TGI 654 - Hell No Operator

Welcome to the Gamers Inn. Come on in, pull up a chair next to the fire. It looks like you've had a long journey. I'm your host, Jocelyn, and joining me as always is my co-host, Ryan. Hello, Ryan. Hello, Jocelyn. How's it going? It's going pretty good. I've had a full house this week. Lots going on. I'm on vacation from work, but I haven't really played anything new.

Oh, sorry, guys. I have one game to talk about, but it came out last year, so nothing too new. Although we have been playing Frosthaven. which is the sequel to Gloomhaven, the board game that I think I talked about like probably three or four years ago now. Maybe more than that. Yeah. I don't remember. Anyways, a long time ago, I talked about Gloomhaven. Yeah, we're playing Frosthaven now, which is like the, I guess the sequel narratively to Gloomhaven. So instead of it being gloomy, it's icy?

it's icy exactly yes exactly so uh i mean we've only just gotten into it but it has like it's all the same sort of like mechanics and stuff it's just a new location new narrative um new enemies that kind of stuff but Same basic mechanically. And yeah, it's really good. But yeah, so I've been I've been board gaming because we have actually Manny is here helping us do some work in the backyard. So if you're quiet, you can hear him. Can you hear that? That's Manny in the background. Quiet, but...

Yeah, so we've been board gaming in the evenings, so I don't have much to talk about. Game-wise, like I said, I did play one thing. I played The Operator, which actually came out a year ago. I hadn't heard of it, but I wanted more in that puzzle-solve-mystery-type genre. So I picked up The Operator, and I was actually really excited about this game.

Like the others, I didn't read a whole lot into it because you never know when you're going to hit spoilers and spoilers can totally ruin a game like this. So I was like, you know what? I'm not going to look into it at all. And I kind of wish that I had. Although, like... I did look at the review scores and it was like very positive and almost 10,000 reviews. And so I was like, OK, great. This is going to be great. This is another one in the same type of genre. I'm really in this.

resolve puzzle solve mood let's go ryan i don't think i've ever played a shorter video game oh ever like i played it i think on steam it says i i have 6.8 hours on steam and that's only because it has the same stupid thing where you can't like exit in the middle of a day and otherwise you'll have to replay it so i had to leave it sitting open for a few hours while i went to do something else my actual game time was probably about three hours start to finish like roll credits done um

Which I found super disappointing because it felt like the game never really got out of the tutorial. There were some really interesting like puzzles and mechanics. But it never went anywhere. It was more like walking simulator, except instead of walking, you were just clicking. I don't know. I was kind of really disappointed. Now, I say I was disappointed is a very, very small experience. It, I think, cost me like $15, I think, Canadian.

and gave me three hours of entertainment so like that's not terrible that's longer than a movie and it was interactive but at the same time i was expecting like

you know, 15 or 20 hours, like the narrative just felt really spoon fed to you. And yeah, it was not what I was expecting, given all the positive reviews. And I actually went and read a bunch and I was like, did i play the right game because these reviews are talking about like narrative masterpiece and blah blah blah like all that kind of stuff and i'm like have you guys read a book ever because like this was

super straightforward like there was no twist there was no turns there was no like like there was a big reveal but like if you paid attention for two seconds it wasn't a big reveal so Yeah, I was like, I was actually kind of really disappointed in it because I felt like it had so much potential. Like they could have. given you like expanded on that story and taken it other places and kind of fleshed it out a bit and had a really good like even 10 hour game

But the fact that I went like start to finish in three hours, I was just like, and there's no replayability. That was the other thing is I was like, OK, there's a there's an achievement for rolling credits. so if there's an achievement for rolling credits maybe that's like you should go back and play more like there's more to see there's a branching blah blah blah whatever no there's no branching narrative there's no nothing

There are there are kind of like a fail points where you don't get an achievement if you don't do it properly. But the story still continues on the same path. I was like, okay, so it's three hours, no replayability, feels like a tutorial for what could be a really great game. Why are all the reviews what all the reviews are? I really, really thought I was missing something here.

It is interesting because there is like, you know, I'm looking at the Steam page and one of the discussion, top discussion that just recently posted, maybe this was you that posted it, but it's just. The post is that was all question mark. To be fair, I did not post that. That was not me. No, it's one of Jocelyn's burner accounts.

It's, it's interesting because like, I think narrative games have like, especially like the, when you look at this game, it reminds me and steam is even telling you like, Oh, if you liked.

uh telling lies in her story the the sam uh i think sam barlow games is yeah yeah like those are uh and immortality i think as well those are like i hated that one okay but the other two were decent but i hated um yeah the immortality one it was it was a bit much uh but like what those games have is this like you know de-synced exploration putting the story together as you discover it as part of the discovery sounds like the operator was going for a similar vibe but it is a linear story like

It just kind of all unfolds, right? Yeah, and you're not even on a timer. It's like once you hit a certain discovery, it will end your day at work. Because the whole premise is that, like, you're working for the FBI, but they call it something different. It's like the FDI or something, like, whoa, original. But you're working for this, like, government agency.

And you're basically trying to help the agent solve crimes. You are the like researcher behind the scenes. Like, have you ever seen Criminal Minds? Yes. Yeah.

yeah and you know the the girl with the the blonde hair and she's all kooky and she's got all kinds of cool like makeup and and accessories and stuff and she's you know always had her nails done and tippy tapping on the keyboard and she's the one doing all the research and getting them all the information you know her yeah she's the operator right yeah she's the operator so you are her i'm totally blanking on her name right now but um

I also haven't watched Criminal Minds in like 20 years. It's been a while. But anyways, the one that gets called into by the agents to be like, hey. can you analyze these photos can you find me this thing i need you to get this name like you're that person so it's kind of like a research role which could have been super interesting and they could have had like so many other cases for you to interact with.

But there's like, I think there's two agents and your boss and then like your boss's boss are the like only characters in the game. And the cases end up. a slight teeny tiny spoiler alert the cases end up all related to each other so you're not even really in the end working like multiple cases you're working one case with like multiple locations

which again is fine, but like, I don't know. It just, there is like an additional element, like a hacker-ish element to it, but like none of it felt like. it was taken as far as they could have and like i say i think they had a tutorial for a really great game here but they just like i don't know didn't have enough story to tell got too pigeonholed like i i don't know i just found it really unsatisfying

because what they did do was so good and so interesting. But then I was like, okay, I figured out this one thing. Where is this going to take me? And, you know, you thought that you would be doing the same thing, but it would be getting more complex over time. And that never really happened. It's like you did the one thing and it was like, you did the thing. Moving on. I was like, oh.

okay so we're not coming back to that okay there was like one moment in the game that was i thought really good because you were on a timer it was super complicated they told you right from the beginning they gave you this like 100 page manual and they're like

You have 10 minutes to do this. You're not going to be able to read the whole manual. You need to be able to like read to the point where you get the information you need and then jump to the next point. Like, go, go, go, go, go. So I thought that was really interesting. And then I like went like Googled it after the fact. And even with that specific like moment in the game. There's only one solution. You could have literally just looked it up and entered in the like the answers.

And I was like, man, this really had like a randomly generated feel to it. It's like it felt like somebody actually went and wrote 100 pages. of like interlocking interweaving puzzles that you had to navigate but no there's only one right answer i was like this is so dumb like this could have potentially been really really good i would have played just that over and over and over and over again as its own like game um and yeah they only used it one like one time so yeah i just found that like

Again, lots and lots and lots of potential, lots of positive reviews. But I feel like people who didn't see like the twist and the ending coming just have literally never. consumed media before because there was nothing remotely like hidden mysterious or groundbreaking in anything that happened okay i will ask this though because i know you

Maybe you don't think this about you, but I feel as though you have a really good – this is a good thing. Don't laugh. I really think you have this ability to have this foresight for story. or like in comparison to me like but maybe i'm just really bad at it and i don't know it's a combo it could be so you're saying i'm being too harsh on the internet

No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that sometimes when we do story games, I'll be like, oh, man, I didn't see that coming. I'm like, really? I had that chapter one. I'm like, I wonder. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's me just not catching on. fast enough like I'm I'm below average

No. Okay. You know what? Okay. I'm going to tell you the very basic bare bones plot. Do you think you're ever going to go play this game? No, because you told me to play it and I didn't. I played something completely different. Okay, so then I'm going to put a massive spoiler tag here for anyone who wants to actually go through and play the operator and experience it.

for themselves because i'm going to explain the bare bones story to ryan and then ryan will tell me if it is a straightforward story or not or if it's like super unexpected and twisty okay okay okay so um you are the operator There is a hacker named Hal who contacts you and seems to know a whole bunch of stuff about the internal operations of your organization.

There are two agents. There's your boss and then there's your friend who apparently like recruited you but also is like the head of the FDI. So there's a series of murders. And there's like this underground scientific conspiracy thing that you're trying to solve with these two agents. Somebody is on to you and you're supposed to just leave it alone.

And what other information did they give you? Oh, something about like, oh, like your apartment is being watched or something. And do you know what happens in the end, Ryan? Oh, is this where I'm supposed to guess or? So it turns out that the person behind this whole big conspiracy thing is your friend. Oh. And the happy person who knows so much about...

No, your friend is not Hal. Hal is actually the person who had your job before you did. Which, again, given the information that the hacker gives you, you're just like, yeah, okay, obviously. So, because there's like...

hints and conversations about oh someone else used to have this job and i'm so glad you were available last minute but like yeah your your friend is the bad guy because there's literally four people in this entire game and you're trying to figure out who might be the bad guy it's like obviously you know who the bad guy is you haven't introduced me to enough characters for this to be difficult to figure out someone put a camera in my house could it be the person i have had in my house

Or a super elite spy agent man. No, no, Ryan, no. Writing is not not that good. OK, well, the hacker's name being Hal is like incredibly original, right? Like, right. There's never been anything called Hal related to a computer. No. No, never. Did he sing, you know, the Daisy song? Is that another thing he did? I don't know what the song is actually called. Oh, the really big twist. Hal is actually a woman. Oh, twist.

metroid yeah like it is it is not that deep brian it is not it is a very very small and superficial story and mystery like it is if you're paying even halfway attention it's very very obvious from the get-go especially because they do that like tropey thing Where they lean into like, your boss is such a hard ass and nobody likes him and he rides you all the time and obviously he's the bad guy. Oh no, it was your friend all along. No. No.

See, I was going to say, well, maybe it's the boss that's the bad guy. But you're right. It's either the boss or the what a twist. It's your best friend. What was the friend's motivation for being evil?

oh i don't even remember like it wasn't that well explained it was just like this whole conspiracy about some scientific experiment the government was doing that they weren't supposed to and your friend was like in on it and was burying all the evidence and yeah whatever it was dumb okay well was it fun at least at certain points like i say like yeah the mechanics of it there were a couple points where the mechanics were really interesting except the thing was like you

You could basically only click on the stuff that was useful information. So that's another like tick against it mechanically.

is like if you're actually really trying to solve a like an irl case right like you would have a whole bunch of evidence that didn't point you anywhere like you would collect everything you'd have like fibers and and fingerprints and blood samples and tissue samples and fluids and everything, like anything and everything you could find at a crime scene, you would be gathering as evidence, right?

And then it's your job as the investigator to try to figure out what matters and what doesn't. And you never really had to kind of comb through anything and make that distinction. it was like because you were analyzing like video footage so you would just like click on a thing and it would be like zoom enhance here's the license plate and it's like okay

I clicked on the car and you could just like click around the video until like something like lit up. So again, like there was no like extra information. So that I kind of felt like was another hit against it because like. if you could have clicked on like at one point there's like a shooting in a bar so if you could have like clicked on like if there'd been like a bartender in the background that had nothing to do with anything but you could click on his face

Then like all his ID information, that would all be extra. You'd have to be like, oh, does the bartender have anything to do with it? I don't know. Like, let's look into him. Let's look up his name. Like, there was no like additional information you had to like weed through or weed out.

Everything that you found had a purpose. So then you knew everything was important and was a puzzle piece. And then so the puzzle gets a whole lot easier, right? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, that is unfortunate that like you're basically. You're given no sort of freedom to try to figure things out. It's like, oh, I've got a square piece in a square hole, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And that's probably, again, another reason for it being such a short experience, right? So if you have all the pieces to the puzzle and only a certain number of holes and everything fits perfectly, then... you're going to get through that experience just from a problem-solving perspective so much faster than if you had you know too many holes not enough pieces or vice versa too many pieces not enough holes like

you're gonna run into you know decision points and stuff if you've got things that need to actually be figured out but if they're like i need the name of this thing and you're like okay i have a list of names and here's the other information i have and only a couple of names are actually like will fit and are clickable then like just you narrowed it down

by the like restraints of the video game so much faster than actually trying to like solve a crime air quotes so anyways i mean it was fine again it was a 15 purchase like i'm not going broke over it but it yeah i had very very high hopes and expectations for this and it really didn't live up to it but maybe i am wrong because very positive reviews say that this is excellent storytelling so

maybe they're all AI. Maybe all the commenters are AI and they all played the game and they were like, whoa. I don't know how to write a story for shit, so this is amazing. I figured it out, guys. AI played this video game and thought it was great. Oh, maybe. I mean... Yeah, that's unfortunate because I know I know that I know that you're really into these types of games. So, yeah, yeah, that's that's unfortunate that it didn't land. I mean, you need the story to be.

good in these games because like the mechanics are one thing, but you know,

The story really is what keeps pushing you through the puzzles, right? Yeah. So, yeah, I really thought that there was going to be like branching paths or different endings or, you know, because... i would a hundred percent that almost makes it like a roguelike right where you're trying to you know see all the different endings and get all the different achievements and pieces whatever like i would replay a two to three hour

experience to try to see and experience all their different narrative paths if there were narrative paths so you know this game again like there were some points where like The outcome was either you got an achievement or you didn't get an achievement. And those could have maybe been explored further. I'll put it that way.

a thing either happened or didn't happen and if it happened you go down one path to an ending and if it did happen you go down another path to the end to a different ending like that would be interesting that i would have replayed a lot but yeah they're just again lots of potential not not really capitalized on which is too bad but good good concept it just felt like it was still a tutorial but anyways again

$15 for a three-hour experience. Not terrible. But if you are interested in this at all, I would wait until you can get it on sale. Although I do think it might have been... a free game it might still be a free game over on epic um so you could go and let me i can check that if you want to if you want to start talking about

Yeah, if you want to start talking about what you were playing and then I'll double check if it's still available for free on Epic. But yeah, I think I would wait for a sale, if anything. Yeah, definitely wait for a sale. I don't see it as as free. on epic anymore it's still uh 17 it is funny because i remember when you first told me about this game i i searched it in steam as operator thinking

You know, usually searches don't care for the in a title. The, yeah. But no, for folks at home who read the description of the podcast and thought, oh, Jocelyn played an early access tactical shooter. No, she did not. uh she played this game which is fine uh she did not enjoy it though so uh not free on steam wait for a sale fair enough yeah absolutely i would say yeah somewhere between like five and ten bucks would be decent for this

In my opinion. Yeah, and I saw that they pushed an update on Steam saying that it's available on Switch. I still didn't play it, but I did play a Switch game.

I actually played a Switch game on my Switch 2 because I realized that... Because there are no Switch 2 games? As of this recording, there is only Mario Kart World and a few others if you like GameCube titles. Those don't count. They don't, no, because you can play those on the GameCube. You know, maybe a Steam Deck. I don't know. I wouldn't know. But...

I did. I wanted to. So part of the appeal of the Switch 2 is also the performance boosts, the various performance boosts that are offered for Switch games, whether it is a free patch, a paid upgrade. or um you know completely new content now myself spending all that money on a switch to, uh, I leaned more towards the free updates. Uh, actually there's another tier. There's the game just runs better for some reason, no update required, but I did aim for one that got a specific update and I.

I have corrected a wrong that's been six years in the making. I have played The Legend of Zelda Link's Awakening on Switch 2, and I finished it. I basically... barreled through it yeah because i don't even think you talked about that last time no yeah it came out in 2019 it's a remake of one of my favorite most favorite uh portable zelda games

I actually spoke to it a little bit on the Patreon special that I did. We're talking about playing it on the Game Boy and basically a summer dominated by playing this Link's Awakening. The Game Boy was the only reason I was able to enjoy camping. I really don't like camping. But Game Boy, man, just a wonderful thing. But yeah, I would think that I barreled through it.

because I remember so much of the original, but that is not the case. I really was struggling at moments because I forgot that this Zelda game deals with a lot of like...

I would say there are puzzles, but there's also, like, find your way through the game. There are a lot of hints and a lot of guides in the game that say, like, hey, you've done this. Now you need to go west. But there's also, like... a trade metagame throughout it that you know that story where that dude traded like a red stapler for a house but he had to do it like a bunch of stages do you remember that big news story

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that guy got the idea from Link's Awakening because there's a metagame in this where you're finding things and you have to trade.

for other things and it and it eventually gets to a point where you you get an item it is locked to progressing the game so eventually in the game you get to a point where it's like you can't progress because you're missing a key item turns out you were supposed to be doing this trade mini or metagame the whole time, uh, which included not joking, like finding, um,

a bow that you give to a chain chomp that then you get dog food that you give to a alligator that likes canned food that gives you a banana that you give to a monkey and there's really only that last part that that kind of makes sense uh you know it's a trope of course but like still like everything else i said before giving the banana to the monkeys sounded like absolute

bananas yeah and and that's the other charm of this game is like it is set on the this island and um it is very well established that this is a weird and out there uh zelda it's a dream scape style game where very clearly her link is trapped in a uh in a dream state um and there's all these wacky characters a lot of mario uh uh i don't want to say characters but enemies and elements yeah when you said when you said chain chomp i was like

What? Yeah. Wrong franchise, Ryan. No, there's there's Chain Chomps. There's Goombas. They even have the like. You know the fireballs that jump out of the lava in Mario with the little eyeballs? Yeah. They have those in this game. And I remember that from the original, but bringing it into 3D makes it just even weirder. because you've got a very clear top-down Zelda game, but then all these weird Mario enemies sprinkled in, and...

I don't know the story behind it. I don't know if it was related to... Because Nintendo would often shop these portable Zeldas out. I think Capcom did a bunch of them, although I don't know... I don't know if Link's Awakening is a Capcom game, but after Link's Awakening, I know that most of them were done by Capcom through the Game Boy Advance. I don't know about this one, but it is kind of weird. It's almost like the developers wanted to make...

Mario game, but also make a Zelda game and make it completely out there just to be different. That being said, it is first and foremost a 2D Zelda game. It feels like a variation of A Link to the Past. You know, the overworld map works the same way. Like it is revealed as you sort of walk through it. You're having conversations with characters and learning.

clues as to where to go there are traditional dungeons where you get the compass and the map um but you also get like a you can get like a hint item in the dungeons there's these little owl statues that are missing a beak

And if you find the beak, you can then talk to the owl statues and they'll kind of give you clues as to how to solve puzzles within the dungeon. So there's a lot of hint systems throughout the game, but I did find myself getting lost a couple of times where it's like... oh, in order to get past this moment, trade game aside, I had to wake up a walrus, and in order to do that, I had to find Marin, who is the Zelda...

place in, I guess. Zelda's not in the game, so I don't know why. I know why they call it the Legend of Zelda, but she's nowhere to be found. Maybe Link was looking for Zelda when his ship washed ashore, I suppose. Uh, cause that's how he wakes up on the Island. His, his ship is, he gets shipwrecked. Um, but anyways, you're looking for Marin and it's like, well, she's not in the village. I don't know where she is. So your options at this point are like,

Go look for her or in the age that is 2025 or even 2019 when this game came out, Google it, which is what I did. Going back to our conversation last week of like. playing on story mode and continuing to have fun? Or do I waste an hour trying to, to find, uh, this character who is like mysteriously left. And I tried talking to some people and they're like, Well, she was here a minute ago, and I'm like, not helpful.

a direction if i need to talk to people in video games they best be giving me hints a clue at least like you were here man i was off in a dungeon and like

You know, she could be in danger. Actually, I think one time she was stuck on a bridge or something, but another time she was just... singing with animals at the animal village so it's a very weird game there's like a lot of like it like it's it there's there is some weirdness to it but honestly i i had a lot of of fun with this and like i forgot how great it was to play like just a straight up traditional 2d zelda because we really haven't had one i think since link's awakening

remake on the switch because the Zelda one that came out echoes of wisdom like that's that's not yeah yeah traditional 2d Zelda it's still a 2d it's a literal 2d Zelda but like it's not like a traditional one with Actually, I don't know. I think it might actually have dungeons. I don't know. I never played it, but it had the mechanic of the copy.

one yeah you were yeah you were copying all the stuff and you know making your own minions to fight for you and stuff because zelda didn't actually fight yeah she could get a sword but it was temporary i think yeah it reviewed again i didn't actually play it it did yeah it did review really well it's on one of those things that's on my list to to get to eventually but yeah yeah and and and now that i've finished lynx awakening and i and i have to say this like

I think I remember when I originally played it, it did have some performance issues. The overworld, which is where you're spending a lot of time sort of moving between dungeons and solving puzzles, ran. Not great. And this is 2019. This is two years into the switch life cycle. So it's like, it's not like you were like, I'm going to save this for the switch too. Like that was still six years away.

Um, but I just, I, I put it aside and never went back to it. And I thought this was the perfect opportunity and, and I will say it, it runs. flawlessly like it looks great it's upscaled i think to it might be upscaled to 4k but at the very least like it runs with hdr and it's 60 frame solid and It's a beautiful rendition of what you would think 2D. If you take the SNES GBA graphics and make them 3D, I really do like that.

toy plasticky style that they've adapted to the 2d zelda i i think it looks really neat and unique and and it's it's cutesy for sure but like It has that like toy like kind of quality to it. And I know they did that for Echoes of Wisdom as well. And I like it there, too, from what I've seen. It's just it's such an interesting. I guess it's like some people might describe it as like the chibi style a little bit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like cartoony sort of anime a little bit. But like it fits for.

Like, if you remember those 2D Zeldas, like SNES, the GBA, like, this is the evolution of that. And when I finished it, I was like... It's kind of funny because we have a news story where the Switch vouchers are going away. It's like, oh, maybe I just buy one more of those and pick up a couple more Switch games that are...

that are still sitting there unplayed. Like I think Echoes of Wisdom would be a really neat follow-up to this because it would keep that same style, but like a completely different sort of gameplay loop with the... with the copying and stuff so i don't know i i really loved it i i couldn't put it down i was like i'm gonna end up finishing it this time like there's nothing standing in my way but i did like i said i did hit some hurdles with

you know, who do I need to Google? Who do I need to trade this can of dog food to, to get to the next stage? Like, uh, And it's weird. There is stuff that is strictly tied to your progression that is if you talk to someone and didn't remember what they wanted. But then oftentimes, like if you were doing it in a stretch, you did catch it. And it's like it made you feel like the best trader ever. It's like, man, I just did five trades from a from a.

a broom to a mermaid scale. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm rocking it. So, uh, damn broom to mermaid scale. Look out. I know. Yeah. You know, Link sometimes, you know, if Facebook Marketplace existed in Link's time, I think he would really, he would be, that's all he'd do. He just wouldn't go on adventures. He'd just find stuff on the side of the street. I can clean up this, this like.

You know, this, this lamp that someone left on the side of the street, I could resell this, make five bucks. Like that's all he did. Sorry. Five rupees. And he wouldn't need to go on adventuring. He just. pay other people links trading links trading post that's going to be the next Zelda game I think so honestly I for I I really did forget all about the trading mechanic and uh

It really did feel like that because you put your if you put your brain in where it originally came out, it was a portable game and it did have eight eight plus dungeons. So. it still had like the traditional sort of Zelda amount of dungeons and it had a fairly substantial overworld, but like for some reason it had this.

mechanic that kind of slowed things down to a crawl, especially if you didn't know where to go next. But Google's your friend. So if you get stuck, Google will tell you where to go. Just Google it.

Or you can listen to me and go to patreon.com slash thegamersin to support the show like Night Vale did. Thank you so much for supporting us for the month of July. We do have a monthly host special that's going to be going up on Patreon very, very soon. It is done. It's recorded. Ryan's going to gamer Xenify it and then it'll be going up sometime in the next week or so.

Go and check that out again, patreon.com slash thegamersin if you might be interested in that. Also, we have our monthly game night. Normally, it's the third Friday of every month, but because of our summer schedules, we're going to be playing on Friday, July 25th. We've put a poll now up on Patreon. So if you are a gamers and patron, you can go and vote as to what we're going to be playing on Friday, July 25th. Again, we're not streaming these. It's just patrons.

you want to come play if you want to come hang out we just do a gameplay stream straight into the discord And we're also going to be starting up a game club again soon, but we don't know what to play. So again, head on over to patreon.com slash gamers in because the game club poll is up there as well. Yeah, the Game Club poll, I'm just looking at it now. It looks like, well, four nights ahead by one vote.

I don't know if that gets people to go out there and vote for Fortnite or vote for something else. We still do have that other tab. And I see here that. uh lc has mentioned we play this repo game it's like a scary game i just i just commented scary game looks scary question mark so i don't know oh that's fun that's fun i mean maybe maybe we'll see i don't know but i like i'm not like yeah it looks it the if you look at this game it looks like it has

Sort of cutesy graphics. The bots look like, well, you should know this. What are the math bots from Netflix? The math bots. You know the math bots. Are they the number bots? What are they called? They're robots that do science, Jocelyn. Yeah, what you're talking about. They're like robots that do math.

What are they called? I think they're called the number bots. Anyways, it doesn't matter. Someone who's listening to this will understand. And then they'll look at repo. I'm like, oh, you're right. Netflix should totally sue them. So anyways. We might not do either. It does look scary. It was in my queue, my discovery queue or whatever, and I've ignored it.

It does look like it has some weird spookiness to it. That's for sure. I still don't understand. Even after seeing these bots, I still don't know what the hell you're talking about. Oh, math bots on story. It's called ask the story bots. I was confusing it. There are two things.

on netflix there's one called number bots which is like a more preschool show but ask the story bots is these robots they look like it look like cylinders with with like the south park canadians where their heads kind of pop off okay yep yeah anyways it's fine it's um you should watch uh storybots it's very good for kids it's it's a kids show oh okay yeah no that's definitely no idea what you're talking about but anyways uh yes game night polls

patreon game night and uh host special for july all coming soon over on patreon.com slash the gamers in so go and check it out that brings us to the news this week we finally have a conclusion to the sag act SAG-AFTRA strike. So that, I guess, has been going on for like a year, maybe more than a year. I feel like it was kind of around this time last year we started talking about it, but they've... have an agreement now they ratified it uh it was a almost i think 95 voted in favor of it so

We are no longer under a strike for the voice actors, which is great. And it was, again, all hinging on this AI piece, which they seem to at least be happy with the language in the agreement now. It was a major sticking point for... Everyone involved is studios want more and actual people want less. I'm glad that they've been able to actually come to an agreement because AI is such a sticking point in...

most creative collective agreements right now. So it's good to see one kind of come to a conclusion and actually be ratified because I think it'll... be kind of like a reference point or a cornerstone of ones to come after. I know there's one in Europe, a union in Europe as well, that was kind of looking to this agreement to form their own.

Yeah, hopefully, hopefully it's a good one. Yeah, no, I and you're absolutely right. I think the writers strike and the actors strike the Screen Actors Guild that took place over the last two years on the Hollywood side. it was also the sticking point was was ai on both on both fronts and i think it's no it makes perfect sense i mean we've talked about we've talked about ai a lot over the last year and you're right i think it's just gonna keep coming up

where there are unionized parts of the industry and where certain parts are not unionized. I think there's a story that I had read that we don't have in here, but... Related to the Microsoft layoffs at King, the folks who make Candy Crush, they had been working on an AI tool to help with creating levels for Candy Crush. There's a report out there that the whole team was laid off and in place they've used the AI tools that they were building to essentially...

craft these levels at a skeleton crew team. So it's exactly why, you know, if folks are in a unionized position, they are definitely... making a sticking point for these these negotiations and uh i think it makes a lot of sense and i think ai has its uses but i don't i don't think uh creativity is not it no a hundred percent and we've talked about that a lot like creativity is is not what what ai should be we should be focusing ai on as you said grocery lists and

What was the other one? Yeah. Emails. I don't know. Not even emails. I can't remember. But yeah, no, just like, yeah, anything that is mindless and yeah, not creative. Grocery lists. That sounds right. Yep. Just tell me where the cheapest place to buy broccoli is. Like, come on. Exactly. Exactly. Just make my life easier. Don't replace the fun parts of my life with yourself. Exactly.

unless ai is listening right now and gonna take over the world then absolutely you should have all of the funsies i support you 100 please don't murder me We've got a lot of Nintendo news tonight. A lot of Nintendo news. First and foremost is one that I actually saw floating around a lot on TikTok this week was the Nintendo Switch 2 owner who had their console banned.

After playing a secondhand copy of a game, because apparently the original owner, it looks like, had actually cloned the game. However, I legit do not know how you do that. I don't want to know how you do that. But apparently it is a thing that can be done. So after cloning the game, they sold the cartridge. And by buying the cartridge and putting it in a Switch 2, got the console banned. which basically it bricks it. You can't use it anymore, which is really shitty.

Over the top, in my opinion. And now this user who had their console banned did contact Nintendo and had the cartridge and was able to provide proof. And they said, you know, Nintendo was able to tell all kinds of stuff about them and their console and everything else, peripherals attached to it, all the rest of it.

And verified that they were the legitimate owner of the cartridge and unbanned the console. But because it had been cloned, that was what caused the problem in the first place. And I don't know, Ryan, you're a Switch 2 owner. This was kind of big news. The license agreement was big news when Switch 2 kind of pre-orders opened.

How do you feel as a Switch 2 owner? And I know like you and I are not the kind of gamers to like pirate stuff or do anything that would probably risk our console being banned. But I mean, like.

we've both bought secondhand games before like and yes this guy had to jump through hoops and did get unbanned apparently other people were told their bans are permanent um how do you feel as like a console owner who had to agree to these terms and conditions like you cool with this Well, I mean, I'm not cool with having a chance that your console can be bricked just because you put in a specific game card.

I think that if Nintendo can tell the type of mouse you have plugged into your Switch 2, it should be able to detect that you in fact did not put in a pirated copy. Like this is the thing. I think this is a scenario where us talking about it, IGN posting stories about it is going to make Nintendo. Think twice about this strategy. Look, Nintendo had a very bad but successful generation last time with the Switch where from a piracy standpoint, it was the number one pirated console.

in a very long time maybe since the dreamcast where i think you could literally take your dreamcast games and and they were not copyright protected at all you could just take the files off of it and burn it to another cd like it was It has been heralded as one of the reasons that console failed. But the Nintendo Switch was notorious for being... in that realm of people being able to get at the files and sort it out. I think it was hacked within the first six months, if not a year.

And we've done the stories with the emulators and they talk about on IGN here the various devices that people could use to play backed up copies or... In the case of some folks, probably pirated copies. But when I look at this, it's like Nintendo has set up this policy where with the Switch 2, they're like, okay, we're going to overcorrect here. And what they've done is they are...

I don't even know how they would be punishing the original person who dumped the game and then sold it. We don't know how they're detecting it. Like, is this a situation where someone... dumped the original cartridge, put it online, and then therefore there's an identifier there for Nintendo to tell this was a copy that has been put onto some...

websites uh and then and then they sold the game and then the only reason they're able to ban someone that puts it into a switch is because they know that specific cart was flagged because it was posted online Like, it's hard to say, like, is that because you're, you know, people have made this argument before. I should be allowed to backup media that I purchase. You know, there are various examples where people will.

You know, it goes to music, with video, with Blu-rays. Like every medium has this argument of like, if I purchase it, I should be able to back it up. Right, and Nintendo is basically taking the stance with not only their games now, but their consoles as well, is that just because you purchased it doesn't mean you own it. That Nintendo can still brick your console if you piss them off.

that's not necessarily a great situation to be in. I don't think in my opinion, I mean, I'm not a big fan of their terms and conditions. I don't think that they should be able to like, essentially like. cut you off from hardware that you've purchased like I don't know I really don't like this situation it doesn't feel consumer friendly to me at all and um you know like it really does i know we have a lot of people in the discord who are very you know into

physical media and you know wanting to purchase their games so that they can you know always own them always have access to them always play them and nintendo is effectively killing that and they're like nah you know we can turn your console off at any time well because we say so this is the thing like i i believe like i'm not defending nintendo in the sense that like yes these practices are overreaching 100 but at the end of the day

I really feel like if you're using the console as intended, you're going to be fine. Well, it's the policies, though, right? Yeah, it empowers them to take actions, even against people who are... using it correctly or whatever like it just their policies are such an overreach and you know like it i feel like it started like this is like the culmination of having to have an internet connection in order to play a single player game.

Which, like, as soon as we plugged consoles into the internet, shit got fucked. This is when, you know, people started overreaching. And then, you know, what you're buying isn't a game. It's a license. And, you know, like, you have the privilege of existing.

in nintendo's space like it really swung things from the consumer to the company and this i think is the culmination of all of that yeah no i mean and that's the case across the board for for xbox for playstation i think The biggest difference here is that the Switch itself was so moddable that you were able to basically play non-Nintendo. let's just say, authorized carts or digital downloads on your system. And they're able to tell that based on you being online.

But but yeah, like in this specific case, as I said, like this person who who is like and there was this Reddit post that came out a couple weeks ago that was exactly this. But it was like one Reddit post. It was like hard to tell. Is this a real thing? The commenter was dodgy in terms of providing proof. Like, I'm too busy to provide proof right now. But this...

This is a follow-up. This is an additional story. It's been vetted. It's posted front page of IGN. And like we're here now, this is happening. Again, I think this is the best way. to bring light to the story. Cause I agree with you. Like this situation is a person using the Nintendo switch to as intended playing a game that they bought, whether it's used on Facebook marketplace or used it EB games. Like, I don't think there's a difference.

Because I can trade in a game at EB. It's the same as Facebook Marketplace. This isn't just a Facebook issue. But the issue here is that this person is using their Nintendo Switch 2 as intended.

and are being punished for it they have no idea that this i we're assuming they have no idea that this cart has been cloned cloned again i don't know how we don't know how nintendo is able to detect that a game has been cloned and then thrown back into the wild like again i'm assuming that the clone the clone went further than you know just dumping it and playing it someone was saying that maybe they can tell that the same

physical cart is is being played at the same time therefore it was cloned and then they just banned both of them and whoever has the proof that they have the physical cart is able to get unbanned but i'll also say this even though this person was able to get their console unbanned, I have little to maybe 20% faith that Nintendo is going to do that every time in the right scenario.

Like I'm not putting my faith in Nintendo to do that correctly because they may have really good customer support in comparison to the other big two, but I still don't want to have to reach out to Nintendo. issue by the way i i still haven't heard back from them it was like we're three weeks now

And I still, it was supposed to be 24 hours, three weeks later, still haven't heard back from them. So that's great. So I'm canceling all my shit and Microsoft can eat a dick because I am done. Like, I do not want any of their hardware. I don't want any of their, like, I'm over it.

yeah and and that's that's a scenario of like game pass just not working like in like in the case of like if your actual purchases stopped working like that would be yeah now like now imagine if because it's all tied into my windows it just bricked my pc because microsoft was like oh something's weird with your account here we think that you're a bad actor so therefore now your copy of

Windows doesn't work anymore. Like such a slippery slope. And especially for these companies that are involved in more than just gaming. Like, oh, no, hate it. I know. I'm out. I'm out. Yeah. Now, again, I really think that. Folks talking about this bringing...

This is the natural follow-up to, again, you said their terms of service being talked about and how they were changed to be very much like, hey, if we detect you're doing anything with our hardware or software we don't like, we can ban you. There was there was concern then of like false positives. I mean, in Nintendo's eyes, this isn't this is probably not seen as a false positive because they're seeing a game that was cloned and put back out there. But.

Again, I worry. If you ask me, am I going to go buy used Switch games? Probably not. Probably not. Not that I was, but I certainly won't pick up the practice because this is... it's not worth bricking my $800, even if it is just banning the console from going online. Like that's, that's these days is such a large function of the console. It's effectively bricked. So.

Yeah, this is I was really hoping this was just like Reddit points, but this now appears to be the real deal. So hopefully Nintendo is able to address this, but. But I also wouldn't put, you know, much faith in that happening. This is likely just going to keep happening and Nintendo is just going to be like, buy Splatoon 4. And I'm like, okay.

i mean i'm not gonna buy splatoon 4 but like i i don't think nintendo's gonna change their mind here because in their eyes they put up with a lot last generation in terms of their own doing like the switch was Again, easily hackable, and a lot of people got in there, and there were multiple devices that folks were using. They definitely overcorrected.

And it'll be interesting to see how they react to these stories as I am assuming they'll keep piling up. Like this isn't going to be the, the, the first or the last. Yeah. Yeah. It is the first, but it won't be the last. Nintendo is also ending their Switch game voucher service, which I think is the thing that we already knew. But now we have dates. Yes, exactly. So we knew it was happening.

But now we know it'll conclude January 30th of next year, 2026. Which honestly, that's a bigger lead time than I thought we were going to get when they told us. that they were going to cancel that program. I thought it would be like the end of this year, but it's yeah, 2026, which I guess January, 2026 is basically the end of this year, but yeah, it's.

The thing is, I think they said there will be no new... So they confirmed Nintendo Switch 2 titles would not be compatible with the vouchers. And I think at the time, we talked about, well, this is... Clearly, they're going to reintroduce the...

switch vouchers switch to vouchers at a higher price because games have gotten more expensive which i still honestly they haven't confirmed what they're going to do if they're going to do anything I absolutely expect the game voucher service to come back on Switch 2.

but probably not till they have a much larger library. Like right now, it's literally like you'd buy a voucher to buy Mario Kart and Donkey Kong, and then there's nothing else to buy. So I think like, again, we didn't see the Switch vouchers until... It's like four or five years into the console life cycle. Like it's only been the last like.

three years or so i think that you've actually that the voucher program's even been a thing so i would expect it to go for a few years on switch two and then we'll see it come back after that yeah and again at a higher price when they have a larger library would be my guess

I think what they did was on the switch, they had them at a limited time for like a year, two or three years in, as you said, once they built up a library, then they went away and then they brought them back near the end. Like when the switch was clearly like.

you know running out of steam they brought them back and they were semi permanent um but yeah now they're going away again if you do purchase uh the vouchers before the january 30th date you do have like before a year to redeem them Um, but yeah, it's a, it's weird to, you know, talk about Nintendo doing something we don't like and then going to like, well, if you, if you have a couple of switch games that you had in mind, now's a good time to pick up some vouchers.

You know, on one hand, it's like Nintendo does shady things, but then here, go spend $100. Apparently, so Switch launched in March of 2017, and the voucher program started in 2019, May of 2019. So yeah, a couple years after, that's when they started doing vouchers.

i expect the same pattern to repeat i don't see why they would um like discontinue it completely especially since nintendo doesn't do sales right exactly like this is this is their way of doing sales but getting your money up front as well yeah nintendo and and also you know the idea of pushing more people to digital versions of their games they make more money that way so they are

able to do these vouchers to sell at a loss because they make more money anyways without involving brick and mortar. Yeah. So yeah, we do officially have a date for the end of the voucher program now, but do expect it, well, Ryan and I expect it to come back in the future. There's been no official word from Nintendo yet. Ghosts of Yota had a state of play that just happened. I know Matt, my husband, loved playing the first game. And Ryan, you're...

You're thinking that this looks worthy of your time. Yeah. I mean, I only put this story in here because I am willing, I am willing to admit when I'm wrong. And I know I was. getting some, some feedback that, uh, when I said there's, there hasn't been, there's no like feedback that there weren't like, big single player PlayStation games that we've, you know, come to expect. And folks would say death stranding too. And I would say, I don't know. That's so yeah, sure. Whatever. But then.

People would say, well, okay, if you don't want to consider Death Stranding 2, you have to consider Ghost of Yotai, the follow-up to Ghost of Tsushima from Sucker Punch. And I'm like, eh, I don't know. Then I watch this state of play, and I'm like, okay. I am willing to admit I was wrong. This looks really cool and certainly fits the vibe of what I would say is a first party, big budget, single player game that we've come to expect from PlayStation. So I will admit.

As long as it doesn't launch alongside Metro Prime 4, I will check it out at launch. I'm excited to play this one. It looks like it could be a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm sure we'll be picking it up in our house too. So I will give it a try as well. So... players of and i'm probably gonna butcher this so um stay with me anime fans i'm sorry you're welcome discord by the way yeah uh uma misume

That sounds pretty derby player. Does that sound right? I'm going to, I'm going to take the win early and then have discord rip me a new one. So pretty derby players are sending. Massive amounts of grass to a retired Japanese racehorse. So this is a gotcha game that has kind of been exploding over on Steam. It's mostly a mobile title, but it's also available on Steam. And there were like, was it 50,000 concurrent players?

In this gacha game. And I guess they've taken like. Real race horses. And turned them into anime girls. And this character. In particular. is very, very popular. And so because it's modeled after or inspired by an actual real horse... Players are now sending grass through a service to feed the retired racehorse, which I do kind of love. It makes my heart sing. So good job, gotcha game players. You have too much money.

Yeah, it brings a new definition to like whales in these games where they're like, yeah, they're even feeding the very like tangentially like, yeah. Related real horses. Yeah, because they like the pink haired anime girl in the video game. Adorable. I thought this was very, very interesting. And I love like as it.

that's a good news story it's very rare that like gacha games kind of like evolve out of just you know what are we summoning this time and like the fact that it escapes the game and goes into the real world like And actually benefits, like, not in this case. I suppose it benefits real people because, you know, they don't have to buy the grass now for these retired horses they're taking care of.

It is such a neat concept. Yeah, horses aren't cheap. No, definitely not. Definitely not. But yeah, it's interesting. They even, they said that they, it was crashing the website. where people are trying to gift the grass gifting website which is not a thing that i knew was a thing but now i know and that's a piece of information that i can't ever lose so thank you very much internet for making me have to know that um but yes you can gift grass and they have said that they they have received

So much support for this one horse that all gifts will be honored, but that they are, like, spreading it out over time because they can't give the horse all the grass that it's been gifted. Yeah, you got to spread the grass around. It's too much all at once.

yeah wild story no it's uh it's a really it's a really interesting story and i saw this it's cute and light-hearted and that makes me happy so i'm glad that we have some pieces of cute and light-hearted um news for once yeah it's supposed to be a video game podcast i don't understand

That's why we have so much heavy news all the time. All of our news should be about gamers donating grass to retired Japanese racehorses. Because honestly, that's what I want to talk about. That's what I want to cover. Oh, man. Oh, you heard it here first. Jocelyn's gonna play this game for next week, so...

And then send some grass to retire. I mean, I got to see. I got to see what all the hype is about, right? Maybe I'll choose another horse because now I'm starting to feel bad about the other horses because like this one is getting so much love and attention. What about all the other guys? So yeah, that's probably a thing that I'll probably do. Anyway, finally tonight, Nintendo has revealed its Link and Zelda casting for the Legend of Zelda film.

And I will say I was in camp Hunter Schaefer. I thought she would have been a fantastic Zelda. She already looks exactly like Zelda. I thought that that casting would have been chef's kiss. But, you know, I'm just well. I've never heard of the actress that they cast to play Zelda. I do know who the, the actor is that they cast to play Link. I absolutely hate him. So I really, I don't know. Like I just.

I feel like this is the kind of thing where it's like, because it's live action, I don't know if you can ever get live action casting like really on point. It's going to be so hard. But that little kid, man.

I just want to punch him in the face. What did he do to you? He's from that Netflix show, The Haunting. I think he was in... bly manor oh right yeah okay yeah he's that kid and he just is like he's obviously a very good actor because um spoiler alert for bly manor if you haven't actually uh played it But he plays a little kid who basically has like a split personality because half the time he is, again, spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert, half the time he is possessed by a...

like misogynistic like 25 year old man um and so he is very like he's just like he plays the character really well he's obviously a very good actor because i hate him yeah yes yeah like he's he's like joffrey he's like joffrey like you know like you just see that you just see that kid's face and you're just like i'm so sorry that you were cast in this role because i'm never gonna look at you another way and i'm like and now you're gonna play my link

And I'm like, I just I can't like wrap my head around that. And it's not because I think he's a bad actor. It's 100% the opposite. He is a very good actor. He makes my skin crawl. like I just his casting is Link I'm like I don't know if I'm going to be able to like separate those performances in my head like i'll have to see a trailer or something before i i 100 like yay or nay this but when i saw who they cast i was just like oh my god anyone but him

Which is totally unfair to the kid. No, it's, I mean, honestly, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you need good actors. to play these roles, 100%. But I don't think you need the best actors in the world to play Link and Zelda in what is likely to be an action-adventure film. As long as it's not like terrible acting, I think you're going to get the story and the writing. And I think needs to come first. And then, you know.

everything else kind of falls into place. Cause if you have a bat, if you have bad writing and a bad story, like I think the movie falls apart, especially in live action. Oh yeah. Yeah. You know, animation can kind of have, you know, we saw that with the Mario movie. Like even if the story and the writing is like,

not through the room yeah you can still the animation makes up for it exactly so when i saw this news it was interesting because i i don't know either of these these these actors and when i saw sort of the headshots they chose i'm like okay yeah it looks like you you cast give that kid blonde hair and you've got your link in zelda like in my mind like i saw it and i'm like i think if you

get a costume department on it and, you know, like makeup and effects, you're all set. And, and that's, I think at this stage, what is all we can do. And especially if you don't have like that. that connection um i don't have that connection like you do to this to this one actor but i did see a story later uh after this was announced it was from a canadian outlet i guess um

The guy who plays Link is also from a CBC show that's airing right now. I think it's called Son of a Critch. And there was a... there was this uh sort of connecting the dots of like basically saying like uh shigeru mayamoto must watch the cbc a lot and i'm like that's a stretch i mean i know you're a canadian outlet and you're probably like

I mean, I guess you got the clicks, but like it is, it was, uh, I don't think, well, maybe, maybe Miyamoto just has a CBC gem subscription. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know, but. Yeah, I think she looks more like I would think Zelda than I think he looks Link-ish. Maybe it's his... jaw like it's too square like he looks too i don't know not soft enough like links to me is a very like he needs an n64 chin is what you're saying

He's not meant to pull focus, I guess. I mean, I don't know. Just put a long hat on him. You'll be fine.

yeah i mean maybe i need to see all the costume design and stuff first and and see what kind of story they're gonna do like i just i need a trailer before i totally rip this apart but at least they put the headshots like they got headshots but them standing in front of a forest i think that that actually goes gives us a bit more you know it's not like it's not like when they announced the mario cast and it's like very clearly like you know hollywood headshots of of these actors and and

And I'm just glad that we're not having a similar reaction we had to the Mario movie where because it's an animated film, they literally cast, you know, the top name. yeah i mean at least it's not chris pratt playing link i mean it could be worse right they still have to cast ganon which you know is likely to be a voice actor Ryan, why would you put that out into the universe? Someone was saying, oh man, now they have to cast Jack Black as Ganon to have him do the voice. And I'm like...

No, I would hate that less. I would hate that less. All right. I don't think it'll be Chris. I really don't think Chris Pratt is going to be anywhere new. Maybe he'll play. I don't know, like. I really don't see him connected to this project. It really feels like they're trying to take this one very seriously. Everything they talk about with this project, they're aiming to do.

the ip justice just like mario fit well to an animated film like they are going the right route with it where they're saying this is going to be a serious live action adaptation of the legend of zelda this is what we want what we think we want We'll see when it releases, whether that lives up. We'll see. Fingers crossed.

If you want to continue the discussion and talk about all the people that you hope will be included or that you were hoping to be included that weren't chosen to play Link or Zelda, head on over to our Discord at tiny.cc slash TGI Discord. You can also visit us on the web at gamersinpodcast.com or follow us over on Blue Sky. You can find me, Jocelyn, at jossplays.com and Ryan is at ryanmurphy.ca. Also be sure to check out our TGI Community Starter Pack at tiny.cc.

Thanks for staying at the Gamers Inn. And remember, tune in next week. Bye, everybody. Bye, everyone.