Kiyota.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a compilation episode of The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's been a huge year for sport here in New Zealand. In one weekend in October, Team New Zealand took to the water in Barcelona and took home the America's Cup for the third time in a row, while the White Ferns won the ICCT twenty Women's World Cup Final. There were major wins across the board for the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns and our latest football team,
Auckland FC. But in this major sporting year, there was perhaps no bigger cause for celebration than the Paris Olympics. Krewe athletes bagged more gold medals at Paris than any other Olympic Games in history, with the likes of Dame Lisa Harrington and Lydia Coe ensuring their place in the history books. To rising stars like Hamish Kerr and Finn Butcher, there were plenty of Kiwi sporting heavyweights in action, with the games over and the four year journey to Los
Angeles already beginning for some. In August, we recapped the highs and lows with News Talk z'b's sports reporter and gold sport commentator Elliott Smith. Elliott, let's start with the highlights. If you had to pick just one Kiwi medal to celebrate, which one would it be?
Well, goodness, Chelsea coming in hot early on. Look, I think for me it'd be the high jump of Hamish Kerr.
I think he.
Overcame some issues in the qualifying and then in the final just brought her out and was so so good in that and the drama that came in that with the jump off and everything like that. You know, New Zealand's medals in the track and field have been few and far between. You think of Valerie Adams in recent times.
Tom Walsh to win a gold medal in something like the high jump I thought was exceptional and just the celebration racing around Star de France, around the turf and celebrating in that manner that one stands out to me. But trying to narrow it down very very difficult. But I thought that was a pretty special one from a New Zealand perspective.
And it's interesting, hey, because they both decided to do the jump off in the end, and I've seen some American reports giving the American competitor some slack for being selfish, whereas in Tokyo didn't they share the medal and then got the same amount of slack.
That's right. I don't think you're going to win.
I think that's always going to be a difficult conversation because some people will go and like in Tokyo, oh, you know, it's not really in the what is in the Olympic spirit, but it isn't to have a shared gold medal. This time around, they didn't share it, and there was a distinct gold distinct silver. I think for me, I thought that was probably the way to go about it. You've come this far, you're going to get the least silver anyway, why not try and split it and go
for the gold. I thought it added extra drama, extra tension. Look, I'm sure what a being special for Hamish Curre if he shared the gold medal, But in some ways sharing the gold almost like sharing a silver. It's not quite as distinct as the two. Whereas with Hamish Kerr, now he knows he is the best high jumper in the world. He's won the Olympic gold medal, he's not sharing it with anyone, and he gets there on his own.
So Dame Lisa Carrington the goat in the boat with eight golds. Now she's now ranked sixteenth of all time, ahead of a Usane Bolt, the only New Zealander in the top one hundred ready.
To race in the women's kayak for if they can't see the finish line, it is gold for New Zealand and the sixth golden moment for Dame Lisa. New Zealand's supposed to decorate an Olympian. Lisa Carrington strikes gold again.
Are we ever going to see another one like her?
I don't know that we will, and we should treasure it for as long as her career lasts. Whether she decides to go again for LA in four years time or decides that that's enough, you wouldn't blame her either way. If he decides that her eight gold medals is enough,
then ghisolutely good on her. But the success that she's had in not only the individual by but what she's brought to the K two and the K four has been immense for New Zealand and I think obviously she's our greatest Olympian, But just looking at the way that she brings others up to her skill level. In the K two and the K four, they wouldn't win without her. She's like that motor right at the front of the boat. She's so metronomic in the way that she gets in
the kayak. Obviously she's got incredible strength, but there's something that she just seems to have a symbiotic relationship with the boat and the water and the paddle that when she gets on the water, she is completely unstoppable. She knows the beats that she has to hit, she knows where she needs to be to win a race, and she pulls along the other person in the boat and the K to the other three in the K four without wanting to diminish their success as well. But she's
so integral to that. So we need to absolutely treasure while at last, and to think that she's been at the top of her game in a number of boats right from London twenty twelve through to this Olympics in twenty twenty four, now at thirty five years of age, through twelve years of success and no one has really got close to her, especially in the individual events, is remarkable. Look, I wouldn't all out going to Los Angeles in four
years time. She doesn't look like she is being close to me in court yet, especially in the individual boats. So hey, we might see her extend on that success as in New Zealander and maybe try and catch some of those others that are at the top of the all timetable.
For the world.
Well, after she did her races, it looked like she could go and do them again.
Yeah, that's it.
She definitely seems to FaZe that she's done the race, and everyone else looks like they're about to vomit on the block once they get out, and she's like fresh as a daisy. It's remarkable that she can do that. And you know, thirty five, she's still young. A lot of the competitors around and the clerking seem to go to.
Their to late thirty.
So it's probably a fifty to fifty call as to whether she competes again, and LA certainly didn't close the door on that necessarily, so I imagine she'll take some time now to figure out whether she does want to go out to LA and where that competitive energy still burns bright. And already what she's done as Schelsea has been remarkable. If she was able to build on that in La it would be quite incredible.
And I can see her hanging around the Olympics as well and really building up the younger generations like she already kind.
Of yeah, that's right.
I mean the competitors or the teammates rather she had in the K two and the K four are still very very young and her experience is invaluable. It was the flag bearer at the closing ceremony along with Finn Butcher, so that is remarkable. I imagine she's got a great future in the sport, whether it's as a coach or a mentor whatever it might be. As I mentioned before, that relationship that she seems to have with the boat is you know, intrinsic, it seems to be in her soul.
But if she can pass down some of those tips, so the next generation there might be another someone who can come close to Lisa Carrington or maybe replicate some of those efforts on the water and the Olympics to come so.
Lydia Coe's gold gives her a complete set of medals, a first for a golfer of any gender at the Olympics, and qualifies her for the LGPA Hall of Fame. Is there anything else for her to do or she basically just clocked a sport at twenty seven.
She's long talked about wanting to retire at the age of thirty. Even back when she was a teenager, she sort of said she's not in golf for life. This isn't going to be everything. She's obviously very very good at it, but has other things that she wants to do once she hits thirty. And I spoke to her before the Olympics and she was still quite set on that,
saying it would be her last Olympic Games. I mean, you can look at her career and go she was absolute prodigy, very very young, switched to being a pro one major's, you know, when she was still very young. Hasn't had a major win in a while in terms of those events every year, but completed the Olympics the best Olympic golfer as it stands in history with the three different medals. Maybe she would like more majors, but
she seems to rise when the Olympics come on. It just seems to be an event that she can play a best golf at. And whether it's just different for the majors where she has had some success, but maybe not as much as she would like. She seems to target the Olympics. And while we don't see her down in New Zealand very long, she's very proud in New Zealand.
It always talks about how proud she is to represent New Zealand on the LPGA to her, but also when you're doing it at the Olympics, wearing the silver fern, you're hearing the national anthem at the end, there's something clearly very special about that. And look, I know she said it's her last Olympics. Maybe she might get her arm twisted. You know, she plays a lot of her golf in America and has residency there as well.
Whether there is a prospect she might.
Play in LA twenty twenty eight at the stage, no, but similar Lisa Carrington wouldn't rule it out.
Co kept her calm and finished in style with a birdie the woman in all black on the final green, enjoying the adulation.
And obviously we can't shout out absolutely everyone, but who else caught your eye?
Oh?
Look, Alexandres was phenomenal and what a way to finish the Olympic Games. With a couple of gold medals. I know her on the track and the Kien and then in the sprint. She is absolutely remarkable what she can do and still so very young. She's got a couple more Olympic cycles left in her and I really love the way that nothing seems to face Alexandrews. She's got an eye for the finish line, or eye for the valodrome.
She just absolutely puts her head.
Down and just peddles her her heart out and at times it doesn't look like as any other competitors out in the valodrome. That's the kind of the way that she races. She's just doing it knowing that if she hits her marks, and similar to Lisa Carrington, if she does what she needs to do, she's confident that she will get the gold medal. Success so'd win in the sprint, in the Kerran, two big events in the track. Cycling
was absolutely special. So for me, that's the other heart of the Games, at least Andrews winning those gold medals.
This Olympics saw the return of surfing, skateboarding and sport climbing and an attempt to bring in breaking or break dancing. On those first three which are now core Olympic sports. Do you think do you think that which.
Audience all three of them still?
To be honest, I think surfing this time felt a little bit isolated.
It was held in Tahiti.
Obviously, you know there's a French connection there, but it just felt like the tyranny of distance was so great between that it just didn't feel connected to the Olympics. So I think that was an issue. I'm still not sure. It's rarely hit its straps in the Olympics yet. Skateboarding I think is worthy being there. I think it's a
real sport that can connect with young people. The Olympics is trying to shed this image of being a little too fuddy duddy, and I think events like skateboarding, you know, they really belong. It connects with the youth and the talent that's on display there is very, very impressive. And I really like the sport climbing. I think that's a
great event. It's rapid, it's fast, seeing the New Zealanders involved there, but just seeing how quickly they can go up the war on the straight speed climbing is five seconds to race up a wall. Those the kind of events the Olympics should be looking at to try and innovate. The are popular events on their own, bring them into the Olympic fold fields, right.
And do you reckon breaking is one and done?
Do you think?
I suspect so? Yeah, I'm not sure that entirely work. Poor old ray gun out of Australia.
She gave it a go, could you imagine?
But this is the Olympics. This isn't about giving you the go, this is about the pinnacle. Yeah, it just felt a little bit out of it. It felt like a character from a crysal lily sketch.
In all honesty, it felt so out of place. It was so it was awful.
Yeah, and look, the memes have been constant in the last couple of days since she competed, and I feel sorry for her to an extent, but it was a little bit silly.
The whole thing, the breakdancing.
I don't think it's going to be back and I don't think it works, So we can just consign that to the Olympic rubbishman.
I think in her.
Ossie Green and Gold trackies we saw a kangaroo hop, the sprinkler headstad and all of it earned her exactly zero points from the judges.
I think justice for Reagun anyway. I think she went out there and she gave it a go. She was the best Australia guy not known for our breakdancing talent.
No, it's not going to be in Brisbane in twenty thirty two, so poor old Reagun it I don't think we'll be competing at a home Olympics.
Kayak cross made its jaboo as well and clinched us a gold medal for Finn Butcher. Are you excited to see that continuing?
Am?
I thought that was one of the highlights of the Games in all honesty. In terms of the new sports, it's almost like the TV shirt gladiators. You know, you've got some tension between the competitors. They're allowed to hit each other within reason, They're allowed to bash each other with the boats. They're all scrambling down this core and not only that, they're going on a whitewater rapid course, so you're trying to beat your competitors at the line.
It felt like it really worked and there was a It was great to see a Kiwi win that, but I thought it was an event that the Olympics kind of needs sometimes you're very much competing in sort of time trials or races in lanes. This is you know, going elbowing each other that you can do pretty much whatever you like within reason. So I thought that was a real success for the clat cross. So I'm excited to see that back in four years time.
The twenty twenty four Olympics saw sporting highs as well as heartbreak for some, but no competition garnered more controversy than the women's boxing. The inclusion of Algeria's Emman Hakliff and Taiwan's lynn U Teng sparked a firestorm. Their involvement was further exacerbated after Italy's Angela Karini called off her match against hercleif after only a few seconds, prompt outrage online from the lanks of Donald Trump, JK. Rowling, Elon Musk,
and our own Winston Peters. We spoke to University of Waikato Professor of Sociology in Sport and Gender, Holly Thorpe about the controversy and about the role of trans women in sport. The misinformation and cruelty directed towards these two boxes, these two women has been immense They've been misgendered and labeled men. Pierce Morgan tweeted a photo of Khalif and said, if this is a biological female, I'm a biological ardvark.
For example. Is this anything other than just outright discrimination coming for a muscular athlete with short hair who doesn't look I suppose like your stereotypical woman.
Yeah, the abuse was wide ranging, and we definitely had a number of very high profile figures from Trump to you know, people with huge followings, making very crude and
humiliating kind of remarks about her gender identity. And I think a lot of people kind of looked at the photos and made decisions themselves, thinking, oh, you know, she's got short hair, a strong jawline, and actually gender's much more complex than what we look like or we have short hair, and so I think a lot of people got kind of caught out by assuming or making assumptions and yeah, like you're saying, unfortunately, this kind of online
abuse was very widespread and it's harmful. This really hurts athletes, but it also hurts the next generation of young athletes, who you know, can see that if you don't perform a particular version of femininity, you might get this kind of level of abuse which is very harmful.
At Tokyo in twenty twenty one, New Zealander Laurel Hubbard competed in the weightlifting as a trans woman. Have sporting codes progressed in the last three years in addressing trans women and those with DSD yes.
I think I mentioned this before. It's very uneven landscape.
So whereas the International Limbic Committee set out this framework really trying to be guided by inclusive understandings of gender, this is only a framework, so they're kind of using this to encourage other international organizations to follow in their lead, but others are not right, and others are doing their own thing, like World Athletics are still using testosterone testing,
and it's yeah. I think what we're seeing is some countries, some sports organizations really trying to move towards more inclusive understandings of gender as it relates to sport, and the drawing upon the research and lots of consultation to do so.
And then we've got other organizations that.
Are still basically using pretty archaic methods of sex testing.
Now I should mention that DSD is an acronym for differences in sex development. So the NHS says it's a rare group of conditions involving genes, hormones, and reproductive organs, including genitals. It means a person's sex development is just different to most other peoples, I suppose. So when it comes to DSD, do we just need to accept that
some people have a biological advantage in sport? Say in the same breath that Lebron James would easily win a game of one on one against a five foot five man.
Oh, I think you know you're right.
I mean, the bodies that we're born into, whether it's our height, whether it's our hand size, whether it's our foot size, will give some people biological advantages. And I wouldn't say that testosterone or the sex body that we're born into is just one part of many aspects that make for strong or lesser than performances. But also you can think about performance, it's also the country that you're born into, the kinds of funding and support that wraps
around an athlete. Do you have funding for a good coach and good facilities and enough money to be able to travel to compete and train elsewhere. So there's so many things that come into performance, and biology is one of them. But biology, it's much more than just sex.
Absolutely, And what I find interesting about this debate as well, this is the Olympics, so this is the world's best of the best. Algeria is going to send their best women's boxer to the Olympics, just like Jamaica sent Usain Bolt to the Olympics. Did the likes of Usain Bolt, for example, have to undergo any kind of testing other than perhaps drug testing to prove why he ran the way that he ran.
My understanding that male athletes have never had to undergo gender verification, And you're right. We look at Michael Phelps for example. You know, huge feet, tall, big hands. I mean, these are biological advantages in swimming, but we're not accusing him of any unfair advantage, right, But yeah, you're right.
These questions are directed at women, powerful, strong woman who challenge particular versions of gender identity. But often it's not all women who are targeted by these types of questioning. It's often non white athletes, black and brown sportswomen in particular are those who, when they are strong, when they are powerful, when they are winning, are often questioned about their gender identities and then have to undergo, you know, these pretty horrific kinds of practices to prove they are
a woman. So I think there's a whole lot of not just gendered issues here, but also of race that's important to address. I think they're going on here in this case as well.
But these are ethical issues which are always complex.
In October, New Zealand's newest A League team, Auckland DEFC, was prepping for its debut against the Brisbane Raw at its home ground, Mount Smart Stadium and in front of a sellout crowd of nearly twenty five thousand spectators. The Black Knight It's defeated the Raw to nil. Since then, the team's gone from strength to strength, continuing their unbeaten run with a two to two draw in their visit
to Melbourne last weekend. Their debut weekend was also one that drew eyes onto another Kiwi making waves in an international sports setting. Liam Lawson, the rising F one star, would make his debut as a full time driver for Red Bull at the US Grand Prix and is now waiting for an official decision on if that will continue
next year. The Front Page caught up with News Talk ZB Sports news director Clay Wilson and senior sports reporter Elliott Smith to talk about these exciting times for Kiwis in sport and whether it's the start of our country caring about something other than international rugby.
They've got a pretty good roster, but sometimes in the A league that doesn't mean very much at all. Sometimes a good roster gets you in mid table, sometimes it gets you towards the top of the and sometimes it gets you right down the bottom. I guess that the proof will be as the season goes on, how they build and how they come together as a team.
They've got the right parts.
They've got a lot of exciting players from both New Zealand, former internationals and current internationals, and also some from abroad as well, so I think it's a pretty good mix. And what it has shown is that there is enough players to go around when you add in some international players, some All Whites returning home that across the all Whites storry a Crosswalkland f C and the Wellington Phoenix, there are enough to have two professional sides in New Zealand.
Whether they can sustain it commercially and fan wise, I think is the big question around it, because football is not the kind of sport in New Zealand that it is abroad. The Wellington Phoenix have had a good backing from their city and from others around the country for some time, but whether it's enough to be commercially sustainable as a fan driven enterprise, I think the jury is
still out. There's going to be a lot of hype around this first game this weekend, around the first derby's, but as the season goes on, will those fans continue to show up? Will they show up again in round twenty, Will they show up again in round one twenty twenty five to twenty six. That's the real question for me whether it can be sustained.
Well, what does the arrival of Auckland FC actually mean for the Wellington Phoenix. Are they happy about having a new local team to compete against?
Not particularly.
I don't see though, because it cuts off their commercial opportunities to an extent as well, that they can't go up to Auckland or go to big businesses and go We're the only football team. If you want to tap into football in this country, you have to go to the Wellington Phoenix and have to be sponsored or part of our sponsorship team, So that cuts off the point of difference to an extent, and now there's two, so that is an issue for them that they've got to
try and figure out. They've had Auckland as a semi base or a second base for a few years now and they've taken games to Eden Park very successfully, got some decent crowds there. They can't really do that anymore. We can't go up to the home base of where another team is based now look at christ Church and other markets to try and extend their reach around there.
So I think they'll enjoy the derby games, but whether they actually enjoy the presence of a second New Zealand team in the A League, I'm not entirely sure.
I think the jury's out for the Phoenix in that one.
I mean it's going to be ultimately a good thing for football in New Zealand right to have more pathways into a professional sporting career. I mean, rugby is our national sport, but I think football is really popular with kids at the moment.
Clay right, well, football quite a long time ago, and Elliott will correct me if I'm wrong here, but at a junior level went past rugby in terms of numbers, not necessarily at a youth or secondary school level, and that may have changed since, but the likes of football and basketball were really boomed in the last ten, fifteen,
twenty years. So those players of course now are coming through to be young adults, teenagers, players that want to perhaps or are talented enough to move into the professional ranks. Of course, if there's only one professional team here, you only have one option. Now they instead of maybe ten spots on a roster for one team, you have twenty or twenty five spots that those talented young New Zealand players have the ability to go into. So yeah, of
course that's a good thing. Whether the Phoenix are so stoked about that because now there's competition for that young talent coming through, and you know, of course that young talent is good for them in a way that you don't pay a lot for it either, so you know, you keep a bit of money in the coffers to
go splash abroad. But definitely for those young players coming through a good thing to have that extra team as a pathway to the next step to Europe, to the United States, to these kind of other markets.
Nont Liam Lawson Clay This has been years in the making, hasn't it. I feel like we've been talking about him returning to Formula one for donkeys' years, so why is now the time frame?
Well, it's been a bit of a I don't know if saga's the right word, but that's sort of how it's felt, especially in the last kind of six to twelve months. Of course, he made that replacement stint last year when Daniel Ricardo got injured, and he did so so well in those five races that the expectation was that he was going to get a full time drive for this year. That of course never eventuated and he
had to step back into that reserve role. But really this is something that Liam Lawson has probably been working towards on the verge of for the last four or five years really. Of course, you know, starting out in his younger years back here, but then went to Europe I think about sixteen or seventeen years old with the backing of a large number of kind of motorsport enthusiasts here in New Zealand and then has worked his way to this point and really in the last kind of
a few months. You know, Formula one is a cutthroat business, as always Generally what happens is that someone has to
not perform for you to perform. And Liam's spoken about this already this week, and Daniel Ricardo was brought into that second seat at Racing Balls, which is the second team for Red Bull there effectively their junior team, to see if he could rediscover that form he had early in his career and get back to that Red Bull main team that of course never eventuated, and they've decided
to bring Liam in. And I think the timing of this is really telling as to what Liam's future looks like next year because they haven't confirmed a deal, but we're going to see over this next six race is what he's going to do, and then they're going to make a decision.
I think off the back of.
That, you know, it's it's the six rounds left of the season, so I've come in at a difficult time. It's going to be a.
Very challenging point obviously.
You know, all these guys have done three quarters of a season now, so I have to try and try and compete with that now at tracks that I haven't done as well, So it's going to be challenging. I've spoken to my parents, I've spoken to everybody that's that's been behind me on this journey, and it's very very special. But we don't have much time to really let this sin can We're going to get straight to work.
Well, there must be so much pressure on him to deliver, given how long he's waited for this, and the fact that he's replacing Daniel Ricardo.
Well, we saw what he could do last year, stepping in at much shorter notice, and he did very well. He clearly is someone who can adapt very quickly. He has the skills, he has the talent. So I think you know he's coming into it this time having already gone through that and shown and proven that he's a driver that I can get into a Formula one car pretty quickly and get up to speed with the rest
of the field. The difference this time, however, is that last time there was really not I mean, he won't agree with this, but the perception was there wasn't that much pressure on him because he was brought in so late notice, he was only in there as an injury replacement. It was like, well, let's see what he does. We're
not really expecting anything of him. But as I've already alluded to, these last six races this time around are really a test case for what Liam's going to be doing next year, and so that there really is pressure on to perform and perform well if he wants to ensure that he a gets a full time drive with Racing Bulls that second team, But there's a lot of talk about whether he might even be in contention for the proper Red Bull team and that seat alongside Max
Versteppan because his pressure on Sergio Pirez, who's the second driver there. So you know, there's a lot of opportunity here for Liam, and of course with that comes pressure. But you know he said multiple times and even again this week that anytime you step into a Formula One car you know it could be your last because it's such a cut throat competition industry. The pressure is there regardless, but definitely this time around different than it was last year.
Both of you have been covering sport for most of your careers. Are you excited by the fact we're able to talk about some different sports. It's not just rugby or sailing anymore. We're actually seeing some excitement and some movement in different fields.
Yeah.
I think that's the way society has kind of gone right. It's allowed more sports to flourish at a junior level and that's now coming through to a senior an elite level. And you know, Elliott might have a slightly different viewpoint. You know, he's obviously our voice of rugby and our rugby commentator and is heavily involved with that. But us in the sports team, you know, we're in the job
because we love sport, not just one sport. So for us to be able to come in on any given day and have one of fifteen twenty twenty five sports to talk about as great and quite often some of the best stores, some of the best interviews, some of the best moments in terms of your job, come in these in these minor sports when you least expect it, So you know, the personalities of people are perhaps a little bit more out there those kinds of things. Yeah,
it's great. It's great to have such variety now.
Yeah, it is, and it certainly wasn't the case.
You know, I think back fifteen twenty years ago, maybe you got a couple of NBA games a week on ESPN. Now you can pretty much watch them all over streaming and then piece heaps on the ESPN, NFL, Major League Baseball, Formula One. You know, used to be buried in the middle of the knife. You didn't get up and watch it, that was your chance. Now you can see highlights and various things. So what it has done is level the
playing field. And that's the challenge for sports like rugby that have had this stranglehold on New Zealand culture for so long is to keep pace with these sports if they want to still be the sport of choice for New.
Zealand going forward.
And I think that's it's a really interesting topic, but it's leveled the playing field in terms of what sports people.
Are interested in.
Also in October, we witnessed the unbelievable on a different kind of field. India suffered its first series defeat at home since twenty twelve, at the hands of none other than New Zealand. The defeat came when India was bowled out for two hundred and forty five by the Black Caps in their chase of three hundred and fifty nine on the third day of the second Test. The Kiwis went on to hand India a historic zero three series
whitewash at home. We spoke to the ends at Herald's online Sports editor Alex Powell on what this could mean for cricket in New Zealand in terms of this series. I mean, you watched it, what do you think the black Caps did differently?
I mean, that's a really difficult question to answer because the game plan that they had was basically the same one they had in Sri Lanka where they got swept turnerl I think the performance of India was re really what's done in India have just imploded in this series. They've not lost a home Test series since twenty twelve, they'd won eighteen consecutive series in the time since then.
They've beaten every nation there apart from Pakistan. And yet it's New Zealand that's pulled their pants down again.
So how historic is this defeat for them?
For India, it's their first Test series lost at home to New Zealand and then conversely it's New Zealand's first away series win in India. I mean, you'd probably have to ask India where it ranks. They don't look at New Zealand in the greater picture and say these guys are our big rivals. They think, you know, Australia and England because that's where cricket is now that those three countries dominate. Then they also probably love beating Pakistan more
than anyone as well. Whether or not this really rankles in history is probably to be seen and for India to.
Answer, is it more historic than for New Zealand to have done this to India?
No?
New Zealand are definitely the biggest story head like, we will look back on this team in ten years and go wow, I can't believe they did that. They had no business winning one test in the series, never won two with one still to play.
What has some of the international coverage being this?
So cricket now as a sport effectively just bends over backwards to praise India. I think the status for every dollar and international cricket ninety odd cents, so it comes from India. The sport is completely fixated on making the most of that audience. So in a lot of ways, the Black Caps have really upset the Apple car by doing this.
And it's not only the men's team making good on that international stage, is it.
No?
Yeah, the woman won the T twenty World Cup.
What last week?
Now?
Sorry, time's a bit blurred now for me because there's been so much other It's been so.
Much cricket to watch, So how historic was that win for the women's.
Historic's probably not the right word, because they did win the full fifty over World Cup in two thousand, but that was in a whole generation of players ago, so much so that this generation was saying how they watched that one and got inspired from it. But I mean, on the whole, it's just a great time to be a keeper cricket fan, isn't it?
Could this bolster cricket's popularity in New Zealand. I feel like we're constantly talking about rugby and its stars, the All Blacks. Do you think the same can be said about cricket and greats?
I think rugby is such a different thing to compare any of this too, because rugby isn't a sport in this cure its entertainment. Whether or not we'll look at the cricketers in the same light as with the rugby players, I don't think so. We've already seen this generation of men's cricketers are the best we'll probably ever have, and they can all still walk down the street mostly without being bombarded. But I mean the effect this is going
to have on kids. There's a phrase that you see in sports, you can't be what you can't see, and now we've had a generation of girls grow up and see their team win the t twenty World.
Cup, World champion.
Susie baits Susie, good morning, Congratulations.
How are you really?
Jess so pumped. We've just sung the team song in the changing room. Yeah, surreal. The tournament has been so great for this group and to be world champions. You know, we've had a couple of cracks, but not recently and just so fas.
Yeah, it's awesome.
We've had a generation of boys come through and see their team just be amazing since what twenty fourteen, they've won the World Test Championship in that time as well. So I think the future really is bright. But now it's up to Newland Cricket to have the right pathways in place for this talent to come through.
While many would have guessed the introduction of a new all blacks coach would have been the biggest shakeup in ends at rugby this year, the biggest test was actually happening behind the scenes. New Zealand Rugby has been at loggerheads with the provincial unions about how to reform governance for the country's most popular sport. In May, those unions voted against proposed reforms by the enzet Are Board, before
an eventual deal was struck in September. Since then, the applications for director roles closed in October, with hopes these will be the last steps before a long awaited resolution to a saga that began more than a year ago. For context on this battle, in April ends It Heralds sportswriter Gregor Pohl gave us the rundown about what has led to these games going on in rugby's board rooms. Gregor, let's go back to August twenty twenty three when the
Pilkington report was delivered. What was the purpose of that report and what did it find?
Well, you've got to go back a wee bit further to get the purpose of the report, which was a non negotiable demand from the Rugby Players Association when talks was silver Lake, the private equity investor, broke down entirely in twenty twenty one, and the players said, look, we're only going to come back to the table and see if we can sort this out on the condition the New Zealand Rugby commission a review into their own governance structure because the RPA was concerned that it wasn't fit
for purpose. Everyone agreed to this, it was non binding. It was however, agreed that New Zealand Rugby would operate in good faith and any of the findings that the Pilkington Review put forward they would look to act upon them wherever they could. So in August twenty twenty three, when the report was finalized, it confirmed what everybody probably already knew, which was that the governance structure and the way that the New Zealand Rugby Board of nine Directors
is appointed is no longer fit for purpose. And the review recommended a best practice way in terms of modernizing the entire rugby landscape if you like, as it pertains to governance, and they put forward a blueprint on what that should look like.
So what did New Zealand Rugby propose as a way of addressing these reforms.
Well, I think they wanted to ignore it for as long as they possibly could. If I'm going to be honest with you, they were never really fully supportive of the idea in my opinion that they wanted to do the review. They felt it was foisted upon them. So when the review was published, New Zealand Rugby's response was kind of vague. It suggested generically that they supported many of the findings of the review. Because the review had given a blueprint in terms of how to restructure and
what to do. Most people assumed that New Zealand Rugby and the provincial unions would agree with that, would look at that and go, yep, there we go. Does everyone agree this is the right thing to do. The report's comprehensive, it's done by credible experts. We all committed to the report. We all contributed to the report, and we agreed that these were the right people. This was the right way
to do it. And now we've got exhaustive findings. So shall we just Robert stampless and get on with it instead. What has happened is we've had an eight month period now where the New Zealand Rugby Union and the provinces separately have tried to reimagine the report and create their own blueprints for a governance structure, and they've sort of worked a little bit with the report. They've amended things
here and there. Both parties have had different ideas about which parts of the report they would like, which part they don't like. They've not been able to agree. I've actually lost count of how many different versions they've both
put forward to one another. And here we are now, instead of what should have been a fairly simple process, we still have the Rugby Union putting forward its ideas and what it wants, and we've got the unions with their own proposal which they have now lodged to hold a special general meeting and they want to hold a vote in six weeks time to prove their own version of the report. I suppose it is the easiest way to put it.
So we've got ended Rugby on one hand and then the provincial unions on the other. What's the view of the unions?
So they are I mean, they're not too dissimilar to the actual Pilkington Review. Their sticking point for them is that they're concerned that if they adopted the review in its entirely that they might end up with a nine person independent board, which they support. They support the idea of full independence, but they're asking at this stage for at least three of the directors who are appointed to have held at least two years experience working on the
board of a provincial rugby union. So they're worried that you might end up with a board of kind of career directors, if you like, people who have financial skills or legal skills or whatever it might be, but not necessarily embedded experience in grassroots rugby. Now there's accounter argument that says, well, the whole proposal here takes care of that. The review actually creates some matrix of skills that that
will need to be included anyway. But the unions are wanting sort of belt and braces on that, and they are also proposing that at least one of these directors identifies as specificus.
There seems to be a lot of back and forth, a lot of hullablue over specifics regarding how this will look like. Does that translate to how big the issue was to begin with or has this snowballed into something that people are getting wound up over.
Yeah. Look, the Pilkington Review said that the current process is not fit for purpose, and you could argue now that the fact that it's taken eight months to actually get not particularly closer to any kind of agreement is indeed evidence that it's not fit for purpose. We are going round and round here. There's an element of self protectionism.
Certainly from the New Zealand Rugby Board. There's one or two who are reluctant to resign their positions as part of this process, so that's holding things up a little bit. From the provincial union perspective, they've become hung up that fee directors must have two years experience. That is a
blockage to an agreement being made on all fronts. But in the end you could make a fairly strong argument to say that while the unions are supportive of change and nine independent directors coming in, they still want to make sure that there's provincial union control in all the various councils and bodies that are going to be appointing directors.
And then again with the demand that three directors have come through Provincial Rugby, it's not actually the volume of change that we would all imagine you would get if you just adopted the Pilkington review.
That's it for this compilation episode of the Front Page. You can read more about the stories featured in this episode and extensive news coverage at ensiherld dot co dot z The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer, along with Paddy Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another compilation episode, taking a look back at some of the year's biggest stories,