Kiota.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. You may have heard something recently about the Epstein files. Nearly six years after the disgraced financier and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein died in prison, he has once again become the center of political controversy in the United States. It's after the Justice Department decided not to release more detailed records from the Epstein investigation, with Attorney General Pam Bondie concluding he
did not leave behind a so called client list. But that hasn't stopped the avalanche of speculation and major MAGA infighting over the apparent lack of transparency. So has that been a major cover up or have we succumbed to another kennedyesque conspiracy and there's actually nothing to see here. Today on the Front Page, Associated Press Washington correspondent Eric Tucker will take us through the latest in the Epstein saga.
First off, Eric, are you able to give us a little bit of background on this Epstein scandal?
Sure so. Jeffrey Epstein was a very wealthy New York financer who had connections with really significant powerful people in the United States, both political figures and celebrities, and he was arrested in twenty nineteen on sex trafficking charges. He was basically accused of having sexual relationships with underage girls
at different properties. And one of the things that I think is really captured the public's attention is that weeks after his arrests, he was found dead in his New York jail cell, and the authorities quickly determined that that
was a suicide. But there have been in the ensuing years all sorts of theories and questions as to whether or not in fact, it was a suicide, and conspiracy theorists sprout around that, and then there have been questions about who exactly his friends were, and who might have traveled with him, and who might have engaged in any kind of similar activity with this miss Epstein.
What was promised earlier this year by the Trump administration, so the.
Justice Department and the FBI had committed to releasing the investigative file from the Epstein case. This is actually something that Donald Trump, who is himself an associate of Jeffrey Epstein, had talked about on the campaign trail, and this was a pledge that we had heard repeatedly from Attorney General
Pam Bondi. In February, she was asked in a Fox News interview whether it was true that she was going to release the quote unquote client list, and she nodded her head and said that was sitting on her desk.
Pleasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.
Well, that really happen.
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the president from all of these agencies.
She has since said that she was referring to the entire Epstein case file as being on her desk, and so the public over the course of several months began to anticipate that there was likely going to be significant revelations that were going to be released by the federal government.
Right now. A lot of names in this case household names in New Zealand. So can you tell me who the main characters are in this case?
So, Pam Bondi is someone who had been the attorney General of the state of Florida. She is a Trump loyalist. She'd actually defended Donald Trump in one of his impeachment cases here in the United States, and she's very close to the president. Cash Battel is somebody who is a sort of bombastic podcast presidence, former federal prosecutor. And Dan Bongino is a former Secret Service agent who came as
a deputy director. Now to understand the anger that's happened in certain conservative circles and supporters of Donald Trump, is important to note what these three people had said in the past prior in some cases to them joining the government. So Hash Battel and Dan Bongino, the two leaders of the FBI, are two people who had openly promoted some of the conspiracy theories that are really driving the narrative. They had openly questioned the idea about whether Jeffrey Epstein
had been in fact murdered instead of committed suicide. They
had talked about a cover up in the government. So these are people who, prior to joining the FBI, had talked about and sort of raised the hope expectation that they were going to release and going to be able to make public all sorts of documents, and they contributed I believe to the public anticipation that perhaps there had been a cover of perhaps there were documents that had not been yet seen, and I think the anger of some of Donald Trump's face has to be sort of recognized against that.
Fact, right, So were there some was where the file was released recently.
So the only thing that was released, the only thing sort of fairly new was a recording of Jeffrey Epstein's jail cell, and the recording was meant to definitively put to rest any suspicion about the circumstance of his death. But even that contained a missing minute that fueled conspiracy theorists that perhaps the JUST perm was still holding on
to something that it should have released. But beyond that, though, the JUST Department, in a two page memo last week that's caused a lot of consternation, said it had concluded that it wasn't going to release any other information because he said the materials that didn't reviewed were pornographic in nature and not fit for public consumption. There was no
public value, so they didn't release anything. And they also said that there was no client list, so that he didn't maintain a list of clients that didn't come upon it. And again, this is something that when you think about the Attorney General Pambondi's earlier comments back in February, she had sort of promoted the idea that such a client list existed. So again we saw lots of anger after that revelation. Right, So we.
Don't know whether there is or isn't a client list. Everyone says that there isn't, but there may be. I mean, what do you reckon, Eric.
So we're still trying to report out exactly what happened. One thing I should note is that FBI and just department investigators, many of them were pulled off of their day jobs during the last several months to review all sorts of records of related to the Epstein case file. So there's no question there's a lot of documentation, There's
a lot of paperwork. There are a lot of documents and records and information that the public is not seeing, separate apart from whatever pornographic information the Attorney General is talking about, and we're not seeing any of that. Now. Is it possible as something could be released later? I suppose that's possible. But President Trump has taken a really
specific stance on this. He has really sort of come out in support of the Justice Department and their decision, and he has shut off questions about Jeffrey Epstein said it's time to move on, time to turn the page. He's thrown his support fully behind Attorney General Bondie, So he's made it clear he's done talking about as has the Attorney General. So clearly the Just Department is really trying to move forward away from this. How big of a blowback is there right now in MAGA world specifically.
It's pretty big. I have to be honest. It's just a red line that it crosses for many people. Jeffrey Epstein is literally the most well known convicted pedophile and modern day history. This is something that's been talked about by many people serving in the administration, myself and many others on the right and the left, of their needing to be transparency of the rich and powerful elites that were in his circle while he was just one of the worst serial abusers of young women.
I see political figures from both sides of the aisle demanding more transparency. That seems a bit unusual on this side of the world. The likes of Marjorie Taylor Green and House Democrats agreeing on something.
Does that happen often?
It does not happen often, not in this polarized climate in Washington at all. And it's sort of hard, you'll explain, you know, It's easier to understand a little bit the perspective of the Trump supporters who believed and sort of had held the expectation that their own Justice Department, the people who they had supported, were going to release this
information they had wanted. I think Democrats now are suspicious as to what is in these files that the Trump White House and the Trump US Department isn't allowing into into the spotlight. You know. One of the things that's worth noting is that this just department had talked a lot of this FBI in particular, had talked a lot
about transparency and accountability. That's been sort of those are buzzwords from cash Hotel and Dan Bung Gino, And so there are people who feel sort of let down that this does not an example of transparency or accountability in terms.
Of releasing the files, Like how hard would it be for them to release them? I understand that there will be sensitive information in but for example, here, you'd ask the government for something and if they don't or can't legally tell you something, then they just black it out. Is that something similar that happens in the US, or if they release something that has to be full transparency.
No, that's an outstanding question, and I think it is certainly the norm, just as you mentioned here in the Justice Department, that people who are not charged, who are not accused of wrongdoing, but whose names might surface an investigation, it is not the custom to release their names into the wild, and so there should presumably be a mechanism to redact it. And again that it's a great question.
We don't know why in this case they made a decision not to release the information with black doubt or redacted, you know, big black lines through them. I suspect though, that that would not have satiated the public desire for more transparency and information to a release records, but not
have given the names. I think part of what's really driving this is there's this sense and the suspicion that there are all sorts of big, powerful names here, and part of that is in fact based in the fact that you know, celebrities and big political figures did in fact fly on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. He was really well
known to people who are, you know, former presidents. But again there's been no public allegation, no suspicion that anybody other than Jeffrey Epstein and another person who was charged a law with him, a former British socialite girlfriend named Glene Maxwell. Well they're the only two have ever been accused of any sexual wrongdoings.
People are saying that the magabase mad at Trump, but is that actually the case or is that kind of I suppose the mainstream media finding something controversial to talk about.
I think that the brunt of the anger is falling on the leaders of the FBI and the Just Department. I do think there's anger at Trump, and sort of confusion as to why Trump, who had promised on the campaign trail to promote the release of this information, suddenly not releasing it. So yeah, there is anger, but I do think we're hearing more anger directed at Cash Betel and Dan Bongino and Pambondi.
Mister resident, I know you've urged people to move on, but I'm curious, why do you think your supporters in particular have been so interested in the Epstein story and so upset about how it's been handled.
Do you think that is why they would be so interested? And he's dead for a long time. He was never a big factor in terms of life. I don't understand what the interest or what the fascination is. I really don't have the credible information has been given. Don't forget we went through years of the follow which hunted all of the different things, the Steele dossier, which was all faked. All that information is made. But I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epste case would be of interest to anybody.
It's pretty boring stuff.
Do you think that this will have a lasting effect on Trump's legacy? I suppose, But he is quite quick to sweep things under the carpet, isn't he.
It's hard to say, you know, the news cycle in
the United States moves very quickly these days. I think there's no question that the Epstein story has had staying power, though it's captured the public's attention for years in some ways, and this is sort of an example of what has happened when people who have promoted kind of frankly conspiracy theories and uncorroborated thoughts prior to arrival, and government are now suddenly in the positions of power where they can deliver on those pledges to you know, dismantle the deep
state or unlock the secrets of the deep state, And so that anger has sort of built up in surfaced, and the story has had legs.
I suppose it has all of the makings of a really good conspiracy theory, doesn't it. It's got famous names, it's got you know, as soon as all those flight logs came out, people were searching the Internet for photos of them at parties. And it's got all of that. It's got the secrecy, it's got the mysteriousness. And like you said as well, those people who were pushing that
conspiracy theory now actually getting into power. Do you think it's now been a case that they've gotten in to the FBI, I say, and realized that it's not as easy as to release information as one may have thought legally.
That's absolutely true. I think there's there's no question about that. And one of the things that I think we haven't talked about this's worth noting, is that the two leaders of the FBI were very quick, I think, being able to correctly see around the corner. They use different interview appearances, you know, over the course of really frankly weeks to tell people, Hey, I know you may think that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered, but we've seen the video ourselves. He
committed suicide. There's no doubt. And so I think that was their early signal of sort of frankly a recognition that some of the things they had said or sort of foreshadowed or forecasts weren't going to come to pass. But there's no question, as you said, that it's proven difficult for people who are now empowered to make good on some of those pledges.
Absolutely, what should the public expect next?
We're all sort of waiting to see. There was a blow up at the White House last week between Pambondi, the Attorney General, and FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino. He actually was reported to have not come to work on Friday to sort of contemplate his fate, and people close to him said that he was considering resigning. But he's apparently back at work, so we're waiting to see how that shakes out. But obviously this has delta blood of the relationship that he has had with his boss. Pam Bondi.
So that's gonna be one dynamic to watch. There are other people on sort of far right conservative internet personalities and public figures who have posted online without any corroboration. They have spoken to their sources who say the Justice Department is poised to rethink its position and that more information could be disclosed in the coming weeks. We have no indication that's true, though, and the Just Department is preparing to walk to go back on his earlier position.
We have no reason to think that that's true. But it's again anticipated, building anticipation.
It's been six years since Jeffrey Epstein died. Do you reckon this will be the last that we hear about him? Or is this turning into a kind of JFK? Is the moon landing real situation? Are we still going to be talking about this in like five decades time?
Only that Trump administration hopes that this story's over. The Attorney General appear in an unrelated news conference today she want to take any questions about her that I'm not talking about Jeffrey Epstein. President Trump has said we're done talking
about him. Died six years ago, as you mentioned, so you know it's hard to say whether this will have that same kind of staying power, but there's no question that Trump administration is really working hard to turn the page and I don't want to face any more questions about this. Thanks for joining us, Eric, Oh, thank you, great conversation. Appreciate it.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.