Ita Buttrose in the witness box - podcast episode cover

Ita Buttrose in the witness box

Feb 11, 202512 min
--:--
--:--
Download Metacast podcast app
Listen to this episode in Metacast mobile app
Don't just listen to podcasts. Learn from them with transcripts, summaries, and chapters for every episode. Skim, search, and bookmark insights. Learn more

Episode description

Antoinette Lattouf v the ABC in the Federal Court heard from former ABC chair, 83-year-old media doyenne Ita Buttrose. 

Find out more about The Front podcast here. You can read about this story and more on The Australian's website or on The Australian’s app.

This episode of The Front is presented by Claire Harvey, produced by Stephanie Coombes and edited by Jasper Leak. Our team includes Kristen Amiet, Tiffany Dimmack, Josh Burton and Lia Tsamoglou.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Wednesday, February twelve. Donald Trump says Anthony Albanezi is a very fine man, and he's considering an exemption for Australia from his new twenty five percent tariff on steel and aluminium. But the President's Executive Order accuses Australia of disregarding its promise to keep aluminium exports to a reasonable level.

To unpack what that means and what happens now, check out all our reporting and analysis of this big story right now at the Australian dot com dot a U. Former ABC chair Ititebatrose says she didn't want casual ABC presenter Antoinette Lettouf sacked, but she was concerned Latouf was an activist who didn't live up to the ABC's responsibility

to be impartial. On Tuesday, the eighty three year old doyenne of Australian Media locked horns with a barrister for Latouf in the Federal Court where she's suing the ABC for unfair dismissal. Today, the best bits before we begin, a quick note, we've used voice actors throughout this episode to bring you the words spoken in Court. Ota Buttros is one of the grand old ladies of Australian media.

Speaker 2

Sat state your occupation for the Court.

Speaker 3

I'm a journalist.

Speaker 1

Buttrose was the first female editor of an Australian newspaper at the Daily and Sunday Telegraphs. She was editor of Cleo and the Australian Women's Weekly. Cold Chisel wrote a song about her regular TV ads for the stories she was working on. From twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four, Buttros was chair of the ABC and that's why she's in court being cross examined about the National Broadcaster's scandal of the moment, the sacking of casual presenter Antoinette Latouf.

Buttros was cross examined by Council for Latouf Philip Boncado. Buttrose, who's just celebrated her eighty third birthday and was sitting in a wheelchair wearing a Royal blue suit, was giving him nothing.

Speaker 4

Leaving aside dramatic cases, in the ordinary case of things, you would expect if an employee of the ABC had been alleged to have breached a policy that before they were taken off air they were fired, they would get a right of hearing.

Speaker 3

I don't understand the question.

Speaker 4

Your expectation was, whilst you were chair that if an employee of the ABC had been alleged to have breached a policy of the ABC before a disciplinary sanction was imposed on them, your view was that they would be afforded procedural fairness.

Speaker 3

That's a hypothetical question and I can't answer it.

Speaker 4

Want to take a stab at it.

Speaker 1

No, Buttro said when Latouf was on air, she received many emails.

Speaker 3

I observed that the letter writers felt we were not being impartial, and I was concerned about what that would do for the ABC's reputation.

Speaker 4

Did you infer that there was a campaign against miss Latouf?

Speaker 3

No, I didn't. Compared to the complaints we got about our coverage of King Charles the Third's coronation, this was a very small matter.

Speaker 4

Did you infer from them that the complainants wanted Miss Latouf removed from air?

Speaker 3

They wanted to know why she had a program because they didn't perceive her to be impartial. All I cared about was whether we were being in impartial or whether we were not. We'd upset a lot of people.

Speaker 4

Because you would engage someone who was critical of the Israeli government.

Speaker 3

Who was not impartial? What was not.

Speaker 4

Impartial about the point of view she was presenting, Miss Buttros.

Speaker 3

I think in relation to the Israel Gaza conflict, she was an activist.

Speaker 4

That is, she was advocating for the rights of the Palestinian people. Is that your evidence?

Speaker 3

Her view one way or the other was not my concern. My concern was that we were not being impartial.

Speaker 1

Buttro said Managing Director David Anderson had asked her to forward the complaints to ABC Chief Content Officer Chris Oliver Taylor.

Speaker 3

He wanted him to learn the folly of not checking the references of someone that we'd hired.

Speaker 1

Bolcado wanted to know why, Buttro's kept using the same word.

Speaker 4

Has someone told you to continue telling the court your concern was impartiality?

Speaker 3

No, I don't need to be told what I think. That's my own view.

Speaker 4

You don't support the hiring of activists of any cause on the ABC, do you?

Speaker 3

No? I don't.

Speaker 4

Weren't you interested to find out whether Miss Latoufe was in fact a pro Palestinian activist? No, didn't concern you. Nope, you knew she was Lebanese, though didn't you.

Speaker 3

No, I didn't. I didn't know what she was. People's color doesn't really worry me at all.

Speaker 1

Long before the ABC hired her for five days of casual work in December twenty twenty three, Anteinette Leatouf had been loud and clear about the Israel Palestine issue on social media.

Speaker 3

You can and.

Speaker 5

Should condemn both Hummas and Israel's government. Both are extremists. You can and should mourn.

Speaker 1

Civilian deaths visa posts on TikTok from October and November twenty twenty three, before her December shifts on ABC Sydney local radio.

Speaker 5

Not about all sides.

Speaker 3

You can and should know.

Speaker 5

It's a war crime to cut off food, water and electricity to women, babies, and the elderly. Number two pretend to be hearing in paired when all major human rights organizations speak. Allow me to demonstrate apartheid, A party for five that sounds like they're having funn in Gaza, jenocide, Tanna side, Well, that's a new sport, is it.

Speaker 1

In November twenty twenty three, Latoof explained on TikTok why she'd signed a petition calling on journalists to do better for.

Speaker 5

Me as an independent and freelance journalist. Nobody can fire me, and so I will certainly.

Speaker 1

She said she was shocked that one media organization had told journalists who'd signed the petition they couldn't report on the war directly.

Speaker 5

So if they don't want to work with me because I have voiced concerns about all of those things, then honestly fuck them.

Speaker 1

In December twenty twenty three, Latouf, whom the ABC says had been identified as part of their bid to increase the diversity of on air talent, began her five day fill in stint on ABC Radio Sydney. Latoof says she understood the brief of the show to be bright and breezy, cats and Christmas puddings. Three days into her shift, Latouf posted this on Instagram. We've used a voice actor Human

Rights Watch reporting starvation as a tool of war. After that post, Latouf was told she wouldn't need to show up for the final two days of the stint, although she was paid. She took legal action for unfair dismissal, and although the ABC initially denied she had been sacked, the Fair Work Commission found she had in fact been dismissed. Attempts at mediation failed, and the matters wound up in a federal court, where Latouf is seeking redress for unfair

dismissal in the federal court. ABC executives has spent a lot of time trying to explain why that post in December twenty twenty three was a problem. They've said they told Latouf not to post anything controversial or anything relating to the Israel Gaza conflict. Latouf has said her understanding was different. She thought the ABC didn't want her to be partisan or to take a side, but the posting

factual information would be fine. She said the Human Rights Watch story had been reported by the ABC and BBC, and therefore she thought it would be okay.

Speaker 3

I have a whole clutch more complaints. Can't she come down with flu or COVID or a stomach upset? We owe her nothing.

Speaker 1

That's an email sent by Eite Buttrose to managing director David Anderson in December twenty twenty three, when they were debating what should be done with Latouff. Boncado wanted to know if Buttrose was wishing for Latouf to become unwell.

Speaker 3

That was just a face saving idea. I thought it might have been an idea for Antoinette to save face. It's an easy way to save face.

Speaker 4

Can I just say to you, you've given that evidence today because you know the content of that email is appalling.

Speaker 3

You can suggest whatever you like, but it's not true.

Speaker 1

Coming up, the ABC has backflipped on a controversial element of its defense. Antoinete Latouf's complaint says she was unfairly sacked because of either her political views, her race as a Lebanese Arab person of Middle Eastern descent, or a combination of both. Discrimination. In other words, one of the ABC's defenses was that this was untrue and that the question of whether a Lebanese Arab or Middle Eastern race

even existed was a complex, multifaceted question of fact. The ABC said in documents filed with the court, Miss Latouf has led no evidence of any relevant fact that kicked off a fresh stink, especially within the ABC, where about two hundred and fifty employees who are union members demanded the ABC drop the defense. One prominent ABC presenter Jan Fran, who's also of Lebanese descent, said this on her own social media.

Speaker 6

But these lawyers are not just defending some they're defending the ABC, and the ABC is required to be what's called a model litigant because it's a government body, and that means it's expected to behave in exemplary fashion, and arguably.

Speaker 2

Is this exemplary.

Speaker 1

In court on Tuesday, there was a change of heart. Here's what the ABC's lawyer, I Neil sc told the Federal Court, as read by a voice actor.

Speaker 2

We are now instructed as follows. The ABC does not put an issue. That is, it does not dispute or contest that the Lebanese, Middle Eastern or Arab races exist or that Miss Latouf is one or more of those races.

Speaker 1

The ABC put up a statement on its website soon after.

Speaker 7

The ABC recognizes that regrettably this legal argument has caused distress in some sections of the community and our workforce. This was not the ABC's intention. The ABC does, however, deny that any action was taken against Miss Latouf because of her political opinion, race, or national extraction.

Speaker 1

At the end of Buttrose's evidence, Boncado asked if she wanted Latouf fired.

Speaker 4

No, you sought to do that because of her views on Israel. No, I didn't because of her views on Israel's war on Gaza.

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 4

Because she was a pro Palestinian activist.

Speaker 2

No.

Speaker 4

And because she supported the human rights of Palestinians.

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 4

The evidence you have given in respect of those denials is untrue.

Speaker 3

I have told the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Speaker 1

The case continues on Wednesday. You can follow it live plus all the best analysis and news from the world of media any time at the Australian dot com dot a u

Transcript source: Provided by creator in RSS feed: download file
For the best experience, listen in Metacast app for iOS or Android
Open in Metacast