Big Mike on Death Row, Rap-A-Lot & Being A Geto Boy

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Your father did or you know, I know my father was in the Navy and whatever whatever. Uh, But by the time you know, my generation rolled around, I guess you could say those choices that they presented to your dad's and your grandfathers were looked at in different lights coming from when I first stepped off the porch, You get me right, You know, of course, you know, of course it was sports. You know, our niggas could play

You found me.

That was frowned upon when we was coming up as kids.

You get uh, right, And and I don't know, you know, some of us probably tried to make those choices. Who knows, Before you know, you got introduced to what we talking about right now, the street life. Once you got introduced as far as our generation is concerned, once the street life was sent it to me, I thought that was the life choice, get me going to the military or trying to play sports. You know, after high school it was like man ship like like like did niggas feel

You know, at the high school played sports, but but.

Then the streets too, you feel me.

And no, maybe just kind of lean towards the streets too much and couldn't make up that lost time, you know what I'm saying. But yeah, definitely coming out of coming out of out of the low income situations and things like that. You know, we was out there taking chances, and we was trying to get us some money, some immediate money. So a lot of cats went to the streets to get that immediate money.

Some cats was patient.

You feel me.

They saw the school thing through, you know what I mean, stuff whatever recreational situation they was in, whether football, basketball, whatever the arts.

But I think it's just a situation.

I just think it's about, you know, if your draw to the streets, you feel me, and then just.

Being young and making them decisions.

On your own like that, were not realizing how young we is in our own head. We think we're grown. You feel me, and it's not making the right choice. And we see that now. But back then, you know, nigga was bro good luck fam.

Yeah, you know what you talk about. One time, Me and you was rapping the other day, man, and uh, I think people have this idea that when you were a rapper, when you signed a contract, you riched off the bat and you was telling me a story about how your moms had called you. You was out here in California messing with death Row, and your moms had called you because they was about to kick her off the call the projects and she needed some money.

Oh yeah, yeah, definitely.

This was on around the time when Men with Me and three two we was we had came out there, We're about to do the thing with death Row. But we had just got there, so business wasn't handled, but nothing like that. We we had probably just arrived, man, I don't know. I think we was there probably about a week or so. And I went to Sugar's office to call my mom. Actually, can I use the phone? He was like, yeah, you know, make the long distance call. So I called my mama and shit, and she.

Was on the phone.

She was telling me she was she was in distress, and she was like.

Man, I need some money right And I'm like, damn, I ain't got no money right now. I just got out here with these folks. We ain't handle no business yet, you feel me. I'm like, what's going on?

Yeah?

Man, they about the victims out the project. We're standing in the project at the time. I'm the oldest side of nine kids, so the rest of the kids was in the house.

I think one of my sisters.

My sister was probably in Houston at the time, but this was day my mom was in New Orleans and mal Man, I'm hurt. I can't help my mom, you know what I mean. I'm sharing a few tears. She'll walk back in the office. He seen me on the phone shearing tears.

He was like, who that is?

I say, man, it's my mama. And he was like he got just got the phone for me, told me to wait outside. Came back outside. He was like, man, we finna get ready to go out. And I was like, well, my mama had. He was like, she's gonna call you tomorrow. Come back up here. She's gonna call you up here tomorrow. So the next day I had came up there, my mom called up there and she was.

Like, Hey, tell your friend. I say thank you, I say what happened? She was like, yeah, send me five thousand dollars. We about to move.

You feel me?

And like, I say, five thousand dollars at that time, that was probably the most money my mamad held in her hand at one time.

You feel me right now.

It wasn't enough to go buy no house, right but went from the projects to a nice rent house. You did what I'm saying, So I'll never forget that gesture right there.

I never get that, you know what. I'm glad you said that, man, because that's one thing I want to say. Everybody always talk about the bad stuff that should did it. Should did a game of that shit too.

I can't, at least my testimony, you feel me about that incident. Yeah, that was real right there. That was real right there. You know what I mean. I didn't been in situations you know what I'm saying, Well, a motherfucker would probably try to take advantage of me in that situation. You feel me, right, Let you write a couple of songs, man, and you know what I mean? This and that, this and that you feel me? The man did it. He ain't even asked for it back.

The scene, Yeah, that was a crucial period. Man, yo shoot yo was coming up. That was just like the dawn against the rep.

The light had already started shining, but it was still kind of early.

What year was that? What year was that?

I think this was probably like this had to be like ninety one and ninety two, ninety one, Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I remember when y'all first came out this way. Yeah, they was, and she was around all that then. Yeah, I was around then. It was around I had an association and with you know, with through one of the producers unknown Yeah, used to work on our music. He was also in Incahoops with trying to I guess get some work for him and slip over at death Ro, you know, with knowing Dre and the history of Prey and the record crew. A non came from that era,

Right, Yeah, we knew about you, about.

The apartment and everything. I knew about all that ship man. Yeah, because like I said, no one used to go up there and uh, you know he's he was supposedly be doing work in music for Sugar and them.

So just because he was working on the convicts app him and Big Slip mm hmm, there was. We was we started off grinding with them. Yeah, we had did and we did a handful of songs. I remember Slip had then the first version to own Straight Gangsterism M that wegains I got man. I wish I had a copy of that, but he did. Yeah, and Unknown he was putting it down too.

Yeah, it was a record winding records.

No, man, we would have to get that Slip for that record right there. Yeah, Slip had that ship man Slip did.

Man got out. That's crazy. So you was out here, so that means you was working with Snoop and all them, d o C and all the other cats.

Yep, yep, d C was there, Rage who most of the you know, the useful suspects.

Uh, it was. It was.

It was a heck of experience bro.

Us coming out there, being out in California like that for the first time in the presence of people that we was listening to, you know what I mean, Doctor dray d o Ce, you feel me. We wanted we got eight up here We're seeing. It was just like you know, the Texas we fucked with the West Coast heavy back then.

You feel me.

They go ask youngsters right now, you know they it's really about your location now, you feel me, Jack, Yeah, we've rolled with the West Coast heavy back then. So to be able to come meet these guys, man, it was just like a dream come true. It was it was, it was, it was, it was. It was a hell of a high. I ain't gonna lie it was. It was a time for me in three two.

That's crazy, man. So nineteen ninety one, shoot, I don't even know. I'm trying to think who was out she would have drop the record, but then huh by that point, h yeah, yeah, check yeah.

I was on my second album around ninety one. Ninety two.

Yeah, that's crazy.

We'll drop We'll dropped the accomptant thing. And then I just.

Dropped ninety two ropped, uh straight checking them with growing up.

In the thing in the apartment, man, man, bang it on them trainks smoking that cat, We banging it. But yeah, it was. It was a cool time, man.

I wish we would have had the opportunity to see the project all the way through, you feel me. But things happened. I got presented with an opportunity, you know what I mean. And it happened around the time when like production kind of slowed down on the Convicts thing, right because it was other things going on at the label. You feel me, and I had already had responsibilities by then, you feel me. So I was I was like, I was kind of like on the clock. I needed to

We were doing.

I'm sorry, ahead, Yeah, I'm sorry. Had you and three two?

Uh?

Had you and three two had done music together?

And and how were y'all presented the death row situation? Basically being from being from where y'all were, who convinced y'all to come to Cali and try out the death row situation?

Ah Man, So me and three two we had.

We was introduced to each other by the label right.

Well, yeah, I rapped a lot, right.

They had this the the convicts concept right that they was they was putting together. So I was a solo artist and me and Tony Draper, Me and Toni Draper, we had worked at restaurant together, right.

So.

We would go we would go to the studio.

Bro he would put he would take money out of his check put getting the studio.

I'll do the.

Same, and it was gonna be me and him and the demos that we was making.

Through Tony. They got over there to rap a lot, right.

So once.

Once Jay had heard it, he probably wanted to have a meeting and he was like, look, I see what y'all doing. Right, We got this situation over here with the convicts. If you help me with this, then I'm gonna help y'all. You feel me, right, what you're doing, you feel me? So I looked at it, you know, tall about any things, and it led up to us doing that. So that's how me and three two had got into to each other, right, But it was automatic

Were young? You feel me?

Why what I'm saying, let's go? Yeah, I was, man, And it was like the next day we had flew out. Nigga, ain't even have no clothes and ship you feel me? Motherfucker just caught out. But yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was.

It was a few people in off in that in that whole move, but I just can't.

Here around at that time.

Tom was here, you are round at the time, but we would talk to him on the phone. Why you have yo, We would talk to him on the phone.

I don't know. I know we was requested. So I'm trying. I'm trying to go back, man and run it all down, right.

I know what you're doing.

It's a lot to it. Yeah, but it's a lot to it. It was a lot to it.

But it was a situation with Harry Yo and and Jay m hm. It was a situation with them and and that's in in in from my understanding.

At first, that's what led to us going down there.

You know, they was doing the death rope thing, and they was like the convicts on death Row, they thought it'd be a good move, and that's how we had wound up going down there. But like I say, it's a whole lot of other things that had came to light later on, right, and I was able to put the pieces together and see the whole in the workers of it.

But it'll take a long ass time.

But in short, right, it was it was talks between Harry Yo and Jay that that led to it. But I think it was a collective you know, with with with with with with the heads over there at death Row about making a move and and climbering about us, right. But I think because Harry Yo and Jay probably had a relationship, right, he was the one that instigated it, you did.

So yeah, yeah, that's crazy, man, That's kind of like and that's history. People don't never talk about because you would have never thought of you know, Big Michael Lord three two was at Death Row.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we was. We was there. We had man, we was having fun. Man, We was turning on me new people.

Man.

We learned a lot down there.

You know, we left, We left our mark down there, right, And I just wish that we was able to see it through right and finish the whole thing up. But you know, things happened like they happened. You can't you can't live with regrets, right. We was able to go back home and still put the match down.

You know.

But yeah, man, it would have been lovely. We was able to release that Convicts record on death Bro. It would have been super dope.

Yeah.

Yeah, we had with Warren g one G.

We had.

We had the song on that motherful with Snoop.

Man.

It was early in the game.

But I know that that one is released on It's it's floating around there on line. It's called playing for Keeps. Yeah, we Snooped three two one G on the track. Yeah, but it was it was early production though, but that one is out came from good to hear it after so many years.

Man. Warren used to do a lot of sampling back then.

Everybody was sampling back then. Oh yeah, definitely, the just sampling back then. It wasn't just samplings. Niggas was able to chop them up, you feel me, But niggas was sampling was still keen back then.

Well yeah, like a mother. It seemed like that sh it is a lost or. But you know what when you went back down there to to wrap a up, was the Ghetto Boys offer a life changeing situation.

In a sense, right, I mean to the point like, Okay, the Ghetto Boys had already was making strides, right, they had already you know, especially down in age time, right, and to come back and pay for the hometown team, I guess it would become like the equipment of a homegrown product getting drafted and playing for the Texans up playing for the Rockets.

Right.

That's how That's how I.

Have felt about it, you know.

But yeah, it was it was an exciting time, you know, the anticipation about it and everything.

But yeah, that's how that's how I felt about it.

You know, I try to look at it like that, and and you know, I know at home it was well received. I don't know, some people say you know, you know they like the inner ration that Ghetto Boys were just really deep. Wish we can scar face. I could dig that too, But the Ghetto Boys was always like like like a franchise, right players, players leave you bringing more players, you feel me, And it was always like that. But for me, I was able to get my name out there. It led to me being in

So yeah, So at the completion of the Ghetto Boys album, you're like, hey, man, I want to offer you a solo deal for your services or yeah alreadyod or he came, he came, you have to get a boys out.

And before you answer that question, Jay was behind the Death Row record. So what made him go, no, fuck that, come over here and do this Ghetto Boys record?

Say that again.

So Jay was in support of y'all as the convicts, going to get on the row and do a project over there. Yeah, why did he turn around and go fuck that, come back home and do this Ghetto Boys project?

He didn't, he is he didn't say, he wasn't like fuck that, right, not in that sense, But it was separate fe okay, getting it wasn't yeah, continuing on me still performing or releasing the project with the convicts?

Right? But was it was? It?

Was it the fact that the Convicts project on death Row wasn't taken off fast enough? No? No, Is that what made you go back home and say fuck that? Or was it just I didn't really say for but that's what made me go back home? Like I said, I had already had had a couple.

Of children, right, so I had I had responsibilities.

I didn't, you know, I wasn't.

I didn't.

I didn't have the luxury of just hanging around and not being productive, you feel me? For a year, a year or two or whatnot. You know, I was trying to get in motion. So when the opportunity came, I guess when Willie D had left the group, and you know they probably took self inventory, right honestly, Right, if you're a CEO, you're gonna look round the label and be like, you know, who else can I get to fit the trio?

Right?

Because that's how the Ghetto Boys were operated, right? So my name, you know, it came to me, you feel me, it came to me. They hit me up when we was in La. Like I said, I didn't jump on it right away. I had thought about it. But then when things exactly like you said, when things had to when the production slowed down on the basically came to a hope on the Convicts project, right, I was like,

It was, it was, it was, it was, It seemed it was the right move at the time.

You feel me, it was lower three two salty.

I don't. I don't. I don't. I wouldn't say he was Sautsi. He wasn't saut Sea.

Yeah, think about it like this. He had you know, he over a death row and got a situation. Ain't nobody called him to come join the group. You feel what I'm saying? So you leave that kind of shorten his situation out, didn't it.

Free Too was already gone before I had left some three twos. He had already went back went back to Houston before I had that.

Wasn't the same thing. The records was taking too long.

So it was on that Ghetto Boys album He's on straight Gangsterism Altham. He he wasn't South and he was family. It was it was it wasn't like that.

We knew if if one of us get there, then all of us get there. He did what I'm saying, So it was it wasn't like that whatsoever.

Yeah, that makes sense. If he was, especially if he was gone already, he probably wouldn't.

Trust there was It was their other work going on a death row that was taking precedent over the convicts record is why it slowed down.

So when we got there, of course dra was already They was already formulated the chronate, right, So I think they had justin did the deep cover soundtrack right, putting together the chronic.

When Slope was able to be on deck right once.

He was on deck, then I think they just went full ahead with that, you know what I mean.

And that's understandable, right, So I was gonna have a.

Song of mine gonna be on there anyway, mister Officer was gonna be on there. Later I found out Drake had wanted to record that straight gangster rhythm, right, But I was always I was already in the process of recording with the Ghetto Boys, so I had bought those songs over there, and but let me see, not to get off track, but hit me with that that last part of that question again, like like, like I said, was there other records that were taking more precedent.

Over I was, Yeah. How many songs would you say? Y'all was deep into the Convicts record? Man, we probably like, like, well, damn, like when you start noticing shit was slowing down?

Mm hmm. Man, we probably had to record it like.

Maybe like four or five, like five songs between Slip and Unknown, right, and then we had the one from Warrant g So that's probably like six songs right there, right. How many songs was we putting on the album back then, ten or twelve? About ten about ten, Yeah, so I would say we was half played, right, but it was our pre production, right, it was reproduction, and then things had kind of slowed down. It was the incident that happened after things had slowed down that that Unknown was

What was the incident? Huh, who was the incident?

He got, he.

Got touched up, he got he got to Yeah, he came to the studio with us one night and it's darkest fucking the studio where you know, back then this.

Bitch black and this like, Nigga, why you got some goodnesses on?

Because we just kept we like, just why is this nigga win something like Okay, maybe he like you standing there for five minutes or so and you ain't trip, but we've been in here for about thirty minutes.

Nigga, This nigga still got his sunglasses.

Yeah, nigga, what the.

Fuck is going on? And Nigga pulled them glasses off. Nigga boom.

Yeah, man, I think it was behind, like the production had slowed down. I was, and we were like, hey, we ain't been to the studio.

This is exactly what was was told because Slip was a part of that, right.

Yeah.

From what I heard was he went and got some money from sug to start production on the Compix project. But in the midst of that, Slip was working on music to drive by with me. So Sugar is requesting these beats Nigga even took my money, so where's the beats? Anne kept putting it off, like, well, you know, I'm busy working on h record.

And once he heard that, Nigga okay, see I heard yeah, you're probably right right because I thought it was because the production had slowed down. Because it probably because when sug had asked me, I was like, should we ain't been to the studio? You know, and he was like, on who y'all been working with? I was like, man, we was working with Unknown with with slip and he was like, don't worry about it. I take care of it. Oh yeah, he took care of it.

Yeah.

And then one day when Unknown popped up we was going to the studio, he had them sunglasses on. Yes, yeah, he wearing them sunglasses for a minute, and when he got to his house, got to his studio, Bo took the sunglasses off. And that's when we found out what

Yeah, yeah, Hey.

We was like, oh, we couldn't believe we was here and this ship.

You feel me? But shout out the slipped and shot out the unknown.

I wasn't laughing at his situation, right, I was just recalling everything. But the brothers were still good brothers, you know what I mean. I enjoyed working with them cats. You know, I learned from everybody that be around, so I was definitely I definitely.

Picked up on some things and learned some things.

Man, and getting down over at West Coast Production, that really helped my float, You feel me? My float was already ready in the right direction, but that really helped refine it. You did, know what I'm saying?

Like you a good nigga dog.

Even though we didn't get to finish the project and stuff out there, I still learned some things right and was able to, you know, you know, upgrade my game a little bit from being just from being down there.

You know what I'm saying so.

But yeah, and sometimes when you're around other you know, when you're around other greatness in the make and you know, it just makes you refined and polished. Not that shit as a competition, but you know, being around motherfuckers who you feel have already set the tone for being you know great. You know, like, yeah, Dre was one of the motherfuckers. You know, Slip was one of the motherfuckers. Then being able to able to hang around you know, the Snoops in the in the Warren Gee's too, you know.

You know at the apartment.

Yeah, over there, you.

Feel me because y'all already, like I said, y'all were y'all were looked upon as some great niggas already so being because y'all were the first ones to represent a California West Coast label coming from Texas. You know how niggas felt about the Convicts early projects. You feel ready rest in peace my nigga three too. Funny, motherfucker.

Mike when they did put when they did put the three to the Convicts album out right, did they put a lot of promotion on that or was it just something that just kind of popped up?

No? No, no, they just they put it out there. We had we had little promotion, you know what I mean, But it wasn't like no major roll out or nothing like that. You had to be a deep uh rap, a lot records connoisseur, you know, as far as the convicts is concerned. You have to be a real nigga who appreciated underground hip hop. You know what I'm saying, Because, like you said, y'all didn't get there, and I felt like I was in that same boat.

A lot of us got mediocre motion because niggas really didn't know what to do with us. You feel me, you know, you have attention, You feel me. It that's valuable, right, motherfucker said.

Damn, I ain't even putting no money behind this ship, but they making noise. Yeah, it's you know, some people get it up front. Some people got to grind a little bit more.

Right, But you know, yeah, that's the That's the motto I tell my son today.

Like some some niggas get it like you'd be.

Like god, damn, like damn, that was fast, and then you look at itself and be like, Nigga, I've been grinding for a long time, But hey, fuck it. Sometimes it's just the way the route you have to go. Fuck it sometimes it's just like that, you know.

Y'all wound up doing a couple hundred thousand copies of the album nont you know.

On the Convicts album. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the Convince getting around.

Back in the days.

So that was a pre that was that was appreciated back in those days.

Though.

In those early hip hop days, you could sell two hundred three hundred thousand. Yeah, motherfucker, look at you like you know, okay, you know that was that was. You know, ship nowadays? Ship you you can't. You ain't pushing triple billion, nigga, you ain't ship?

Yeah, wea nowadays?

You know, then it's two hundred thousand. And that was a lot of money back then, because you gotta remember, man, I had a record store. Labels was getting anywhere between sixty seven dollars back then. Man, you know, put that up man it you know it made about one point five two million, yeah off that album, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, that's been changed now when you're collecting about what sixty seventy cents? You know the point then point nigga, don't know a point of seven cents and ship. So nigga, you getting motherfucking you're getting. You're getting what eighty nine points in the album? Nigga, you look up there, that ship add up to about a couple of cents. Then you're turning around and they charging you for every stamp, every phone call, every fucking promo tour. You think like, oh, goddamn,

Really you owe us out of that?

What out of that eighty six cents you getting, you owe us about motherfucking eight hundred and something thousands and shit. So you like, huh, but it just made thirty million dollars, Nigga, you owe us eight hundred and ninety thousand and some change out of that seventy two getting clazy nigga never recouping, and then the motherfucker turned around next year, go here, go another twoft give us another record you got with you nicking up advances in that show Gotta eat off that.

That's how you gotta live.

You gotta figure right away, like Homa, get my shit recorded, beat all that shit with this budget, and put some of this money in my pocket because I'm never gonna see a royalty check off of this project.

Never.

Never.

I don't give a fuck. I gonna sell two million copies and motherfucking make them about forty fifty million. I still owe these niggas three millions. I have provided you with a real budget. Yeah, I don't put out two records, and I'm still in the red three million, and that's got to come out of seventy two cents.

Like like to learn, but you learn not to ask for so much shit next time.

Right, I don't.

I don't need this this city, going to work with producer this and that. Yeah, fucking ads and the magazines, fuck all that shit, man. Right about now, I just want to go off a world of mouth for the streets, fucking because y'all charging a nigga for.

Every game everything heighty they feel like they got to get get back.

Keep in mind, not only are they connected collecting everything back out your seventy two cents, but they probably an't already made anywhere for one and a half to seven eight million dollars already, just just already, and they still charge your game.

You sell them, You sell the motherfucking million copies for them. They they've done made some money because.

What some of them how many seven dollars album?

Yeah, that's thirty five million dollars album?

What some of them flipping? What nine ninety nine?

At the motherfucking one stops, they sending them up fourteen dollars thirteen.

Up?

They steal some of that, gangster Yeah, that's straight right there. I just do. Going into One Stops, nigga, I'm like, who album is out? Oh?

Yeah, let me get that, Let me get that one, Let me get that one, Let me get that one. Yeah, go to the label, fucking anybody who was on the label, nigga. I'm going shopping, nigga. That's how I get all my music. Fuck ghet up the label, going there?

Whose record out?

Oh?

Michael Jackson's record out? Yeah, let me get one of them for days? Who else is out?

So?

Yeah, because you ain't fing to see nothing, you better be smart and be able to budget that motherfucking advance they give you.

Stick some of that, stretch it out.

But then you know, you was able to get some money to get your published in right, and then after a while, you know them raw teas to catch up a little bit.

Right, but when you start figuring out the game, because just say, yeah, at least some of us as artists came in this game young and uh, it's it's fortunate now that a lot of artists are able to to gain from that having the knowledge of of what we had to go through because we was getting.

The game young, you was gonna get skinned.

Up published, Nigga, that Nigga published, Nigga, I thought you just get a check for I thoughn't you just get a check.

On the album covers?

And ship?

I'm like, what about being on the album covered? Check?

At you know what I'm saying that it's publishing and did you get your mechanicals?

And you're like, what the fuck is that you?

We didn't. We didn't know that. We weren't able to figure that ship out until later on down our lives and our careers and shipping. Unfortunately, you know, there's some motherfuckers out there still eating off your work because you know, you write, you you wrote the songs, you did the music.

You know.

It's just that we came from that era that certain niggas felt like they deserved that more than you, and you the motherfucker who produced that situation. You know, a beat you might have undead, or a verse you might have wrote. Now youvene wrote every fucking verse on your album and you look up in somebody else's claiming the publishing on it.

You know, I should even hit you to the game.

You feel me I'm a hit you know, But.

I don't know. Let me ask you this eight.

If you was in a position back in the days to be a CEO, right, you win the head, You wasn't behind the mic, right right?

Right?

You got young, it's got some talent, you sign them on up. You gonna hit him to the game, or you're gonna let him learn through trial and error.

Coming from the era that we came in, I'm gonna beat uh the CEO because, like I always tell the motherfucker, the object of that situation, as me as a CEO is to retain uh most of what we need as a company. And I'm gonna feel like in certain some situations now it all depends on how knowledgeable the artist is.

I didn't have the guy.

You know, my mom frowned upon that type the shit I was trying to do.

At least you was on a major label, Mike, I give you. You didn't get no advance for that Convice album? Did you not?

For that Convicts?

We was you know, we was able to go in there and get fifteen hundred here, you know what I mean. One of those situations. Listen, to stay off this corner. Main, I need to have some money right, I ain't going to finish this.

Record if I get caught up there on the block right now, you know you got to go make that kind of stance, right, But yeah, no, it wasn't.

We didn't. We didn't.

We didn't.

We didn't get no no quote unquote advanced for the convicts record. But you know, we're hungry, be we was hungry, and we were just trying to put in some work so that we can get out there.

Naturally, we don't, we are we are. We come in the game.

Ninety percent of us that come in the game, we're not adept to you know, the business side of it, right. We just were really being trusted, right, going off, going off off. The people that we ride with decided to sign with their reputation right in the game, right, were looking at their success and were looking at it like, naturally, they want the artists to have success, right, they want the artists you feel me to to, you know, to come up right.

It's a good look. But you know.

When it comes to that pin game, man, they whipped you with that pen and they make you learn on your own right.

To be just to be uh, not to be biased about the situation, but it was no difference between RAPP and being on Sony or Big beat Up under Epic or whatever.

Yeah, it wasn't.

It wasn't even.

Like like like once I became knowledgeable about situations, but now I was on Sony in Capitol and got fucked for my first three hour. Nobody felt justifirebowing going this dude's writing all this music or whatever nigga I was getting somebody is somebody is getting picking up a check for two hundred and fifty thousand, and I'm going home with five grand in my pocket.

You get me.

There was no difference because it was an independent and a major. If a nigga could fuck you, they were gonna fuck you just period until you took a stand.

I would say they would definitely take advantage rules. But I tell you that all the day.

You feel me.

Still.

We have discussions about nigga's character today and how a nigga should be more you know, And I tell you shit, in this day and age, if a nigga can fuck you, he's gonna fuck you unless you know your business and know where you're coming from. If a nigga go, yeah, we got five, I should give him two fifty and take my two fifty.

But you a way to give him seventy five and that just you know what, man, I'm.

You get me unless you know I got.

That this one.

You don't know that that five I'm gonna figure out away now you saying that a nigga should just be credible and go, I got.

This five for us to fifty you to you, but go, yeah I said.

That, But now five is in my hand and it's like he don't even know that it's the file, right, this all.

Look at it, this all, look at it. I look at it like this. All right, we got that five? Unless say I'm the label, right, Okay, I gotta pay for his studio time. Let's say, okay, I don't spend ten on the studio, right, I don't spend this that I don't been giving them money, but.

Fifty let's say I don't. Let's I don't spend fifty thousand, right.

Yeah, I'm gonna say, okay, you know what, I'm going to take three hundred this because you know, I gotta get my little bit of money back and I gotta make some money, and I'm gonna give you the other two hundred. You know the rest of it, right, you know what I'm saying.

How they gonna give you that seventy five good?

Not just give a nigga.

That's kind of like right there, that's just a nigga's mentality.

That's just it's it's like the bigger, the bigger the prize, the lesser nigga want to pay you for your contribution. And you could have you done done just as much, and and and I don't know why their mentality was this way.

You get me.

I have no idea when I first came in the game and I'm sitting up in the studio late nights and not seeing my kid, and not going to the hoods and participating in my activities with my my neighborhood, and you know, moms is tripping, I'm missing school. I didn't do all of that. So a nigga could go, he should get this, but I'm.

Not.

Just what because you the you, You the nigga who found me and walk me through the door.

I'm still putting in the work.

Though, it ain't like I'm just sitting here and in like like like a put together superstar. Right, were gonna get your wardrobe, We're gonna get your songs written. We're gonna get your music done, we gonna get your hair done. All you gotta do is sit there and when we go action, you do no nigga like create. I'm in there trying to figure out, Okay, what is gonna what is gonna make me?

Oh you know?

Oh Damn.

I listen to this nigga song and his ship is all on that. I gotta come up.

And Nigga's sitting in there at at three o'clock in the morning, and I'm missing my kids functions and I don't do this and do that all because I'm trying to create and be this artist. And when the money hit the table, you think you should take eighty five percent.

Of it, Like God, damn dude, Like I don't like.

But some niggas mentalities idiots like that. Some niggas is like, Nigga, we and this together. We started this shit.

Nigga sua like that, right, half Familion hits.

It's like, damn, I got this, just brought in five right, But he wasn't even brought in this five if it wasn't for me, not like it's a partnership, right. Some niggas had that mentality if it wasn't for me, and that's how that's how I felt like. Remember that night we had the homie on there and he was like figuring, he figuring, like, Oh, I'm the label, so without me, nigga, you can't get shit done.

Nigga's gonna write some songs. Yeah, we're gonna getting studio and creation. So artist, if I wouldn't a dope, artist should not put it out, but guarantee you somebody gonna hear this shit and go we gotta do. Don't feel like if I didn't have this label, you would never be who you are as an artist?

What do you mean?

You can't do shit? You can't create a song, you can't make a beat.

All you got is is a motherfucking mouthpiece and a little more dollars than I have. And if I was smart enough and was knowledgeable, I'd be independent, like you would start my own.

Shit that you got money and you got a mouthpiece.

Right, but this.

Right, if you don't like your status as the label and as the whatever is where, well I should collect ninety percent. What do you mean if you didn't have this song, in this beat, in this artist, what would you promote?

What would you mouthpiece.

Well, you know what the crazy not not to cut you off a but you know what the crazy part is they almost just they justify all of that, the economics and how they do stuff and the structure of the deals because probably only one in five artists gonna be successful at the label. Think about all them records that Wrap a Lot put out? How many of them records? Actually? So, Mike, you think a lot of that ship was selling like that?

Do you? But do you? But do you qualify?

Huh?

Rap a Lot had a following?

Right?

So the label itself, you know, the labor itself was seeing some was seeing some income because we had they had a lot. They had It was quite a few art this song Rap a Lot, right, and Rap a Lot had a following, you feel what I'm saying? So they they Rap a Lot ship.

But like I saw some crazy CDs from him, Like I saw a white midget with a snake around his neck. Like it was supposed to be like an off brand version of the Ghetto Boys or whatever.

That's why did you try master Pie? Did you try the master Piece? It beyond the Ghetto Man?

And but yeah, yeah there was my homies though, but but yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like a spin off from the Ghetto Boy exactly.

But and everybody was.

But when you meet those guys, they was, they was their own original.

You feel me right.

That's where the comparisons stopped, just at the the optics of it, you feel me, But everybody had. Everybody had aspirations and hopes and dreams man as an individual and things like that, you know. But unfortunately, just like other artists that came be for the hip hop era, right, we talk about blues, R and B jazz artists that that was dealing with the music industry, you know what

Right.

But it's not always like that because that money. You feel me when.

They when a person is on got their own aspirations, right, and you're just a byproduct of that, you're just a means of you know what I'm saying, to help them get to where they want to be. Right. But you're like, okay, that's cool, right, because sometimes you got to get with somebody to get somewhere.

Right.

But at the same time, at the end of the day, you want to walk away with something as well.

You feel me like you say.

Hey, you don't want to be dedicating all of this time, all of this effort, right, all all it because it takes a lot of emotions to put them songs down, be in the studio, you know what I mean, all them hours and and and they do me we do music quick these days. And then it wasn't so quick to be put together.

The song you feel Me Niggas is recording on reels and everything. But it's it's a learning experience, bro.

And look we got more knowledge about it now, right. Some people came out less gay than others, right, But you know, it's just it's just one of them things, man. And but look look at them now. You know they able to go at least they able to go get a larger bag.

Right.

I wouldn't say workers of the business didn't change it's just enough month, it's just enough money to put bigger bait on the hook.

I guess you feel me right real, Mike, let me ask you this, man, So you went on the run.

I think a lot of people forget you put all three more records on rap a Up. You put off some serious and on that some serious album. You was the first one to really start fucking with PIMPC.

That So I had met pimping them before we had came out to Los Angeles, so we had already knew the matter of fact, I was the one me and three two. We brought their music out there right and stooping them.

But I own that ship.

You feel me because let me get this tape. You feel me like man gone the niggas and the niggas U gally K. But they was already our homies before we had came out there. But I'm thinking because I had PIMC on the album. He did the hook on Halving Things, and he produced it. He produced the track. I had initially sung the hook, but after we finished the after we finished the song, him talking to me and talking and I'm hearing his voice, and I was like, man, to give the song more texture.

You should go off in there and sing that hook.

You feel me?

Yeah, I said you should go off in there and sing that hook. And then Bun he was on the song car on the one. I should have both of them on the same song. I don't know why I broke it up like that, but it's the way that it had happened. Him had produced to having things we was working on there, and I just got him to do the to do the hook. But I'm just trying

So yeah, well I'll tell you what I think you broke PIMC as a producer with that because I was hit the ug K. And that's how the rap a lot of music. That's how a lot of music got around. You hear one of your homies playing it, especially if they're from somewhere else. My homie Quentinsino, he was from Texas. He's Orange Texas and he was playing a short Texas record. But you GK yeah, back back back, I said, who was that? Man? Who was that? He dubbed me a

Oh yeah, definitely, some music got it down at a lot of UH, A lot of unknown ship and a lot of what we consider underground UH got promoted just by having word of mouth. And I would go to Mississippi and my cousin would have shipped from the East Coast. I never heard, and so I would dub that ship. Or I would come back to La hit up the Paramount Swap Meet and go digging through their twelve ventures

You get all the.

Good doing them doing their mother fucking family reunion trips back to Mississippi. That's how I was connected because my older cousin he listened to a lot of East Coast music, so I didn't know about it, none of that ship. But I would listen to Ship in his car and then at the house on his record player, and then

But that's how I got store. You ain't got to get the record, but you're going to see if it's there country music section, and come back and get my ship, because I know fucker they go taking the country music this motherfucker this record, come back.

And get my and all.

But yeah, man, that tape game was serious.

Back then, boys used to have trash bags for the motherfucker cossets. You hear me, mother didn't, but you knew which was on each one of them motherfuckers, you know. But yeah, those those those those were simpler times back then.

But you know, for a minute though, Mike, you was probably rapized big as artist for a minute for for for a second there, because some Serious went platinum, didn't it.

Some Serious did some numbers.

Yeah, some Serious went big because because Scarface hadn't dropped no ships yet, and you was like they maind for a moment, I bet they was treating you different as a motherfucker.

With scar Face was already established. Yeah, Face was already established face Face Face was he was the flagship artist there, he was, sure.

But you know what I'm saying, when you dropped some Serious, he hadn't dropped nothing. You were kind of dropped both.

What you mean he had he had, he had solo albums already.

Yeah. But when some Serious dropped Scarface and ever album all at that time, I don't think not a new one.

He probably was working on it.

Yeah, That's what I'm saying.

Well, you as a you, as a label at in that position, you probably wouldn't want to have uh two of your big artists uh out at the same time, because it's really gonna contradict sales because for those for those niggas who you know are unable to uh have the benefit of purchasing both rock chatter time. Now I have to make a decision of what I want to saying until my next check you get being out at the same time, is gonna really contradict the label and sale.

You get me.

You couldn't stop that competition. You just hope that fans would gravitate to your ship more than the next party. But if y'all both on my label, hell no, I'm gonna keep y'all releases at least six months apart.

Yeah, Mike, I got one more question for you, man. So hard to hit? Was your last album on rap A Up, wasn't it? Yeah? Hard to hit? After that? You didn't have a lot of other ladys trying to come and get your procure your services.

Well, I got hard to hit. That's when I got locked. I got locked around that time. But it was interest right, some other labels right looking to pick me up, you feel me? But after right after I lived with that, I got when I got my rap a Lot, that's my locks. I was on the run. But why they're catching up with me?

But but yeah, I had got locked around that time, so it couldn't make no deals happened feeling from behind the balls.

How many years did you do? I did? I did? I did? Folk?

Yeah, was your situation? Was your situation of getting locked up? Was a result of the decline in music, or was it just some other ship that you had already had

It was a situation that kind of like a rose right, just some typical shit contractual talks, you feel me, right? And it was a situation that it caught me by surprise.

Do you feel me? The situation caught me by surprise, and and I had to react.

Right.

When I come sit down with y'all, then we can go more in depth. But if I was putting a situation where I had to react, right, you feel me? I was dealing with a grizzly bell, grizzly bear, attacked me right right, there's the bell gonna come back.

You feel me if I.

Don't, don't make against the grizzly bear.

And you did, right, But like I said, we'll go in to detail about it. But yeah, it was a situation me and the label it had got ugly. You feel me slid into some gangster ship and you know that's what that's what eventually led to my my incarceration. Yeah, my part in it, you feel me.

Yeah, you got up for retel you know, some ship.

Basically, Yeah, but it's all good. I took my leak. Yeah, especially when.

When you're put in a situation to where it's either put up or shut up, and you're feeling like, you know, hey, this is what has to happen. Ship, you give me like, ain't no if if it ain't no infens or but about it, I'm just this is just the way it go down, fucking and I might have to take my liquor whenever it comes to it, you have to take especially in the case like that, right, And I'm just

Now me thinking about it now, right, maybe I could have finessed the situation, right, but I'm a young man, right, stay different. Yeah, my mind stayed different. I'm a young man. I'm hurt, I'm in baddis right, I'm looking at I survive, thank God.

Right, But.

It was the chance that I might not have survived.

Right.

But but the Lord Jesus Christ, he had something else in store for me.

Right, So.

But still I even with that, I didn't realize that till later. I didn't realize God's hand in it till later. Right, I was going to strictly off the emotion. You feel me, and I'm retaligating it on the streets. My move is justified. Exactly on the streets, my move is justified. You did what I'm saying. You gonna tell any other care you put it that, nigga, be like man, I would have had to do what I had to do.

You feel me?

So on the street, move was justified.

And that's that's the rules I was playing by coming from the streets.

You feel me, People think about your career. You an'y think bro?

Hell now yeah, like you feel me? You understand I ain't thinking about none of that. I got to get these motherfuckers off of me.

I think people get a man before you anything else.

Exactly, you know. But like I say, you know, I took my knee here.

You feel me still living my life getting older, and that itself, that too was the experience as well.

Right.

So I got I got, I got, I got, I got real time testimony, right, And I'm just being short with everything because I am working on I'm working on a memoir. You feel me, and I want to just sitting there, so I do want to leave some things, you know.

That's why I'm being shot like that. I know y'all kind of tell I'm being short.

Still still be trying to hit you with questions to kind of like, but I got to be short with you right now.

Still we'll talk. I gotta be something for the literature.

But yeah, man, people you know, people basically got an idea of.

What happened and things like that.

You know.

Yeah, man, end up going.

To the penitential, getting back out, having go through the whole struggle of reiterating myself back in society, getting back on my feet.

You feel me, I won't even say unfortunately, but for.

Me, I didn't have that fan fare waiting for me like that, Like some rappers go to jail and then niggas get out hey waiting for them.

It wasn't like that.

It wasn't like that for me, right, I think because why I was locked up, and this was pre social media, right, So motherfucker locked up, and you don't have homeboys that have access to the media, right, You had to have somebody that had access to the media to keep your TV shouting you out, you feel me, to even be able to go to the radio station, have a reason to be at the radio station where they can shout you out and things like that.

You did what I'm saying. So my niggas was in the streets.

They wasn't rappers and things like that, so they didn't have access to the media. You did what I'm saying, Right, I'm getting all of this through letters and pictures. That's how I'm getting my support, you feel me.

Right.

At the time, the source had reached out to me, right, and I was locked up in their paths, so and they wanted to they wanted to come interview me, but I didn't see how it would help my situation because I was going through a real situation at the time, right, and it was it was.

It was a real trial for myself and for my family.

You did what I'm saying, and I just wanted to go through it and get it done right, So I didn't see the benefit of sitting there being interviewed from behind. Boy and listen, I'm a studio head. I love to be in the studio creating recording. You did what I'm saying, even though I was in the I'm in the business to where we have to be in front of the camera, right and make ourselves accessible to the media and things like that. I was never Listen, I'll be shooting videos.

And things like that. Right.

I can get on staging through my thing, but all of that revolved around the music.

You feel what I'm saying, Right.

I could eventually get in there and get my mind right to do the videos, and I had got.

Better with it, but I was never that kind of cat.

Right.

That's why I'm a little bit behind with the social media, not because when it was happening, I wasn't. I didn't gravitate towards it like that, you did, you know what I'm saying. So geez, So we got to ease into it, right, and then we were gonna we're gonna perfect where we're getting our bread at.

Oh, this is what we gotta do.

Damn.

You know what I'm saying.

The motherfucker go from there. But yeah, so I didn't. I didn't seek out the media or nothing like that. Right, people be like, you know, man, come down here and interview me. I just wanted to get through that. We got with my family, you know what I mean? And and I did. I wanted seven year sentence and I didn't have to stay the whole seven, right, I did the rest in the streets.

So that was a blessing. And I learned a lot down there.

My relationship with the Lord crew, right, I'm sure that he didn't want me behind bars, right, but it was other things in my life, right. I was undisciplined, right, and he was giving me time on my own to to to correct that, right. And then sometimes you got to sit down, right, you got to suit you down

I saw him moving my life in.

A real way, and and and and that's part of my testimony. And maybe that's why I was placed in the line of fire like that. Right, Maybe it's bigger than all the pieces on the board, right, all the people involved.

Maybe it's bigger than all of that.

Right.

So I'm able to do that now now that I'm past the the letdown of it, the anger of it all. Right, now I'm able to you know what I mean, to really see the workings of it and pull the positive up out of it.

You know. But yeah, it had gotten.

Into some gangster ship. It was real, dope, it was real, do you know what I mean?

So you know, yeah, Man, we go ahead, this sit down in person, man, like we talked about this. This is a precursor of that.

Man, it's crazy, right, I'm gonna get out there.

I'm gonna get out there and fuck with y'all. Man, Definitely, we're gonna sit down. And by then, man, I've been had had this music that I've been working on, so I could lay on y'all and we could talk about that as well.

Yeah, Mike, you gotta get Mike on a new album though, Yo, you.

Already know, you know, I ain't.

I know when the time is right, it's gonna happen. You feel I know when the time is right, it's gonna happen. But maybe the time is coming. Though it's coming.

That's easy right there, for sure, Mike, Man, he said, Man, we gonna get back together and do this. Person. Man, we don't have you in here for hours some change, y'all. I only asked you to give me our You gave me so much more. I feel like if we don't stop, we're gonna keep on going.

And I got to get back to these playoffs lame.

Right quick.

This salute man, Love y'all brothers, man, and I see y'all on the other side all ready.

You know we got here all reck