I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a.
Fried egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Friday Fridagg Fridagg bride egg.
Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today I am joined by our very own at Friday Golf, Joseph Lamanna. I love to catch up with Joseph every once in a while about pro golf, and uh, obviously we're two majors in to the year. We're often running. Before we blink, the major season will be over and we'll be onto
the highly acclaimed and beloved FedEx Cup playoffs. So the premise of this show is that we are going to ask each other three questions. So I have three questions for Joseph, Joseph has three questions for me, maybe even Pj'll jump in with a question and we will kind of bat those around. Before we get to Joseph, let's chat about perfect practice. Our partners at perfect Practice make the best putting mats around you can purchase them at
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you stack those things, is a good deal. I might buy another one, you know, put one out and in the front yard and create a neighborhood putting Green. All right, thanks, let's get to Joseph Lamania. Joseph, welcome on. I kind of are you a Pacers fan? You're a Colts fan. Are you a Pacers fan?
Wow, You're no, I'm actually not. I grew up a Pacers fan.
I was.
I'm from Indiana.
He left me.
I kind of left them. We were cool when I was a kid, the Reggie Miller days, early two thousand's, late nineties.
Right our town of days.
Yeah, Malice at the Palace. But I think we've been a boring team over the last ten to fifteen years. And I'm not going to be a bandwagon fan. I can't be a fraud like that and jump back on. So I'm a huge NBA fan, but honestly, at this point, I'm probably rooting more for the Timberwolves, even though they're gonna get bounced than my hometown Indiana Pacers. I just like to watch great athletes like Anthony Edwards.
So you're just a generation z just no fandom. I root for the players. The exact thing that's just corroding the integrity of of all sports leagues is no fandom. Just uh yeah, that's sad. That's really sad. It's sad to hear. I'm I'm happy that that the the Pacers are kind of stuffing it in your face. You know, you leave us now, we're gonna be fun. Now we got diarye salvernon or stuffing into the face. But we're not gonna talk NBA basketball. Even though that that that
thunder t Wolves game last night was awesome. That was an amazing game. We are going to chat about pro golf. I think we're all. I prepared three questions for you. You prepared three questions for me. I think they're pro golf centric. I don't know what your questions are minor pro centric for you. And uh, and we're just gonna We're gonna riff on these topics for a little while and uh and see where we go. So, Joseph, do you want the first answer? Do you want to answer
the first question? Or do you want to ask the first question?
I'll go first. I'll go first. Bear with me for a second. I'll try to keep this not super long winded. But my first question for you, Andy, have we entered a little golden era of major championship golf? And what I mean by that is heading into the US Open at Oakmont the top six names on the odds sheet, so Scottie, Rory, Bryson, Rom Xander, and Colin Morikawa. All of those golfers not only have one major to their name, but have multiple majors to their names. And that's not
necessarily unprecedented. We don't have odds going back, you know, all the way through the history of golf. But when you look back at major championship windows, the period that comes to mind, like between two thousand and two thousand and six, you sort of have a similar dynamic where you have Tiger, Ernie, Phil VJ like all of their primes coinciding and trading blows in major championships between two thousand and two thousand and six, So that's twenty eight
majors held that subset of names win sixteen majors. Maybe if you include somebody like Ratief, he picked off two, so that gets you to.
Herring ens in there too, herringf.
Three, Harrington's in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, so like that's, yes, we're worth calling out. But then after that that period of two thousand and nine to twenty and twenty two and sort of twenty twenty three. Almost every year you have like a one hit wonder type of golfer. There's a couple years where it's like twenty fourteen you have Rorty twice. You have Kimer who wins a second, and you have Bubba who wins a second.
But those aren't Kimer and Bubba. Aren't that like Hall of Fame class player that somebody like a Colin Morikawa, John Rahm Bryson, those names are. So I do think we are in a rare period where the top contenders. It is very likely over the next three to four years we have all these golfers in their primes. I would be surprised if they aren't winning half of the major championships. And then before that, just I guess for
a little historical context. The other period that I see that's sort of like that is kind of the seventies and the eighties where you have a lot of those Trevino primes overlapping Jack Nicholas, Tom Watson, Sevy Gary Player, Ray Floyd Hale, Irwin like those, A lot of those golfers primes overlap. But this is you have these cycles in golf where a lot of generations there are windows and there are overlaps and we are in one right now where we have six seven if you include JT.
Great golfers with multiple majors under their belts entering each major, as you know that top five to eight set of favorites, you got a smile on your face. Where are you going with this?
I'm just wondering if there's a question.
Do you think we've entered a golden era of major champs?
They cuculaid out the case for me. I don't have to, you know, I think like, do you agree? I think the way that I would I would think about this is and I've noticed that the last few majors, and it's been a recent phenomenon where you get into the major and you get going and it becomes where is Scotty? Where is Rory? Where is rom Where is a player of that ilk? Where's Bryson? And that to me is
signaling that is the top of the leader board. And this is not supposed to be disrespectful of other great players, but I think of like Thurston Lawrence at last year's Open. I think about even Billy Horssechell at last year's Open.
I think about you know, at the you know, the at the at the Masters, you think about players around the lead, you know, even like even Justin Rose, and you know, you know, outside of Bryson, I think like the Justin Rose think kind of backdoored in he I don't think he necessarily thought he could win, and he surged up the leader board, right, But like you get to this, you're getting to this point where it's starting to become and feel like who whichever one of those
guys is the highest up, is the actual leader of the tournament because you don't think that the their competitors can hang onto the rope long enough to really beat them down the stretch on a Sunday. And I think it's like, what's what's common with all of them outside of Morokawa is that all of them possess a good deal speed and the ability to really dominate a golf tournament with their driver. They both they all can be
border on elite. If not, they just live an elite approach play territory, and you know their their power with the off the tee very little bit. But like the ones that aren't super elite with their irons can be can be extraordinarily elite with their driver, right, where they they they that you know, covers any difference between being you know, very very good with the approach play to great.
And then you also couple the fact that they all have really good short games and can get really hot with the putter outside of like you know, like even Scotty now is it's top twenty putter in the world, like right, where So you put to these guys together and they're just they're just all around awesome players, Like they are great at everything when they're cooking, and you start to like look at other players, like, you know, you think about the players that are just on the
cusps below Tommy Fleetwood, like can't really dominate. Of course off the tee, the putter is not great, right, other two parts of the game pretty good, really good, you know, but you know those two things you look at even a Justin Thomas, and this is one of my questions with Justin is for you with Justin Thomas, but like that driver always seems to get him in trouble, you know, whether it's like a wild T shot, a wild t shot there, like maybe he can't drive the ball well
enough to win the biggest tournament is a question I have, you know, you go down the list, you get to Deki Matsuyama, like the putter's always an issue, can can do from tee to green what all those other guys do, But like you have to get like a fluke putting
performance for him to enter the all round sphere. So you start to like kind of look at these players, and they have they have separated themselves, And I think the only question is who's gonna be the next player that enters into this realm of like all around excellence? Is it Ludvig a Obert? Like is he the next guy that jumps into the all around excellence you know
kind of bucket. I think you want to see some more stuff from him from a from a consistency standpoint and like you know, around in approaching the greens.
Yeah, And I guess to turn this into more of a question than a statement that we're in the golden era of majors, do you think that there's a a level of being a prisoner of the moment or two to three years from now, do you expect it to be that set of six golfers trading blows still? Because I think there's a case to be made on both sides there.
Well, I think golf's always cyclical, so much of what you look at changes quickly, and like the best way to look at this is the best way to frame it is the twenty twenty two, twenty twenty one US Ryder Cup team where we you look at that team and it's like, oh my god, this team is stacked. All these guys are going to be around like everything written was like, all these guys are going to be around forever. This team, you know, Europe has no chance of winning a Ryder Cup in a long time because
of how dominant this team is. And it's like that team was, you know, anchored by DJ and Brooks, and I think right now they're kind of long shots. There's also players like you know, Tony Finow, who's probably a long shot to make this team this year. You have Jordan Speith, who's right now like thirty first in the rankings. You have you know Pat Reid, who knows what that'll be, Daniel Berger, you know, like all in the mix. But then like the last guy on that team, Pat Reid
was not on the team. He was snubbed. He was like the snub pick for the last guy that was picked on the team Scheffler, who's now like, without a doubt, head and shoulders the best American golfer.
You know.
So it's like the cyclical nature of golf. Usually, I think players operate in two to three year windows. Like a normal player operates in two to three year windows. Great great players operate in ten to fifteen year windows, and like the rare outliers operate in like thirty year windows, as we've seen with Phil, we saw with Jack, we're seeing with with Rory McElroy is getting into that into
that twenty year window. But like if you start to draw some lines in the sand, right, like we're already ten years into Jordan Speed, We're almost ten years into Justin Thomas. If we look at you know, these other guys right that that you mentioned John Rahm, we're you know, six seven years into that. It's seven years probably, I would say, is a fair number into into John Rahm,
Bryson to Shamba. I think you probably draw the line at like twenty nineteen is the start of him being twenty eighteen being like really, you know good, So you're you're getting into set year seven, And I think that becomes a question. So like if you if you're there already three years from now, you're your ten of Bryson, and it could be he continued, like I kind of think he's going to continue to get better for a little while. I think like this has a lot to
do with like where where is golf right now? Are we are we resetting to kind of a normalization of how the sport works or are we still in this like tremendous youth wave because the last two generations have been dominated by youth. Right That's been like kind of the the story of golf is like, look at all these young stars. But the question I have is when do we return Because we are going to return to where guys are better at age thirty three than they
are at twenty three. We are going to return to to some some semblance of that because like to me, guys are learning how to hold garner speed, hold on to speed, and like that's been like the biggest trend I think in the last few years is like the ability to hold on to speed. But then you also get the benefit of having like a extremely great golf
brain and experience matters. And you watched it at at Colonial last week with Maddy Schmid just hitting like incomprehensible shots in the wind, Like it's like, oh, he just like literally doesn't know how to hit him knockdown shot, and like that's that's the stuff that you pick up when you're thirty three or you're twenty eight. And I think we're going to see careers shift back, and I'm just wondering, are we there with this generation?
Yeah, I would almost potentially challenge that it was dominated by youth, Like were digging into that a little bit. I mean there's definitely instances of that, right Speeth and JT when they arrived on the scene. Those are good examples. But I think where we are seeing right now a lot of golfers playing their best golf ages twenty eight to thirty five. I think there are a couple of great examples this year like a JJ Spawn, a Russell Henley, a Keegan Bradley playing good golf in their mid to
late thirties. And so that's where I am. I'm nervous or cautious about being a prisoner of the moment, but I think there's a unique dynamic in golf right now having Scottie Rory, Bryce and Romin Xander and Colin all twenty eight to thirty one, with the exception of Rory who's thirty six. It feels like we're set up for a four to five years stress true of true all
time great. It's not, you know, not necessarily they're all going to be top fifteen to thirty players of all time, but they're all gonna win multiple majors, them all in their primes, playing that best golf of their careers, like
you're mentioning in that prime window. So I would almost I'd feel pretty confident predicting that that group of golfers will take down the majority of majors in the next of the next three to four years, especially if you include this year or last year two where they've already taken six straight.
Yeah, And I think, like what's crazy to be is like Phil one is first major at age thirty four. VJ. Singh won his first major. I mean he wasn't. I don't think he played on the PGA Tour until he was like thirty five, you know, So you know when you look at that, like it's the games changed so much in terms of like you and the ability to get to the PJ and it's one.
Technology TrackMan in driver heads.
Track man in driver heads and the ball that doesn't spin that requires so much less shot making. And I don't want to be like, I'm thirty nine, all right, I'm like in the era I played both equipment. I know exactly what the difference was. The I don't want to be old man yelling at the clouds. And I do think like the level of athlete that we have
today is at a extraordinarily different level. Like the way they take care of their bodies, the way they they take care of like their nutrition is at an extraordinarily different level than when I watched started watching pro golf. But the answers to the test are remarkably easier than they used to be, which is that's why the sport
got so young for a while. But I'm wondering, if we've hit like a kind of a cap of where for now where, how how much it's not getting easier for the college kid now than it was for the college kid eight years ago, if that's going to push that age back up where experience does matter again. So if that's the case, like so if if you operate under that premise that it's not it hasn't gotten easier in the last five years for college kids and in
you know, juniors. If you operate under that premise, then I would I would guess that we're going to see more long careers and more more players playing at an extremely high level into their mid to late thirties. The other thing is the money's normalized, right, like where being really rich and like it it's not like a newfound
thing like it was. I think like in the in the mid two thousand, they're like the right after the Tiger thing where like guys know they're going to be rich if they get to the top and then it you know, I think just generally that's going to yield longer careers and you're gonna have guys that flame out really quick when they get their ten million dollars. I'll uh,
you know, I'm just not gonna name names. I don't want to throw anybody under the bus, but like they're going to get their ten million and be set and they're going to flame out, But like the the guys that are at the top of the game are just going to keep going. So yeah, I don't I guess that's like the bet is because the other side of the coin is, like you watch the NCAAs this week, and you say, holy shit, look at this speed coming.
It's just getting faster. They're going to control it better, and these guys are going to get unseated by just better players. Like that's the You could run that opposite direction and say that, and I think that's absolutely true too.
Yeah. The only other point that I would add, and we've spent a lot of time on question one, it seems like a pretty safe assertion that the difference between regular tour golf and major championship golf has never been bigger in terms of course setup. You know that you have the sub air at Quail Hollow absolutely humming, and majors having so much attention put into the setup. The you know when there's rough, it being super thick rough,
firm greens, prioritizing firmness at all costs. And then the regular weekend and week out tour stops where you got to get if it's a full field one hundred and twenty one hundred and forty players through, that dictates set up. So I do think we're in a period where technology,
subair systems, you know, so much agronomic development. Major championship setups are much different than regular tour stop setups, probably more than at any point in history, and that I would imagine only favors those more experienced players and brings out the guys who are truly skilled. So I'm kind of expecting that set of five or six golfers to
dominate for the next four to five years. Maybe one of them or two of them will drop out, but I think we're in a unique period in golf where we're going to see domination from a small subset of golfers.
Bonus question, who would you expect to jump into that group? If of a name that's not in there right now, Blood Big, that's I think that would probably be the consensus. And it makes sense obviously, like he's already had like immense success at a guest to National, which is you know, the one that you go to every single year, right
all right? My first question to you, and we touched on it a little bit, is JT back we did a podcast like to preface this, I think we're at a really interesting point in JT's career last year after his kind of second by his standards down year in a three year window, and the real question was, like what the question of the podcast was what is JT? And we sketched out a couple things, and if I had to, like, I think the best case scenario has played out over the last you know, four months of
five months of PGA Tour golf. Where do you view JT right now?
I think when we did that pod, if my memory is correct, I think I said his ceiling was close to being maybe not absolute ceiling, but like a ninetieth percentile outcome would be that he's the eighth to twelfth best player in the world. And I think early in this year it looked like potentially he was the fourth or fifth best player in the world. But I do think as we've seen some major championship golf, Justin has
settled into that eight to fifteen range. And the way I view Justin, I think there's certain players that are kind of hard to always nail down exactly what their skill set's going to look like weekend in week out. JT's pretty easy for me, and you've already mentioned it that driver gets wild and can be a problem to where he is giving up on a demanding off the
tee setup. He's he can't keep up with Scottie Scheffler with John Rahm, with Rory, with Xander, with Ludwig, and somebody could say, well he wont at the RBC Heritage at Harbortown, like you can't spray it out there. That's true, but you also take a lot of less than driver
off of the tea out there. And I think similarly at Colonial, like we just saw Maddy Schmid, who's got a lot of speed, not the most accurate player, he could kind of get away with hitting a lot of less than driver off of the tea at those types of setups. And so we've seen Justin Thomas have some of his best finishes Thalspar. Another course, you take a lot of less than driver off the tee. The AMX pretty friendly set up at PJ West, a lot of
room off the tee, a lot of wedges. So I see JT clearly outside of that group of the top five to six, somewhere in the eight to fifteen range and not a true threat in major championships right now because he cannot keep the driver consistently in play and it's gonna bite him once or twice around with a big miss. So I mean, he's hitting fifty seven percent of his fairways this year that's bottom half of the tour.
But beyond just a fairway percentage, it's those big misses, those sprays where you're hitting something three hundred and fifteen yards off line that I just think will bite him more off and than it's gonna bite those top drivers of the golf on the world. So I think our of our evaluation of him being kind of an eight to fifteen in the world type of guy is accurate. I think that's right where he is.
I think like NBA and pro golf is always like a good comp because the NBA is so superstar driven, and I think like if you if you were comparing JT in the NBA, he would not be like a tier one superstar where you're you're talking about like your Jokic, your SGA, you know, even you know Luca Jason Tatum, you know type thing like if you're doing this, like you can't go to like number seven and be like, yeah,
you know, he's he's the level of Anthony Edwards. No, like he's more of like your like best player on a on a team that's like a six or you know, like a you know, sixth seed in the West or in the East, in the East, right, like maybe even a seven or eight seed, because like there's so many more players in the NBA you have to remember than the PGA Tour, so you have to like kind of
push down on it. But like he's like a you know, he's I don't know, I'm thinking like Devin Booker, right, can't carry a team, but like he is, you know, it's like the quintessential thing about JT is like it's been so puzzling why he hasn't played well at Augusta National. But you listen to them Scottie Scheffler talk about Augusta National and he talks about like how precise you have to be off the tee even though there's a lot of space, Like you have to get it into the
right spot. And that's the thing he can't do at a high level right now with the driver is he just cannot. He cannot play over seventy two holes at an elite level at a at a golf course that supremely tests your capabilities of driving the golf ball. And that's like that's the difference right now between him being way up there because the putter is as good as ever been and I think like one of the other
things I really respect about JT. And something I was thinking about is like I've seen his dad around way less this year, and I think, like, it's always so good when a player takes ownership of their golf swing. And I think JT Xander like if you go down the list, like if you go down the list of the best players in the world, like Randy Smith is there, but like Scotty has the ability to self correct as we saw during the PGA, like that that was all
like ownership in knowing your swing. Rory McElroy never has a coach really around, right, like maybe Faxon on the greens, but like Michael Bannon, he works with him like siloed off. Week of a tournament, no coach around Bryce of Deshambeau like he has worked with instructors. You know, there's Mike Schi, there's Chris Como, he's worked with, but week of a tournament, no coach around. He owns his game. John Rahm similarly owns his swing, owns his game. Nobody's like you don't
like to me. There is something about like that self reliance, not being able to turn around point the blame that that brings a different level of golfer out. Really the only player that like has made a lot of waves about you know that we just talked about at the top level with like their coach is is Colin Morikawa, who's like kind of jumped around coaches for a while. But I would tell you that, like they the story on the course with those guys is never about like
what their instructor is doing. And I think like more players on the PGA Tour should look at that because like Justin Thomas, he's really i think reinvigorated his game and nothing like for years the story was always Mike Thomas, like, oh, there's there he is with his dad. Same thing with Xander. Xander went to a new level the more you obviously
he was he was working. I think it was with Chris Como too, but like he's taken like he There's this idea of owning your golf swing that I think gets underlooked by like the ability like these guys can have a coach with them all the time and it
becomes a crutch. It becomes a like the you reached the highest level that you can be in the sport when you are are self reliant from an instruction standpoint, and I think like those like you, all those top guys, like they could go to a tournament without their swing coach and be perfectly fine, and.
Most of them do, probably and as well. Definitely an especially relevant point with Augusta National, where there is limited coach access but inside the ropes, which golfers have talked about that it is a different I've heard some guys complain about that, that you can't have your swing coach with you, and if you if you're a golfer who gets obviously they're all very routine oriented, you get thrown off by that, it could impact your performance. So I
do think that's a relevant point. Andy, I guess to zero in a little bit, where are you exactly with JT? Like I would say, at a setup like Oakmont, very driver or heavy can't completely spray it. I'm pretty comfortable saying that Justin Thomas is not a threat to win that golf tournament. The same way, I really didn't feel particularly positively about him entering Quail Hollow, another driver heavy total driving a test examination, So I don't think he's
too much of a threat to win at Oakmont. Where are you on that?
I think I'm in a similar vein for him to win a major championship, I think the rest of this year and you know, you go extend into next year. Like aronomy could be a golf course where he might be able to get away with driving it a little so so, right, but you know, particularly Oakmont, like he just would have to have the best driver week of
the year, which is not inconceivable that can happen. He can get if he got into a rhythm and felt really good about the driver and had maybe one or two big misses, he'd be okay.
You know.
The other the other thing, I think there's like enough space at Oakmont, like they've they've but like the reality, you know, one thing Oakmont could do is it could you know, if he drives it well, he's got to drive it really well. But like the idea of like it punish is going to punish everybody and people are gonna miss Like there could be like an element of like if he plays really smart from his misses, he
could do this. Like it seems to me like the what we're at with like JT is like there's just like eighteen holes, Like there's a there's an eighteen hole stretch in majors that just like subsequently subsequently kills him, you know, and then he'll have eighteen holes where he's the best player on the golf course. And and so I just like there's just, you know, golf so much about about consistency. Like every great player all they want
to be is more consistent. And that's the thing that JT just has to be more consistent of the tea.
Yeah, I guess while we're there, really good test at Mirfield Village to see where JT's off the tea game stacks up. Can't spray it there. So I think coming into the US Open, that's a great litmus test of where his driver is.
All right, what's your next question?
All right, I'll go, how do you explain Patrick Cantlay? It is a because with certain golfer the punchline obviously major championship performance horrific. In his career five total top tens and thirty three major starts. He's won Memorial twice, He's won two BMW's, a Tour championship in Great at Ryder Cups, stinks in major championships, and he hasn't even been relevant, like outside of Pinehurst where last summer he
had a little taste near the lead. Patrick Cantlay hasn't even been relevant in major championships, and he has a well rounded skill set. It's not like a guy whose games should only set up for regular tour stops. So andy, how do you make sense of a career like Patrick camp It is confounding to me.
It's a great question. You know, up until recently, like last year, one of my favorite stats was like no major championships, most weeks in the top ten, and I think that's he's out of that now. If you google most weeks in the top ten, maybe PJ can google this. While I'm talking most weeks in the top ten of the OBJR, there's a Wikipedia page. I mean, he ranks like right around like Luke Donald, Ricky Fowler, and yet
he doesn't. I don't think it talked about in the same vein like this was like a bona fide top five player for a couple of years and he didn't crack an egg in a major. You know, I guess you could say, like the Master the Tiger Masters, he had a chance, roughly bit a chance, like you know, like you could have talked yourself into like maybe he's to win this tournament on the back nine. But I think, like I think he's accomplished a lot of other stuff.
He's had a crazy career, like a crazy career in terms of like age nineteen, back injury, personal tragedy, like back injury that almost like you know, like I I think in the Ryan Labner piece that he wrote about about you know, his comeback, right when it came out, it was a great piece to like revisit probably eight years ago. You know, I think he was like considering what he was going to do with his life outside of golf, and this was like at age nineteen, everybody's like,
holy cow, this is like the next big thing. I just some of it I would chalk up to variants, like sometimes you just don't play your best golf the week you have to. And one of the hard things about pro golf is that there's four weeks a year, as we're talking about Patrick Cantley, that really defined your career, and he hasn't done it in any of those four weeks, like to an extent of like one or two performances where you're like, okay, like maybe he could do that.
There's been like two majors where you walk away with like, Okay, Patrick can't like can win a major. I would point to like, you know, and I don't know, this is like a completely off the cuff theory. He's always been He's been an incredible driver of the golf ball without incredible swing speed. And I wonder if there's any corollary to a certain threshold of swing speed in this era
that we're in that yields major champions. And like, when I think about that, like specifically swing speed, where swing speed is going to help you the most is when you drive it off the fairway it is. And also where swing speed can help you at the most is approaching really firm greens, Like that's going to give you the ability to hit that real towering iron shot into
induce into firm, tough greens. And one of the questions I might have, and this is just theoretically based, is like is is Patrick Can'tley just like a really good golfer and never was a really great golfer. And PGA tour setups do don't really differentiate between really good golfers and really great golfer as well.
I think in those are reasonable counter arguments, but then the pushback I would give is well, first of all, Patrick Cantley, it's got a sneaky amount of speed, like he's a one eighty ball speed guy this year.
But I think it's not from swing speed, So that's from like that's from like he he just like he hits it so freaking solid and he produces a lot of speed where he's optimized like this is I've always been so impressed with the speed he he he gets to with with middle of the road swing speed.
That that would be. That's an interesting angle, I would I'd be curious. Maybe I'll dig into that and like is it coming from shots out of the rough in Majors that he just doesn't have enough swing speed to hoist it up into the ear? All right, I'll take.
The other thing is like he doesn't he doesn't have like a steeper angle, like he's kind of he's not flat, but he's like I mean, he's got a great golf swing, but like you see, like JT is a great rough player because of like how high his hands get at the top of his swing, like versus Rom who's kind of like more flat and laid off, like like he gets through rough with sheer power, not with technique and and Patrick Cantley's kind of in between those without a
lot of speed or power, right, He garners, he garners his his ball speed's incredible because of how like he's middle of the road swing speed. It's just like, oh, this guy just hits the dead center of the face every single time. And that's what's amazing to me about about Cantley.
I like you're giving a concrete potential theory. I think again, some of the pushback would be will he's won a couple big demanding setups, like the two BMW's he's won, well, I guess one of them in particular, Caves Valley was kind of a bomber's rough, and he's won a tour championship East Lakes kind of in that ILK. Memorial is not a bomb and gouge type of setup. So his two wins at Memorial don't necessarily dispel the notion that you're offering. I think that's an interesting thing to look at.
It probably doesn't fully explain why he can't even contend, but yeah, that's a satisfying explanation. Might have to dig into that a little more. Just still a confounding career that He has five top tens and thirty three major starts. Cordy Connors has five top tens and twenty six starts. Like Cordy Connors has put together as good of a major championship track record as Patrick Canlay, he doesn't have a ton of speed.
Is is can't lay like a modern day st Stricker?
I mean is he is he a tracking? Is Joaquing Neeman tracking like a Patrick Cantlay is like another Like it's kind of it's kind of interesting to look at those differences. Yeah, Steve Stricker is an interesting name to throw out too.
Yeah, the you know where he played well the Old Course in twenty twenty two. He obviously had the Masters in twenty nineteen he was closer there. So twenty nineteen PGA Championship, where was that at?
Twenty twenty nineteen is Bethpage. Beth Page, Beth Page twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen is Bellerief.
So twenty nineteen in twenty eighteen play he's played his best at at the It looks like the PGA really.
But Beth Page is he's way back right? That that was you know Brooks. Indeed, he wasn't come super competitive.
Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting to look at right where where he's played the best, where he's the best chances. He played well last year at Pinehurst T three. Yeah, non competitive though never he was in it. He was kind of in it, right, he was playing with Rory on the final day. He was competitive, I guess there sort of.
Yeah.
I never felt like he was gonna win, but sort of. So yeah, that's my second question.
But that's a golf course without rough.
Some people would argue have played pretty bomb and Gougee. I would disagree, but yes, I'm with you, all right, what's your what's your second question?
My second question to you is non Rory, Scottie and we're gonna say j t or Ludwig. Those are the four probably biggest name winners on the PGA Tour. Which winner on live or the PGA Tour should we be most excited about?
I'm gonna go Victor Howland and.
I should have taken him out too.
Well?
Do you want me to take FedEx Cup champion? The point was like, of of the non household names, who should we be most excited about?
Can I am I allowed to pick Sepstraca?
Yeah, you can take the tank.
Take the tank. Then he was my he was my runner up. Sepstraca has kind of followed that career progression that you're talking about, right, a player who's gotten better and better now in his early thirties. He's won twice this year. AMX is again a softer setup and not the strongest field. The truest was I mean, that was the best players in the world. Obviously you didn't have to live guys there, but that's a bona fide tough
win that Cepstraca took down. So I think obviously that the next step for him would be some major championship success and trying to get in the mix in this little runway of his the prime of his career. Maybe that's going to be the next two years or so. I don't think Sepstraca is going to go down as a Hall of Famer, So if we're following that, he's probably got a two to four year window of really good golf. Then he needs to do something in majors
the next couple of years. But especially as you look at the Ryder Cup, as I'm sure we'll talk about here shortly at that page, and people that could be shining lights for Team Europe. I think what Sepstrac has done is has any golfer in the world this year? Andy elevated his stature within the game as much as Cepstraca has.
I would argue Rory getting into his career career Grand Slam. All right, that's like probably the most you could elevate your career.
Okay, a little different, but okay.
But uh yeah, I think like in like the I think like a couple players have elevated, like Ben Griffin has elevated his career substantially, right.
That feels Does that feel as legit?
No? No, it doesn't in the sense because like Sepstraca is like a bona fide lock on on the Ryder Cup team. It'll be his second Ryder Cup. You know. You just start to think about like I think like underrated career metrics are like numbers of Ryder Cup or President's Cup or teams that you play on, because it like showcases, like yeah, I was one of the twelve
best Europeans for X number of years. When you especially when you get to like ten year ten year gaps like those are there aren't a ton of players and like perfect point Patrick Cantley, Like when you start, you go down his list, like he's going to be on the team this year, assuming he is in the top sixteen of points he's going he's like twelve, he's a lot.
He's going to be on the team. But like you started to look at Patrick Cantlay to tie this back to like he's going to have like an insane amount of international team appearances. Stepstraca, you know, I don't think like and I think like major championship wise, like not every course is for for step right, if you think about him, he's a big guy. He doesn't doesn't mash it though, and by like he's made like a but it's almost like he's optimized his game for the PGA
Tour and not necessarily his game for major championships. And I think that's like actually like a legitimate thing that should be talked about more. Is that if you want to play your best in majors, does that mean you approach PGA Tour setups and the way you model your game? Maybe because like what Steps figured out is like he's dialed back speed. I think he's talked about this and that's like finding fairways more. But like when it gets tougher. Is that a good strategy?
Yeah, I wouldn't. I'd probably push back that if you wanted to optimize for the pj tor, throttle back your speed a little bit like that. There's certain setups where that's true. But I think the the Rory the Xander high speed is going to work everywhere, and especially in majors. So if there was a golfer advice, I want to do like that, Sorry.
He doesn't. He doesn't start with like a high like. I don't think Cepstraca is ever going to like be like a one to eighty five guy, even if he's said.
It without having his numbers up in front of me. I think he's probably living in the one seventy three to like one seventy six range, which isn't super slow, but it's not super fast like one eighty is when you start to get too fast. He's not there. But yeah, I wouldn't if a golfer said, I want to play really well in PGA Tour events, but not I don't
care as much about majors. I don't think throttling back the speed is necessarily a good strategy, but I hear you that that's probably explaining some of the lack of major championship results. But he does have two top tens in majors, they just haven't come in the last couple of years. It was in twenty twenty three. He's been in contention in big events. He won the truest he was in. He almost won that TPC south Wind the
Zalatorus playoffs. So I think Cepstraca is a top twenty player in the world pretty pretty clearly and could be a shining light for Europe in September. But if you're making me take Hovland off the board, I'll say Cepstraca has been the most impressive non top guy.
Win the the Open was he I think he was the only one that really ran outside. I mean, Rom was just too far back, but Sepp was the one that he just made a few to make mistakes. He was really impressive in that Harmon Open. When all right, what's what's your last one.
Who wins the Ryder Cup? And maybe this is a little crossover from the last couple of conversations we've had, but who's a golfer outside of the top couple names on each side? But if you had to bet, he's going to be a top player for one of the sides. Take out the Scottie, take out Ron Rory. Who wins the Ryder Cup? And who's that player?
All right? I think the Europeans are going to win. Okay, I feel like we're due for an away winner. I just like I think like one of the things, like you, when you looked at Beth Page on the on the schedule, you're like, oh my god, that's just US centric because of the distance advantage that the US had a couple of years ago. But if you start to look at the way the teams are shaping shaping up, like the
European team is just bombers. And if you set up Beth Page with little rough, like because of the way Oakebond screens sit up so often, it is such an advantage to be a high long ball hitter. Beth Page, Beth Page, I mean, my bad. Because of the way beth Pages of greens sit up on ridges, it is so advantage. So if you set it up with thick rough, it is playing really into the long hitter's hands. If you set it up with short rough, it still plays
into the long hitters' hands. Right then it becomes just like bomb Fest, And I just think about like the the Euros in some of the players they have like on that team, whether it's like the Hoyguard rastless Hoyguard really lots of speed, Ludwig you know, kills it. Yeah, you just have like a lot of guys. And then when you start to think about like the guys that
aren't long hitters. You have Fleetwood who's been like a Ryder Cup awesome and Ryder Cup you can pair with anybody in the world because he drives it straight and iron play is extraordinary. Right. You have Stepstraka who kind of like he doesn't hit it super far we just talked about, hits a lot of faaraways, and he also hits the ball really high with his irons, like a
good trait in there. And then you start to look at the at the American team and you're you're looking at the back half of the roster who's won this year on tour, and it's like, well, like, I don't know, like there just aren't the same type of players, right, They're like the people that have won as as the Americans this year have been like shorter players like Brian
Harmon wins and and gets into the mix. Right, You've got Andrew Novak, who's you know, I know what your favorites, but not necessarily like a bomber, right he never played a Ryder Cup now, like you know, and Russell Henley's in the sixth spot. Like Russell Henley is a great player, but like a poof yeah and more cow is one of your like you're bona fide players and he's he's
not hitting it very far. So like you've got this dynamic where like you're looking at the roster and a lot can change, but right now it just plays so into the European's hands as far as uh, you know, player that I think will play well that might surprise uh, you know of names like I mean, could Bob McIntyre be a name for the Europeans? Plenty of speed in the and the you know, if you think about like
where he's won his tournaments. He won obviously the Scottish, he's won, the Canadian like that that Canadian Open set up last year that he won at was like thick rough. Uh, Like I think that could like translate well to to Beth Page if I was gonna if I was gonna pick you know one name, which is like an amazing thing because like you kind of thought last Ryder Cup that was gonna be a one and done Ryder Cup appearance for Bob McIntyre, but that would be one for
the Europeans. For the Americans, Daniel Berger.
Not a ton of speed there.
That's where I'm struggling with, like my so my question to you was like, what's what's the best case scenario for the back half of the US Ryder Cup roster, because like, I think this is like a real, a real situation that they have on their hands right now.
Yeah, I think the Team USA, the best thing they have working in their favor is time that you need some of these Europeans to regress a little bit and hope that some combination of Brooks, Koepka, Wyndham Clark, Sam Burns and Tony Finow show a little bit of something over the next couple months. Because, as you are alluding to, and it's one of the biggest stories of this Ryder Cup, Team USA doesn't have a ton of speed and there's not really a way to set up Beth Page where
you mitigate speed too much. Like we're talking, I think it's sometimes relevant to call out the exact speed that we're talking, Like Brian Harmon and Russell Henley are like one sixty eight ball speed. They are really short and they they're great ball strikers and they can play. But there's not a lot of speed on the American side. As you've mentioned. Colin Morricala one of the top guys, like not a, He's like a one seventy four one seventy five ball speed guy. Russell Henley's gonna be on
the team and he will be a fine contributor. But to me, the best possible outcome for Team USA this is being held in September. It'd be nice if it was held next, you know, July. Like they need as much time as possible. Obviously you can't delay the event. I'm not being serious about that, but you need Europe to cool off a little bit. Matt Fitzpatrick is sneaky rounding into form a little bit like Team Europe is
taking shape and struck at all these guys. Hovelin's potentially a little rebound like Tyro Hatton's been a great player. So I'm with you. This feels like a coin flip.
I mean, if you go further down the Europeans. Like someone who's been really impressive on the on the European tour is Rasmus Neerguard. Peterson nukes the ball like insanely long. Like all almost all of the young guys and the European young players are very long, right, they are, like you think about like both the hoy Guards, like the rookies that they can bring in are are just they're just different players than you know, like Nicholas nor Guard is another example very long.
And your point Bobby McIntyre. He's been excellent off of the tea this year and he's got some speed.
So yeah, I mean he's like he he touches like what one eighty If I.
Close to it, yeah, I think he's like nine. Yeah, and that's right in there.
That'd be at the at the top, which is crazy when you consider whistling straight where we're at. And the the big thing here is like unless brooks Kopka plays well and maybe both of the remaining majors, he's not
gonna be on the team. But like this is what you're talking what you're talking about here is like really like a replacement there Dustin Johnson and Brooks Koepka in twenty twenty one were prolific off the T players, like top of the top of the world off the T players, and effectively what's happened is like you're replacing them with players like Russell Henley and Brian Harmon.
How nuts would things have to get for you to consider Dustin Johnson. He's playing horribly right now, will say he's been He's actually been pretty good off of the tea. I think there's almost no world where he ends up on.
The team whatsoever. If he'd have to win, he has to win one of the two majors.
If you finish his top five at Oakmont, are you like at least thinking about him as a fringe pick.
I think he has to finish top five at the last Like to me, like where Brooks this is like the it's not like my bar. My bar would be different than the Keegan Bradley's bar because like they live like Bryson's in.
Yeah, yeah, Bryson is.
Without a doubt in. But that's because he's literally contended in every major except for the Open Championship the last year and a half. Right, He's been in the mix. It's like that's what made it for for Brooks or DJ or anybody else from Live like Patrick Patrick Reed, who's won at beth Page without speed, Which is an important point. But for any of those players to be considered, they have to do insurmountably great things.
I agree, but I mean the tm USA is pretty desperate on the back end. I'm not I would not be considering Dustin Johnson right now. But it's a little leak. It's it's gonna be a I don't mean to be disrespectful, it's gonna be a Ben Griffin somebody of that type of name. I mean, speed may not even make the team.
I mean, Speak's thirty first in points right.
Now, and some of that's those are handout points from signature events, sponsor exemptions that he wouldn't even he'd be lower.
So if we say Harris English, I think is like actually like a great player for that he should be. He's seventh to points. It's like we're in a world where Harris English is like, all right, that is like a guy that might be playing all five.
And he's got some speed too, He's got that one seventy eight. He's a flusher.
He is he is a flusher like Harris English, great player for them, but you know he won Tory, which is like I think, a pretty fair account for Bethpage. Novak is probably in the way he's been playing, not a.
Ton of speed. We need he needs to do something in one of the next less let's.
Just say we cut it at Matt McNeely at nine, who's a top ten player in the world in the FGR But but anyways, we've got then Harmon Spawn can't Lay, Griffin Berger, Feenal Hogy Glover Keegan, Wendy Clark, Billy Horsechell, who's unavailable. That's that gets you. It's twenty and it's like you're looking at that and it's like if I'm if I'm adjusting for course fit so can't lay. We're saying is in that's ten. Oh yeah, then you got
two spots. You get two spots. It's got to be like fenw and Wyndham Clark.
I don't think you can take Wyndam Clark right now. He's been absolutely horrific. I do think I think for now he's he's actually hitting it really well off the tee and is a good fit. He's been bad this year, pretty bad, But I would if my life depends on Team USA winning and that's how you should view it. As if you're the captain of TIMSA, I'd probably feel pretty good about having Tony Few on the team.
I think I think, like there's no way you can go to beth Page without him because of like just the sheer course fit. You need a player like him with your current roster makeup.
And I mean he has a great short game that the potter can be. Yeah, I think Tony Finow in most normal years should not be considered because his form is not anywhere close to what should be on the Team USA Ryder Cup. They should be stacked. But he's a legitimate consideration. I think Oakmont Andy is going to be an extremely important delineation between these Griffins. No Andrew Novak, Tony Fenow, some of those speef. Those guys have to make their case there.
You know, you know who could be the savior for the US team.
I think you're about You're about to throw out an insane name. Michael Block.
He's number thirty four in the points. Cam Young perfect course fit.
It is a good it is a good course fit for cam Yo.
Never say no, just these just these to get hot for a couple of weeks Oakmont.
Well, he's gonna win the right mortgage. So I don't know how much stock you put in the Rocket mortgage, but he is going to win the Rocket mortgage, maybe by five.
So it's Cam dam he's got to beat down. He's gonna he's got to look down the barrel at Cam Davis and take him down.
It'll be Ricky Fowler, Cam Davis and Cam Young split teas on Sunday at Rocket Mortgage. And I think Cam Young could make a good case.
For anybody that hasn't listened to Joseph on this pod for the last couple of years. He has a a uh, I would say, you know, a fascination with with the potential of Cam Cam Davis and Cam uh uh Cam Young.
So less less fascination over the last twelve months with Cam Young and a little bit more self pity. But I'm we might we might be back. We're showing some signs.
All right, We'll leave you that. Joseph, What do you got coming this week for your weekly column? Everybody should be checking it out every Wednesday weekly Colin, you know the social charts. I always get people going more people should read read the column before commenting on the social chart.
That's just you know, a really fun Internet exercise is to read the column and then read the comments on the on the social graph to see who didn't read the article and just like has made ridiculous comment.
I kind of disagree, Andy, because part of what gets the social engagement is quick comments. You start to get the you know, the graphic starts to pick up steam and the algorithm. So I'm fine with people commenting right away and not necessarily reading the article. I hope they eventually read it. But if you want to fire a
quick response to the graphic, I'm fine with that. I think this week I'm doing Team Europe how they're shaping up right now for the Ryder Cup, So appropriate with this conversation listing out the you know who's on the bubble, who are the locks? And then a little memorial talk huge fan of Mirfield Village, so there'll be a little bit in there about that.
Who's your favorite on the bubble name for the Europeans.
I think a provocative one might be somebody like a Lori Canter who will probably not make the team, but you know he's he's actually been like a very good golfer over the last year. I don't think he's been on the team. We could talk he should.
Be the diplomat just because he's he's worked all sides, all sides of the of the of the the world of golf right now. He has an experience on the live, he's got experience on the europe to where he's playing a few PGA Tour events.
Yeah, he's seen.
He's a diplomat. Uh No.
True favorite, I would say is Matt Fitzpatrick, who has I think actually does model pretty well for Beth Page and the win at Brookline. They're not the same type of golf course, but I think Matt Fitzpatrick likes those types of setups honestly great.
I think a pretty good comp uh is Brookline similar Like the way the greens sit up is really like the topography really good match for in the way that you know the greens a way better, way better greens at at Brookline than than Beth Page which are just kind of like flat circles.
Yeah, I think bet Fitzpatrick will be a very to make a prediction, I think he will be a key contributor to Team Europe at Beth Page. So he's probably on the bubble right now. I don't think currently forty one in the point the points, whatever the points.
He's behind Sammy Valmachi, ahead of Francesco Laporta, who sounds more like a Mets like utility player than a golfer.
Fitzi's been hitting it really well off the tea this year actually, and his iron play has turned around a lot in the last his last four starts so or three starts really one of them iss Zouri Classic. I wouldn't count that, but three signature events or and the
PGA Championship. Coming off of T eight at the PGA, think he will likely have a good week at Mirefield Village this week and kind of solidify why he should be on the team, not solidify, but make significant progress towards being on that team.
All right, Joseph, we'll talk soon and look forward to reading your work on the Friday dot Com.
Sounds good.
Thanks Andy, all right, big thanks to PJ.
Clark for editing and producing this podcast. Also big thanks to you guys for listening. Uh, we'll be back next week. We're gonna do a big okemon the golf. We're going to focus in on the golf course, so I'm excited about that. That'll be next week's show. And as we we get we're right right there basically at the US Open again, and uh yeah, thank you and we'll talk soon.