Cura. I'm Susie Nordquist and for Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Public Servants or what's left of them, have been ordered back to the office in Wellington. The government's call has been welcomed by central city businesses, who say the absence of workers has impacted on their trade. The decline of the city center is one of a number of issues the capital is facing, including soaring costs
from rates and struggling council finances. Wellington mea Tori Farno has not helped things after a week of conflicting statements on selling her car that has caused a distraction. To discuss the state of Wellington and its council today on the front Page, we are joined by Newstalk ZB Wellington host Nick Mills and Wellington editor for the spin off, Joel McManus. Let's start with you, Nick. You own several hospitality businesses in Wellington. Have you noticed a decline in
foot traffic and sales? And over what period?
Oh my gosh, I didn't think it was a comedy show.
Prea COVID we had nine hospitality Outfits as a family business. Currently we're one, two, three, four and hoping to open another one soon. So yeah, no, it's been It's not even the same world that we live in.
Nick. What's it like being in business in Wellington at the moment? For those who might be listening right now, it's.
Been a really horrific time. And I'm not blaming Torri Faro for all of it, of course I'm not. I mean, I'm blaming the world. We got COVID, that was the first thing that stuffed it, and then we've got police that are over zealous and trying to limit late licenses and they're trying to do everything they can to stop
everyone from having a good time. You've got the health boards that are actually objecting to licenses and getting into businesses that they know nothing about and ruining people's lives. So we've got a lot going on in Wellington and in New Zealand, and we've got to fight through it or lie down and get Bulldeauz a day.
What about you, Joel, I've read commentary describing Wellington as a ghost town on Mondays and Fridays? Is that how you see things?
I mean, Neck's absolutely right, Like Wellington's face just a kind of horrendous series of events. One that's not talked about enough is the twenty sixteen earthquake, which is just kind of in the slow rolling disaster.
More and more buildings shutting down, you know.
Obviously, COVID recession, public sector layoffs, there's just less economic activity happening in the capitol. I think some of the commentary is a bit overblown, to be honest, and I think some of it comes from people who have a certain incentive to talk Wellington down. I was out on Saturday when the sun was out, and there's all these beautiful new parklets along Dixon Street and.
It was heaving with people.
So I think a lot of people are kind of just holding on for summer hope, hoping that things will turn around.
People want to get out there and do some more.
But yeah, I mean there's no denying obviously that the city's in a tough spot like many cities.
Joel, can you do be a favor Next time you see anybody in a parklet, can you take a photo of it and send it to me? Because you know I'm in the trade and I'm in the business, and yes, it might might have a few people in a parklant on a beautiful day when there's no wind. But they write songs about Wellington on those days they don't happen that often, so I think the parklets are a complete
waste of time. And I used to own a bar called The Tasting Room which had the biggest parklet in Wellington on it, and I always used to look at it frustratingly, saying it's peeing down with rain and customers a driving pass and they can't park in the car parks because I've got tables and chairs out there with no one's sitting in them.
I think you're being a bit delusional, Nick.
You've just got a whole bunch of extra tables and seats that I see a lot of people in all the time. That surely is a lot cheaper than that bit you paying rent for that facility, and what the.
Trade off is?
Do you know how much two car parks?
Do you know any thirty extra seats? What are you talking about, Joel?
Do you know how much those places pay for those park lips?
Do you know that?
I do?
I can find the number like you give us the number, and can I said to you, I asked you nicely, could you take a photo when you see people in there? Because I don't see people in them, and I am a professional who works in the trade and is on the streets every Friday and Saturdays and sometimes Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays.
I mean, I don't really know how to have this debate when sort of just kind of it's very clear that people use the parklets like I have eyes. Sure I can take some photos. I just think this is a dumb thing to argue about, because this is just reality.
Okay, you've clearly got two very different views there, Joe, who would have an incentive to talk Wellington down?
Look, I mean, I think there's people obviously who don't like some of the current council. You know, there's people who don't like what the city represents politically and the kind of people who work in this city. You know, you actually see the same narrative in the US. You know, the likes of Fox News like to talk down cities that are known for being lefty, progressive cities San Francisco, Chicago, that sort of thing.
I'm just a bit bored of it.
So people with different political views sometimes.
What was introduced as a temporary measure during COVID four years ago, is risks putting pressure on team performance, office culture, and talent development.
And while some swear by the benefits of working from their kitchen table, others admit that routinely leaving the house for work increases their motivation, focus, and productivity. There are good reasons why office workers have traditionally been physically brought together for work.
Moving on, what do you both make of the call to order public servants back into the office. The government's looking at this from a productivity point of view, But is it the right move for the local economy.
I mean, I think in the short term it's going to be a boost, so I think it's kind of undeniable. Having more people in the city and the office is going to mean sales and cafes and after work drinks.
But I kind of don't think a required.
Captured, captured market is a particularly good way to build the economic base of a city. I think the answer is going to have to be make the city a better place to be, make it pleasant for customers to go out, walk the streets, visit bars, make it more walkable, and you know, just do the things that make businesses and people want to be there. I just don't think like requiring this stuff is the answer in the long term.
How do you make it more attractive then.
Things like parklets obviously, pedestrianization, widening the footpaths one thing I'd really like to see some investments. There's a lot
more lighting on awnings. You know, along Courtney Place in Cuba Street, there's these random dark patches and there's little things like that in terms of urban design that make a big difference just in terms of it feeling safer and more pleasant for people to go out and and you know, like you might not think that's a big deal, but you know, it just just plays on people's minds a lot.
And it's spend.
It comes down to how long they want to spend out, how much money they want to spend, how much they want to go out and enjoy the city. Now.
See, I love the idea Suzie of the awnings in front of bars and restaurants. And we've got a little tiny Mexican restaurant that we've asked the council three or four times if we can put a nice little warning. We've got a tiny little outside area we wanted to put an awning over. Yeah, the answer is yes, but you know what it's going to cost us. We've got to apply for a license for the awning. Then we have to pay a rental of nearly four thousand dollars a year to have a little awning.
That looks after two tables.
So if you want to have a beautiful city, and I agree with a lot of what Joel's saying about making the city better, he's got no argument from me on that. But the end of the day, those parklands. If I wanted to put a park in front of my little Mexican restaurant, that'll cost me about seven or eight grand a year. Put the warning on. That's another four ground. This is all money going to the council.
I think I'd rather pay my landlords some money to have it inside and be able to use it all the time.
So are you an affect saying that too much red tape is sort of threatening the vine ability of businesses in Wellington right now?
Absolutely, And but that's not a new problem. Let's not say that this, let's not point that to to the current council. That's been forever, but it does. It's always been a city that's been difficult to get anything to move or change. I mean, as soon as the part the Seventh Party became too big, you know, the police and the council said, oh we better stop doing that.
As soon as the motor car racing which was huge in Wellington and New Zealand, as soon as that got too big, oh let's get rid of that where you know, wow will be the next thing we lose. It's just we are in a city that does not want to make make the big decisions and have the big parties.
I mean I actually agree with Nick a lot there.
You know, there's not much that a council for example, can do to change like the underlying economic conditions. But one thing that you know could be done is is kind of removing that red tape making it easier to get food and drink licenses, some kind of stimulus not stimulus package, but you know, some kind of subsidy to get more awnings or to get more lighting onto the street. I mean, I don't have a particular solution, but what can we do to encourage landlords and business owners just
to put some more lights up around their buildings. Yeah, that's the kind of stuff that can be done fairly cheaply, I mean parklets. You know it's a one off application fee of one hundred and ninety seven dollars and an annual renewal fee of ninety nine dollars. I'm sure it would cost you a lot more to rent that much space if it was inside a building.
This is just fun.
I don't know where you got those figures from, because I'm reading it on the post right now. Well I made an application for one of my businesses for those part. It's a lot more than ninety nine dollars. Oh my god, you know how much it cost just to put the five or six tables outside Hummingbird, well established, well respected dining areas.
It cost a hell of a lot more than that. You've got those figures wrong. Sorry.
It's clearly a tough time for businesses in Wellington right now, and the Public Service Association has come out and blamed the government's public service cuts for the lack of people coming to work. Is that a fair statement?
No, I don't believe so. I think that it's had some effect. Of course, it's had some effect if you lose five thousand people. And you know, I tell the story all the time I walked outside to one of my restaurant, one of the little places the other month now, a couple of months ago, and this forty year old couple, you know, like mid late thirties, early forties, couple, lovely couple,
about to go in the restaurant. And as I was walking out and they recognized me and said hello, I didn't know who they were anyway, but anyway, long story short, they said, we feel embarrassed going out for dinner. And I thought they were talking about going into one, you know, to my restaurant, and they were actually saying that they felt embarrassed that they were going out for dinner because some of their colleagues had lost their job. So there's
a whole snowballing effect and the scare the fright. You know, if you're sitting next to someone and they've just lost their job, what does that do to you?
That makes you think? Wow? And when are my next? Or could I be next?
Gee?
They were good at their job and I might lose my job. There's a whole fear thing in the city, and we've got to get over it. The city is beautiful. This is the best city in the country, no question. I just walked around the block before looking at it. It's a beautiful city and it's been a funky city. We had, you know, we were the coffee city of New Zealand. We know we had the movies that you know, we were it and now we're not.
Okay, you say we have to get over it. What other options are there to help Wellington's economy?
Well, I mean, if you're asking me, I say, this is where Tory could help us. I think Tory is really stuck in the weeds. I reckon that she's surrounded round by people that are telling her how good she is, how her dress what do I call it?
The Empress new clothes.
She looks amazing, she's fantastic, and she's great, and she's doing a great time. And by god, you're changing. You're going to change Wellington forever. Right now, we need to survive. We don't need to change. You know, we don't need this massive golden mile. We don't need it. We need to get what we've got back on track. We need to get moving and then do all the big stuff. And I think that that's where the problem. If you
want to mention Tory far, that's where the problem. She's been surrounded with people that aren't giving you the right advice.
Nick. On top of the city's financial issues, there's also toy Fano. You interviewed her last week, she revealed she'd sold her car.
Do you actually feel what we as well Antonians are feeling right now?
Yeah.
Look, I don't want to downplay the privilege that I have, right so, I am the mayor of the city. I have a house, and I'm very thankful for that. However, I've just sold my car recently to kind of.
Help pay the bills.
A lot of people look at them, were like, oh, to Fano is one hundred and ninety grand.
Does she really need to sell her card?
I mean, did you need to actually sell a card to pay the bills?
No, I actually didn't. It's a shame because it was taken out of context. It was an hour long interview. You get a bit relaxed, I mean, the main as it actually was because it's a walkable city. I don't need a car living in the city center, so you know, so why did you say otherwise? I? Well, no, what I said was, yes, I've sold my car and made some comments. What I do think is that it's been completely blown out of proportion.
What was your reaction to that statement initially and then her changing her story after that.
Well, for someone that's myself personally sold three cars in the last two years, I understand selling cars.
So and my reasons probably were.
Exactly the reason that Tory told us her reasons why I needed some cash so I sold a car. This is where the whole thing's got really out of hilter for me. I just said to her, and I'm doing it tough, and I am doing it tough. So I admit to that, right. Business is tough, and I'm doing it tough, and I'm trying to get through these hard times at hospitalities suffering.
So I said, do you really understand how tough it is?
That's what I said to it, like just exactly the same for Baita what I said, And she said, of course, I understand. My mortgage is doubled. My you know I have to sell my car. I know how hard it is, Nick, And she looked me straight in the eyes, so I just took it. Yeah, we're all on the same boat. And just because she earns one hundred and ninety thousand dollars a year doesn't mean that she might not be
doing it tough. You know, she might have the house on one hundred percent mortgage, she might have other debts she might have, you know, and I'm not getting into that that's her problem. But I definitely believed when she looked me in the eye and said, I know what tough times are like.
You know how I believed her.
Joel, you said that Farno has the political radar of the ter teddy. Just how bad are things looking for her at the moment one year out from the potential re election campaign, and some of these issues were spoken about a bit of a nail in the coffin for that campaign.
I think it's getting close to it. I mean that interview with Nick and then the follow up interview with Jack Team was just a bit of a rolling disaster.
Really.
You know, the Tori Fino just keeps putting her foot on it when she doesn't need to. Whether she sold her car or not, which you know, it sounds like she did. The reason why she sold it that was up to it.
When you're a.
Politician earning one hundred and ninety K and you have won lotto in the past, no one wants to hear about you pretending like you have a normal financial struggle and you know same for when you're a business owner who owns five bars. People don't want to hear that. Why don't want to so why would you even bring that? Was that was the miss because as a politician it just makes you look out of touch and you can't relate to the ordinary financial financial circumstances of ordinary people.
It was poor political management and that's what she's had a tendency to do, say things that get her in trouble for no particular reason, and make some decisions around the council table that seem to have very little political upside and quite a lot of downside.
Really, the last two Wellington mayors only served one term. Do you think Fanno will last past one term?
I think I think she's going to struggle in the re election. It will come down to who else is in the race right now. The only other candidate is Ray Hung, who I don't think is a particularly strong candidate.
But I'm sure that more people will emerge.
The biggest achievements that she can point to from this council term is the district Plan which has allowed a lot more housing and the continued cycleway roll out, but neither of those are actually her projects. It was just
a continuation under her leadership. So I think she's just going to struggle to identify what she can point to that she's done and how Yeah, just like, what is the what is the call to those Green or labor aligned voters who might want to vote for her but are kind of struggling to get over the line.
I think that she's the front runner to win the next election. Now.
I know that's going to ruffle a few feathers. I don't think there's anyone that's you need to be an ex all black or a very respected Wellington businessman to put your businesswoman or businessman, preferably a business woman that puts your name forward to win it. I think she's hot favorite to win it again. I don't think she needs to do anything apart from keep connected to the Green Party to win.
But the one thing that will be a downer for her if.
She expects everybody to use as a cycle way to vote for her, then she won't get in because not too many people use him.
If the two of you could make your way onto council next year, what would you like to see Wellington do to turn its fortunes around.
Starting with you, Nick, I would green light it.
I've got a little tattoo on my risk under my watch that says green light. So I would be like Joel said, and I would just make everything so much easier to do. I've become the yes city of New Zealand. Again, we want to do If Peter Jackson knocks on my door and he wants to do a movie, yes, where do you want to do it? If the Racing Carnival want to do a big racing meeting, Yes, where do you want to do it? I would become the most
yes city in the country. And to go along with the beauty of the country, that's all we need to do. We just need to turn from a no naysay to a yes, yes, yes, please, thank you, let's get on with it.
And what about you, Joel, I'm actually pretty much the same answer. I think the Courtney Precinct project, which was started by a bunch of bar owners, is one of the most promising things we've seen. I think this could be a potential opportunity to have some sort of different by law covering that area. Yeah, just to say yes to make it easier and easier and easier to get food trucks out on the street, to have bars open late, to make it easier to get licenses.
This is what they did with the district plan, and that's why that's so promising.
They went from an incredibly restrictive set of housing rules to an incredibly commissive one. Is it's now, you know, you know, we're not seeing too much development because interest rates are high, but it is. But we are seeing more and we're seeing developers come out of the woodwork and say, hey, I can build an apartment building here now that I would not have been able to otherwise. And we can just kind of take that lesson and apply it to everything.
Nick and Joel, thanks for joining us that set for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at Inzet Herald dot co dot endzet. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sells. Patty Fox is a sound engineer. I'm Susanne or Quist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or where you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.