00:00:00 Michael Clarke
Well, if you're talking about just any professional decide what you want, decide what kind of business you want to build. Decide who you wanna work with, decide what makes you feel fulfilled as a professional. I think it's we insist that everybody at our firm right out, for example, their ideal client profile. You know, if you're gonna go fishing for salmon, take gear that.
00:00:19 Sam
Right, baby.
00:00:20 Michael Clarke
Will help you.
00:00:20 Michael Clarke
Catch salmon, you know.
00:00:21 Sam
Look, I think this is a great point and it's we touched on it earlier, I think and and it ties into your first tip about do the work. I think if you're doing the work, do it.
00:00:29 Sam
Literally think about what it is that you want to achieve and why you're doing it and and put that into action as opposed to kind of accidentally doing it because that seems to be the the next logic.
00:00:43 Sam
This is the future Ready Advisor, a show about transforming your financial advisory practice. I'm your host, Sam Sivarajan, a wealth management consultant, behavioral scientist, and keynote speaker.
00:00:56 Sam
In this podcast, I dive deep into the real Challenges advisors base and bring you insightful conversations with top industry experts.
00:01:05 Sam
Together, we'll explore practical strategies grounded in behavioral science to help you better serve your clients, optimize your time, and build a future ready practice.
00:01:20 Sam
Hi everyone I'm your host Sam Sivarajan. Welcome to today's episode of The Future Ready Advisor. Today I'm here with Michael Clark, a veteran financial advisor and the author of the book a firm Worth Building. Michael, welcome to the show.
00:01:36 Michael Clarke
Yeah. Thanks. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:01:39 Sam
Delighted to have you and looking forward to our conversation, let me quickly introduce you to our audience. Joining us today is Michael Clark, the author of the book, a firm Worth Building, a guide for professional businesses to scale and thrive by focusing on running the business well rather than just their technical specialties.
00:01:59 Sam
Michael grew his advisory firm from modest beginnings to managing half a billion dollars, becoming a driving force behind the National Referral Network. His book offers 30 essential lessons for business owners, including building client trust quickly and leveraging professional networks for.
00:02:16 Sam
Michael and this team are forward thinkers who believe in building what should exist.
00:02:21 Sam
Not just what currently does.
00:02:25 Sam
Michael, let's start and dive in. You've been an advisor for over 30 years. Can you share with us some of the pivotal moments in your career that significantly shaped your professional power?
00:02:38 Michael Clarke
Sure. And by the way, thanks for that introduction. I I hope I'm.
00:02:41 Michael Clarke
Worthy of it.
00:02:44 Michael Clarke
Look, I I started my journey in this business back in the 90s.
00:02:50 Michael Clarke
And I I I think for the longest time it was just about survival. It was just about, you know, how do we how do I keep the lights on, keep food on the table, you know, that kind of thing.
00:03:01 Michael Clarke
You know what? I wasn't. I I started out in the Commission part of the business. I started out as an insurance agent.
00:03:10 Michael Clarke
UM, and I think I saw it just as a sales job. I saw it as a Commission sales job. I I didn't see it as I'm building a business, OK.
00:03:21 Michael Clarke
So in a nutshell, it whenever I'm asked. OK, well, what was the biggest key to your success?
00:03:29 Michael Clarke
I'm just my answer is well, I I survived. I didn't die.
00:03:33 Michael Clarke
Because I've made, I mean every single mistake you could make from, you know, not hiring staff to not investing back into my business, to not taking the educational components as seriously as I as I could have as early as I could have. Just just everything. I I didn't know that.
00:03:53 Michael Clarke
What I had was an actual business, OK?
00:03:58 Michael Clarke
So I had to learn that sort of the hard way and there there weren't a lot of people around to to help me.
00:04:04 Michael Clarke
Or to mentor me into building a business. So, I mean, I was just sort of flailing away at it.
00:04:10 Michael Clarke
And just trying to survive. And I as I did that for.
00:04:15 Michael Clarke
I don't know. Maybe.
00:04:16 Michael Clarke
The.
00:04:16 Michael Clarke
First, almost first half of my career. Almost.
00:04:20 Michael Clarke
And then I started to get serious about building actual infrastructure and and getting on the road of, you know, what fulfilling what my long term vision was and and which means I had to think about what it was. I had to decide what I wanted and.
00:04:40 Michael Clarke
And by the way, I'll I I've actually built my business twice. I started in 1992.
00:04:47 Michael Clarke
UM.
00:04:48 Michael Clarke
From scratch. And then I started again in 1997 from scratch because I had. I moved from Northern California to Los Angeles and and and and I moved to where I knew everybody where I'd grown up. And then I moved to an area where I knew nobody had to do it all over again. There's something to be said about surviving, by the way. It's a really good skill to have, but it's not enough.
00:05:08 Michael Clarke
What you want to do is build the business.
00:05:11 Sam
That's so profound, and we'll dive into that a little bit more. And it's an interesting point that you've made that you are based in California and even within California moving from Northern California to Los Angeles. I mean, as you say, you're starting over again, you're building. Can you talk a little bit about that? Like what what was actually involved in terms of, if you will?
00:05:34 Sam
To start over again, and because you've said to me that look, you've made it every mistake in the book.
00:05:40 Sam
And presumably when you started over again, this was an opportunity for you to kind of undo some of those early mistakes that you've made. Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:05:48 Michael Clarke
Yeah.
00:05:50 Michael Clarke
Sure. Would that I had the wisdom to have realized.
00:05:53 Michael Clarke
That.
00:05:55 Michael Clarke
I did not. It was jumping from one jungle to the next and just it was just surviving in another jungle basically.
00:06:06 Michael Clarke
But no, I think. But what I will say is so I came to Los Angeles for personal reasons, family reasons really. That's that's why I did it. One thing I did realize early on is that I will become like those I associate with. So I I I've always sought.
00:06:21 Michael Clarke
The right relationships, and I've always played this as a team sport from the beginning because I don't know any other way to do it.
00:06:29 Michael Clarke
So in associating with people who are more successful than me, I did learn a few things. OK, I learned how to interview really well, I think. OK, I learned that if I didn't know something or didn't feel like I was an expert in a particular area, I needed to work with somebody else who was.
00:06:49 Michael Clarke
OK, I also learned that I needed to build them up in the eyes of the people that I was talking to. I mean, our industry for whatever reason, throws us out as a bunch of lone.
00:07:00 Michael Clarke
Wolves.
00:07:01 Michael Clarke
And we're all solo acts for the most part.
00:07:06 Michael Clarke
But I learned that I I needed to borrow other people's expertise if I didn't have it myself. So there I I think at that juncture, there were a lot of things that started to.
00:07:14 Michael Clarke
Turn.
00:07:15 Michael Clarke
Even though I wasn't at the point where I was building the infrastructure that would see me having a real, honest to goodness business. But I feel like there were some some.
00:07:25 Michael Clarke
Very significant steps forward that I started.
00:07:28 Sam
In my experience, this is a process, right? You're not suddenly going to get all of the pieces in place. You have to start. It's a bit of a trial and error, but what I understand from what you say is that there's a process where you start thinking more deliberately, right and mindfully about what are you doing and why you're doing it. And there's a long term plan that may not necessarily reap dividends.
00:07:50 Sam
In the short run, but in the long run it's it's it's.
00:07:52 Michael Clarke
A good way of doing it? Yeah, I had to deliberately. I had to deliberately pay the rent I had deliberately pay childcare. Yes, there was a lot of deliberate.
00:07:53
And part.
00:08:03 Sam
No, but to your point, you're right that the surviving is an initial start for anybody in this industry. Yeah. And I I dare say that your experience is similar to mine and others that I've seen. I remember, like, early you take on any client, right. That wants to take it. I remember to me clear as light. There was a time where we had a very large.
00:08:23 Sam
Opportunity for a significant client. I went in with the team member to go meet with that client to do the the Dog and pony etcetera. And this client, you know, went.
00:08:32 Sam
To tell us that, like every year, he interviews 5 potential money managers and he pick.
00:08:39 Sam
Five and the following year he fires the the, the, the two worst performing providers.
00:08:46 Sam
And if you'd asked me a few years before, I would have, you know, sat there and tried my darndest to try to get that client. I said at that point. Sorry, I don't think we're the right fit, and I excuse myself when we walked out and I think this is illustrative. What we are talking about, about being deliberate and thinking through this.
00:09:05 Sam
But that comes with a little bit of experience, a little bit of confidence, a little bit of understanding. This is who I was, you know, serve and this is who.
00:09:14 Sam
I don't right?
00:09:15 Michael Clarke
You make you make a great point there because I I think there came a point when.
00:09:19 Michael Clarke
I had to focus on who I was going to work best with, and I think I my hand was forced. I was about 10 years into the.
00:09:23
OK.
00:09:27 Michael Clarke
Business.
00:09:28 Michael Clarke
And again, I was just kind of I was doing OK, but I was just kind of.
00:09:30 Michael Clarke
Surviving but I.
00:09:31 Michael Clarke
Wanted to align myself with these other professionals that were also in our business because they had access to a marketplace in Southern California that I felt I could help.
00:09:40 Michael Clarke
But the barrier to entry for them is I had to double my production in one year, OK, which is?
00:09:47 Michael Clarke
A.
00:09:47 Michael Clarke
Giant challenge I managed to do that because I started saying no to those people that I had formerly been chasing with the mindset that I need everybody, OK?
00:09:49
MHM.
00:10:01 Michael Clarke
And I started becoming a lot more focused on on what I wanted, who I was gonna work well with and started, you know, just.
00:10:07 Michael Clarke
Throwing a lot of throwing a lot of fish back as it were, and I I and I think that was the year I learned how powerful that was. Like somebody once said to me years.
00:10:10 Sam
MMMM.
00:10:17
MHM.
00:10:20
No.
00:10:20 Michael Clarke
You make more money saying no than you do saying yes and I, you know, to your point, I think that's what you were saying as well.
00:10:27 Sam
So on that note, you talk about in your book a firm worth building. You emphasize the importance of running the business well, not just focusing on professional specialities.
00:10:39 Sam
Talked a little bit about how this perspective is influenced the way you see the future of financial advisory practices. I mean how your experiences shape writing the book and how you think the book is shaping your own view of how the the industry is evolving?
00:10:56 Michael Clarke
Well, the industry is evolving. I personally think it's evolving away from being transactionally oriented.
00:11:02 Michael Clarke
And it's evolving towards building relationships.
00:11:05
Mm-hmm.
00:11:06 Michael Clarke
I think we focused on building relationships now for a long, long time, almost the entirety of my career.
00:11:14 Michael Clarke
So I I think that's one thing I I advisors should really be focusing on what their clients really are there for and why they're considering hiring them.
00:11:27 Michael Clarke
And most of that has to do with outcome and less to do with mechanics and.
00:11:32 Michael Clarke
All the things we feel like we're expert in, in other words, a trap that I fell into earlier. I use this as an example, so once I start to understand the science of investing, OK, I start to understand things like portfolio theory and its origins and all that kind of stuff.
00:11:49 Michael Clarke
I was really excited to share it because I thought it was cool and I thought it would make people trust me more because I could speak about this and then.
00:11:55 Michael Clarke
I discovered no one cared.
00:11:58 Michael Clarke
And because it wasn't speaking to them, it wasn't speaking to what it was they were talking to me for. So I think that.
00:12:09 Michael Clarke
I think a lot of things haven't changed. I mean, speak to you. We call it speaking to the listening I guess, but it really is, is all about why are your clients there. And then again I go, I go back to representing being part of a team, if you can, we need we need to all be working in teams these days that that's like I think there has been a seismic shift in.
00:12:28 Michael Clarke
Our business and our industry as it relates to how we interface with our clients, other advisors, their attorneys, their tax people, whomever they're working with, we all need to be sitting at the table together and not working in silos. We need to be working. We're working on behalf of clients of common clients. We should all know each other.
00:12:43
OK.
00:12:49 Michael Clarke
We should interact occasionally.
00:12:52 Michael Clarke
And the other thing I'll say is most advisors don't build infrastructure properly. They're, I mean, there are a lot of things advisors do, they just shouldn't be doing, you shouldn't be.
00:13:02 Michael Clarke
Processing paperwork, for example or now it's new account paperwork is all done virtually now.
00:13:07 Michael Clarke
But.
00:13:09 Michael Clarke
There's some administrative things our our advisors shouldn't be doing that. What we should be doing is studying the business, studying people, continuing to educate ourselves, staying up on the things we need to stay up.
00:13:23 Michael Clarke
On and being forward thinking with regard to how are we gonna provide tomorrow's solutions, not just the ones we.
00:13:29 Michael Clarke
Today.
00:13:31 Sam
I like that and it reminds me what you say of a of an old boss that I had who always used to tell us, work on the business, not in the business. And I think you have to do both, right. It's a bit of walking and chewing gum at the same time, but but I think you're 100% right that too many people get caught in the day-to-day the urgent.
00:13:39
Yeah.
00:13:51 Sam
Versus the important right, they're solving today's problems and neglecting what may be the opportunities, the the game changing opportunities that are around.
00:13:59 Sam
The corner, yeah.
00:14:00 Michael Clarke
I and just one of the things I learned early on and and was and I actually learned this in my former career before I got into this industry is.
00:14:09 Michael Clarke
If something's in my hand like a piece of paper or whatever it requires my attention, I'm going to do it right then and there, unless there is some huge reason why I can.
00:14:20 Michael Clarke
And I've operated that way for so long that now if you walk into my office, excuse me, my desk has nothing on.
00:14:27 Michael Clarke
It.
00:14:29 Michael Clarke
Because habitually I'm taking care of things in the moment, and I find that to be so much more productive, and by the.
00:14:39 Michael Clarke
Way.
00:14:40 Michael Clarke
Ohh my gosh, what a stress reliever.
00:14:43 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:14:43 Michael Clarke
Because I don't want to walk into my office and.
00:14:46 Michael Clarke
10 things that I have to do there are leftover from yesterday.
00:14:50
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:53 Sam
You mentioned something about building infrastructure and when we talked before Michael, you talked about this specific concept around infrastructure, about building digital family offices. Can you explain a little bit what a digital family office is and why you believe that that's both an opportunity and the future of wealth management?
00:15:14 Michael Clarke
Sure. Well, I you know, we're all familiar with with what a family office is. It's the ultra Uber wealthy solution. You know, you you go to one place and you get everything, everything from wealth management tax.
00:15:29 Michael Clarke
Estate planning to travel arrangements if you want to go on.
00:15:31 Sam
Insurance.
00:15:33 Michael Clarke
A trip to.
00:15:37 Michael Clarke
But it is a solution that up until very recently was available only to those that were really.
00:15:42 Michael Clarke
Really wealthy.
00:15:44 Michael Clarke
The idea of the digital family office.
00:15:46 Michael Clarke
To bring that solution to just to anybody, by bringing together groups of advisors the the CPA, the attorney in some cases may be a business attorney, it could be CFO, it could be a lot of people.
00:16:02 Michael Clarke
Whoever.
00:16:03 Michael Clarke
Should be sitting at the table with regard to moving.
00:16:07 Michael Clarke
And managing somebody's wealth.
00:16:10 Michael Clarke
That's the idea. And so typically where we begin.
00:16:13 Michael Clarke
And.
00:16:14 Michael Clarke
Is by introducing ourselves to our clients, other advisors and saying, hey, since we work for a common client, maybe we should know each other.
00:16:22 Michael Clarke
And and maybe.
00:16:24 Michael Clarke
We should consider being on each others team versus just knowing each other. There's a difference between.
00:16:31 Michael Clarke
You, knowing an attorney and what they do and the two of you being on one another's team for the sake of common clients. It's a different experience for the client.
00:16:42 Michael Clarke
So build the really building the digital Family Office is nothing more than just bringing everyone together, OK?
00:16:50 Michael Clarke
And and establishing those lines of communication and you know, running point for the clients and and talking about how how all of this is working, we should be asking our clients.
00:17:02 Michael Clarke
If they have needs beyond what we do, I'm always asking clients what's the condition of your state plan? Do you have one? Does it need to be updated? Is the attorney that did it still an attorney? Often they aren't.
00:17:19 Michael Clarke
It's important that we're asking all these questions because I I.
00:17:23 Michael Clarke
Get.
00:17:23 Michael Clarke
All kinds of responses that are about you know.
00:17:27 Michael Clarke
Yeah, we need to do that.
00:17:28 Sam
MM.
00:17:30 Michael Clarke
Can you recommend someone?
00:17:34 Michael Clarke
The more I do that, the more of those calls I get.
00:17:38 Michael Clarke
Because I know that my clients are seeing me as the point person in the world, kind of like the quarterback, that's who I want to be.
00:17:46 Sam
I want to dig into that a bit more, Michael. I think this this concept of digital family office, I I understand that this is aligned with your general view that you need to build strong referral networks. But when we discussed you had a really good point that too many advisers think about.
00:17:59 Michael Clarke
Yeah.
00:18:05 Sam
That referral network is almost like a Rolodex, right that.
00:18:08 Sam
You have the business card, you have the name and number, etcetera. But what you are thinking about is something a little bit more deeper and more nuanced. Can you explain that?
00:18:17
I.
00:18:18 Michael Clarke
Yeah, I am. And I'm glad you brought that up.
00:18:22 Michael Clarke
But the industry has always told advisers go get to know a couple of CPA's go get to know a couple of attorneys, and the way we've always approached this, hey, take them to lunch and tell them how great you are. They'll send you clients.
00:18:35 Michael Clarke
OK. And how well does that work? It don't so and we all kind of know that which is why everybody gets frustrated with it.
00:18:36 Sam
Doesn't work that way.
00:18:41
Yeah.
00:18:45 Michael Clarke
What I'm talking about is building an actual honest to goodness partnership where we're actually assisting each other in one another's success. It's different. I have if you're an attorney or CPA, I have to be valuable to your practice when she's every single time I talk to you, I have to bring you something you can use.
00:19:04 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:19:05 Michael Clarke
Now, often that's information we create a lot of content of various varieties from a lot of different people, but it also could be in the form of, hey, you know, my industry teaches me how to interview really. Well, maybe I could bring some of those benefits to you and maybe it could enhance the way.
00:19:12
Where?
00:19:24 Michael Clarke
You interact not only with your existing people, but with with new people. We a lot of the data shows that attorneys and CPA's don't market to their existing clients at all.
00:19:36 Michael Clarke
All. But if they did, they would raise their revenue per client by as much as I don't know, maybe the numbers 30 to 40%, something like that. It's not a small number.
00:19:47 Michael Clarke
So when I am building a partnership with another professional, this is what I'm saying to them. Look, I'm gonna. I'm gonna help you be better, OK? As a means of being valuable to you and which just means I'll share with you what it is we do. Well, and you can use it.
00:20:06 Michael Clarke
For your own purposes or not, whatever I'm telling you, you have to.
00:20:11 Michael Clarke
But I think there's a lot. There's a lot we can offer and I think so if I'm showing up as that person who has a stake in your success, it it's a different kind of interaction and it's a real partnership.
00:20:22 Sam
So what you're talking about is a much more proactive and deeper relationship than you know, perhaps the annual lunch where you talk about your golf handicap or anything else you're talking about.
00:20:34 Sam
Hey, by the way, I've seen this with my clientele. Is that something that you're seeing? Is that something I can help you with? Right. I mean, where as you say that you're you're creating a partnership where it isn't reactive. That one person isn't waiting for a referral from the other. It's actually. What can you do collectively to go out there?
00:20:42 Michael Clarke
Right.
00:20:54 Sam
And develop business together.
00:20:56 Michael Clarke
Yeah. And it's all about us telling essentially the same story. My story with my clients is I am going to try it to solve every problem I can, whether it means I refer you to somebody else to do it or whether we do it in house.
00:21:10 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:21:11 Michael Clarke
So what? We're talking to our partners about doing is having the same conversation saying look.
00:21:17 Michael Clarke
I'm in a state planning journey, but we can also, by extension address other needs because we have other relationships.
00:21:24 Michael Clarke
I'm going to ask you about what's going on in other areas and you just tell me how you're feeling about what's going on. It doesn't and.
00:21:30 Michael Clarke
It.
00:21:30 Michael Clarke
Doesn't matter what the answer is, you're going to be elevated in the eyes of your client simply for by asking the question.
00:21:38 Sam
I love that description and it makes me think of an analogy that I heard somebody use with me, which is that it it's akin to a family doctor or a General practitioner. Yeah, they're not the expert. OK, but it a good family doctor is going to refer their patient to the cardiologist, to the rheumatologist. Or what?
00:21:58 Sam
Have you but their jobs not done at that?
00:21:58
Right.
00:22:01 Sam
Once they, the patient goes to the cardiologist and gets a work up and there's a report coming back, the family Doctor is going to use that report and integrate it into their daily care to say because of what you've learned from the cardiologist, this is how we need to change the rest of your routine, right? That's what you're talking about and playing a role.
00:22:18 Michael Clarke
That, that, that, that.
00:22:21 Sam
With your clients.
00:22:22 Michael Clarke
Yeah, that's a that's a great way to describe it. I mean, I've, I've joked about it and said if I went into my dentist office and there was a second head growing out of my shoulder, I wouldn't expect they would know what to do with it, but.
00:22:32 Michael Clarke
I'd want him.
00:22:33 Michael Clarke
To say something, yes, yes.
00:22:38 Michael Clarke
Your example, which much more eloquent than mine by the.
00:22:42 Michael Clarke
Way.
00:22:43 Sam
Thank you. Look, I think on those lines, you're talking about being involved and creating, I think whether it's content or value at each step of the process. Yeah, when we talked, you had told me about your intake process.
00:22:58 Sam
With new clients and how you broken it down into four different meetings because you can't possibly cover everything in one meeting, right? With different educational material that you use in each of those meetings to stay connected and build trust.
00:23:13 Sam
Can you walk us through that four different meetings and what you're involved and what type of content you use and how that's?
00:23:19 Sam
Worked for you.
00:23:21 Michael Clarke
Sure. Well, let me answer that first by by talking about what we used to do, you know which was the standard sort of advisor intake, which took a long time. I was taught to send somebody a question there before I even met with him. The questionnaire was.
00:23:33 Michael Clarke
I mean, nobody filled it out. They looked at and went.
00:23:35 Michael Clarke
I'm.
00:23:35 Michael Clarke
Not going to do this, so you'd end up meeting with somebody and the intakes would take, you know.
00:23:41 Michael Clarke
Maybe two hours and and and and that was fine. I mean, you're you're you're trying to build a relationship, but.
00:23:42 Sam
M.
00:23:47 Michael Clarke
I think what we discovered is how much of it was retained not.
00:23:51 Sam
100%.
00:23:51 Michael Clarke
A whole lot.
00:23:52 Michael Clarke
Because it was just this big thing.
00:23:57 Michael Clarke
So what we've done over the years and I think COVID accelerated this because so many of us transitioned to a into a virtual way of doing business.
00:24:06 Michael Clarke
We took that intake process and we broke it up into four steps. The first step is risk tolerance. I'm gonna take somebody's temperature on what their emotional limits are regarding atypical portfolios behavior, and we're gonna go, OK, what about this one? About about that one. And I'm going to talk to them about.
00:24:26 Michael Clarke
Are you OK with swings that look like whatever they look like? And I and I'm I'm I want to find out where their limits are because and we learned this during COVID. You know, we all know that when COVID hit back in 2020, the market dropped dropped. I think it was 33%.
00:24:41 Michael Clarke
In three weeks? Yeah.
00:24:43 Michael Clarke
Ohh Elizabeth, that's a big one, right? I mean, everybody's kind of doesn't know what to do and but if I I can tell you I had two clients who wanted me to make changes in their portfolio because of that event.
00:24:49 Sam
Freaking out.
00:25:03 Michael Clarke
Just two. OK, everybody else. I knew what their emotional limits are, and I knew what their tolerance for risk was. And nobody else called.
00:25:14 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:25:15 Michael Clarke
I mean, a few people here and there, but during.
00:25:15
Hmm.
00:25:17 Michael Clarke
That.
00:25:17 Michael Clarke
Period. You'd be shocked at the number of people that didn't call. I mean. And it's because, you know, we're taking the time to know that. OK, so I have to know what your limits are because I don't want. And by the way, the two people that said make changes.
00:25:35
So.
00:25:35 Michael Clarke
Those changes worked against.
00:25:36 Michael Clarke
Them OK.
00:25:38 Michael Clarke
Because they made emotional fear based decisions, so I have to know what your emotional limits are so you don't make an emotional fear based decision which 90% of the time is.
00:25:47 Michael Clarke
Gonna go against you, OK?
00:25:48 Sam
Right.
00:25:49 Michael Clarke
The second meeting, once I know that, then we're going to take a look at how does your current investment mixture stack up against your risk tolerance? Are they aligned or are they not OK?
00:25:59 Michael Clarke
And if they're not, we're going to look at, well, how could we possibly improve this kind of spitball a little bit and go? OK, well.
00:26:06 Michael Clarke
What if we did this? What if we did this? What if we did this? OK, so they're gonna get a bit of a bit of a flavor of, you know, what direction we might go in if they came on board the third meeting, though. And I think this is one of probably most important is we're gonna do a very skeletal or basic financial plan for them. We call it an express plan. OK.
00:26:27 Michael Clarke
But it's going to give them an idea of where the road for them leads. So 99% of the people we meet with just want to get to a point in time where they have economic freedom. OK, but economic freedom isn't just about getting there. It's about staying there. OK, so we're going to put together a basic financial plan which will.
00:26:46 Michael Clarke
Illustrate for them if they can get there and stay there, and if there are adjustments they need to make before the fact, we can suggest those adjustments as well. But it's often the first time these people have seen this. It's like we get comments all the time. Nobody's ever done this.
00:26:59
MHM.
00:27:03
OK.
00:27:04 Michael Clarke
The fourth meeting is OK now that you've seen all of this, this is how we would work with you if you came on board majority the people.
00:27:14 Michael Clarke
Somewhere during Step 3, they're like I'm.
00:27:17 Michael Clarke
In.
00:27:18 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:27:21 Michael Clarke
So I think there is I I think we've found it to be a process. It's really, really effective. The other part of it is it takes me as an advisor, it takes me out of my own head.
00:27:30 Sam
M.
00:27:31 Michael Clarke
I've start listening to people. I have to start assimilating their answers. I have to start.
00:27:36 Michael Clarke
Really, at a much deeper level, understanding them as opposed to getting my.
00:27:41 Michael Clarke
Right. OK.
00:27:43 Michael Clarke
Which I think a lot of advisors, especially newer advisors, it's an easy trap to fall into. I want to make sure I do a good presentation. Who cares?
00:27:53 Michael Clarke
Talk to me.
00:27:55 Sam
Look, that's a great point. The the key there is there is an investment of time that you're putting in, but because it's structured because you're listening.
00:28:05 Sam
You are offsetting the the time that it's take by improving your success rate. From what I gather right I mean your success has gone up dramatically when you have this structured 4 step process as opposed to saying. Here's the presentation. I'm gonna go through it and go to follow up and ask you if you have any questions.
00:28:25
Right.
00:28:26 Sam
Follow up three weeks after that to ask you if you have any.
00:28:28 Sam
Actions. This process kind of indicates to the prospective client that you're methodical that your discipline, that you have a process, and there you're there to build a long term relationship instead of getting a quick win.
00:28:41 Michael Clarke
Right. And and what I would also say is and I forgot to mention this. So we do a lot of educational stuff, OK, we do at least one we do a town hall webinar every month where.
00:28:50 Michael Clarke
Bringing on a different professional to talk about what they do and we're taking on and tackling the issues of the moment.
00:28:57 Michael Clarke
And all that.
00:28:57 Michael Clarke
Stuff.
00:28:58 Michael Clarke
So we have this library of of of educational content and and between these meetings we will almost insist that the people we're talking to watch at least one of those webinars.
00:29:11 Michael Clarke
Because it fills in the gaps, they'll watch it and go. Ohh, that's what he was talking about.
00:29:18 Michael Clarke
And they'll learn it is such an effective tool when it comes to keeping, you know, keeping the interest on the fire burning. But it also gives them an idea. It gives them a way in a super non threatening way where they can take a look at us and go, Oh yeah, this is this is this is what these guys are OK.
00:29:36 Michael Clarke
But a lot of this even starts before that, because there, you know, the first time you meet with somebody, you're getting.
00:29:42 Michael Clarke
Acquainted.
00:29:43 Michael Clarke
That's when you really want to determine.
00:29:46 Michael Clarke
Whether it's a fit.
00:29:48 Michael Clarke
And and and and we do say in those meetings. Look, I am not here to sell you anything. I'm here so that you and I can decide if it's appropriate for us to work together.
00:29:58 Sam
The fit is right.
00:30:00 Sam
Right.
00:30:03 Michael Clarke
And that's not what the industry teaches.
00:30:03
Now.
00:30:06 Sam
And again, this is what we've talked about even from the outset, that this only comes with experience in developing your own business plan etcetera to say this is what works and this is the type of clients that you want.
00:30:17 Sam
Right. It's the industry doesn't teach you because like everything else it let's use driving for an example that's meant to teach the the average Joe driver how to drive. There are lots of people with drivers license that perhaps shouldn't have one right, but at least if I look at my local traffic. But I think that the idea.
00:30:33 Michael Clarke
Yes.
00:30:35 Michael Clarke
And most of them are driving Priuses in Los Angeles. But OK.
00:30:40 Sam
But the idea is that you have to take what you learn from general and then tailor it specifically to your needs. Your practice, your strengths, your niche, etcetera.
00:30:52 Michael Clarke
Apologies to all the Prius owners, by the way.
00:30:54 Michael Clarke
Anyway.
00:30:56 Sam
I want to go back to the the digital Family Office and the network partners. I think when we were talking, you had a, a, a, a really interesting concept of this client Bill of Rights that you used to ensure that interests and approaches are aligned. Talk to me a little bit about that.
00:31:14 Michael Clarke
Well, that actually came about because over the years as we have referred out to many professionals.
00:31:22 Michael Clarke
Look, there's no other way to say this. There are.
00:31:24 Michael Clarke
A lot of knuckleheads out there, OK?
00:31:26 Michael Clarke
UM.
00:31:28 Michael Clarke
And what I mean by that is those that do not perpetuate the experience you're looking to perpetuate if you make a referral to somebody.
00:31:36 Michael Clarke
What you primarily care about is will they continue the experience that my client is used to?
00:31:44 Michael Clarke
And unfortunately for us, at least, a lot of times that didn't happen.
00:31:49 Michael Clarke
So we came up with the idea of the network as a way of holding everybody accountable to a certain standard.
00:31:56 Michael Clarke
And we developed the client Bill of Rights and I guess it's a lot like that patient Bill of Rights you see in hospitals. It's nothing crazy. It's, you know, return a phone call in 48 hours, answer an e-mail, be transparent in your fee structure.
00:32:15 Michael Clarke
Answer questions without slipping into too much industry speak, you know.
00:32:20 Michael Clarke
It's it's the stuff.
00:32:22 Michael Clarke
You really shouldn't even have to say, OK.
00:32:25 Sam
I love this idea and the reason I love it is I think one of the biggest fears that advisors have is making a referral. If it works well, you might get a slight pat on your back, but if it doesn't work well, it could cost you. Your relationship with your client.
00:32:38 Michael Clarke
Right.
00:32:42 Sam
Even though you had nothing to do with their bad experience, and so I think to encourage referral to encourage this team sport that you're talking about.
00:32:52 Sam
Which to me makes sense that that is the right approach and the approach to the future, because one person can't be an expert on everything. No, this idea of having a client Bill of Rights and having that conversation with the network partners to say this is the minimum standards that you know your client can expect from me if you refer them to me.
00:33:13 Sam
Can we assume that that's going to be the same in reverse, right?
00:33:17 Michael Clarke
Well, yeah, not yeah, we we're going to assume that the experience is going to be what we want it to be, but I I even go a step further. If I make a referral, especially for the first time, I will sit in on the meeting.
00:33:28 Michael Clarke
So if I make a.
00:33:29 Michael Clarke
Referral.
00:33:30 Michael Clarke
To let's say.
00:33:31 Sam
Interesting.
00:33:31 Michael Clarke
A trust attorney. And they're gonna meet for the first time. I'm at that meeting.
00:33:36 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:33:38 Michael Clarke
I wanna look at what people are getting y'all.
00:33:42 Michael Clarke
I mean, I gotta know that. And I if I'm going to be someone who's building partnerships, I have to know what they look like.
00:33:45
Yep.
00:33:53 Michael Clarke
Because this is happening on my wife.
00:33:53 Sam
And your clients or your clients OK with that, that they're sitting in.
00:33:56 Michael Clarke
Oh yeah.
00:33:58 Michael Clarke
Yeah, no, I say look, if it's OK with you, can I sit on the meeting?
00:34:00 Michael Clarke
Like. Yeah, please. OK.
00:34:02 Sam
Oh great.
00:34:03 Michael Clarke
So I don't think I've ever had somebody say no, they didn't want that. Now. Now, once the process is kind of underway, I'll back off a little bit because I don't. I don't.
00:34:10 Michael Clarke
Want to look over?
00:34:11 Michael Clarke
Anybody's shoulder either, OK.
00:34:12 Sam
Right.
00:34:14 Michael Clarke
But the other thing that I do insist on is that communicate with you. If you're working with one of my clients in an area that I don't work and communicate with me about.
00:34:24 Michael Clarke
What's going on? OK.
00:34:27 Michael Clarke
For example, if it's a trust attorney and you meet with the client, and they maybe even they pay you a retainer, which often happens.
00:34:37 Michael Clarke
And then now all of a sudden you can't get ahold of that client. You need information and they've gone radio silent, for crying out loud. Tell me about that, because I can jumpstart it, cause I'll probably talk to him before you.
00:34:46 Sam
M.
00:34:50 Michael Clarke
Will right, right.
00:34:52 Michael Clarke
So that's just another aspect of team play that's beneficial for everyone.
00:34:58 Sam
Makes sense?
00:35:00 Sam
Michael, what advice would you give to other advisors from the lessons that you've learned, advice for innovation and building practices that are ready for the future?
00:35:10 Michael Clarke
Well, #1, take a look around you and see who you want to associate with. If you if you're trying to grow associate with people who are bigger than you are and associate.
00:35:19 Michael Clarke
With people who?
00:35:20 Michael Clarke
Align with your values I think.
00:35:24 Michael Clarke
Associate with people who align with your thinking and learn to play this as a team sport. It's not.
00:35:29 Michael Clarke
About.
00:35:29 Michael Clarke
You.
00:35:31 Michael Clarke
It's about you and everybody else that's working on behalf of the people, you.
00:35:35 Michael Clarke
Want.
00:35:35 Michael Clarke
To work with and speak well of these people, we preach, and it's this is in the book. We call it the triangle of edification. It's nothing more than building up somebody else, and it's not, by the way, it's not just another professional that you might.
00:35:47
MHM.
00:35:51 Michael Clarke
Work with.
00:35:52 Michael Clarke
It's your staff, it's your firm, it's your and the more. And I don't mean in a disingenuous way. I mean find something genuine to edify and to amplify. OK. We amplify our support staff all the time.
00:36:06 Michael Clarke
Because they make us look good. You know, the majority of interactions that my clients have with my practice, they don't have with me.
00:36:17 Michael Clarke
They have with my support team.
00:36:19 Michael Clarke
And and that's by design. But the more I'm edifying, the people around me, I will get farther, faster doing that. And the last thing is always stay aste.
00:36:30 Michael Clarke
Didn't.
00:36:31 Michael Clarke
Stay a student of the business, stay a student of the market. As a student of what you and more than anything else, be it be a student of human behavior.
00:36:40 Sam
Ohh, I couldn't agree with you. More human behavior is probably the one constant for the most part, but the markets changing technologies, changing regulations are changing. It's the the the clients needs and their expectations are changing, but they're still based, I would say on on the same fundamental principles of safety, security.
00:37:01 Sam
Purpose.
00:37:02 Sam
Meaning, engagement. All of those things that has existed since time immemorial, they're just manifesting themselves in different ways in different periods.
00:37:14 Sam
Michael, this has been a great conversation. We're coming to the end of our podcast. So I have a few final rapid fire questions for you that I asked all of my guests.
00:37:22
OK.
00:37:24 Michael Clarke
Rapid fire.
00:37:25 Sam
So when you're ready #1 profession professionally, what is the most important lesson you've learned over the years?
00:37:26 Michael Clarke
I'm ready. I'm ready.
00:37:33 Michael Clarke
Ohh wow.
00:37:38 Michael Clarke
Go to work.
00:37:42 Michael Clarke
I mean it. Well, what I mean is.
00:37:42 Sam
What do you?
00:37:42 Sam
By that.
00:37:50 Michael Clarke
Every day I have to make a decision about where my energies are most deserving. OK, like what is the most productive thing I can do today?
00:37:59 Michael Clarke
And then I have to execute whatever that is on a daily basis. So it really happens in short time increments. If I've learned anything.
00:38:07 Michael Clarke
Focus on what I can control right now and focus on what will make a difference.
00:38:15 Sam
Cool.
00:38:16 Sam
And secondly, what is 1 practical tip you would offer listeners keen on applying your insights from your book from your practice?
00:38:26 Michael Clarke
Well, if you're talking about just any professional decide what you want, decide what kind of business you want to build. Decide who.
00:38:33 Michael Clarke
You want to work with.
00:38:35 Michael Clarke
Decide what makes you feel fulfilled. As a professional, we insist that.
00:38:42 Michael Clarke
Everybody at our firm right out, for example, their ideal client profile. If you're going to go fishing for salmon, take gear that will help you catch salmon, you know.
00:38:49 Sam
The right gate.
00:38:53 Sam
Look, this is a great point and it's we touched on it earlier, I think and and it ties into your first tip about do the work. I think if you're doing the work do it deliberately. Yes, about what it is that you want to achieve and why you're doing it and and put that into action as opposed to kind of accidentally doing it because that seems to be the the next logical.
00:39:15 Sam
Well.
00:39:15 Michael Clarke
I using that did you? Did you watch the the men's basketball gold medal game this past weekend? Did she see Steph Curry at the end? Yeah. So Steph Curry, just.
00:39:22 Sam
Yeah.
00:39:26 Michael Clarke
Went insane for like 2 minutes. OK.
00:39:30 Michael Clarke
That's not an accident. Steph Curry shoots. I think somebody said 300 free throws a day.
00:39:36 Michael Clarke
OK.
00:39:38 Michael Clarke
That should teach us all something about the value of deliberate work, OK?
00:39:44 Michael Clarke
Which is what you're talking about. So yes, work deliberately.
00:39:50 Michael Clarke
Those that do that are the ones that succeed. It's it's not. It's not a radical concept.
00:39:58 Sam
No, it's a great. It's a great example, Michael. This has been a really fun conversation. If listeners want to learn more about you, your book, where do they go?
00:40:08 Michael Clarke
Yes, OK. So the book is a firmware building. It's backwards here on the screen. It does say a firmware building. It's available on Amazon. Everything I've talked about here today is in the book and then some. OK. The book is a sum total of our experience. It actually is a lot of it is derived out of mistakes.
00:40:29 Michael Clarke
We've made and also things that we're now doing that have been very successful for us. So that's where you can.
00:40:36 Michael Clarke
Get the book.
00:40:36
For.
00:40:37 Michael Clarke
If you're a professional CPA and attorney, whatever I think you're going to find it really value.
00:40:44 Sam
Great, Michael, thanks for joining us today on the future Ready Advisor Podcast.
00:40:50 Michael Clarke
Mike, thanks so much for having me, Sam.
00:41:06 Sam
In this episode, I spoke with Michael Clarke, financial adviser and the author of the book a firm Worth Building. Here are my three key takeaways from this discussion #1 build for long term success, not just survival. Michael emphasizes that success isn't just about making it through tough times.
00:41:28 Sam
Advisors should shift focus from simply staying afloat to deliberately building infrastructure, defining a vision, and investing in the systems and people that enable growth.
00:41:40 Sam
#2 the power of saying no, learning to say no to clients who don't align with your values or business model can be a game changer. By focusing on ideal clients, Michael doubled his production and found more satisfaction in his work.
00:41:58 Sam
#3 leverage teamwork and partnerships.
00:42:03 Sam
The future of wealth management lies in collaboration. Michael's concept of the Digital Family Office integrates advisors, attorneys, and other professionals into a cohesive team, ensuring a seamless client experience. It's not about working solo, it's about building a network of trusted partners.
00:42:22 Sam
These insights remind us that intentionality and collaboration are the keys to a thriving practice. Thank you for tuning into today's episode of The Future Ready Advisor.
00:42:37 Sam
You've been listening to the future Ready advisor. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or a rating on Spotify, or share your feedback wherever you listen. Be sure to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. For more insights on how to keep your practice.
00:42:55 Sam
Future ready visit www.samsivarajan.com.
00:43:00 Sam
You can find the link on the show notes. There you'll find free tools and resources along with exclusive bonus content from these podcasts. Thanks for tuning in and I look forward to sharing more strategies with you in the next episode.