Kiota.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Christopher Luxon believes his so called Coalition of Chaos has defied the critics. The Prime Minister is spending the remainder of twenty twenty four lauding his government's achievements. Inflation is under three percent, a thirty percent increase of cops on the beat, twenty six new cancer treatments, tax relief.
That's just a name a few.
But he is ending the year facing criticism over his handling of the Treaty Principles Bill and for his corporate way of talking and pole results show a deadlock.
Between the left and right coalitions.
So with a promise to get the country back on track and a focus on rebuilding the economy, can Luxon turn around the public criticism. Today on the front Page, the Prime Minister joins us to discuss the year that's been his hopes for twenty twenty five and if the new year could see the government up the anti when it comes to welcoming foreign investment. First off, Prime Minister, how's the year gone?
Well? Look, I mean it's been a really tough year for many New Zealanders as we've dealt with sort of some of the economic challenges. But you know, to be Prime Minister is just a huge privilege and an awesome responsibility, and it's also been a very inspiring one and the sense of you you get to see Kiwi through incredible
things across this country each and every day. So yeah, I'm proud of the year in terms of I feel like we've formed a good team, We've made some good progress, we're being able to lift your international relationships, been able to a number of things, and I feel very very optimistic about our future as I go forward from here.
What's been the biggest challenge so far?
I mean everything's challenging when you're Prime Minister in the sense of if they were easy decisions, they would be made somewhere else in the system, and so you know, the difficult decisions come onto your desk and they're often complex and a bit more layered than you may initially
think or observe from outside. So every day there's something new and different and complex and challenging, and that's you know, personally, that's what I enjoy, is that you're there to solve problems, and you're there to make decisions and in the interests of the country and trying to set it up for long term success. And so there's no not one particular thing per se. It's just that you know, every day there's something different and complex to work your way through.
You know, how do you get in place the funding that you need to spend money on health and education when you might have a big interest bill at nine billion dollars to pay. You know, it's those sorts of challenges that we can counter each and every day.
You've faced a lot of criticism in recent weeks from across the political divide. Are you paying attention to any of that first off?
Or is that just noise to you?
There is criticism every day in this job, so you're informed of it, but you're not consumed by it. But look, I just say to you, look, you know, we feel really good. We've great to see that our support and the numbers that I see has actually improved over where we were in the election. You know that means that people used to say the country was hitting in the wrong direction. Now people say the country's hitting the right direction.
They know it's been tough, but they know that we're a government with a plan and we're having to face up some really difficult choices, but we're working our way through it well. So you know, it's pretty pretty good when you think about a government twelve months into it. To be ahead of where we were on election night in public support as fantastic and I get out of
Wellington as quickly as possible. When you meet New Zealanders all up and down this country, and yes it's been challenging for many, but they can see that, you know, their interest bills are coming down, their mortgages inflations come down, our crime is starting to turn and come down. They can see that we're trying to drive our education system back to basics so our kids are set up for success and not behind kids in Singapore or Australia or
somewhere else in the world. And we've got some real investment going to healthcare and we've got to make sure we work that hard to get improved outcomes for people. We've got a long way to go, so you know, we've got a lot of work ahead of us, but in twelve months, you know, we're doing a big turnaround job. We're getting you know, and we're getting get in the country moving, which has been good. Wouldn't an economically literate
government have worked this out of it sooner? Jack? Jack, Jack, I just say to you, it tells everyone about your economic I just says it. Hang on, I haven't even asked a question. What I'm saying to you is it is challenging times when New Zealand. I'd say that I would say to you that, Well, I just say to you, we've seen I'll just say to you, under your tax package what to say to you with relatives to the
rest of the population. But but what I say to you, Jack, You're saying a lot of things to me, but you're not actually we actually answered.
So I've heard that you acknowledge that you need to work on your tendency for corporate speak. There's also been some reaction to your use of the phrase what I say to you is.
Are these things that you're going to be working on in twenty twenty five?
Well, I haven't heard about the second one. But look, what I say to you is, yeah, what I will say to you is that I am from outside the political system. You know, I'm not a career politician. And that's a fantastic thing because right now is Island has been in a huge economic mess, one that we haven't
seen for decades. And actually, I think my background, my experience coming to politics in the way that I have just four years ago and being Prime Minister and leading a team to actually make sure we sought problems out for people is exactly what New Zealand needs right now. So if I get it, the Beltway and a lot of people who are pundits and commentators and say whatever they want, they've been saying that for four years since
I came to politics. Frankly, I'm informed about it, but I'm not consumed by it because I know why I'm here, because I choose to do this job. I chose to come to politics because I think this is a fantastic country with an awesome future, and I think I've got something to offer.
We had Chris Hopkins on last week and he said.
I don't think a lot of New Zealanders think he's a bad prime minister, and I think they've got good good grounds for that.
What would you say to that? Was he a good pam?
He was a terrible prime minister. He took the keys to the car, he drove it, at tremendous speed. Put it into the ditch. We're hauling it out of the ditch, getting it our right way up, and then we're moving it forward. I mean, honestly, he was a terrible prime minister. I mean, how do you increase government spending by eighty
four percent? How do you drive inflation to highs? How do you have twelve interest rate rises that for the average New Zealand I meant they had to find seven hundred dollars a fortnite if they were lucky enough to own a house. How do you spend more, borrow more, tax more, hire more people and deliver worse outcomes in every dimension? So you know, yeah, look, I mean, so don't take lectures from crescip Cans with all due respect.
Well, speaking of the economy, how much credit do you think the government deserves for how things have performed this year?
I mean, that is job number one for us as to put financial discipline back into the government. Businesses have had to do that over the last few years because of the mismanagement from Chrysipkins team and himself. Families have had to adjust their budgets and decide not to spend money on things for their kids because of the mismanagement from the previous government. You cannot spend, drive inflation, interest rates up, put the economy into recession for the last
three years, and drive unemployment up. And that is the legacy record of crucip Cans and Labour team. So you know this government, we're fixing those things. We have to go back and relearn some lessons that the country learned thirty five years ago. You've got to have good financial management, just like you doing your family budget, just like you do in your small business. You've got it, then get inflation down for people. It's now within the band under
three percent, which is fantastic. Because of that, and because we've been good fiscal plan operators, you end up then lowering your interest rates. That doesn't just happen. It doesn't just miraculously sort of happen. It happens because there's a
plan and we're working our way through it. We now have business confidence at a teen year high, we have consumer confidence at a three year high, and so and now we've got to focus on that translating into economic growth and that obviously making sure that we keep people in jobs and employment. Unemployment's the last thing and unemployment
sadly affects lower middle income News Islanders. And so if you care about lower middle income working News Islanders, as I do, as my government does, as my party does, that's why you need to manage the economy well, because when you don't and you take it for granted, you end up with the mess that we inherited after six years of a labor experiment that was horribly wrong.
Could there be an opportunity for New Zealand to welcome more public private partnerships with the stipulation of the funds are key we based. I mean I saw a figure from Ossie and they're seeing something like one hundred and sixty billion dollars a quarter in investments by super funds into infrastructure alone. Imagine just half a percent of that, we'd have a second Harbor bridge in Auckland in no time.
Right, Well, you're onto the right thing. We have major challenges on infrastructure. We can't get things built, it takes too long. And also we don't always we don't have the financial capacity to fund it all from within government for the infrastructure that we want to see. So there's two things. You're right, Yes, we could use domestic pools of capital more and will continue to look at that.
But the other thing, frankly, Chelsea, is that we also need to make sure that we attract foreign investment to New Zealand. New Zealand is thirty eight out of thirty eight now in terms of being an attractive place for big international superannuation funds all around the world, which has lots of money in those funds looking for a home to invest who are very open to investing in New Zealand but don't because they think it takes too long, it costs too much. And that's why things like our
fast tracked legislation have been important. That's why you're setting a thirty year pipeline of infrastructure projects that are actually laid out really clearly, like you see in New South Wales and other parts of the world. All of those things that we're putting in place are other things that we need to do to make sure that we actually move on and actually can access pools of capital from overseas automistically to get things built quicker and faster in New Zealand.
Well, what we really need though, is long term plans. Hey, last time you're on the front page, you said more cross party collaborations are needed when it comes to those big infrastructure projects. Is that something that we could see, say next year.
Yeah, I mean we have been. What we've got to do is work on a thirty year pipeline that you should be an independent list of infrastructure projects for the country that are the right things for us to be doing at the moment. We get money together, we scrape it all around, we put it together on one project, we work really hard to try and get that project done, and everything it takes too long, and everybod there's a cost over because it's been badly managed partner by the
previous government. Think to needn hospital, think berries. And then what we've got to do is have a longer term pipeline of infrastructure projects and then have our city regional deals and have an agency that actually knows how to get the funding and financing in place for it. And so that's the mechanism we're putting in place. I do agree with you. I think it'd be fantastic to have
bipartisan support. And so even just on our new statement around public private partnerships, you know, we've reached out to labor. We've got Barbara Edmonds to come on board and actually support that program as well. So that's a good development. That's a good thing. You know, it shouldn't be as politicized as it is in New Zealand. If you just think about a project like Auckland light rail, which the last government mismanaged so badly. You know, Montreal started a
project similar to that. They started it but later finished it. Within five years people are on their light rail trains. We spent two hundred and fifteen million dollars on it and we still didn't know where we were we were putting the tracks if we could ever get the tracks down. So I mean we are terrible at it. You know, Cambridge to Clearity road gets turned on off depending on which government's in place. That is just basics. Building roads
is not difficult or complicated. It happens all around the world. So we do have to manage infrastructure a much better way going forward.
This is a damaging piece of legislation. This government, Christopher Lutson is taking a recon ball to the work that has been done by successive governments over the past fifty years since the White Time You Tribunal was established. This bill of would amount to the dictatorship of the majority this parliament can it has passed racist laws in the past, and Marty are still paying the price and we all are still paying the price.
When it comes to the Treaty in School's Bill.
I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but do you think voting against the bill at the second reading is good enough? Because it seems like just the mere existence of it has kickstarted a debate that will never end and I mean Seema will no doubt bring it up again in twenty twenty six.
Well, what I say on that one is that you have to understand that under Hipkins and a Ajourn and when they went off into things like the Maori Health Authority, when they went off and forced Mark Mary Wards onto local governments from Central Wellington, when they started to talk about co governance and spent one point two billion dollars on three waters projects that didn't even go anywhere. You know, all of that created a huge division and frustration within
New Zealand. And unlike Jim Bolter who took New Zealanders on a journey and made the case for Treaty settlements, there was no political capital spent or any effort to take New Zealanders with them on that agenda. So going into the last election, there was immense frustration, and that
frustration sits on both sides of that debate. We just happened to think that that frustration, as legitimate as well be, is not best served by a very simplistic Treaty Principles bill that with the stroke of a peon overcomes one hundred and eighty four years of debate and discussion. We need to make sure these enders have equal rights. It's a fundamental and we also need to make sure that the Crown meets its obligations under the treaty and so
and that treaty process. We you know, we disagree on the issues, but we stay committed and we stayed talking to each other over the last one hundred and eighty four years. We haven't agreed on everything over that period of time, but I think the treaty has made us better. So we should continue to grapple with it. We should continue to wrest authors, but we should also take the issues case by case, issue by issue, and that's our approach.
And so, you know, we dismantled the Malori Health Authority because it just wasn't going to deliver outcomes. We pushed actually the decision on local wards and local governments should be a local community decision, not mandated out of here, out of Wellington. We have believed that the Marine and Coastal Court decisions were wrong. We're inconsistent with the legislations subsequently been confirmed by the Supreme Court. But you know
that's why we're legislating for that. You know, that's why we've pushed three waters back to local communities and also given them funding and financing mechanisms to make sure they manage those assets well. So that's the way to deal with it is wrestle with each individual issue that comes up, as we have done for one hundred and eighty four years, rather than have a simplistic bill. And then, most importantly, Chelsea, it's all about outcomes. And frankly, Mary want higher incomes.
Mary want better quality housing, Mary want better education and constant their kids. They want better access to healthcare, and they want to be less victims of crime across New Zealand. So the things that we're focused on of rebuilding the economy, restoring law and order, delivering better health and education the same things that might want and we've got to deliver outcomes because frankly, six years of labor talk a lot didn't deliver for Mary at all.
When do you think the deadline is when you can stop blaming the previous government?
Do you think it's about now? Do you reckon you're still allowed to do that next year? I mean genuine question.
Well, the reality is that what you were to doing a turnaround job here?
Right?
I mean we are given six years.
Yeah, sure, so six years of mismanagement doesn't get sorted in twelve months. But you've got to under when you're doing a turnaround job, you've got to face up to the reality and the starting point. You may want to put your head in the sand and say it's all fine and not confront it, but you actually have to call out that reality and say this is where I'm starting on, this is the motivation or this is the
problem that we now need to solve. We have if you think about it, we have violent crime up thirty three percent. We've gaged membership up fifty percent, we have a doubling of retail crime. We have fourfold increase in RAM raids. That's the starting point, that's what we inherited. Do we want to carry on and just let that carry on, or do you want to do something about it. We chose to do something about it. As a result, we now have victimizations down three percent. We have ram
raids down sixty four percent. You and I don't talk about ram raids. That all its ease to do with the media every single day. We have a thirty percent increase in police out on the meat I said, total crimes down about three percent at this point. Now, we've got a lot longer to go, but we've done things game laws, serious young offenders, sentencing laws, police recruitment efforts.
We're doing the but the actual tasks and the jobs and the actions you need to do in order to get air different set of outcomes.
Thanks for joining US, Prime Minister.
Thanks so much. Bye.
That's it for this.
Episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot co dot nz.
The Front Page is produced by Ethan.
Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
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