain things that we couldn't we couldn't address. It's things that we didn't want to address with this this man here because um of his book and his personal safety whatever. But good interview. We appreciate you coming here, and maybe we can just you know, get into it once. Everybody get this book and and and I need to

read it so I can have more this. You know what, I don't think. I don't even have a book yet. You ain't got a book. I don't have a book yet. I bought a book for a friend of mine is still in prison. He'll have it tomorrow. It's literally you doing any book signings or anything coming up. Uh. I'm talking with Borders. I bind the nobles over here. I don't know if the door Amazon in Century City. Uh, the mob Museum in Las Vegas wants me there for

a talk in a book signing. I spoke with gentleman there. I said the end of January or February. So when you do get when you do get the schedule, let us know and we can let everybody else will let you know. That will work. And the book is available online at Amazon. It's also on Bars and Noble, The Accidental gang Story. They can go to my website w w W dot the Accidental Gangster dot com, and they can find me on Instagram at the Accidental Gangster dot com.

All righty, that's or Spado the Accidental Gangster dot com, and also on Instagram at the Accidental Gangster. And his book. I saw his book already available online. It just came out yesterday, The Accidental Gangster. Go out there and get it. I'm gonna go get it as soon as possible, read it, and then I'm I want to have another conversation with you after I read the book. I'd be happy to come back. And I want to just thank everybody for

listening to another episode of The Gangster Chronicles. Don't forget. You can hit James McDonald up on his Facebook page or his Instagram. You can hit me up at alex Alonzo one zero one on all social media platforms. Don't forget. He's still got those Death Row T shirts and uh, that's it. We're out. We're out, we're out. See y'all next week. This has been a digital showbutch network production.