Just a quick note. This interview with Mark Mitchell was recorded prior to the Tongedito fire Kyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the government's promise to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly clear from the get go that his primary goal is to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate. He holds five portfolios Police Corrections, Emergency Management and Recovery,
Ethnic Communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an MP with so many hats feel about how his government has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page, Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and community. So first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable.
Whereabouts are you? I'm a marrying you bay beach.
Marrying your Bay beach and whereabouts? Just right on the beach there.
Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach.
And this is is the beach that this is the when I was a kid, This is.
Where I grew up in that surf club.
I don't know if you can see the surf club yeah, yeah, that was my surf club, so it's not actually my electric because I ran had a tie. I was trying to get back up to my pitch, but I ran out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit down of Marrying your Bay Beach and do the podcast and Chelsea down there.
So Mark, we've seen a scandal this year at the top of the police chain. There's no denying that. Are you confident the public still has trust in the New Zealand Police?
Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New Zealand Police because.
Without a doubt we have got a.
World clast police force, and the size of the organization that we have, there's always going to be the odd rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers are out there every day, you know, with teams of thousands of postive actions, protecting and supporting their communities, the communites.
That they serve.
And I'd just like to say Chelsea that this week I've been to two police Awards ceremonies and probably seventy five percent of the awards that I see handed out to police officers that have put themselves in danger, saved the lives of members of the public. When you see bad behavior from a police officer, there's no one feels it more deeply than those thousands of both our sworn and non sworn staff that are out there actually holding to and you know, the values and ideals of our
New Zealand police. No one feels it more deeply than them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values.
Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten or if we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the rotten apples nearly got the top police job, always in contention for the top police job in this country.
Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I acknowledge that.
All I'd say is that as the incoming police.
Minister, there with quite a few issues that I had to view with and one of them was this case. And I'm sorry that I can't talk to the detail on a Chelsea but it's actually the case. Although there has been a guilty plea put in, that's still before the courts for sentencings, so I can't talk to the case directly.
That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics. They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime. Since June twenty twenty four to May this year, the fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government do more to curb alcohol related crime? Do you think?
Yeah? I think that.
You know, alcohol and drugs have always been a huge aggravating factor in terms of the petration and violent crime. Education has to continue to be a big part of that. You know, the police are obviously run very effective road safety programs to make our roads safe.
You know, we've driven down the rates.
Of trunk driving significantly, and there's always differently, there's different things that police are looking at doing and providing.
Device Who's justice.
Officials in terms of how we can continue to make change? Is that balance other people's right, the responsible drinkers to.
Have access to our coholum and be able.
To enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible and public safety?
New Zealand's prison population you'll be aware as hitting record highs, is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Look, I think any society would agree that we don't want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd love to have everyone that lives in our societies and our communities respect one another and not there or.
Perpetrate violent crime against.
The people in society that are laura by it. But unfortunately, as long as humans have been roaming this earth, that
hasn't been the case. And so we've been very clear as the end couping government that we are prioritizing public safety that if we have people in our society and our communities that don't want to stick to the laws, they want to hurt people, then you know they are going to end up and they keep assisting in that sort of behavior, then they are going to end up in prison in our correction, still, because we want law a body citizens to feel safe.
Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on crime is actually working.
Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that we sent into and reduction and victimizations, we've already met that. In fact, we've exceeded that. And of course you'd have to look at our response as a government, which includes increased we've made sentencing much tougher, we have reduced the discounts that we're allowed from you know, you've seen discounts of seventy eighty percent we get that at forty percent.
And like I said, just as an incoming government, we have and as the three parties as a coalition, as a coalition government have been very clear that we are prioritizing public safety.
What if it's working too well? I mean we've already hit the population estimates within about ten nine hundred behind bars. Will there be more money in the kiddy next year to address how many people are actually going to prison?
Yes, so as of yesterday there is about ten eight hundred in the prison muster and corrections to an outstanding job that is literally a daily event and to make sure that we that everyone is in the right place and that we're dealing with capacity and rich and do an outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to invest into public safety?
Absolutely, because although there was a cost.
Of course incarcerating people and having them in the correction system, there is a much greater human cost and even the economic costs to have them out in society, creating with victims and they have it that they create and the trail of tears that are often sitting behind that behavior and that from offending well.
Critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does not actually reduce reoffending rates. How would you respond to that.
Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending rates is when those offenders.
Genuinely want to change. They genuinely want to.
Embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want to embrace and see what opportunity just for them in this country. They genuinely want to embrace the training that is offered and the support that's offered them to come back and reintegrate with society in a positive way. Ultimately, that is how your drive change is each individual wanting to make those changes in their lives and not wanting to make bad decisions and make allse excuses for those fair decisions.
All that we can do is.
A country, in the state is provide them with the mechanisms be able.
To do that. And I know that we've got a big focus.
In fact, we put seventy million dollars additional money into rehabilitation programs in our correction services so that we give the ability of the best fighting charge and when they do come out, they do make good decision. But ultimately, Chelsea, it comes down to personal responsibility.
It comes down to each one.
Of those individuals wanting to make change, and until they do, until they actually want to make change. In my view and my opinion and my experience, you can throw all the goodwill, all the programs, and all the investment you want at those people.
They will not change until they want to.
As I've said before, gangs are not nice people. Minison Minture, Minister Goldsmith and I campaigned on cracking down on gangs and making their life as uncomfortable as possible, and that
is exactly why we have passed the laws. We have to ban all gang patches and insignia in public places to empower the police to stop criminal gangs from associating and communicating with each other, enabling the courts to issue non consulting orders to gang members, and we're ensuring that greater weight as given to gang membership at sentencing as well, enabling the courts to an act even more severe punishments.
I remember when you first became police minister, you actually offered up you know, you were offering up people your personal phone number to see you know, if you do want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you. Has anyone taken.
You up on that offer?
No? I haven't had any. I guess you're right that I have.
I've headed out my number two gang members that have indicated to me that they do want to lead change, they do want to make change, especially those gang members with families, so that we've because you know, the most important thing we can do is break that into generational gang membership that impacts so negatively on the children that
are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of course I'm on standby always to help those that genuinely want to make change, especially those with children.
But the flip side of it is is policemeness.
So I've also been very clear that to help affect that change, if we have to make it very difficult to be a game member in New Zealan, to be part of organized crime, to be part of a group that inflicts a massive disproportionate with out of palm on our communities. We're going to continue to do that as well, and the police are being very effective of doing that.
How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going.
It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback.
I've just come from a public meeting right now where the feedback and the public's been extremely positive and the frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers so they can reassert themselves and the public can see that our police are controlling the streets and not be in that awful position that we were three years ago
where the gangs. We're controlling the streets where they're coming out and taking over public places and timidating them from the public, taking over our provincial towns where they were shutting down public roads in the public pultn't move Pidston Gusiness School. You haven't seen here that in the last two years because the police have been so effective and putting together gang disruption units and making sure that they're
proactive and using the new gang legislation. You know, it's a good thing that people don't see gang pictures around anymore because they're quite silly designed the skier and interiminates people.
So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that you probably haven't been asked about as often as your your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose, But in that capacity you condemned the Destiny Church march against foreign religions that was back in June. It's pretty bone chilling to see such a display in New Zealand and on our
streets here. Do you think what's happening overseas? And I'm thinking of those images of you know, Nazis walking down streets in Melbourne, for example, Do you think that's spilling over slowly to New Zealand and are you worried?
Well, I've working really hard as Minister if the Community to fortify itself. There's a company and we've got you know, we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders in every single one of our ethnic communities and our faith and religious leaders that completely bind to.
The fact that we should always protect what is so.
Fundamentally important to democracy, and that is the freedom protest and the freedom of speech. But we can do that in a peaceful and tolerant way. And so a big part of what I've been doing as Minister of Communities, it's working across all of our communities, all of our faith leaders, reinforcing that message around social cohesion, making sure that we don't see that type of violence start to wash up on our own shores here in New Zealand.
Be mindful of the fact that we will see that we've seen so much conflict and the vision around the world at the moment that we've got to work extra hard and making sure that if we have a community and if we have a community in New Zealand that feels unsafe or is veehicful, that we rep support around them and do that we can to make sure that we deal with that as part.
Of this portfolio. And I guess your role as Police minister as well, have you received any advice from your Australian counterparts about what the stark rise in this kind of happening in Victoria.
No, I haven't, but we can all see it and I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out there a month ago with our.
Permissioner for the for the service of the plan.
Victorian police officers out there, but you can see it out of the streets.
And of course yes I.
Came out and condemned Brian Tummocky and the Destiny pursh because they have a right to get out there and the freedom to protest like everyone does. But that turned into really what everyone considered was over violence. When you start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and stabbing them that scares people, that is actually frightening, and so they should actually reflect on the way that they are carrying out those protests. And that applies to any group in
New general. There's a way to be able to get out there protests, to get your messapacity from without resorting this sort of over violent acts and the ripping and burning the flags and trying to scare people.
There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed. For example, people who say you should kill Chelsea Daniels. She's a very bad person and she deserves it. You probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's that's my ringtime, all right, that would be wrong and it's
a horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are legitimate restrictions on speech, But what's not a legitimate restriction on speech is saying you can't say that because it's hateful or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings. Because as soon as you give someone in society the power to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power.
Do you think there needs to be better laws in place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech and what determines hate speech, perhaps because that's a really tricky area, isn't it.
Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the reality of it is is.
That we must protect the freedom to the freet of a speech in this country because the minute you try.
To start to unfringe on that, where do you start? Where He's gone?
And we all have the right to exercise our free speech. Destiny Church chose to exercise their right pre speech in the way that they did, and I chose to exercise my right to pre speech by coming out condemning what they did.
What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolio's while in governments so far?
Ah, Look, that's that's a really good question.
Look, I'm very proud of the work that we're doing and the way that our police force has responded to our new set of priorities when we came into government. I just think the work they're doing, it's quite still the outstanding, the anecdotal feedback I get from the public, the results that we've seen starting to float through. You know, I'm just so proud of what they're doing. And what they're achieving emergency men management. You know, I've had nineteen
local States emergency since i'veig Minister. We are making fundamental change in the way that we look at and approach these things.
We've had report after report after.
Our national States Emergency highlighting the issues that we need to change.
We're doing that. We've got an investment being coming through that back to Cabinet.
We've got new legislation that will provide us a solid platform as a country who operates from corrections. Look, without a doubt, I am so proud of our correction Service. All of our officers that are either in a directions facility or out in the community doing community related corrections work.
With you know, up to twenty five to thirty thousand people at any one time.
That is such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing with some of the most violent and difficult people that we have in society, and there's a tens of thousands of positive actions every week. My big focus there is WHAT'SIP. We've been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer of station.
Doing great work.
They've launched two products in the last months that to trials that are going that are very effective.
The expect to report back on one of those sports and wreck. You know, that's that's a.
Good I forgot about that one. You've got your juggling so many hats, Mark, do you sleep, yes, occasionally, so you must be all over the place.
I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky.
And I've got a team that's been med the entire two years and and I could not do them do that, do it without them, And they there right behind me the whole time, and they deserve huge recognition and and and great chief executives and and you know, so you know, I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling, and it makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to think, you've listed out there. We've got police, We've got correction, we've got the community.
It's the Yeah. I mean that they're all just they're all fantastic agencies.
And you know, I have the privilege of having a front row seat seen the ten thousands of positive actions.
I get reports every.
Week of the outstanding work that our friction cops is still is at mounted in prison. A couple of weeks ago they saved the life of the prisoner. Like I said, I've been at the recently at the Police awards ceremonies, and it's and and and Sadly, the only time that you often hear about Richard or Police are any of these is when there's a negative story running in the media.
And that's life and I sit that.
But but you know what, there's just so they do so much positive stuff for us in the country, and I just think we should be so thankful that that we got them.
Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or do you even have time to think that far ahead?
No, not, not really because there was so much going on. They're still we're still doing some major reforms, you know. I think we start thinking about the election as we move into next year. But right at the moment, especially with emergency management. I'll be down to South Orlands for last week, you know, with the response and then the recovery is just supportant with the response with rot in the middle of there.
Thanks for joining us, Mark say, thank you, Chelsea, thank you for having me on.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.