Health system concerns in spotlight after high turnover of senior leaders - podcast episode cover

Health system concerns in spotlight after high turnover of senior leaders

Feb 17, 202520 min
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Episode description

‘Chaos’, ‘overstretched’, ‘a bloodbath’ -- these are just a few descriptions of New Zealand’s health sector in recent days.

It’s as the sector faces its third resignation of its top brass... Director-General of Health Diana Sarfati will finish up Friday – ending her term two years earlier than expected.

Her resignation came soon after Health New Zealand chief executive Margie Apa -- followed by Public Health Director, Nicholas Jones, who quit just days after.

We are constantly being told the health system is in crisis, “on the brink of failure” – spending beyond its budget, waiting times getting longer, suffering from widespread staff shortages.

But, the decades-old question is, how do we fix it?

Today on The Front Page, University of Otago professor of public health, Peter Crampton joins us to give a rundown on our health system.  

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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.

Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Kiota.

Speaker 2

I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Chaos, overstretched, and a blood bath. These are just a few of the descriptions of New Zealand's health sector in recent days.

Speaker 1

It's as the sector faces its third.

Speaker 2

Resignation of its top brass Director General of Health Diana Sarfati, will finish up this Friday, ending her term two years earlier than expected. Her resignation came soon after Health New Zealand Chief Executive Marjie Arper, followed by Public Health Director Nicholas Jones, who quit just a few days later. We're constantly being told the system is in crisis, on the brink of failure, spending beyond its budget, waiting times are

getting longer and suffering from widespread staff shortages. But the decades old question is how do we actually fix it? Today on the front Page, University of Otago Professor of Public Health Peter Crampton joins us to give us a rundown on our health system. So, Peter, it's no surprise that the health system is in crisis. In fact, it feels like we're constantly being told this what kind of challenges is it facing right now.

Speaker 3

Well, the word crisis has been used quite a lot over the last twelve months. It's a word I would use with a great deal of caution. In my professional life. I've been observing this closely for at least thirty years. I don't think I've seen so much pressure and uncertainty in the health system as I see now that there

are new factors led upon old factors. In terms of the stress is being brought to bear in the new zin and health system and also all around the world, I'd say number one as the fact that healthcare gets more complex and more expensive by the day. And in a country such as New Zealand, it's driven by the aging population. We get sicker and we get older, and we're living longer, and we drive the costs of healthcare delivery.

And that means that well, for example, increasingly individuals as they get older have multiple conditions that would need treatment. At the same time, that complexity brings with it increase need for healthcare, professional time, more medicines, more expenditure on expensive medicines, and so on. And that is a real driver. It's a driver of complexity. It's a driver of difficulty, it's a driver of expenditure, and that's no one's fault.

It's not a bad thing. It is a fact. Nevertheless, what it does mean is that there is pressure on a government, on all governments, to deliver in those circumstances where there's a great deal of pressure driving upward expenditure. However, hard governments try that pressure on and it can only be partly addressed through increasing product to video or increasing efficiency. It does, in the end need more expenditure per capita

per person. I would say that in our system we have over the long term, we've underinvested in primary care, by which I mean nurses, doctors, and all those people in the community who look after us when we get on will and that's where the bulk of healthcare is provided, and we've underinvested in that, and that is at the

point of extreme stress right now. And what that means, amongst other things, is that we get sicker, we're not treated early enough, and then we end up in the hospital system, costing the system more and also driving up pressures, stresses, and waiting times in hospitals. So that's in there as an underlying reason. Look, I think there's two more immediate aspects of the health system which need to be commented on.

The first is COVID and post COVID politics. There has been a rapid shift to political populism and that brings with it less trust in so called elites, less trust in science, less trust and experts. And because the health system so reliant on experts and science, and while groups of people who are regarded as being elite has a destabilizing effect in the health system. And not just in New Zealand but all around the world. That this is

a new phenomenon. And of course COVID. Coming back to COVID, it brings with it all the stress is on the country's finances that we know are very very difficult. Again, this isn't about this government or the previous government or any government. It's just countries around the world are experiencing huge stress post COVID. In addition to that, the previous government, the Labor government with Andrew Little as the Minister of Health, initiated a set of major reforms of the health system.

This kicked off under Minister David Clark who initiated a review of the health system. I was on that review panel. We made a number of recommendations to the then government. Some of those recommendations were taken up, others were not. In the event, Minister Little made his own decision to centralize the health system under one organization, to Fatal Order Health New Zealand, and that of course represents what is undoubtedly the largest merger ever in New Zealand's history, bringing

together the twenty district health boards into one organization. And another of other changes were initiated at that point, and then there was a change in government, so the new government inherited this rather complex and difficult set of circumstances. This would have been very difficult for any government. There's no doubt this was a very challenging set of circumstances. And what they've done since then is introduced their own changes.

For example, they scrapped order the Maori Health Authority, which brought expertise into the center of the system. Last year the Board of Health New Zealand to Fatal Order was sacked and replaced with a commissioner, along with several co commissioners, and since then there have been a number of resignations, thinking particularly back to last week where we had three important resignations in the health system, but the government was

not responsible for the challenging circumstances it inherited. But it is of course now in charge and has been for well over a year, and is making its own decisions about how to lead the system.

Speaker 4

I mean, it might be scary to have to respond to the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Health, but nothing is more scary than my own wife holding me to account for the health system. And I love her and respect her, and I'm going to make sure I'll keep it that way because she's holding me to account, which is a different time but type of accountability.

Speaker 2

You mentioned Health end Z Commissioner Lester Levy. He was broad on board last July. He was tasked with solving an estimated one point four billion dollar overspend and then he and then chief executive Marjie Arper have been in charge of a reset, so to speak, so to ensure it's spending within its budget after it was found in July to be spending one hundred and thirty million dollars more than its budget each month.

Speaker 1

How do you think all of this is.

Speaker 2

Going the cutting, the cost cutting, I suppose, I.

Speaker 3

For one, feel unclear about the actual state of healthcare expenditure. Generally there is a single source of authority d data about how much we're spending on health per capita and how that fits into the long term trends. I would say at the moment, I, for one, don't have that clarity. You know, the government says repeatedly that it's spending more on health now than has ever been spent before. There is the expenditure above budget that you've just talked about

with in Fascil order. But as I said, I'm unclear on this point. There was one analysis I read last year from a well respected health economist which looked at the twenty year healthcare expenditure and it went up per capita around four to five percent during the first more or less during the first decade of the century. That

was with the Labor government. That per capita annual increase in expenditure went down to I'm remembering three or four percent under the nine years of the subsequent national government, and then it went back up again slightly to or four plus percent annual per capita increase in expenditure during the last Labor government. And according to that analysis, the twenty twenty four year was the first time in that twenty four year period that the health systems faced an

actual decrease in per capita healthcare expenditure. Now, that was just one analysis. It received some publicity at the time, but incredibly important that we actually know whether or not that's true, because if it is true, it explains so much of the intense stress and pressure within the health system. Because basically the health system which is facing real per capita decrease in expenditure is sort of an unprecedented thing. Not many countries would ever attempt to do that. Now,

government's making claims that that's not the case. Some economists or this one in particular, is making a claim that is the case. I think we need authoritative analysis around that. Coming back to your question about how is it going into fatal Aura, Well, look, I would say three things. Firstly, that fat AURA is a highly stressed, highly disrupted organization at this point in time, there is a great deal of change and uncertainty and that affects probably the vast

majority of people who work within the organization. And remember this is a huge organization. This is a single employer of When I last heard the numbers, it was between eighty and ninety thousand people doing all lots of jobs all the way from the frontline clinical roles through to IT systems and procurement and supply and all the things that are a huge organization like that is responsible for doing so a great deal of disruption in that organization.

How it's going financially, I don't know. Again. I think that we need authoritative financial data being produced at regular intervals so that we can we the public can make judgments on that point. And certainly I've no doubt at all that Commissioner Lester Levy is working extremely hard on this, as are the other co commissioners. That that's I think as much as I can say on how it's going, because this is the story is unfolding in front of us.

Maybe one can take a little bit of a steer from the fact that there are senior resignations in the system, some of which might have been anticipated, others not. The resignation of the Chief Executive of Health New Zealand faceral At Margie Upper, which was two Fridays ago, may have

been anticipated. I certainly wasn't expecting it to happen on that day and that week her term came up for a renewal later on this year, and I was expecting her to step down perhaps at that point, because that had been signaled.

Speaker 1

And what about Diana Saferti's resignation.

Speaker 2

I don't know about you, but where I work, i'd need to give at least four weeks notice, and she finishes up this Friday.

Speaker 3

I think that is unusual, Chelsea. I think that is a very unusual thing. It was an unexpected announcement. She is leaving very abruptly within a week, so no notice bit with those sorts of senior roles. Now we're talking about Professor Diana Safati, who was the Director General of Healthcare. Resignation was announced on Friday, taking effect this sometime this week.

That's very unusual with those senior roles. We expect that a resignation to be announced well well in advance of it taking effect, and their time for the system to respond and an interim person or an acting person to be put in place, and ideally a recruitment process to be god underway. None of that has happened this time, of course, so we don't know what lies behind that, except this is an unusual circumstance. What we do know, of course, is that we have a new Minister of

Health who's come in. The Honorable Sandertti has moved on to other portfolios and we now have the Honorable Simeon Brown in the role of Health Minister. He's brand new to health. Not only is he brand new to the portfolio as Minister of Health, he's also brand new to health. Nothing wrong with that, per se, It's just that we all need to recognize it will take him some time to get his FETA under the desk properly and understand this extremely complex system that he's now responsible for. And

I don't hold him. I don't think he's the author of these resignations necessarily at all. But following his taking on the portfolio of Health, there have been, as I said, a number of very senior people resigning, and maybe with the fullness of time, we'll understand more about the nine amics there.

Speaker 2

Well, if we go back to the system itself, I know that staff shortages have plagued the sector for years now, and this is right across the workforce, from GPS closing their books with nearly forty percent of them actually not taking new patients last year to of course nurses being tempted across the ditch by better pay, packets, added extras,

et cetera. Health New Zealand has released its workforce Plan in December and that outlined how gaps will be filled over the next three years, and the government's already made moves to fund more homegrown doctors and midwives for example.

Speaker 1

Do you think it's doing enough?

Speaker 3

Health workforce probably is the number one or number two, or at least one of the top issues in the health system. And this is again not unique in New Zealand. Health systems all around the world experiencing the same sorts of health workforce pressures that we're experiencing. Is the government doing enough well? I mean, the answer has to be known. I say that was some sympathy for the government, but

the problems are mounting in the health workforce space. I think the government wants to get on top of this. A great deal of good work is being done. Certainly, we don't have solutions to all the problems at the moment at all, by any stretch of the imagination. And I'll come back to point I made earlier about the point you mentioned about general practices and general practitioners and

practice nurses in the community. That is an area of neglect, which is one of the most urgent pressure points in the health system, I would say, and it's not receiving a huge amount of public air time. Is receiving some but not a huge amount. The whole system is reliant on that layer in the health system with GPS practice nurses and or all the others who work in the community keeping people well and out of hospital. The financing situation for GPS is complex and has been neglected for

a long time. Work is underway by to Facial Order Health New Zealand and by the Ministry of Health to fix that, but it's a long time coming, and it's it's an area of really considerable pressure and stress within the system. I fear that these really important strategic or long term issues like health workforce are probably being somewhat neglected right now as the system goes through its own processes of change.

Speaker 5

Official information reveals that in the first six months of last year, more than three hundred thousand patients around New Zealand who turned up in an imminently or potentially life threatening condition were not seen in a clinically appropriate time.

Speaker 6

Is that a concern it's really concerning data and as we have to do better. It is showing a system under intense pressure, and it's showing a whole system under pressure.

Speaker 5

Is it showing a system failing by.

Speaker 6

The numbers you're telling me, it is showing a system that is failing.

Speaker 4

Well.

Speaker 2

Something that does get a lot of airtime is ed waight times. Right, we haven't even gotten to that yet. We're constantly hearing horror stories about people waiting upwards of eight ten hours for care. More than three hundred thousand patients with time critical conditions were not seen within the recommended time frames during the first six months of last year. And this is where there's a bottleneck, isn't it. It's like all the other areas of the health system when they underperform.

Speaker 1

This is what we see. This is what we get.

Speaker 2

The fact that all of the country's eds are failing to assess patients with eminently or potentially life threatening conditions on time. That's a massive problem, isn't it.

Speaker 3

It is a problem, and it speaks to failure elsewhere in the system. GP's books are full in many parts of the country. Waiting time for CGP are unacceptably long in many many places, the failure of primary healthcare to meet the basic needs of people is one of the, if not the most important factors leading to pressure on eds. Because what do you or I do when we can't get to see our doctrine, we're worried about our health. We go to the ED. That is all we can do.

That's the only option available to us, So we go, you know, And that's what people do. They're going to ED departments and wait to be seen there rather than having issues dealt with in primary care. And it's not just the issue of closed books and pressure on primary care services, so also the issue of cost for many people. A lot of people can't afford even sometimes quite basic elements of care. So there's constellation of factors there which

leads to pressure on ED departments. But yes, it's a big issue.

Speaker 2

Finally, Peter, I feel like speaking about the health sector and the health sector in crisis is just a broken record, right. Is the health sector a prime example for the need for long term bipartisan agreements, because surely we can't go on like this.

Speaker 3

I think that is just so on the money, long term bipartisan agreement around the direction of the health system. I think one of the things that we're experiencing right now, at least I am, and I think many people working in the health system is a sense of not really knowing what the direction is right now. Because it's a system which is so reliant on good will, trust, people working over beyond the call of duty, et cetera, et cetera.

There needs to be confidence that the systems lead in a way that is consistent with the values that people work in the system have, and that we have stability in leadership and leaders who are capable of forming long term relationships all around them to give confidence that we're, even through tough times, that we're all pulling in the

same direction. And I think that having some sense of direction for the public health system right now would be immensely helpful because to my mind, there are mixed signals at the moment around them. Role of I mean, the natural default I think for many in the current government would be private provision, a privatization of services, not just

healthcare but in many domains. And I think people working in the public system, which so many people in New Zealand are totally reliant on, they need confidence that there is a long term commitment and a bipartisan approach I think would be extremely helpful.

Speaker 1

Thanks for joining us, Peter pleasure to talk.

Speaker 2

That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.

Speaker 1

I'm Chelsea Daniels.

Speaker 2

Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.

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