Yoda.
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a summer special of The Front Page, The Enzid Herald's.
Daily news podcast.
While the Front Page is on summer break, we're taking a look back at some of the biggest news stories and top rated episodes from the podcast in twenty twenty four.
New episodes will.
Return on January thirteenth. Once it came into power, the coalition government signaled everything's on the table when it comes to a major shakeup of New Zealand's gun laws. The world praised us when we took swift action following the christ Church terror attack banning semi automatic firearms and assault rifles, but now a coalition agreement between National and ACT could see semi automatics make a return to gun range. Various stages of reform are currently being worked through by politicians
in the US. April twenty marked twenty five years since the Columbine High School massacre, where two teenagers murdered twelve students and a teacher. Fifteen year old Daniel Mauser was one of those killed in the school's library. Daniel's father, Tom has spent the last twenty five years advocating for gun control in America, and he joined us on the front page to discuss why New Zealand shouldn't be complacent when it comes to firearms.
Tom, For New Zealanders who might not know what the Columbine High School massacre is, are you able to give us a brief run through on what actually happened that day?
But Mainstein Daniel was one of the victims of Columbine, and what happened in that tragedy was that two students plotted to kill as many students as they could at the school. They planted two bombs in the cafeteria and fortunately they didn't explode, but the two students that were outside with guns and started shooting students and then moved inside the school and shot dead ten students that were in the school library, and my son was one of the victims there, and a total of twelve students and
one teacher were killed. And then the shooters, when they realized that they were not going to get out of that,
they killed themselves. And that's what really got me involved in the issue, and in particularly it was the fact that three of the guns that were used by the shooters were obtained through a loophole in our gun laws, and just two weeks before the Columbine tragedy, my son asked me if I feel that there were loopholes in that national law that requires that you go through a background check by a gun, And then two weeks later he was killed with a gun that was purchased through
one of those loopholes. So that's what really got me involved in this. I felt that I had to help close those loopholes in honor of my son.
On April twentieth, nineteen ninety nine, two students called me needed months of planning by donning.
Black trench coats and attacking their school.
My secretary comes in and yells that there had been a report of gunfire and bombs exploring, and so I ran out of my office saw a gunman coming towards me. I remember hearing gunfire, and I remember glass breaking behind me.
I know it's been twenty five years since that day. I can't even imagine what it felt for you as a father, First off, hearing that there had been an event at the high school that your son attended.
Can you tell me how was that day for you?
It was really a horrific day. Somebody at work I was trying to leave the office to go to a conference and somebody in the office said, you know, do you have any children that go to Columbine High School? I said yes. I said, well you should come into the conference room and watch television. There's something happening there. I watched it as the story unfolded, but I just
didn't think that anything would happen to my son. I thought, well, there's two thousand students in the school, what are the chances and my son wouldn't be in any kind of trouble. I just feeling frankly, wasn't worried. And then you know, as the day went on and we weren't getting any work from my son, then I started getting more concerned. And then as the day went on we weren't getting any updates. The police said just wait, we'll be in touch with you. And we went to bed, not knowing
if he was one of the victims or not. And it wasn't really until noon the next day, twenty four hours later, that we actually finally got official work that he was one of the victims.
It was just terrific, and I know that Columbine.
I mean, it was just such a wake up call for America. And the rest of the world. Really when it came to gun law reforms, how is that day shaped your work towards greater recognition for gun law reform, and how is that persuaded of at the last twenty five years.
You know, I think the key was that, you know, it wasn't the first school shooting in America, but it was a very high profile one because of how many students were killed, the fact that there was a lot of video of things as they were happening that have
happened in white, middle class America in the suburbs. But I think the fact that three of those four guns were purchased through that gun show loopol we called the gun show loophole that allowed these two young boys to go to a gun show and by these three guns using a friend who was eighteen years old, with no background check, no paperwork, no questions asked. You know, we were able to say to the people Colorado, does that
make sense? I shouldn't everybody who goes to a gun show have to pass a background check in order to get a firearm? And you know, we put it to a vote of the people. Our state legislature wouldn't cass a bill that would close that loophole. So I was a lobbyist for that year working on that issue. I left my job for a year and lobbied, and when they wouldn't close that loophole, we took it to a vote to the people. You can do that here in Colorado. You can pass a law by a vote to the people.
And seventy percent of the people and who voted said yes, close that loophole. So I think it really kind of showed that if you put something reasonable before the people, in a gun restriction, they'll pass it, and they'll do it when our own elected officials wouldn't do it. I think that was the big lesson.
One year ago this month, Save Colorado was born, saying alternatives to the firearms epidemic we have witnessed here in Colorado, the extent to which that epidemic can spread, the devastation it can cause, keep our children safe, close the gun show loophole.
Any one really own semi automatic weapons?
Well, most firearms to they are semi automatic. I think it's a question of the ones that are the assault weapons. I mean, most handguns these days are semi automatic. I think the bigger issue is the assault weapons that are sorry rifles, and also high capacity magazines, because you can have a handgun that has a high capacity magazine, and that's especially a problem because you can fire off so many bullets before you have to switch magazines, and it allows you to get an awful lot of shots off
in a very short period of time. And those are the things I think are the big problems, the assault rifles and the high capacity magazines.
Of course, you may know what happened here in New Zealand the.
Christ Church terror attack.
What did you make of the government's gun law reforms after that attack?
I thought it was a very very heroic act that people really reacted to something instead of just doing nothing, as generally has happened in this country after these tragedies. I certainly have to keep it in perspective that you don't have something like we have. You don't have a Second Amendment that says, you know, you have a right to bear arms. We couldn't do in this country what you could do unless we changed our constitution, our Bill of rights, and that's just not going to happen in
the United States. But the way that New Zealand reacted, as did Australia after its great tragedy in Tasmania was the way of people saying, we who want to live like this, enough is enough. I think it was a very inspiring act that was taken.
And our coalition government here is considering bringing back semi automatics, potentially making them return to gun ranges. But the issue here I see is that the christ Church terrorist was vetted and passed and used those semi automatics at a gun range. Oh yeah, So what would you say to politicians potentially looking at repealing our gun laws here?
I would say, consider what the very thing that you just told me about that shooter. I know there was a terrible tragedy in Germany where they also have pretty tight laws and it's mostly for hunters, and you know once who shoot at the range, and the same thing happened there. The young man had that license and still went on a killing spree. And I think what I would say to them is, you know, I understand that
there are people who have fun firing these weapons. I understand that I've heard that from a number of people. But we have to get beyond fund and we really have to consider the danger. We really have to consider the danger that things can really get out of hand.
The attacker on fifteen match took a significant number of lives using primarily two guns. They were assault rifles and they were purchased legally on an a category unlicensed the standard license held by gun owners in New Zealand. The capacity of these assault rifles was then enhanced using duty plus round magazines, essentially turning them into military style semi automatic weapons. While the modification of these guns was illegal, it was done easily through a simple online purchase.
And you bring up a good point with the magazines as well. I know that the ones that the christ Church terrorists use, for example, buying the magazine and then buying the guns separately wasn't illegal, but putting them together was.
But what's stopping someone from putting them together?
Loopholes? Loopholes, loopholes. That's often what killers do is they find loopholes in our laws and if you're going to give them an opening, they're going to take it. And I think we have to do all we can to close those loopholes.
If someone's questioning why they can't own semi automatics or have larger magazines, or they argue that they're only using them like on farms or in gun rangers. I mean, if you could sit down with someone who's arguing to lessen gun laws in New Zealand, what would you say to them?
First of all, I'd have to say if I was somebody who was living out on a farm or a ranch, I would not blame them for having a firearm. I won't condemn them for doing that, so long is it something like a hunting type rifle, an appropriate rifle for that setting you to shoot wild animals, or something like that. When it comes to especially handguns, I think it's important for people to keep in mind that the risk of harm in the household is far, far greater when you
have a firearm in the household. That could be suicide, It could be accident, it could be a spouse argument, any number of things that can happen. That really kind of goes against those who say, well, I just I need it for self protect I would assume that you have an advantage in New Zealand and that you have much lower gun ownership than we do in the United States. Here, it's tough to argue against self protection when you have
so many firearms. But if you don't have a lot of firearms, why worse in the situation by encouraging more gun ownership.
Those firearms are already here. In fact, we have six six hundred people who have endorsements to be in possession of those firearms. So there's nothing new here. What we will be looking to do is ensure that we have a regulatory reform that increases compliance with the legislation and reduces regulatory burdens on some and that those that are laura abiding, that have been deemed to be fit and proper by New Zealand police are given the chance to partake and what is a normal way of life.
New Zealand's gun laws.
As part of the Arms Act, there was the introduction of a gun registry and gun owners felt really that they're against a gun registry and they felt that, look, criminals aren't going to be registering their guns anyway.
Is that a kind of argument that you've heard over there as well?
Oh yeah, oh yes, there's a lot of arguments against registration. But what we have found, for example, is that if you register the firearm and you license any sellers, then that helps keep down the black market sale. It doesn't eliminate it, you know, completely, nothing will completely eliminate it. But if you don't have some of those kinds of steps in place, then you're just encouraging a black market. Then.
I think the main issue over here is the potential of bringing back the semi automatic firearms that the christ Church terrorists used, and there's an argument here that there's just no reason to bring those back, And of course the Muslim community here in New Zealand have been pleading with the government not to take these actions because of
course of the tragedy that happened here. In terms of yourself, you've lost, of course your son in a similar tragedy of school shooting, but a similar tragedy nonetheless involving firearms. Do you wish people would listen to you more in terms of what guns have the potential to do?
Oh? Sure, That's a key thing for me, and I think that's why I'm resented by some people who are the gun rights activists, because I remind people that it can be anybody. I'm just an ordinary person who went through this pain. I recognize there are a lot of people who go through this kind of tragedy and have trouble speaking out. Because my son spoke out, I thought I had to also, So that's my inspiration, and I remind people this can happen to you. If you think
this can happen to you, you're foolish. I've had quite a few people so I've met in course of my work who's lost a loved one say to me, I wish I had been involved in this issue earlier like you, but I never thought of what happened to me. I'm a reminder that it can happen to anybody, and we have to do something. Doing nothing won't solve our problem. Going backwards, as some people in New Zealand are considering, will do nothing probably make things worse.
You've been doing your work for twenty five years now, so you're a wealth of knowledge. Is there anything that you would want to pass on to the New Zealand public when it comes to gun law reforms and legislation and how people feel about it.
I think my main message would be, don't let yourself become like the United States. You know, a lot of this issue, usually as much as it's sometimes presented as issue of rights and freedoms, really a lot of it is about money. You know, many of the people who are pushing the issue of loosening gun laws. It's about money for them, it's sales, and we have to get beyond that. We have to look at the impact on people.
And it must be so difficult for you especially.
I know we've got televisions at work and we look up at the international news and we see something like another mass shooting in the US. There have been so many more school shootings as well in the past twenty five years. It just must be heartbreaking to you that there's been little to no change in people's views against gun laws despite this happening. I mean, must the US must know that the rest of the world is just going what is happening?
We do and people on my side of the issue see it and understand it, as people on the opposite side of this issue just don't see it, or they have their excuses why they say, oh, we're just different, or oh it's not as bad as you say. It's really discouraging. It's at least been encouraging that in Colorado, my state, we've been able to do something, but very frustrating that at the national level so little has been done.
We did see a few gun laws actually passed at the national level two years ago but it was the first time in thirty years that we had anything significant, and it was only after this tragedy that happened in the state of Texas, you know, where a lot of elementary school students were killed, that finally they were able to get something past. It shouldn't take that much.
Thanks for joining us, Tom. That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzed Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patty Fox.
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
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