EP 124: The Sammy "The Bull" Gravano Episode

James and Bi Staires from the streets. Hello, Welcome to the Gangster Chronicles podcast, the production of My Heart Radio and Black Effect Podcast Network. Make sure you download the I Heart Apple and subscribe to the Gangster Chronicles. For my Apple users, hit the purple mica on your front screen. Subscribe to the Chronicles to leave a five star rate in the comment. We like to welcome everyone to another

episode of the Gangster Chronicles podcast. Nombout my parties, Jack, Jill and you know America for the long the longest time has been in factuated with gangsterism, whether from crips blood to the Italian mafia, and today we have one. You can almost say the face of the mafia, right he say the bull. That's the pleasure, is all Lars. I'm gonna start off the top and just get it

out the way. We want to say the epitome of gangster. Yeah, definitely, League, and I have you and James in the same room, as you know, I think you guys that I don't listen comparison. No, Kobe and Jordan here, don't compare us that. No, listen what I'm saying, bro, Your first melodies are a lot of like you know from you know me looking at him, you know some of the way you were raised and came up, some of the principles you had. You gotta see a lot of the same ideology. So

we had a little better looking than him. But you know, I want to get this question off the way because I filter your pain when you heard the taps from Giancatti. What was going through your mind when you heard him on the wire taps? Well, first of all, anybody could get caught on the white attack, so it didn't bother me too much. It was stupid. He talked about things we did years ago. When you get away with the crime. You don't go bulliting about years later. And but he

did and he got caught. That didn't bother me too much. There was a lot of lines on those tapes, and that bothered me a little bit. I didn't understand why there was a lot of complaining about me. But towards the end, what he did is he met with the lawyers. The tapes were so bad. All the lawyers, the biggest lawyers in New York said, you can't beat this case. The tapes of plan his day. You're dead. Look to

take a play, look to do something. So he devised an idea of what to do, is that he was going to use the tapes control the lawyers to tell the jury is you could hear the tapes. John got his complaining against about this animal. It's him killing everybody taking over doing this. John is complaining about him, hoping that the jury would convict me and set him free.

So when this idea came up being him that I was in prison whatever already eleven months waiting for trial, I said, John, is that what you really want to do. The cops, the ages, they're our enemy, but they're doing their job. They gotta put the bad guys away were the bad guys. That's their job. Me and you were tight with their brothers, were friends. You're backing them up to me. That's a rap move. So I told him, you really want to do that? And he told me,

saying me, you gotta take the weight. It falls like that. It looks like that. I'm the boss, and the boss is gotta be free. You're sure you wanted others? Yeah, and I got in touch with the government. I flipped that flip side and went my own way. Basically, that's what happened. I've been arrested all my life, murders, double murders, somebody committed, somebody didn't commit, never flipped, and they always asked me that I hated that, but that I was

so close. It was like my brother, my closest person to me, just threw me to the dogs. I wouldn't let it happen. So when when he tried to pretty much force you to get you to take the whole rap and he get away with it, so that made you feel like I'm nothing but a pond. Now you're using me. So that makes you feel like, Okay, what if I flipped the strip and say, funk that I ain't taking a rap for that, great great point, great point, because I'm not on the tapes talking. He's on the

taps talking. So if you want me to flip the script, I would say that easily. Brother, you're on the fucking tape, your care talking. You want me to take the fucking weight. You should be telling me, Sammy, you're not even on these tapes. You could beat this fucking case. Bill gets a separation, separate trials. If you can beat the case, it ain't on them fucking taps talking about it. I am, so you should take the way. If it was me, I would take the weight. I'm on the tape, I'm

doing the talking. I'm the one that created this indictment. I'm gonna cut you loose. You loose if you can. It's like they're the enemy, not us. Whoever wins wins amongst us. We gotta fight for each other. But I can cut you loose. After the case, I cut you loose, not that I'm gonna may help. The government can pick you so I could get out. I think that self explains everything. And then some people say it's full of ship. But there's so many documents, so many people who flipped

after this and it's it's documented. It's history now, it's documented history. So you know that's the thing where John Gotti. Now do I hate him? People saying there's that new thing? If he was out and now everybody to kill I should have made the fucking app But I don't hate him. We will attach that the hip. I feel sorry how he died like a door him prisoner. We played chess. He was playing checkers and I played chess. I checked me in. He made the wrong fucking moves. I was

never pieced all my life. My raptur is as long as anybody's. And they always asked me, Sammy, will you get no time? And even he was in, I cooperated. I been for the last year's ten different cases. I've been a witness for the defense against the government to get people out. What guy cooperates him does that too. They got to hate me for that. So when I got in trouble in Arizona with an ecstacy case taking

over Arizona Ecstasy, they smash me. I lent them money to buy exstacy and I got the twenty fucking years. It was payback for the government. We got him and I got slammed. Even in that case, they asked me to text like it's her. The paper said absolutely not. I don't want to use the language I didn't use. But I had said, no, Gus, the chronicles use it, you can use it. That's what the people love, right. So that's the way it is. That's what happened with

John Gotti. Stuff like that. So we aren't supposed to have no heavy ship. But no, go ahead, bro, but I know normally gonna ask me no bad questions because he goes I got a gun on little thing. He already told me, told them when they pulled it. I pulled in the parking lot, I said, now let's send me run. Before I started my daughter, he was this big guy. And then when I sit him talking to you,

I'm like, I'm not gonna meet my gun. Yeah, but you know the thing is with saying me like he was just saying that, Um, you guys are so much identical from the up bringing standpoint, and you know, something's real interest. And I was having this thought the other night. I said, you know, a few twists in your youth, you may have turned off to be one of the

biggest Fortune five hundred leaders in this country. You know what I mean, who would say that she wouldn't have been the next you know Bill Gates or you know, big captain of industry or whatever. And you grew up in Vincent Hurst, Brooklyn, right bank. How was your youth coming up? Well, what really started to be off that wrong path is I'm just section So I have a back then when I was a kid, and to a lot of years ago, they didn't even know what that was.

They just showed you a fucking stupid that's it. And then who wished any timeline? So I'm growing up. The most I got was an eighth grade education and I was not quit school. They threw me up. They made my parents come in. If you don't sign him out, he's gonna you know, it's bullshit jail for youth. So that started me off. I was in a gang and the a's in the ice Brooklyn. It was swamped with mafia dudes and they were my idol looking up at them. They were the man um and I grew that way.

When I was nineteen, I got drafted into the military during the Vietnam War. I was trained to kill. I never went to Vietnam. Um, you needed a certain amount of time. When my name came up, only had eight months left. They said no, you have to have a year, and I never went. I came out. I hooked up with a gang right away. I was on the ramps. Life life, gangy life was a bunch of stupid kids. Stealing, caused stilling. There's still in that fights all kinds of ship.

It wasn't that vicious of a game. We four it would kick ass. We didn't kill nobody, but we didn't shoot people. But it was as tough as it could be. So I got out of the on me at twenty one years old, and I was back in the game at twenty three years old. You couldn't do nothing in my neighborhood if you weren't connected, Three or four or five guys would come to your row. You opening that club fucking like at the piece, so you couldn't below. So at twenty three years old, I hooked up with

the Combo family as an associate. I liked the guy showed his spireau tough guy X fighter, and I liked what he said. I'm never gonna write to you. I've never been a backstad. Whatever I answer you to do, I've already done, and I'll do it with you. So it wasn't somebody given owners. It was music for my fucking ears. Even to belong to a family. Music to my ears. I had a good mother, father, legitimate people. I'm far from stupid. When I was in the in

the mafia, it's common knowledge. I owned six construction companies. I mean I had the power of the mafia. I used the unions. I did all kinds of things black. I just asked me about our relationship with black people. In the movies, they portray it one way. The reality is me and the people around me, and the people I knew were like this. They dealt numbers on a small land. We doubt numbers and the bigger and we

were the bank. So when they went to you know, get rid of the too much work on too much money on the number, they would give it to Ower Banking. There was dropping beld with blacks. We did everything with that not a fact. I'm gonna give you a quick story title my captain and I wasn't made yet. I'm still just a tough kid. With the game being no family, I would switched from the Columbus to the game. You know, he said, there's a smooth little church on the block

where the black people go. Yeah. Yeah, the kids are breaking balls over that. Go over to read these kids the riot act them all. They're good people. And I went down. I told to the kids. The reverend or a priest whatever he was, gets in touch with me, Sammy, thanks, thank you so much. I heard what you're dad, this and that the other thing. And he invited me to go to church. I never waited to about charge, but he was a nice guy. I said, let me go.

I willed. I went there that day. They had, you know, a mask's like everybody else. And it was cool. And I left and I was shaking his hand goodbye, and he says, if you like to make a donation, we got a football team. They're all black. Back then it was separated. If you like to make a donation. I had just previously made a score. I had a park for momy. I said, yea, I'll make a donation. I said, what are you gonna buy with it? He says, football. Yeah,

they don't have outfits. They don't have this, they don't have that. How much does it cost for the whole thing to buy all of them uniforms? And stuff agetting the number. It wasn't la much. It was a number, but dock then it wasn't a big number. What it would mean now? I gave it to and uh. Title taught me the difference in caring about people and what they're like and what they do. It must have been a week after that. I'm on the corner with my friends. A car pulls up. Four or five six big black

guys got out. Hey, Samy, we got let it. I don't know what the funk that was. It came over and this guy says, you took care of our uniforms. Chopolin told me, I mean, don't you didn't make a donation you we could. We all got new uniforms and we could play anybody ever Fox which you need somebody give me a call, okay. I shook his head, went away. But that's what growing up to us. It wasn't like

the movie. They were part of us in a neighborhood. Now, of course, there was some racism hearing it, and people thought a certain way, but that's everything. When Italians came in, they didn't like Italians. Some people don't like Italians. Some people don't like black some people don't like Jews. Some people don't like something that exists. But the biggest racism I ever saw in my life is when I went into the military. I knew about it in New York,

you know, there's mad all that blue ship. But when I went in and in the first place, I went with the four Tacks in South Carolina, in the Sifour, I've seen racism like I never seen in my life. And uh I even told story. I did a video about it. There was a guy from the Bronx. He was a black guy, and we had KP dooty, so went online and went serving there's big long spoons. Fucking hillbillies came. Why. I hear him telling him the black guy,

hey boy, do this, Hey boy. I knew that would bought him, so look didn't seem to bought him at all. They came to me and guy put out a track and I would say, serving beans or something, and I'm putting it in his thing. That's tripping over and I stopped. Hey boy, when I'll tell you to stop, that's when you stopped. It's calling me boy now and he throws all the fucking food on the count and I whappered right in the fucking head, the double kid. The guy

behind him is his frindal. He hits me. They had metal tracks almost not me over black eye dropped right the funk over side phone blows. I get my senses. I jumped over me and him a fucking fright and have to join. We're on the MP's call, sitting on the floor and uh, big guy comes in, big black guy, big heavy set black guy. You like helping black people. Boy, Now, I wasn't stupid. He thought I was helping the black guy, who wasn't that way at all. The black guy was

helping being so I took advantage of that. So I said that when we from New York and we think a little different, and he went, that means So I got away. The black guy said and said, you used that situ. So I mean, I don't know. You know, you see these mafia movement and stuff, and uh, it's really not that way, not in my neighborhood, not in my lifetime. We had good relationships with them. I did time with flat hat Nickels. I talked to a bout him in the video. A sweetheart of a guy that's

a big time games, a big time. My My question is um, what what was the transition that you went like you said he was part of the Colombo family, being went to the game, being on family. Why was the transition the transitions they was, they started using me more and more. The boss of this through a captain comment in Persico, send him for me all the time. Shorty's brother Ralph had a son, and he gets into an argument when his brother, Shorty, why the fund you

keep taking Sam of there? I want my son to go there. So they opened the books and he gets made I want my son, not him, and surely said, listen, I ain't brand him there. He's asking family and he's doing whatever the funk he's told. So how to shut

me down? How to stop this rising starts? He makes up this fucking Bulson story about a guy who was with us who got killed, bumped into his wife in a place where I was with seven eight guys a week or two after he was killed in a in a in a bank price and I saw that when I got it, and it's annoyed to share. The abused a little bit, and uh he brought it back that I abused huh and hit huh because I wanted to have sex when I was human though he twisting the story.

But he didn't realize when he twisted the story that there was five, six seven guys there in the vote with me when it happened. So when I went home, I was married a ready. They he called out my wife and his head. You know her husband is dead. He tried to bang Ralph free wrong his wife. So when I got home, I said, this safe is very technical. Tell me exactly. He said, that's exactly what he said. I got a gun and I went to this house. I was gonna killing run at the blow away, but

he wasn't home. And when I turned around to go back to my car had to come behind me by my ass. She saw it and she told him. So they knew where I went there to kill him. When I was called in, they talked to me that the same we're gonna do. I told him the story the best I could, and I said I was gonna kill him. Told what he did. They gave me right, Actually, bosses gave me right. I said, what he did, you did the right fucking thing, but not in his house in front of his wife. I said, I was born in

that area, but I was gonna kill him. So he said, he's short. His brother with we're not can allowed us. We know we can't keep us together. So there's people talking for you from the Gambino family. Bosses up on top, and decision was switching. They come from the Colombo family into that get a family, and that's how I wind

up with this old man title captain. And the man was to me, he actually looked like my father was the shortest my father, and he was a sweetheart, and it to me he was my father something like he was well respected. Um that don't bother you. Like, loyalty is supposed to be everything. You know what I'm saying, and I think listening to you and and the way I lived my life, I believe loyalty is everything. You

will go far with loyalty. But then you have people that hate or resent what you're doing and how other people perceive you. So now they started to hate you, Like I got this a lot, But did you ever feel like they've wanted you out because of who you was and the things that you did? And not only didn't did they want to be where you was at but and and you was in a way pretty much of them coming a lot, So did you feel like that. There was no loyalty with these people, and now I

gotta be a different way. I didn't feel that with everybody. I felt it with certain people. When you're betraying me, I'll betraying. I'll do any how fuckings are killing and do anything to come at you. But if you show me loyalty, and there was a lot of loyal I don't want to put people down. There was a ton of loyal people, and I always showed respect and loyalty everything I've done in my life. That's how I've gotten respect.

When I started doing this social media stuff, when it at a prison four years ago, I said, everybody's gonna break my ass off sucking remarks. Bullshit that happens a little bit everybody in their mother I got a naming nine point two percent positive ready one and people from New York, I won't mention Name's going to help the people and get in touch with me. Italian guys, Mafia guys were still mafia guys, Black guys, Hispanic guys. Guys.

I did time in prison. I mean, so I feel as people getting in touch with me who I was from the forty fifty years ago. How bit if a guy, could you have but been if guys forty years ago called you up now I didn't know the whole story, and they saying me, how you feel that I ain't doing I'm watching your videos. I'm watching yourself come down. I did a couple of interviews with what the hell is his name? That the black guyed fat school batman,

and I was asked to do that. I did it with pistol pete, you know, and every time I was asked, helped. That's what I do. But if you're kind of at me sideways, bro, I told guys in prison, I'm not a big guy, a small guy physically. I'll fight like a backstad but I'm small. But I told guys in prison when I got into big arguments with a guy real big, I'm telling you killed me, motherfucker, because I'm telling you what I'll do. I'm not taking this fucking

b I'll come back tonight when you're sweeping. I'll stick a fucking shanking your fucking trunk. I'll guarantee you. And uh, that's my philosophy. I treat people good. I respect people. We'll talk about black people, my granddaughters by by racial Uh shold my daughter. My shows. A black guy, I would say, hey, people get out. I welcomed him. They named Dave. He's pretty well a little black guy. So I don't do anything when any of that bull shooting out against people. I tell people. You know a lot

of people say, we'll stop talking to kids. I'm not gonna talk that kids. I'm not gonna tell them what to do. Here's what I'm gonna tell them. You want to make money, you want to go stay over, you want to do some drugs, bro, here's what I did. I did twenty two years and fucking prisons. I was shot twice, two different times. So you're gonna wind up dad or in prison. So enjoy yourself. Do what the funk you want. But my advice is there's a lot of easy money to make money. Well we're doing right

now in this room. There's guys Will Cameras who's editing is a normal, is a powerful name. From what I hit you, guys are all respected. There's a way to do it, funk going in prison. Definitely going to prison. And you know, one of the biggest things I see h always, like I told you, you and James remind me of a lot of LIFs living next stories. Your move came up young and sixuuations to where it looked

like you as kind of misunderstood and where nobody helping you. Guys, you're mixing the dix Letsia right, you had to a few teachers asked right, Well, there was one teacher, he was the principal. You know, we were playing Oki and these cops caught us. They brought us into the school. I was still a little drunk, and uh, the guy, the principal was talking to the other teachers and you know that's how these people are, see how they are these grease balls. Now, it's like using the N word

to a black guy ball. But it doesn't bother me at all because like rappers use the N word, Italians used, don't bother me grease balls the end. So I listened to him. Then he's swalking and I said, listen, bro hey, shut up. And then he continues talking and he says, say, day, it's the upbringing these grease bulls. Now, when he said it that way, I took it that he's talking about my mother and father, legitimate people. He's putting their down now for the nationality or race it. Do you want

to call and I got up. I said, let me ask you. Of course, I just wiped the fucking shot and I broke his fucking draw and I got thrown out and I put it put into six D school. So I just went through a rough life. When I was dealing with construction, I used to work in the hood all the time. The housing projects we would do. You know, they would get contracts and I would go in and do the jobs and work in those neighborhoods.

And I would work with black contractors, you know, they had I was working with a Jewish contract and he had trouble in the neighborhood because while they're building and they got a gate around the building, but at night, the black people go in and robbed, rob them blind. He said, what well I do send me it's not what are you gonna do? Go down at night? Stop it? We're going to stop it? Yeah, how are you gonna stop?

I'll say, I went there. It was a black I can't think because his names are bulleds, a wad name. And I grabbed him. I said, bro, you're got it. You're the man in the neighborhood right, yeah, whom My name is Sami Himity Ball what you're doing is crazy. Bro, this is your neighborhood. I'll let this contractor pay you for security, legitimately, put your friends around, let the neighborhood know this is your job. Highest some of them and I'll get you to contract. You'll do that, yeah, but

I'm not doing it just for you. That's gonna make me strong with the contract. I'm gonna be honest with you. If I could stop you, and I can help him with you and yours, and now I could help him with this minority groups in these neighborhoods, that's making me stronger. But you got guys who know how to paint, right, Yeah, of course, then I get you security and paint the contracts, open up a business, and I hope you. So I

went back and I talked to the guy. He says, who, because we we got somebody who has God dogs good good, Try that first and we'll tell you what's gonna happen. They're gonna beat up to God, they're gonna eat the dog, and they're gonna rob your job. Blood. So if you could do it my way, you can do it your way. How much is this gonna cost me? It's gonna cost whatever the fuck A normal contractor is for security, a normal contract for pain? They they could do those things.

I stand behind it. They'll do it, and nobody will touch your job no more. I want a little lecture for that guy, all right, Sandy, I could put it on your contract when you pay the Yeah. And I don't know how many jobs I would him for you. If I a job and puss in the spot and I was having problems, even the union pressure couldn't get this guy to budget, I would get in touch with

be a favor, get a bus. All of those guys with the bad daddas and the nights, they go down to the job and create a problem when we work making money that way, there's all kinds of ways to make money, legitimate. Shooting me, trying to killing each other. I look at this thing into and you once against me over there, took a brother brother, too much of us. I mean, you killed each other. Bro. People seeing Sammy and when they hear your name, they you know, a

dootmatic you think of this monster. But sitting there listening to you, you have a lot of people even with being Sammy the book, you know what I mean? Yeah, So where's the bad guy? I want to talk to the best sent me. Well, let's gun called me and motherfucker's called us. What do you say my thing is? But when you say that's that was the way that y'all had it back then. Was like the power of the respect and the and the and the mouthpiece to to negotiate was better than the power of the pistol

for the way. Oh absolutely, Listen, when you got certain powers and you use your head. Uh, look what normal is doing. I mean I don't know hold the all and but I hear it about him all over the place. That's where I'm here. And you guys, But if you use your head and talking to these kids, not you personally, but if you use your head and you do things, you can make money. Listen, people love people who got

balls and brains together. They'll love you even more. People fear you because you're nasty and you've got balls and you're using it up way, but use the balls and brains in a positive way. They were only still fee you, but they'll love you. The hardest combination to get is when a guy loves, fears and respects you. It's a hard combination. I met with Mark Woolburg I met with my said Mark, and he's the greatest guy. I really liked Mark bug Willburger Heart, I said, how do you

do this? Wow? Every time I go to a doctor nurse, So you know, Mark Woolburger, I said, every woman named the country wants to bang you and every guy wants to beat you. How did you get those two groups to love you at the same time. And he's a perfect example. He was a bad boy growing up. I hope I don't get in trouble with Mark, but he was a bad boy growing up. Then he rapped and he did something else. Then he did movies, rest this issue, and he's a great guy. So you could use those things.

Norm's example, your example, your example, the people in this room. I mean, I get some of these people in Hollywood. I don't get a reception like this, right, I mean, and that way. I don't get that. You know he's gonna educated talk, right. You know, you guys are doing the right thing. I hope the show up takes off and goes triple with this, if that's possible. But it was really going me for one. I mean, I'm like like, Wow,

I'm listening to you because I grew up just like that. Um, I thought being the bad guy was the right way. Now that I'm older, I see being a good guy. I get more out of being honest about myself and about where I live, and I'm and I'm reaping the benefits from it, and I just being humble with ain't nothing wrong with it. It don't make you, we need it, don't make you this punk and man I'm in. I mean your life inspired mine because I'm listening to you

and I'm like, damn, I that's what I did. Like I used to tell the guys in the Motorcycle Club, I ain't gonna do nothing that that. I ain't gonna ask you to do nothing that I haven't done. Uh, you know, I'm the boss. I'm taking off first. You know what I'm saying. If I don't fight, we don't have to. So I'm listening to you and it's like, wow, I mean maybe all of our life it's pretty much

the same thing. Because he has to re repeat itself and wow, your storious wet we Honestly, we have people like Ralph Spiro trying to pull me down to get ahead. I was like, I'm like a step step black. He wants to step by me and get ahead. We have people doing that right now. I see society. Right now, I look at society and I see things that are going on, and all of these things trying to make one race against the other. To me, I'm a shoot dunk, I'm a gangster. I see it. That's so clear to be.

Maybe the other people they don't see it. I see it that if they want people black and white people to hate each other and fight and everything's racist today, why I look at it? Why where they get that? You know, Becausian black, I be doing great sports people, singers, entertainers.

Hip hop took over the old book music, and why are they doing that the same fucking thing to have us fight, hold us to funk down while these rebbal elites fucking wind up with all the cash and we're not looking at them because we're busy fighting, busy bigger than amongst each other. You know, I've heard you mentioned hip hop a couple of times, and that's the thing, um, Like I said, gangsterism has influenced the whole world, like right, and you being a major rapper, major figure, pioneer, now

you know source of hip hop industry. You remember back in the nineties when everybody started naming itself after Italian monsters. Monsters. Um, you had a million godies around, We had a million compouns, you know, you know what I mean? They were names after the notorious gang. How did you guys feeling the jay limited for all these rappers naming itself go and all this other stuff. Well for me, and then then heard my name in a couple of hipps probably too much.

When I worked out. I love that be to work out. There's no better music to me to work out. I mean, I'm not gonna be hip hopping around on a little the places. Especially that beat motivates me when they work out. You know, when I was young, my son and my daughter noticed people bull time here ull time of course, okay bull time do them And somebody had come to me, my daughter, the son, somebody and said, you know, you can get involved with them doing what and pop it

or whatever. They will make it. Back then, I think they were the original almost I said, no, what the fucking mistake I made to kick right up the spoor was times? But so they were around, and they were right from my neighbor that I believe they. I believe they were right from Cody own and by right yea, so they were right from Tony And that's what I'm saying.

So all this bullshit that we didn't get long or of course there was an arguments and price there were always is, but it's not It wasn't that racial when don't get black people like they're making and that nothing happens, you know, because they're telling was heavily involved in the music industry back yes, absolutely, to what extent? How much con trove do you think that they know? They had

tremendous control. They had these music stations that was his name, something Freed or something, and they could get your record played on their music station, you know, so they had connects. You guys control radio. When the resolustry, I think in a lot of ways it probably steel is about of control because those contracts they're giving these keys. So it's always been like that as far as the music is

business is concerned. You know, we didn't control a lot of stuff back in the days as far as the record business, publishing and royalties and all that stuff. So you heard me speak on that a lot about what was owned as far as masters and who would do whatever you could do a record deal and only get too per the record, and you did everything. I mean, that was just the times it was in. And today

you're still going on like that. You see people getting into these three sixty deals where I advance you a little money, but I'm gonna taken ownership, you know. So I don't think nothing has changed to this day. It's different hands. That's that's always doing. James saying no way, you know, you know what, and I keep saying that you guys are kid experience. As I'm listening to this sound like some ship James and saying exactly that sounds like some stuff Peo would say. And I love as

you said one of your things, you go everywhere. You always had your guns right the first time out? Yeah, I did. I always had it the first time. I not not any more of the times have changed. When I cut out in uh ninety five, uh fairly part of ninety six. Yeah, I was held all the time. All that's on because the times were different that we couldn't come. I knew they were gonna come, but I was ready and uh I was just gonna, you know, will ended in the streets, will do it. But now

the times are completely different. You know a lot of guys sacked them off. They don't kill people no more. They don't do a lot of things. So what happens. And now I know a lot of cops and and and FBI agents. I knew them. I've actually became friends with them. Some of them some of them go guys, some of them are not. But uh, what they said is that when you don't create vicious crimes, their squads that are working on you, when your gang and or whatever it may be, they go down, they focus on

the worst of the worst. So in thirteen they're killing people like they were confetti for no reason at all. I like your bike, they kill you. So the FBI now takes those agents that are working on you. I'm that sage p but you and they put them on down. So God go kill him from so hopeful basically seven three no more. Let spend this energy, this money on him because they're doing a boding crimes, right, So let's focus on them, right, So you're smart in a way

that mafia is backed away from you, don't see. Like when I was younger, and even before I went away, it was like the Jesse James that it was sucking a bouties everywhere every time he turned around. So when you stop that, you're not gonna take that kind of heat, and then you're not gonna get the truly he is the sentences. You're gonna get life for our pro thirty years,

fifty years, and hundred years. You're finished. You don't miss you don't miss that, that that vibe, that that energy that you used to be, you know, to come and if I'm on the gamest right now, on the gangster, but I got my family and my friends, people who wanted to make people. I deal with people I like, I'm cool if I don't like you, said her and you, I get the funk away from I don't know aboutege

shipful is that? And I'm not calling back to prison and I'm not gonna go back to prison because these guys are sucking asshole exactly just like fun. You got to prison for something, right, you know that She's like, my fuckers, you don't have to funk with I'm gonna funk with you and you ain't gotta fun. Let's see just this. Then you're got to do children. But I say, you know you don't spoke nothing about the truth today because with success it brings a certain amount envy and

jealousy that we all had those little texts montherfuers. We don't even know they're saying ship about it. He only just made up the bonus, you know, just I'm talking about saying on him and say, oh and if we ens him the age where most pomers will leave anything that's on the left up. I wanted to see it. I am from Mars and I am want to destroy this climate. The next tree farm was a fall y'all want send me a dollar? I guarantee you if I get a grown enough message that this will be open.

Smother from sending me money will believe it well, because from doing that, I meant get menderstand man, what we have here is the same wool. And then you have other people. You have gangsters by nature that was born to be what Sammy and for you know what I'm saying. And then you have guys that sat around the table and listen to those stairs and they said believe that they are gangsters. Those are what you call the water down catch. You know what I'm saying, that met him

that room. But it is the truth that that sitting there comes they simply a basement with of the things. He's a jerk ball for this is comes up with someone last he's a bitch, say he's never gonna even come to your face and say that he's not gonna come to mind as old as I am need gonna do it. This is a big ship thing. This is gone and the people out there. It happens on this like he said, on this YouTube and all these channels. It's happening because people want to put him down. That

should make you want to listen to him more. Because some jerk office saying that, hundreds of thousands of people saying he's a dry buff that maybe he is, but when this little turmites sitting in their mommy's fucking bason and hitting fucking computer ships, listen to this guy, right, sure, I gotta ask this questions? Not pretty sure because you know the face won't though hopefully well break. You mentioned that you were heavily a ball for the unions. Right yeah,

where the fund is? Jimmy off I was gon said, because anybody so nobody here about these guys that they have a fun with out with this guys think like is he around? And he funked up somehow like he's missing for a reason. He's he's missing for a reason. You know. I'll tell you guys real quick. Jimmy Hoff, Jimmy Hof was a good guy. He was in the unions, he control the unions, and he was with the mafia. He had problems with the Kennedy's and all that ship.

They took it away from they put it away. Now you can't control it. He's commit the felon. They the mafia put somebody else in from Darning while he was in prison. When it came out, they called him, Jimmy, you always work with us, you will, good guy. There's nobody who knows that when you're better than you. So what we're gonna do when I leave this guy in because he's really working, go with us, but you're gonna watch over him. You're gonna be a guy from him

to you to us. And you never really got a piece in the party. Said, that's mort, that's mort. Yeah, you can't do that. He was told, this isn't a candy story. This ain't you know. It's just as well tell you what he said. No, say, you know, I gotta live that county and God knows when he went, but he's gone. He ain't relaxing. He ain't relaxing. Sit and Pema Colas no work. I was because we kind of kept this interview a secret coming up to it,

because that's just what we do. More paceybody, yeah, everything, and it came in first, so we were really excited. We thank you for coming up here. No questions like actually these movies like TV shows like The Sopranos and things like the hot flows of those shows too. We have. The Surprisers was really really well done. There was the Cavalcanti family and Easy. It was one of the ten

or fifteen percent true, any five percent. I'm trying to do a scripted show now, I want to reverse any five percent true, ten ten percent about how they will do what they want. That's number one. Number two. I

don't know if it's in any contracts. So why people spoke to you and you answer your question about Julie off and you may be answered you only one seventeen dollars and sixty guys, stay a little bit boy, you know no, So you know because we watch the shows, Like I said, America's effectually the thing that she's put off the games. You're gonna go for usurprous to mini society, to all these movement of all these the lifestyle, it's

the lifestyle. It's the lifestyle of the underworld. You know, just the being able to, you know, articulate new stuff when you want to do it your own rules. You know, a crew of a family, you know, boys together, you know. I think that's what fascinates people about the gangster lifestyle. It's a different codebody want to be tough. Yeah, I gotta be tough, Like I gotta be tougher than you just because you bigger, mean, don't mean you can vote me.

So I gotta show you that I'm tougher than you. No, they shoot me because the big dudes come off as the ones the mot abilities and whatever. Yeah. So see what I'm saying. So when you're seeing got this show, we got to shoot you type of mother, I gonna be getting shot. Yeah. I think I astual. Yeah yeah, you know, let's see what people might have been some real kid involved that that seemed like it was a

it was fairly accurate. Wasn't accurate at all. That's never There was a lot of a lot of beans ship. There's not about well, we can't wait to you do something so people can see the real way, because if they saw a real they're going to be scared of of trying to live their life. No, I mean, listen, it's good to be. We're all games. We're about to finish this up. I ain't live unless you're fucking feeming. So we're gonna eat together a little bit. And I

took someselfs down down with so many women. It might be called me on that because being retoed, if you know how to handle it and be a blue guy, you know what, the strongest fucking is gonna say something crazy, A fall out of one, No, the most powerful funking one. I had a friend of mine who was dying against in tremendous pain last few days, and I'm gonna see him and it was smiling. When it's smiling about love, you've a pain? Want to get this? Is that nonsunicol m.

I know it's a tremendous paint. I could be cool, block and let me get yourself nervously. Why you smile? All the love I had with my family and my close friends, That's what I'm looking at now. I don't feel love pain, right? I feel love well, that blue men fuck away that blue me right. Love is a short thing. I'm gonna talk about a black hand man want The kid did so much for black people, not

going gun one night, one punch needs fun. He used common sense, he used love and compassion, and they bowed black people from here, dah was it the whole job but a little while love And like you said, you're a tough guy. People look up to you in the neighborhood when you walk, when you're tough guy, they love the ship at you. When you give them opportunities. You call that kid over your trouble a sawbuck in his

pocket or something. And when the favorite if you can help me with my company and you ticket, they love you. That's a true tough guy. You don't have to act like a tough guy. You don't have to fucking do anything crazy. He only has to do that when he has to. But if you do those other things, like I said, this guy's a perfect example. As big as he is fucking six poll americic for almost aids R I ever missed. But he's a sucking sweetheunt. I could I could tell and I and I'm good at character,

you know, he's a heavyweight and you you'll live. You'll I see it, I feel it. I don't even know you up until to that. And whoever that fucking guys the camera beat me and fucking chat, well, I'm gonna figet that he beat me in chest it. They're gonna let that sat it again. I tried to achieve right, he hasn't. I'm I'm gonna get it with this. I got this one last person. I'm gonna give you a date of location, December six five, Smaller Stackhouse podcast around.

I planned it, I put it together, I ran it, conducted it. It's on my podcast. Um, you can hear it the whole story I've been I got nine episodes out in season one. Season two is out right now. I'm no. I got three episodes out and I'm talking about my life sting blood Jack. But what about what's the name of the podcast? I would think, and y'all, y' y'all, y'all gonna put it on my link is not gonna be on a Bunna made page. That was gonna because that was a dumb little false heads to young was

the bush that that's all chime to go? You got in the power because I guess this podcasting. You know, guy was bad with his maid and just doing a bunch of crops. I mean that's you know, it's it's it's it was a sound thing, but like maybe kind of you know quick you know what, it's something or a lot of dances. What you mad? I'm going you want to die a woman? Who I'm truck Now I'll kill with you. Go back a woman, but not in

your fucking ask with your maid. And now your maid is telling your wife, yeah, you go do the issues. Come on, man, go you got a ton of money, a ton of gs. Go do your thing. So it's just abandon him. It's like one more sorry before we go. This is an important one. My guy Tylo used to go to the the next restaurant, neighborhood restaurant with his girlfriend. In the two guys called is goodman and wants you the line you take his wife there. So one night

he was in the restaurant, Tyler's telling man. So I went in there and I'm sitting with my bomana. The door opens up and call again being on Bosters Bold Bosters walks in with five guys. You don't say you know you don't buy a drink, you don't do, not know you're doing is a little about yet Oh that's it. So it's very cheating. So called ambito sits down, Tyler shitting it's for mom. What did the guys get up? Comes over there many time? Why you don't know? It

roses your girlfriend? I don't know by name? Rosy? Yes, sit over here, go sit next to the h in the end. Check it's next to color there. So Carl Van, yeah, you know, tell us toy, you come here up, don't you? Yeah? What's your wife on the cage? Yeah, he says, what do you think these people who work at what they're saying? Nothing? No? Nothing, none? They remember saying nothing. No, of course they're they're friend. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about what do

you mean behind your black put it to this. Oh she's so much better looking than your wife. But I don't know. So you love your wife and you don't even speculate, but her feelings would be what people were talking about being all right, an, let me ask you another question. Talk do you love me? Of course? Of course I love you. I don't I hope that you don't love me like you love your wife. Now that is another words. If you can't show your wife literally fat,

literally shot, well I canna trust you love me. So I heard not easy, a lot of sense. So with that I close. I'm gonna go eat your food and leave. Well. That concludes another episode of Against the Chronicles podcast. Be sure to download the I Heart app and subscribe to The Gangster Chronicles podcast For Apple users, find a purple mic on the front of your screen, subscribe to the show,

leave a comment and rating. Executive producers for The Gangster Chronicles podcast and Norman Steve James mcdownald, Aran m c tyler. Our visual media director is Brian White, and our audio editors Taylor Hayes. The Gangster Chronicles is a ex if I Heart media network in the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.