Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Anti Semitic sentiment has risen globally since the war in Gaza began, including in our own part of the world. A man has been charged after a Melbourne synagogue was set a light last Friday. The alleged anti Semitic attack has seen the country's Home Affairs Minister describe it as an attack
on Australia. The attacks prompted the country's Labor Party to push for reforming the school curriculum to teach children about antisemitism. But these kind of anti Jewish attitudes aren't reserved for our trans Tasman neighbors. An Enzi Jewish Council report last year found that in the twelve months from October seven, twenty twenty three, there were two hundred and twenty seven and recorded anti Semitic incidents, a jump from one hundred and sixty six in the eight and a half years prior.
So.
How has the Gaza conflict exacerbated these tensions and how can the Jewish faith be separated from the actions of the State of Israel today? On the front page. Holocaust Center of New Zealand chair Deborah Hart joins us to discuss the rise of antisemitism here and how we might be able to combat it. Deborah, what do you make of the alleged arson attack on a Melbourne synagogue at the weekend.
Well, there's been increasing levels of anti Semitism end violent action aimed at Jewish people and institutions in Australia, culminating on Friday, with actually three separate but aligned incidents, the fire bombing of a synagogue, the fire bombing and vandalism of a business, and some anti masked extremist terrorizing diners at an Israeli owned restaurant, and miss Norm chanting death to the IDF. This comes after numerous incidents of jew hatred,
fire bombings, hatefield rhetoric and threats of violence. So it's actually, unfortunately not surpriser.
I mean, this is the same city where we saw a neo Nazi protest out in the open. It seems like this type of hate has been bubbling away at the surface there for some time now.
Yes, and we shouldn't feel too high and mighty ourselves because there's been skyrocketing levels of jew hatred in this country as well, and really pretty nasty incidents happening here. It's very very similar tracks that we're seeing in Australia to what we're seeing here as well. We've see skyrocketing levels of anti Semitism, particularly since the seventh October, but it was increasing prior to that time as well.
What are some of the types of abuse you've seen against the Jewish community here in New Zealand?
Gosh, how long have you got at the Holocaust Center of New Zealand. We did a survey about this time last year. Actually eighty percent of parents who answered see their children had suffered anti Semitic incidents at school. What does that look like? Well, we're dealing with a teacher who demanded of a three year old in a day care to answer if he was Israeli and then man handled him three times. A Jewish student was given a
haih Hitler salute and punched in the face. A Jewish child's uniform was covered in anti Semitic slogans and symbols. These are all separate attacks. A Jewish child was repeatedly harassed, pushed to the ground, and his kippa the skull cat
knocked off his head and told he can't wear that here. Worse, worse awful in universities, avert support for Humus, which is a terrorist organization named such by the New Zealand government, repeated calls to globalize the into Fada, campaigns at universities to rid students and academics of Jews who support Israel's right to exist. We've had a Jewish family had an anti Semitic campaign targeted at all of their neighbors. We've had at the Holocaust Center of New Zealand. Like many
Jewish institutions, we regularly receive hate mail. We have had the graffiti was it last month in Wellington that stated I hated Jews before it was called. There was an assault against an Israeli tourists last month. There's been an assault at a vigil for the hostages held in Gaza. I mean, I can go on and on and on, you know, and it includes Jewish businesses being doped, boycotted and attacked, and demands of artists Gewish artists in museums and musicians and artists to condem as well if they
want to keep their exhibitions in these gigs. I mean it is comprehensive. It runs the gamut of violent assaults to hateful retruck.
The punk band Bob Villan have said that they are being targeted for speaking up after their comments during a Glastonbury show were branded anti Semitic, and that they now face a police investigation. The Rab Duo led an anti Israeli military chant during their Glastonbury set at the weekend. The BBC has been criticized for continuing to show the
live stream of the performance on Saturday. In a statement, the band said, today a good many people would have you believe a punk band is the number one threat to world peace. Last week it was a Palestine pressure group. The week before that it was another band. Where not for the death of Jews, Arabs or any other race or group of people, Where for the dismantling of a violent treat machine.
I mean a lot of this sentiment against Israel and the IDF has come from pro Palestinian protesters or those opposed to what's happened or happening in Gaza. And of course the events of October seven were horrific and inexcusable. The conflict over the last two years in Gaza has been extremely violent, as well, there's no denying that, and there have been reports of residents being shot and killed while trying to reach aid, children starving, injured unable to
be treated. But is it right to say that the actions of IDF are not indicative of the feelings of all Jewish people, just the same as the actions of har Mass can't be blamed on all Palestinians.
Yeah. Look, and Israel as a sovereign nation state, it's government. It does what its government is going to do. Jewish New Zealanders are not responsible for the actions of a foreign nation state. And Jewish people have all kinds of feelings about what Israel is doing. But it's not anti submitic to criticize Israel. But it is anti submitic to make Jewish people here responsible somehow for the actions of the state of Israel. And we don't seem to do that of any other group of people.
Well, look at the Muslim faith after nine to eleven.
Yes, I mean, they also came in for quite a barrage, and you know that's not right either. But you know, you know, we have a war between Russia and Ukraine. Nobody seems to be going down to the local Russian Orthodox church and trying to set it light. We're not making Russian Orthodox people responsible for gosh, how many people have been killed in that war, well over one hundred
and fifty thousand people. They're not responsible for it. Syrian people here aren't responsible for Syria killing over six hundred thousand of its own citizens in its civil war. You know, you can have all kinds of views about Israel, and you can feel a great deal of empathy and sympathy for innocent Palestinian people who have been caught up in this dreadful, dreadful war. Who of us doesn't an ounce of empathy feel for, you know, innocent people who have
been maimed and killed in this war. It's awful. But that doesn't mean that you make Jewish people here responsible, and it doesn't mean that you call for violent up risings here in New Zealand.
Do you worry about the general backlash towards different religions and faith at the moment, I'm thinking of that Destiny Church. Brian Tarmaki led protest down Queen Street the other week where they burned flags and screamed about Christian values.
Yes, we seem to be in a period of binary thinking. Good and evil and an inability to have tolerance for other points of view. I mean you can hold nuanced views. You can in relation to the Palestinians and Israel. You can feel great empathy for Palestinians whilst also feeling empathy for the Jewish community. Here. You can think that Israel has a right to defend itself whilst not liking what
it's doing. Things to do with aid. You can revere Christianity and it bear your faith without denigrating people of other faiths. It doesn't have to be in either or, And we're just seeing the inability for us to talk with one another, to understand one another, and to tolerate littlone cherish other belief systems.
What would you like to see done by the government or leaders to try and curb some of the sentiment.
Well, I think it's not just government. We all have a responsibility here, you know, I'd say too. You know we've seen protests in our street ostensibly to support Palestinians. Well, it doesn't bring peace to the world or support Palestinians to have a sign saying globalize the Intero Fada. I mean, think about what that is. It is a making violent terrorism go worldwide. It doesn't help Palestinians to say glory
to the resistance. If you want to see peace in the world, including in the Middle East or Gaza, don't support hatred. Those who chann't for death are not peace activists. So I'd say to those people, don't stand with those signs and don't stand beside those signs. And if you truly want peace in Gaza, call for an end to the war, call for the disarming of Hamas and the release of all the hostages. So that's what I say to them. We need to protect our Jewish communities. They
are under enormous threat at the moment. We need police to take the threats seriously, and I question whether they are at the moment. And leaders need to call out anti Semitism and other forms of hatred and not stoke it. It's not just a government. It's not just for the government. They have their place, but you know, we all need to be bringing the temperature down and acting, acting in the interests of peace and social cohesion here in New Zealand.
Do you think that we should have continued, perhaps with the hate speech laws that the Labour government proposed, but they were subsequently dropped.
Obviously, you know, I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure that banning hateful speech has the kind of desired effect that we want it to have. I think there is something to the argument that at least you can you know, you can see it, and you can you can counter it, you know where it comes from when it's out there. You know, I'm not sure that a hate speech law would have added terribly much to the
equation in the time that we're seeing now. I mean, after all, you know, I know of an incident that in front of police, in front of police, a protester screamed at a Jewish woman, I am going to kill you. I'm going to kill you, you fucking Jewish bitch. He was restrained by police, He was physically restrained by police, and they took no further steps against him. Despite a complaint, and despite having witnessed that threat of violence, he did nothing.
They did nothing. So you know, we have rules at our box that police are not actually utilizing, and they and they should and I think, you know, when you try and shut down speech, it's it's that that question of who's the arbiter of what speeks you allow and what speak to you you don't allow. It's it's pretty difficult, isn't it. Certainly some of the things that we have been seeing on the streets of New Zealand is terribly worrying,
and they do stoke hatred of Jewish people. But with the hate speech laws are the answer, I'm not so sure, a.
Semi you anti.
Anti racist? Rue?
Are there any key facts that you'd want protesters or people to know, the differences perhaps between Israel and the IDF and your regular Jewish neighbor, because do you think that the lines are blurred in a sense of you're Jewish, you must be supporting Israel and all of its actions.
Well, the first thing to say is that teos, like everyone else, have the right to support whatever they please. But I do think there is a blurring of lines. I think if you ask most Jewish people in New Zealand whether they support the right of Israel to exist, they would say yes, just like our government does. And
it's across party lines. Like governments and national led governments have supported the right of Israel to exist, but they would have many different opinions about what Israel is doing. And you know, there is a We're very well known saying in the Jewish community, and that is too Jews three opinions. There are lots of different different opinions within the Jewish community. But Jewish people in New Zealand do not They do not vote in the Israeli elections. They
are not part of the Israeli government. They are not responsible for what the Israeli government does. And just because people support the state of Israel to exist does not mean that Jewish people get to be responsible in some way for the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF. They are not one in the same things. Thing to say is a bit of empathy in humanity here most
Jewish people. I don't know any Jewish person who doesn't have enormous empathy for innocent Palestinian people who have been adversely affected in the most profound ways by this war. But there's another side to the coin, you know, they also know lots of people who have been terribly impacted by this war in Israel. There are Jewish people in New Zealand who have family and friends who are still
held hostage in Gaza. There are Jewish people in New Zealand whose family members have been killed in the attacks on the seventh of October. Whose families my own included, who have been who have spent hours and hours in bunkers sheltering from missiles, both since the seventh of October and before. So you know, we we you know, as a community, we we do feel punch drunk because we you know, we we are worried for our family and
our friends. We worry for for Palestinian people who have been so profoundly affected by this war, and we're having to combat the real the real life are due hatred in New Zealand, a country that we are citizens of and we feel is our home. So it is a tremendously difficult time for Jewish people living in New Zealand.
And I just say too to those who are ramping up this hatred, to take pause and to take more care and what you say and what you do, and who you will stand beside and what you will stand beside, because you know, we can see the effects of it, the real life effects is impacting the Jewish community. And you know, if you think to yourself, well on not Jewish, it doesn't affect me. It's about who we are as a society. And you let one hatred grow, or you'll
let other hatreds grow in due course. So I think it's a very worrying time for New Zealand and New Zealanders.
Thanks for joining us, Deborah.
Go well, Chelsea.
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.