Kyoda.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The Trump tariff wars are officially on US President Donald Trump's first two targets are Mexico and Canada, imposing twenty five percent tariffs on their products and twenty percent on Chinese imports. These three countries accounted for more than forty percent of imports into the US last year. He's also introduced a twenty five percent tariff on all steel and aluminum products worldwide.
On his social media scide Truth Social, Trump said if the EU doesn't remove a proposed fifty percent tariff on US bourbon, the US will place a two hundred percent tariff on all wines, champagnes and alcoholic products coming out of the EU. New Zealand's Foreign Minister, Winston Peters, is currently in the US. He said is approaching the Trump administration with eyes wide open, and that he's prepared to listen,
hear them out, hear their side of the story. But will that be enough to shift New Zealand out of Trump's firing line. Later on the Front Page, we'll speak to buy New Zealand made Executive director Dane Ambler about whether we've seen any impact here yet. But first, CBC News Senior Parliamentary reporter Jp Tasker is with us from Ottawa, where citizens are actively boycotting US made products in response.
So Jp, give me a little background about the back and forth between Trump and I guess everyone when it comes to tariffs.
Yeah, so Trump essentially feels like the world is ripping off the United States that for too long the United States has, you know, had essentially a tear free relationship with every other country honors, but they don't get that same respect in But it's really nonsense when it comes to Canada, because we've had a ter free relationship with
the United States for decades. We've had a free trade deal since the nineteen eighties, and really all of the goods we trade between the United States and Canada, the two way trade is almost entirely tear free. So when
he talks about Canada, it is essentially bogus. He is lying constantly about us and our trading relationship, and a lot of us in this country are getting absolutely fed up with it and are very frustrated with a country that was for decades really our closest friend, partner, and ally, and a lot of us in this country don't think of them that way anymore. And a lot of it has to do with Donald Trump.
So what's Canada done in response?
Canada has really hit back at the United States. We've slapped some retaliatory tariffs on the US because Donald Trump has put unfair, unjustified, unjustifiable tariffs, as our government calls it, on our goods. So he's put twenty five percent tariffs
on most goods. He's put an extra twenty five percent on stealing aluminum exports, and so Canada has hit back with about sixty billion dollars worth of retaliatory tariffs on American goods, targeting everything from steel and sporting equipment, cast iron, goods, cosmetics, cologne, you name it. It's a long list, and we're trying to essentially make Republican states in particular pay for the actions of Donald Trump. So we're trying to be very
targeted in our approach as we implement these countermeasures. We're trying to make it more difficult for some of the President's supporters in Congress and for some of their constituents and some of the businesses and the workers in those areas, and Canada is essentially saying we're ready to go further and farther if we need to, we will ramp up these retaliatory terrafts. If Trump wants to take us on again in April, as he says he does.
How will the tariffs affect Canada's economy.
Well, the tariffs are absolutely devastating for the Canadian economy because we are so dependent on the United States por trade. So many of the goods that we produce in this country are exported to the US. So if you're making all of these goods twenty five percent more expensive, but essentially prices out a lot of these Canadian goods, it becomes less economically viable for American importers to bring in
Canadian stuff. So a lot of businesses, a lot of jobs are on the line as a result of Trump's attacks, as a result of his trade war, So a lot of people are gearing up for unemployment in this country, frankly, and that's why there's so much anger, there's so much frustration, there's so much fear because we have essentially been dependent on the United States when it comes to trade. Seventy five eighty percent of all of our exports go to that single market, and so there's going to be a
very abrupt period of adjustment. That's going to be pretty ugly, that's not going to be pleasant, and it's going to be very, very unfortunate for us because we have essentially only been wedded to the Americans. We've let a lot of our other relationships atrophy over the years, and we've just been sucked into their vortex. And now a lot of people are questioning whether that was a good idea. So we'll do a Canadian a.
Coffee shop on Vancouver Island and a quiet act of defiance.
Let's do it.
What's beneath the bravado a seeding sense of betrayal.
You know, this this bullying. You know we're a tenth of the size of that country, but we picked no fight, but it just keeps coming to us.
On the top shelf, Alan hides the labels of American made bottles.
Tennessee Wayne Gretzky Cream and it's basically it's just about empty anyway.
Wayne Gretzky Cream. Liqueur wants a Canadian ice hockey hero, now considered a traitor for his support of.
Trump, he's proven that he doesn't even respect our country anymore.
I'm saying there's a push amongst the public to boycott US product. This movement has reached Europe as well. Tesla styles of falling and absent. Online groups are springing up everywhere to help consumers choose non US items. What have you heard in saying on the ground In Canada.
There's a huge movement to stop buying American products. It is pretty remarkable. I mean every time you go to the grocery store, you see people picking up goods and looking at where was this made? If it says made in America, it gets put back on the shelf. People are there's a coordinating effort not to buy American products right now. And I mean there's a Facebook group online Chelsea for example. It has one point three million members alone and there's one group and it's all about how
to buy Canadian and how to avoid American. So people are absolutely voting with their wallet right now and making the decision to buy Canadian or buy from other countries, as long as it's not the United States, that's the main that's the main factor people are considering right now. And we know it's working grocers. The major grocers in the country are reporting that sales are down dramatically for
US goods. They're bringing in a lot more products from countries that we don't normally buy from, you know, Peru, Israel, other places, Morocco, South America, places where we traditionally don't have much of a trading relationship at all. Now we're bringing in their oranges, in their nuts, and their grocery goods. And it's all because Canadians are diametrically opposed. Many of them are diametrically opposed of buying anything from south of the border.
I see. Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi has ruled out reciprocal tariffs on the US after Trump ruled out exemptions for any countries, calling Trump's move entirely unjustified, but he said imposing these reciprocal tariffs would only push prices up for Australian consumers and spur inflation. Now is there a worry in Canada that pushback could do the same.
There is a concern, but it really is a minority voice right now. The country is completely behind doing whatever we can to make the Americans pay for this situation. So people are not thinking about their pocketbook right now. They really think it's in the best interests of the country to push back, to not take Trump and his nonsense, and to do whatever we can to try and make it clear to him and other people in his administration, other people in Congress that Canada will not just roll
over when he tries to come for us economically. Most people are unified. Polls suggest eighty ninety percent of Canadians are completely in favor of retaliatory measures. And the reason why they are is we've been down this road before, Chelsea. If you remember, Trump slapped tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum in his first term and it was very damaging at the time, and Canada hit back with retaliatory tariffs and that's part of the reason why he ultimately dropped
those tariffs in the first term. So we have a lot of experience with his trade nonsense, and what's worked for us in the past is making the Americans pay. If there's no pain point for the Americans, why would they ever drop their tariffs. That's sort of the reasoning from the federal government, and that's why they're going this route again now.
When you said Canada po kind of pigeonholed in having all of its trade in one place. I mean that hit home because New Zealand is actually in the midst of diversifying its trade deals because one of our biggest trade partners is China. Our Prime minister is solely focused on the likes of India and Southeast Asia. I saw Alberta Premier Danielle Smith said her province is looking for customers beyond the US, kind of in Asia and Europe. Who could Canada's biggest trading partners become.
Well well, Canada is very keen to cozy up to the United Kingdom and frankly Australia and New Zealand. There is this push to kind of rebuild Commonwealth ties and to kind of bring you know, the Commonwealth cousins back together again. The government just had a huge trade mission
to Australia. Our Foreign Minister was just in the UK saying we need the UK more than ever and the UK, I think is receptive to that, in part because they've been through Braxit, they've been through some economic convulsions with Europe. They're also looking for trade partners. We're about to sign a free trade deal with the UK. I mean, these are some of the ways that we can bolster our
economic links to other countries. We're talking about South Korea too, in Japan, some of the major Asian markets, especially as it relates to energy. As you point out, they's talk about building more pipelines to tide water to get more of our abundant oil to other markets, but principally in Asia. But yeah, the problem is we're so geographically tied to the United States. I mean, ninety percent of our population lives within one hundred and sixty kilometers of the US border.
So it's going to be very difficult for US to pivot from being so reliant for so long on one customer. And frankly, will never be able to replace the US. None of these other countries, no offense to them, great friends and partners and allies, will never be able to replace the economically dominant force that is the United States,
especially when we live right next to them. So it's going to be tough, but we will strategically, the government says, reach out, make alliances with other countries that could take some of our goods if the US doesn't want them anymore.
Will you be traveling to the States anytime soon.
Not ever.
I wouldn't go over the border again.
Unfortunately things have changed in the States and I'm happy to spend most of my holidays here in Canada.
Yes, I'm starting to love Mexico because our money's not good, so you might as well stay south of the border.
Down Mexico way. Good voice, huh.
I read on Forbes that last month, the number of Canadians taking road trips into the US, representing the majority of Canadians who visit the US, dropped by twenty three percent compared to February twenty twenty four, according to data from Statistics Canada, while Canadian air travel to the US was down by two point four percent of the same period. What's it like anecdotally? Are you seeing less Canadians choosing the US as a travel destination now?
So many Canadians are saying, you know, I am not going to the United States right now. It is not happening. It is not on. And you know that's a big thing because, as I said, we live so close to the border. So many of us, it's very easy to go to the United States. It's just a very quick day trip in many instances. So many Canadians own property in the state of Florida, in Arizona and California. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of Canadians own property in the US.
So there's a lot of traffic back and forth, and so it is a big deal to see those numbers drop as they have, especially right now in our winter. You know, it's pretty cold in Canada in March, and so to see those numbers drop means there are fewer people going to sunnier climbs in the southern United States. And I mean that really means for a serious I guess because so many of us I want to get out of here when it's so cold, But people are saying,
enough is enough. We don't want to go to Trump's America. We don't want to be in the United States when so much of this rhetoric is flying around, when he's threatening our sovereignty, when he's taunting us with the fifty first state talk. Is a very dramatic shift. It's truly remarkable to see how we have gone from being so close to being really in many respects enemies.
What do you reckon the next play is?
I think Canada will continue to press ahead with these retaliatory tariffs, that there could be an escalation. I mean, we have seen some of our provincial leaders float the idea of holding back energy. We export a ton of energy to the United States, whether it's oil, natural gas,
or hydro electricity. There's a potential to play that sort of trump card, if you will, and try and force them to back down on some of their more aggressive economic measures by sort of using our energy as a way to corral them into dropping their actions against US. I mean, I also think that frankly, they could get to the point where it just gets even uglier, you know, and then there is really a break, and then it's
much more difficult to come back together. So I think the government, the federal government here in Ottawa, is doing its best to try and give Trump some off ramps, to give him the chance to dial this back, to maybe give him a couple wins, but not all that he wants, and that might be a possibility. We have a new prime minister that is going to be sworn
in on Friday. He was just elected in a Liberal Party election on Sunday, and he has been pretty forceful about the United States, saying that we can't really consider them an ally anymore. But he has also talked about the possibility of bringing this to a close. So there's a chance things get a lot worse before they get better, and that's how I suspect it will be.
Thanks for joining us JP.
Thank you so much, Chelsea. I appreciate you having.
The Canada isn't the only country sidelining American products at the moment, so could we see the same happen here. We put this to the executive director of Buy New Zealand made Dane Ambler. Dane, do you think Kewe's might start boycotting American products along with the Canadians?
I think it's probably too early to tell. It's still really, you know, up in the air as to what Trump's tariffs actually mean for New Zealand. So I think we need to wait a while for the dust to settle and see what it means for us as a country.
But obviously, if you look around the world, you know, even to Australia, Urban Easy came out last week saying that you know, the next budget would have like an Australian made focus, and there's this real sense of economic nationalism sort of sweeping through Canada and Australia and other countries. So yeah, we'll see what happens over the next few weeks.
I know people were really behind supporting local businesses, especially during COVID and lockdowns and keeping the economy alive that kind of thing. Are we still seeing that attitude here or has it kind of tape it off a bit?
Yeah? Absolutely, We've seen considerable momentum since COVID. It probably has taped off a little bit. But to be honest with you, you know, the world's changed a lot, and a lot of businesses that we've spoken to have made quite significant changes and already pulled out of those unreliable supply chains and started to bring things closer to home.
So I think, you know, with the ongoing sort of geopolitical tensions that are happening in the world at the moment, and the lack of control that businesses have over the costs and the risks associated with manufacturing overseas, we're just going to see more and more companies bringing manufacturing closer
to home. I think another really interesting element of it is what happens with China and Taiwan over the next couple of years, and if China does decide to make moves there, you know, as a country we're so reliant on and what does that mean for the future of manufacturing for New Zealm businesses as well.
So you've seen a lot of New Zealand businesses bring manufacturing back on on shore.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we are seeing a bit of a trend towards coming home and that was really sparked through the COVID period when shipping costs surged and there were massive, lengthy delays and disruptions. So companies are starting to think about it, you know, probably not as many as we'd like to see, but they are thinking about it.
Yes, do we import much from the US that could be easily boycotted anyway?
Yeah, you know, the two way trade with America is quite significant. You know, we you know, most importantly, send a lot of products over there. So there's a lot of agricultural and food product exports. You know, you've got meat, dairy, wine, and all of these industries are particularly vulnerable to tariff. So we do do a lot of trade with the US and we are you know, quite reliant on them as a trading partner.
I've seen stories about apps popping up in Europe and Facebook groups in Canada to help people buy locally grown and made products. Is there something similar people can use in New Zealand.
We don't have anything like that in New Zealand, but you know, you can keep an eye for, you know, the made in New Zealand logo. It's on you know, one thousand and four hundred small businesses products throughout the country. I do think, you know, while you know pro localization, we also have to be quite realistic about this. And you know, New Zealand is a trading nation. Exports comprise about a quarter of our GDP and they's only going
to grow in coming years. So I think we also have to be realistic about, you know, what we can buy locally and what we can't as well.
What are some easy swaps that can be made when it comes to New Zealand made. If I go to the shops and I usually buy one thing, what's something that I can easily just chuck my cart that's actually from New Zealand.
Honestly, we can make pretty much anything in New Zealand. Not cars obviously, but if you go to the supermarket, there's often a trade off between a New Zealand made and an overseas made products, especially in the food and beverage sector, and also when you start getting through to larger items like furniture and bedding and things like that, often the cost to import something like that is so significant and the shipping costs is so much that you're
best to buy local anyway. So there's a whole range of products, just keep an eye out for the ones that are signaling that they are made in New Zealand.
Thanks for joining us, Dane, Thank you so much.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or where you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.