Kyota at Chelsea Daniels here, host of the Front Page. We're taking away breakover summer, but to help build the gap, we're re issuing some of our most significant episodes of twenty twenty five on behalf of the Front Page team. Thanks for listening and we look forward to being back with you on January twelfth, twenty twenty six. Just a quick note, this interview with Mark Mitchell was recorded prior
to the Tongedito fire. Kyota, I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the government's promise to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly clear from the get go that his primary goal is to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate. He holds five portfolios, Police correct Actions, Emergency Management and Recovery,
Ethnic communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an MP with so many hats feel about how his government has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page, Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and communities. So, first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable whereabouts are you?
I'm a marrying you Bay Beach, Marrying.
You Bay Beach and whereabouts? Just right on the beach there.
Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach and this is the beach that this is the when I was a kid. This is where I grew up in that surf plub. I don't know if you can see the surf club. Yeah, yeah, that was my surf club. So it's not actually my electric because I ran at a time. I was trying to get back up to my pitch, but I ran out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit down of Marrying You Bay Beach and do the podcast and Chelsea down there.
So Mark, we've seen a skin this year at the top of the police chain.
There's no denying that.
Are you confident the public still has trust in the New Zealand Police.
Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New Zealand Police because without a doubt we have got a world class police force and the size of the organization that we have, there's always going to be the odd rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers are out there every day, you know, with teens of thousands of pocket of actions protecting and supporting their communities,
the commutes that they serve. And I'd just like to say Chelsea that this week I've been to two police awards ceremonies and probably seventy five percent of the awards that I see handed out to police officers that have put themselves in danger saved the lives of members of the public. When you see bad behavior from a police officer, there's no one feels it more deeply than those thousands of both our sworn and non sworn staff that are out there she holding to and the values and ideals
of our New Zealand police. None feels are more deeply than them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values.
Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten if we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the rotten apples nearly got the top police job ally was in contention for the top police job in this country.
Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I acknowledge that. All I'd say is that as the incoming Police Minister, there were quite a few issues that I had to view with and one of them was this case and I'm sorry that I can't talk to the detail on a Chelsea, but it's actually the case although there has been a guilty plea put in that's still before the courts for seniencings. Though I can't talk to the case directly.
That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics.
They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime since June twenty twenty four to May this year. The fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government do more to curb alcohol related crime?
Do you think?
Yeah? I think that. You know, alcohol and drugs have always been a huge degravating factor in terms of the perpetration of violent crime. Education has to continue to be a big part of that. You know. The police are obviously run very effective road safety programs to make our roads safe. You know, we've driven down the rates of
drunk driving significantly. And there's always differently, there's different things that police are looking at doing and providing device Who's justice officials in terms of how we can continue to make change. Is that balance up people's right, the responsible drinkers to have access to alcohol and be able to enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible and public safety.
New Zealand's prison population where is hitting record highs?
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Look, I think any society would agree that we don't want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd love to have everyone that lives in our societies and our communities respect one another and not hurt or perpetrate violent crime against the people in society that are lawabiding. But unfortunately, as long as humans have been roaming this earth,
that hasn't been the case. And so we've been very clear as the end up in government that we are prioritizing public safety that if we have people in our society, in our communities that don't want to stick to the laws, they want to hurt people, then you know they are going to end up and they keep assisted in that sort of behavior, then they are going to end up in prison. And our correction is still things because we want law of bodies to feel safe.
Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on crime is actually working.
Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that we sent into a rejuction and victimizations. We've already met that, in fact exceeded that. And of course you'd have to look at our response as a government, which includes increased We've made sentencing much toper. We have reduced the discounts that were allowed from you know, you've seen discounts of
seventy eighty percent. We get that at forty percent. And like I said, we've just as an incoming government, we have and as the three parties as a coalition, as a coalition government, have been very clear that we are prioritizing public safety.
What if it's working too well.
I mean, we've already hit the population estimates within about ten nine hundred behind bars. Will there be more money in the kiddy next year to address how many people are actually going to prison?
Yes, so as of yesterday it is about ten eight hundred in the prison muster and directions to an outstanding job that is literally a daily event. And to make sure that you know that we're that everyone is in the right place and that we're dealing with capacity and riches, doing outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to invest into public safety? Absolutely, because although there is a cost, of course in incarcerating people and having them in the
correction system. There is a much greater human cost and even economic costs to have them out in society, creating with victims and the have it that they create, and the trail of tears that are often sitting behind that behavior and that from offending.
Well, critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does not actually reduce reoffending rates.
How would you respond to.
That, Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending rates is when those offenders genuinely want to change. They genuinely want to embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want to embrace and see what opportunity just apport for them in this country. They genuinely want to embrace the training that is offered and the support that's offered them to
come back and reintegrate with society in a positive way. Ultimately, that is how your drive changes, each individual wanting to make those changes in their lives and not wanting to make bad decisions and make all the excuses for those bad decisions. All that we can do is a country in the state is provide them with the mechanism to be able to do that. And I know that we've
got a big focus. In fact, we put seventy million dollars additional money into rehabilitation programs in our correction services so that we give them the ability of the best fighting charts and when they do come out, they do make good decisions. But ultimately, Chelsea, it comes to under personal responsibility. It comes down to each one of those individuals wanting to make change and until they do, until
they actually want to make change. In my view and my opinion and my experience, you can throw all the goodwill, all the programs and all the investment you want at those people. They will not change until they want to.
As I said before, gangs are not nice people. Minister man Sure, Minister Goldsmith and I campaign on cracking down on gangs and making their life as uncomfortable as possible, and that is exactly why we have passed the laws.
We have to ban all gang patches and insignia in public places to empower the police to stop criminal gangs from associating and communicating with each other, enabling the courts to issue non consulting orders to gang members, and we're ensuring that greater weight as given to gang membership at sentencing as well, enabling the courts to enact even more severe punishments.
I remember when you first became police minister, you actually offered up you know, you were offering up people your personal phone number to see you know, if you do want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you. Has anyone taken you up on that offer?
No, I haven't had any. Yes, you're right that I have headed out my number two gang members that have indicated to me that they do want to lead change, they do want to make change, especially those gang members with families. So that we've because you know, the most important thing we can do is break that into generational gang membership. The impacts so negatively on the children that are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of course someone stand by always to help those that genuinely
want to make change, especially those with children. But the flip side of it is is policemenner. So I've also been very clear that to help affect that change, if we have to make it very difficult to be a game member in New Zealan, to be part of organized crime, to be part of a group that inflicts a massive disproportionate with them out of palm on our communities. We're going to continue to do that as well, and the police are being very effective of doing that.
How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going.
It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback. I've just come from a public meeting right now where
the feedback and the public's been extremely positive. And the frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers so they can reassert themselves and the public can see that our police are controlling the streets and not be in that awful position that we were three years ago where the gangs we're we're controlling the streets where they're coming out and taking over the public places, intimidating them from the public, taking over our provincial towns where they
were shutting down public rights in the public at pittstonchol You haven't seen here that in the last two years because the police have been so effective and putting together gain disruption units and making sure that they're proactive and using the new gang legislation. You know, it's a good thing that people don't see gag pictures around anymore because they're quite silly, designed to scier and in terminates people.
So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that you probably haven't been asked about as often as your your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose.
But in that capacity you condemned.
The Destiny Church march against foreign religions that was back in June. It's pretty bone chilling to see such a display in New Zealand and on our streets here. Do you think what's happening overseas? And I'm thinking of those images of you know, Nazis walking down streets in Melbourne, for example. Do you think that's spilling over slowly to New Zealand and are you worried?
Well, I'm working really hard as Minister of Ethnic Community to fortify itself as a company. And we've got you know, we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders in every single one of our ethnic communities and our faith and religious leaders that completely bind to the fact that we should always protect what is so fundamentally important to democracy, and that is the freedom protest and the freedom of speech. But we can do that in a
peaceful and tolerant way. And a big part of what I've been doing is Minister of Ethnic Communities. It's working across all of our communities, all of our faith leaders, reinforcing that message around social conhesion, making sure that we don't see that type of violence start to wash up
on our own shores here in New Zealand. Be mindful of the fact that we will see that we've seen so much conflict and the vision around the world at the moment that we've got to work extra hard and making sure that if we have a community in our and how if we have a community in New Zealand that feels unsafe or it's fearful, that we reaped support around them and do what we can to make sure that we deal.
With that as part of this portfolio. And I guess your role as Police Minister as well. Have you received any advice from your Australian counterparts about what the stark rise.
In this kind of thing happening in Victoria?
No, I haven't, but we can all see it and I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out there a month ago with our permissioner for the for the service of the plan. Victorian police officers out there, but you can see it out of the streets, and of course yes I came out and condemned Brian Tommockey and the Destiny persh because they have a right to get out there and the freedom to focus like everyone does. But that turned into really what everyone considered was over violence.
When you start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and stabbing them, that scares people. That is actually frightening, and so they should actually reflect on the way that they are carrying out those protests. So that applies to any group in New Zealand. There's a way to be a out the protest to get your messapacity from without resorting this sort of over violent x and in the ripping and burning the flags and trying to scare people.
There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed. For example, people who you know say you should kill Chelsea Daniels. She's a very bad person and she deserves it. You probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's all right now. That would be wrong and it's a
horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are legitimate restrictions on speech, but what's not a legitimate restriction on speech is saying you can't say that because it's hateful or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings, because as soon as you give someone in society the power to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power.
Do you think there needs to be better laws in place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech and what determines hate speech.
Perhaps because that's a really tricky area, isn't it.
Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the reality of it is is that we must protect the freedom to the freet to a speech in this country because the minute you try to start to unfringe on that, where do you start? When he's gone and we all
have the right to exercise our free speech. Destiny Church chose to exercise their right pre speech in the way that they did, and I chose to exercise my right pre speech by coming out condemning what they did.
What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolios while in governments so far?
Ah, Look, that's a really good question. Look, I'm very proud of the work that we're doing in the way that our police force has responded to our new set of priorities when we came into government. I just think the work they're doing, it's quite still the outstanding, the anecdotal feedback I get from the public, the results that we've seen starting to flow through. You know, I'm just so proud of what they're doing and what they're achieving.
Emergency management. You know, I've had nineteen local states emergencies since I've big Minister. We are making fundamental change in the way that we look at and approach these things. We've had report after report after our national states of emergency highlighting the issues that we need to change. We're doing that. We've got an investment being coming through that back the cabinet. We've got new legislation that will provide us a solid a platform as a country who operates
from corrections. Look, without a doubt, I am so proud of our correction Service. All of our officers that are either in a directions facility or out in the community doing community related corrections work with you know, up to twenty five to thirty thousand people one time. That is such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing with some of the most violent and difficult people that we have in society, and there's a tens of thousands of positive
actions every week. My big focus there is what simply been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer Safety is doing great work. They've launched two products in the last months that two trials that are going that are very effective. Expect to report back on one of those, Sport and Wreck. You know, that's that's a good.
I forgot about that one.
You've got your juggling so many hats, Mark, do you.
Sleep, yes, occasionally, you must be all over the place.
I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky, and I've got a team that's been med the entire two years and and I could not do them them do it without them, And they're they're right behind me the whole time, and they deserve huge recognition. And I've and and great chief executives and and you know, so you know, I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling and it makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to think po lift out there. We've got police, we've got friction,
we've got a gifted community. If yeah, I mean that they're all just they're all fantastic agencies. And you know, I had the privilege of having a front row seats seen the ten TI thousands of positive actions. I get reports every week of the outstanding work that our friction topics is still at mounted in prison a couple of
weeks ago, they saved the life of the prisoner. Like I said, I've been at the recently at the police awards ceremonies, and it's and and and Sadly, the only time that you often hear about brichand to police are any of these is when there's a negative story I'm running in the media, and that's life and I sit that. But but you know what, there's just some they do so much positive stuff for us in the country, and I just think we should be so thankful that the farm that we've got them.
Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or do you even have time to think that far ahead?
No? Not, not really because there is so much going on. They're still we're still doing some major reforms. You know. I think we'll start thinking about the election as we're move into next year. But no, right at the moment, especially with the emergency management I'll be down to South Island for last week, you know, with the response and the recovery is just supported with the response with right in the middle of it.
Thanks for joining us, Mark.
Say thank you, Chelsea, thank you for having me on.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot co dot nz.
The Front Page is produced by Jane Ye.
And Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in to Morrow for another look behind the headlines.