Top Pro Golf Storylines for 2025 & TGL Preview

I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

And when I find my.

Ball in a frid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of.

The hump course.

Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson. Uh, welcome to the new year. Welcome to twenty twenty five. I've got an exciting episode. I'm joined by Gabby herse Egg, a staff writer at The Athletic, to talk about twenty twenty five in pro golf. And I'm also joined on the back half with by Joseph LaMagna and PJ Clark, our producer and Joseph one of our creators here at Fridagg Golf, to talk about TGL. That's barreling down. Just a quick

That's a great question, Andy, I sometimes am, and sometimes I'm not. I last year, my New Year's resolution mainly was to become a morning person, and it worked for about the first three months of the year and we taper it off back into my normal ways of being a night ol. So that's kind of the farthest I go with New Year's resolutions, is like little things like that. But yeah, not really a resolution person. What about you?

You know, I would say that I'm relatively unsuccessful. My my biggest success in recent years is I just full stop a full stopped soda. Yeah. I think I've had like one or two sodas in the last two years.

That's incredible.

I just yeah, I just I just was like, I'm done with this and I just ended it. So I don't know if what I'm gonna do this year. I've I think I might have broken a rib a couple of weeks ago.

Oh no, And are you okay?

Yeah?

Yeah, I've been all right. It's just like a pain in the ass because you can't do anything yeah important. Yeah, like you can't do like so you can't like deep brief deep deeply breathe, which is crazy.

Yeah, breathing, it's a good one.

So anyways, walking a lot, and I've really enjoyed that. I've like gone for like our walks, but like you can do stuff while you walk. You know, you can listen like I've been listening to podcasts. You could have phone calls. So I think that I think that's what I'm going to do next year, is maybe incorporate some work schedule into walks.

I think that's a great idea.

I love it.

That might be that might be the new Year's resolution.

I'm really jealous of the soda movement of yours though, because I have a huge sweet tooth and I would never be able to give up my soda.

Well, I just thought about, like the soda thing. It just like when I thought ought about it, it was like, I never feel good after I drink one. Okay, there's better. I like the caffeine of it, but there's better ways to get caffeine, you know. I just have an espresso shot, right. And then I was like, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna use the sugar, I'd rather like, like, there are way better uses of sugar. Con totally like ice cream cookies like these are far superior delivery methods of sugar.

I promise I just eat all of it.

It's I think that's a problem for almost all of us. Like I don't understand these people that have self control, you know, No, I don't get it. So anyways, small step. I looked at I looked at soda and just said, I'm done with this and it's worked out well. Like no diet soda, no nothing, you know. I feel like carbonated water is the other thing, like the like your Lacroix Nick sees of the world. That helps a ton too, because sometimes you just need that.

Just maybe I should get into that a little more. Maybe I'll maybe I'll start. I'm taking inspiration right now. Andy, I really appreciate that.

Yeah, yeah, all right. We I can't believe that it's not even the turn of the new year. It's the thirtieth when we're recording this and we have PGA Tour Golf in like three days.

No, it's crazy.

It feels like this should be one week later than it is. But we're going to start. We're starting the year, so we've got it kicks off on January second. So I wanted to do a little season preview kind of Five things are our major championship format, but for the season five Things we're watching. I will let you start here. What's the the first or the first thing that you're you're you want to talk about with the twenty twenty

Tour, got it, I have one that doesn't relate to men's golf.

So okay, maybe how about twenty twenty five golf.

Freak perfect, perfect, Okay, let's see where we should start. I am going to start with the PGA Tour PIF deal and the incoming Trump administration and everything that could come with that. Do you want me to elaborate or would you like to respond?

I will just say that I purposely kept this off because I figured i'd have it on right.

I figured that too.

I would love to hear what you're thinking about it.

Yes, I am thinking that this deal is imminent. I think that after Inauguration Day we are probably going to hear talks ramp up a lot. I spoke to you earlier this fall, Andy about my article on the election and how it could impact the completion of the PJ Tour PIFF deal, and it looks like everything that's unfolded over the past three months, like all signs are pointing

So it seems like it's you know, it's a very small percentage of the population, but it's a percentage of the population that incoming President Trump clearly cares about his golf because he's a big golfer, owns golf properties. But he it seems like it's like a logical like win on the board, kind of like first couple of weeks of in office, like what I got done.

I really really wouldn't be surprised. Like he played golf with jam Onahan, he invited y'aser to the UFC fight, Like there are things happening. We can all see it. It's just a matter of time now, I think.

So I think like one of the things that I wonder about is like, what if it's just a financial deal, And if it's just a financial deal, are we just in the same spot and he does Live continue to pick off players, Like is that is that going to be a thing because like you know, like the other aspect of this is Fox and the deal, and this is one of my things, so we can just wrap this all in here. I anticipate to talk Live PGA

Away, That's exactly what I was going to say.

Yeah, and then you have this deal that's going to that seems eminent, it seems like it's going to happen. But to me, it makes me feel like it's only a financial deal and I could be wrong.

No, I feel I feel like I feel like all signs are kind of pointing to that in a way. Like and when I heard about the Fox deal initially, I was still just like, is it really going to get casual sports fans to watch it more? Because the first four events of the year are happening in the middle of the night in the US, right yeah, And like so maybe it could be on Big Fox, but

Yeah, I think at a minimum. And who knows, like, you know, like Yaser might be. I think there was a rumor that he was potentially investing in the European Tour too, Like is this just like they they want to have their hands in all of golf. They have like you know, they want to have a seat at the table. That seemed to be like the original intention and goal of this. But in the meantime, you know, I think it's easy to dunk on live. It's it's

Yeah, that I think the like competitive nature of the league is like there's a serious problem there. But what I was going to say, what what came to mind when you were just speaking was also like the media

I mean the TGL, which launches next week. Right, I think it's like a pretty big deal. That's what the second half of this podcast is about.

But oh nice, the.

That wouldn't I Like, I was thinking about it this morning when I was on a walk. That would not have existed if it wasn't for Live, Like there's no way that the PGA Tour of four years ago would get on board with the TGL, and like Rory and Tiger's financial interest in the TGL, like this would not have existed, Like this would have been like, oh, we'll we'll try and do it ourselves and completely on our

Good career major record at least. Yeah, And that's kind of what's most important for Ryder Cup points.

But what's interesting is like the Bryson dynamic with the US Ryder Cup team.

Oh yeah, it's not good, Like are you gonna.

Try and bring the YouTube cameras in? Like what's the content around it? Like, I just think like he's not going to be a great chemistry fit. And I think like one of the things like we could say this or that about like the US team and does it matter, does it not? They've always had issues with chemistry.

Yes, yeah, I will. They already like barred the Netflix show from the team room, and there were all those issues with in Italy. So imagine Bryceon rolls up with his content team and they're like no, no, no, no, this is gonna work.

And then there's he in a bad mood all week, like.

Yeah, did you see him in the showdown? He looked miserable. I don't think there was something going on there.

I don't think. I don't think anybody was really happy.

No, no, yeah, He's like I'm not doing this anymore. It's the whole point of the thing.

I don't think anybody enjoyed like I think there. I don't think. I don't think really anybody enjoyed Bryce's company there.

No. Yeah, that was a tough scene. That was a tough scene.

That was a weird, weird situation.

I guess I don't know what to do with bitcoin, but thank you.

The I guess, Like you know, there was always like this like undercurrent of Phil and Tiger through the years of like they didn't they didn't really get along, right,

I think so. I think I feel like he really he really moves the needle. Like can we just talk about for a second the series of him hitting balls over his house and was it sixteen day journey or how many days was it? I forget? But those videos were getting like ten million views, every single one of them, and like it was incredible. That's like that's the amount of engagement across platforms. I don't hundreds of millions of views and that's hard to get. Like, I think how

I think if you think about like what's going on in sports, this is a greater conversation, you know, like ratings across sports for the most part, outside of the NFL or down. One of the things is that the distribution model is changing before our eyes. And distribution used to be the great the thing that sports leagues had, you know, like what their power is their distribution and If you look at the PGA Tour's YouTube channel, which is which has become a massive distribution source, is one

Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean the thing with like distribution now, and I think we actually spoke a bit about this a few months ago, is like there are just it's not so much you're just turning on the TV and being fed what the major networks or what the major leagues want you to consume. Like the consumer now of media or content or whatever you might be watching is like has all the power because you have

It's brilliant, it does it's I like what they are, but they need to be a little bit more tailored because if you follow like five players, like he obviously like five plus players is like, oh, this is clearly being made by the same person. I think that's the unique thing with what Bryson's done is that Bryson effectively has like his own media team. Yeah, and everything fits

I wouldn't watch live TV if it weren't for golf personally, like the content that I consume outside of my job and golf as like a hobby in general, like it's not on live TV.

Yeah, and like so it's fascinating when I turn the TV on it it knows like the only thing getging served on the TV is is sports, right, because it's got like my like auto plays something that it thinks out like usually it's right, but it's like golf, football, basketball, that's like the only thing, and it's like it's wild right Like but like so if you think about it, it's like that there there are going to be less and less passerbys mm hmm than ever before. And I

Yeah, they truly have to buy in. And I feel like that's that's part of the reason why this whole PJ Tour like equity program was created too, that the players have a stake in the growth of the PJ Tour. But I don't necessarily know if we've seen the effects of that kick in yet. Like I have a I have a Q and A coming out relatively soon with Kevin Kisner, And one of the things I talked him about was like, what what conversations have you had with players about like what you think the role of media

I mean, if you compare them the way they they kind of approach people that can amplify their sport golf, like someone like me or you, or or even the players, like think about it compared to the NFL. Like a few of my friends that cover the NFL, they get like basically like right after the games, they have like this all twenty two thing that they can go in and just like clip whatever they want and randalyze the sport. Yeah, with the footage, and it's.

Like, imagine what we could do.

This is so additive to the fan experience of what they're doing. And it's it's like if I post a clip of a of a shot, I'm going to get dmca'd and you know, and it's going to be taken down and you know this is you know, maybe get a talking to from somebody at the tour about not doing it right. Like it's like the complete couldn't be more opposite. But did you watch the Scotti doc that they just posted on.

You actually haven't watched it yet.

Now to me, like that's like an example of something that was really well done that they need to do more of. But one of the illuminating things that Sean Martin talked a little bit about when he came on this and he was the producer. He did a great job with it. But like they have like cameras rolling all the time and we never see any of it.

Where does it all go?

It goes into the ether, Like they have all this behind the scenes footage of Scottie like playing like you know, like there's like just this funny interaction with Scotty and Shane Lowry in the scoring tent before bay Hill where Lowry makes like a comment about his beard and Scotty like equips back, and it's like that was like a great genuine moment where like why why did we just

Yeah, that actually makes me think of Another kind of statistic that popped up when I was doing my YouTube golf research was I forget the exact percentage, but it was like a majority of gen zers when they consume content, they're consuming like reactionary content or like content about the

They're good.

Yeah, I mean this is a huge issue for all of sports, Like the NBA is like people care more about free agency than who wins the NBA finals, right, Like it's like, right, what do we do? Like I think golf like golf's issues, Like how do the PGA Tour's main issue is Like it feels like golf is heading into And I don't want this to sound pessimistic. I love watching PGA Tour golf like will tune into

Mm hm, I want to I just wonder, like with that direction in mind, like do the Saudi's care that golf is like going in that direction? Is that a concern? Like do they really just want a seat at the table? But what is the point of having a seat at the tables for a sport that's like in decline in a lot of ways, and because of their involvement, It's just like it's so counterintuitive to think about. And I just like wish I could be a fly on the wall in some of these boardroom meetings, like what I

It's it's a great question. I think. I think maybe their issue right now is that a lot of their board has different goals, and those goals all pull in different directions, and just how we got here. What happens is that nothing moves in any direction because of that? All right, back, cap, let's get back to the back like that, you know, this conversation just going so you have like the live dynamic with Brooks and Bryson, And are there any other players that have like a great year?

It all so it felt like the Whistling Streets team, And correct me if I'm wrong. Was like kind of like from a more condensed generation like age wise. And I feel like with this with Bethpage Black coming up, like it really could go either way. Or it could be like the Old Guard only with like a couple sprinkled in. It could be like way more of the New Guard the young guys, or it could be a mix of the two, which I think would be would put us at a disadvantage because it's just like harder

I was not.

You were not in Montreal. It did feel like there was a harmony among the guys, Like it felt like a lot of them played junior off together. A lot of them like are in the same stages in life, like just having a kid or like married or all like the wives got along, and like Kisner was like vibing with everyone because there was just like kind of a humor to the team. But it is uncertain you're right with the back half of the Ryder Cup team of like which way we're gonna go?

Yeah and and yeah. I always I just find myself thinking because like I don't know, I started this bit. I started covering golf in twenty fifteen and Speith was so young. JT was young, And I just find myself at this point always thinking about the wedding crashers line when they're sitting on the on the steps and they're like, and I think Owen Wilson says, we're not that young anymore.

You know, That's exactly what's happening.

And it's like Jordan Speth next time Ryder Cup goes through is thirty two, you know, like JT's thirty two. Yeah, Xander's thirty. Xander and Scottie to me, they're obviously locks. They are bona fide locks, and probably and I think like with Xander playing so well, Can'tley had a bad year last year, but like Can'tle is going to be

Right, which would be insane, but I feel like they they actually did like get some good practice like at the President's Cup. And we talked to Jim Ferick about this after the win. Is like Xander, Scotti, Colin and Patrick Cantley were like the leaders in that team room, which is so funny thinking about what Whistling Streets was like. And Scotty was kind of the young new guy who

So I mean, yeah, like I saw something I don't know. Did you see the Rock Bolton social posts of the ranking the PGA Tour players?

No, but can I look all the reference.

It's an Instagram post. I think the put it up they had like Keegan ranked like fifty two or something like, they had all these players driving in it was like Rob Bolton's twenty twenty five like player ranking. And I mean, but it's like Kingan's the twelfth ranked player in the world right now.

Oh my god, yeah, yeah, I'm just seeing this right now.

All the like, there's so many players that commented, oh random. It was like it was kind of it was I like loved it because it was like, this is an amazing content. Yeah, it's amazing content because like all the players, like clearly they posted over the holidays. All these players are on their phone and they're like, what the fuck.

Like you got for twenty twenty five Rob Bolts Fantasy Rankings with the eye.

Emoji's yeah, oh my god, it's incredible. It's like there are so many players that are in the In the messages.

Someone just comments, all right, the f is Robbie Bolton.

He's been at it a long time. I feel like I read Rob Bolton when I.

Was like, yeah, legend. A lot of Weslie Bryant.

Comments, Oh YouTuber, yep, he's he's ranked ahead a Tiger Tigers like one ninety one. There's an incredible piece of content that is amazing.

I totally miss this.

What what else do you have on your list?

Okay, let me let me read pull up the list. Yeah, so mine was I had a Ryder Cup one, but mine was more the like logistical disaster that could be the Ryder Cup, if we're thinking about Long Island and Bethpage Black. As a native New Yorker, I remember actually going to the PJA Championship with my dad and my brother and we took the subway and the L I R R and the shuttle. We eventually got there, and I am worried. I'm worried about the setup in New York,

I was at that p G a yeare by uh No, I was in the city. You were awful, it was. It was awful getting there. I also was at the shinnecock us Open. I and by happenstance, by my procrastination, my late booking.

Uh oh no, where did you stay?

Well?

I stayed east of Shinnakok in like a little bed and breakfast and it was incredible. I had like this delightful, like twelve minute drive.

Wow.

But everybody else like if you're if you're staying from west of it, you're screwed. You're done. It's awful. So yeah, it could be Solheim Cup levels.

It could be. I know, I just don't know if it's going to be the train the bus and stands like something is going to go wrong. Also, the tickets were nine hundred dollars, so yeah, things don't go well, aren't going to be that happy about.

That's the issue, right, is like if it was like a thirty dollars ticket of one hundred dollars ticket, one hundred and fifty dollars ticket, you expect have more sympathy. But when you spend you know, if you're a family of four and you spend thirty six hundred dollars four thousand dollars ish on you know the whole thing, you you probably expect some sort of like nice parking situation.

To move, right yep. Yeah, And you also had to paper parking too on top of the ticket, so that that was mine. That was mine, I mean. And also like in relation to that, like everything that happened at the waste management last year, with like the chaos that unfolded and just like the environment that is Long Island and sports and like the debauchery that could unfold is like it actually is terrifying to me.

Yeah, it's it's ryder Cup. I feel like we have like I feel like waste management like boiled up to like what it was. Yeah, And it feels like the Ryder Cup has been having this like it's kind of been like a home field discussion m M, where it's like, is there too much you know, in the home team's control and they haven't had like a close Ryder Cup in.

A long time.

No.

No, And because of that, like it's been like this undertow And does Bethpage be the be the moment where it like sets it off over the over the edge?

I could, Yeah, I could. I mean, like it feels like it's kind of the like this Bomber's golf course, which I think will naturally favor the US and they'll I mean, you guys, you're the course nerds here. You could talk more to this than I can. But like, I feel like you already get the course set up, advantage of putting teas in certain places, the roughs up here, down there, pin locations, et cetera. But like just the nature of that golf course I feel like automatically favors the the States.

I had never been there, and Jeff Ogilvie did a preview episode with me before the PGA, and he said nobody will win this tournament. I'm paraphrasing here. He said the way more eloquently, but he's like, you have to fly at three hundred and ten yards to win this tournament at this golf course. And then it was Brooks and bryceon just kicking it out and like people are always good point they're going to point to, Like Jordan

Thorbjornsen is like one of the I think he's like the fifth longest hitter on tour if he was counted in the statistics, Like he doesn't even have enough rowns to count.

Clanton is really long too, and I think is above average length. Like generally, the longer players are always going to be the younger players, So that's it's an interesting aspect of it. Here's a question for one time. I'm ready, what's a realistic over under for Scottie Scheffler wins and in twenty twenty five.

Well, the glass in the hand complicates things, wasn't it. That was one of mine.

One of the weirdest tweets of the holiday breaks was the PGA tourist one hundred expects to make cover.

Why was the quote from his agent?

Yeah?

Like what why was that coming from the PGA tour.

I don't I don't know, I don't know. I mean they had it like it was all perfectly like set to go, Like every social channel posted Scottie glass in his hand at the same time. It was like the announcement of the century. But that's like a pretty serious like place to get surgery.

No, Like I feel like, yeah, surgery seems like a lot. It's not like he got stitches.

No, No, he's like going under the knife. I I used to be laughing because like, hopefully this isn't serious, but like that is your connection to the club. And I'm kind of like not ready to say, scott he's gonna win nine times now.

Pre pre glass in hand? What would you in hand hand? I mean over under? So like betting line.

He won seven this year, I think with the ten with the hero. Oh, okay, nine with the Hero, nine with the hero's got us covered. I would say under seven point five.

That's I was pre glass in hand. Seven and a half felt yeah, which is insane. I mean maybe six and a half. Like the thing about what's happened with the tour schedule with like all the top players, and this is like Tiger used to play the Tiger schedule and it was like all big tournaments. A couple urnaments that he played, you know, that you could say were easier fields, but for the most part, it was like

That's a really good point. I never thought about that.

So, like I Scott, that makes Scotty's year all the more impressive last year, but it also to me makes doing it you're and you're out more and more difficult. But it also, like I think like that one of the things that like record wise, like we are seeing career shorter for everybody else on tour, Like there's so many people that didn't win a tournament last year. Yep, Like more cow was outstanding last year and like, oh he finished runner up to Scottie like three times.

Right, Well, you also think about like the guys in those field events, like it kind of changes their trajectory too, Like I think of a Jake Knap and he won twice, I think, which is pretty insane. Once. Oh maybe once.

Yeah, Austin Akrot won twice.

Yes, Okay, Austin Akrote won twice, and.

Like like he'd be like a perfect example of like a potential Ryder Cup player. He won twice. He's like really good. Nobody knows really who he is, but he's really freaking good.

Yeah, exactly. I feel like that's a really good point about Scotty though, Like I wonder, I mean, I wish we could know, like without the hand, I wonder how much of a factor that's going to be. But it really does make it all the more impressive because almost all of those events were signature, you know, marquee events, and some of them were when he you know, his

Yeah, it's just.

It is remarkable. I think. I hope it's not. I hope it's not a huge step back for him. Like, but I go back to my conversations with Randy Smith where he talks about like how important Scotty's hands are to his golf swing, like it being like the connection between you and the club, and like he says things like Scotty's got the best pair of hands I've ever seen, and like he is a field player. So I'm just like I'm worried a little bit.

About the hands. Anything hands or wrist for a golfer is like the worst worst thing's.

Happened with Jordan with with Spief than the wrist.

Yeah, that would be like total golf thing that a Christmas Day. Probably, I don't have any information. Probably probably hops hops.

You know, maybe like more than likely.

Yeah, it's uh, it's crazy. Uh what do you have next?

Let's see what else do I have? We kind of had some cross contamination here. Oh this was my non men's golf. Can the LPGA make a semblance of a turnaround in twenty twenty five, That's a big.

Question, I think when we talk about TV rights, that is, Yeah, the big hurdle mm hmmmm hmm.

Yeah, we we did a after Molly stepped down, Brody, my colleague and I did this kind of like survey of the LPGA and the problems that it has to face, and Brody did a really nice section about the problem with the TV deal. It's basically controlled by the PGA Tour.

It is everybody romanticizes Mike Want's tenure, and I think like move like leaps and bounds net positive net huge debt positive for the LPGA, huge debt positive. But I would say that I would also argue that one of the biggest mistakes made was bundling LPGA that, yeah, with the PGA Tour, you cannot have an organization that that has ulterior motives control where your rights package.

No, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And again that like twenty thirty one date is looming over our heads. But like the LPGA, I feel like in our bubbles, like the Nelly year was incredible and like everything that she did, very similarly to Scotti was like against the odds and and breaking records and just like playing machine robot golf, and like for more reasons than one, it just didn't break through, Like it didn't shine shine through

Were Charlie needs to win more to be Charlie does.

Charlie does need to win more.

But at the same time, the Knicks were the bulls arrival in the nineties and they never beat the bulls, right, like we.

Need some kind of drama, Like I feel like what with the w n B A Like the obviously Kitlyn the Kaitlyn Clark effect is all powerful, but there was there's also like riffs and and and spats and controversy and like lats never never get that at the LPGA.

It makes me somewhat believe and this has been a scene of this entire conversation, but like to me, I would have a big question if I was in charge of the LPGA, is televised live golf the best version of product that we can put out there? And I kind of generally might say no.

Yeah, I would think.

I think that the the LPGA, the Women's Golf has like I think like one of the things that when you're smaller, one of the nice things you have is a little bit more freedom to try stuff. When you try. If you're the big, biggest person in a space and you try something and you fail, everybody knows you fail.

Mm hmm, it's.

Really like the only times we break through is when we're on network TV. For the most part, I would be thinking about, like how do we build audience elsewhere because it seems really unlikely that they're going to build a huge audience through the Golf channel with really bad time air times.

Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I mean, like I feel like, why not experiment with with YouTube golf. The LPGA doesn't have those rights restrictions, Like when you go to an LPGA event, I can post whatever I want, Like I can post videos and no one's gonna say a word. And there's definitely definitely a room there for improvement.

I mean, they have two hundred and thirty thousand followers on UT Yeah, and that seems to be to be like a number. You could easily get to a million. Yeah, with the like you have the talent and the access. That's the hardest part about to get.

Yes.

I also do think that what could provide like a boost of energy to LPJ LPGA as well, is there is a really awesome like young contingent of American players coming up the ranks right now. Like there's like a Mari Avery Megagane, Rachel heck Is turned in is saying amateur, but Rachel Keene just turned pro. Like there there could be kind of this like burst of youth on the

They can't do what they did with Rojang.

No they Yeah.

From everything I hear like astrosk Tally is like a superstar and the superstar like going to be you know. I think like that's one of the unique things with

And then the and then those superstar household names don't like they don't have as much of a shelf life as the PGA Tour stars do because simply just because players step away earlier. And we saw that with Lexi Thompson this year.

Yeah. My last thing is, uh is Rory wins the Major. If you bet on this enough, it's going to happen.

Wait wait, I lost you for a sec.

My last thing is Rory mc roy wins the Mature And I figure if you just if you keep betting on this enough, eventually you're going to be right.

Yeah, I yeah, I don't know. I I feel like the longer this this drought goes on, the harder it gets. And and like and last summer was especially tough, and like the scar tissue, there is immense So I don't want to be personally too optimistic about this because I will get my hopes up and I will be let down again. But if it is, it's always this is always a storyline. Every year, it's a storyline.

Yeah, you could make an argument that it's like the biggest story in golf.

Yeah, in golf for sure. And we have Royal Port Rush coming up.

I don't like that one.

You know, which one do you like? Yeah? I was going to say, like, he loves that place.

Loves it, loves it. I mean, he can just hit it over every bunker.

Mm hmmm.

I think it's it's just I think statistically he keeps getting better. He is, he is quantitatively a better golfer. He Yeah, it's just it's a fascinating, like how many really fascinating how many years does he have left? Does he have sixteen good major championships left? I think that's that's the reality.

Of it and getting one.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I feel like, statistically, is it likely to happen? No? Right, I'm sorry, I hate to be I hate to be.

Well.

I mean, like he's roughly played forty majors. This is just back of the napkin math, right, Okay, so he's won four of forty, so he's roughly at like a ten percent clip. So statistically he should get one of the next sixteen. I mean, I think, like there's a real question like how long is he going to play at a high level? Right, and that I think he's probably got five years, four to five years.

I think he has more. I mean, like he he has so much longevity. I think in his like body, like Rory never I mean maybe I'm wrong in this, but I feel like he's never injured.

He had a backscare early in his career, and then they they like, I mean, they overhauled his entire fitness right right, everything.

To take him for twenty grams of creatine in a day.

Now, how about Scotty not knowing creatine?

Well, he was like, yeah, yeah, there's been there's been a lot of research, man, right, And then Rory's like shaking his protein thing.

Scotty aloof a great play like he's he's never gonna get like the Dustin Johnson treatment, but there is like some Dustin Johnson in him.

Yeah. Well, I think he just like has the like blinders on.

Yeah.

Like I remember that quote from I think was like the GQ story on Scotty was like he has he has like certain news alerts like blocked on his phone so he can't even get golf news like that takes effort.

I would say, like yeah, And I think like that's it's an interesting with if you compare him to Rory, Like Rory's like hyper aware, Yes, Scotty is like completely.

Unaware, hater blocker's on. Yes, it's I.

Think that it goes to like that. I don't know if it was Phil or whoever said it, like you have to be either like extraordinarily brilliant or yeah, complete idiot to play this game. There's nothing between yeah, and most of us fall in between.

Yes, exactly. Oh okay. My last my bonus one that I want to mention, which is topical today on the day that we're recording, is in twenty twenty five, Tiger Woods will turn fifty. Will he play the Champion Store.

I've heard well Fred Couples was saying, Yeah, he thinks he's gonna play a lot. It makes sense, especially if he can ride a cart.

Totally and he won't feel like he's breaking any getting any special treatment or break any rules, like he's gonna want to break Bernard Longer's record or whoever holds.

I don't think he's got a chance to touch burn.

Either, but like he'll want to try. It's Tiger, you.

I think you could parlay this into the Champions Tour years. The early Champions Tour years are Tiger's best chances at major championships going forward, because we just like, there's no way for this guy to play like a seventy two hole event within two weeks of a walking seventy two holes within two weeks of a major, right, and we have seen like like when he won in twenty nineteen, there was a build up. There was like, oh, he's contending here, he's contending here, he wins here, Like there

Just competitive reps in YEP.

I don't think it's possible for anybody to not play golf and that just show up a major and win, Like it's I think it's them.

You're flat Florida golf course and step up at Pinehurst and like expect to be fine. But yeah, I mean that's a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Like he'll be able to like get that like under pressure, like reps and experience and and like feel what his swing does like in those moments. And that's you hear players talk about that all the time, and like you never being able to replicate that in any way, no

So, I haven't played a tournament in years. One of my resolutions might be playing a golf.

Tournament the same US Midam. Now that I'm thinking about it, I just I can qualify.

Now that's uh, that's a great one. The one I played, I was like, I'm never going to miss one of these, and I've played one qualifier.

Even in college. I would just back out of the last second. I'm too scared.

So anyways, like I think, like if I wouldn't play a tournament tomorrow, even though I feel like my game is good. I probably would shoot like a seventy eight, But if I played fifteen tournaments in a year that's seventy eight, that same level of play would be a seventy two, just because of like understanding what's going on. This is why, Like I think, like one of my favorite things is like when a really good club player goes and plays like a state qualifier and shoots eighty two.

Right, like happens all the time.

This is not playing Saturday, And of course you've played one hundred times in a row.

It's a different game. You got you have to put everything out, penalty shots. You know, you could pump two balls out of bounce on the first hole like I've played. Even in like club matches or the WMGA. There's like a there's like a women's match play series that I play in every spring. The first time I did it was probably like two years out of college, and I literally forgot how to put, Like I could not put for the life and be I think I four putted

It's yeah, and like you have to play even at Tiger's level, the greatest player of all time, Like you know, it'd be like somebody being like, hey, we're gonna you know, Luk at doncas hasn't played all year somehow where the MAVs get to the finals and he hasn't played all year, but he's gonna play in this finals.

He was stink.

Sure he'd have like some good shots, he'd make a couple shots. But like if you haven't played basketball in a long time in a competitive setting, you get like winded, You feel like you have two left hands, you know, Like it is the same thing happens with golf, and it's like it doesn't just matter if you practice a bunch now, it is being in the arena. So I I actually love the Champion Tiger Champions Tour angle. All right, that does it? What do you have coming up on

Oh, thank you, Eddie. I'm stay tuned for a feature I have coming out Thursday on Xander Shoffley and his dad Stefan, kind of a inside look at how the mind of Xander was built, the mind that won his first major and then a second major two months later, kind of take a look at why Stefan stepped away, what led to that decision, what he's been up to since, and just the dynamic with Xander throughout his life and kind of the values and persistence that was instilled in

He if you you start to look at his career, it's like a very very impressive career.

It's incredible. Yeah, he just hangs around.

I think he's about one win from being I think pretty much like a you can't unassailable better than JT career, probably win one big win away from that, and yeah, I think he's already pretty much there. Like the consistency is just incredible. So I'm excited to read that.

Awesome. Thank you for having me as always, Andy appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks, Gabby, I have a great new year.

Thank you you two.

All right, before we get to PJ and Joseph, a quick little plug for clip TF. This is our membership. It is uh. We are producing a lot of work in this year and year out. This will be year three of our membership. So one of the great things about this is that you if you join now, you get access to our entire backlog of content that we've produced over the last two years. We have almost one hundred course profiles, really detailed write ups about some of

Is heading.

Annie, My biggest take on the whole thing, I think it has a chance for success and some of the factors that you're mentioning, with it being on primetime, with it having a huge distribution network and partner in ESPN, with it being timed, with it fitting into a two hour window seeing every single shot because there's not a bunch of golf balls up in the air.

I think some of.

The production value should be very high. Like all of those things are working in its favor. My biggest take on this though, is that for it to succeed, the gameplay itself needs to be very compelling. And I feel that way about all sports. And this might be overly analytical, but like part of the reason the NFL is so popular, and I know people are a little tired of comparison to other sports, but the NFL gameplay is ridiculously good, right.

That's a great point, A great point is like nobody tunes into the NFL because of the personality of the players. Now nobody tunes into the NBA because of the personality of the players, like kind of tune into sports because of the gameplay and which.

Produces those which produces those personalities and those stars like that. That is the part that I will hammer home. The gameplay itself, if it's electric, then you won't even miss that Scotti Scheffler isn't there because the guys are competitive and they're going to be into it, and it's gonna be fun to watch the different shots they're hitting. All

PJ your thoughts.

I am most intrigued as to the ESPN buy in on this and how seriously they take it with the distribution platforms. Obviously they're giving it a lot of primetime airtime, which not like they have a ton going on between January and March on Monday and Tuesday nights. So it's nice that golf and the PGA Tour has kind of gotten that market for them, But how are they promoting it on social? How aggressive are they cross promoting it

Yeah, I mean the ESPN thing. I think they are going to push it the more successful it is, right, I think they are at the point where they have you know, they they know pretty quickly what's going to be a success. They probably have a very robust analytics team that understands like what things can pop based off

Yeah, honestly, I'm skeptical that there are that many winners in this batch. Like my vision for TGL would be that you have almost no constraints. You have one massive constraint in that the green zone can only shift around a little bit and it's surrounded by the same three bunkers.

Well, see, this is what I don't understand. So they've built like you, they play around the greens and on the greens in the stadium fifty yards and in fifty yards and in is on the stadium, and they have a green that's structured like a certain way, so it has the same bunkers and the same general shape. What I don't understand why can't they just like rope off part of the area for certain holes. Why can't the green get smaller or bigger? And why can't certain bunkers

One thing I think they can do is is shrink the effective area so it's not always fifty yards and in like there's one part three where they've removed a lot of that area and it's just the green and the bunkers and like a little bit of the surrounds. But I'm with you, Andy, I wish you could move the bunkers around a little bit. I'm sure it's difficult, but to get to your question about why I think they're bad to me, like, and I mean, this is

And then the.

Third would be that when the ball hits the ground there needs to be intrigue. To me, this is a lot of just stock shots into holes that don't even necessarily have great risk reward profiles, and.

It's gonna get boring.

I like Andy I would have I would have hazards in the air, and I'm not kidding about that, like a center line hazard in the sky that you have to curve it around one.

Way or the other, like I would have been.

This should be completely like hitting it into pipes, where if you hit it into the pipe, it shoots it out way down the fairway. If you miss, you're in the water. Like this should have been nuts And a lot of these holes they wouldn't be interesting in real life, let alone in simulator golf. So I just think the failure to lean.

Into the Nicholas holes are flat out bad. They're flat bad holes on golf courses, and they're even worse when you consider there's no constraints. It's like they literally like gave it to their junior associate and said, scribble out some golf holes.

I mean, the par threes are going to be really boring because the.

Problem with the par threes is that they have the same bunker and green shape.

Exactly, so that that's where I'm there's some concern.

I think, like the other what you said about the ball hitting the ground and rolling, everything I've seen from it. Every shot i've seen hit in in the screen, the giant screen, the three Dinosaurs can fitted every every shot I've seen the ball has like kind of landed really softly, And I would love to see, like, can we just like ramp up, like we know the best golf is

Andy, I think there should be like trampolines in some of the fair ways, like speed slots. I'm not kidding where you hit a certain.

Spot, you could put a cart path right down the middle, like the Design Disasters hole at hicksything else you.

Kid, But I'm I'm that's what this should look like to me, like completely alternative form of golf. When you turned a lot of these holes on that you mentioned tglgolf dot com backslash holes. You can look at them. It's not gonna play dynamically, and to me, that's a colossal failure in a simulator league where you should there are virtually no constraints besides the green zone. So that's that's a big take for me.

PJ.

Do you have anything that you're skeptical or bullish about.

I am wondering how the forty second shot clock is going to work for the TV aspect of this, because forty seconds in reality is not that much time.

So if we are you think that's about the Is that the play clock for the NFL forty seconds?

Yeah, it's so quick.

And.

Yeah, you gotta put this out.

We gotta take a time out, ten second runoff, all that good stuff. But seriously, like, if this is based on the personalities of the players and they're gonna want these viral clips of you know, Tom Kim talking to Kevin Kisner or whatever. If it's only forty seconds between each shot, how much time do you realistically have for these made for TV moments outside of the actual golf

I think I think for the television product, and I've always said this with regards to shot clock and golf, it's like groundbreaking because like, for the first time in golf, an announcer knows when somebody's get hit a shot, and you can build your entire like discourse and graphics and everything the camera, like how you interchange. Like this is going to be an infinitely better television product for golf because it's a fix it's a fixed location like everybody

Especially if the gameplay is good. And that's where I'm optimistic about the role that Roberto Castro has played in some of this a frequent Friday guests. I know he's run through this with buddies and getting it all set up and engineering what this format should look like. The hammer part of this is pretty cool, Andy, Like, at any.

Point, can you explain the hammer part of this forever?

Yeah?

So, at any given point, one of the teams has possession of the hammer, And my understanding is they can throw it at any point during the hole when they feel like they have an advantage, and it adds a point to the point value that they're playing that hole for, and if their opponent accepts it, it adds that point value to the whole. If the opponent declines it, then they can see the hole and they can see the point to the other team, so and then the possession

Kind of makes sense, yeah, I think like that's where I think there should be a lot of optimism. Do you guys have a favorite team? Who's who's your team? I'm wearing my Ballfrogs hat. I was the you know, I think I was maybe fan number one of the of the Frogs. Do you guys have teams picked out?

I mean, go ahead, PJ.

I'm riding with my my ny GC. I have to, you know, slidarity with Steve cohen selidarity with young a long islander.

You know, you have to stick with your roots.

I got a hometown team, unlike you who does not have a hometown team somehow, but the third the third biggest media market in the country doesn't have doesn't have a team.

I could have been an SF fan, though. My issue is that our star player has never been to the city that is.

That is a real issue.

I'm New York GC through and through as well.

PJ.

I'm not from there originally, but have some roots out there, and I do believe if there's ever been a golfer who is as positioned for simulator golf as Cam Young, then I'd be shocked if you talk about a player whose struggles come on and around the green I think the green zone is a massive band aid on that, and Cam Young is just I don't know if it's going to be a good thing for him or a

We're going to have a big New York Boston rivalry. I mean this is I've never never I've only experienced this from the outside. Now now I'm in the throes of it with my Ballfrogs.

I don't know, are people going to turn on Keegan at best page if the ball Frogs have a great seasons as the headliner of a of a Boston team.

That's the thing He's got, the Saint John's connection. Though he can play. Has anybody ever you know played both sides of the Boston New York rivalry as much as Belle's.

Keegan no no, Johnny Damon, Keegan Bradley.

That's that's the list. All right, Well we'll be excited. I'm I'm gonna be locked in uh for this on uh on Tuesday. What is it the eighth?

Yes?

Seven seventh seven seventh seventh?

Can wait?

Can I throw one quick question at you guys?

Yeah?

Which is the golfer that complains the most about where his ball ends up that thinks the simulator technology is not doing him justice? That Hey, I didn't hit that ball there, the technology is a little off. Who whinds the most? That's what I'm probably most interested in.

It's a shame that Yryl Hatton is not involved in this because that was the first that's the first answer they carry to my head.

I Mean, here's like the thing. I you scroll through this like list of players, right, and if we could this is not a if we could just like take a wand and and erase Lucas Glover. Let's say, I don't know who else I want to pick out, but like Lucas Glover a couple others from this list, and we could replace it with like Bryson Brooks and Tyrrell. It would get a lot more compelling Phil. Phil would

You know, not the answer I expected?

What not the answer I expected to which Golfer will complain the most about where the ball ends up.

But I think a good point I'll take.

I'll take justin Rose to answer your question.

Maddy fitz has got to be high on the on the list here.

Well, what are the driver rules for this if he cracks his driver, is he allowed to switch it out?

Where does this we need the referetion?

Paul out his notebook and be like, look, I've hit the shot four times in the last two years. Here the logs.

Does does Fitzpatrick long these shots? Is a great I think she does?

He does?

He has to, right.

That's the bit. There's the good news is there's a there's a there's a reporter that will tell us if he does or doesn't. You know, Danny Rapps is is ever president on the Matty fitz beat, so he will he will let us know. I think I was gonna say what Going back to the holes, one thing I noticed this morning when I was going through them is that I think I think Pisa has done the best job of every architect at at these holes. But he did designed effectively the same hole three times. Did you

He also did basically the same thing with some of the triangle holes, like some of them are almost identical. Like the Pisa understood that this should be out of the box in a little bit nuts, he did not understand risk reward profile of the modern golfer. So like that's the plus and minus going on with Pisa there the other two. I honestly don't think bo Welling did

The lack of creativity.

So that's how I'm evaluating these three architects before this thing gets underway.

Yeah, I was looking at the Pisa holes and I like, like his overarching thoughts on them. But then I was looking at them and I'm like, wait, these are like the same holes, just like different yardages. I think one of the biggest mistakes that all the architects made was

You could have eight hundred yard holes where there's opportunities like through I'll keep saying, like pipes and stuff to maybe pipe it up like other. Yes, that's what it should look, a little Mario golf esque like it really I believe that that's the way that they should go.

Yeah, I was like, I I've thought about holes, I've sketched some out. I did a posts. You did one too, Joseph. I did like a design. One of the things I thought about is like something that would work really well with simulator golf is that would mimic real life golf is trees. Trees would work really well, especially for pro golfers, Like you could make a whole look like a real golf hole, but use trees as hazards and to create

Force the guys to curve it, Yes, force them to curve the ball.

It's it. I think that's what I like about pieces holes is that there is like some you have to make a decision what we don't see enough. Like so when you combine the timer the shot clock with really good design, I think like what you're going to see is what you see with other sports, where players are going to have to react quickly and make intentional decisions. And I think that's how it wins. All right, Well, any closing thoughts before we get out of here.

I'm I'm excited.

I actually I actually think this this whether it goes in a positive very negative direction, this TVD, But I actually I think this is going to be at least for the first couple of weeks, it's gonna be pretty fun to watch along to see to see what happens at the outset here.

I'm super excited.

I think that the opportunity for funny stuff, whether it's jokes about golfers who do well on a simulator but not in real life. Like, there's gonna there's gonna be so much content to come from this, and it's gonna be something everyone's watching at the same time. I'm pretty excited. I think it could work, And if they tweaked the golf holes and made them a lot more creative, you might actually have like a pretty legit product.

Yeah.

I think the golf holes are are the obvious kind of flaw here. I think like there's got to be somebody in the room that tells them or that you know, evaluates these holes before you put them on the screen. To me, it just seems like every hole was rubber stamped. It was just like oh this, thanks for sending this in. You know, there needs to be some sort of vetting process of like, okay, let's try this. Like that's the