Episode 324: 9800X3D Reviews Are In, Continued Intel Problems & More

In this episode of The Full Nerd, the best CPU ever, Intel's got more problems and your questions answered. And welcome to Episode 324, the Full Nerd podcast I just grabbed the box for a new CPU that came out, it was sitting behind me. I am your fill-in host Adam Patrick Murray, but I'm not alone for this episode. On the line, I have the glorious Eleni. Hello. And I see a little bit of a full nerd shirt peaking out. A ham-ring of a mature guy. I like it.

Speaking of really good shirts, Brad Charkis is also on the line with the wars in the stars shirt. Yes sir, help me internet. I'm hopelessly addicted to Call of Duty. Yeah, but on console. It's all the same now, man. I've been splitting it up. I haven't split it up. It is all the same. All right. Speaking of splitting it up, we got Will. I don't know what you're splitting up. I'm the brain cells. We're sharing the brain cells. We're split-muppets. We got half a brain.

Yeah. I think it's good to see Adam on the hairpeer. That was last week, but yes, thank you for noticing. Still looking good. I like to give it six right months between. You know who always looks fresh. It's will dislike controlling the verticals and horizontals. He's the fresh maker. Hello, everyone. Happy Tuesday. I'm still leaving the stash in the beard. It's filling in nicely. Yeah, thanks. I got to switch my window. Yeah, you got to tune in for the fresh growth.

Last week we had a full beard episode. The full beard cast. That's why I was not it because I didn't have a beard to qualify. I keep saying I'm going to get one. First question from Rue or two. Did Brad get a PS5 Pro? No, I haven't had a PlayStation since the PlayStation 2. Yeah, there you go. Before we enter the show, we got a lot of interesting stuff to talk about. A lot of good stuff, but I want to kick off. I've tried to think of a way to make a segment out of this.

It's not like a segment segment, but it's kind of like the intro. Sometimes we just fit in little things here. What if I call it the accessory box? I like the... You're making a bucket. I love accessory boxes. They're not the main show when you get a new case, but I always like looking... Oh, I'm like, what's in the accessory box? Here's some branded zip ties. Maybe a little bit of Velcro. I put some posted notes with a couple topics in here. Oh, so do you? Yeah, let's...

It's a pop... It's a popery. A little popery. Let's grab one. Well, two fell out. Do you want me to just pick one? I might tattoo shop where you can... they'll give you a tattoo for 50 bucks if you pick whatever you put into the bubble gum machine. Take whatever they get out. Wow, okay. And that's how I got the dolphin on the back of my lower back. Like the Miami Dolphin? Yeah. What do we got? Says Oro Coke. Okay. Well, Oro Coke.

Oh, Oreo Coke. Sorry, I don't have good handwriting, but you brought in last week. Yeah, you were gracious. I just went off to bring in Oreo flavor. No, Coke, a cold of flavored Oreos. Yeah. We did some science, though. If you didn't know this, Will has a phrase, always be testing. It's the thing I invented. Yeah, I'm just going to save it. We did it now. We didn't trademark it at the last. He's here on the full nerd. We'll always be testing.

No, I feel like they're going to get sued, but that's fine. Go ahead. Okay. Anyway, we did some science because we agreed when we first ate these that we did not like them. Well, but hold on, I just like usually as the explosion of products, consumer products has, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Oreo typically does pretty well. Like they, like when they put pop rocks in the go. I was like, that's really good. Cocacola. Yeah, like they, they grind up unicorns, put them in the coke.

That's delicious. I don't ever, never in my life have I had an Oreo thought, man, this would be better if I put a bunch of Coca-Cola in my mouth. Right? Which actually, yeah, the Oreo flavored Coke, I think is actually much better. Yeah, but like you don't want the fizz and the cookie bits grind into your molars. No, no, that's good. It's not what you're looking for. Brad, Elena, have you had the Oreo, look Coca-Cola flavored Oreos?

No, I feel like it's one of those things where I can go either way. When the first time you try it, you're like, I'll know about this. And then you keep eating it. And either you end up loving it or you end up really hating it. Like Ribba Fetch. Well, so one of the claims of fame is that the inside part, the gooey center cream. The cream, yeah, the cream of the crop. It has like kind of pop rock kind of things in it. So like it's like a fizz, like a Coca-Cola. It smells bad.

Yeah, kind of smell it. So that's interesting. But then also, so the black side of the Oreo is just normal. And then the red side of the cookie is different than you. We did some testing. We did a lot of testing. Yeah, we did it. This is mildly you did a lot of testing. I did, I was like, I'm not going to eat anymore. Listen, they're bad. We always say this here on the full nerd, always be testing. That's what it is what we always say.

It's the thing we've been saying since the beginning, 300 episodes ago. You started, you kicked off the first episode, we were just like, hey, I just want to say the motto of the show. Always be tested. Go back, watch the tape. Yeah, it's on the channel. And after, after a lot of, a lot of testing, I realized it's actually the red part of the cookie that I do not like. Yeah, it tastes bad. Yeah, so if you eat it with two black cookies, then it's actually not too bad in my mind.

It's still not great. I would just ask a quick question. Yes. Did you try dip in it inside of Coca-Cola instead of milk? No. I didn't, well, number one, I didn't try dip in it in milk because that's not really my jam. But I would love to try dip in it Coca-Cola. I would immediately, I never heard you ever get a Coca-Cola in the right back. Yeah, there you go. Anyway, so yeah, that was a, it's one little topic. No, well, it says Coke on the red side. Yeah, I know.

And if it didn't have that, you would never know. Well, what was bad about the red part of the cookie? It just has this weird cinnamon kind of spice to it. I don't know, like, yeah. It smells like fake cinnamon and licorice. Yeah, it's weird. It's kind of together. And almost too strong. I wish it was a little more subtle. It's very strong. You know, when you get, like, I had some bruised to that mix and this smells like one of my Christmas parties with family. Yeah, yeah.

But like, it tastes like, you know, those Coke bottle things, those like the waxy candies that you suck the goo out of. Oh, yeah, yeah. It tastes like that stuff does. Kind of. But worse. Yeah, but worse. Yeah. It's not good. All right, we got another topic in here. Oh, okay. So I get into it. This is just in. I just saw this on the internet. The jeep, the Nvidia app is out of beta. Whoa. Cheap force experience is no longer. I just installed it the other day. And it was beta then on Saturday.

Yeah. And now it's not out in beta anymore. Have we wrote this up on PC world yet? Uh, yeah, as of this morning. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, that means the jeep force experience is no more. They're still keeping it around for now. They're not forcing people over with the drivers. It's available as an optional install with the drivers. But the expectation is probably early next year. It's going to be along with the Alan Parsons experience. Now the jeep force experience is retired.

I've been using the Nvidia app. And I like it. I like it. Yeah, I mean to like it. There's a lot. I mean, not that the jeep force experience app was bad per se. But even just the simple fact of like you don't have to log in. And sometimes that there would be an update and they would log you out. And just not having to log in is honestly my favorite part. Yeah. It's just like you never think a little thing like that would be such a huge, you know, life changer. That's a huge quality of life.

For me, the fact that they're still not fully complete, but they're working in a bunch of settings from the Nvidia control panel too, because the GFE slash and video control panel has been terrible experience for five years. Yeah. Well, it's the opposite of each other. Right. That's the thing. Yeah. I honestly like the idea that they force you to log in to jeep force experience to use. GeForce experience implies they can't track you effectively without logging in, which they absolutely can.

Because they have a fingerprint of your computer. They know who you are. They just don't know who you are. They know that you're the same person over and over. There's no, like there's no upside to them requiring that log in. I'm glad that they ditched their requirement. I hope they don't change that as it goes out of beta. Yeah. So congratulations. If you don't have the Nvidia app, you can get it now at local retailers. I don't know. I think it's a story of the internet. Internet. Internet.

We got another one in here. Oh, we got two more in here. Oh, we're going to do all of them. Oh, why not? Oh, okay. It's just like a pick one. We don't have to. Oh, no, it's fine. Well, these are topical stuff like a brand new steam deck. What? Actually, no, it's just a limited edition. Wait, a new limited edition variant. It's a Cosmetic Refresh. It's a Cosmetic Refresh. Have you ever seen it? Yeah, no, I saw it. So we can't worry about the alloy. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Wow. Dang. Spicy.

What? It is white. And it is very white and gray. And then the power of the brand. It looks good. It does look pretty good. It does look pretty good. Yeah, but how long is it going to look good, though? You'll talk. Also, it does, like a lot of white stuff, it does accentuate the large bezels. That's true. Yeah. So I actually, when I first saw it, somebody tagged me in Discord. I'm sorry, I can't remember.

I might have been in front of the show, cause MC, but they were like, no. And I was like, oh, but I really want it. And then the more I looked at it, I was like, well, number one, I don't use my steam deck much anymore anyway. Yeah. Number two, I was like, hmm. Actually, I do like the look of it, but I have the other limited edition that the C-3 one and I kind of prefer the C-3 one. So I like the gray buttons a lot.

And I like the contrast on the red power button on the OLED with the white that looks really nice. But like, this is, this is, like, they're just trying to sauce it up a little bit more to entice the people who haven't jumped yet, right? Or get nerds like me who would buy multiple versions. Want to collect, collect them all like Pokemon? Yeah. You should get it to Pokemon cards as much cheaper than collecting steam decks. Should I? Yeah. I'm not wrong. What have you been talking about?

I've heard Pogs are coming back. Look, everybody loves Pogs. Yeah, I saw an ad on my Instagram or something and it was just like, oh Pogs, and I was like, what the? The nostalgia thing is getting too out of hand. Let the children have their things and we should let things stay in our childhood. Yeah. Look, I don't care what you say, Lane, I'm going to go out and find some bay blades off the overpass to see what happens, okay? It's a big thing, remember those? I love bay blades now.

You got the last thing in the accessory box. Beyond saying something. It's long about me. See if you can read it. My handwriting's bad. This one says. Oh, yeah. I forgot about this. And Burnick. Yeah. I picked up. I picked up. Is that a real, is that a real word? Yeah. And Burnick's a real word. Okay. A-N-B-E-R-I-N-I-C. And Burnick. I picked up the RG40X-X-V. What's the, what's the, is that like a PGA thing or is that a? No, no, this is a Linux-based software emulation.

There was, there was a big sale probably because they're literally coming out with new ones every week. Yeah. So, but as of right now, this is still one of the best ones for vertical orientation of retro game style handhelds. Okay. So far, I like it. I haven't done the ton with it, but I'll say the place that they put the bumpers is really good. I played some SNES games. Not that I would encourage that kind of activity. It was your own ROM. I saw you. Yeah, I dumped the ROM.

Yeah. But yeah, like you could actually hit the bumpers. I know a lot of those vertical ones hitting the bumpers is hard. So. And the D-pad, the D-pad is actually really good. This is funny. Friend of the show, Lewis Law says, isn't there a newer Ambronic thing? There is literally always a new Ambronic thing. Yeah. So. Every year, every quarter, every semester. Yeah. And reload the webpage. And actually, I was a, friend of the show, retro game core has a video about this.

There's a video about all the handheld devices out there. Go subscribe, I love this channel. I was watching a video about this or there's a new retro pocket. Five. I was like, I don't know. Wow. Anyway, one of the top comments of the video that I saw was somebody saying, hey, every time I hear your intro music, or no, every time I hear my husband listen to your intro music, I know that our bank account is going to get drained or something like that. That's pretty funny.

And I was like, yeah, unfortunately, that is kind of how it goes. I just like, if we go back to the steam deck thing for just a second while we're talking about it, I guess I, it's a new segment, new rules, right? I, if they're doing alternate colorways, this means that we're getting one step closer to like a GameCube orange steam deck with a handle. I've made look if they, if they color GameCube orange, it has to have a handle, right? That's the law. GameCube orange would be awesome.

Or a GameBoy color purple. Oh, like the translucent one? Yeah. I like translucent color. I like translucent, so perfect. If you could have a steam deck color Elena, which would be? Oh, you know what? Now that you mentioned the translucent thing, I think I'd like to, do you got, does anyone still remember this N64 translucent purple? Oh, yeah. Yes. Like, I would want a like handheld that has that style. Isn't that, is that the same color as the game? It's a different color than GameBoy, isn't it?

It's like lighter, I think. I don't remember, actually. But they, they, there are custom plates that you can get for the steam deck that are, or like that. Oh, Lewis Lawsett Famicom Edition steam deck. I, I get one. Yeah. I feel like they could have problems if they call it that though. I don't know. Yeah. Usually they get around it as long as it's the color way and then like a eight bit do, does that all the time. That's true. But they, they just call it something. They just jump up.

Yeah. They need to change like the buttons and stuff. Like if you wanted the Japanese Super Famicom color layout for your steam deck buttons, that's an easy, that's an easy swap. The changing the front panel is harder, changing the back panels relatively. You, I think, I've changed the back panel. Yeah. Yeah. The front panel is harder because of the screen. Yeah, that's all attached. J Sox is the company I was singing of that makes us those cases. Brad, what color, if you could have one?

I'm all about like Miami Vice, frickin purple, some pink stuff like that. So if they put one of those on and on and on, I'm actually on the market because I'm hoping to bring one of these to CES. So valve, get on it. There you go. There you go. Speaking to get it on it, we should actually get to the, should we do a podcast? I know. Maybe we should start a podcast. Should we start a podcast? Yeah. I mean, you just do the intro. We'll let it go. And here we go.

In front of me, I have the box that contains no CPU in it, but it's at least the box of the AMD Ryzen 7, 9800 X3D. I keep wanting to say Ryzen 9 because it's 9000, but no, it's Ryzen 7, 9800 X3D. All the reviews went up Wednesday. Thursday. No, Wednesday was the embargo. Thursday was the launch day. I actually wanted to pick up another one, but I got to it a little later and it was gone everywhere. Yeah, they were sold out. Wow. Paper launch. Am I right? No, it's actually a toilet paper launch.

It seems. Yeah, I would say, at least I would say, Brad, I don't know what you would say, but it feels like the internet was almost all in agreement here that the 9800 X3D is a damn good CPU. If freaking rocks, man, like it's not entirely a fair fight because the core Ultra 9, 2285K. I'm still 285K. I'm still 285K. There's out loud yet. But it regressed a little bit, but this thing just smokes what Intel's $100 plus chip more does.

Like this, the switch to second gen V cache underneath the CPU dial has eradicated all of the drawbacks that we had with previous generations about it not being able to overclock, and slow or stuff like that thermal issues, and I also made it a lot more compelling for productivity too. So this thing, you know, you're looking for a gaming first CPU that can also do smoke productivity. This thing rocks. It's kind of the all around king right now, right?

Like if you, if you're 16 threads, we'll do what you need. They're not going to do better. Yeah, I feel like you people usually pretty say, eight core 16 thread is like the sweet spot for most people. And I would tend to agree and yeah, that was the thing. So for me, so Brad did a nice write up. There's a link in the description. Gordon took all the testing information and did an awesome video. Go watch that if you haven't.

But yeah, for me, I kind of already knew, I mean, the 70 100 X3D, the 5800 X3D, all those X3D parts are aimed at gaming first, but this one because of that second gen V cache and having it stacked on the bottom allows it to be in my mind more than just a gaming CPU because I always felt like and you would hear this at launch as people would be like at the rise in 7000 launch or the rise in 9000 launch of the the non X3D parts, people, people were like, well, why they even releasing these?

Everyone's just waiting for the X3D parts. And I was like, well, no, actually, non X3D parts, you know, have plenty of reason to be there for for for people who don't just do gaming. I mean, but they can also gain quite well. But for me, it was always like, okay, you've got you've got the normal skews and then you got the gaming specific skews.

And sometimes it wouldn't line up because it was like, okay, well, we've got the, you know, an eight core part that doesn't have V cache, but then an eight core part that does have V cache and in gaming, the V cache version does better, but in productivity workloads, the non V cache version does better, but the gaming one is actually more expensive usually. So like it never fit in quite well. And which is also what?

I feel like that segmentation was really smart, honestly, on their part for a while, because like you could basically get people who wanted to game to pay a little bit more. Right? If you actually want it really strong gaming performance, then you would pay out for that. Well, yeah, but but now, well, and that's also why they they went away from having a non 3D V cache version that had an eight in it. So it was the 7700 X and the 9700 X and there was never a 9800, not 7800, non X, right?

And so I think they saw it as that as well. But the the weird thing for me is like, okay, you're paying more, sure, you're getting more gaming performance, but you're actually getting less performance than the CPU underneath it for if you were doing other content creation or productivity stuff. This takes that all the way in it like it almost literally just makes the stack just normal where it's like, okay, well, you pay more and across the board, you get more now.

And for me, the tagline, if I would have made a review video, I'd Gordon's video is awesome. If I if I would have made a review video of the title for me would be like, it's not just a gaming CPU anymore. And here we do a lot more productivity and content creation workloads, because that's just what we like to focus on for CPU testing. And especially for this one, you know, there was like, oh, well, should we do more game testing?

I'm like, yeah, sure, but we already kind of know that this is going to be pretty good for gaming. You know, I mean, we did some gaming testing, but for the most part, I want to see how much better it is for those other workloads. That's what I was excited about and what I was curious about. And yeah, I was just like, oh, wow, a friend of mine who does game development stuff was like, hey, what's the story on this thing?

Is this is finally the CPU that I can have like really best in class games and actually build my game that I'm working on on as well? And I kind of want to go dig into that and run some benchmarks on the 90 and now that now that run the unreal compiles and stuff like that and see how it goes. See to me, like, I agree with everything you're saying.

I think that there's no longer the compromises that this had in the past, but I think if you're looking to go out there and do some serious, heavy duty, like productivity, content creation, production work like you were just talking about, you would still probably want a 9950 X or even a Intel 285K. Like when it comes to multi-core stuff and things that just hate all those cores, those are still there's a reason there are a hundred bucks.

But this thing's, matches, entails 285 K by 25 to 30 percent in games, which is a beat down. I have not, I can't recall seeing that in decades in PC space. It's funny because like the 7800X3D smashed the 285K. Yeah, it's partially Intel's problems, which is the next segment. But yeah, I mean, like the, I don't know, the testing, and I actually, we had an open test bench. So I actually threw in a 5700X3D as well as 7800X3D to test against because I was like, yeah.

Well, originally I wanted to get a 5800X3D, but there are no longer available. So I was like, you know, 5700X3D is still available out there. And in a lot of the gaming scenarios, depending on what you want to do, like, I mean, the 9800X3D is still a good bump, but 5700X3D is still pretty good. But then when you look at content creation stuff, you're just like, oh, okay, why what's it leads behind? 57X3D is a 6 core? No, it's a core. It's a core. It's locked to 4.1. It's $250.

So it is considerably cheaper. Well, and it's in four parts, to be clear. In four parts, you know, yeah. So I was actually the big question for me coming out of your view. Now it's actually the final section of my written review. Like do you think if you have a 5800X3D, you should upgrade your gamer. If you're a creator, obviously, but if you're a gamer, what do you think? I think you're still good right now.

I mean, depending on what you game at and what you do, like, yeah, I feel like, I mean, a lot of the numbers and testing that I saw was just like, hey, this is a great part. I don't think it's an upgrade for the 7800X3D. I'm sure you would get a really good upgrade for the 5700X3D. But it once again, you'd have to figure out what you do. There's a caveat there because I still think it is really a good gaming CPU still.

But if you're doing anything than other than gaming, then it's just like, oh, okay, you're definitely going to see some big gains there. Well, and I think, I also think it depends if you're playing games. It depends on what video card you have. Like if you're not running a 4080, 4090, you know, the CPU is going to do more than your video card, you're not going to be going to be a GPU bound instead of a CPU bound in a lot of cases.

And I think in this, like, yeah, I think this is, I think we're still, we still haven't found the CPU that can make a 4090 CPU, a CPU bound or a GPU bound. So you know, if you're running a 4090, putting a faster CPU on real prices and benefit. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. That's my thoughts on it. Yeah. I was interested. I was digging into the numbers for mine because everyone's like, hey, I got the 5800X3D. 7800X3D obviously wasn't worth it. It's the 9800X3D. I thought I was digging into it.

Even the 5700X3D numbers that you did. And yes, it's 25% faster in gaming than 9800X3D. But when you look at the actual practical frame rates, like the 5700X5700X3D is just as fast as that Intel 285K. Like it's still a very potent chip. So and to do the upgrade between the DDR5 and the motherboard, it'll cost you at least $800 to upgrade to this. Well, so.

I mean, that's, that's the thing I look at like somebody in chat just a second ago, Arthur Magno said they're on a 3600 and they're thinking about getting a 5700X3D. That seems like an absolute no brainer versus like I'm looking. So central has Ryzen 9800X3Ds in stock, but they're only selling them in bundles of course. So like to get with the motherboard with the motherboard.

So to get the $480 CPU and a motherboard and RAM, you're looking at $800 total, you're much better off just going from supply. If you're on an A4 board, you're probably looking at 16 gigs of RAM on your system right now by a by a cheap set of 16 by two RAM and put a 5700X3D in it and you're good for another four years, probably, if you're, if your video card is, is reasonable. Like that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And for, and for life, man.

Yeah. I was just going to say that exact thing where it's like everyone's still kind of craps on AM4 being around, but pan the value you get out of it. It's unreal. Are, are, are all of those boy, like the thing I haven't gone back to look at because there's a bazillion boards. I wonder how many of them are getting BIOS updates for these newer CPUs.

Like, I wonder if there's, if there's like legacy AM4 boards that haven't gotten the, the micro code or whatever update they need to run 5700X3Ds and stuff like that. Well, I remember when they first announced Ryzen 5,000, they had said some of those first chipsets were not going to support, but then they walked it back and we're like, ah, we'll, we'll make it work. We'll make it work.

So yeah, I think there are some boards out there that, that still don't, but I mean, that's if you got in like on Ryzen 1,000. I don't remember what the chipset number was, but I would think that if you have a high end, like one of the 70 E class motherboards, at the very least, they would still get the updates for that. Yeah. Oh, oh, man, a friend of the show said this as my son went from a 1600. So Ryzen, the first gen Ryzen to a 5800X3D a while back. He is still happy with performance.

Oh, I bet. Yeah. Yeah. So that's fine to jump. Anyway, yeah. So that's, that's my thought, but also it's not like anybody can get a 7800X3D right now, even if they wanted to, to try to find some deals that sounds like those are all those. I was thought. Yeah. If you want to get a 98, 100X3D, it's going to cost you like 1500 bucks on eBay. No, those things are going to. No. No. So both gins are out right now.

Oh, no, it's, you can get tray versions of 7800X3D's at Central Heisman stock for $369 right now, but it's though he embers you know, yeah, yeah. What's up? Okay. That's 20 bucks off retail. That's pretty good. Yeah, it's not bad. Anyway, yeah. Good launch. I remember back when the Ryzen 9000 launch, a lot of people were like, oh, the uplift is barely there. What did this mean? This spells doom and gloom for the X3D parts when that comes out. But yeah, things, things are changed.

So I really liked, honestly, I was away. So I was on vacation when all this happens when I was catching up on it. And I was looking at some of the numbers for a different article that we did for the site. And one of the things I really liked about this was I feel like this still demonstrates AMD's kind of commitment to slow steady improvements over time.

Because I think what you're now that the narrative is all about, you know, like what a comeback or like what a launch, especially in this, you know, year of kind of, you know, disappointing flagship launches because of all the caveats that's kind of emerged around the initial testing and reviews. And I just think it's so cool that like, you know, we started this talk talking about how, you know, initially it was like gaming only to configure how it fit into the stack.

And I think that if you actually look at it from a bigger perspective, I think this just follows that same path where AMD goes, here's a product. It does it says what we're good. It does what we say it's going to do. And it does it very well. And then over time, they just build on that, right? So they they move the V cache position. Now we get this more even performance across the board. And I'm kind of excited to see what they are going to turn to next for this kind of approach.

Because so far, they've been consistent enough with it that I feel like we can so far we can kind of trust that process. Well, and I just realized, I think this is the closest that an X3D part has launched from the normal parts, right? Usually there's a little bit more of a gap there. Yeah. Yeah. So like I do wonder if like at some point those things will overlap and it's just like, oh no, you know, here we go.

We got we got the full stack the non non 3D and the 3D or if if okay, so maybe it doesn't completely align, but at least that alignment's going to get closer. Obviously, we don't have the rest of the stack out yet. This is just the 9800 X3D. There's rumors about when the next one will or the other versions of the X3D parts will come out. Well, yeah.

And then the other thing we haven't talked about really is the overclocking on this on this because of the upside down they've on the upside down V-gash. They unlock overclocking and the early results on that are kind of remarkable, which you were excited. You could do PBO for the 7800 X3D, which is technically an overclock, but yeah, like straight up overclocking.

We saw a friend of the show gamers in Xs in Bearded Hardware, I believe, did a overclocking stream and been a while since they did one of those. So they overclocked. I don't I don't remember what they hit. Maybe somebody in the check and they went to the door was out of nitrogen is my understanding. Oh, really? No, I don't know. I can bring my doer and if you want to get some more extreme overclocking. Man, I don't know. Let's let that rip. It feels like I would get hurt.

I don't know if I yeah, if I'd be getting on like, oh, this liquid nitrogen stuff is really cool. Cool. Yeah, if you just only stupid, you will absolutely get hurt. Yes. I mean, have you the lightest frost effect? Look, this will. Look, you meant me. Okay. If I do something stupid, I'm not going to do anything. I'm not going to do anything. You said if I do something stupid, I can't be off the floor. Yeah. He does keep floor candy kind of a lot. I thought it was a gum under my chair. It's a act.

Still, it's still got some flavor. Side note, when I was younger, I used to put gum behind my ear to hold it. Oh, you're that kid. Oh, my God. Were you the kid that you could dare to do anything and they needed it and then they never go to the hospital? Yes. This explains so much. I never went to the hospital. This is exactly why I'm the parent at trade shows. I'm telling you, no, don't pick that up. I have to do not put that in your mouth. I got all the blood. I got all the blood.

I got all the blood. No, get it out of your mouth. Don't eat the street. We were at Fruars thing to check out the airjet at CES last year and they were handing out little mango flavoring packets for water or whatever. And Adam was like, hey, what happens if I pour a bunch of these into some diet coke? They're like, I don't know. It's for water. He's like, hey, let's do a quick short. Someone take a video. I'm going to dump a bunch of these in. They're like, men, I'm just exploded all over.

Oh, yeah. Anyway, yeah. Yeah. So nine, eight hundred, eight hundred, I'm Will's put up a poll. I'm curious to see a nine percent ordered one. 11, 11 now. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. No, I mean, hey, it's a damn good part. It feels like a lot of people are happy to have a damn good part after a lot of these bad CPS this year. I do think. Are you mad or just kind of confused launches? Launches, yeah.

And also, like, I personally think there are still reasons that you might want to look at Intel, you still might want to look at like older generation stuff or non-X3D stuff. Like, I don't think this is like, oh, no, no, no, this is the only CPU you should get. Nothing else should be considered. Yeah. It always depends on what you're going for.

But for the most part, it's, this is going to be heralded as like the ultimate CPU, which is still, is still weird too, because like, for what you can get for this price, even though there are CPUs that are better at other things, then it still, like I think people are just being like, hey, this is one of the best of the best that you can get out there. It's in the vacuum, though, right?

Because I mean, as you just kind of hinted at, Intel has, you know, their optimizations in certain software that runs better on Intel parts. Still, I would assume. So that's going to affect what's best for whoever's building that particular system. Yeah, like Premiere Pro still favors Intel. Like AMD is right there, at least in our testing. So like it's not like it's like, oh, it's a clear winner, but Premiere Pro still pretty loves Intel.

Well, but does it love Intel because there's some more threads on the Intel CPUs or does it love Intel because of some inherent optimization in the Intel CPU? I think part of it's the quick sync integration for sure, which I'm still surprised that they don't use the the dedicated encoder and the AMD CPUs for acceleration, but me that's just a people don't use it because the quality is bad. Well, no, no, for like a like real time playback.

I was saying they're not not for for export, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you dig into the actual like what Puget tests Puget Puget. Puget. Puget. Puget. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't remember. Puget sound is high. If you look at the sub scorers, AMD does better on on non compress footage, where Intel actually does better on compress footage.

Interesting. Yeah. So like if you're trying to like real time playback or export compress footage, which I mean a lot of video professionals use like it favors Intel, but things like. Anyway, this gets back to everything we've been saying for a while. We're at the point where we're spoiling for choice. If you have a very specific workflow need like you can go out and look her views and figure out exactly which ship this is best for.

And sure, if you're running a 40 60 or something like that, you shouldn't go out and buy a $500 gaming CPU, even though it's the best you want something more in mind, but you want. But when AMD put out in this package, it should be held up as being some excellent. It got rid of all of the weaknesses of the past products and it just laid a beat down on Intel. Like they deserve their contours.

This was the perfect timing to because I feel I feel like it's just like, you know, AMD running over and kicking Intel while they're down because I'm so glad that you figured out the AMD Windows 11 issues, which I'm sure we'll talk about in the next segment. Sounds like Intel is going through some of its own right now, but I'm glad we had those TV and paying with the initial rise in 9,000 things. They figured it out 24 H2 is here and now the X 3D.

I think we're still I think they're still the feeling I get and we'll talk about this in the Intel segment, but I think the feeling I got even from the AMD announcement is that there's still up there's still room for better branch prediction and smarter ban prediction with Windows and Windows communicating, which stuff goes especially on the multi CCD chips going forward. Like it's it's it's this there's still movement to be had there is what is the vibe I get that's that's a great point.

I'm actually really interested to see how the 99 50 X 3D in equivalent shape up because the previous generations like they only put the cash on the one chip because they had all the issues both between communication and the overclocking and stuff and I'm really curious to see what shakes up this round with the news. I can gen be cash they fixed a bunch of different things and Windows like it could be awesome.

Well, and with those dual CCD chips, especially the X 3D ones, your thread scheduler had to say, okay, this is a thread that needs clock speeds. We're going to put on the non V cash. This is when it goes on the V cash and the solution was, yo, if you're playing a game, we're just going to turn off the non V cash cores entirely park. Sorry, park. I'm not using the right lingo. We'll turn it turn off. I feel like it's you know, okay, so we're going to set them so that you can't use them.

And that works most of the time, but then sometimes it doesn't and and it was it was a janky fix for a complicated problem. So hopefully we see more elegant solutions that involve hopefully Windows being smarter because my understanding is that a lot of these problems don't exist on Linux because the Linux journal knows how to send things to different CPU.

Like it knows the difference between different CPU core types and can direct threads more appropriately, which Windows doesn't really do as much. Yeah, I mean that that is the last part of the equation. The rest of the X 3D stack looks like it's probably safe to say that they'll keep around the Ryzen 9, the top end that there will be a 9950 X 3D. I'd be a 9900 X 3D this time. Yeah, that's one of the questions I have because I feel like that sat in a weird spot.

But then again, I remember at least a lot of people on our discord actually kind of liked it. Like it sat in a weird spot. Yeah, what do we think? Do you think there'll be a 9900 X 3D part? Or do you think it'll just be the 8 cores of 16 cores? Just a reminder, the 7900 is a 12 core 24th red. Now the question I have is is that a two two six core CPUs? Is that are those six core CCDs or 8 cores that two of the cores didn't pass cert?

Or didn't bin or those distinct dies that are built for six cores from the beginning? That's a good question. Because if they're, if they're, if they're, if they're, if they're, if they're, if they're parts and didn't bin, then we're going to see, we're going to see as 9900 X 3D because they don't want to just throw out all those failed failed CPUs. Yeah, they just, they make a little eight core does. I suppose they just disable cores to hit the 64 core. Yeah, they're variants.

But, but also in today's world where, you know, current consoles are all eight core, eight core machines and we're seeing a lot of games that actually are threaded and will hit seven or eight cores. Like you might, this is something we need to test. I'm really curious if there's a performance impact running on a six core CPU versus an eight core CPU for games that are actually native for the current gen consoles right now. Because I bet, I bet we'll, I bet there, there's impacts there.

Well, and you know what? I, I think you're on to something that, yeah, if those are bin chips, why not have them as a SKU? Because there is also a 7600 X3D that is micro center only Steve over gamers nexus actually did get one in for micro center. He did some testing really good video over there. And it comes close to the 7800 X3D and the ways that you want it to.

Yeah. So, yeah, that part is probably because they had a bunch of 7800 X3Ds that that, you know, not quite good enough, not quite good enough. So, yeah, okay. Okay. So, I probably answered my question there. I guess the other question is that I keep hearing a lot of people be like, oh yeah, next time, they're putting them on both CCDs, baby. All, you know, all the both, both cores, both caches. Let's go. I'm here to say no. I don't believe that they will.

I mean, unless they figured out a way to, to have that died, did I latency be reduced? Because I remember when the 7950 X3D came out and it was only on one core, everyone was pissed. They were like, what the hell? Why not give it on both cores? That's my perfect CPU. I want it. And AMD came out straight up and said time and time again in public and even, you know, buying closed doors. They were like, listen, we've tested that. You don't want that.

It's going to be so much more expensive and it actually performed worse in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. And thinking that there's a game that maybe once 10 cores, you know, so it'll take eight over here and then two over here, that it's going to be a horrible experience. You don't, you don't want that. And the price is going to be prohibitive. So I, I, yeah, I don't think they'll be cash on both cores. The price is the reason I think not, uh, without it being ridiculous.

Because if you look at the 90, 90, 700 X, it's like 320 bucks. Stim your amount of cores. The 9800 X 3D is clocked a little higher, but adding those V that V cash turns that into a $490 part or whatever it is. So it's a $170 premium for V cash. I don't think they're going to roll that out across all the chips. I mean, like, look, if you want the V cash on multiple chips, that's a, that's a Zen 6 or later thing.

Like if they, if they find a way to make the V cash glue the two, two CCD dies together, like, I mean, Intel does this with their L3, right? Like if they can put the V cash and it goes on both CCDs and then they both share the same cash so that they have, they can talk at the speed of cash. That's magic. I think that's fantastic. I, I don't think we're there yet. It's not going to happen this, this go around.

I don't think also once again, like, yeah, how many, how many games actually do need more than eight cores? Forgot. I mean, I think that's the question that you're asking. Yeah. You'd be insane to make a game that required that shows the appreciable benefit at more than eight cores right now given the market.

Yeah. The, the, the, the other thing, the thing that's interesting to me about all of this release, this launch is that AMD has stuck with this, this CC, this dual CCD, the dual compute die thing despite it being kind of problematic for reasons that are complicated and, and don't, I don't see like a fix fix. I see like a series of band aids is going to make you get better and better over time. Intel has all of their compute stuff on one die still, even on the, even on the chiplet design.

So their benefits are in manufacturing efficiency and cost, not necessarily in, hey, we can put even more cores on these chips because, because of, you know, the scaling them up beyond a certain point, it's difficult. So like they avoid all of these compute die to compute die latency problems and all of that stuff by just keeping all of the CPUs on one die.

And I'm curious if we're going to see down the line until desktop CPUs that have multiple compute tiles in the same way that we see like 9,09950s with multiple CCDs on the, triplets on the AMD side. And I don't, I don't know. Like we've ended up in a situation where everybody has the same problem where they have, not all CPUs are exactly equal, but for completely different reasons. And it's a weird, I think that's part of why Windows gets so screwed up these days.

Like it is CPUs are so much more complicated than they used to be. And Windows in a lot of ways is still living in a world where all CPU cores, like Windows just barely understands hyperthreading at this point. So like, you know, yeah. Speaking of problems, Intel has some problems. And we're going to talk about it. So there's actually kind of a gathering of stories that I wanted to break up in here, because a bunch of little stuff has been coming up over the past week.

So I'm going to put this into the description for a couple of articles over at PCWorld.com. I don't know if you heard of it, but you can point any web browser to PCWorld.com. And it'll get there, hopefully. It's a web site. It's for kids. Yeah. Hey, that's my hand. Yeah. So you can, you can go see an article right now that features Will's Hand. I'm holding a CPA. Yeah. The article is written by Mark. It's not Mark's hand, it's actually Will's Hand. Do I get hand credit?

Actually, I don't get hand credit. Wow. Just don't tell the lawyers. So yeah, there's one article. Let's start off here. Intel pledges to fix AeroLake after launch, quote, didn't go as planned. So Robert Hallock, which we've had on the podcast from the show, got on the hot hardware hot hardware podcast with a friend of the show's over there. And was talking about, you know what? And launched didn't go as planned. Maybe, you know, maybe you agree with them.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think if nothing else, their power profile stuff is definitely not what they intended to happen. There's other stuff down down. I think I think they didn't mean to release a CPU that underperformed pretty much everything else on the market. I think that's fair to say, right? Yeah. So here's a direct quote from Hallock saying, quote, here's, here's this old adage that we've talked about with journalists and hardware companies alike that a new platform is hard.

Anytime you radically overhaul anything it presents new and sometimes unexpected challenges. And I think what people have been interested to hear is what happened. And I can't go into all the details yet, but we intel. We've identified a series of issues, multi factors. They're at the OS level, they're at the bios level. And I will say the performance we saw in reviews to be very clear through no fault of reviewers was not what we expected, not what we intended.

The launch just didn't go as planned and that's been a humbling lesson for all of us. And it's kind of inspired a fairly large response internally to get to the bottom of what happened and to fix it end quote. Sorry, it was a long thing, but you know, lots to dig into here. I mean, that's one of many quotes. Yeah. Check out the article or even better yet, hardware's video. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's the thing we said ages ago, like new platforms are hard.

It's, AMD had the same problem at similar problems with their expected review. Like they, they bet everybody tests this stuff internally to death just to be clear. It's not like they're, these chips are coming off the fabric. Okay, well, chips are done. Let's send them right out to the reviewers and let's see how it goes. And a lot of it's theoretical testing too. Yeah. To figure out like, oh, hey, what, what, what should, what do we think we should be hitting?

Yeah. So, but, but like the systems, like the system, and when I say system, I don't mean like APC, I mean, the system of the computer, all the bits and pieces that make up a computer now is so spectacularly complicated. And one or two small changes from reviewers to what they're testing internally can have an enormous impact, right? And I do not envy the people who have to, who run their testing labs that their phones were lighting up in the embargo lifted.

They were like, hey, everybody's benchmark numbers are off. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting stuff. I mean, it sounds like that they will have something to report what is this, either by end of November or early December, and then work to fix it. So, you know, hopefully in the next couple months, something I'm curious to see what they can identify, how that actually translates to fixes.

And if that can help, just to surmount some of the odd, very odd numbers that we're seeing, especially in gaming. I feel like in a lot of productivity stuff, we saw some good stuff, but especially in gaming, it was just like, oh, oh, that's not. I'm not surprised by the gaming results, because again, for generations, they've just been juicing the hell out of Raptor Lake, Rocket Lake and stuff like that. And this is the switch to a more energy efficient one.

But I'm pulling back on a macro level for a second. Like, I generally hope they have success. AMD recently went through this as we'll say, and they got the Windows 11 update out and a couple other updates and things are looking great. We're sitting here praising the 98, 100 X 3D. Until itself just went through this with Intel Arc. Like those drivers were a hot mess when they launched. But right now, like, I wouldn't necessarily tell someone to go look for an ArcCard, but someone got an ArcCard.

I wouldn't be like, Rose, you should go change that out. So I hope they actually wish them well. I hope they do have success. I'm getting super tired of all of these huge launches just being broken at launch. And I think it's partially the chip company's fault for just introducing new stuff all the time without communicating lockstep with Windows. I think part of it's Microsoft's fault for not being able to keep up with the pace of innovation that the CPUs are doing.

But it's been a trying year for PC. Like the Microsoft, the speed at which Microsoft moves on like for good reason, like they move slow on kernel changes and a lot of the stuff is kernel, kernel like low up really, really low level changes. I hope, you know, and just be clear, the Microsoft problem is that they support billions of users, right?

And what they change needs to work and be reliable for billions of users and the millions of new machines that are shipping that support these new CPUs are a blip in there in their overall market. So they don't, they're not incentivized to move quickly, right? As opposed to Linux where Intel and AMD can just provide engineers that make the kernel changes and then they get tested and shipped out to everybody.

So it's a, you know, this is why if you want to really support the latest hardware, you should be all in on Linux, baby. Just, yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. 2025. You're a Linux. I've heard. I've heard. You're a Linux. Here we go. And chat here from Francisco, Antesco. So it sounds like video games, which is a comment I think I made on a previous show, which is like this feels very much like when video games started going to the day one patch era. Oh, yeah. It just didn't work right away.

You had to run that software update and it's a, I will echo Brad here. It sucks to see hardware moving that direction. For me, I would say the part that sucks most is kind of from a more pragmatic point of you. The consumers actually will have a difficult time making an informed choice about what to get. Right. Like, all of us are more plugged in. So we know like, okay, like this, these are TVing pains.

There's going to be some growth because I mean, none of these companies want to leave their launches as they are. They want to have a product that people will want to buy. But the question then becomes for a consumer. Well, when is it going to improve how fast will that happen? I don't know what the improvements are going to be. So now what do I buy? Because do I, because we always tell people don't buy based on projections, right? You have to buy on based on what you get.

So it's nice that we have the 9800 X3D because that is something you can, you know, unequivocally recommend to somebody if that's the right thing for their, for their budget and for their use, you know, use case. For everybody else, it's a little like, hmm, like, what do I tell you to get when you ask come to me for advice?

Or if you don't have someone to advise you, what do you, how do you make this decision when you're trying to go through all these articles and make an informed choice about where you're putting your money? Right. So that's the part for me that sucks. Like I think Brad speaks really well about like kind of like the more kind of intellectual theoretical. We're watching this almost like a sports game kind of perspective.

But for my perspective, this is the day, kind of what do you do when you go out to buy something? I think that sucks even harder because it affects so many more people than just those of us who like to watch this like a sports game. And for better or worse, a lot of the narrative is driven at the beginning. There's the launch, you know, there's a lot of buzz and that's that then something could get solidified in the brain, even even if, you know, things kind of go on to get fixed.

I wonder like the 9800 X3D probably most likely came out the way that it did because of all the teething pains for the rise in the 9000 launch, right? But I wonder if the rise in 9000 launch is still kind of like looks bad in people's mind and just think that the 9800 X3D is just a better saying, not realizing that one led to the other and there has been updates to the rise in 9000 launch.

Yeah, because a lot of times I mean, it's just you just hear that that initial narrative and then it's hard to break it. And I mean, I wish as reviewers, I wish we had time to re-benchmark stuff, you know, every month, but we don't. So. Well, when Keith did that, like every so often check in on ARC, that was super cool. Yeah. Well, that was really helpful.

And the, I mean, on the other hand though, the people who care about this stuff the most are probably the ones who are the X3D customers anyway, right? So if you're in the range for a $200 low end desktop CPU, you're probably not like shopping benchmarks, you're looking at price and looking at what video card comes with that machine and whatever. And it's the equivalent of walking into Best Buy or Micro Center and just buy in the one with the good RGB lights.

I think, I think like makes it go faster. We don't look at these 100% the science is there. We should test that also always be testing always be testing as well as the motto of the customers, what we say, I like it. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. It's, this has been the weirdest CPU launch cycle. I think I ever remember for what it's worth. Like like Ryzen one, like Ryzen, when Ryzen came out, I remember every BB like, man, that's a lot of cores. Wow, this computer. This is real janky.

Um, and, and that was weird, but then Intel was just like, hey, we're doing the same thing we always do. You get the cores you want and it's rock solid. Nobody gets fired for buying Intel. I think it's what organ, Gordon always says. Yeah. Well, I mean, and here's, here's the next thing. There is an article that I linked to in the description. Uh, I believe this is also written by one Mark Hawkman, but this article does not seem to feature Will's hand. I do. Right. He does. Why? Where's my hand?

Yeah. No hand in this article. Oh, that's cool. Uh, it's the head is AMD's desktop CPU share source 10 percentage points in a year. So, uh, I will say Intel for a desktop CPU share. This is a, uh, a report brought out by Mercury research, uh, going into the, the actual market share and stuff and lo and behold, which, which we knew, uh, Intel actually still does hold a commanding lead over AMD, uh, the, what is this? So Q3 2024 market share stands at 71% Intel and AMD 28%.

But that is, is up from 19% year over year for AMD. So they, they, they, they have done a lot right and they have made a 10% swing in market share. But still Intel has a, has a very large lead out there. So yeah. But I mean, this is a trailing this, what is it? They've business people say this is a trailing indicator lagging indicator or something.

It's, this is one of those ones that like, if Intel, if AMD is the only one that has only, if AMD is the only company that sells desktop CPUs this quarter, they're going to move it like two percentage points to three percentage points at the outside. So this is, this is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, especially because they, they clogged back three percent in laptops to, which has traditionally been very hard for AMD. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

It's, it's funny because like the, the laptop, the laptop rollout was much more stable. And there's real clear, there's clear direction there, right? Like if you want power battery life, you buy Intel and you sacrifice a little bit of power, if you want a little more power, you buy the AMD one and you sacrifice a little bit of battery life. And if you want to be able to run like eight tenths of your software that maybe think about Qualcomm and pass on the, on the rest of that.

So like it's a much, it's a much easier proposition, I think, than, than say the desktop stuff is, which until the X3D rolled out was like, hey, these are both kind of okay, but they got some weird stuff. And if you like, you know, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it is lagging desktop though. So if you look at the Q3 2023, the market share split between Intel and AMD on both desktop and mobile was almost identical 80% Intel on both and 19% AMD on both.

But in that year time, desktop, uh, shut up to 28% where mobile shut up to 22%. So not the same kind of climb, but definitely, definitely a climb. But also the refreshes hadn't landed yet, right? So to, for these numbers to count probably, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe these include the tail end of the refreshes, but Lunar Lake wouldn't have landed yet. Yeah. Yeah. Lunar Lake only is just starting to come out in the laptop number. Yeah, just barely. Like, this is, this is meteor lake.

This is Raptor Lake, I think is the last. Yeah. Which you would think, off of the, the meteor lake launch that, uh, more people would have been looking AMD for sure. Meteor Lake had a rough, I mean, I think that's what we see would, I mean, I think that's what we see. Well, but I, I would have seen a bigger difference. I feel like we should have seen a bigger difference based off of meteor lake stuff. But once again, I mean, we say, AMD's making it roads with vendors, man.

Yeah. Like, there's, there's, there's all that, uh, there's all that groundwork that Intel continues to be the, the market, you know, dominator and in both segments for, for a lot of reasons. Like, we're not going to see a, a flip of that for, for many, many years if that, if that happens. The other fundamental problem with this kind of like this, this, this, we have limited data here, right? So we have market share, but we don't have volume sales for those quarters.

And like, I would be curious if sales are down in 2024 Q2 because everybody's kind of waiting and seeing to see what go like, like, like corporate customers don't wait and see because somebody starts and they need a new laptop. You buy them a new laptop, right? But I think home consumers, you know, like retail laptop purchases, probably the informed customers were kind of like, Hey, man, I'm going to wait and see how this meteor lake thing seems.

Matt, Speaking, they, they said, uh, that overall for CPUs, like they were modestly up year over year, but well below seasonal norms, which still doesn't get into volume specifics, but yeah, it's a CPUs were still kind of up compared to last year. To me, this really reflects that, uh, you know, we're seeing it in Intel stock price and layoffs and stuff like that. Like, they got caught out with a bad year for CPUs. Like meteor lake was not garbage, but it was not great.

Like when we went to see ESL last year, we were talking to laptop vendors. They're like, yeah, we're putting out meteor lake. Yeah, AI is starting to come in, but what you really want to wait for is lunar lake when that comes out around Computex. That's going to be dope. It turns out that's 100% true. And meanwhile for these numbers, AMD's rising 9,000 at just launch. So that's obviously going to give AMD a spike.

But at the same time, we're all saying, Hey, nobody buy Intel CPUs because they are electrocute themselves. Like between those two things, I'm not surprised to see AMD make a massive leap here. Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point because like there was a period of time there. If you were buying a high end, unlock CPU, you just are like, man, don't buy a 13, 9, or K or 14, 9, or K because they're catching on fire and we don't really know why.

Even if you're buying a lower end to one of every PC gaming site that you read, every PC site that you read is saying, Hey, man, just don't buy Intel right now. It's not worth it. Even if you're buying a core right through your core, I think you kind of listen. And that's still there's still knock-ons on that, right? Like there's a there's a class actually. People are still buying now.

There's a lawsuit against Intel for somebody that bought a 13, 700 K or something like that that's that's like, you know, they're trying to make it a class action, which is you knew was coming. Yeah, we actually published a post on that this week as well. It's because yeah, just part of it's transparent troubleshooting process. Intel was actually like, yeah, we identified this problem last year. It was a limited batch. So we didn't do a recall.

We just replaced those ones like that kind of stuff. So the lawyers pay attention. The premise is that they launched the 14,000 series knowing that there was a problem with it. Yeah. Yeah. So getting all that and the court and all that stuff. Oh boy. Yeah. That is another adding to another of Intel's troubles. I just all this court cases. I mean, all I know is looking at these lunar lake and the rise in AI nine stuff.

If I had bought a meteor like laptop in the start of this year, I'd be really bummed out right now. I think. Yeah, especially they don't even get co-pilot that they want co-pilot, but yeah, you're fine. You're going to buy the news to laptop. It's going to actually be a feature. Yeah. No, no, like the last laptop you can buy without co-pilot is probably a selling point for a large portion of the audience. Very, very good. You got to buy this. It's not going to get co-pilot.

You got to get on that. Well, but I mean, but also that really has to hurt Intel. They like they rolled out these laptops and then Microsoft rolls out this giant marketing initiative that doesn't support the laptops that they have for three months. That's going to impact those numbers too. Yeah. Well, speaking of impact in numbers, there's another article that I have here that I linked in the description. Let's copy and paste that. So it opens up. And Intel had their financials recently.

It's all good news. We're waiting. And one Mark Hawkman wrote it up again. And that guy just writes a lot. He could take vacation. He's a touch grass, man. He's a typewriter. He's got a leaf filled in. Maybe he's touching grass with one hand while typing. For these, he's sitting outside in a meadow surrounded like like these birds on his shoulders and his... Is this butterflies? Yeah, exactly. He's just singing to himself and puddles. Yeah. What I'm saying is Hawkman is a Disney princess.

And yes. And he's awesome. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. So the title here is Intel lost more money than it made last quarter. Subhead is Intel piled on the accounting changes as it goes through a restructuring process. So, yeah, high level. We didn't even get into the details of necessarily financial stuff, but that's probably not good. If a company doesn't make more money than it's been. Right. I mean, what are the losses in investment and restructuring? Well, no, there's depreciation.

Boy, there's a lot of stuff in here. I mean, the TLDR and Intel for a long time has been, hey, they're investing in fabs in the United States and they've got some government money to help with that. And they're spending a lot of money to make money in the future in these long bets. In these big long bets. Pat keeps talking about 18 A. Yeah. Well, they killed 28. So now 18 A is going to be even better. Well, because, yeah, this is looking so good.

So, you know, but, but like they got a, it's going to be a while yet before chip start rolling off the 18 A line. And in the meantime, they're sending money to TSMC for all of their new compute tiles. I actually, I think all the tiles in, in arrow lake are, except for the base tile are made by TSMC. So yeah, like, yeah, it's the, I don't know, man, it feels rough. Yeah. Now, they've definitely got a lot of stuff.

And yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, to go back to something we were talking about earlier, I think the hard, the hard part for a lot of consumer confidence at least, is that like, we've seen what at least, what is this four launches now, where it's launched, the Intel has had really rough launches to the point where they've had to come out and be like, oh, yeah, we agree. This is a rough launch. We're going to work on it. We're going to learn from it.

And it's like, how many, how many times can you come out and say that? I mean, it's good. Listen, it's just people who work at Intel. It's just, you know, it's just people trying to do their job, get the stuff done, stuff isn't lining up. There's obviously a lot of stuff that they're dealing with. But at the end of the day, it's hard to have that same narrative once again to be like, hey, we messed up. We want to learn from it. We're going to try to fix it.

You know, how many times can the general consumer market kind of go through that kind of stuff? I think that's part of it is driven by the ambitious goals that they have because they keep saying we want five nodes in four years. They've been on pace for that. And, you know, when you're Russian trying to hit those, those are very strenuous deadlines when you're making new computer processors from scratch out of sand and all the other little bits that go into it.

But when you're Russian stuff out like that to try to hit a milestone like that, like more TV and panzer bound to happen, I think. So I hope they get caught up soon and can take a little bit more time to not necessarily rush out all these images. I also wonder how much of it is also related to the fact that, you know, we had some very unusual working conditions for at least a few years.

So I kind of, I mean, if this continues, obviously, you can't attribute it to, you know, trying to have to work fully remote or hybrid for a while. And, you know, it, it, the chips, you know, when the pun intended, the chips are just following what they do.

But I, I do wonder if we will start to see more stability in what's released from both Intel and honestly, you know, AMD, given how this year's gone, as we get kind of past that era, because you know, some of this roadmap stuff like happens years before, right? So I'm not giving anybody a pass, but I just wonder how much of that is also a factor in all of this. Also, yeah, I mean, uh, front of the show date is that has a good point there.

The general, you know, Joe Schmo, who goes into a Best Buy and buys a laptop isn't going to be like, Oh, Intel, I've heard they're having problems. So like they're just going and they're looking at a laptop, they're buying something and they, I wish they would look more at specs or, you know, research a little bit more, go over to PCworld.com, you know, for laptop buying advice. Uh, but yeah, you know, they're actually around, we're in paste review over 130 different laptops this year.

So if you want to go pick it up and it's new, there's probably a good change. Look at us, chickening. I'm petting my back. I didn't do anything. That's all you see here. I'll pet every week. Pat bread, bread's back without ruining the, the TV. Don't break the scene. Yeah. No, so that is a good point. I do wonder, I mean, they still have a commanding market share. Uh, 77% is still nothing to sneeze at. Uh, they, they do have ambitious goals. I, I do think they have a long runway.

I don't think Intel is just all of a sudden going to, you know, just go out of business. So I, I do think they have time. But yeah, it's, it's, they, they need to continue to work on it. Need to continue to be transparent. I, I do like that. I do like that. Robert, how like went on the podcast and, and was transparent. That's, that's, that's all good stuff for sure. Well, and, and the, the other thing to remember is that like we were hardware, like, this, these are finance problems, right?

These aren't, these aren't like, hey, the computer is not going to work problems. This is not, hey, Intel is not going to be here in five years problems. This is, I mean, I mean, maybe, but this is, this is, this is, people who lose 16 billion dollars a quarter. No, no, they only lost three billion. They, they, they made 14 billion. They, they lost 16. So, you know, I'm, I'm an accountant now. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's not like there's two, Intel has had two different problems.

The, the one is that their, their chips are slow compared to the other guys chips. The other is that they have spent a lot of money building up new infrastructure, two do chips for the future and that, that stuff, unfortunately, like building a fab isn't something you can do in a quarter, right? Like when you look at spending billions of dollars on these fabs and upgrading old fabs and whatever, I think the 18 A1 is in Ohio someplace.

It's, it's, this stuff takes a long time and it's going to take billions of dollars, spent over a period of years. And the market is like, hey, man, why are you losing so much money? They don't care that they're building stuff that's going to pay off this investment over 20 years. They just care that your numbers are not right this quarter and Jim Kramer yells about stuff on CNBC and then your stock goes down. Capitalism, baby. Yeah. Look, but, hey, at least we got Coke flavored Oreos.

Yeah. It's not good. And Oreo favorite Coke. Maybe the Oreo flavor Coke was okay. It's actually, it's okay. But mix it too, huh? I've tried that yet. Yeah, terrible. Always be testing. The theme of the podcast, we love to test. Yeah. So patients. Yeah. This is. Other things. This is rough times, but I don't think this builds the end for Intel. And the, but the story is, the story is far from over. There's a lot of, a lot of questions about future stuff.

And we did get one question in that I want to get to, which, let's, let's move over to the Q&A, shall we? Questions and answers. If you got a question right now at the Full Nerd podcast in the chat, it's kind of the easiest way for us to see it. Or if you're watching or listening to this later, there's a link to the, the discord. So hang out with some fine folks over there.

And there's a channel that you can put a question in that, hopefully you will get your, your question read on, on the next show that we're going to have. But we just got one in from, friend of the show, Liquid R is 2025, the year of Battle Mage. Speaking of Intel. I mean, they didn't, they didn't tell come out and say, hey, we want a big integrated CPU GPU. GPUs now. Yeah, there was that, there was that quote. That's like a bad quote, trying to, trying to diminish discrete, GPUs.

Well, what did you get from that, Brad? Uh, yeah, I think they're still going to be coming. I don't have a lot of insight into how they'll perform yet. I would assume it'd be in the same, you know, affordable region as the initial art cards. That quote gave me a lot of trepidation. Uh, like it might only be one or two graphics cards for affordable people. It makes a lot of sense to try for chip makers to try to integrate graphics and get rid of some $200 graphics cards to me.

But yeah, this, it doesn't smell good with everything else until that going on these days. This is, this is the kind of quote you heard, like six months before they killed Larby. If I remember right, it's like, yeah, you know, we're, we're really optimistic about our CPU and our integrated graphics performance. And then they just don't, they just, they just kind of stopped talking about the other one. And then, yeah, to be fair, the IGP performance on Lunar, like, is, is pretty good.

Yeah, there are rooms that we might see battlemage teas at least next month. We'll see if they rush out a tease ahead of CES. I feel like that would seem to me that it has not super great confidence against AMD and Nvidia's next gen stuff, because I would expect to see AMD and Nvidia's next gen stuff at CES. So, I mean, really we'll have to see they've done a lot of great work building up those cards. They offered great value once the drivers started working.

I hope it's not the death of it. To me, GPUs are very important, even for the data centers and businesses we're Intel struggling right now, like the whole big picture they need GPUs more now than ever before. Yeah, so I hope I really hope it keeps going, but that's, that's not super thrilling enough of a close. Yeah. I, I mean, look, if they're going to roll out a GPU given, unless they, unless they have magic performance juice inside the GPUs, it's going to make them beat everybody.

The time to do it is before everyone else does, and it seems like that window is closing. So I mean, unless December launch, baby, that's, that's where you make your money in the GPU game. Wait, okay, DJ, Voo, didn't we say this last time too? Look, I wasn't here last time. That was a very good point, but I do think they're still, they're still, like Brad said, they're going to be aiming at different markets.

You know, AMD, or sounds like AMD and Nvidia are going to be, or maybe Nvidia is going to be aiming for the, for the moon and video, or AMD is still kind of in that, that mid-range.

I don't think they're going to roll out, you know, the lower end, but if, if Intel can come out in the low end and focus on there, then, then you've got, you know, I think less competition, if that makes sense, where Nvidia is like just aiming up there and Intel's aiming down here and being really good price for performance, hopefully. Yeah. I think it's crossed. Well, we will, we will see if it to be determined if 2025 is the year of battle mage.

More competition is better, so I would love for battle mage to come out and just kick ass. Actually, too, the architecture that battle mage is based on is also the cornerstone of the graphics inside of Lunar Lake and Lunar Lakes graphics, depending on the laptop they're in, are awesome. So that gives me hope that battle mage might be significantly better than Arclose. Yeah. I'm going to get back to some superchets that were asked earlier. XPod X gave us $5. Thank you so much. Thank you.

And said, this is actually wonderful. Well, here we go. Do you think the, do you think an i9 to 9900K will handle a 5090 fully at 4K 144 Hertz ultra 125 to 150% render in Call of Duty, Modern Warfare 19, Vanguard, et cetera? No. I do not think that I have a 9900K. That's my stream machine. It just put a 5090 in that. You got it, right? It is. Yeah, if you got 5090, I can help dam it in there. Yeah, I need a power supply upgrade, probably to run a 4090 in that thing.

This is obviously a very pointed question. And we don't know what the 5090 is. But can a 9900K get bottlenecked by 4090 right now? Yeah, 100%. Like, when I, so I was running of 9900K as my main system when the, when the 4090s came out and I had to borrow a CPU in order to test that thing and get actual numbers that made sense out of it because it was bottlenecked like crazy on the 9900K. Just I think probably the memory memory in that machine was like 3600 mega transistors per second.

So it was, it was, it was slow. And that was probably Zen, like last gas was Zen 4, like Ryzen 3 probably was 5800. Is it a 1500? I don't think the 700x3Ds were out yet when the, when the, when the, yeah. When the 4090 launch, it was still, yeah. So I probably, I think I tested it on a, on a Intel 12900, if I had to guess. And that was, that was, yeah. It's, it's, but I mean, at the same time, it's going to be fast.

You're going to get, you're going to, you'll, you'll, you'll get 4K at 144 Hertz with 150K render in Call of Duty. Call of Duty is pretty performant. I don't, I don't, not super familiar with Modern Warfare 9. Is Modern Warfare 19 the two versions ago, I think now? No, I think that, I think that, I know that's five. Yeah, it's every year for people in duty. I think they're just saying, you know, whatever next year, yeah.

Like, you're going to get, if you have a 4090 or 5090, whatever, on Call of Duty, whatever thing you could put it in a, in a, in a Sky Lake, and you're going to get OK performance probably because of the way Call of Duty works. I can't remember. Somebody had testing on YouTube where they tried to match a 4090 with the slowest GPU, like Modern GPU. I can't remember what GPU was in like, just to see how much it bottled in CPU. CPU, yeah. Sorry.

Uh, here's, here's the thing about this question though, like it's very specific to this very game. Uh, and to me, that game is five years old. Yeah. Like, I would not be surprised if the CPU is bottled like there. If you get a 5090 or 4090, that will not be the bottleneck in that system. The CPU definitely will be the question is though that game is five years old. Can it even handle if you drop in a 9800 X3D? Is it the engine even possible to run that high?

Like I would try to go look for YouTube videos and see if there's someone else who are looking for this exact thing in that exact game because yes, upgrading your CPU with the theoretically give you higher frame rates in those older cod games, but there's no guarantee that the engine can keep up with it anyway. Well, and the fundamental problem with the 4090 much less than whatever 5,000 series in video comes out with is that it's always CPU bound.

It is really hard to make video games not CPU bound with a 4090 to the point that like we put 4090s in our CPU test beds so that everything is CPU bound. Uh, yeah, it's just a monster. Also, I have to, uh, I have to correct myself. I thought, I thought they were making a joke like Modern Warfare 19, like, you know, in the future, no, they meant, uh, Warner Warfare from 2019.

Yeah. Okay. So, uh, they're just saying like, Van guard, Van guard's the sledge, the last sledgehammer game, I think it's the World War II one. Uh, that they're making a joke. Modern Warfare 19, you know, which, yeah, no, no, no, we get to it at some point. We're, I think we're already past modern Warfare 19 if you're counting anyway. Maybe, yeah. Uh, very specific question. Uh, a friend of the show, Mike Quentin gave us a $10 Super Chat.

So much that, uh, our Intel, our Intel CPU sold mostly on desktops or laptops, meaning mobile in real terms, what is AMD's market share increase in servers? How close is AMD to taking away Intel's total PC or server market share? Uh, that report actually did get into a server stuff. Let's see if I can find it real quick. Uh, server CPU share, uh, third quarter, 20, 24 stands at 75% Intel, 24% AMD. Uh, so that number varies depending on which analysts is looking at it.

At AMD Ryzen Epic processors, not Ryzen, uh, have up to a third share in many reports. Of do sales or overall market, Brad, sorry. Yeah, huh? Of new sales or of overall market. Uh, new sales, it's sending towards, it's getting bigger. Okay. The more recent that it is. Uh, Intel. No, predominantly not predominantly, but the biggest slice of the pie is laptops. Most people via laptops, most people don't buy desktops these days. Businesses and gamers are different. Uh, so it's definitely laptops.

Yes. That's the part where AMD is lagging behind, but it has been making big inroads in over the last few generations. But I feel like if AMD continues to, you know, keep gobbling up server share, getting all the IT nerds on their side, keeps gobbling up desktops share, PC gamer share, getting the gamer enthusiasts on their side, like I feel like laptops are sure to follow it simple. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Yes, you're right.

Laptop, far and away, the largest, largest amount of devices that get sold, but there's a reason that we review 100 and 30. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Um, skip to some more questions over here on the discord. Um, eight, ooh, I don't know, saying this, uh, eight, eight, a lyric, maybe a lyric. Yeah. Uh, new questions hot off the press. Uh, welcome to discord says, uh, uh, price forecast for Nvidia's 50 series. We, we talked about that recently, uh, during the, what is it?

Uh, maybe three weeks ago. I can't remember rumors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When we were talking about rumors, but has that changed for you at all? I don't remember what you were priced that you were aiming for, but Brad has that changed for you at all since then. It doesn't, to me, I can see it going from 2500 to 3500 dollars. And I explain all my thoughts. Why in that 50 90 rumors episode? Yeah. I'm still sticking with 2000.

Look, they sell the, they sell the, the blackwell parts for $50,000 to data centers. It's a deal. The more you buy, the more you save is what I've heard too. Yeah. I mean, the, the TLBR is the 40 90s came out at 14 99. We haven't seen them sold for less than $2,000. I think it was 1599. 1599, whatever. Was 100, but yeah, it's all the same. Like the, the real answer is if you have to ask, it's probably, probably you're out of the range.

Yeah. But the rumors say the memory is doubly, and we're just going to make it super awesome for developers, Nei enthusiasts and people who want to mind other bitcoins going in. Now that you can buy them on GPU, but that kind of stuff. And I think that Nvidia realizes that they priced it too low. Seen to sell the price at 1599. You can't buy it for less than $2,000. They're going to want some of that money back.

So I think the 50 90s is going to be a beast of a card that most people cannot afford unless you're using it for work. Yeah. And I still kind of, I still kind of feel like the 50 90 price will change. I mean, we're kind of debating on how much it'll change. But I still feel like the rest of the stack doesn't change. That, you know, that the 50 90, they just push further out and be like, Hey, if you really want one of these, then you really want one of these. The rest of the stack stays the same.

I mean, why would they leave money on the table, though? If they can argue that it's going to be more performant, then why would they leave money on the table? They already pushed it too far last gen. Yeah. I mean, I'm not advocating for this. I want to be clear. I am absolutely not advocating for this. But I mean, as Gordon likes to say, companies are in business to make money. Oh, for sure.

Yeah. But in, but in videos in the unique position of this market being relatively minuscule compared to the place that they make real money now. And therefore, you know, like what's there? If they, if they jack prices up 20% on customers like they did last go around, it's not going to impact their bottom line at all, right? Like when they're selling these GPUs for AI data centers at 50k at pop, this is a, this is a, like, there's no up. There's, yeah, it's where we're insignificant.

So. And here's, here's the thing I think a lot of people don't realize because you don't talk with representatives from Nvidia and Intel and AMD the way that like we do, they really care about their public perception at Nvidia. Like I was pretty harsh on the 40 series, I'm like, why the hell is this $230 more than the last one for 5% more performance? And I think that sort of criticism, one, they had a lot of questions around it. They're like, hey, let's talk about this level blah, blah, blah.

But then the super series also did come out because they don't want negative press like that lighten up all the headlines. I think that's the reason we saw the super series now. That's the reason we saw super series for the 20 series because it was the same complex claims. I actually agree with that. And the 48 who did drop in price for the super. So. Yep. So I don't think they're completely immune to it.

Yeah, that's just my guess is that the 59 you just could push out further the rest of them price hold. Well, and the rest of them real people have to buy, not that AI developers and whatnot are not real people, but gamers have to buy and trying to justify more than a grand on a graphics card. Hard would be played. And the difference between when you're paying for it and your, you know, companies paying for it.

Yeah. But also AMD has signaled that they're going to get the fat part of the curve, right? They want to get that mid range part. And like the thing in video doesn't want to do because you don't keep your stock price nice and high is seating market share. So they're going to do whatever they have to do to maintain that market share. Oh, oh, and he had that. But I mean, well, I think they're like 88% but I don't got much, much market share to least. But like, okay.

So there's a business school anecdote that people share about Sterno. Sterno is a canned heat product that, you know, it's like, it's like fuel and a can. You use it for fondue dishes and chafing dishes and stuff like that. Yeah. Really, really popular in the global South at the time. And it was, it had 95% of the global market. And the company that owns Sterno was like, Hey, man, every division of our, of our company is going to increase market share this year.

And they were like, dude, we got 95%. How are we going to do this? And so they paid a whole buttload of consultants to come in and figure out how to carve 2.5% out of whatever other, whatever other canned heat products existed in the market. They don't, they are going to do whatever they can to not lose market share. And if that means that they been out, some failed black wells for, for, for mid-range gaming cards that light the world on fire, it's no skin off of their teeth.

Those things were just going to go in the recycling bin anyway. So, yeah, it's going to be a, this is a, I'm, I am, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm wildly curious to see how these cards perform on all, all free fronts. And B, I'm curious if this maybe we'll have a launch that everybody doesn't, the numbers don't come out. Everybody's like, Oh, no, you're, these numbers are lower than we were expecting. Something's jacked up on testing.

Because theoretically, GPUs are at least a little bit simpler than, than everything else. Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. Yeah. We're going to have to talk about how we're going to do all that testing. Yeah. So we'll see. Yeah. You've, friend of the show, Yapa Plectic said asked, what are the second and third largest PC slash consumer components that you do utilizes the fastest speed PCIe 16 slot can offer?

It seems that all we know these days, only a GPU sits on that slot, not, not including server grade components. So essentially asking what else can you put in a, a by 16 slot that is going to actually use by 16 that is not a, some weird, like a, like a, a bread, um, shoemaker kind of, you know, some, well, some people put some, there's high speed nicks, high speed interconnects for, for nicks.

And then there's also weird SSD slots that have like, yeah, or, yeah, that have like, yeah, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, four, five, five, four, five, four, five, four, m two slots that have four lanes each can fill a 16 slot card. That's what this is. Yeah. This, this is four m dot two slots. So yeah, um, of PCIe five, uh, yeah. So yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of people who use these kind of things.

I don't think normal people use these, I think it is more for nerds like us who need a lot of storage and things like that. Uh, yeah. Genuine question. How about video capture cards that care people? There are like one lane these days. Yeah. Yeah. Right. There's even, even, I want to say even that Elgato, uh, that what the, the, the ones that are like four, this is by four slot. Yeah. Four, four ports. If I saw her by one, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're like, they'll use by four, but they really only need by one. Starting with audio cards, uh, you know, the, the small minority that are left. Uh, so network, network stuff can, can use more than four lanes, but it's not, you, you don't, you're fine. Yeah. Yeah. It would take extreme network and extreme storage is the real true answer to this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, um, yeah. Other than real weird edge cases, the Thunderbolt, what about Thunderbolt?

If you have a, if you have a Thunderbolt five board, do you have to have a, um, do you eat a slot with that or is that just have a weird port on the back of the motherboard? It has a port. Okay. Yeah. So, because for a while, they're your Thunder, like my assos, my, like X, what, what was X 890 or whatever the 9900K has a daughter card that's the Thunderbolt card, but I think it's a by one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it might be standing on the concentric part of your story. It looks like a lot. Yeah. We do, but cd not share that after we got it, so, um, we? So we had to be careful with judgements, we had to be rätt, Ibagas, we had to be goo- thi facto sure. Fug Plate that had to be dedated, that was ten. It's not consistent to even handle this, we had to where he would go and confirm this he would be and say relationship is still misbehave.

People who have ideas but you mean it says you don't, you need to cast a lawsuit on your health minister and have a withstand, because you need not have one causes of this kind of a real strengthening mindset. And so what might you think will impress us if you put a lawsuit for your system, to follow up, they were talking about a TDP stuff, which we didn't not get into because the 9800 X3 definitely, I have a video I'm working on right now where I'm putting it through

its paces on a really low profile air cooler. And the 7800 X3D does not hit TDP. It is not hitting the max even under that scenario at stock. The 9800 X3D does. So it's definitely using more power, it is definitely using more of the juice, especially compared to a 9700X, which in the video I tested it at both the 65 watt, which is the default, but also then the overclocked, or not overclocked, the optional 105 watt in the BIOS. So I tested it

both and it definitely made a big impact. So yeah, I do wonder that does in my mind mean that a 9950 X3D is definitely probably going to juice harder than a 7950 X3D, if that makes sense. I also wonder if the upside down Vcash is going to make a difference on the dual die, dual CCD chips. Because like if it was that, hey fast slow fast fast, no cash, slow,

lots of cash. Like if it was that that was making the dual CCD chips not make sense, or if it was, hey, it doesn't make you just don't need that many cores with the fast cash that made sense. So we'll see. Yeah. I mean, it's going to come if that does happen, it's going to cost at least $100 more than the 79. It's going to be real expensive. Yeah. But either way, I am bracing myself for whatever that 9950 X3D comes at it. I'm sure, I'm

sure the, it's going to eat up more juice and require more cooling. I bet it's going to be 79. I bet it's $50. $50 flat. That's that's that's how they get the big dub is they make a $50. The best CPU can possibly buy it's only $50 for $50. $50. I think if I was in charge, that's what I would do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That's it. It's good. Hey, you want a real fast GPU? Yeah. Look, remember when you, when the Voodoo 2 came out,

that thing was $299 and it was the fastest GPU. Goodbye. Good times. 200 bucks. Yeah. Done. Let's see. Is a comment not a question from friend of the show coffee gave us $6.99 Canadian dollars. Thank you so much. What's frustrating about the RTX 4090 is that it offers good price to performance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does, but it doesn't matter if you can't afford it. If you care about noise, if you care about noise, the best thing you can do

is buy a 49. You lock your frame rate to 60 hertz and the fans are never going to spend up when you play your video games or 40 or 40. Big up our bet. I love the 4090. What's frustrating to me about it is in past generations, like, value, bang for buck, it got worse the higher up the skill that you went. If you bought a 3080, then spending more on a 3090 wouldn't make sense visibly. But if you want that last 5 to 10% of frames,

that's what you had to spend you had to spend the extra 20%. For the 40 series generation, Nvidia launched the 4090 and like set that as a base for the value for all the rest of it. If you look at the vanilla non super parts and look at the performance it got versus the 4090, it matches up almost perfectly. Like the 4080 is 70% of it or whatever. And the 4060, like in it just screwed up price and we heard that. Yeah. Come more question and good out of here.

Front of the show Crackin has one for Elena. Elena, you ready? Yes. Does Elena think the 9000 X3 DCP's are of value if they are premium priced and out of reach for a poor gamer or must we buy last year's X3D or even two years ago? I would actually like to hear the question again. Does Elena think the 9000 series of X3D CPU's are of value if they are premium priced and out of the reach for poor gamer? It's kind of like what we were just talking about with

the 4090. It's like, oh, hey, really good price for performance, but you still need to spend almost $2,000 together. That's right. So essentially, yeah, so essentially this is because I feel like it's a bit of a trick question. So it really boils down to you. How do you define the word value? Right? Is value something to you where it's just really cheap and you get a ton for that or is

value that you get a lot for the amount that you paid? Right? So if you're somebody who wants that performance, you may find it a very high, like you get a lot of value out of that ship because for the amount that you've spent, you feel like you get so much for it. Right? But if you're somebody and I think for this particular question, because they added that caveat, that for poor gamer, they're basically saying their value, their definition

of value is how can I get a ton for very little money? So is this going to be a good value for me? And then for you specifically in this question, no, that's not good value because you can't afford it. And so therefore you've overspent basically to get something. That's I just a bit of a lawyer kind of answer, I guess. But that's kind of why I asked you twice because I was like, ooh, I feel like I feel like is that secretly Gordon asking me

this question? Gordon would be doing the Bill Clinton voice right now. Just I actually heard that what I was saying. Like how do we define value? It makes a lot of sense. Like if you if you're on a tight budget, like to me, the best value right now is to go get one of those 5700 X 3Ds. 5800 X 3D if you can find it, but you can't. So 5700 X on AM4 with DDR4, you'll be having a rocking game machine for cheap. But when we're talking about

the 9800 X 3D, like it's 25% faster in games to 30% faster in game pack. In cyberpunk, we saw 45% faster than the 285K. And that chip costs like $130 more. So compared to that, like the 9800 X 3Ds is screaming value. It all depends on what you're trying to buy me. Yeah. Yeah. So it also depends how do you find the word poor? Right? Like somebody.

So like we get in or we do get some international, you know, commenters sometimes. And the somebody who's in India, like their budget is completely different than someone who considers them a poor sales a poor gamer in the United States. So again, it's just so relative. That's why that's why when people ask me for advice, I always ask them, what are the specifics to your situation? I need your budget. And you know, you're you're desired, like frame rates

or you know, otherwise what your other goals are. And like how much will go when you have in your budget? Like we'll start there and then we'll go from that. Yeah. Last question here from front of the show, Borya zero. Because this is interesting. Since we're on the verge of another Bitcoin boom, are we actually didn't know? We're already there. Oh, no.

Yeah, I think this speculation. Oh, great. Do you think do you expect GPU mining apocalypse 3.0 to swallow Blackwell and RDNA for or do you think there's been a decoupling between the two? I don't know. My understanding is that the current popular crypto stuff isn't really mindable with GPUs anymore. You have to have specialized A6. Oh, really? Yeah.

No, whether or whether whether Blackwell changes that. I don't know. But but my my understanding is that like you haven't been mining Bitcoin on a GPU effectively in a half a decade almost at this point, right? It's the same for a theory. I'm like the bigger ones are like that. Well, a theory of a move off of proof of work and that changed for them, right? Yep. Yeah. The smaller niche ones are the ones you'd have to worry about

if that one's a comeback big. I personally I'm more worried about just the raw like waifers being allocated to AI chips rather than gamer chips than I am about miners taking gaming graphics cards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder how much how much stock is going to be allocated for for these new these new parts? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The last retro retro

Sean has it right. The last crypto boom and the reason video cards were really hard to get in like 2019, 2020 and into the pandemic was because Ethereum was explicitly made to be GPU friendly for mining after Bitcoin waned. And so yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Adam, before you end the show, we miss one super chat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is back when we were talking about the 9800 X3D back in the days. Friend of the show Eke 44 gave us 89

niche crimes. Thank you very much. Just a comment to say use eight cores and go to the park with the rest and see 3D trees. Oh, 3D trees coming 3D. Yeah. You got them in 3D now. Oh, just like on on your game. 3 dimensions. Yeah. I feel like the Simpson's episode predicted that out on one point. So we might see that eventually. Real talk. During the pandemic, I was staring at screens for so much of like my waking life because I was just wasn't

going outside that I literally had a thought one time when I was looking at my cat. And I was just like, wow, the dynamic range on this is just amazing. Look at the fur rendering. It's perfect. I was like, I need to go outside and touch grass. Like I just put a mask on and just go out and set some grass and damn my brain. My brain's going into some

weird places here. When that cat runs by the 1% lows are really nice and smooth. Look, I loaded up the Nintendo music app and one my daughter and wife were in a store picking something up the day. I started playing the Animal Crossing music and they both had like full on pandemic flashbacks. My daughter still plays Animal Crossing. They were like, no, man, you can't play the Animal Crossing menu music in the car. That is not okay.

Fun times. Speaking of fun times, everyone should go have some fun times. That's what that's what what another thing we say here at the full nerd is that everyone should go have fun time. I can have a Coke flavored Oreo. It's a grass. Oh my God. He's just munched it. He got the whole thing in his mouth, but just no hesitation too. Yeah. Does it taste good after the third try? I bet you wish you had a nice Coke to wash that

down with right now, not a glass of milk or anything. I got to do say that they're a little stale. Yeah. Is that helping? And it's helping. It's a good sign. I got to love that you're still chewing. He's just enjoying it. I'm a busy still going. Wash it around in your mouth. Feel those pops. It's very minimal pops. If you put in your mouth. No, we not here. Oh my God. This one is not right. You get your mouth open. It is pretty impressive.

You get your whole hand in there. And Deidus is right. Adam is an Oreo shell. It's right. If they're here, I will eat them. But more more of a Coke shell. I'm going to tell you, these are the first Oreos in my life that we've ever thrown out. Some that were uneven. Like usually you have a box. You can't do that. You can't just waste food. And they're like three days. They're gone. Over here. Wow. And human garbage can over here.

I got to say despite not loving that Oreo, the box seems pretty empty. Like how much did you test in day one? I want to know. There's four Oreos left. Four. It's a box. I'll be sure. Yeah. Listen. Listen. I mean, come on. Adam's like those guys who spend five thousand hours on the steak game and steam and then give it a negative. Yeah. Yeah. I was playing 3000. I would say I would say they know best. But they are sure, Brad.

They're so sure. Like you got to have a large enough sample size. And I had the sample. Dota 2. This game was great until they nerfed my main guy. No more jungling for me. Thumbs down. 10,000 hours play. And you know what? Ivan has it right. Full alert sponsorship by Oreo 2025. That's our goal. Boom. Oreo Oreo. What a full nerd flavored Oreos. Well, we probably shouldn't have spent how they dump you on their coke.

Oreo. They know. They know. But then also I just ate how many 16 here. Yeah. So I ate some. I ate one. Yeah. Say I want to be sure. So then so you ate 14. Congratulations. Put those Oreos in ice cream. For science. For science. Always be testing. That's what we say here on the full nerd. That wraps it up for this week. Check back next week for this for your fix of PC talk here on the full nerd to listen to us on the ghost. Subscribe to

us on pocket cast Apple podcasts. Spotify YouTube music. Anywhere you can point your art teaser. We're on teaser now. Are we? I don't know. Probably. You know, God, the full nerd teaser. This teaser. Still a thing actually. I don't know. Deezer is still around. We the my podcast is on dessert because somebody asked for it. Oh, no. Oh, no. We're not on. We are not on. That's my bad. Okay. Well, by end of week, we'll be on dessert.

Thanks for making me do more work. I just wanted to get a piece of the kids for the kids for the kids. The kids. Great. The kids are on dessert. These are what? Also all the kids subscribe to us over on a TikTok. You know, we got a full nerd TikTok over there. Check it out. Yeah. All the kids do this too. You know what's behind the scenes? You know what some actually I've been done behind the scenes yet or hot takes mostly just clips from the

show. Okay. But we're going to expand it. It'll be fun. If anyway, if you are on any of those services, including Deezer, I guess in the future, then please leave us a review. Every time you do a new Oreo flavor comes out that I get to try. That's actually the first time you've ever said something that's true. But yes, factually correct. So and I want to. I want to thank the people who joined me on today's episode. That includes the

Laney. Bye, everyone. That also includes Brad. Charcus. Hey, it's me, Adios Internet. Good luck. Good luck also to William Smith. Thank you for having me as always. It's a pleasure to be here. And William. I'm a William. Yeah. It's my middle name. Oh, William is my middle name. Spoiler. And thank you, especially to the foodie himself, Willis Lai, who controls the verticals and horizontals. And thank you, everybody, in the chat. We will see you

later. Alright. Thank you, everyone. Actually, I'm glad that Adam, you are testing Oreos in the lab safely here with people not randomly on show floors off the floor. You know, so don't speak too soon. Gotta keep Adam safe. Oh, thank you, everyone, for tuning in. We'll see you next time. Bye. I just realized Willis, you're not going to be with me. The CES to stop me. I know. I've passed out to Alex. Dan.