EP 127: The Dave Mays EP: The Source founder tells all!

m c A. Bick James and Bix Fields from the streets. Hello, Welcome to the Gangster Chronicles podcast, the production of My Heart Radio and Black Effect Podcast Network. Make sure you download the i Heart app and subscribe to The Gangster Chronicles. For my Apple users, hit the Purple Michael your front screen, subscribe to the gainst the Chronicles and leave a five star rate in the comment. We like to welcome in.

You went to another episode against the Chronicles podcast and I'm with my dogs Jill, And you know, back in the nineties, the Source was a real pivotal magazine. It was Motherfucker's getting record deals off out of there. If you got putting an unsigned height, it was on you was only cracking. You was on your way and I remember, man, you know, as a dude coming up in the business back then, that was our goal to try to get motherfucker's up in. Everybody's goal as a rapper was getting

the Source magazine. And to day, man, we got the founder of the Source magazine up here, man, Mr Dave Maze Man was cracking. Man. Everything's good man, I'm really happy to be here with you guys. Man, Man, we got a whole bunch of stuff to talk to you about. Brother, It's a whole bunch of stuff, man. First off, Man, I'd like to start with the basics all the time, because you see these interviews sometimes, Man, if people don't ask the most basic quations, I'm like, why are you

even asking this? How did you come up with the Source magazine? Man? What was on your mind when you thought of it? Was it like a vision you had? I mean, because rap was kind of rap was kind of early right then, you know what I'm saying. With the publications and everything, so you know what made you wanna get interested in that? Well, I guess I should

tell like the full back story. Basically, it starts with me just growing up in d C. I'm born and raised at d C. UM just you know, going through the public schools, just got exposed to the you know, the music and the culture of the city at a young age. And I fell in love with a d C as you guys know is you know, go Go was really, you know, the dominant music in the eighties there.

So I was heavily into Go Go. I did hear, you know, a lot of hip hop um on the radio, so rapp is delight and the message was always a big song with me um. But when I when I graduated high school, I went to Harvard and when I got to Harvard, it's right outside Boston. Um, you know, they weren't working with Go Go up there, and that's really when I became more just focused on hip hop um. And I started a radio show on the Harvard station. They were playing classical music and I had met a guy.

It was like nobody at Harvard that that I could you know, get along with or felt comfortable with. It was. It was a weird thing when I got there. But there was this one kid that I met who was playing rap music out of his dorm. This kid named John Scheckter. He was from Philly and he was into rap. So we end up joining the radio station, started a radio show that I did for four years and it got really popular in the Boston area. UM so UM The Source really comes along UM in between. Like at

the end of my sophomore year UM. I had been trying to sell sponsorships of the radio show and going out to local businesses and saying, hey know, take out a sponsorship. They were basically like, you know, who's listening to a hip hop show on Harvard station? Like, you know, I have to find a way to prove my audience. So I started building a mailing list of my listeners throughout the Boston area because I know, I got people calling in and you know, this is one am on

Friday nights. But back then, and you know, that was the only place you could hear rap music, you know, in a lot of cities. You know, he didn't have radio stations that were playing rap. Um so um. Anyway, The Source UM started as a newsletter that as I I started building a mailing list of all these people listening to my show, and that was the way I was put in a database to go out and try to get more sponsors for the show. In the process

of doing that, um answering the phones. People want to know what's going on, when's the new you know, Big Daddy Kane single coming out? And who produced this and what's going on with that? And you know, people wanted to know information. So all that ended up kind of sparking the idea. Uh instead of you know, selling sponsors of my radio show, I'm going to create the newsletter. I'm gonna put the news and information in it that

I'm getting. I got relationships with different labels now you know, I'm I'm dealing with all the labels in New York and l A to have rap music so I can get the music sent up to my college you know station and get the new singles first and all that and uh So anyway, it just it started like that, just with an idea to provide uh news and information to the hip hop community. Um, you know, because there

was nowhere to find any any of that information. Okay, so you came with that, man, and didn't it just progressively got bigger, Like what was the defining moment that made it go like bam, Like we're cooking with Greece now, I mean, I've got an asset a lot of times. I mean, the Source like really grew, just it grew fast and steadily and just kept getting big, big and big and big and bigger as the years, you know,

you know whatever. So um, you know, by by the late eighties, I mean before I left college in the summer nine, I mean, we probably had you know, at least five hundred records stores around the country selling The Source by that time, and um, you know, it just it kept you know, we passed one one accomplishment. But it was for me, it was always I'm already thinking ahead,

you know. After that first newsletter, Uh, somebody end up giving me a book about Rolling Stone magazine that I didn't know anything about at the time, and you know, I read the history of how Rolling Stone was started. I saw a lot of similarities between rock and roll and hip hop, and so that was what I was, I'm gonna build a Rolling Stone of hip hop. Uh,

you know, it was my first idea. And then even that change as time went on and I started getting into you know, television and other parts of the media, trying to become more of a diverse a fide you know, media and brand, because brand that was different from magazines. A lot of magazines didn't think of themselves as brands back in those days. So yeah, so you mentioned that you went to Harvard. What was your mom and your daddy thinking when you came home, told me, but I'm

gonna start up with magazine. And they paid all that money for you to go to Harvard. And then the thing like you were not to cut you off. Still, but like you said, the defining moment, what you say, that was attributed to you know, because you know rap was small, you know, you started off with the newsletter whatever what you say. Like with the growth of rap, more people wanted to get more inquired about rappers and

records and and basically what was going on. So the source was basically that that hip hop, like you said, Rolling Stone in effect, because even before I started rapping, that was a place where I went to to look forward to the next record or who was the new MC or whatever whatever, even before I started rapping at a young age. Yeah, it didn't. It didn't bother y'all when like you're building the source. But then you had

the hardcore rappers those days. Rappers didn't talk to didn't just binging with white boys, just just because so did you have to that people have had to grow, meaning the rappers had to grow and get to know you, to talk to you and to want to be a

part of the magazine. UM yeah, I mean I think, you know, I was always good at building relationships with all types of people, you know, and that was always you know, a big part of what made The Source successful was building those, um you know, those relationships across different you know aspects from whether it's the artists themselves, the managers, the artists friends, the label executives. You know.

I just you know, really just tried to um build relationships across you know, across the board and um um. So I was able to you know, also kind of get folks to sort of you know, believe in what The Source was doing, you know, and get a lot of support from the labels and the artists because it was like, you know, we're the kind of championing of

hip hop, you know, the voice for hip hop. Um. You know, I think we had a lot to do with helping it grow and you know, um, you know emerged throughout the ninety nineties and you know, become bigger and a lot of different ways. The Source has so many different you know things that impacted. So was it a one man show? Was it just you the whole ride? You you builded you the founder? Um, I mean no, in the beginning, it was me. I'm the one that came up with you know, the Source did the first one.

Then while I was in college, I ended up having three other partners, Um, the guy John Scheckter I mentioned UM and to other guys ed Ed Young and and James Bernard. So I had three three other partners that I cut into the company and we all worked together up until like maybe six years in. Then I had a split with two of those guys. Those guys you know, moved on UM. And it was sometime and you know in those years right around when I brought Ben Zeno in as you know, a partner with me that had

been my friend. I had been you know, knowing him from Boston from the music, you know, from my radio show before there was a source. Uh, you know, he had a local rap group and you know we got got to know each other and you know, so I had helped them get their record deals and things like that. But um, you know, the Source was my thing that I have been doing for a while but uh yeah, there was a few other a few other partners along

the way. But uh yeah, just let me leaning back on that one question ast what was your mom and your daddy thing? Good question. I mean I did get some some flak from that. You know, there was a little bit of that like is wrapped of course, instead of you the Harvard and you're up here like doing a wrap radio show and trying to do a rap magazine or whatever. You know what I mean, You're supposed to be boom. But they couldn't tell me nothing. Man, once, once I got going with it, I was so passionate

about it. You know, like I said, I always have been an entrepreneur, So I was like, man, it's gonna be big. You know, this is gonna be huge. And you know I loved the music and the culture. I'm living this every day, so you know, ship it all just you know, came together. Now you're coming to hip hop coaching. At that time, man, hip hop wasn't like that. You know, we always had gangsterrhism, but it was more

behind the scenes. You might see a motherfucker wrapping the Box Chicks on his record, but he could be the most gangster motherfucking the world. So you being a white dude coming in here man from you know, Harvard University and everything, did you ever catch any fleck from the Brothers at first when he first came in. Not really, No, I mean I've always felt, you know, people have accepted me, you know, in the black community, in any community, but

particularly you know, in hip hop. Um. You know, I never really got made to feel uncomfortable, you know, And I think that's one of the things about hip hop. You know, hip hop is is this, you know, it's a culture, and it's it's something that if you're you know, true to yourself, you know, we accept you no matter of exactly what hip hop is universal, man, that's what it is. And it's all about authenticity too. We never had no color lines as as far as rap concerned

or hip hop was concerned. I mean, Ship, everybody liked the motherfucking Beastie boys, you give me. I mean, back in that year, you couldn't even contest because Ship. You could have told any motherfucker. Then some motherfucking niggers right there. I don't give a fund before you heard them and the way carried themselves in the flow and was able to hang with running them. Um, so we as as as hip hop artists, we never crossed those color lines

as far as hip hop was concerned. If you were true hip hop again, third base, you get me true hip hop to us. So that was ship. I used to play like it wasn't anything. So I don't think we ever looked upon it like you know, the color lines. Now, if it was some corny ship, then of course we we we had to cross really, and that's what I think with anything else, man, people like authenticity. That's what I felt when I looked at the sources, I said, Okay,

these motherfucker's is on point. Like I told you, I would gauge because I had a Ricord store at one time too. I was gauged on what I was buying my store based on what theseus raided certain albums. I would be looking like, Okay, this's got two and a half mics. It's just some trash. I'm not working with it because most of the time it was you had to earn that trust, you know. I earned that trust and I said, Okay, this is really the bible for

hip hop. This is the guy you know. And one of the things we go fast forward a little bit, right, so fast forward a little bit. New York hip hop is killing it. You know. New York is like the Epicenter's the genesis for hip hop, That's the garden of eating for hip hop. Everything was kind of birth from there. Right then you get some cats on the West Coast, on the other side of the country starting to rise.

Did you see the attention did you feel like the competitive spirit on the East Coast when you was over there, when the West Coast started making noise? Um? What you know, what I always saw and what I always noticed was just the way that you know, people from New York had a certain you know, you know, just a certain arrogance and a certain way of not really taking you know, rappers and and rap and wrapped from other parts of

the country very seriously from early on. And that that created you know, like this divide with goals like you know them, you know what I mean, Like when our should is you know, is is banging out here? I don't know what you talking about. So um, you know, I think I just really tried as hard as as I could to try to, you know, bring in people that uh, you know, had an open ear to music as much as possible. Um, And you know, I think

we did a pretty good job with that over the years. Again, you know, we had our ups and downs and our hits and mrs here and there, But you know, I think overall, Um, you know, we really focused on that. I mean, I grew up on New York round. I mean, you can't say that our early stages of hip hop, we're very corny compared to fucking New York hip hop. You give me thus, you know, when you when you

are different. I mean, if you want to compare dudes like grand Master Flash and you want to compare people like Tela Rock in the beginning, or the Fat Boys or Curtis blow Or or Spooney g or just Ice, compared to fucking the Wrecking Crew and fucking Bobby Jimmy and the Critters and ship like that. We had fucking bullshit rap. Yeah, it started getting good. Todd didn't really

my nigga, Todd. You know, Um, Todd gave an ear in an avenue for niggas like us or in the neighborhoods who didn't who didn't have that that significant motherfucker on the mic, like a Mellie Male or those type of Motherfucker's who spoke about you know, uh, the jungle and the message and the ship like that. So you're basically saying that when it came to California rappers New York didn't have no songs where they wanted to play, like being in being a DJ and having you know,

doing a radio show. They didn't have good music to put out from the from the West Coast. No, not really there. And in those early years, ear years when we started, yeah, we started getting recognition around really the easy the easy stage. Okay, question for you. So when you when you had your radio station, did you play West Coast music or you did it was like mixed, like okay, yeah, well I mean, I mean that's how we got a lot of our breaks because that was

one thing about Boston that was different. Boston was a city different from most of the East Coast, where like if if I was in New York or Philly or something like that, I probably wouldn't have got exposed. But yeah, they fucked with you know, ghetto boys, they they fucked with all kinds of music. They weren't like just on an New York even what kind of what kind of rappers did you like from the West Coast then I mean Easy, n w A. I mean, you know, um,

you know, it was like it wasn't too much. You know, it wasn't there in the beginning. There was I mean I came out after the fact of Easy and right, Yeah, I came around. Um, but like you said, before the end, we didn't really have no identity as West Coast hip hop. As much as I respect, I respect with them dudes did, but like the dream Team that yes, we're here, and it was just all corny, you know what I mean. It was kind of like just corny, but there was

big records out here. It was nonetheless because we had no identity for hip hop. So to us, when you listen to the Wrecking Crew, turn off your lights, or you listen to the l A dream Team, dream Team is here, or you listen to some Bobby Jimmy and the Critters and ship like that, some some motherfucking parody rap you get me. Fuck it, I'm gonna take the song rumors and make another song out of it, like some weird Al Yankovic ship. You know, we didn't get

all respect for we until Easy came. And then Easy started talking about honestly, really, like I said, we had tied and mixed Master Spade, but that didn't get mainstream like Easy did and was Easy broke. Then we started, Then we got T Love, and then we got motherfucking Cube and Motherfucker's the follow after dub c Us see W and then everything that trickled down and people start going, Okay,

it's West Coast. Motherfucker's got some flavor. But up until the end that ship, everything I listened to came from the East Coast. I used to run the paramount swapneat and just buy none but East Coast twelve. I think we all did, because it really nothing at that time. There was because I liked the lyrical ship. Really one of the first lyrical cats I heard from the early days. I always thought King T was a rapping motherfucking was a rapping motherfucker, you know what I mean. Kant was

a rapping motherfucker. And I heard a rumor that actually King T had I heard Biggie Smalls was a King T fan. And when you listen back to them early records, you can kind of hear a little bit the way you know King T. Because King T and everybody was rapping on the one back then kind of like right, King T used to lay back in the track like he was just in the Cadillac, Like he laid back in and you just pictured it and it was like

these real visual like even with this album. But you know, twelve Gage walking on the side, that was some pivotal ship. So I want to know from you, what was the vibe back then because you was on the East Coast? Was the East Coast based magazine when that ship started making noise? Wasn't a lot of hate really in the air, like all that ship ain't it's gonna go away? The West Coast? Yeah, like the first West Coast me. I mean I was you know, I wasn't really tuned into that.

Like I said, I already had an open mind, you know. So I mean, I'm sure there were people, you know, in New York and around you know, our office or whatever that might. You know, I felt that way, um, but I didn't see. That's what I want to know. Don't give us the politically correct answers. I want to know if it was the motherfucker that worked in the office, like the chronic man, it's some bullshit. I don't want

to hear this all this. I know by that time, we was, we were sicking, we was, we was, we was on point as far as music. By the time the Chronic came out, Chronic, if you know, it was one of the most you know, important even influential turning points and source with with that cover with Dre with the gun to his head. You know, we put that out before the Chronic came out. You know, when you know I went to track down Dre, I had to go through Shug and got them to agree to give

us the exclusion interview and do that cover. Heard the album was going crazy over that album before you know it came out. So we dropped that cover like a month or two before the album actually dropped, so and that really helped blow the source of even bigger. That's one of our That's probably my favorite cover I got that. I got that maga down like this one. Was that collected? I want to know, was was there any tension because you know y'all used to rate the records, give people

the mics and all that. Did you ever have any tension over the situations of reading people's albums, Um, don't give us the album, man, we want to hear the real it's against the chronicles. We want to hear that, you know, you know, because the motherfucker get that album and I mean get that magazine and open it and you get to the albums and then you see four mics on something and you see three mics and you see two and a half. I know, motherfucker's would be

like Man two and a half. But the funk man, all right, I mean buying large as a whole. You know, honestly, we didn't have those issues. I mean people didn't. You know, we had a certain level of respect, you know, in the in the industry, and you know, I think that didn't really happen very often. Um now, because I got four, Mike, so I was good. I got my four. There was some moments in like when I said how like my partners had left in like four. There was some moments

where the Source started getting into it with artists. I don't know if you remember. There was iced tea beef going on. There was um uh public enemy, um cube actually did the source on hand of the dead body. Um but uh yeah, it was just a whole bunch of old Cypress Hill. There was a whole thing going on between Cypress Hill and the Source where we really helped blow Cypress Hill up, Like, you know, before they even came out, we were pushing them in the magazine.

We loved Cypress Hill. Help blow them up. But then there was a falling out between them and some of these editors at the Source that were writing ship whatever. They had a whole thing with them where they ran up on me down to Miami at one of the music conferences. Um, you know behind that and you know, nothing, nothing happened. I was able to talk to all of them. It was like fifteen and them with you know, all the Samoans they ran with, you know, the Boy Brothers. Yeah,

I was. I was down there by myself at this music conference, you know. But anyway, you know, so stuff like that. People definitely took the ratings seriously. But um, you know, we didn't have to deal with too much drama. Fortunately over the years. That's a good thing because hip hop can be kind of like, you know, it gets you know, I know a lot of rappers, man, some cats take their stuff serious and they'd like to push

their line like that. So you never had nobody running up in the office, man, like what the hell going on man, this ship, I mean, it's over now you can tell us. Now let's bring some news. But this is this is a story that that I've talked about and that me and him talking about, I think on on one of his shows. But Dame Dash, there was a situation where, you know, uh, jay Z was we were supposed to give jay Z to cover. Now when

we did a cover, like, we wanted it to be exclusive. Okay, we're gonna give you the cover, Like we got to get the first dives, be the first magazine, the first interview, and we need to get that out there right like when the album drops and then after that next month or whatever you could do other you know, um, you know, other types of things. But um, um Ship was saying about the Yeah, so so we were gonna give j the cover, um, and we had agreed to do it.

It was gonna be exclusive, and um, I think the album got pushed back something like that. And the next thing I know, um, the very first issue of Double X magazine comes out and it has jay Z on the cover, and UM, you know, I'm like, well, damn. You know, we had an arrangement, you know, to have the exclusive for jay Z and now he's on the you know, you know that the time Deluxel was supposed to be this big competitor to the Source and he's on the cover. So you know, I decided I wasn't

gonna do the cover. I pull that back on it. There was some you know, drama behind that, and it ended up one one day, Damon Dash and about four or five guys ran up into the Source office. I wasn't there. I was out somewhere, but I got the phone call and they were like in the lobby, you know,

trying to cause some some rockets or whatever. But you know, we had our our security, you know, and guys they having basically you know, everybody left peacefully, you know, and you know that was like one of the memorable ones. But it wasn't nothing like crazy. Again. We fortunately didn't have any like crazy type situations. No issues with Shige night. Uh No. I always had a great relationship with Sugar. Um.

He was always you know, respectful to me and very supportive. Um. You know, like from that first cover with Dre, you know, he's really helped make that happen. And uh even with the you know, with the ninety Source awards, Um, you know, A lot of people don't know he spent like over a hundred thousand dollars on that set that opened up the show. Death Row had the jail cells and everybody performed.

You know, we didn't have that kind of money. This is our first time ever televising the Source Awards, and he's he's really the only label that stepped up and spent that kind of money. A lot of the other labels supported. That was the whole way I was able to make it happen was because of the relationships I had with the Sugars, the Jay Princes, the Puffs, you know, Russell Simmons, le Or Cohen's, all the different players, you know, to get everybody to come together, you know, and and

and do it. But uh, you know that really made the show look on television way doper. You know, that opening set was you know, the most dope probably performances ever on an award show. So um no, I never never really had any any drama with Now James just did something. I don't know if he did it on

purpose or not. He just landed on something that we got to talk about in length, in detail that Source Awards because in my opinion, death Row Records probably had the best performance ever at the Source of Awards when they came out with all the jail sales on on the thing and everybody was out there and you see r b X come out because some of them represents on death Row. That was people's first time actually getting

to see them, you know, perform. So when they came out on stage and everything we was going through your mind when that whole night happened. Was the chaos was attention to the airman and think because we right in the middle of the war almost then, that's like right at the start of the war. Attention I was there, Yeah, well I was to know the war there would that night that was that was an interesting night. I was attention.

I had beef with quick that night, right. Yeah. It was tension in the building because that was the night that m C eight because he was up there with the whole ful of people and you were sitting right in the stags the front, right in front. To do that though, I would have you know, I would have said something. They kind of threw that in because that wasn't part of theirs. They tried to the wife or something.

They tried to diss me on stage during the show and we was ready to fight about eight niggers with they did something about the fiance. Uh, somebody recognized the fiance and some bulletshit and uh you heard the wooes and the woes when when he said it, So people was picking. Yeah, But what I will say is there

wasn't tension going in there. Like a lot of people think about, you know, kind of what you were saying, Like they think about the Source Awards as like the start of you know, where things you know go left and and and and everything that happens after that. But you know, I don't look at it like that. It's like, um, you know, there was no tension. Park wasn't jail and going into that night, nobody knew that Park was coming

out and gonna be on death row. Okay, So Park had his drama with you know, Big and Bad Boy that have been going on while he was in jail. But me putting the Source Awards together, you know, I didn't see any you know beasts. There was no problems at any point you know, between death rowing Bad Boy at this point now you know, and then there's differing you know, opinions, Like one of the things about that

show like that. Uh that I noticed is you know when you watch the ninety five Source Awards bad Boy, you know, the death Row opens it and kills with that performance. But before sug goes on stage, there's a bad Boy performance at Medley where he had everybody there too, you know, Craig mac total big little kid, Junior Mafia. But at the beginning of that Puffs kneeling on the stage and he's saying this on the spotlight. You know, I live in the East and I'll die in the East.

You know. Now that's before shuld goes on stage. So I never had the opportunity to have this conversation with Sugar. I hope you know that I will one day uh to find this out. But in my mind, I'm thinking like that might have been something, you know, that made him feel a certain way, you know, probably definitely kicked it off. Yeah, this sounds like you're throwing dirt. Then you know what I mean when you say, you know,

I live everything that happened. But um, like we had talked about it, I guess before we really got on air. It's like the real situation between death Row and bad Boy doesn't start until a month or so later, when you know, Jake is killed down in Atlanta, that's really the start of the violence, the drama, everything going crazy

from there. Now, you know, we can talk about that a little bit because I didn't even know James at the time, but I remember when Jake got killed, it was a lot of like it was some real cats in the street talking about that because I remember one of my good homeboys, you know, Crawford. He was mad as hell, tears flaming down as he came by my house when that happened. That Jake was a real good dude.

And I knew I knew Jake very well. You know, he was doing promotion for death Row and we used to you know, talk a lot, and I would go see him when I came out, you know, visit our here, and you know, I had a lot of love for Jake.

So yeah, that was that that hurt, you know when uh, when when we lost Now, what's going through your mind, man, Because I've had these situations, you know, to where you're sitting home listening to something, you know, you there, you're listening to it, and it's like in the moment and like you can stop because all this stuff is actually happening right now. When you saw should go up there

and say, and you knew where he was going. If you don't want the executive producer dancing all in the videos, what's your heart just beating? Like, oh man, it's about to go down. I mean, of course I was like, oh man, with you know the room. You know, the room got loud, you know, because you know, he kind of got booed, you know, because it's five thousand people in there. You got maybe not even a thousand in

the front. That's the industry. People of the rest is people from New York exactly who bought tickets to sit in the in the back and upstairs and everything. So you know, I was in the back of the theater, like just walking around, I would, you know, just trying to check the temperature, see what was going on out in the crowd. So I kind of remember, you know, hearing that in the commotion, and I you know, made the B line to get backstage and you know, chugging

his guys. Like the back of the theater in the garden, it's like stairs that go up and down the different you know levels of the backstage and resting rooms and ship like that. I just remember going over on that side and it was like fifty guys just running up and down the stairs, the stairs like you know, kind of causing the ruckets, just yelling and screaming whatever. And then Puff was over on the other side of the

stage and to the other side of the stage. He had a bunch of people around him and he was really upset about it, and you know, but he decided to kind of take the higher ground, you know, and and and not you know, respond or whatever, and he calmed down, and you know, so there wasn't no you know, it was you know, there was tension, but there wasn't no it wasn't even a punch thrown that night that

I've ever heard of, you know. Um, And sometimes people just make it out like it was much more and make it out, you know, like that's really what caused everything that happened afterwards. And you know, to me, that's part of the history that you know, I want to try to get told correctly and get out because I've heard through the years, I've heard about a girl claimed that she got slept with a bottle or something like that. Outside the Source of Wars, somebody got cracked with a

bottle or something like that. So that what truth, I don't think I being inside, I don't think I've witnessed any actual scrapping or actual fighting. So and but it was serious tension, and that's serious tension and that's a good thing. Man. So now the war is on, and you're right, it just didn't start that. It would have been bubbling kind of because if I'm correct, correct me if I'm wrong, James. But Sugar and Puffy was actually hanging out pretty tough at one point, wasn't he. Yep?

They was you know, they was boys. So that frud was puff shot like man, this supposed to be my man, and he appeared you know what I'm saying this and or whatever, you know what I'm saying. It was at that point sheould wanted to why didn't like I don't you know, like I said, I never had no problems with should I've had talks with Sugar and all that. What what sparked him to do that that night? Just to take over? It was just you know, I'm for the star when people toes. I don't know what it was.

I think she wanted somebody. Puppy. Puppy was like that ain't happening. You know, he actually stood up to him, and that was a sign like who the nigga think he is? So she felt a certain god away and then ship just start happening through. I think it was more he says. She say, boys, ship that was going back and forth from New York to us, and Sugar was getting it, and it was only one way to reply to that ship. Okay, let's let's start poking needles

at motherfucker's start being disrespectful. And then you couple that with the Tupac stuff, because I don't heard it's so many stories about that. You don't know what's true or not true unless you was there, you know what I mean, Because I know Biggie and Tuthpock at one time was running tough because I could swear DJ Bob kats mother god brother. You know DJ Bock is my god brother.

He did a lot of work with Tupac prior to him coming with you know, Deathro like them earlier, was before Tupac became the iconic duty was and I remember a few times actually seeing I remember seeing Biggie with with Tupac. But this is back before either of them dues what's who they were? So now the war is kicked off. Man, everything is crazy. How did that impact you doing business? You know, business still moving on, of course,

but now everybody old sensitive. So if it looks like you're picking the side, have you ever got to cue of picking the side? No? Again, you know that's just something I really try to navigate very carefully, just you know that kind of you know, sensitivity to situations. You know, not wanting to ever be in a position of you know,

inflaming a situation. Um you know, um with you know, one of the things that I did in nineties six, you know, while It's stuff was going on, I mean we couldn't do a Source awards that you know, it just wasn't the environment to do that. So it did put a stop to that. But um I did a cover with Sugar in the summer of nineties six, the one you know where he's sitting on a rose Royce

and you know, get a real in depth interview. But on the front cover you'll see it says Sugar Knight and then it quotes it ain't no East coast West coast thing, which was a quote from him and the article. So to me, that was something to try to get that message out there to people like, this isn't East West thing. This is you know, obviously it's something you know,

it's a personal thing you know that was going on. Um. So you know that's an example of a way that I would try to, you know, help a situation if I could, you know, like that, um and and just not get into just printing a bunch of you know, inflammatory ship that's going to end up you know, leading to you know, some some real consequences. Yeah, people don't do that as big because people are printing damn thing not knowing that could get motherfucker's knocked down, right, you

know what I'm saying. So now we're going through all that stuff. Man, then uh, you had a whole thing that happens in the Night of Las Vegas, you know, in Las Vegas when Tupac got killed, right, Um, And I think that's when everything kind of like kind of slowed down from there, you know what I'm saying, kind of slowed down. Then Biggie got killed, right, and that's when everybody was kind of like, man, this ship is real,

you know what I mean. And that ship, I don't think it had nothing to do with no hip hop. I think that was all some other ship going on, you know, why not? Why not? I just don't think it was about the music, man. I think it was a lot of other ship involved. Well, you you've got two guys just turning and found a way to make money with record shells and everything else. And they called it a beets. So now they got neighborhoods fighting against each other. So they turned it into a gang banging

on wax type of ship. So now you got the bloods and the cribs fighting, and people was loving it and eating this ship up and buying all the music they can buy from both sides. So what they what they wanted to do. It worked because they made a gang of money off this ship during this beef. So you can't go and tell everybody were rehearsing this ship. We ain't really doing it for real, but this is

just a show to make money. So all the guys in Compton, all the guys in New York, all the guys in the South Side, and everybody else, they believe in this ship is real. But that's what I'm saying. And so it turned to some street ships. They want to turn it opposed but it got music. Motherfucker's it got it got rapped, was involved, and they've been involved, and they're the biggest ones prom and I hate you, fuck you, I'll suck your white bulls shit. Who's gonna

react to that that they're talking about? And they're eating this ship up? So here they are fighting and going at war. But now that's in the streets. Yeah, it was some real ship, man, because um me and big Tires, Big sych rest in Peace. That was like my brother and um you know, he had told me a story about, you know, seeing faith in the actual hotel. I won't get into that right now, but it was some real dust being thrown like Motherfucker's really was doing some maniacs ships,

you know, trying to win up the next man. So you can't tell me that that didn't You didn't hear all this ship going on behind the scenes when you was up in the magazine. Man, there, you can keep it real here, man, I'm gonna get you mikes man before you man, I'm going to let it out. I think how big as steal as it guy to him, but for real, for real, the only dame that matters is that he didn't put the bullshit. Yeah, he didn't

print it. And that's one thing I was gonna commed you on, because you could have probably sold a couple of million extra magazines by just putting certain little things that you don't hurt. You could have made a lot of money. And you controversial and you know us here doing we do. It's a lot of ship we keep up from the reps that could be shipped. Like, man, if we put this out, this is gonna blow up. But we know the repercussions of talking about certain ship.

You know, everything isn't cool to put out in public. You know everything in cool to put in public. Man, So this is going on, man, and we go touching another subject. Man. You see, as you knew ben Zino, your friends coming up from when you was in Harvard. Then you got people that come out and say that ben Zino actually extorted the company from you. And it never seemed like that to me. I always thought that

was kind of some bullshit. I said with him, dude, seem a little too tight for it to be like, he don't look like he extorted the man, look like they're just doing business together. What did that come about? That that ever caused an attention between you and him. No, no, I mean that was never the situation. And so no, I never caused any attention. Yeah, because being is a good being. Is a dude that we know. You know, he's you know, he's always been corgied with us and everything.

Uh and I think sometimes because he has that three D eggs to him, people try to put one thing on to that every like you never really spoke on that. Yeah, I mean, you know, he definitely, Um, you know, people you know try to say a lot of different things those room as you're talking about you know, other things you know about him. I mean me and him had a had a friendship and turned into a business partnership and you know it lasted for a long time. Um,

and uh you know we're not partners now. Uh. Beat that we haven't really touched on yet. But that's the new platform. Yeah, well we go we go land on that. Yeah, wean't get into that. Um you know that's uh, that's something I'm doing. I have a new a new partner, guy named Kendrick Ashton, who was my business partner, is a really really great partner. And yeah, man, that's you know, it haven't always seemed like it was a Corgi relationship.

Because business relationships in and stuff like that that happens. That's part of life, you know what I mean, that's a part of just doing business sometimes, So why do they always fall apart? Though? Why would? And I'm just I just want to understand it. You can't go in business and have so many business partners and have so many partners, but the relationships don't last. Why. I think A lot of it is communication, and a lot of

it is the outside noises. I'm gonna tell you me, you and eight could be eight one, but it ain't us. If the people getting his it's the people getting in my ear. The people always on the outside that's getting in your ear. It's always somebody that's outside. They want to try to infiltrate their way in the room. And the way they do that sometimes it is by going to cause distinction amongst everybody else. You understand what I'm saying.

I've seen it all day. So I think as long as you keep your circle tight, man, I think that's how you prevent because outside influence and make you think you ain't getting what you deserve. Straight up, outside influence and come along and be like well ship, I know, a motherfucker getting more than what you getting, or a

motherfucker getting more popularity do this or doing that. It's always the outside influence who manages to always infiltrate and make you start thinking that you're you know, you're not getting your just do. It's just it just happens and ship, you know, and then sometimes that leads to motherfucking frustration and irritation between motherfucker's because now you're always thinking like, huh, yeah,

I know, motherfucking gold chain on that. Motherfucker got a gold chain on You got a nice diamond watch on them, but I ain't got no diamond watch on them. It's just always it's always a motherfucker. I don't give a funk who it is. It's always motherfucker who always watching what the next motherfucker got. It's usually a motherfucker that don't have ship. If you ever noticed, and ain't never no dude they're doing better, y'all. It's always a guy

that's doing work. The question because you didn't have you have four partners doing your the beginning to now, and every time you lose a partner, do you lose the friendship and all that with it. I mean, I mean it's just a rough business. I know that. But if everybody be one hunted, the business state one hunting. That's why communication is important. Shoot me, I ain't gonna cheat you because I'm gonna tell you what happened. And I probably I don't even know much about this, but I

beg you. I'm willing to bet that those partners that left you early on probably want to start their own try to start their own stuff up. They were the ones who started XXL magazine. It was a couple of years later, but that's what I'm saying. That's how it always els. You know, well, I'm gonna go start think even worse, something like you know, so, um they online. I don't think it's too There ain't too many magazines, it exists. Not everything is online now you know they're

not imprinting out. You know that the thing is and that's what happens. You know, you get guys, but see you move kind of high moved because I don't respond to stuff like that. Somebody gonna do something, God bless them. I'm just gonna keep on doing me and I'm ignore it. Outside lines noise, and that's what you kind of that's what you did, you know, because what you did for hip hop, no matter what nobody try to discredit you with,

you brought it up a left. Let's like, you can honestly say that without the Source Magazine, hip hop may not beat with the deals today because you brought a light to it. Was no internet back then, people couldn't go online. But you put it to another level because you put it in front of people. Because of you, people found out about like m c A. And that's why I said in the beginning, it was even a platform for us as artists to be in tuned on

other motherfucking artists. And with that, all ships so and so got a record out. Let me check that ship out. Oh they gave this motherfucker three and a half mics. Let me check this record out. You can see the latest ship motherfucker's interviewing and find out about the motherfucker and all that type of ship. So for to be an artist, we waited on the Source Magazine every month for the new issue. So the Source Magazine pretty much

told you you need to step your game up. You could go through the Source Magazine when you see a motherfucker on that cover you knew that was the hottest motherfuck at the moment. Then you could read the other articles on where motherfucker's came from, how they got the deals, where motherfucker's grew up, how they was this and that. You know what I'm saying. You can see motherfucking ads about new ship that was coming out. All that type

of ship was in there. But don't forget. You know, it was the magazine and hip hop music culture and politics, so you know, we had the social and the political ship running every magazine. We had the fashion you know, we yeah, all big influence in the fashion, and I did a couple of motherfucking fashion spreads in there for Pile Pile and all the type of sports we had.

I started the sports ship y'all. Y'all had the unsigned height where you could you know a lot of motherfucker's that became artists and ship you knew about them from me because you knew they were unsigned artists. You could read coming ex eminem Hona Noriega, David Banner, El Santana to Electronica, hit Ball. I'm forgetting a few of them, but they all you know, sad skills. They always in unsigned height before they had their record deals, and we

got a lot of those guys their deals. And you know what's dope about that, bro, it's a real you know, of course y'all was in the East coast, so but it's a nice representation of people from all around the country. You got the Midwest in there, you got the dirty dirty, and there you got you know, you got all these different people. You got a cat from Mississippi, you know, David Banner, you know. So that's what it was, dope,

And I think that's why people fun with y'all. I think that's why people still fun with you to day. By the way, Glass Malone topny say telling that, I said, what's up? That's my nigger right there. Yeah, Jim alone toping to tell you what was happening. Man. So now you know, we're moving on with the sorce. So I'm trying to land in where we're at today, right, So we're moving on with the source. Y'all go through all that.

You don't have business partnerships and then you have a cool kind of act, your own thing that you've built from the ground up. You have some motherfucker's from the inside to try to take what you created from you you're talking about the walk out of the editorial staff in the nineties. Yeah, I mean basically, Um, you know that kind of goes back. I remember how we was saying that there was these beasts going on with the different artists, the iced teas and the Cypress Hills and

ship like that. You know, I didn't support that because a lot of it was based on the editors starting to kind of like you know, feel themselves and you know, people starting to get you know, thinking they were like the you know, the celebrities and going back and forth with different artists on things, and like I wasn't with that, so I would keep you know, going and telling these guys like, you know, we can't do you know, we

shouldn't be doing this type of ship and that. You know, it was getting worse and worse, and different situations kept popping up, and you know, these guys just weren't listening. And one of them was my business partner that owned a piece in the company that made it more difficult,

you know, that type of thing. Um, So we were already were kind of at odds where they were trying to like sort of do the company the way they wanted to do it, you know, and uh so, um at the around this time time is when um Penzino's group gets signed to our CIA Records, that got an album deal, and you know, we want to give them

a little article in the magazine. So I go down to the editorial people and say, hey, you know they got album deals coming out later this whatever, a couple of months, whatever it is, you know, can we get a little something? Oh? Man, fuck them, you know, we don't sunk with them. It's just whack. And you know this, And there was like some personal ship where you know, they were mad at me. They would you know, mad because they felt like they was just before they even

heard it right, right. And I kept trying a few times, and finally it got to the point where I'm like, this is my magazine. I'm just gonna put an article in. And that's how that started. I put an article in. I got an article in the magazine that the editors didn't know about when it came back from the printer,

and I went and showed it to him. Like a couple of guys just went crazy and started this whole cool I mean, like sent out this letter, five page letter to everybody in the industry saying all kind of crazy ship. Oh, Dave May's must resign. You know. He an article about a group that he manages to try to fire every last one of the other all this kind of stuff. They come to the office, they smoke weed in the office, and this, that and the other, and these guys are are a terrible blop up up

all kinds of ship. It started all kinds of stuff and then uh got people to sign a petition, you know, to try to get me to step down. But yeah, eventually I basically just replaced everybody in the source, you know, on it got bigger than it ever was. And that's what you have to do sometimes, you know, because they already had they had personal vendetta's in your mind, and people like that are destructive. They're very destructive. If you don't watch him, if you let it slide, they fuck

your company up. So let's keep on going. We go go, and I'm promise you we're gonna lead this source area to go through this new stuff. So y'all have beef, which it's a beef that starts. A few bars get exchanged between Eminem and ben Zino. Benzino put out a lot of a record right this and Eminem and so Eminem is an incredible artist. But I think a lot of points that ben Zino had were valid points at

the time. They were, you know, he gets away with certain ship that black artists can't get away with doing, you know what I mean. So y'all get this thing and interscope and they decide to Okay, we're not gonna run the more ads in the magazine. Right. What was the feeling that, man, Because it seemed like that was just like that was some some major ship right there. Um. I mean the ads were just the whole situation, just the whole situation, because I've never seen somebody to take

them getting criticized so personal. It was like other people get other people. When you're an artist and you put your art on display, you go out there and put yourself out there, You're not just opening yourself up from the praise that you go garding from there, You're opening yourself up any criticism. We're doing this podcast, it might have a thousand lights on that motherfucker. It's always gonna be the one or two motherfucker's or that was some bullshit.

I think it's one thing for the criticism but I think it's one thing when you have a personal issue with the way you feel about some situations, because you you're saying that you know, you know Eminem was able to get away with certain ship that you know regular artists couldn't pull. But ship. Look at who the funk he is. He was a big ass, motherfucking diamond selling fucking artists. You get me out the gate with that first. A lot of motherfucking artists on that status can get

away with a lot of ship. You get me, and I just feel it. I mean it, Look at this ship, Kanye do as a fucking black artist, do you get me get away with a gang of ship? Motherfucker's on a normal page would not be funning, That's true. But but my thing here, But my thing is this though, Bro, how many artists did you see go try to shut down the whole magazine because somebody said something didn't like. You're always gonna have some criticism, And that was my thing.

What about the president? Yea, because I don't try to shut your ship down, because shut the fucking ship down. Shut it down right now? You can't, of course, and we're supposed to be able to have freedom of speech. But really, can you have freedom of speech when motherfucker's

are in power here? Because this seems like that was just real personal with me because he wasn't the first artist that y'all had comments about, you know what I mean, The Mighty said some derogatory about and it didn't get to to that level, but when it was in, it seemed like it was just a real like a lot of personal ship behind that dog. Well, first of all, like you know, we did a lot to help Eminem in his career, you know, and helped blow him up.

He was an unsigned hype before he got his record deal. You know, we featured him an unsigned hype. Um, he's the first white person artist anything ever to be on the cover of The Source. You know, after ten plus years when he got a cover, he was the first white person ever on the cover. Um, he won Lyricist of the Year at the Source Awards. I believe in Oh, he's a rapping motherfucker. Dog. You can't dispute that he's a rapping motherfucker. So, you know, we really supported him

for the first several years of his career. Um. The situation really you know, started around the time of the eight Mile movie. And you know that was when kind of like the media was going into a whole another level about eminem like, you know, he's the king of hip hop, he's the greatest artist of all times. This movie, this, that,

and the other, that type of thing. I think that was the sentiment that kind of you know, Benzino was talking to me about and kind of got under his skin a little bit of feeling like, you know, this is just too much and this is kind of like reminded me of what happened with rock and roll and Elvis and things like that, and we gotta be you know. So anyway, he vented by making a little disrecord on a mixtape, and then, like you said, it just all

of a sudden escalated like crazy. All kinds of ship was going on, you know behind that, and you know, one thing led to another. I mean it definitely got personal, which you know was not a good thing. But and

that's what I'm talking about right there. I don't think it was nothing wrong with him being upset or whatever like that, but I'm like, okay, now, you and even you see in other situations, if someone says something against that dude, he takes it really personal and I'm like you rich motherfucker just kicked back with that dude talking about do your thing because he's the one thing you can't not dispute with him a win and go get

things about eminem as. He's a rapping motherfucker. He could rhyme his ass if he can rhyme, But it's a whole bunch of other rhyming motherfucker's still You've got Xino Excel, you got rass cash dudes that rapped just as good as him, but never got the thing because he had a push. He was the you know a lot of people bought eminem albums that didn't necessarily funk with rap. A lot of them sales wasn't necessarily from the hip hop community. You get what I'm saying. So we get that.

My main question, what that is you get in the scope? That's because he started paysing to that side. When Emine Them first came out to me, he was a rack. He was rapping. You know, I'm slim shady and that type of ship. When you start doing records about niggas killing themselves over you and ship like that, you're crossing over to a different side. Okay, So of course those

other motherfucker. You don't think motherfucker's outside of hip hop start gravitating to a motherfucker was ready to commit suicide over nigger something. That's a whole bunch of you get me. That's some other side. But another part of that is, like you know, because they try to say that like the eminem made hip hop bigger by bringing in a

new audience. And you know, my thing is, you know, any rapper before them, all the black artists that went platinum, multi platinum, you know, the majority of their audience was white consumers just run d MC all the way up. So that wasn't like a new thing, you know, for like all of a sudden, all these white people to

be buying hip hop, you know what I mean. So, but like you said, in my opinion, you ain't listening to black hip hop artists talk about how motherfucker's stalking them and ready to kill him and kidnap them over ship and ready to drive cars off of bridges in the rain because you don't recognize them as being a fucking fan. You don't getcause to do that type of ship. When you connect with that type of motherfucker. It's some motherfucker's sitting up really like that. That's when you start

reaching a different side. So I get what you're saying. It's cool to have your opinion about, but god damn, you get me. Like you you're feeling like, Okay, this motherfucker taking our art form. He's taken on. But like you said, that motherfucker rap like a motherfucker. You know, there was no disputing that at first. There was no problem at first, you get me, And a lot of motherfucker's gravitated to him because Dr dre stepped in. Oh yeah, I member. Before Dre stepped in, he had ship that

was mediocre. When Drake came in and gave him the two songs, it took him there straight up. So I get it. You can have that opinion, but like you said, it's personal because I don't think a lot of people were looking at it to where that's what media is gonna do. Though, media is gonna go, he's the great white hope, He's here to save hip hop. They don't like hip hop anyway, so why not picks some motherfuck off and go the white boy is here to save

hip hop? Of course, And you know the thing, you know, I was working for a publishing company is A and R one time, and I was working to coming. I was working for was based in London, So I'm shooting up there listening to the nineteen year old son tell me about hip hop, and he tell we had dinner one day he said, well, Eminem saved hip hop, and I'm like, what the fund are you talking about? Like, you know these says hip hop? So fuck Chuck D and Fun, Public Enemy and care as one and all

these other people. Is Eminem. He you you should say he brought it to your attention. That was the first one. Your motherfucker's gonna how to speak still to speak, You have to ask it who the greatest of all time? And they're gonna say some ship like that, especially when they when they don't come from your official era. That's what I'm saying. So you get all this advertising money,

and other people started following suit. Other record companies started kind of following suit because they didn't want to look like they was going against because then the scope at that time was the ship. There was the machine. They had everything over there. I mean Universal Music Group, you know, on Interscope, on Jam, on Universal Records. They had maybe

seventy eight of the market. So but you know another thing about that is, you know, at this time, you know, the sources getting advertising dollars from so many types of companies, cars, soft drink, sneakers, fast food, so it didn't matter. Advertising was a small amount, so you weren't tripping. So that's why he was able to react. What he did was like fun, damn right, it didn't that. That didn't mean nothing,

you know. And so you know, um, I managed Glasses Malone and he's on club out for the other night. He's in the room and we didn't go going through the detail. I guess Royce was in feelings because you was in there y'all having the cordial conversation, and I guess he kicked you out to kick you off the stage whatever. Right, because of that, man, all that stuff is still going on to this day. Is still that

much animosity and resentment. I mean, not on my end, you know, I don't have any animosity or about It's not obviously not you, you know the other twenty other people. Yeah, I mean, you know that was just I don't know, he just I said something that he took in the fence and he started, you know, talking a bunch of stuff and then he basically just hung the phone up on me, you know, on clubhouse, cutting me off talking after he cutting me off. Yeah, that's a whole of

the conversation. You know, I don't care about it. We get off of you something I really wanted to do. I just I don't know how I got into that room that night. But man, you're launched the podcast networking. No sex thing is bad advertising. That ship was everywhere. I'm gonna tell you this, man, we could do an episode here talking about a cure for AIDS, talking about a guaranteed cure for cancer and talk about piece and

all that ship. That ship won't get no attention. But if we got somebody here talking about who got they here? Bust that whose wife got plugged? Man, it's gonna be all over the place. So sometimes you know, it's like, hey, it's what it is, man, So let's think about this. Man, You've already accomplished something that was like you know, that's gonna go down to history. The Source magazine will be

remembered two hundred years from now. It's gonna be spoken when they look they gonna do classes up in Harvard Yale and all that or wherever they do from school and how they they're doing school in the future. They go talk about it. Right now, you got your new venture man that you launch it. Man, you jumped in the podcast game Man. You have a podcast network. Yeah. Yeah, it's called break Beat, um and uh it's uh hip hop podcast network. Right now, we have eight different podcasts

going on different types of podcasts. So we're doing something that are you know, visual talk discussion format type podcasts, sort of like you know these That's what we're doing. But we're also doing, um, you know, more of the journalistic um, you know, narrative storytelling, produced style of podcasts. Um. You know. So, so you're doing scripted stuff over there too,

that's dope. I'm working on one right now. He's that they deemed to actually go be in They don't know what ship, but they go be in it, you know. So yeah, um so yeah, I mean, so, I got like a couple of hosts that I think are amazing. One is, um, Don't call Me White Girl. She's from Philly. That's our first podcast. Some of y'all know her, but most people know about why you're being weird of me?

You know. Actually, yeah, I'm the whole girl. Yeah all right, so yes, she started all that, and she was on a million dollars worth of Game last year as a co host with Gilly and Wallow for a few months, and she was killing it on there. She's just super funny but super smart. I think she's gonna be one of the most successful kind of female hosts and talent in the game and not too long. So I call

her like one of my unsigned hypes of breakbeat. You know, podcasting is an industry that you know, there's a lot of you know, interesting things going on, but it's a place where you know, new talent can be discovered, new voices, new perspectives. UM. Podcast network is kind of like the digital magazine that everybody has been trying to figure out how to do for years. You know, you hear that word term digital magazine, but it's never you know, we've

never read a digital magazine. But a podcast network has all the different sections you know again, the music, the fashion, the politics, health, you know, sports. You know, we'll be covering all all of these things. Um bunchers with that hip hop style perspective point of view. Um. You know, um funny Marco is the other one I would call like my unsigned hype most of you you know, you guys probably He's funny as shit, and I just think he has a certain you know, comedic uh style that

can be brought into the podcast world. And I think he's gonna get even bigger. We just started shooting his podcast in Atlanta last week. White Girl, Don't Call Me White Girl has been out already. Now that's on our YouTube. Um, you can check out the first few episodes of her show. Is doing really really well. Um. You know, I'm coming with my podcast today May show. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be recording that in Chicago every week starting um like next month. Um, you know, just me and conversations

with you know, different influential people from from the culture. Um, you know, giving people a chance to hear more of my point of view on things, more of my experiences. You know. Even doing this like here tonight and the things I'm doing now is somewhat new for me. I was always like more of a behind the scenes type of person. I didn't really want to get the you know, the attention or the limelight. You know. I was just about building the business. Um. But you know, it's a

different world now. UM, I feel like, you know, I have an important story of what I've done that needs to be known and documented in the past, but also you know, an important voice that I think you know, people will you know benefit or enjoy hearing in a lot of different you know ways through the podcast launch as well. Um. Then you know, on the scripted side, I want to talk about the two projects we have going so far. UM. One is, uh, the story of

Unsigned Hype column and the Source and It's dope. Um. That's an eight part series. We will tell you know, the whole back story of the unsigned hypeowers created, how we found these different artists, how they got their record deals, all the people that was working on those situations. That's coming out great. And then the other one, UM, is the Larry Hoover story. You know, we're doing his life

story as a ten part series. Now. This is the first time that the family has ever participated in the telling of his story, so it's not gonna be one of the you know, same old story about Larry Hoover that you have ever gotten out to have conversations with. Larry used to call my house. Really if you back in, Uh, probably about to call me at my house for those conversations like new his son. Yeah, it's back when I was trying to start their little clothing line they had

get prisoner. Yes, so yeah, I used to talk to him all the time. He used to just call me and we would have this conversations. Good conversations, right, that's that's that's dope, man, because what they did to him as a as a travesty man, it's like, um, and I think what our government does sometimes man, people that are influential, because see, I don't think he got put

in jail for actual crimes. I think he got put it sent away for the influence that he has because and in the politics, I mean, he's the only person in our culture, you know, in the urban culture, any kind of you know, black gangster type figure that's ever really been serious about politics. They don't want you to

know about about that. What he was doing that twenty first century and vote, you were making an impact out there like politically, and it was it was growing and you know, yeah, yeah, he definitely man because you know, you kind of need um. I truly believe if he was out a lot of this stuff because you can't prevent a hundred percent of everything. But I think if he was out, he has enough respect that some of

the stuff that's happened in Chicago wouldn't be happening. Yeah, I think I think it would be a positive thing. And it would definitely you know, I've got to know his family really well, and um, you know, he deserves to be out and for the time with his family. So hopefully what we're doing and telling his story in a really accurate, in depth way like we're doing, you know, it's gonna contribute to that. Um. Yeah, you get principle. Oh yeah, they won't let him out. I mean, he

has every legal right to be out now. You know, he's qualified on a few different basis with reform laws that have a lot of people on his case, all are out and you know they've kept him, you know, because they have a vendetta really and where he's where he's based at James, it's like on the inside of a mountains some ship like that in Colorado super Max. Yeah, he's like instead of and uh, the UNI bomber. I

was out there. I didn't get this to go in, but I was out there a couple of months ago with his family when they were, and that gives you an idea, man, of what they think about him. Man, they put him in the super Max with El Chapo and the Union Bomber. They're saying he's a threat because he can possibly point those guys in the direction that they need to go in and see. Let's what I tell people a lot of times from at the time. There's no King of l A, ain't no shot called

right here. Motherfucker's don't give a funk. They don't respect the motherfucker right. But maybe if it was that one person everybody was just scared of funk up ship wouldn't be the way it is. You know, you always have to have somebody's willing to that's um, not only feared man love, but respected, you know what I mean. Because it's a difference. Somebody's scared of you, they's gonna kill you, straight up. You know, you get killed by somebody, somebody

scared of you. Um, when people respect you, it's a whole different thing, you know. And I think he has the respect to where a lot of this stuff wouldn't be happening going down, Um, And I think that's dope that you're doing that. Man. So how many how many shows that you have total now on the network to launch it off, So we'll be looking for more. We're already playing on the next next round. Sounds good? Yeah yeah.

Can you check us out on all the podcasts apps on a break beat Media YouTube and you know our website breakbeat media dot com. We got this show, Trapping Anonymous. I don't want to forget about that. Trapping Anonymous is a dope ass show. Yeah, it was actually out. He was doing it independently for a while as an audio podcast and it got picked up by title. Yeah. I remember that kid. I actually tried to sign him when he first Like this is when I was young with

Digital Soapbox. It was one of the most like it was some dope ship man, it was some real dope ships, crazy, it's crazy interviews. And so now now we made a visual version with him. Yeah, you know you blur out the person's face and voice. It was Trapping Anonymous. He really talking to motherfucker? Was this getting it in? And I heard that ship? I was like, what the hell was this ship? I'm saying, I'm gonna try to see

if I'm gonna find it. Is he released it? Yeah? Yeah, not not the new ones we're gonna release, you know, probably also in the next few weeks that's coming. Because he's from New York, right, Yeah, because I know he it was some other ship. But yeah, he does. He does some good ship. I'm glad you picked him up, man, and if you yeah, we go, like, definitely we can have him on here anytime. He's more than welcome to though. He's more than welcome to come on here. You're like him, yeah, Chris, Yeah,

you're like him. Man. So as far as your podcast network, are you guys doing independently? Are you partnered up with some people? It's it's independent. Um. I have you know the one business partner I think I mentioned from DC my man, his name is Kendrick Ashton. Um, he and our partners. We have some strategic partners. Uh this company named DAX that's owned by Global Media in UK taxes. Yeah THATX is dope nipped him. Yep, yep. They do uh,

you know, audio advertising sales. So they're helping us bringing all the answers and ads on the podcast on the audio side. And the pr X is also a partner of PRX is a really well respected podcast publisher. They got another dope podcast is over there to where they go talk to the brothers in jail and they let them tell their stories. They actually had her co host

for the longest. James was a guy that was locked up and they was doing this show like remotely and he was her co host and they tell different people it's locked up and I forget the name of the podcast. I could remember, Yeah, I can't remember it, man, But it's a dope podcast, man, And it's so much That's

the thing about the audio. That's why I'm so like, I don't know if you want to hear earlier, I was telling Brown leading Mike's where they had because I'm really big on sound because I have to remind people first and foremost we are a podcast. The video stuff is cool, but we're a podcast. You know. We got a lot of truck drivers. Shout out to my truck drivers out there that's listening to the show driving down

those freeways bringing us to step across the country. We get a lot of love from the trucks drivers, man. From the truckers, you know, people in their cars, people that people who just just stuck period and their cars, the vehicles. The prisoner tell me like man, I listened to y'all all the time. Yeah, yeah, shot shot to flip. Yeah, we got a guy. We actually got some truckers. It's about to start putting our logos on the side of things like I'm talking about, like on the house. They're

just showing love. Man. And that's the great thing about communication. That goes back to communication to have a message, you know, like now Like back then, it wasn't cool for the CEO, for the boss to have, you know, to be in front. But now with this right now, you almost have to because you have a message. You gotta get out and can't nobody tell you a story better than you can't home. But right you know you feel what I'm saying. No

Nona be out here. Yeah. So are you guys doing anything? Um, Like as far as your podcast, you guys got people from all around the country now yeah, yeah, I mean I got two podcasts go on in Chicago, I got one in Philly to New York, one in Atlanta, and uh, I'm out here the next couple of days trying to close up another situation out here. So I have one or two shows going in l A soon as well. For sure, for sure, Man, anything that we can do to blop you man with that, you know going on,

you partnered up with some good people. Mainy thing we can do to help Man, You're friends. So yeah, and you know, like I said, IVE been watching what you guys have been doing with this show and what you were doing with the network and everything like that. So I'm glad we got a chance to connect the show. We'll we'll find some things we can do together going forward. No, for sure, Man, for sure. You know one of the things I want to ask you, Man, we're doing this

podcast network. Your last project, man, was pretty big. Everything you've done has pretty much been successful. You understand what I mean. Do you ever feel any pressure going into this man? Like, Man, I'm gonnadu to start the source Man, this podcast, we gotta crack off. I mean there's a little bit, but I I just you know, I'm just

I just believe in what I've been doing. You know, I've always believed in you know, my my vision for these companies that I've been building, but this is one that, um, you know, I just feel like this can be bigger than anything that I've ever done before. I just think for a lot of reasons, hip hop is bigger than it's ever been. You know, it's now spans three generations. Um.

So the size of the audience globally everywhere is enormous. Um. You know, we're at this kind of you know point in the media business where like the playing field is kind of leveled. You know, these big companies don't have the kind of strategic advantages that they once did. Um. You know, there's a lot of you know, we have a technology side to break Beat that we've been developing, and so next year, you know, we'll planned to uh, you know, release some you know technology things, great beat

app that kind of situation. You know, it's part of the future plans growth of the company as well. So you know, the podcast network is really the building block. Um. But podcasting, it's just it's such a such a powerful medium right now. I mean it's it's the highest advertising rates of any form of media right now. I mean, it combines, like, you know, so many different things. I just think it has a a big future and a big upside because a lot of people, you know, still

aren't regular podcast consumers. So yeah, and even if they don't think they are, they are. It's rolling into it because um, you know, one thing I had to really because I've been doing this for so long. I was really just like against those things at first, the cameras and stuff like that. I wanted to keep it all audios. So the first fifteen episode is against the chronicles. As far as a visual, it ain't no visual. It was

all audio, you know what I mean. They still some of our most listened to episodes, but I think now as we deal with this generation, that more visible advent of these things right here the video was, you know, the video was introducing a lot more people because I was just kind of checking out. One day, I was messed around with the fans on YouTube and I kept dude inbox men and said, Man, how come y'all always just released five minute clips to the show. I want

to listen the whole thing, I said. I've been for a few years and you always just put out five minutes. Why don't y'all do the whole show? I said, Bro, I sent them the link to Apple. I said, you can go listen to all these in futh right there. He didn't know nothing about those, but that's what I'm saying. So you think about it this like it's you have to put it out on all fourmats now or you may miss something. Man, So what's the u r L

to the website to break the beats man media dot com. Yeah, and man, for all those fans out there, don't be sending my man to know no um no trashy links man in your podcast. Make sure they're tight for sending this to dude the invented the source. Looking. We're looking man, looking for new shows, new talent, you know what I mean? Um? So yeah, please you know at what we're doing and you know, let us know what what what you got going on? Um, I mean, we're not doing music per

se yet, as you guys know, it's hard. You know, it's kind of hard to incorporate music in the podcasting because you don't have the licensing you know, in the the place. Um, you know, so I'm looking at different ways. You know that we will incorporate music obviously. We have guests, you know,

we will have shows. You know. Funny Marco's got a bunch of you know, different artists that are guests on his show, and we're about to start bringing in some guests for Don't Call Me White Girl and things like that, and those would be platforms where you know new artists, even my show. You know, I'm gonna try to figure out how I can highlight up and coming talent um you know, within my podcast. I think that would be dope. Man. Well, man,

we really appreciate you having you on here. Man, and man, you come back anytime though, when you come back anytime, man, you know what I'm saying, dope conversation. Man. But that's it, man, it's another episode a Gangster chronicles man in um. Yeah, yea. We ended like that, man, and I'm glad to be hell. Yeah, we had a hyagus. I want to tell y'all we're back on hiatus. So we're back off hiatus, so y'all can stay at my inbox. We are back on. Like

we can't take a break. We had to take a break, y'all. People stop worrying, stop wondering. I was getting them. Yeah, I had a motherucker cussed me out. He said, Man, still you suck him up. Man. They always have me like they know you're sucking up. Dog. I got this one dude, man shot. I ain't gonna put his name out there so everybody blow him up. But he's one of those fans that from the very beginning he kind

of went with me. Then when we went through the split, he had his opinions about this stuff, and he said, well, you actually don't. You want a good job, man, keep it going. But then if something happened still, you gotta tighten that shut up, tell whoever that he was breathing on the microphone, and cut that ship out. So I'd like to call him the solid engineer. Shout out to my dude, man, but we out of here. Man. Well, that concludes another episod older the gainst the Chronicles podcast.

Be sure to download the i Heart app and subscribe to The Gangster Chronicles podcast. For Apple users, find a purple mic on the front of your screen, subscribe to the show, leave a comment and rating. Executive producers for The Gangster Chronicles podcast and Norman Steve James McDonald, Aran m c A. Tyler. Our visual media director is Brian White, and our audio editors Taylor Hayes. The Gangster Chronicles is a production of I Heart Media Network in the Black

Effect Podcast Network. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you're listen to your podcasts. So He's rushing