A dark horse in the race for Pope - podcast episode cover

A dark horse in the race for Pope

Apr 28, 202515 min
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Episode description

Pierre Batista Pizzaballa – the keffiyeh-wearing, Hebrew-speaking cardinal in Jerusalem who offered to exchange himself for the hostages – has emerged as a possible successor to Pope Francis ahead of next week’s conclave. 

Find out more about The Front podcast here. You can read about this story and more on The Australian's website or on The Australian’s app.

This episode of The Front is presented by Claire Harvey, produced by Kristen Amiet and edited by Jasper Leak, who also composed our music. Our team includes Lia Tsamoglou, Tiffany Dimmack, Joshua Burton, and Stephanie Coombes.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Tuesday, April twenty nine, twenty twenty five. Dozens of tanks promised to Ukraine by the Australian government have yet to leave the country. They're tied up in red tape and nobody can agree who'll keep the tanks running on the battlefield. David chris A fully forked out two hundred thousand dollars to avoid a court date after a company

where he was sole director collapsed. The Queensland Premier made the compensation payment for alleged insolvent trading in twenty nineteen when he was a senior member of the opposition front bench. Those exclusive stories alive right now at Beaustralian dot com dot au. A papal conclave has to happen in just over a week and the wheeling and dealing is underway. Now. A dark horse has emerged. He's the Pope's representative in Jerusalem.

He speaks Hebrew and where's a kefir? And he offered to go into Gaza as a hostage in exchange for the civilians kidnapped by Hamas Today columnist Angela Shanahan on who are the real contenders in the Conclave. In the Higher Motion of October twenty twenty three, after Harmas snatched more than two hundred hostages from Israel, one voice stood out from the crowd.

Speaker 2

Violence produces just violence.

Speaker 1

Catholic Cardinal Pierre Battista Pizzabala, the Vatican's Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, said take me instead. In response to a question from a reporter. He volunteered to go into Gaza as a hostage in return for Israelis who'd been kidnapped. We've used an Ai voice to read his words.

Speaker 3

If this could bring about the freedom of children, no problem, my absolute willingness.

Speaker 1

Now, Pizzaballa is one of the cardinals about to enter conclave in Rome, the top secret ballot for a new pope, and there's a possibility he could emerge as the Holy Father. It'll be a bit like the movie Conclave starring Ray Fines.

Speaker 3

If there was only certainty and no doubt, there would be no mystery and therefore no need.

Speaker 1

For faith, and maybe with an equally big twist at the end. Don't worry, I won't spoil it for you. But then the last real life conclave had a surprise ending too. Mario Begoglio wasn't on many radars, but when that white smoke rose from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, he became Pope Francis.

Speaker 3

Let us pray that God will grant us a pope who doubts the.

Speaker 1

Catholic Church really knows showbiz. The global fascination, with its ancient rituals and modern dilemmas, is fed by endless tableau of scarlet robes and glorious architecture. Between May six and eleven, the world's most senior Catholics will be locked in a room to decide. This will be the first time most of the cardinals eligible to vote, that is, those younger than eighty, have participated in a papal conclave. That's because almost all of them eighty percent, were appointed by Pope Francis.

His appointees came from all over the world, including Africa and Asia, and of the one hundred and thirty five cardinals convening for the vote, a handful have been labeled Papa Billet front runners.

Speaker 4

Talking about who's going to be the Pope is almost really a waste of time because I think As Jackie Magna pointed out very well in this article that she wrote for Today's paper, everyone who goes in as Papa Bilt comes out a cardinal. That means basically that it's usually a dark horse.

Speaker 1

This is The Australian's columnist Angela Shanahan. Angela's got a hunch that Cardinal Pitzabaala is in with a chance. Do you think he's a genuine contender for the new pope?

Speaker 4

Oh yes, I do. I don't know whether the people who are thinking about the bureaucracy of the church will think he is probably not experienced enough in that part of what the pope does, so he might not be ideal in that sense, but he is definitely ideal in the sense of being an extremely interesting, holy and very scholarly person, a person who actually volunteered to go to Gaza. He's a member of the Friars Minor. In other words,

he's a true Franciscan, and he is a scholar. He's a scholar of Hebrew, and he can also speak modern Hebrew, Arabic Italian of course, because he was originally Italian and English. And I think someone like that has a sense of the more important things that the church needs and some of the stuff that people have been talking about in the media and worrying about, which I really don't think a lot of it is relevant. Actually, personally, I think

that Europe's day is done to the papacy. I was asked before the last concave one that voted Pope prounces In where I thought the Pope would come from, and I said, I thought he would come from South America. And the reason I said that was, but it's not Europe, and it is the New World, but it's also a great stronghold of Catholicism.

Speaker 1

Angelou was right. Pope Francis was from Argentina, and now her other strong contender is Cardinal Luis Antonio Tugley of the Philippines.

Speaker 4

He's very popular and hugely popular in the Philippines. And another thing, and this is something they might have in the front of their mind. There are more baptisms every year in the Philippines than in Italy, France, Germany and Poland combined. The Philippines has been very much infected by Pentecostalism. I'm just a sort of normal, everyday, old fashioned Catholic find it a little bit over the top, but the

Philippinos like it. It fits their temperament. It might be something that Cardinal Tagler could bring to the church and to people who rather liked that form of worship.

Speaker 1

Other contenders are the Hungarian Peter Erdo and three possible candidates from Africa, including Robert Sarah of Guinea, Peter Turkson of Ghana, and Fridele and Bissungu of Congo.

Speaker 4

I doubt very much whether they'll elect an African because the African Church is extremely conservative in its practice. I think it would be really impossible to be frank, One thing that they do know about in Africa is persecution of Christians, particularly by the new Islamic militants in Africa, who have been giving people, particularly in the Congo terrible time, murdering and kidnapping girls and all sorts of things. I think this is another reason why to go back to

I's the Balo. He might actually have something of an advantage over the Europeans. They're all worried about Islamic fundamentalism, but they've never really experienced it.

Speaker 1

What do you think is the biggest issue the new pope will have to confront.

Speaker 4

The persecution of Christianity in the New World, combined with the watering down of Catholic doctrine in the old world. Another thing they're going to have to figure out is what they're going to do about China, because the Church is growing in China.

Speaker 1

Do you think, Angela, that there's a possibility that in the next couple of decades the church will see major doctrinal change changes in its attitude to divorce and to women becoming priests, for example, or no. Do you see the next couple of decades as a period of consolidation and a return to orthodoxy for the church?

Speaker 4

I guess in some ways yes, and in some ways no. Take for example, the whole muddled issue about blessings for couples in irregular relationships. Now, this is just about gay couples, and in fact, the Church will never change its mind on that. You can forget that one. But it might bring in blessings for couples in relationships where one has been divorced, for example, It is actually easier to obtain

an annulment now than it ever used to be. But what's different now is the whole idea about we take into account people's attitude to marriage when they marry when I was a kid, people who got divorced simply could not re marry in the church. That was it out no more. And a lot of people in that situation never went back to church. They never went back to Holy Communion. Now they take into account all sorts of things.

I have a cousin who's actually had an annulment, and they took into consideration the fact that she was stupid and young and went off and married this bloke who basically dumped up them, and they didn't have any children. That also is quite a big factor.

Speaker 1

And what about women.

Speaker 4

And now women are interesting Now the apparently was quite interested in the idea of women deacons, but a lot of the cardinals are against her because they see the next step is into the priesthood. There's no doctrinal reason

why women couldn't be priests, really. But on the other hand, there's an idea very strongly in the Church that women have such a special role as mothers and teachers and guides, that it's a different role from the priest, and it's very strongly in the Catholic worldview, you know.

Speaker 1

And what about priests being allowed to marry?

Speaker 4

That is another one. Now, interestingly, I don't know if you noticed this, but there were priests at the Pope's funeral, and one of whom had a wife. The Eastern Churches have always allowed their priests to marry, but priests in the Eastern Church who marry don't become bishops. Now, there's always been a lot of argument that the ordinary parish priests could become husbands and fathers, and it might be

a good thing. The only I don't know that it would be such a bad thing myself, but I do think it would be difficult, practically quite difficult, because they don't get paid.

Speaker 1

That's a draw.

Speaker 4

Well, it's not a job. The priesthood is a vocation.

Speaker 1

Coming up, is Cardinal Pitzaballah ready to tackle the church's very modern challenges his beatitude. Cardinal Pierre Battista Pitza Bala has served as the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem since twenty twenty. He is the Pope's representative in the Holy Land, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, and Palestine. After the Pope died, Pitza Bala made a video revealing how he met Francis.

Speaker 5

He was in Buenos Aires and I had to go and visit the community of the franciscanc in Buenos Aires. And I was also a little bit nervous because I was blocked in the traffic, so I was late. I was not used to see cardinals, and there was there priests. Was there as a priest and clergyman waiting for us and helped us to park if not very well.

Speaker 2

And this.

Speaker 5

Told me, come down, father, don't worry. I am the cardin and I was waiting for you.

Speaker 1

Pitzbella had only been a cardinal for a matter of weeks when Hamas invaded Israel and when he made that extraordinary offer to exchange places with the hostages. He also visited Gaza in twenty twenty four, and just like Pope Francis, was in regular phone contact with the local priests.

Speaker 2

Fessor Warda to say that what happens seven October is also objectively intolerable, but also what is going on in Gaza, the proportion I don't know of the violence of your assisting is something that goes beyond any understanding.

Speaker 4

I think he's been very open, particularly to the Palestinian Christians who are having a very hard time. I actually interviewed the former patriarch. His name was Foutoi, and he told me that they very much feel under the hammer of the Israeli occupation, but on the anvil of Islamic fundamentalism. They're really stuck in between. There used to be a lot of them, they are about over thirty percent of them were Christian Palestinians. Now there's only about two percent

of them left, and they're stuck in the middle. I think he has a sense of how this reflects a lot of the problems of the Middle East, which is in total turmoil at the moment and doesn't look like coming out of it anytime soon. And I think of all the candidates, he's the one that has the best grasp on what's going on there.

Speaker 1

Angela Shanahan is a columnist for The Australian. You can read the latest about the conclave anytime at the Australian dot com dot au

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