Kilda.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It'll come as no surprise when I say New Zealand has a huge problem with keeping our children safe, fed and housed, while kids go without basic needs like heating and food. We started this year with two tragic child deaths within
a week. Government stats show twenty three point five percent of children born in nineteen ninety eight have been subject of a report of concern to oranga tamariki by the age of seventeen, more than one in five kids. And what happens to these kids? Some of them go on to commit crimes.
Take a police.
Study into youth involved in ramraids, for example, they looked at sixty three children and young people involved in ramraids in twenty twenty. More than ninety five percent were linked to at least one family harm event before first coming to police attention as a suspect or offender.
So what do we do with these kids?
The government reckons boot camps are one of the ways to rehabilitate them, and there's constant debate.
About their effectiveness.
Most recently claims of a cover up and high reoffending rates were a pilot of the latest iteration today on the front page, Minister for Children and for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence Karen sure is with US.
Minister.
Over the last week, Labor has accused the government of a cover up around the boot Camp trial and the extent of the reoffending there. What do you say to claims that up to six of the young youth offenders are back in youth justice facilities.
And I'm not going to get into numbers of these young people. Unfortunately, since this pilot has begun, has been brought to my attention by those who are working with these young people that they have expressed through their care teams that the media attention on them has had a real negative effect and it's actually affecting their well being.
So my ultimate goal is around making sure that these young people's safety and well being at first and foremost, and so that's why I've made this decision that we need to just allow them to get on with what they need to be doing.
It was a pilot for a reason, though, right what have you learned from it and what changes should be made if it were to continue.
So we've just released the first review I think it was last week that was released around the in residence part of the program, which was around three months, and it shows some really positive results for the young people, and not only just for the young people, but for the staff working with them. It's setting a new way of working with these young people when they come to
You've Justice residents. So these young people that qualify for the military style academy must have committed at least two crimes, being eligible for a sentence of ten years or more so their repeat offenders. What we've done in the past is there been sentenced, put in a youth justice facility, do their sentence and leave, and then they're back in the community, creating more victims, getting into trouble, and then
ending up back in a youth justice facility. What I've done here is just ask the question, what could we be doing better? Instead of just sticking them in a youth justice facility, waiting for them to see the sentence out and send them back to the same environment they were coming from. Let's wrap around not only that young person, assess them, see what their needs are medically and also
their mental health and any neurodiversity issues. Actually deal with those issues while they're in residence, help them with their education, help them with all kinds of things like leaving with a pack with a driver's license, some idea so that they can do the basic things in life, and a CVS that they can apply for jobs. Then work with the funo in the community and recommendor around them. These are the extra efforts that we're putting into these young people.
But ultimately what they do with those opportunities is up to them. But we can now say that we're doing everything we possibly can to break that cycle.
But with this pilot, if there is a high reoffending rate, something needs to change, right, Well.
Well, I would just say to you there's a high reoffending rate before this even began, it's pretty much one hundred percent chance of them ending up back in a youth justice facility. What we're doing here is we're trying something new. We're making sure that we're working with them in the community. We're not saying this is a magic bullet. What we're saying is is that this is just another tool in our about to try and help these young
people be the best that they can be. And like I said, what they do with that opportunity is up to them. But we can now say that we are doing this work right.
So it's better to do it and them reoffend than just not do it at all and them reoffend.
That's not what I'm saying. I didn't say it's better to do it and then reoffend. What I'm saying to you is is this gives them a better opportunity to not reoffend. I don't have control of whether these kids reoffend or not. All I have control around is what we put around them to help them to be the best that they can be. Ultimately, as a personal choice of theirs, whether they take up these opportunities.
One of the positives that came out of the pilot review. I remember you as I flicked through. We're saying that, you know, there wasn't actually any child on child violence, which is a very common factor within the youth justice facility. So something we did right and you can't do it. No, I'm talking in the mat throw. I'm not going to talk specifics around individuals that may for.
Specifics around individuals, I'm asking for a rate.
Yeah, And I'm saying to you, I'm not talking about individuals and their personal circumstances for privacy reasons. I'm talking about things and the aggregate to say to you that there were things that we did really well that were actually good learnings that you know, when we compare to how we normally run with justice facilities. And on the other hand, there'll be things that we can improve.
If we move on to another subject.
I'll tell you when I first moved to this country a decade ago, there were three children murdered in quick succession, and I remember being actually quite shocked and asking someone in the office, you know, is this normal for New Zealand? And when they replied yes, I was like, okay. Now ten years later and in the first six days of twenty twenty five, two children were allegedly murdered in.
The first six days of the year. Is this good enough?
The statistics for childdifs that the hands of people who are supposed to love them is not good enough. It hasn't been good enough, and that is something that motivated me in the first place to put my hand up to be in this space to try and break that cycle of harm. So I'm very lucky to have another portfolio other than children's in this space. Around breaking the side of harm and violence within households, because it's really important that we get to the crux of what's actually
causing these issues. And when you look at family harm in this country as actually should be our national shame,
how many people are being hurt and harmed. So one of the government's priorities in this space is to reduce the level of violent crimes and sexual violence crimes by around twenty thousand people is our first targ and so we're really zoning in in that space, what services are best to deal with this space, and looking at how community can come in and really get involved in what that looks like.
And I mean, I don't need to tell you this because you've probably seen all of the statistics because like you said, you've put your hand up for this portfolio. But I wanted to get your reaction to a couple that jumped out to me. As of March twenty twenty one, New Zealand ranked thirty five out of forty one developed
countries for child well being outcomes. Every eighth homicide victim in New zan from the years twenty four to twenty nineteen was a child, and more than two thirds of those were aged under two, and the latest Salvation Army A State of the Nation report shows violence against children is rising, with the number of children hospitalized from assault and neglect in twenty twenty four is the highest in ten years. When you look at those statistics, I mean, what do you think, what do we do? First?
That's a really good question. And then when I first came in, I looked at the strategies that the governments of previous governments had had in place in this space. And there's multiple agencies that have roles to play in this. And we talk about in all of government approach, which sounds good, but unless each agency within government is on the same page, agencies are siloing who are not actually speaking to each other, and so there are gaps there
for people, and people are falling through those gaps. And so my first goal where I wanted to start actually having a look at all these strategy plans making sure that they actually were achieving something. And what I did find was the strategies were massive, there were lots of priorities, far too many. Government was trying to do way too
much and actually doing nothing well. So the first where we start as a government and was actually making sure we prioritize and make sure we get those basics right so that when people walk through a front door of an agency, there is no wrong door, so that every agency is on the right page, and we can get these people in front of who they need to be in front of quicker and faster.
There's been some backlash to the removal of section seven AA from the Tamariki Act, which is no surprise to you. It obligates the agency to ensure it said is the fucker Papa of multi children Muori already fair agencies like OT after a long history of racism. We've heard some horror stories from the likes of the Abuse and Care Inquiry for instance, So why remove something like seven AA.
I have absolutely no objection to fucka Papa being part of the decision making. What I do object to is having a piece of legislation within the Act that obligates the Chief Executive to abide by the treaty of White tonguey and decision making. That's where my objection came from, because what does that actually mean. It's quite vague. It depends on who is interpreting it to how it is rolled out, and I want to make sure we're all
on the same page. And the first thing we need to do when it comes to young people, because according to what you've just said to me, our national shame is that we have so many children in this country dying at the hands of people who are supposed to love and care for them. We need to make sure that their safety is their well being comes first and foremost in every decision we're making. Fucker Papa is part of that, but it shouldn't be the be all and
end all. So this is to clarify so that we're all on the same page when it comes to audoing Atomatiki in their core purpose, which is child protection.
Now, you yourself have been through the system. You shared a lot of your story in your maiden speech, including how child youth and family didn't allow you to move back in with your grandmother, for instance, and told you that no one in your family wanted you. How have your experiences shaped your approach to this portfolio.
I think you current deny that personal experiences of going through the system will shape how you see things and sometimes what you're considering when making decisions. But it also opens your eyes to this system has for far too long had an organization that looks after the organization. We need to start looking at making sure that the organization is focusing on the child's needs and working around the child,
not making the child work around the system. And for far too long, children have been unheard when they're crying out to be safe. And yes, I have spoken about that, and I have spoken about the fact that my grandmother did want me. Section seven AA would not have changed that because she would have been a safe environment to go to. The reasoning behind her not being allowed to care for me was the fact that they thought she was too old. Things have changed since I was in
the care system, thank goodness. But we also need to make sure that there's no unintended consequences where we're ending up with a lot of grandparents who don't have the support around them looking after their grandchildren. So that's a real focus for me this year, making sure that we are looking at how we support kegib and making sure that that's a positive experience and they're not feeling like they are having to fight the system them for every support that they need for their grandkids.
Now, what could we do to make sure that that doesn't happen again, That caregivers like grandparents can take on their grandchildren and be primary caregivers.
Yeah, so I've set this as one of my main priorities this year around making sure that caregivers are satisfied with their support. We've started off with a caregiver survey which we're now working our way through, and we're also looking at different things like are caregivers satisfied with the support of their social workers? Are they satisfied with the support of ordering a timidike, because those can often be two separate issues, but also looking at are you supported
with the tools that you need? Can we get the young person into education fast enough? Are we making decisions closer to the ground so that we're not waiting for Wellington to make a decision about where your young person goes, which takes far too long, and the young people are the only ones to suffer. So these are the things that I'm looking into, and these are the things I'm directing ordering Atomidiki to focus on to make sure that we are doing better in that space.
Very often in your retort, you refer to your ancestry cannot matter more than the safety of a mook upon which is an absolute abhorrent to ticon, it is abhorrent to mindy, It is abhorrent through the way in which we see the world. So it's we're already compromised. Your model is already compromises the value and the and the essence of being looking from the MILDI.
Look, I have to disagree with most of what you've said, and you're entitled to say it, but I actually disagree with most of what You've got a gap acknowledgments.
You don't understand.
Now, you've faced a lot of abuse from other Maori MPs since you've been in parliament. What do you put this down to and how has affected your handling of your portfolios?
Oh? Look, how someone sees me as being a Maori does not affect how I handle my portfolios. That's actually a them problem, not a me problem. If they want to be fixated on whether I'm the right kind of Maori, that's their issue. My job is to come here and make sure my focus is on making the care system work better for our young people so that they can wake up in the morning and know that they're going to be safe and that today is going to be a good day. That's my focus. What others think about
who I am as a Maori. Actually, quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing about it, and they can move on whenever they're ready.
Key we kids and teens are apparently fifty percent more likely to die of abuse than those in Australia. What are we doing wrong and what should we be doing to fix it?
I think it's all of the things that I've mentioned within this interview. But what I would say is government alone can not fix this problem. It's not just up to government to come and fix this issue. Where as a society, we really need to take a really good hard look at ourselves and the way that we deal with this issue. We do tend to turn a blind eye when things are not necessarily right within our families,
within our neighborhoods. And what I would say to people is the more we talk about this topic, which can sometimes be a very uncomfortable topic, and the more we normalize actually calling out this kind of behavior and support people who do call out this kind of behavior, the better we will be as a country.
Former Prime Minister Jasandra A.
Durn once said that she wanted New Zealand to be the best place in the world to raise a child. Now, do you think that New Zealand is the best place in the world to raise a child at the moment?
I think for many people, New Zealand is a wonderful place to raise their child. For me, I made sure that my children didn't follow in the same footsteps as I did. I was determined to make sure that they had stability in their lives when it came to education and when it came to having a house and a roof over the head. And I worked really hard for that. But there are some people and many in this country who do face rather large obstacles to make this a
great place for their children to be raised in. I would say it's a bit above. It can be a wonderful place, but there's room to improve, and there's a massive room to improve when it comes to supporting those young people who don't necessarily have where we don't necessarily have eyes on you.
Thanks for joining us, minister.
Thank you.
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at Enzadhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin, who is also a sound engineer.
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Subscribe to the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.