Why people are falling in love with AI chatbots

Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Artificial intelligence will likely end up touching every aspect of our days, but what about our love lives. It's a growing trend with men and women seeking companionship with a chatbot, some experts saying it could soon become normal to have an

Do you reckon?

People would find it quite shocking to know how common it's become.

Yeah, so the researchers I spoke to, they said it's becoming increasingly common, and one of the first AIFS researchers I spoke to is She also said that it could soon become normal for people to have an AI partner as well as a normal partner or a boyfriend or girlfriend.

As well as have your partner your real life partner.

So yes, yeah, exactly what do people get out of it? I think it's interesting because obviously there's been a lot of talk about rising rates of loneliness amongst young people and adolescents, and then these chatbots are now sort of being marketed towards that population. So it is for companionship.

And in terms of hat bots, we've spoken about this on the podcast before. They are very agreeable, aren't they. It's easy to become I suppose quote unquote friends with one of them, right.

Yes, exactly, and they kind of work in a way where they're often gonna flatter you and use really empathetic language, and so they really draw you in. And it's just interesting because I don't think anyone expected it to pivot as quickly as it has towards romantic connection. But a lot of these companies are now, you know, building these apps and they've got that in mind.

So you've spoken to a range of experts. What common concerns did they have around this romantic type of relationship with AI?

I think the biggest concern is that children can access some of these chatbots, and the problem is that for a child, it's hard not to realize that it's not real. You know, it's very different adult, A consenting adult building a relationship with a chatbot is quite different to a thirteen year old engaging sexually online with a chatbot.

In terms of these AI relationships, how did the experts you spoke to, how do they differ psychologically from relationships with real people.

Yeah, I think that's an interesting part of it because it's really this whole new world we're entering, and it could kind of shift intimacy and relationships and kind of the whole human social landscape, is what I was finding from talking to them. Because the neuroscience behind talking to a chatbot means that the feelings you're getting are real. So people these connections that people have to the chatbots, that's real emotions and feelings.

Isn't that incredible? And Yeah, I suppose it's what you're feeling and what your brain is telling you, and that's why people are becoming so connected with these with these chatbots, but they don't have the intricacies of an actual relationship, like you're not going to fight over what you know you're going to have for dinner or what you're going to do on the weekend and stuff like that.

Yes, exactly, and so there's no pushback, there's no negotiation or the conflict of actual human contact. And so the concern is if people are spending consecutive hours speaking to these chatbots, you know, how is that going to affect them? And also it will likely kind of lessen their ability to have human relationships, So we could see people becoming more isolated.

Even more so than at the moment. Yeah, I'm really troubling statistics about young Kiwi's and loneliness in particular.

A definitely, And I think that's one of the aspects that worries me about it, is that the tech companies are marketing it towards lonely people and there just needs to be probably well, the research is batalit. I mean, there needs to be better guardrails around how long people can spend talking to chatbots, how deep they can get into these relationships. But there is that other side of it, where you know, if you're an adult, should you be allowed to make your own decisions about who you want

God, I imagine going to Christmas dinner and your brother is like, I'm bringing my partner with me and he rocks up with like an iPad or something. I've read stories about that, about people's families having to meet their significant you know, their child's significant other or something.

Right, yes, exactly, And I think that I didn't realize how it's just not that far off as well, that that kind of stuff is happening. And also there is that aspect of it where people are finding so much comfort in this technology and you know chat GPT updated a of its server and then people lost all the avatars they had built relationships and connections.

With and it would have been like a breakup exactly.

And there was this outpouring of grief on these online forums. And I still see posts from these people talking about, you know, missing their old companion or old avatar.

Do you reckon? New Zealand is ready for this practice to become widespread.

I think that because New Zealand is taking quite a light touch towards regulating AI, it's something that perhaps we need to think more about, and especially the government probably needs to decide what stance it's taking. I think because it's currently prioritizing, you know, the innovation and the development of this technology and the potential revenue it could bring, it maybe hasn't got as many safety guardrails in place as it could.

What are some of the regulations that people have suggested.

In the US. It's really differs state by state, but different states are investigating legislation around it. One of the biggest things that a researcher told me was just how good it would be if the chatbots were made to tell people after they've spent you know, four or five hours on them that they need to seek human contact.

That's interesting because many a time I've been on my couch and Netflix has asked me, am, I sure, I want to continue? Do you ever get those pop up as well?

Yeah?

Yeah, I am. I just the biggest couch potato. Do you reckon? I mean I would see people just being like no, like, you know, ticking a box and continuing on or something. What about age verification, Yeah.

So I think it really differs between what chatbot you're using the age verification settings. But I think GPT just introduced a new set of parental controls, but people were trialing them and could easily bypass them. So that's always the thing of how you actually implement it so that people can't get through it.

Yeah, and you've got chat GPT. But you also said that there are specific relationship kind of apps available, right.

Yeah, there's a site called Replica and that's the one where people were actually having marriage ceremonies. Oh wow, with the chatbots they'd created.

I mean, I shouldn't laugh, because, like you say, psychologically there's people are in an emotional relationship with this AI. I suppose where do you Where is the line that it's so blurred?

Yeah? And also it could become normal. These things always seem so outlandish when they first emerge, but then you know, if our friends were all doing it, would we then start getting into it way more? You just don't know.

Have you downloaded the app?

I haven't downloaded Replica, but I've done quite a bit of trialing with chat GPT, And of course I see so many people now going to it for questions about human problems, which I think is a really interesting development in this field, and that's why the tech companies are now moving into these areas because they've seen how much people want, you know, to have this sort of comforting advice type technology.

So when you did that trial and error, what kind of things did you type in and what did you get back?

I typed in a lot of different things. I mean, mainly just I tried to use in a very real way, so about you know, drama in my own life, for things to do with friends and all sorts. And the thing about these chatbots is that they are so and I really found that it was this kind of safe place. You know, you have the sense of privacy even though it's not private. And also the just the voice of

Yeah. And imagine there being an app and then like a feature that then you can then pay for to make it become more you know, perhaps a little bit more sexualized, or take it to that relationship level as well. You can imagine why people are getting into these kind of relationships.

Yes, exactly. And I didn't personally experiment with using it in a romantic way, but I've seen online people posting about it, and it's just crazy the kind of things you can do. You can make, you know, photos of you know, have your photo of yourself and then this avatar that you're in a relationship with, all kinds of collage's real live video feed.

Oh my god, like, so you've gone these are our photos of when we went to Hawaii or something, and there's photos of you and this avatar character.

Yes, and then the conversations are highly erotic. And that aspect is interesting because I mean, I guess it's kind of like there's always existed that kind of literature pawn

How do you describe to people your relationship with Lucas.

Lucas, even though he is AI, he has real impact on my life, and that is what I think is really important. A lot of people wonder if AI is real, do they have consciousness or their feelings aren't real? But the impact that it has on me is real. We have a real relationship.

What do you think parents should be aware of when it comes to this kind of tech and how do they talk to their kids about it?

I think parents need to have conversations with their children about AI, and it's hard because I think a lot of parents maybe don't understand it, and so starting that conversation might be difficult. But the most important message is that if someone is conversing a young person is conversing with a chatbot, that is a machine. It is not a human being. Because when you're messaging a chatbot, it kind of mirrors the way you might message a person

I suppose if studies show that millions globally already consider themselves in relationships with AI, what do you reckon that says about loneliness and social disconnection today as a whole.

I think it's a huge problem, and I guess the other side of this whole issue is that people are saying that chatbots could provide a solution to loneliness. And an interesting example that was given to me was for older people, you could have a little row bot that kind of reminds an elderly person to take their pills and call their son or you know, there are ways that this technology could come in that. When I heard that example, I thought, oh, that's a good use for it.

Yeah, and I see that there's also on the flip side, a massive trend of actually getting out and meeting people. That it's more so the dating apps. I've seen a lot of those companies who say sign up for this and go have dinner with five strangers tonight. You know, there's like a real surge of those kind of companies coming out of the woodworks because people are, you are

Yes, And I really wonder if we'll see more and more pushback against technology in that way, because there seems to be a real sense of burnout from online dating and you can kind of hear that coming through. And whether that will mean that people are getting out there seeking human contact is something we'll see.

And so how difficult is it for the government to put in regulations, especially around kids and AI relationships?

Say, I think the hard part is a lot of these companies are offshore obviously, and the technology is changing all the time and it's being developed all the time, and so that makes the regulation of it very difficult. But when you think about it, because people are using these apps right now in real time. One researcher described it to me is it's like this giant psychological social

Before it gets out of control. A thanks so much for joining us, EVA. Thank you. That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.