I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball.
In a brid egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday fridagg Friday Bride Egg, Lie.
I'm about ready to run off of thelf course. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I'm your host Andy Johnson. Today I am joined by Ryan Labner. He is a senior writer at the Golf Channel also a co host to The Golf Channel's Rex and lab Show Golf podcast. So I have one to have Ryan come on and just talk about everything going on in golf. Obviously, we get Tiger Woods back this weekend at the Hero he gave a press conference talked in detail about his
comeback as well as the framework agreement. So figured it was time to kind of catch up on what's going on on the PGA Tour, and then we do just a little bit of a recap of the year in golf as well. At the end, I have to apologize this was a very early.
Morning recording in California and I.
Forgot to switch on the audio onto my mic, so it recorded through my computer, So it might be a little bit of a throwback episode in terms of audio quality to the early days of the Friday Golf Podcast. For those listeners that have been with us for a long time, I apologize for that. It's not terrible. It's it's far from our worst audio. But that is why my audio is not like the audio you're.
Hearing right now.
So thank you guys, and we will be back next week with some new episodes.
But here is Ryan Labner.
All right, we're back, Ryan Labner On, senior writer at Golf Channel, co host of the Golf Channel podcast with Rex and Lav. Ryan, it'spent a minute. It spent since the PGA Championship when we were talking about garbage plates.
That's right.
Yeah, my Hometowl Major grew up about thirty minutes south of there. I did not actually have a garbage plate this year. I was not writing it for the indigestion, but maybe maybe next time I go home.
Did you think about it? Was there a moment in time, oh, when it was like president and you opted for another dish?
Absolutely?
Like when I boarded the flight back home, I typically go to Bill Gray's like right before, and I decided I was going to be a grown up and not subject to fellow passengers to a post garbage plate experience.
That's uh, that might be TMI. It might be tm I. Anyway, it's uh, you know, there's a lot going out of the golf world. I feel like this is like becoming a full calendar year. Uh uh, sport, I think much like a lot of sports. I think I think almost every sports writer would say that with like, you know, popularity of free agency. I you know, I was going to bring you on to talk about what you thought Graham mcdell's addition to Smash brings, but I really h
you know, Tiger jumped on that news. Tiger's back at the Hero. Uh, what did you think of its press conference? And uh, what are your kind of expectations for Tiger moving forward?
Yeah? I thought the press conference was interesting.
It was essentially two different press conferences, and it's very rare that Tiger's health, the state of his game, his form, his expectations for the following year like kind of take a back seat. But I thought it was it was definitely a secondary story to what we had When Tiger addressed the media on Tuesday, it was the first time we'd heard from him, obviously since the June sixth deal was announced.
And Rex asked me the other day, like.
What's the first word you would use to describe Tiger's mood when described? And I said, he was pissed, Like he was definitely condemning PG tour leadership more than I thought.
Like.
I think his silence over the past several months spoke volumes in the sense that he didn't give a vote of support or confidence for PG torur Commissioner j Monahan. But to hear him say repeatedly that can't happen and it won't happen again in regards to the players being left out of any crucial decisions regarding the PGA Tour's future, I thought that was very striking you.
As somebody on the inside, I think this is an interesting you know, with him talking about the players being left out. I feel like one of the reasons they were left out is that the tour is kind of a leaky auset. If you let players in, then within a couple you know, a couple hours, everybody's in. You know, there are really no secrets. It's kind of like high
school that it's like a high school gossip scene. So do you think that there's a way that, you know, you can get a deal done without everybody, you know, it becoming discussed greatly? Is that? Is that where we're.
Heading to that point? Like I remember the Delaware meeting last year.
I was covered the BMW Championship and the morning after that there was a pro am at the golf course and I remember going up to a bunch of guys and this was like eight or nine am, and it was like, oh, like we signed a we signed a
blood oath, like we absolutely cannot talk about this. And then like the more time you gave them, they're like, okay, we can, we can shed some details, and like by by the afternoon and then certainly by Thursday morning, like all the details, all the details what was actually discussed, had been put out in the open.
You know.
I find I find it interesting in a couple of different respects. Like Tiger is clearly frustrated at the pace that this is going.
Roy McRoy has left the board.
The reasons that he did so were understandable, but the timing of that decision I think just just prompts so many other questions. You know, was the private equity piece handled. He knew that, and he felt like it was the
right time to step away. Was he in that marathon meeting on Monday of RSM week and then decided, Oh my god, Like we're nowhere near the finished line, Like I'm getting out before I get dragged into something for the foreseeable future that's dragging deep into twenty twenty four. Like it just leaves so many questions. And I don't know how you feel about this, Andy, Like PJ Tour players are not they don't have the background, They're not educated enough to make this deal. You know, this is
a deal that needs to be done between savvy businessmen. Now, should pg tour players have input on what a worldwide schedule should look like, what the what the flow of the schedule should look like, where they should be playing, how much is adequate to be playing for absolutely but to but to make business decisions still just seems a little a little wild to me that Tiger Woods is kind of at the at the forefront of this when he doesn't necessarily have that sort of background.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of super intelligent PGA Tour players, But like, I think I agree with what you said and I think it's like coming out in a lot of comments, and obviously I think it's important to remember like the loud of the squeakiest wheels in all the wheels, like the Lanto Griffin comments, like recently where he's talking about, you know, the tours paying
off Rory with like these sponsors. It's like, well, sponsors want a sponsor or high profile players who are on TV, right, like you know, but I think some of the players are the louder players are generally the ones that are like might be giving all the players a bad rep.
But in general, I think this deal needs to be done with a little bit of input from a few select players, but it mostly needs to be done at the business level because it's it's interesting, Like I think one of the things that I thought ran counter right with what what this business? What this deal has to be about? And Tiger's press conference was Tiger talking about like how he's trying to retain the tour, like we're trying to like keep the tour and and the values
and all this stuff. If you're if somebody's going to give you a couple of billion dollars, like they're talking about the tour to change, right, Yeah, And I don't think I think that's like the right now. The real problem here is that the vest majority of players don't want anything to change, which is, you know, the top players want to get paid more money. The bottom players don't want the top players to get paid more money.
But in a way, the bottom players are doing the same thing the top players are doing to the other levels of golf. They don't want to go anywhere either, you know, they don't want to have real relegation. They want as many ways to save their career. So you have all of these, like with the PGA Tour, you have all these individuals who have effectively the same self interest.
They don't want a lot of changes, and they want extreme job security, right and if at the top end of the at the top end of the game, they don't want to have to be subjected to a rigorous like you're here schedule. They want to still have the autonomous nature of like I get a pick where I play, and they want to play for more and more money.
But like anybody that's investing a lot of money into the PGA Tour is investing money into the PGA Tour because they see potential if you if you kind of renovate the PGA Tours model, if you rethink it, could this sports league be worth billions of more dollars than it's worth today. So I think that's the tricky thing here is had you had Tiger Woods up there talking about how he wants to keep it, like kind of keep it the same as it is and take on this money, I don't think that works.
I agree with Andy, Like it's obviously a great time to be a pg Tour player. Like what did Victor Hoblin make this year with all the bonuses, like something like thirty seven million dollars, Like he has very little incentive to want to see the PGA Tour model change. And I think this Scottie Scheffler's, the Roy mcroy's, the
John Rams of the world probably agree with you. But like, if a private equity firm is dumping a billion or two billion dollars into the PGA Tour, like they're expecting a return on their investments sometime in the next two to three years, Like that's just how they operate. And there's this general assumption that if the PIF invests in the tour, like they're playing the long game. There's just a bottomless pit of money and they don't care about
a return. No, these are these are incredibly savvy businessmen who are expecting a return.
They might have a longer runway.
Than a private equity firm, but it's looking for a quicker return. But they obviously do want a return at some point. The PGA Tour scheduled right now if you look at the signature events and these full field events, and like, I'm obviously curious to see how it's going to go in twenty twenty four. I do kind of like the cadence that they've come up with, and I
think it could potentially be a success. It's but it's hard to imagine that it could be a success where you're somehow returning a billion dollars right in revenue all of a sudden for the PGA Tour, just because you have the top players playing together more often, Like, there needs to be whole sale changes to the PGA Tour model.
I don't know how you feel how it should be, but like, in my opinion, the PGA Tour has to be scaled down to like a twenty five event schedule, just the best, the best, almost every top player would be playing because it's not too heavy of a workload you think you would have. You would borrow some of the European Tour's best events and incorporate them into kind
of this worldwide schedule. You would have some element of team golf sprinkled throughout the year, similar to what the Ramcode series is for the l E t That is potentially a way that you could get a return, right you have you have companies that either the own the teams or invest in the teams, Like, that's a great.
Way to do it.
So that is what you know, pieing the sky stuff the PG Tour should look like. But those are really difficult decisions to make. Like, there are clearity charities who are involved here. There are sponsors who want to put on a PGA Tour event. Right they're willing to pooney up eight nine, ten million dollars to put on a regular PGA Tour event. But if you're j Monahan or you're Tiger Woods and you're saying, no thanks, keep it.
We're good here and we're just going to scale.
Down the schedule, it's it's hard to imagine they could get to that place, even though I think that's the place that they eventually need to get to.
Yeah, I agree with that sentiment, and I think the reason that you take on you know, it's insane to be talking about this, the reason you take on a couple billion dollars is that so you can say, hey, we're rethinking our broadcast, we're rethinking where we go with our tournaments, we're rethinking our entire structure of this of this tour, and we're doing that because we have enough
money in the bank to do whatever we want. Like this is effectively you take on the money to reset the PGA tour as we know it and come out with a new structure. It is not This is not like a put a band aid on the situation, like, hey, we got a bunch of money in and we're going to redistribute it to all the players. That's not what's happening. And I think there's like some belief on tour that that's what's happening.
Right, So just like just like making the just like making the pebble event like a thirty million dollar person like that's that. That doesn't that doesn't do anything. Like you have the exact same players you're going to have, regardless they're just getting paid just a boatload more.
That's not that's not what these like, that's not what a private equity company is interested in. Right, they are interesting, I agree, just paying the players for.
And making the same more entertaining product. The question is how do you get there? And do you have the right people on the board with that sort of vision who can do it?
Yeah, and I.
Agree, Like to me, it doesn't it doesn't make sense that there's forty five or forty seven whatever the exact number of events there are, right, It's just you know, if I turn on the TV, and I think, like Rory's Rory's said this a lot of times, like if
I turn on the TV. It was particularly like after Delaware, like I should know that Rory Jordan Speith, Uh, you know, Patrick Cantley, Xanderschoffley, John Rahm, Scottie Scheffler, I should know every time I turn on PGA Tour Golf, those are the guys playing, right, and you turn it on, you know at r SM lovely event, Right, r SM lovely event. Super convenient for guys, But it's like, who am I watching?
Like this is and this is like kind of the it'd be like if they if they televise you know, uh, Canadian Football League games as NFL games.
They do, like well they they do? They do you televise those I'm saying, I'm.
Saying like it. But it was when you went on your TV guide it said NFL football and you're like, oh, NFL football and you clicked on it, and then it's the Canadian Ball League, right. Like That's so I think like in terms of how you get there, the Worldwide Tour makes a lot of sense, right, Like the markets that you should be going to are the big markets and are there twenty five massive markets across the world that would that can pay up for a big event?
And could it be a real schedule that you go to. I think like one of the things that's super interesting that you talked about is like the idea of cities
and franchises and teams. Obviously Live you know is doing the team thing, but the Joe Ogilvy was on on this podcast and he talked about the idea of like cities having franchises, like the franchise tournament and you have a tournament course in your city, and it's like everything's built around this, right, And that's like you start to build more equity, right, Like the pros play this course once a year. Everybody knows thet It's kind of like becomes like the F one. You start to hear these
like the F one fans. I'm not like a big F one person, but I like I kind of pay attention to it. But it's like, oh, they're going to to this city that tracks like this, it's super favors this, Like you know, all of a sudden you start to
build like value more value in these tournaments. Then it's just like the like right now, it's kind of crazy right, Like it's like it's the RSM Classic right, Like what you know the sponsor is getting value for that, but like what value is the PGA tour getting for that? Like they they don't have an identity. This sponsor changes.
It's like the NAPA event, I don't even you know, it's like is it the Fortinet still it was the safe Way, it was the Fries Like you are doing your brand disservice, like when you have all these changes, right, Like imagine if like you know, the University of Georgia Bulldogs like change in their name every three years because they have sponsor change, right, and I think think this is the thing with this opportunity is it's resetting the whole deck and it's you know, I think like as
a golf fan, the last couple of years have been really hard for golf fans because of like everything going on. I do think like this this framework thing is super probably a little bit annoying, could be a little bit boring. I think that like at the end of the day, it's very exciting because you could get when the dust settles, end up with like a way better version of pro golf than we've ever had. Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Club Champion, this is the biggest sale
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Yeah, I mean, if you listen to Jordan's peace press conference on Tuesday, like he's he said, he has full confidence that the PGA Tour will end up in a better place than it's ever been. The PGA Tour has just never done scarcity particularly well. They've always had a bloated schedule. They want to dominate. They said, if we got sponsors who want to put up the money, like,
we're going to have a tournament. If they don't play on the PGA Tour, they're going to go play somewhere else, whether it's in Europe, whether it's in Africa, whether it's Australia, whatever the case may be, and so you might as well put on a tournament. Their ethos has always been to cater to the members of the pg Tour. Now we've started to see that shift a little bit in recent years, right by catering to the top fifty whatever
it may be, with these signature events. It just they need to lean into it, like the PGA Tour should be basically the elitist golfer, like the absolute best golfers in the world, whatever that number is, whether it's seventy five, whether it's one hundred, and they play these twenty five events, and they play them around the world, and they're playing
for a lot of money. And I do think the team element, Like did you hear the Jay Monahan CNBC spot on Wednesday, Like he was talking not if they're going to get a deal done with PIFF when and it's going to be this combo deal with the PIFF and a private equity firm and they're both going to be pumping money into the PGA Tour. That leads me to believe that that Live will just be reincorporated into the PJ Tour schedule. I see what you're saying with
the with the kind of the city model. I think they're intrigued by what Live has done with with the team model, and there certainly is interest there. I still think like when it comes to Live, like lives more interesting off the golf course, whether it's the free agency talk, whether it's the threat of relegation and what's going.
To happen to you know, That's what what I'm worried about.
That's a that's a burning question. At the forefront of my mind as well. But like so I think I think.
That Richard done in the off season, right, what was holding it up?
But like if I if you're the PJ Tour and you can get the best players, right, if you can have kind of this Dallas area team with a Jordan Speeth and a Scottie Scheffler.
And a Tom Kim and.
A Will zal Tours, right, Like if if that's your Dallas Area live slash PGA Tour team, Like I do think there's potential there, And if you can scatter that either throughout the PGA Tour schedule or put it in the fall where it's kind of this four to six event.
Showcase series. Like, I do think there's potential there.
The PGA Tour has just never done scarcely well, and they would have to make really hard decisions to pare down their schedule to get to a place that I think would most benefit fans and make it the most entertaining product possible.
Yeah, saying no is a hard, hard thing. I think, Like what would excite me is the idea of taking Okay, we're taking away events on the PGA Tour, right or whatever you want to call it, we're taking away events. We're making this a lot smaller, a smaller schedule, but we're expanding what is today the corn Ferry Tour and the PGA Tour B And I think there's a way
for them. I think obviously what you guys have done at Golf Channel with the college game and starting to elevate the college game, they have the structure to be able to make a very compelling second level tour, and you make it super compelling with real relegation and promotion, like not like this golden like one of the other challenges the tour has. It's like they like are never It's like you lost your card, but you still have conditional status.
Yeah, you know, likes be like a shorter window for for these guys, Like it's got to be like a lifelin.
Well, I think it's got to be like your in or you're out right like relegation relegation, right, And I think like that's like because that's gonna make the promotion really exciting, and it's going to make event to event really exciting as to who's on the cut line. Like last year, Justin Thomas doesn't make the playoffs.
If you have you want Justin Thomas and Adam Scott to no longer be a part of the PG Tour in this new model.
Yeah, like and then all of a sudden you can't well you've got he's finished, like what fifth or six in the pit. I'm just saying, then you have real juice. It's the way the Premier League works. Like teams get relegated, and it's like the fear of God of relegation for fans. For like it's like, I mean Justin Thomas is playing poorly,
Adam Scott's playing poorly, they might get relegated. That is just like when you talk about general interest in the sport, how do you make somebody care about an event that is the most people can care, right, And and it also boosts your your bottom, your product underneath, because all of a sudden, there's interest in every event that Justin Thomas is playing on beach PGA Tour b is like, can Justin Thomas like get back up? Like this is
this is insane that he's down there. If you had cutthroat real relegation, I think that the sport has so much interest we can week out and you could have like the way golf is. I think like there's this other illusion with PGA tour players, this off season thing. They all wanted off season, but then none, like this year they had an off season. None of all of them are playing.
I mean most most of them have have sprinkled at least some sort of start. But you like you had Max and JT going to Africa, you know, obviously for for a hefty appearance fee, but like a Scotti, Scheffler has literally gone away since the Ryder Cup. He actually took a break, like he popped the money playing play.
Took.
But I also think I also think PG tour players, especially elite PG twre players, they're a little bit paranoid in thinking like if if they don't play ye for three months, like all of a sudden, their magical gifts are going to wag. So like I actually think Scotty's
six week break was perfect. It was enough for him to go on vacation, go do other things, appear on ESPN, playing pick a ball against the number one player and actually pairing quite well, and then like you start ramping up again and now he's actually excited to play golf. I don't think anyone actually wants a Yeah, no.
I don't want it. I don't want it. You don't want it. The top players don't want it.
But we need we just need scarcity and a chance to catch your breath throughout the year. Like it all comes down to Scarcy, I'm with you. I think there are too many PG Tour members. I would I would trim it down from one to twenty five two hundred. I think seventy five or seventy is probably a little
bit too few. But like I'm with you, scarcity makes a more compelling product in both the players and the tournament's But again, you talk about people, you're talking about people's livelihood, you talk about them losing their jobs.
You're intentionally threatening their careers.
Show you're turning down one hundred plus million dollars.
They're going to play if they if they don't. If you have this relegation system, they're going to play a lot of events. There's twenty five of those events. Let's just say in the purse is four million bucks or whatever, and you have checkpoints through the year that people go up and down, Like if there's a quarterly relegation promotion piece to this, I think it's like extraordinarily compelling. Like one of my biggest gripes with the with the designated event is these like THESEUS signature.
Events, these that's five that's five bucks in the jar.
That'd be amazing if they did that to media. We had to contribute every time we miss, every time we didn't PG tour in all caps, we had to donate.
Some of Ben's cupe cup one word.
Yeah. One of the things like they didn't go they didn't go for it with the like, hey, this is how you qualify and only qualifiers are here. Like to me, that was a big miss, right, Like, this is this is stuff that roads to the trust of Atlanto Griffin. Right, this is how you appease everybody is like it is a true meritocracy. We're going with a true meritocracy. I was talking to a someone associated with a signature event recently and I said, hey, I got just like an
off the wall question. Would you would the sponsor have left if they didn't get the four sponsors exemptions. He's like, no, they don't really care about those, like we have to talk about them now, but we don't care about the about the sponsor exemptions. And it's like those sponsored exemptions are under the guise of oh, the sponsor would have done this, but really what it is is like the players want those sponsors exemptions because now it's like Adam Scott,
Jason Day JT. They didn't qualify, which, like in any other sport, you're washed, You're you're out. It's it's the most cutthroat thing in the world. Like look at the NFL. Look what's happening to running backs is like this guy was awesome, but literally he doesn't have it anymore. He's gone. I'd rather have the twenty two year old, right, Like golf.
Golf is the most accommodating and and they I mean they do everything to keep people around, and I get why it's like part of like the fan interest thing, but like if they could just get a little bit more about, hey, performance is the big thing here, I think it would go a long way, because then all these other events have JT Adam Scott Jason Day as the headline stories can get back into the signature events.
And instead we have this world where they didn't qualify, but there's no ramifications for them not qualifying because they're just gonna gobble up every single sponsor's exemption, like if you're if you're a tournament committee and you don't take those guys, you're you're just hurting your tournament, right.
Like I think we're I think we're arguing. I think we're arguing at the same point. Like we saw the uproar from from when they made the playoffs one hundred and twenty five to seventy Like the tours the tour's middle class, Yeah, was was furious because they were potentially jeopardizing them whether the whether the tour can actually make
the decision to limit the number of overall cards. Like I'm with you, like I think there's I think there needs to be a more severe punishment, more compelling relegation. And you do that to me by bringing down the number of cards from one to twenty five to one hundred or ninety.
I think that's the way to go.
I think I think the big question not to not to belabor at this point, like how much confidence any do you actually have that the PGA Tour leadership at the executive level and the board level will actually come up with a solution that's similar to what you're saying, that is more compelling, that is a pair down schedule that does have a more intense and compelling relegation product.
You actually have confidence.
That the group that is in place, who are either longtime PGA Tour players or longtime PGA Tour executives, you think they can actually get to a place in twenty twenty five where that's where that's the PGA Tour present.
I think my hope is in the private equity money that comes in forcing this. I don't think I have hope in the existing leadership. What about you?
I agree with you, Like, if you're bringing in like a Fenway Sports Group, which is one of the firms that's that's bidding to invest in the PGA Tour, like they have experience in promotion and entertainment and branding.
Those folks know what they're doing, and.
In collaboration with a Tiger or a speef like, I think they can get to a place. I think the hardest part is going to be pairing down the schedule and whether they actually want to do that.
And I just you know, real quick, right back to it. You talked about like how the playoffs, how big of a deal, how how arduous it was to go to one twenty five to seventy Immediately, like What were the reactions of at Windhom of going to seventy. What were the general reactions from fans about the change when they saw it play it out?
I mean Justin Thomas was must see TV to see if he can get inside the playoffs. Yes, so like making making this and you didn't and you difficult that at the RSM, which was supposed to be the cutoff right for the one twenty five that was essentially the new Windhom Championship, right, like like that's where the new cutoff is. And you either have the to the corn for a tour, you gotta go to Q school, whatever the case may be. Like you didn't have that same
sort of buzz now. Is seventy Is seventy cards too few for the PGA Tour probably, Like you still have to fill out these fields somehow.
That's why I think ninety or one hundred is a little bit better.
But I'm I'm I'm with you. I think we're I think we're totally in agreement here.
Yeah, It's like I think just in general, last point is like why people are drawn to sports in general is the moments of people, the tension and the moments of these unbelievable athletes overcoming obstacles. And so if you think about sports just from that lens, what you need to make the PGA Tour have is tension and obstacles. And and with with the current system, there's no tension.
There's like JT could play terrible for like six years, like, oh, he could be the he could be the twelve hundred thranked player in the world and he's still going to get starts for six years. Like the length of the clip, Like think about like Smiley's doing an awesome job in the second act of his career, but think about how long Smiley was still getting like eight to ten stars a year when he was like done playing, right, Like you know you see this, And so there has to
be tension. There has to be obstacles for all these guys because that's what's gonna make a really compelling sports product. That's why we love the Majors' there's tension, there's like the courses are you know, present obstacles and you know
there's only four of them. The scarcity of the majors creates this like, oh, if this guy doesn't like I think that's what like the secret sauce of the majors is is that there's only four and there's twenty five players that we feel like that guy's got to get a major or that guy's got to get another major, And it's like, oh, there's only four of them, and there's twenty five guys that we think should get a major this year.
You know, scarcity.
Scarcity is compelling because there's a feeling like if you miss out and you don't nab one by the Open, you gotta sit around and wait for eight and a half months before the Masters rolls around. And then when you get when the Masters rolls around, like the anticipation and the hype and the sense of urgency kicks it again.
Like I all think those are very powerful motivators.
All Right, I gotta ask the cliche question here, like what can Tiger Woods win again?
Can he went again? Oh? Certainly, Yeah, I definitely. I definitely think so.
Working Working against him, though, Andy is the is the fact that he's only playing like these incredibly elite events against the against the very.
Best players, Like we're not talking about.
No, because that's not full FedEx Cup points. And if he wants to qualify for the FedEx Cup, plays playoffs, the culmination of the FedEx Cup season.
That's not how he should go about doing it.
But like so, like the hero is about to start in like an hour and a half, And I thought the last I thought the last two years were really like a monument to Tiger's toughness and his grit and his commitment and dedication, but like it wasn't a fun watch, like seeing him grit his teeth just to get through seventy two holes or to make the cut, or like dragging his right leg up the hills at Augusta National,
Like that was not fun to watch. And so it'd be great if we can get back to a point in twenty twenty.
Four where we're.
Judging his golf and not like his pain tolerance. Like a very compelling question that we could hopefully have answered next year is can he still hang at forty eight years old against players who are half his age, who are bigger, stronger, faster, who hit it farther, who hit it closer, who are better chippers and putters of the golf ball.
Than he is at this age.
And he's really relying mostly now on his IQ and his and his guile. And so I think I think that's the most compelling question. And to hear Tiger on Tuesday, I mean that was one of the most optimistic that we've heard him in a long time. Now. I think a lot of people ran with the you know, I'm trying to play four to six times and you know, played monthly from February until July, like that's been the goal for the past two years. It just has it come to fruition. It's not just playing the semi two
holes of tournament golf. It's it's the ramping up for that. It's the playing, it's the it's the cooling down from that and recovering and then getting ready again. You know, the top players in the world don't have those sorts of physical limitations when it comes to practice of preparation time that Tiger Woods is dealing with. But from a from from a skill standpoint, he could he could certainly still win.
Is just amazing that he wants to play golf, like after all this, Like I can't imagine all the stuff he's gone through and all the stuff he has to do to play golf, Like, you know, like he has to get up like four hours before tea time you got eight tea time he's gonna start getting ready for the round because of all of the body things at like four am, like I mean, like and then when he played, like him playing a tournament round of golf, and I would guess that him playing any round of
golf is like a full day of work for his ramp up to get the body ready and then the cool down like getting the body ready to be done playing golf. Right, It's just I find it just amazing that he still has the will. I think that like speaks the volumes to the level of like competitor he is. Is that like he just he wants to play so badly that he's I don't know how many people would subject themselves to everything he has to do in order to just play golf.
Yeah, I mean you certainly have to admire the grit and the intensity and the dedication to his craft.
I think there's I think there's two things at work.
One is that I don't think he knows how to do anything else. Like now he's obviously more involved in PG tour matters, and I think that's obviously been very fulfilling for him, Like he has enough downtime to really dive into this and the TJL stuff that got obviously delayed for a year. Like that's the sort of thing that can occupy his mind and his time that typically PG Tour tournaments would do as he tried to get ready for that.
And secondly, I.
Think as a as a as a stubborn and a proud champion, they all want to go out on their own terms and on the highest note possible. I think if Tiger knew what he knows now and how his leg is and what would happen in twenty twenty one, like he probably would have walked away after winning the Masters in twenty nineteen. And yet now there's sort of this this this wonderment about him of can I still do it again? Can I put Umpty Dumpty back together again?
It could I sum at the mountaintop one more time, and then I can officially be satisfied and I can be done.
And so that's kind of that's kind of what I.
Think that mountain Top is. Do you think it's a major, Do you think it's a regular PGA Tour event.
I don't think he's going to play enough regular PG Tour events for that to even.
Be a factor.
Like he's probably, like he's probably that's that's that's just like the holy grail for him, Like it's it's it's obviously it's obviously not gonna happen uh at River. But like I wouldn't totally discount him contending at Augusta Nashville. I wouldn't totally discount him contending at an Open championship, like you could do that at advanced age, assuming that
his body can at least stay in one piece. Now if if, if walking, like one of the most foundational aspects of tournament golf is no longer the primary hindrance for him, and he just has to deal with some assorted knee or hip or back pain. Like I think that's actually a boon to Tiger's prospects moving forward.
Yeah, I mean we see him continue to make cuts at Augusta National when he can't walk, So this is like the where you have to have optimism. It's like if he can, I mean we watched him last year. I mean that was like the last the four holes of that of him playing to make the cut was like excruciatingly painful to watch. It was just pouring rain. He was you could he slipped in it. You could tell he just like something got really messed up when
he slipped. And it's just like, if he can make the cut in that state, is it, If he's four shots better, he's in contention.
You know, yeah, Like that's that's what I'm saying, Like, there's that's that's why discounting him if if walking is not the main concern anymore, I think is. I think it's just foolish and and and it'd be an appropriate end if you know, arguably the greatest player of all time, certainly the greatest player that I've seen in my lifetime, he should be the oldest major champion in history.
Like that just feels that just feels appropriate.
Coming for Phil's uh Phi, Phil's title once once again Phil, if Tiger has any say about it, Phil will not have that record to himself. All right, Now for a quick word from ag one. Listen, I I've been battling a little bit of a cold, and you know, really I think back to about a year ago. I wasn't feeling my best. I had just gotten done with a big year of travel. I was I was sluggish. I just didn't I didn't feel great. And lately I've been dealing with a cold with my daughter, and if you're
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Check it out. Now back to Ryan Lavner, all right, I wanted.
To talk about other Tiger, the other stuff other than Tiger, just kind of at the end of the year. What were your three favorite moments from twenty twenty three?
Three favorite moments personally, Like, I think back to the Masters. I did a long story on Sam Bennett, the former y Texas at M player who had great Masters that did work out for me. I thought that was something that like it would run on like a Tuesday or Wednesday and never again. Instead he ended up playing and
like what the penultimate group on the weekend. But seeing Sam Bennett's mom on Friday at the Masters, that was the first time we'd actually spend time in person, Like I did that whole interview over zoom on camera because she had COVID and it was a whole thing and so seeing the impact that that had on her was kind of a great personal reminder.
Of of how many people do read.
Or do listen to us and and actually care what we do. So that was kind of personally satisfying. A couple other b a great story just in general, well.
Thank you, and I would I would kind of package these other ones.
I thought like one of the themes of the I'd be curious if you if you agree was was one of like personal satisfaction and you think of the examples of like Victor Hovelin overcoming a dire weakness in his game to become a complete player and arguably the best player in the world as we sit here on the November thirtieth a Brian Harmon, who this former phenom, this all everything, is a senior player.
I mean, we got we got a big game on set.
Let's let's be honest like like like like validating all the promise from from two decades ago and becoming a major champion and a dominant one at that at the age of thirty six, I thought.
Was really cool.
And then kind of like one of the I think defining moments for me was was Roy mcroy's Ryder Cup you know, we all remember the the tearful exit at Whistling Straights, feeling like he let himself down, feeling like he let his teammates down, all the turmoil and the
tumultuous nature of golf over the past two years. And to see the impact that it had on him in some of the quiet moments when Europe won this past year at Marcos Simone, and to have his best Ryder Cup ever, to be the leading points getter for Europe, just to see the impact that that had on him personally and tears for different reason, you know, one of personal satisfaction.
I thought that was one of the highlights for me at least in this job.
I think, yeah, I think that's those Those are all great moments. I uh, something that made me trigger your Hobland comment. Right, So he becomes this great chipper and almost at the same time, when this player goes from having this glaring weakness to no weaknesses. Right now as we sit here today, it's like, wow, is he the best player in the world? Almost running parent like cross like two ships passing in the night? Is who we thought?
Was this the best player in the world with no weaknesses, having like this giant, gaping hole in their game appear was Scottie Scheffler with the putter, and at the same time, like Hobland, like his arrival was at at the PGA. Really, I think that's where it was like, whoa this guy is. You know, he's getting better, he's doing it under the gun. Everybody kind of thought you're gonna see that he was like he was.
He was second to last group of the Masters though too, like he had a hit a great master's performance as well.
And then obviously the bunker.
Happened at the PGA, but he was in the thick of everything like all year long.
Yeah, and and at that PGA Brooks comes out of like I just think like in general, it's like this what's beautiful about golf as is like it's on it's unconquerable, except for like the only person we've really seen conqueror as Tiger. Right. It's like these fa these these phases and it you know, you saw Brooks at the beginning of the year on that full swing, just like I mean he went to Oman and he shot seventy four,
seventy eight, and it's like, is this guy toast? And he comes back and he wins and it's like this this frigility, the fragile nature of the sport where it's like and then you see it all play out. Brooks comes back, Victor ascends Scotty. Like now it's like can he win? Can he win a major with the putter? Right eight? And like, honestly like something that it gets to me excited. I asked you to put together some things that you're excited about for twenty twenty three. I'm
fascinated about the Xalatorus group. Stick like it like I am. I can't wait to watch the hero today because if Xalatorus has it becomes a plus putter. Is he the best.
Player in the world, Like I'm I'm not gonna do your little silly game of predictions because I'm literally the worst at them possible.
Rex was Rex was giving me grief this week.
My player of the year for twenty twenty three at the beginning of the year was Xander Schoffle.
He is currently winless.
My breakout player, like a player is going to become a household name and just absolutely elevate to the next level was will Zalaturus. Like I thought he'd given himself enough time coming off the injury in the summer.
Of twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two.
All my years are running together, and that obviously wasn't the case with his back giving out on the range of the gust and ashle like that's literally the worst pace possible.
But like I think, I think Will.
Could be You could say that I am.
I've picked Sander.
I've picked Xander to win a major, like every year since his breakout of the twenty seventeen US Open.
Uh. And I sit here at the end of twenty twenty twenty three still waiting. Uh.
Just just a fine point on Willsel tours. Like, I think he is a massive asset to the PGA Tour. I think he is incredibly talented. I think he's is incredibly intelligent. I think his golf course is is golf i q is absolutely off the charts. And if if this broomstick putter, the one that now has resurrected the career of Lucas Glover, it can if it can just turn Wills al tors as you say, into an above average putter, like I think that could unlocked, could un
lock his greatness. And like Wills al Torris has has always been a great player, right, US Junior champion, multiple winner in college, put on a Walker Cup team, like he's he's done a lot in in just a very short window.
You hope that his back is healthy.
You hope that this can kind of get out some of the he b gbs from from inside four feet.
Uh, there's no problem.
I'm sorry for a few though. The thing Ie, one of the things that I love about will Zeld Torris most is that he's got like he's got like a little bit of attitude like it is he has.
There's a competitive there's a competitive arrogance.
It is out of them, and it's like what you what you want from your best players. Like is like somebody that is like there is just supreme, supreme self belief in that man. And I think like that it comes out as like a little bit arrogant, and I think that is a delightful. It's what you want from
your very best golfers. It is something like that Phil Nicholson has and spades, and what makes Phil Michelson so just uh interesting to listen to is that like there's this supreme confidence in real like arrogance about what they can do on a golf course, and I think that that Xel Tours has that. And if the putter, like he doesn't believe he's a bad putter with a regular putter right like he doesn't. It's a problem, which is like.
Like it's like like in if you look at his major championship performance, like he actually does put better when the greens are harder, the greens are faster in the in the the greens are more undulating. His Major Championship performance on the greens is great. I think of will Zel torres Andy. I don't know if you view the same way as like an American version of John Rahm. John ram I would describe as competitively arrogant, but he's not.
He's not disrespectful, he's not boastful on the golf course. But you know, when you see him on the golf course, he knows more than likely he is the best player inside the ropes that day he could hit all the shots.
He's incredibly eloquent when.
It comes to our job and kind of diagnosing the problems of of the day or talking about his round or future matters of the PGA Tour. Like I would put those guys on the same pedestal in terms of uh eloquence off the golf course and uh just incredibly uber talented.
And also insightful inside the ropes.
To me, they're they're they're virtual of the same makeup competitively.
Yeah, I mean I think that that is a huge boon for the PGA Tour to xal Torus back. I mean, like you get you get Tiger back for maybe one tournament a month, and you get will zal Torus back, and they they definitely are in a better spot than they were last year just from a product standpoint, because they are two supremely watchable players. And I mean, like it'll be it'll be really cool to see here. Like I think it breathed some life, Like you get hero
going into December and then right out of it. I assume that what sale Tours is standing. Does he have does the medical get him into the signature events or is he going to be relying on the sponsored exemption?
So there's another he's going to be relying on sponsor exempt, So he's not gonna be he's like he's like to be playing a capoloo. I think he said on Tuesday his first start is going to be at the American Express.
So it's like, as soon as he's back going, it's like, is is this guy? I wonder like with the back? Did that? You know last year he was talking about swing changes right and how he was making some changes, and that's a little scary with like in terms of like what he was before, is that is that ball striking at the same level with what he needs to do to protect the back and then that putter right and all of a sudden, then you might have you know,
you're talking about uh. I think like last year going into the majors, like zeal tors is, like, where is he in terms of the packing order of favorites at a major and it's you know, rom Rory total in Scottie. It's not crazy to think that that will z l. Torris is right there with his major championship pedigree so far.
I mean, you could make the case that will Zel Towrs is the more compelling watch this week at the Hero than Tiger.
Like you know what you're going to get from Tiger.
He's likely to be competitively rusty, having not played in seven months, but you also know he's going to hit enough shots and produce enough speed on enough dribes. They're like, well, like I could see him being competitive in twenty twenty four, But will zl Torris, who is itching and ready to go. He has admitted that he came back too quickly and wasn't one hundred percent healthy when he started in January. He said he cant at all the shots. He's shooting
some super low numbers at home in Dallas. Like he's ready to go. I think he's he's curious to see how he's going to play this week. But no, so, no more serious than than you and I are to see what I believe is one of the best players on the PGA Tour finally go back at it full time?
All right, laugh? What do you got coming up? What do you got to plug?
Well, I was supposed to be. I mean, I'm just talking today.
I want you to know that you've got to be very special to me to throw off my barbecue schedule that I was supposed to have. I was supposed to have a marathon smoking session on my workhorse. Offset has been derailed. We're now we're taping in this now mid morning. So I just want you to know how special you are that I would sacrifice that for you other than that, a bunch of stuff with Rex to close out the year,
a bunch of year end stuff. I'll be covering at least a couple of days of PGA Tour Q school back in the old school days.
Where all the all the dreamers and schemers can.
Actually get their PGA Tour cards that week for Christmas. Yeah, Sawgrass Country Club and Dyes Valley across the street are going to be sharing duties.
I think that's gonna be great.
Like it's it's like those guys aren't going to have great status, but like it's still a cool story to think that if you shoot the numbers, like you could have a PGA Tour card, Like I think.
I think like Eric.
Cole this year, right, Like Eric Coles like should be the poster boy for everything. I mean this time last year he was playing Minor League Tour events, right, Yeah, last year during PGA Tour schedule, he's playing Minor League Tour one thousand dollars still winter the tournaments and uh and now he's now he's in every signature event, right, I.
Like, and like you think of how the you think of how the flow is going to go? Right in twenty twenty four with the fullfield events, if you play well and there's a cutoff, and then you get promoted signature events. Like in theory, theoretically, a guy who earns their card at this PGA Tour Q school, who may have no status anywhere else, somehow parlays.
That into a top fifty spot on the p J Tour.
So that's that's something cool that we'll be looking forward to watching over these next couple of weeks.
I see the blackstone in the background. How much does that eat into like their standard grill? And and and do you have you found since you got that blackstone that you use your regular grill? Very little?
That's grill's plural.
I have five grills in the backyard and that's not to mention the other three that I keep in my in law's place. And so I have I have a blackstone brittle. So you're looking at you know, breakfast, smash burgers, fajitas.
That sort of thing. Uh this direction.
I have a pellet grill, I would like I would actually consider that more like my everyday grill than a blackstone.
I have a drum.
Smoke like grill. Is the every day grill.
Yeah, it's a pellet grill. It's so like, I'm assuming you have a you have a gas grill.
I've got a gas grill and a blackstone. I would love to get another, you know, get a smoker or something.
I feel like I feel like, I feel like you gotta diversify your your grilling options and so like I always say that people do not get it a gas grill, Get a pellet grill. It essentially takes the same amount of time to heat up to your desired temperature, and it's just way more versatile. You could either grill steaks on it, or you can smoke a pork butt for twelve hours. So I would I would definitely invest in a good pellet grill. I also have a Gateway drum smoker. I have a PK charcoal grill.
Uh.
And I have a workhorse offset that's a stick burner.
That you literally feed with with wood splits. And that's just that's just here. I got three more the I got three more in loss house.
That's just just a man and his grilled It's aspirational. Your after kitchen is aspirational.
I mean to me, it's it's therapeutic. This is like I live in Ponta Vidra. This is one of them.
Live.
I live in Nakty.
I live in nays Like this is one of the six months that you actually want to be outside. I was actually thinking when you when you mentioned earlier in the podcast of having like these city teams that that that you can that you can brand and you can have different owners of Like how about a knockety team, how about a nackaty team.
How about how about Tyler Duncans.
Like the Jupiter team. You got San Francisco, l A, Boston, New York, Atlanta.
I could I could be, like I could be like the general manager of this team. It could be Tyler Duncan, hank Ley Biota, Adam shank lives here at least part time. I could I could be I could be the GM, and we could we could we could be tearing up the hot stove season.
Who knows, that's.
Uh you know. I I'd like the team of of of golfers that don't live in uh Panavidra, Jupiter or or Scottsdale or Dallas, like the team of like people that live in other places. Like obviously Leishman would have been like the All Star with the Virginia Beach, you know selection but that Yeah, like no Sea Highland right like you just like you make this team of of golfers who live in just weird places.
DJ Pie is like the is like the GM of the Milwaukee the Milwaukee team.
Yeah, like I think I think we I think we would just love that.
Yeah. So all right, thanks lev And people can follow your work obviously you're you're on Twitter, but the Golf Channel dot com. It's an easy spot to find and listen to the Rex and Lab Show.
Enjoyed it, Andy, Always a pleasure being with you and look forward to doing again in the new year.
Yeah, I'll see you. I'll see you probably at the Masters. I don't know, maybe maybe Riviera.
You can be at riv I will be at riv I look forward to seeing your entry in the Master's Troop.
I know that'll get me excited for the twenty twenty four edition.
All right, see you, see you, see you in La.
Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. Today's episode was edited and produced by Matt Ruschis. Thank you Matt. As a quick reminder, check out Club TFE. This is an awesome gift if you have a friend that's like really into golf, this is a great gift. What we just put up this week, we put up our November monthly member video. It was Angela Moser talking about the new Pinehurst number ten.
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Join Club TF and if you're looking for like a gift for one of your golf go friends. Club TF is an awesome gift. So thank you guys, and we'll be back next week with another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.