Kyota.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald.
If you've turned on any.
American news channel in the last week, you would have seen water wall coverage of protests spreading across the country. It all started in Los Angeles, where clashes between police and protesters were exacerbated by Donald Trump bypassing Governor Gavin Newsom and sending National Guard and Marine troops to the city.
La Mayor Karen Bass has.
Blamed the protests on Trump's immigration raids, which she said provoked residents by causing fear and panic. Meanwhile, Trump has compared protesters to a foreign invasion and said troops will liberate Los Angeles. With the protests now being picked up in other major cities, how wide spread could this get and how much of this is a test case for
what will happen in the rest of Trump's term. Today on the Front Page, nine News, US correspondent Jonathan Kurzley is with us from Los Angeles to explain what's happening on the ground. First off, can you tell me how these protests started.
Yeah, these protests started almost a week ago. It was essentially following raids that had been carried out by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement officials in Los Angeles. Similar raids had been done in Chicago, previously wooded by the Trump administration. They say to targets illegal immigrants who have committed violent crimes and to deport them. Los Angeles has a huge migrant community and a very large Hispanic and Mexican population.
There have been concerns amongst some people, even though they say they are legitimate citizens, that they fear they could be deported, or that they're family members who may be undocumented may be deported by the Trump administration. There was anger on the streets on Friday, and in the days that followed that anger erupted and it's spread like wildfire across the country.
Yes, so tell me about this ICE situation, perhaps for some Kiwis who don't know what that is.
ICE is essentially the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. It is, if you like, the agency that goes and looks after trying to find illegal immigrants or trying to find issues with customs breaches, and then enforcing those measures.
Now they've been enforced much more.
Forcefully under the administration of President Trump than perhaps many experts say previous administration. Donald Trump has made no bones about what it is he wants to do with migration. He's claimed America has had an open border, it's had migration problems. He's pointed to cases where illegal immigrants have killed people, have harmed people, have maimed people, and spoken with family members who say that their loved ones would not have been in such a position had it not
been for an attack by an illegal immigrant. Many of the migrant community, particularly here in Los Angeles, though, feel that that is a slur against them. And I'm talking about proper migrants here, documented migrants who are here in this country properly, but just so happened to be of a Mexican background, or a Colombian background, or any particular foreign background that is not American. They feel that this is an attack on them and their community and their
family members. And it's been well known for a long period of time that there are large numbers of undocumented migrants in the Los Angeles and California area.
The economy for years has relied on.
These workers to be part of this industry and to be part of the employment sector. And right now that they all feel as though they are under attack. So the ICE Agency is the one in charge of carrying out the wishes of the administration when it comes to border measures and immigration issues.
Essentially, they are.
In country to carry out roads on people who they want to get out of the country.
Well, the chaos here in downtown Los Angeles continues tonight. I got to say, doesn't feel like the ala we all know and are familiar with. This feels like some sort of Third world conflicts. I mean, we have fires burning in the middle of intersections. We have police and law enforcement agencies under constant attack by these protest as they have had.
Rocks hurled through the winter.
They are firing fireworks directly at offices who are backed off.
Of it, I've got to say.
And as the knight has worn on, the number of protesters certainly has dwindled, But they are the ones left are the real anarchists, the ones who are intent on causing the most damaged.
What's it like there on the ground in Los Angeles.
We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, New Zealand time.
What have you sai as I talk to you, this is now Wednesday evening, Los Angeles time.
It is day six of these protests.
Today, we've seen the protests dwindle in size. We are approaching the time of the curfew that has been set for eight pm local time.
That is a curfew.
Have read about a couple of square kilometers of downtown Los Angeles, in the area that is normally thriving with people. It is largely a business district, and most of the protesters have been targeting federal buildings or court buildings or the headquarters of the Los Angeles Police Department that are also down there as well. But it has been much
quieter today than we've seen in previous days. We as I mentioned it started Friday, things picked up over Saturday, particularly into Sunday and Monday, and.
Then Tuesday and Wednesday.
Here things have really started to die down a little bit. Maybe there is a sense that we are getting to the end of this cycle of protests.
But you look at New York, you look at Dallas.
You look at Atlanta, in Georgia, Boston, Chicago, there have been spotfires, protests.
Flare up right across this country.
So even though Los Angeles may be calming, it may start to get a little bit noisier in other cities. So you have to remember here too, Donald Trump has effectively mobilized seven hundred Marines. The idea that you would use the US Marines an arm of the US military,
against his own citizens is an extraordinary move. He's also moved to mobilize thousands of National Guard to do a move where he's effectively overruling and overriding a state governor here in the United States, which has been done since nineteen sixty five. There is an extraordinary amount of power being thrown at this to try and quell what today looks like to be just maybe a couple of hundred
protesters on the streets. You do hope, though, that the violence calms down, that people who want to discuss these issues can get around a table and discuss them, because it's been pretty frightening scenes on the streets of Los Angeles over the course of the last week or so.
Yeah, and you've spoken to people on the ground. I mean, what's a story from someone that you've spoken to that sticks out to you.
We've spoken to people who have had their father deported that they are protesting for their own father's sake. We've spoken to people who are concerned about their neighbors being deported. It is a real sense of community spirit among those who are down there legitimately trying to plead their case. There is certainly a sign that there are trouble makers in amongst the mix. And you did when I've been out there, you tend to see the same groups of people moving around bit by bit.
But those who are passionate about.
This issue on a personal level and who it impacts really are just trying to drive the point home that these fathers, they are sons, they are people who are not criminals being targeted, they say, and they are trying to get a message across the Amrea people that what is taking place is not right, is not fair, and is not just. So it is certainly for these people
it is emotional, it is deeply heartbreaking. But then you combine that with those who are seeking to carry out these protests because they want to clash with police, it damages the movement of the protesters as a whole. Those who are merely demonstrating about their own families, plant their own communities light and trying to get the message across to the Trump administration that things need to calm down.
You take a look at what happened in San Diego. There's so many different places where we let it burn. We want to be politically correct, We wanted to be nice. We want to be nice to the criminal, and what you're doing is destroying the fabric of our life in this country. Now, we did the right thing.
We've been given credit for by.
People that I would least suspect. I would say that some of the people that came in and said thank goodness, they said some of them thank god that Trump got involved. And I'm very happy I got involved. And I think Gavin, in his own way, is probably happy I got involved.
So Trump's defended his decision to send in the troops, saying it was to prevent the city being conquered by a foreign enemy. What are people saying about the use of the military there.
Here in Los Angeles across California. It's fury.
It's a fear that their streets are being militarized, that they are having their own army used against them, that the National Guard is being brought in when it's not needed.
The LAPD, the police department in.
Los Angeles, had said for the first couple of days they believed that they could control the situation.
By about night.
Three, they started to move their positions, say hey, look, maybe the National Guard could be brought in. We've seen Republican governors, that is, governors of Donald Trump's party and others dates bring in the National Guard. Normally it is the responsibility of a state governor to say, okay, now
it is time for the National Guard. And they are essentially troops who come in in the event of emergencies or natural disasters and help either clean up, restore peace, and make areas a little bit safer.
So they can be everything from road closures to.
As I've seen, standing outside federal immigration facilities with armed weapons. So look, there is a real sense of anger about the action that President Trump has taken. And I think the US Marines we've seen mobilized into Los Angeles over the course of the last forty eight hours, if they were ever to be in a position where you had Marines standing shoulder to shoulder jostling with protesters, that would be a very difficult image for Americans to comprehend. The
idea of their own army. That idea is to serve and to protect all of a sudden is being used on their own citizens. Rather than fighting foreign wars or
fighting wars to protect American lives. It's an extraordinary position that America finds itself in, and many people that you speak to, whether they are political analysts or whether they are people on the street, to tell you that this is all about Donald Trump trying to wield power and exert influence and to say to the rest of America that if you do not agree with you, do not follow my policies in the way I want you to, then I have the force and I can use it.
That's the message he wants to send across America with this. At the moment, though, you've got protesters in multiple cities who are starting to speak up and speak out.
A lot of this feels like it's turning into a Trump versus Democrats, issue, doesn't it. California is obviously the most populous US state, pretty dominated by Democrat governors, mayor's, senators, Congress people. Does it feel like he's sending a message to the Democrats maybe about how far he is actually willing to go.
It's a message to Democrats, it's a message to Republicans, it's a message to Americans, it's a message to the world It is about power in so many aspects. Donald Trump has long wanted a fight with California. He has long wanted to try and turn this state Democrat blue into Republican red. Part of this for him is a political power play. He is taking up a political fight at the upper level with the Californian Democrats, Governor Gavin Newsom.
He is feuding with Elais Mayor Karen Bass, and.
He feuded with both during the fires in January of this year as well. So this is not new ground for him. He has done this before and he will continue to do it. He is trying to show that he wields the power, that he is America's commander in chief, and he's also a.
Fan of potential. So he's getting it.
The question is, though, is whether that attention is going to be positive for him or negative for him. Right now, he will see that he is winning, think that he is winning a public fight with Gavin Newsom, with Karen Bass. But this is also a fight that is obviously right the way down at the street level. Two, this is not just about Donald Trump and governors. This is about ideologies,
This is about policy, This is about people's lives. But the American president is known so much for thinking only about the American president and how he's perceived.
Yeah, I understand.
California Governor Gavin Newsom is seen as a potential presidential contend of the Democratic Party.
How has he fared through all of this? Do people like him?
There?
Govern Newsom is very well liked in California. He is very popular among the Democratic base. He is well liked for standing up to Donald Trump. Whether that message is going to be received by people who might want to vote for him in a primary in twenty twenty eight on the other side of the country, I don't yet know. And you have to factor into this too. Yes, Governor Newsom may well be making a power play for the
twenty twenty eight nomination. So part of this fight for him is certainly on that to a level, there is politics playing out within what is a pretty nasty situation on the ground, and nobody ever wants to see politics involved in these things. But it is politics that led to it. It is politics that is filtering all the way through it, and it is ambition and desire for power that is also driving it, and that is driving
the argument on both sides. Be it Donald Trump's argument bit Gavin Newsom's argument his message yesterday that he put out as I talked to you on Wednesday, Los Angeles Time. His message he put out Tuesday, Los Angeles Time was quite simply extraordinary. It was essentially accusing the president of the United States of America of being somebody who was essentially trying to be an authoritarian figure, trying to be a dictator, trying to militarize the streets of America's second largest city.
Trump is pulling a military dragnet all across Los Angeles. Well beyond his stated intent to just go after violent and serious criminals. His agents are arresting dishwashers, gardeners, day laborers, and seamstresses. That's just weakness, weakness masquerading as strength. Donald Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities, and that seems to be the entire point. California will
keep fighting. We'll keep fighting on behalf of our people, all of our people, including in the courts.
It's an extraordinary level of commentary from a man who is also at the same time trying to weigh up his own police future. What happens for him when he is no longer governor, does he try and be the next person in the White House.
As an Australian in the US, does this all feel a little bit abnormal? Just watching the scenes on TV, it feels strange to see all of this happening, these kind of demonstrations, the troops coming in. It just seems so extreme. I mean, your colleague Lauren to MARSI got shot by a rubber bullet while reporting. So does this feel extraordinary to you?
Well, first things first, we're all just glad that Lauren is okay. She has spoken out about what she went through, and she was doing her job. She does an extraordinary job at everything she does. She's an extraordinary colleague and a good friend. And she went through what she has described as an unfortunate experience and I think.
That's putting it mildly. She was shot reporting at a protest.
Actions that Australia's own Prime Minister have described as horrific to have to happen to someone, and he has seen the footage himself.
Hours of standing off this situation has now rapidly deteriorated. The LAPD moving it on horseback, firing rubber bullets and protesters moving them on through the heart of LA. Look, I feel embarrassed, quite frankly, I really don't want to be the story as part of this. We were just on the ground trying to do our job. I was there, you know, Jimmy and I were doing our best to bring to Australia what is unfolding on the streets of LA And I think, you know, as a journalist, we
want to be there telling the story. I think, you know, it's it's a really crappy thing that's happened. But I really, I really don't want to be the story here. It is, you know, a really chaotic situation that's unfolding in Los Angeles.
We see on the streets here in America, well, American.
Protests you see more broadly moving around the country are more different than we might be used to in Australia or even New Zealand. Here you're dealing with an entirely different situation, and it also depends on which.
State you're in.
Now, why are police so heavily armed, Why are they using so much force? Why they designed to use non lethal force? Well, there's a range of reasons for that across different cities. But you've also got to remember too, I think there's an added aspect to this that in some states in America there is open carry a lot of firearms. In other states there's concealed carrier a lot of firearms. So ultimately it's a difficult job too for police in some senses, because they might be able to
protest not knowing what people are carrying. Somebody could have a gun on them and they just don't know. So LA has seen huge numbers of big protests over many, many years. It has become not a protest hub. But you go back to the Black Lives Matter protests of twenty twenty in the in the wake of the murder of George Floyd, or go to the Rodney King protests of the nineteen nineties. I mean, it has a history of protest activity and police overreach in some certain aspects too.
So when you are at these things, you have to be on edge.
We take security with us everywhere we go in these things in case when we need to get dragged out of the situation. But ordinary protesters don't have security with them. They don't have somebody standing at their shoulder watching ready to pull them out if something gets a little bit hairy. So look, yes, American protest situations, they're far more different than we might be used to. But also you have to say, more broadly, America as a country as a
whole can be a fantastic place to live in. There are beautiful parts of this country right across it. But you know, you can turn up to a protest like the ones we've seen in Los Angeles and things can go wrong. Things can go wrong anywhere, but right now Los Angeles, we hope the situation is starting to.
Calm down a little bit.
But these are going to be discussions that continue for years long beyond these protests about immigration, around protest conditions, around should the military even be allowed to be called on and turned on it against American citizens. Those conversations will happen, But right now you've just got to try and find some way to get peace on the streets.
Thanks for joining us, Jonathan, no worries.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.