Kielda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This Mattariki is the third time the annual celebration has been an official public holiday. But while this holiday is safe, the future of other public holidays and annually in general
currently sits with Workplace Relations Minister Brook van Velden. Van Velden is currently seeking feedback on suggested changes to the Holidays Act, with a draft proposal due in September, but employee advocates are already sounding the alarm on what the refresh could mean for some workers. To discuss these changes with us as well as her thoughts on public holidays, we're joined now by Minister Brook van Velden, now Minister the Government's seeking fee feedback from businesses on changes to
the Holidays Act. You're set to release a draft in September. How are things tracking with that?
Yeah, things are looking really really good. One of my top priorities is that we need legislative change in this term of government. I understand many successive Ministers of Workplace Relations have tried and failed to get a Holidays Act change across the line and I'd love to make it easier for businesses and workers to pay out the right entitlements and for those workers to know that they are getting paid the right amounts. So that's top priority for me.
We're on track to get this out in September, and it'll be targeted consultation because it's a very technical law. But I very much look forward to all of the feedback that comes back to let us know if we're on the right track to make it simpler. The last thing I want is a new law change that's even more complex.
It is kind of one that would be difficult to explain to someone on the street right because it's a lot of backroom situation in terms of payroll and things like that that perhaps employees don't exactly.
See totally absolutely look for most people, they'll assume that their business or their manager is getting it right. They might get their pay slip every fortnight or every month, and it tells them how much they're earning that week, how much they may have in holidays pay coming up, or you know, what their sick leaving titlements might still be. By and large, most people are doing a very good job.
But because the law is so complicated and so complex even some of our largest organizations have been getting it wrong. You take, for example, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment.
You know they even got holidays pay wrong. Now, if the law is so complex that even the government department that's supposed to look after this law is getting it wrong, there's serious work that needs to be done, because at the heart of this, I want all workers to know they're going home at the end of the week with the right pay, with the right holidays pay, with the right sick leave, and that businesses have far more time to actually do what they do well, which is their
real job, not figuring out compliance.
In terms of the Holiday Act. I guess employees know what they can see. They can see how much sickleave they can get. The current rules I believe is everyone's entitled to ten days sickly for a year if they've worked with their employer for six months and have worked an average of ten hours a week. So you're proposing actually making sick leave entitlements proportional to the hours someone works at something dubbed I believe pro rating sickly. Why should this be the case?
Do you think, well, this is one of the areas that we've had really strong feedback on, where because the last government increased paid sickly from five days to ten days, some small businesses have been really struggling with this. But also there's a question of fairness where if you've got a worker, for example, who has two part time jobs, they under the law, could be entitled to twenty days
sick leave. And I know this is not a case that happens every single day, but there are a lot of small businesses that have a lot of part time staff members, and so for every single one of these part time staff members, they need to be liable for ten days sickly for each one, even if they might
only be working, you know, two days a week. And so we're opening up that question of is it fair Is it proportionate that somebody who works part time is still entitled to the same leave as someone who works five days a week for forty hours. That's what I'm really interested in getting some feedback on.
Just because you're a part time worker doesn't mean you get crook part time. If you're working twenty hours and you claim a sick day, you only get paid for that half day that you were going to work. It's not like the employer has to pay for the full day, So in that respect, from an hour's perspective, already relevant to how much you work.
Is there a chance that full time workers also will be brought into this and that ten will be reduced to five for everyone.
No, that's not part of my current assessment. But look, everything is on the table when it comes to the Holidays Act. So we'll be putting up the exposure draft, and what I want to make really clear is that doesn't mean that that's what will end up being finalized.
What it means is that we're looking for firstly technical feedback on whether or not it's something that can be implemented by payroll providers and for business, but secondly whether or not it actually makes it simpler for business, or whether we could go further to make it simpler. But at this stage, I'm not opening the conversation on reducing those ten days down.
So I understand the pro writer's sek leave and it's proportional to the hour someone works, But advocates say or are asking, are you actually stealing sick days away from the most disadvantaged people?
Brook No, I completely disagree with that. Look when I've been talking to businesses, they've said, on the whole, they actually want their staff to be well. They want people to be looked after, they want people to turn up to work, and it's an everyone's best interest that you
have a really good working relationship with your staff. You know, if you ask somebody who does suffer from a particular illness and you need more time off, I would highly encourage people to talk with their manager, because managers that I talk to actually want to do the best thing
for their employees. And if you've got, for example, a particular family member that you need to care for, I think it's an everyone's best interest that people are open and upfront about these things so that they can have that flexibility in the business. Because even chatter around water coolers or lunch rooms that I know about, where people say, oh, well, isn't it always annoying that person's always going home early? Or ah, that person, you know, it seems to always
be taking a sick day. If people actually know, you know, that person's caring for someone who might have a disability, and the boss already knows this, I think people would actually have a lot of compassion. But sick days are there for sick days.
While we're talking about Leave and the Holidays Act, we're recording this for Matadiki. Of course, David Seymour once said that public holidays were an example of a fascist state and that we should scrap all but two of the holidays.
You know, people don't want to celebrate Christmas. They don't have to. No, I don't think the government needs to tell people when to have a holiday and when to celebrate things. I certainly don't think that we should be rushing to introduce new public holidays, such as Martin Diqui. We live in a society of people who can make their own choices.
Obviously softened last year to removing the January second public holiday. Does Act still want to see that gone or any other changes to public holidays this year?
I guess you're right that it is an Act party policy to remove a public holiday. However, in this capacity I am a government minister, and when we have three parties in coalition together, not all three parties will end up with everything that they campaigned on or everything that they believe in. That's pretty much the nature of government.
That we form compromise and we have a clear path forward in this coalition government, there is no plans to take back public holidays, so I really actually hope that everybody is able to have some good time with their family on Maturiqui. Or if you're one of these people who might be able to have a few dollars rattling around to go out and spend time with their family, please do it in like a local cafe or go out to your local shops, because I know that there
are some small businesses who are actually really struggling. I know families are struggling, but our small businesses have been struggling too, and it would be great if people are able to go out support each other.
Yeah, and with public holidays, I guess while we're on the topic, there's always confusion around what stores are allowed to open on religious holidays or on Anzac Day, what time they're open. I know I never have food in the house when I'm meant to when these things occur compared to other holidays. Would you like to see changes introduced here?
We look personally, I think we should allow for a bit more flexibility. That's not something that this government is looking to change, but it is something that my act Party colleague Cameron Luxton is looking to change. He's got an Easter trading Shop Trading Amendment Bill and I personally support that because there are a lot of businesses who do wish to stay open. There are some families who wish to go out and spend some time out in the sun with their families as well, and I think
our society should allow for that flexibility. But it's not something that the government itself is looking to progress.
Of course, from July first, paid parental leave is being increased, putting more money in the pockets of key we parents and giving them that extra support that can only be a good thing.
Right Totally, I take my hat off to anybody who's got small children, but I personally love the idea that a new mum is able to spend a few weeks at home with her baby, getting used to the new baby, or even grandparents who might be looking after their grandchildren
as well. And what the paid parental leave change is really saying is because wages over the last year have gone up by and large, the changes to paid parental leave have gone up as well, so there'll be more money to help a new mum and a new family pay the bills while they're away from work, and I think that is a good thing that across government we support. Personally, really look forward to day where I'll be one of
these new mums taking some time off. That's not on the cards at the moment, but I think it's something that all New Zealanders support that when people are taking time away from their work, there is a community to help support them.
Of course, it's great for parents, but given the changing landscape now, the universal idea of that nuclear family from the fifties is kind of just getting dimmer and dimmer. Single, childless and without a lot of support is definitely sort of more normal now than it seems to have been in the past.
A lot of our sort of social supports.
Are set up around households and family households with children, but we've got to sort of support more broadly what's happening out there in the economy. Should we start talking about entire tenements for perhaps single and or childless workers as well.
You're suggesting the government pays for people who don't have children to have a form of leave.
I mean, it's a conversation should start it.
Look, I don't think that's where this government is going. It's an interesting concept. I think it's the first time that's been raised with me. Look, I think by and large, if you've got people who are working really hard and they want some time off, once again, I would just encourage you to talk with your employer. You know, there are many instances where your employer might actually have a
flexible working arrangement for you. And actually, when you think about it, there are a lot of people who don't have actual hours baked into contracts, and they might just work knowing that they've got a particular project that they've got to work on, and when that project ends, they then have time and flexibility to find the next project for them, and in the meantime they can take a
few days or weeks or months to themselves. That's more the contract and arrangement, and I think that really works. There's already flexibility to allow people to do that, but I'm certainly not going to advocate for the government just to allow people to take some time away.
Minister, you've been in government for a week while now a what are you most proud of that you've done thus far? And be what are you most excited for?
Well, one of the areas that I'd be possibly the most proud of is being able to find efficiencies within our government departments and agencies. You know, when I was out in the campaign talking to people, everybody I talked to wanted to know that the money that they're giving over in their taxes to government, it's not being wasted. And I've been really clear on all of the elements that I've been working on in government that I'm here to work for New Zealanders and that money actually needs
to lead to better outcomes. And so I feel like I've been doing a really good job within workplace relations and safety as well as DEIA on that front, and I think there's an awful lot of work for us still to go. You know, you think of the Employment Relations Service, the Mediation Service, es, migrant exploitation that might happen in our community. There's a lot of really good
work that goes on. We've got a very efficient team, but I'll keep my eyes and ears on the ground to make sure that we can find even more efficiencies and lead to even better outcomes so that our workers have very good entitlements.
And what are you most looking forward to?
What am I most looking forward to? Look every day I come down here to the beehive. I actually feel really grateful for the position that I'm in, that I'm able to affect real change. And what I'm really looking forward to is getting to the end of this term and looking back and thinking, Wow, yeah, I actually managed to make a very good change where I can see how it would benefit workers in this country. The last thing I'd want is to get to the end of this term and think, what can I put in my
hat there? What can I pin my hat on. I'd like to look back and see that I've created a little bit of a path of legacy.
Thanks for joining us, Minister. That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enziherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and sound engineer Patti Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.