Kyoda.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast.
Presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Cost of living and the economy remain top of the agenda for national.
Prime Minister Christopher.
Luxeen's already touting his leadership as one that is a clear choice for New Zealander's at next year's election, saying the government inherited.
A mess and is sorting it out.
However, commentators have been quick to point out the issues facing National ahead of the campaign, writing that Luxon is getting worried and that National is a mess. So as the battle lines start getting drawn in the beehive, what is ahead for politicians today? On the front Page, Outgoing News Talk z B political editor Jason Walls joins us to discuss the past week in politics and what could
lie head. First off, Jase, Christopher Exxon's out here talking about cleaning up messes, trust in his leadership and that the country's best days lie ahead. It kind of sounds like it's in a campaign mode already, Is it a bit too soon?
Oh? Well, when you're a prime minister, or any politician for that matter, every day is campaign mode because you're always looking to get reelected. And I think, especially now, you've got a national party that was so focused on the economy and saying we're the guys that can handle this, trust us to turn this around. And eighteen months later, I mean, we're in a position where things aren't looking good.
So I would say it's almost less campaigning. Is its damage control at this stage because you can talk about things like global factors until the cows come home, But at the end of the day, when the Nats are in opposition, they're ignoring those things and taking a crack at the then current government. So I think the chickens have in some ways come home to roost a little bit there.
Do Winston's small array of random bills being put into the Biggie ten spell a bit of I don't know, preparation from New Zealand. First, maybe they're slowly trying to back away from the coalition.
Well, I mean I just talked a moment ago about how every politician is always in campaign mode. There is nobody more so than Winston, Raymond Peter is always in campaign mode. And listen, this is just it's an interesting
phenomenon this New Zealand. First, I would say clogging the biscuit tin with some fairly irrelevant sort of bills, because if you're in a government party, you have the ability to put things on the government as gender and some of these things about you know, only flying New Zealand flags outside of New Zealand government buildings, which is a not of things like the LGBTQI plus flag and various other different flags that he's just making into these sort
of these culture wars and giving it the shroud of authenticity by putting it in the biscuit tin means that I think he thinks that it's going to have more of a poll with the public where it's actually not. I mean, just you could just put out a press release for these things. But what it's doing is you've
got other bills in the ballot. For example, Laura McClure from the ACT Party has this fantastic bill where she wants to ban nontensensual AI pawn And because Winston is putting every second week some of these bills in the ballot, which are frankly not very good pieces of legislation, it means it has less of a chance for the really good pieces of legislation to be pulled out. So, yes, it is one hundred percent electioneering by Winston and New
Zealand first. But I'm not surprised in the slightest.
We had Chris Hipkins on the podcast the other week. He seems to think we should have a little look about how MMP works.
I differ for a bit from the current government and the sense that, you know, I respect the important constituencies the smaller parties represent, and I also respect that we compete with them for votes too. I don't think under MMP the smaller parties should call all of the shots, you know. I still think that the bigger parties have a man to reflect the view of a much larger section of the electorate, and so I do think under
MMP you need to kind of keep proportionality in mind. Yes, there should be some concessions and some trade offs to the other parties in order to form government, but that doesn't mean that you should be doing things that you specifically told the electorate before the election that you weren't going to do.
What do you make of that suggestion.
I think it's kind of ironic coming from Chris Hopkins, who will probably be working with if he gets into government. TI Party Marii and the Greens, who will have a disproportionate impact because if you just look at their rhetoric now and I know things do get toned down a little bit when you're in government, but that will be a case of the tail wagging the dog in numerous circumstances. And frankly, I mean that's just the system that we
have in New Zealand. We have an MMP system where we don't have one party that has all the power. They actually do have to have communication and consultation with some of the smaller parties, but it's in. Remember it's in. Chris Hipkins is the best interest to call out the government for the sort of what he considerts to be the more fringe aspects of the right because it's going
to turn a lot of middle voters off. But he's got to be careful because you know, it's throwing stones in a glasshouse, because when it comes to the election, or even beforehand, you get parties on the right hand side saying the exact same thing about Chris Luxen, are Chris Hickins rather and the further left of that political spectrum with TI Party Marty.
Especially, how do you reckon everything's going at the moment. I mean, it's hardly been a coalition of chaos, has it.
No, it hasn't. And I think and will I will always say this, and it's one of my lasting memories or one of my lasting opinions of politics, is that Chris Luxen put together an extremely good coalition agreement. I mean, it's just again, we have to and we forget about this sometimes, but we have to remember that it's three parties in a coalition. That means you've got three parties
around the cabinet table. It's never been done. We've had confidence and supply mixed in with coalition, with the least labor government, and various other iterations in the past that three actual parties in a coalition government. Of course, we got people saying it was going to be a coalition of chaos because you look at Winston and you look at Seymour. I mean, when they're in opposition, they were literally threatening to fight each other. I don't use the word literally often, but they were.
They literally meet me outside.
There'll be three Winston was talking about how he had hit David Seymour and he'd have to call the ambulance this actually happened. It was just this wild West time and politics, and now the three of them are sitting around the cabinet table being all hunky doory with each other. Of course, people were saying that this was going to be a coalition of chaos, but because that coalition agreement was crafted so intricately, it meant that we've seen them
have their little scuffles. I'm sure that there has an eyes I understand it. Quite a lot of disagreements behind the scene, but as long as they stick to the legislative agenda that they've put forth, that's exactly what they've promised to the New Zealand voter.
A few commentators for The Herald have written about the potential concerns facing National. So Audrey Young wrote that Luxon is getting worried about National's messaging not getting through. Simon Wilson said that National is making a hash of things, and Matthew Houghton has declared Luxon is living on borrowed time. Not exactly the best headlines for them at the minute. What's causing this trend of headlines.
I suppose it's.
Just grim out there. It's just grim. It's the economy stupid, not telling you stupid. Of course, Chelse love you love your work. But it's the old phrase. National got into power by saying that they would fix the economy, and as Chris Hipkins has pointed out, it's been eighteen months and it's not fixed. You do have Chris Luxon on the other hand saying things like, well, it's going to
take more than eighteen months to turn it around. But it was Nikola Willis singliston twenty twenty five is going to be better, just wait for those interest rates to filter through.
And which is was that thrive so twenty twenty five? At one point?
Was it survive for twenty twenty five? I think it was because things were still grim in twenty twenty four. But how I'm not feeling I'm not thriving. I'm not sure that you are. I mean, I'm looking down the barrel of a massive loss in the house that I own. And you know that You've got a lot of my friends that are moving overseas. A lot of it is getting quite personal now, and people vote on the personal and if it starts to impact you, it starts to
affect you. If you start seeing some of your friends, some of your colleagues losing their job. As we see unemployment tacking up, that starts to become a problem and people want to look for someone to blame.
What do you think the government has actually is aware of the impacts of cost of living. We had some worrying unemployment stats out this week, but Finance Minister Nichola Willis said people were taking a glass half empty approach and once again blamed the previous government.
Yeah, and listen, I kind of do feel for Nikola Willis on this one, because she is right. You know, Treasury were expecting I think a five point three five point four percent unemployment rate. We got five point two, So it is better than expectations. It's better than what a lot of economists were expecting. But it's still right up there with the highest unemployment rates since twenty twenty. So, I mean, you've got to look at it. You could do it glass half full and you could do a
glass half empty. Of course, Nikola Willis is going to do the glass half full because the buck stops with her with something like that. But yeah, you just can't need to take a little bit of a historical perspective on unemployment. My good friend Thomas Coglan will say this that the John Key era government, unemployment was above five percent for every single quarter they were in government bar the last one maybe two while Bill English was in government,
and then everything switched. The government changed and it got over to labor and so unemployment has historically usually set around the level that we're seeing right now. We just had a period of time where it was historically quite low. I mean it's one point. With the Arderne years, we were getting it into the three percent, which is very we usually it's quite unheard of in New Zealand context.
Could that be attributed to COVID as well though, us not being able to leave the country.
You've got to look at the fact that there are so many people leave it. You've got to start asking some questions about that and if there's more people here. There was a lot of government subsidies at that time. Of course, there was the you know, if the government didn't do the wage subsidies scheme would have been a lot higher. Obviously, that's just how it works. So you know, I don't think it is as pure market led economy as the labor government would have had you believe at
the time, there was a lot of government interventions. But still, you know, if people are just looking at the raw numbers, which I will say again the Nest did when they're in opposition, so you've got to compare apples to apples on these sorts of things.
Speaking of the next election, the government set aside twenty five million dollars for a referendum on four year parliamentary terms. It's agreed in principle to holding one, but a final decision isn't expected until early next month. What are the vibes Jason like? How likely is this referendum? Do you think the reference.
That's a bit of a toss up. I think that they've talked about it for a while and it may or may not be at the next election. I mean, the fact that they set funding aside for it is a pretty indicative nod to the fact that it will be happening. But I think the more interesting question is will where does the New Zealand public sit on this one? Because I think absolutely four year terms. I mean you look over at the UK, for example, five years I
think is too long. Three years is too short because you have one year to kind of get yourself to your feet under the desk and figure it all out. You have a second year to be like, Okay, I know what's going on here, let's try and move something through.
And then you've got the third year that is actually you're more or less campaigning for a lot of the time, and voters know that, and so what tends to happen is say, okay, we'll give you at least two terms, and then it gets to the point where too long.
You know, it's a default six year term. So having it four years kind of cuts both ways because it means that voters will be less sympathetic to the argument to say that, oh, they've only had three years, we'll give them another go just to see how they go. Because four years you really should be starting to get something done. At the same time, it's not too short to say that, you know, nothing could get done if
things did go really sideways. So I think you've got people like Chris Hipkins and Chris Luxon both saying that they want a four year term, and they've said that, you know, it will happen eventually. I'm sure some of the other candidates, like David Seymour, I do remember him being sympathetic to it. The outlies. Of course, Winston and Ti Party Marti. You never really know what they're going to say on an issue, so we'll wait to see what they say, or we'll do a bit more research
into what they've already said. But I think the New Zealand public will be very sympathetic to it.
And of course we can't go and speak about politics, especially this week without mentioning Trump's tariffs.
How do you reckon our government has fared?
Oh, there's nothing they can do really. You know, they got to ten percent and they were happy with that, and I understood why because if you're playing at a level playing field with other countries that are ten percent,
that's fantastic. But if you're looking at other countries, say Vietnam or some there where they export you know, they export some dairy to the US, we're obviously going to have a better competitive advantage there if our tariffs are ten and there's our can't remember what they are, but I think they were up around the thirties. Essentially bringing us up to fifteen is a bit of a blow. The government needs to put on a bit of a brave face and show that they're trying to overturn these things.
They can't take it lying down. But at the end of the day, you know, Todd with Play is not going to a bang on the Oval Office door and say, mister Trump, we've got our dairy exporters, we've got our wine exporters. Have you not considered them? And he's going to be like, oh, sorry, I didn't consider them. You know, it's just not going to happen New Zealand. Is we forget because we're here, that we are, we're seen on
the global stage is nice, but fairly irrelevant. And so if they start ratcheting down New Zealand's tariffs, other countries are going to be asking some questions, other countries with much bigger economic footprints than ours.
We will have to see what the impact of this latest development is, but I expect that some of those companies will probably now we double their efforts to develop and explore other markets. The government, for our part, will continue out of work to support those exporters with good information. We will continue our work to open up new markets around the world and to pursue good trade into those
countries with whom we already have free trade arrangements. And we will continue to represent New Zealand's case for a better deal with the US.
And while we're on the subject, what have the Greens into Padimori been up too lately.
Oh, they've been playing opposition, you know, this is the things that they do. They try and get into the press. I think that Chloe Straubrick I was having a good chat with her the other night actually about how she sees the lay of the land right now, and she's pretty happy with how the Greens are going And why wouldn't. You're at twelve percent. You did your budget where you taxed everybody from Arthur to Martha the whole way through and or you proposed to and people like that. The
elector like that, the Green Party base like that. So she's probably in quite good spirits Tea Party Marty as well. I mean they're coming up with the brunting up against Labor at the upcoming by election and that's going to be a real test for both parties the ultimate makeup of parliament that you know, we're not going to top all the government with the Tomackie mccod or by election, but it is an indicative look into how the sort of the Marti world New Zealand sees the opposition right now.
You more of a Tea Party Marty person or more of a labor person. And you've got two exceptional candidates, I mean or any versus Peni Hennedy. It's going to be a blockbuster and I'm looking forward to it because of what it represents for the next year's election. So keep an eye Peel's keep two eyes peeled, I would say actual.
And lastly, Jace, I know it's your last day in the Beehive today and got word around the office.
I think as well have a listen to this.
Well.
Jason.
Look, I just want to say, mate, thank you so much for all the work in the press gallery. I've got to be honest, sometimes you're not my most favorite people on earth, but I have to say you've been
absolutely stellar. You've been there nine years, You've done an exceptionally good job, You've learned all about politics, and I just think you I wish you're all the very best, mate, as I've spoken to you before, in the next part of your career, it's a really great move for you personally, and I think you're going to be awesome at it. So thanks what you've been doing covering politics, down in Wellington and getting the message out to the people about what's really going on.
I appreciate what you work.
Take care of mate, go well. I feel a bit bad about what I've said about the economy. Now, thank you, right, honorable Chris Mark Lutson. That was very nice, Savid. It's been a what heck of a ride over the last nine years.
What's it like?
I mean in terms of the faces that you see coming and going when you're in the bee Hive for that long, do you see the intricacies of different personalities and how different governments really take hold and see those changes?
Yeah, I mean the thing about politics, and this is going to sound cheesy, but bear with me. It is really about the people. And I can say genuinely with my hand on my heart that everybody here that I've caught to is here because they want to make a difference. So as a matter, if you're on the center left, the far left, to the center right, the further right, you know, everybody here is here because they genuinely they've been voted in by a constituent base that they really
want to represent. And it's been one of the best things about being a gallery reporter. Especially more of a senior gallery reporter is you get to see the people behind the scenes and you get to talk to them and actually find out what makes them tick. And they're all really they get along. It's the thing like it was the other night. I'm sure they might be saying this.
The two polar opposite people in Parliament would probably be Stephen Abel from the Greens and Simon Court from Act and the other night we're having some drinks in the gallery and the two of them would talking like old friends. And it's those sorts of things that I really love about this place is that there's a lot of theater.
There's a lot of rgi bargie when the cameras are on, but when they're off, actually people get along, and in select committees and in various different places that we don't usually see, there's a lot of people working together to
make this country really great. So after being here for so long, I mean, I've covered some crazy stories, some incredible times for New Zealand, but I'll remember the fact that at the end of the day, people are genuinely here to make this country a better place, and we're really well served by our politicians and the press gallery. Of course, what a great group of people, especially the newstalksb Office and the Herald.
Thanks for joining us, Jash, no problem, by friend. That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also I Am Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.