EP 109: Former Priority Exec Talks Jay-Z to Master P

James and mixtails from the streets. Hello. We like to welcome everyone to this special episode against the Chronicles and I have a very special guest and here with us a night man Um. I had a pleasure of sitting down with music executive Ron Sparling. Ron is working the music industry for almost thirty years. You know, a pro Regulus. He worked with such notable acts as Jay Z and Master Piege No Limit Records. You know his lengthy career.

Ryn has had a hand in selling almost thirty billion records. That's a lot of money generated. Are you doing a later wrong? I'm doing great. Still good to see you, my brother Nicey and you too as well. You know, the first thing I gotta start off with. Man, you know, you got a real impressive resumen. How did you wind up in the business? How did you wind up in music? You know what I'll tell you, steal Um and some

people do know this story. I didn't pick music. Music pick me and I kind of have lived my life like that. But I was working as an hourly employee and UM in a store in St. Louis, Missouri, and UM I ended up in their executive training program and when they promoted me up, it was a discount store called Venture Stores. I ended up becoming an assistant buyer

at corporate and it was in music. So that was the very very early days of me getting a taste that there was something to do in music besides having a mike in your hand or a guitar in your hand. So you just started off. So you started off a retail there, I did. I started off in retail. And I'll tell you a funny story, steal. I got out of college and I thought I was gonna own the world and be president of the world, right because uh, you know, I had a college education. That was unusual

in my family. So I'm all proud of that. And I ended up making three dollars and thirty five cents an hour right after college. So my dreams of owning and and and running the world were a little bit uh shattered at that point. You're a little bit shadow soon. Let let's jump up on the first major job you have about as soon as that Priority Records, right it is. I I had been a buyer in music and the real I had worked for an independent label before that for about a year, but my first real break in

the business was at Priority Records. And I joined Priority Records in very early days in nine actually oh so nineties, So you were when m w A first came and all those guys, yep. I had had an opportunity to work with Easy and Jerry Heller and UH and you know, certainly with Cube and Wren and Yella and and UH and Dre back in those days. So as a very young sales executive at that time, that was my first taste.

I'll um, when I first got the Priority Records, I didn't have, you know, listen, I grew up without having you know, a lot of exposure, certainly to black music. And black culture. I I had listened to some blues and some RMB and stuff like that, but I was really, uh, you know, I had not grown up around that space. And the first record that they sent me, um was a group that Easy had signed by the name of Penthouse Players. Click now, I'm taking you way back now,

And I usual, that's exactly right. And I put that in my player and uh, in my in my car and I was driving down the street and I rolled the windows up real quick. I was like, oh my god, know, I can't believe what they're saying. So and so that was your exposure kind of like to rap music. The gangster record that started me. That was the first record I touched in in gangster rap, and in West Coast gangster rap to be more specific. Okay, yeah, so tell me about that a little bit, because you how were

your interactions back then? Were easy you those guys, because you know, you got to see them come in and kind of go through the whole thing that they were going through. Yeah, you know, Um, I was an ignorant young man, just like many people are, right, because you don't have the experience to back it up. So I didn't really understand early, like everything that was involved in

the game and exactly where people were coming from. It took me a minute to get my head around, you know, after sitting with a lot of great artists, with Um, you know, with Jerry, Jerry and Easy, and you know, being in meetings with Cube and being in meetings with with um, you know, the rap a lot folks and all that Southern hip hop. It took me a minute steel to get my head around the fact that these were not just at that time, it's changed a little bit.

These were not just commercial initiatives, right to to make money and sell records and create some kind of hoop law. This was people talking about real life experiences. This was people expressing their frustration about police brutality, or expressing their frustration about segregation, or expressing their frustration about unequal treatment

and those kind of things. And then I really got to understand people's walks and really where some of the lyrical content was coming from and what they were trying to say, and it became very, very very important to me. At that time. I was very impressed, saddened a lot of times, but very impressed about the differences of journeys between different cultures here in America and what you know, motivated people just to tell their story, you know. So so at that time, man, you know, and I will

hope that that lays true for the day. You think kind of society and impressing um made an impression of fund music back then. Oh yeah, I think that you know, people typically if it's authentic, right, and it's real and stuff that stands the test of time, you know, like straight out of confident and stuff like that. These were real stories about experiences that these young men were having in their neighborhoods and in their lives, and no one

had really told it in a commercial way. I mean, everybody that lived in the community, you know, had experienced certain things that you know, with the police and stuff that's really topical right now, but no one really had had brought it into the mainstream. You know. It was very very hush hush, very behind the scenes, and really exposed a lot of interesting cultural journeys that particularly at that time Black America had been on even even today that the long yeah exactly. So now let me ask

you this. Did you ever had a lot of personal interaction with the guys in n w A. I had UM. I did have personal interaction, but it wasn't nearly as tight. I was always in the meetings. I had certainly sat with Eric UM, I had certainly done a lot of business with Jerry Heller quite frankly, because he was, you know,

at Ruthless at that time. That was a big deal to us and I then started that was kind of the n w A was really the beginning of where I started to get exposed to artists, start to get in front of them, start to try and you know, see them as something other than just you know, stars are you know, music artists, and start to really understand

them as people. But it took time from there. I was you know, when you're at a label like that, and particularly Priority being an independent label, you know you kind of do a little bit of everything. You don't just do what you're appointed to do. So we were always in the room and such and always been part

of that UM and it grew over time. Yeah, because we're gonna touch on Priority of Love because Priority has such a strong history and I'd like to tell people that outside of Deaf Jam, they're probably one of the greatest hip hop labels ever, I believe, so I mean,

it's personal to me. You know. Um, we had a really tight family there, and it grew tremendously over time, but in the early days that I got there, it was really a tight family and those persons, those executives and people that worked there, and a lot of the artists that are filled with us. You know, Thank god, I'm really close friends with today, um, really close personal

friends with and have maintained a fantastic relationship over the years. Okay, so let me ask you this because you were around during that time, so you got to see a lot of people come and go when that riff started happening with um, you know n w A, when they decided to break up, did that impact everything going on the building at the time that that calls the stirring the building? Oh yeah, you know, um, um, you know one of

the things. Yeah, absolutely, and and and you know a lot of those riffs are obviously well documented, right, but you know, listen, you know we'll all for for the rest of time, and certainly during that time, it always becomes typically about money or image, right, those are the two things that are important in the entertainment business. So if you disrespect somebody or if you play with their money, or they think you're playing with your money. You don't

even have to be playing with it. You know. It

causes people to get pretty emotional. People getting real emotional. Now, let me ask you this run you guys had somebody and I think people often forget this in history, you guys have was probably you know, he's probably considered one of the greatest moguls and music right now, jay Z, you guys actually had an opportunity to bring Jaz over there the priority for his first to release his first album because everybody was telling them, no, do you remember an the details around the that I do. I do

some of them. I I prefer to leave private. But uh uh yeah, jay Z and Damon Dash Jay and there was a gentleman there by the name of al Branch. You know, um they were the early Rockefeller Obviously everybody knows Dame and Jay Um. But we put out the reasonable Doubt record there and you know, pardon me Ja for saying this. I still think it's your best record you ever did. You thought that was the best me ever did so when you first heard that, you were

impressed with it. Oh yeah, I mean I I thought that record was was you know, just off the chain at that time, and you know it went on. We did very well with it. I mean, you know, times have have certainly changed in the music. This is like it always does. But you know, our bar of success has changed over the year, whether it becomes streams or this or that. But you know, putting out records like that, anything that went a gold or above for us was

considered to be a success. And I still have plaque on my wall for reasonable doubt, and I'm proud of that one that was a great record or reasonable reasonable that wouldn't go back then. That's a good thing. I think. It's one thing to say is these greatest albums too. I thought I've heard people say that, So you guys man that The thing I liked about Priority is that I think you guys, versus building just recording artists, you guys assisted a lot of moguls and building their brain.

You guys created a lot of companies. Let me ask you this one of the greatest success stories ever, one of the best salesmen ever, I think in the history of rap music, Master Peak, can you take us back to the beginning of how that all came the whole no limit thing. Yeah, I will. I mean, you know, there's still there's a lot of stuff out there now. And again I stay in touch with a lot of that crew of No Limit crew. We spend an awful

lot of time together. Me personally, I spend awful lot of time with each one of them, whether with Bean or Mia or serve On or KLC and and the medicine men and and that whole crew. But um, it was really an interesting time because Priority had just come off of the Chronic right, which was again probably one of the most influential hip hop route albums in history. It it really introduced, in my humble opinion, the g funk era and really commercialized hip hop, right. I mean,

that was one of the first records. It was certainly the first record I was ever involved with. We got commercial radio play, right that Actually I didn't. We We were we were a street label. We put stuff out with guerilla marketing and street marketing. We used the clubs and the d days and you know, there wasn't exposure on video on major network channels. B et well, you know what, and radio was never gonna play our music, right, or the music of the artists that we so chose.

But Master you know, we had just come I mean, Chronic was still blazing. I mean it's still doing great today, right, And we had found success in that, and I had I was had of sales at Priority. I worked for a man by the name of Bob Grossi there, and I was doing mainly sales, and we were doing a little bit of everything. But there was a gentleman there by the name of David Winer that worked for me at that time. He was a West Coast sales rep. And David's been on quite a bit of TV. He's

a good friend of mine. He's a great man, and he really found discovered and brought Master P to Priority and and and being David's boss at that time, David and I were, you know, working to try and figure out what we had here. I'll never forget, you know, I was riding in a car before we signed Master P. And you know, um we put out the Tru Record, which again I think is one of the best records he ever did. That first Tru record was a hard record.

But David, you know, had brought him in and I was sitting with P and and we had not signed him yet. We were down in San Diego and Master P and I went to Tijuana um um to go to the clubs down there that night, and I remember him saying on the on the ride down to Mexico, he was like, I'm gonna be bigger than Dr Dre right, And Dr dre was huge at that time. The chronic

was gigantic still is. And I was like, you know, man, if if I could tell you how many times I've heard somebody say that to me, right, you know, I hope you are. But that's a tall order, right, being bigger than Dr Dre right, So just a further steal, not to to suck all the air out of the room. But one of the things that continued to happen is P would make these prophecies, right, he would say, I'm

gonna be bigger than Dr Dre. I mean, he did two d eighteen million dollars in eighteen months in volume by putting out records with the tank on him, right from all the artists that we're so familiar with now, right, that was in that crew. And you know, he came to us one day and he called me, said I'm gonna put out you know, we we He actually didn't tell us. He just shipped a load of dolls master P Dolls to the warehouse UM in Jacksonville at that time,

which we were distributing our records. We weren't in the toy business, right, So I'm arguing with the guy about the dolls. Before I could get done with the argument, right, we put together a cell sheet and we put it out to our retail partners and it's strolled out and they were gone. You know. He said, I'm gonna make a movie. It's called I'm About It, right. And I watched the movie and you know, hey, I'll be the first one to tell you, and people that tell you

differently may or may not be telling the truth. I didn't get it. I watched it. I was like, okay, you know, I was like, you know, that's the pretty, you know, pretty low budget movie, you know what I mean, not not a big deal. And the thing just blew out. I think it went four times platinum at that time. And then everything we sold on that thing went one way, which was unheard of at the retail industry at that time. We sold it all one way because you know, he

was like, hey, nobody believed in me. Nobody believed in the in the movie so they can buy it one way and on it if they want to have it on the shelf. So he he really changed a lot of the marketing and a lot of the you know, ideas, and he was a real still is. I mean, he's still a great man. He was a real force to be reckoned with as it relates to marketing and concept and then making him come to a reality. I mean, there's the guy that said, hey, I'm gonna go play

basketball in the NBA, right and he didn't. So one thing you can front of that guy. And I Steve say that he probably has to be one of the top five executives and black music, and I put that up there with Verry Gordon. Um, you know, Russell Simmons, you have to mention you have to mention Pee right along with Easy and those guys, because I think but he is even more profound because he wasn't exactly the

best reverend the world. Yeah, I mean, look, you can never judge a man's heart, and man that that guy wanted it more than anybody I ever met, and he went and got it and I'm proud of him. And you know, hey, he uh, he just he he changed the game and he will will forever be cemented in all of our you know, history books as as a rap icon, one of a kind, big props out to Pee, no joke. He's the truth all the way through and through. Yeah, he is, And I think one of the things with

no limit. I think, like you said, I think he was always kind of a step ahead of the curb with everything. Great marketing guy, fantastic on execution, and again I almost thought he was a prophet, right. He would say something and then sure enough it would always come through, and I was like, my gosh, you know, I can't argue with this man anymore because what ever he says, whether I think he's right or wrong, doesn't matter. Well

one one way. You gotta look at it too. He had a kind of like a guy that was a predecessor for gangs wrapping the South. You know, I don't never discount Uncle Luke for what they were doing down there,

but that was a different kind of music. I think Ja Prince brought the gangsterism from the South, that gangster element because when you listen to those um rap a Lot CDs and you heard them talk at the beginning of them, it almost like he was giving you a message about what was going on in Houston at the time, and I look forward to those as a kid growing up in the Midwest. I actoually love Rap a Lot Records, So was priority was priority was on Rap a Lot

Ruppords first major distributor, weren't they. We were, We distributed records for Jay. Jay has become a good friend over the years. I know that you you' all have a relationship as well. And he's been on the show, right, Yeah, he's been on the show. J is a great dude. Man, It's my buddy right then. So you know, you gotta get of early pioneer credit to Jay Prince, especially when it comes to Southern hip hop, because we all have

our our our geography, right. We got West Coast had a little bit of a different feel and sound and a little bit of different culture quite frankly the things that people were into, right, and then you had the East Coast, which certainly had a different feel and sound and is credited with being the initial early you know, introducing rap, right, and they had a different feel and sound.

And then in the South, you know, uh, you know, Rap a Lot Records certainly defined that southern feel and sound, and as far as I'm concerned, there will always be the original down there signed some fantastic artists again, people that have become friends of mine over the years, and much mad love, mad respect for I consider Rap a lot to be my my family. Those people in the office down there, and Jay Prince and and and the

people that he had around him. J Is is one of the kinds straight up great music executive and I love him to death. He did a fantastic job, continues to and there's another man. Whatever he touches, whatever he gets involved in, whatever he wants to see come true, he goes and makes it happen. And guys, you know that's a beautiful thing, ain't it. Yes, it is because the thing about Jay Prince too is dead. The thing I always loved about Jay is Jay don't do a

whole bunch of time and wrestling, the live wrestling. He kind of just give you that courtesy calls. He'd likes his head and that's what it deals, you know what I mean. And he's tom I've never heard him raise his voice. It's always like, well, hey, this is what we want to do now right here, and this is what's gonna happen, and you gonna do this, and I'm gonna do that when we go going about our way and you never know a bunch of live wrestling them

and say, there's just no nonsense. Yep, he's he's a quiet man. I've had I've had full on meetings with my staff with him, you know, because Jay and I have been in several different you know, distribution relationships. We were at Priority, we were at Warner with Asylum East West. I had, you know, I had Jay there, and then I had Jay again at Fontana. When I was at Fontana and I had whole meetings with my staff and

and Jay didn't come to all of them. But when he was there, I've had meetings where he didn't say a single word during the entire meeting. People like, is he cool with what we're talking about? Is he cool with what we're planning? Is you know that's on this record releases? He in agreement? I said, If he's not an agreement, he'll let you know. Let you know. Now,

let me ask you this. You've been around some pretty good executives, and you can answering this if you want to becau I don't know you can keep it one hundred. Have you ever had someone that was just an asshole that you just didn't like dealing with, but they were successful and you kind of tolerating them. Oh yeah, I mean I have a whole notebook full of those people, right. Um. I mean, you know, life tends to throw us um

um a lot of different kinds of people. And I'm sure there are people that have me in that same notebook on their desk too. You know, not everybody's built for everybody else, you know, and you know, see all I'll tell you, I've been around a lot of people that I didn't I want to do business with that I didn't really personally like, but I needed to do business with them because I respected him. And if I lost respect or they lost respect for me, that's the

beginning of a very broken relationship. Yeah, you know, without that, you know, you can try, as at least my experiences, you can try as hard as you want, but you just can't get there. And I've worked for people who just didn't respect me and didn't respect what I brought to the table, and that's okay. And I've had people work for me that I didn't respect and didn't respect what they brought to the table, and that's just a

bad relationship. You need to cut that off sooner than later. Yeah, you know, and I'm really I'm really good friends with um with one of you guys, biggest excellent over there. Um you may know him was mc tien. Yeah, you know, me and him that became, you know, pretty good friends

over the years. And the thing I left about MEC is he always talks about Priority with like that Priority brigs with Garden at Nostalgia, like like, man, it was the best time effort, you know, like it was a family you know what we're going in and just like you know, he tells me about the time he walked in he started who banging, and you guys just fully

supported him with it. Yep, yep. Max a friend of mine as well as you know, and um, you know, honestly, you know, one of the things about Priority was funny. I see this happen in corporate America all the time. It's gotten a little bit better because you know, we've matured corporately, and music has matured, and hip hops now that it's not a it's it's not a fad, it's not a music of a culture. It's not anything like that. It is the largest most popular genre in the world

right now. And so with that said, you know, the thing that was magical about Priority is that it was a community of people with really a common goal, great leadership, and more importantly, we understood and we lived the culture. You know, we still live in a world where we call people black and white and we refer to them about their ethnicity. I think that's played out and that I hope that during my lifetime we won't will refer to people as men and women or whatever they are,

right instead of referring to them by ethnicity. But we're still there. So if if we're still there, I'll do the same thing. We understood black culture, and we didn't understand it because we thought we wanted to be in it or we might. We understood it because we lived it every day we went. I went to the neighborhoods, I was in you know, people's houses, I was at their parties, I was there for their holidays, you know.

And as as the as much as we are the same, there are different cultural differences no matter where you're at in the north, the south, the east, and west. Like we just talked about, you know, different language, different way of speaking, sometimes different customs, lots of different things. We were in the middle of it. It was what we did for a living, and we did it together. And we did have a family atmosphere and a loyalty in a and a real camaraderie inside that that building. That

was really magical. I'll leave you with this as it relates. You know, one of the one of the things that happened when Priority was purchased by E. M. I and I, you know, I mean once My purchased that, I resigned and I went to Warner Um and worked for Sylvia Rhne. Sylvia was kind enough to give me a shot to come to Warner and go to what we called the majors at the time, because I'd been an independent my

whole life. As a big step and you know, I just when they bought it, I knew that they weren't going to maintain the culture of the company, whether they intended to or not. I knew that was gonna go away, and so I cut my you know, I cut ties and left Um immediately. You know, I was one of the first to leave, because I just knew it was never be the same. We were now owned by a corporation. We weren't owned by Mark Serami and Brian Turner who

founded the company. You know, they were, they were still there, but but they weren't going to be the boss long term. E M I was. They paid the money, they wrote the cash. You know, Before we're going, because I know you have a long story career, before we're going, I want to ask you this, is there anyone that turned up to be super duper successful that the building might have fought? Have you ever going to bring someone into

someone in the building kind of folks in it? I think that any time you go to bring any one end, people fight you on it, whether it's another executive or it's another artist or whatever. But you know, I will I will never forget. We wanted to be in business with cash money, and there was a lot of fighting in and around cash money, and I wish we'd had them to be part of that family. Um, you know, for me as a sales guy at that time, and again we did lots of other things, but I was

classically trained sales guy. That's all I cared about, right, I didn't care about who was, you know, arguing or fighting with who or what colors, people were wearing, the rags they were flying. None of that hattered to me. I just cared that it would sell right, that that something would go out there and be impactful, and that

we could go and create something exciting. And they always fight and steal no matter what it is, because no one's gonna have the same opinion, so there's always one side versus the other, and you know, sometimes you do so. So so you mean to tell me that Priority Ricords could have had cash money records over there, and I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure no limit had a problem with that. There were lots of people that had a problem with it. And frankly, you know, I was I

was a vote, a very uh you know minority. Well, I was an insignificant vote that I wanted them there, I bet you did. You know, those guys sold a lot of rigors, and when they came there was kind of like the you know what what what the funny thing it was about that situation. It was not I know Birdman and I know you know, I think they're

both great people. But I think at that time, though, I think that with all the master p doing what he did, cash money maybe might have had the success because p kind of opened up the door for New Orleans. I will always see p as upon in ear down there. He was the one that got you know, got his shot first in a way, right, j right, but certainly for New Orleans. Um. But yeah, he went on and blaze the trail, just like Ja blaze the trail for southern hip hop. We got to talk about the sponsor

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Whatn't the part of it? You know what I'm saying, you guys, don't and use that promo code in case you know you're feeling age. You don't necessarily have to be on if you have no problems. But so you left Priority Records. You over now the major label because a lot of people you know, it's funny when you say a major, because at that time I think Priority was probably doing more volume than the major's work. We

were we were doing quite well. And um, you know, we had certainly got the attention of everybody in the industry because we were on the top of the charts. Don't forget before we leave Priority that in w A for Life record, right that debuted at number one because sounds Scan changed the reporting and it was more accurate, and so n w A ended up being the number one record in the country, and that opened a lot

of people's eyes. Um, the other genre that really benefited from that change that sound scan was country because country had a similar country music that is, had a similar you know path, and that they weren't quite recognized for the contributions that they were making to the retail community. The retailers knew it, but the world didn't really know it until sound Scan changed their formula. And frankly, that

was a big deal. So we had caught a priority, had gotten a lot of attention along with master p being on the chart squad every week with a brand new record that was was out there post that. Yeah, we for those out there that may not know what sound scans man, because we're tell them about retail now, that's like, that's like ancient stuff to most of these keys nowadays. Scan Back in the day, children and young people listening to the episode right now, sound scan was

how they tract the sales of records. You know, every time they scanned, it would give record beings at a records For one time when we went sound scan and um, I could talk about it now, we got a whole bunch of free CDs in the mail all the time.

It was pretty cool. Once people in sound scan, we started getting all kinds of stuff for free, yep, and and and what you know at the end of the day, what sound scan results were what you just referred to steal is it drove the numbers on the Billboard charts, right for the top two hundred and the and the pop charts and those kind of things. And so when n w A shot to number one when we were you know, we released the record, it was because the sound scans reporting and it ended up being number one

on the Billboard chart. Oh wow, So that changed a whole lot of things. Now, let me ask you this. You go into the major system, what did they Was there anything there that you just didn't like versus the old regime versus what you were used to doing. Oh, there were so many things. You know, any time you make change, things are different, right, and changes always hard because we want things to kind of remain the same, right always. Um, even if they're better, we still maybe

don't know until we get in it. But yeah, the biggest change for me going to the majors is coming out of an independent like priority And I've referred to it several times during this podcast, is you can call yourself whatever you want, right, vice president of sales, You know, head a radio, but if the box needs to be moved, somebody goes and moves the box, doesn't matter what your

title is. And and and that was what I missed the most is you know, I had a really great relationship with Power one oh six and Hot nineties seven in New York, and I was driving a lot of initiatives with them on the advertising side, and a lot of our records were We're getting introduced there because we had a good relationship with them, and they were starting to understand, you know, the importance, particularly of Southern hip hop when it came to master p right, because then

you have to continue to break down barriers of what people think was great over time, and that when I got to the majors, all changed. If you're head of sales. I was head of sales at Elector with Sylvia. You do sales. You don't do an R, you don't do any radio promotion, you don't do any marketing. You do sales. That's your job. Stay in your lane, go do that.

And that's the way larger corporations are because they have a bunch of people assigned to do everything else instead of you know a few people that have to do everything right. And that was a culture shock for me. Yeah, exactly. And I bet you that was because one of the things that I was running joke to me about industry because I worked in the publishing industry one time and

I just got offered a job. It was funny, maybe like six months ago a good friend of mine nine might leave hit me up and say, hey, you should laugh, you know, apply for this job. Right. So, I'm doing a phone interview with the woman and she's probably thirty years younger than me, and we're talking about it. We get to talking about I won't say what company it was, but we get to talking about Prince and I was talking about, you know, Purple Rain, and she didn't know

what I was talking about. And and I kind of politely changed my mind as about the position. Who have to having a conversation with her because I realized, you know, this woman right here, I could possibly be working for her. And she don't know nothing about music, She don't know nothing about black music. She's just someone that's there because of whatever reason. But she had no passion for the music.

And I just didn't want to go into a situation of where I was just doing paperwork and research all day. I wasn't. I wasn't getting into it like that because to me, that's what the music business has become, almost all about analytics and just the pure numbers. I'm something. Don't get me wrong, those are very important tools, but when you're trying to find that next stuff, I don't think Brian turning those dudes just in there looking at metrics back and I think they were listening to stuff

that was gonna be impactful to the coaching. Yeah, yep, those guys were, you know true. I mean, one of the things that I find a little bit interesting about the music business now is it is, to your point, still very analytic driven. Right, everything's out there in front of you, all the metrics, all the numbers. You know,

there's no hiding from the data, so to speak. And that I mean back in the early music days, and you know, long before my time and up through my time in the music business, these guys were signing artists that they believe we're going to be successful. And they didn't have a bunch of reports they were looking at. They went to a show watched where they're not the crowd knew the lyrics, right, they listened to of the

local retailers. Were they selling the records right? They went and did some of that grassroots stuff and lots of people, and I've done it several times. I signed many artists that probably in a analytical way, did not deserve to have a record deal, but I signed him because I believe they were passionate and I believe that they were,

you know, worthy of having a shot. I signed a deal at at Fontana, you know, with a good friend of mine, Mark Tanner and Chime Music, because he wrote a song that was influential to me, and I signed him based on that any of the numbers were gonna be off. You did fine. I mean, it wasn't a giant success, but I'm glad we did it well. You know, sometimes it has to be involved that dude, Like I just think, man, a lot of music has to start

coming from the old. A lot of it has to mean something to somebody because we go off because it's a lot of stuff out there. It's like, let's keep it real. It's not. It's hard to get a people's attention right now, but if you've got some bs, it's easy to get people's attention. Now. This is definitely the error of just um. And I don't want to say because I like a lot of these young people's music. I'm not one of those old dudes to talk about

the keys and what they're doing. But I definitely think that the system is kind of rigged right now that you know, people can have the appearance of getting attention that they want to, but it's not really going there. It's not really making an impact like it is versus somebody just being interested in the oddity just going on at that time, you follow what I'm saying. I mean I always referred to it and still referred to it like this still authenticity, right? Is it authentic? Is that

really who you are? Is that really you're talking about stuff you really know something about? That meant something to me. Like we talked about the early Priority days, these guys

were living that line. If they weren't fake, they weren't like you know, it wasn't stuff they didn't experience, And that meant a lot more to me than I can go and tell stories all day that aren't true, right, And I can go tell stories about things that I don't know anything about, and sooner or later, you know, game recognized game I don't care what error we're in. If you're not really authentic, at some point, somebody's gonna

see through it. Now. Whether they care or not, if the beats hot enough right now is my question exactly. And you know, I'd like to tell people all the time. I don't want to keep going back to Pe. But Pete broke down on so many barriers. I think Pete was the first person that proved kind of like, now, don't get me wrong with Pete, but he was by far not the worst rapper of all time. There are people that you know, actually way worse than them to

call themselves rappers, you know what I mean. I think Pete proved though that if you had to beat man the hook catchy beating the catchy in the story, people were buying to the public. I don't think Joe public care about that like that. People were buying into that because of the brand, and that's what artists and labels and entities should strive to be. People bought things that

came out with that tank on it, period. Whether they'd ever heard a beat or a note on it, they knew they had to have that released because it had the tank on it. And if it had the tank on it. It had to represent what they had experienced with for with the No Limit releases, and that is that was the magic there was creating a brand that people had to be a part of, remembering pulling the tanks out on the basketball court and the dependance and it went on and on and on. And he was brilliant.

He was a gene He still is. I mean I'm talking like he's not still here. He just had a birthday this week. He's a genius, he really is. And watching don't get a big head. And you know that the you know the thing? You know, man, I think what it is a lot of these kids today and I hear people people hit people hit me up all the time for whatever reason. They think we could do something with their music. Everybody's looking for a break. Yeah, And um, I tell these guys, like I asked people,

what is it that you want out of your career? Why? Why? Why do you want to put an album out? If they tell me if the first thing out they mass they want to make money, I never deal with it again because that's gonna be a situation that's not gonna be They're not in it for the right reasons. I think I think when you know, I know, when I was making music and I was putting out music and I was working for the publishing company and doing my thing, I was there because I love music and I would

have something to do with it. Probably would have did the job for free. They had told me there's gonna pay for this job. You know, you come in and do it because I was passionate about it. I love listening to the music. I loved getting the opportunities, like when we have Warner Brothers and somebody hit us up and asks if we had a song for this, and we're looking at the scene to movie and you're trying to play something with that particular scene, it had to

be all about the music. And if it's not about that, and I think that that's the same for anything, for him, for whatever, all the life you're in, I think you have to have some level of passion for it. Have you ever found throughout your courses you've been around a long time, man, have you ever just looked at this stuff and say it, Man, I'm tired of but I don't want to deal with it no more. Oh Still, It's exactly why I'm where I'm at right now, is

you're a thousand percent right. I worked for thirty years and never felt like I was working. I was doing something I loved. I was doing it with people I love. Did I get an arguments, did we have fights, did we have threats? Did we have drama every day? But I loved it. And at the end of the day, I never felt like I got up and went to work. It was part of my life. It was part of

what I might to your point steal. It was passion, and that's what should get people up in the morning, because if you go do what you're really passionate about, the money will always be there. You'll always find your way to success because you're not working. People would say to me all the time, I go to dinner, I'd be on my phone. I'd go to here and I'd be on my phone. I'd be They had blackberries, then they had iPhones, and all of a sudden, you know

you were connected seven. I was constantly working. I was constantly on a plane, flying across the world always, and you know, hey, at the end of the day. People would say to me all time, and you're a workaholic, and be like, I'm not. This is what and who I am, it's not what I'm trying to be. It's not what I want to be. It's just part of who I am. I'm enjoying myself. This is fun for me. I love this. So at the end of the day, I never felt like I went to work a day

of my life. When it started to be work for me, it's when I stepped away mhm. Because that told me, just like you just described in such great advice to anyone, no matter where you're at in the walk of your life, to listen to ma'am. When you stop enjoying what you're doing, you're doing because you have to. That truly is slavery. Yeah, it is. You know, if you if you're chained because you have to go because you gotta do this or

you gotta do that. Now, I know a lot of people gotta pay their bills and they gotta do this and do that. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. There's always an option to continue to look for ways to put you in line with your purpose. And if you can get aligned with your purpose, it will be so much easier. You may you may hey, you may have to be in bondage for a few years to do what you gotta do to be able to get there. But at the end of the day, that should be your goal.

Not money, not this, not that, not how do I sleep more and work lass, none of that. What is it that I'm here and I'm really designed to do? Ye know, what's your purpose? And that's that's That's one of the things that I preached my key. It's right. Um. I've always told my kids, um that if you look for a job so to speak, now, there's nothing wrong with the work, because you can't staying here you sit on your tail all day. You can't stay at home, you sit on your gass all day while I go

pay the bills. I don't mean that, but I think that if you're in a situation of where you're going to go work somewhere forty hours a week and it's somewhere that you hate, and you go do that until you're almost just like just pretty much just um, just pretty much not living life so to speak. You're you're not You're just existing because there's no passion and what would you do. But I think if you continue to

work towards your wife, I think you'll find success. I agree with you still and and you know, hey, listen, I'm still in and around the business. I still have some publishing assets, I still have some artists I'm involved with. I'm involved with a really big artist right now. Heritage artists were working through both publishing and masters and all that kind of stuff, and I've been blessed to still be called upon to do that. And you and I talked the other day a little bit because we're friends.

Maybe people out there don't know that we're actually friends. Maybe they think we're not, you know. And but but you know, we talked to the you know the other day. And I never and again, I don't live and regret. I don't look back, have you know, Um, are there things I'd like to change? One thousand percent. Anybody goes through this life is gonna have some things that they wish they'd have done differently that they didn't. And that's all good and fine. But you know what, I just

simply never I never hired a publicist. I never tried to put my name in the Marquee lights. I never did a bunch of that type of stuff. Was that smart or not smart? I don't really know. So far, I probably could afford to I haven't missed any meals, thank God. You know what I mean, I haven't. I haven't ever had to go hungry, So I think it worked out just fine. But I never did a lot of that stuff. I just followed my passion and I

had three things that I tried to accomplish. I tried to be direct and honest, and it defended a lot of people oftentimes right, um, because be at the boardroom or the streets, sometimes that truth can be really sharp and sting, right, and to say it, then this is what it is. Um. And then I also just never wanted to be deceptive. I didn't want to be. My reputation and my name was very it still is very

important to me. I can walk into any community anywhere in the world and find my way through no problem, and that's a gift from God. Out I'm appreciative. It's nothing, not not something I creative or something I was given.

But I can go to the Calihope projects, I can go to Cabrini Green, I can go to watch and I can walk right through there and I don't have any problem holding my head up because people are people and it's all good and it's about how you carry yourself, the character who you are, and trying to be authentic to your earlier point, man, trying to live your purpose and be authentic, right, And people recognize that and they respect it, and most people want to see you do

well as a result, you know what I mean. And I have a firm belief man, that how you treat people in life life is going to reciprocate that to you in return. Because and now I'm not asking this and this is my own personal opinions. If I don't want to, nobody's saying going back and seeing Ryan said this, like you're going back to those executives they actually had the opportunity to work with them. And you mentioned one earlier, Damon Dash He treated people really, really bad when he

was successful on top. And see the one big misconception that people have when they're in power. They think people are bowling down to them because they respect them. No, it's not that they respect, they're tolerating. They're tolerating you because they almost have to at that point because you're in a successful situation. You're part of successful situations, so they feel like that they may have to take some

of that crap, that tudition out at that time. But the minutes you fall off, instead of somebody giving you a hand to reach you, they're gonna push you down even further because they're glad to see that happening to you. So I've always been a guy getting pulled up into situations to where I've never treated anyone bad in my life. During my life, I always treated the janitor like he was the CEO. And I think how we treat people is very very important. I just think that that that's

what it is now, did you know? You know what? Still at the end of the day, And again, I'm a long way from perfect, but I keep it one hundred You know me well enough. I keep it right down in the middle. I say what I feel and and doesn't mean I'm right, but I say what I feel. I'm authentic about it. I try to treat people the way that I want to be treated at the end

of the day. I'm sure there are a bunch of people that can say this that about the other thing, and most of them probably don't know me very well, because if you do, I really try to live my life like that. Do I do it perfect all the time? Now? But I I'll tell you what we're talking about, in my humble opinion is respect again. Right, If I respect you as another man or another human being, then we'll at least start out on the right course, right, right,

And you can destroy that right. You can lose my respect for you, right if if if you work at it, it's not hard to do. I can lose your respect for me if I work at it and show you something different than an authentic and straightforward person that I know still that you respond to. Okay, that's my choice to destroy that respect, right, not not yours. Right, that's mine if I if I choose to put myself in a position where you're not gonna respect me. Yeah, we

all make choices. We all make choices. So anyway, we got off on that. I took you down a rabbit hole a little bit. You get back on your courts. It's all good. I want to ask you, you work with all of these like brilliant people that wan't to become legendary. And when I asked this question, I'm not talking about the seal Via Rohans. In the world of Mark's Ramy's Who is the best who you who? Who would you say is the best executive that you've worked

with urban music. In urban music, like urban music, Like if you had to pick, like from Monst the Dang Dashes, the Masterps, the p Diddies, or whoever, who would you say was the one that had their stuff the most together. I mean, I don't know them all, guys. So this is just based on my experience. You know, Brian Turner and Mark's Ramy A Priority will forever being aimed in my mind as great urban executives because they were just

doing what they were passionate about. Too. They weren't really trying, they weren't trying to change the world. They were trying to just do what they do, you know what I mean. And it did change the world, and that was really attractive to me. Um. But I gotta tell you, Um, I've had so many experiences with fantastic executives, not necessarily only in urban because once I went to the majors, I got exposed to all kinds of genres and I got to work with lots of legendary people, and I'm

very appreciative of that. But Jim ury Is is a dear friend of mine, and Jim was a fantastic music executive who worked under Doug Morris for a very long time, but one of the greatest record what is certainly was a cornerstone of building, you know, the largest record company in the world at Universal, and he out me in to run Fontana and I'll forever be in his debt. I can't. I can go on and on about Jim and the things I learned from him about being a

great executive music or not. The way he said things, the way he analyzed things, the way he processed things, and I was very blessed to have enough time with him too. And by the way, I'm an acquired taste, So thank you Jim for taking it at some somebody who's an acquired taste, because I didn't taste that good to everybody out there. Jim Jury and those guys like that,

those are expected. I'm talking about the guys that were kind of like self made as executive, you know, the guys that were the heads of the of the Jail Bond records, of the No Limit records, and things like that, These freed executives. I mean, you know, how can you not go back to Jay Prince and start there right? I mean, Jay was I mean, Jay created a culture and genre out of Houston, Texas. That will that will never be erased. He just simply created a movement in

a brand um And he's a very very very smart man. Yeah, he has to be, because if you look at what he's done outside of music and himself is incredible. I mean, if you you know, he owns a couple of islands, man, and he has a rank to where you gotta you know, you gotta. You just can't walk to his front door to deliver the mail, right, you know what I mean, you have to go on the drive actually get to

his crib. So I think he's done some incredible things, man, And I think the biggest thing with him is he did it all kind of on a low too, and he did it on zoom. He did he did it without you know, a lot of these other people and a lot of these people that were talking about had to have money from Corporate America or somebody else. Jay created his own success m from from nothing. M hm. So sorry, J, to keep your name in my mouth

this you know, during this podcast the whole time. But you know, I love and respect you, but that's the truth. You've got to put J at the top of the list. He created an entire movement, genre and culture from nothing. Yeah, and you know, personally, like the person today, one of the newest exists and he's not that new. He just

kind of he's not that new at this point. But my buddy on Anthony Tiffic, top Dog over TV and another guy man you don't never hearn of his cruise name and no miss you'll never see him on a whole bunch of stuff. And he kind of stays behind the scenes, like I think an executive kind of ship, you know what I mean. He lets his artists go out and shine. He's not the main headline. Hey he he uh. He's done a fantastic job with Top Dog Entertainment.

Another one that you need to mention too is Strange music what Travis Okan and Technology Travis Okwan in Tech nine are not to be trifled with. They've created an empire in Kansas City, Missouri. They've done a fantastic job again to people that I consider to be friends of mine. I think they're fantastic people. For to me, I've had the privilege of working with them on a couple of different versions. Great people from those are my buddies, and

they've they've created an empire. Um, you know, you can go on and on. Listen. Sugar Night created one of the biggest brands in the business Death Row Records. Yeah, well you know mom of Sugar Gills. And that's like probably one of the great American tragedies right there, is that he really was on the cusp of being probably the greatest record label black music is black music record

label of all time. He was that close. Because you think about it, if he wouldn't have, if he would have just made some better decisions and kind of stayed behind the camera a little bit and kind has made some moves, he would have wound up having eminem He would have probably wound up having bringing TV along. Are really envisioned should one day becoming like the head of

Interscope one day. I envisioned that because one thing, if you take away all the bs and the Shenanigans and all that other stuff, he was a really pretty freaking brilliant dude. I mean, you can front on it that that death throws a household name. So even given all the stuff you're referring to, he still created a household name with some some of the greatest artists of our time. Yeah. Did.

First of all, you know that the thing was and as you know, with that businessman, I think that sometimes it may be a little necessary to let your the lean on somebody a little bit. But after he acquired trade, you figure outside the trade, he wouldn't got a skinny tall, skinny key I from Long Beach and made him a household name. Don't get me wrong, Pray you had a

lot of influence in that. But another level though, no doubt, and you you gotta give props square they're due, right, I mean, you know that's what this is really about. At the end of the day. You know, any success in life is not come easy. And look, they're always humans, right, always humans that are circling around trying to be a part of that or tear you down. And it's easy to get drunk with success. It's easy to feel like

I'm better than you, or I'm invincible or whatever. Those emotions that come up that that you know, we think might now that we're a little bit more mature, it may seem like they're crazy. But man, you know, when you're twenty five year old, you're never gonna die. Oh no, you think you're mortal, You're gonna live forever, right, So it's easy to fall into that trap of not really you know honestly, you know you can you cannot fulfill your purpose to you can be living it and not

fulfill it. Yeah, they're just dope. So man, let me ask you this one, because I know you're busy and I ain'tle hold ship the whole night. What's going on? What do you have what you're working on right now? Because I know you've got something incredible going right now that you probably won't even disclose. Well, I've got I've

got three fundamental things that I'm intimately involved in. I've got a very large name brand heritage artist that has publishing masters and um UM and those rights that we're working through, which is fantastic. So we're able to create some new intent. We're able to put some contemporary flavor in and around a really really important iconic artist. So we're doing we're working creatively, and we're working on the business side to maximize that UM And I've got two

other things. I've got an application that I'll talk to you about that has some patents in around it, and we're getting close to make that announcement that will really change the face of the music experience online. And we're right there. We've got the patents in place. That's fairly confidential, but it won't be long before I'll talk to you about it. Steal and then, Um, I am also a partner in an electronic motorcycle company, so we're just now

starting that. As you know, I'm a big motorcycle writer. I think I wrote it to studio to see you a couple of times. Um, and uh, oh did I lose you? Oh you're back Yep for a second there, I thought I lost you. But anyway, a UM, I'm a partner in in that company, and we're just now starting. We've got kind of our design in place, and you know this green initiative and the way that the world's going in and away from that carbon footprint. We're gonna try and uh and contribute to that and be a

part of that. And I'm excited about that. So those are the three whips, three things I have going on now, um, that that are interesting to me and that I'm passionate about. So God has been great. I'm I'm still you know, I'm still here, thank God. I'm still healthy, and I still love the music. You know, music business, music business. If they'll have me back and somebody wants to pay me a lot of money on part time job, I'm available.

And that's the thing, man, these guys don't want to pay that much money and that that's like when I had to thought the job, I said, well, man, I'll be losing money because when you go work for those companies they want to have a say so and everything that you got going on, like they were, that's one thing. They said, Well, if you came over the podcast, let's see.

Of course, I said, unless you guys got a way to paint me a whole ship to the money to come over and do that exclusively, I said, but what I'll do with my off time is my business. So that didn't work out too well, but I appreciate you coming on man, working to people hook up with you with man. Man, I'm I'm around at info at Spaulding s P A U L D I N G E n T. Edward Nancy Thomas dot com, So Spaulding E n T dot com info at you can always reach

me there. I'm not hard to find. There's usually somebody around that knows who I am and has my digits. My phone number hasn't changed in twenty five years, so I'm not running from anybody, so that's the same. So if you got my digits, so you can find somebody that has them, all you gotta do is buzz me Terry, just asking it. Okay, there we go, right there. Run. I appreciate you, brother. Hey, I thank you so much

for having me on. I love you man, I want wish the best for you and your family and want you guys to stay healthy and safe. I can't wait to see you again when we all start moving around, brother, and thank you man for time with you. Thank you man, Appreciate you all right, bro,