I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a bride Egg, Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg, fridagg, Frida Egg, Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the course. Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg podcast. Today I am joined by Joseph Lamania. He is a regular contributor to The Friday Egg the Fridaygg podcast as well as one of the co hosts of Full Swing Thoughts, are podcast that breaks down every episode of the Netflix
documentary Full Swing. So I had Joseph on obviously, he's uh, he's been on this podcast before. He gets in the nitty gritty on data, offers kind of a fresh perspective on golf. So I wanted to discuss with him what we've seen thus far with the PGA Tour calendar, the elevated events or designated events, and the recent weeks, as well as get into a little bit of a discussion about data and golf courses. And you know, I think we have different viewpoints on what we think are great tests.
And it was interesting to talk about short part fours on the PGA Tour, So before we get into that, I figured i'd throw together a little intro here, and you know, with a couple of designated events under our belt, the season's kind of starting to take form, and one of my favorite aspects of when we go to from the West Coast Swing to the Florida Swing, it's maybe my only favorite aspect of it. I get really sad
when we leave the West Coast. But it is now Masters prep season, and I know the players is in there, but really everybody's got their eyes on Augusta. So I figured i'd do a very early ten Masters favorites. So this is being recorded on the twenty third of February for anybody that listens later. These are my ten favorites heading into the Masters. This is way too early, but starting to think about it, maybe you could get some value on some of these guys if you're looking to
do that type of thing. So at number ten, I've got Jason Day. He's got four starts in twenty twenty three, T eighteen, T seven, fifth, and T nine, and obviously that comes at some of the designated events. He's one of the best Masters players that hasn't won. His career at Augustin National is incredible. So at number nine, we've
got Dustin Johnson, who knows how he's playing. If he's been playing obviously with liv it kind of you've got new benchmarks in terms of how you judge Town and DJ incredible career at Augusta National, obviously won the Fall Masters a couple of years ago. But he's Dustin Johnson. I think at this point he still needs to be on your first page of favorites because he's such a talented player. At number eight, i've got Tony Fenow. He's
played really well at Augusta before. He's elite in every facet of the game of golf except for with the putter, and really, if he just puts well in a given weeks, he's got to be at the top of your list of favorites. So if that putter's hot, I love him. At Augusta obviously, he was in the final group with Tiger back in twenty nineteen, so a place that he's had success. He also almost won it on a broken ankle. So my next guy is Justin Thomas at number seven.
He's not really playing great. I think, you know, we see JT kind of ebb and flow in form. I think if we were looking at one of our one of the critiques of Justin Thomas as a player is the consistency's not there. But that being said, when he's hot, a few players can get as hot as him. He had his best finish ever at last year's Masters. If you kind of look at his chart, it's always been
confounding why he hasn't played well at Augusta National. He played pretty well last year, and I think if he can figure out like the thirteenth T shot, that is a big thing that's really plagued him the way he's played thirteen, if he just cleans that up, all of a sudden, you're looking at a guy that'll be really in the mix. So number six Will Zlataurus and I talk with Joseph a little bit about Will in this podcast.
But you know, after listening to the Laing Ups podcast, I was a little worried with the back injury, just because he talked about changing his golf swing, and he's been such an elite ball striker in his young career that that's scary. It was awesome to see him play so well at Riviera. I think it put to bed a lot of doubts that maybe he, you know, wouldn't
be the same type of player. I saw that he was talking about going full speed in ap so this is you know, he played great at Riviera without going really ramping up and going at the ball the way we've been accustomed to see with his you know, just he's sensational from t de Green. He's played great at Augusta National. Obviously, it's a huge iron test, and there are a few in the world that are better iron players than will Zalatrus one of those players that might
be I think it's a good argument. I don't know. I'm not ready to declare one of them better than the other. Is my number five pick, Colin Morikawa. He finished fifth last year at the Masters. In his first Masters he finished forty fourth, the second Master's eighteenth. Last year fifth. That tells me somebody's kind of figuring out the golf course. He's plenty. He's not long, obviously, but
he's long enough for Augusta. And you know, that iron play, like what we just talked about with will Zala torres Is, is such a weapon at Augusta National. And he's been playing really, really well. He has gotten the notoriety of a Ram or a Rory or a Scheffler, but he's doing everything this year except for winning. So number four we've got cam Smith. Honestly, it feels low for cam at four again he kind of falls in the DJ bucket.
What do you make of live? And you know, is he going to be really competitive coming into the Masters? I think all that aside, it's hard to put him anywhere but here he has nearly won two Masters, he is the reigning Open champion, and he arguably put together the best twenty twenty three of any player. This is
just a course that fits his game so well. Obviously we've seen some Australians play really well, but there's enough width for his you know driver that can get a little squirrely, and then around the greens he's just a magician. So you know with cam Smith, the thing with the putting and around the greens, it's just so hard for him to surrender strokes, So I still have them at number four. Number three is Scotty Scheffler, and this is again you know, this is a testament to the top two.
But Scotty won at Scott Steale. He's obviously the reigning Masters champion. He's great at every facet of the game of golf, and there aren't many guys that can say that they're excellent at every facet, but Scotty Scheffler is one of them. So at three, you know, it's kind of crazy that he's the third pick, but you know
that's because at number two is Rory McElroy. And I think if you look back to last year's Masters, really, if you look at his OWGR page, the consistency is unbelievable and for Rory, like he can play bad at these majorss, he can have disappointing majors and it's like a fifth or an eighth place finish. And I don't know many players on this list. I don't know if there are any that are in that same vein like where it feels like a top ten is a disappointment.
I mean, we saw John Rahm have a really bad year in Major's life year and really wasn't competitive in most of them. So, like, you know, that's a testament to Rory. His floor is obviously way higher than everybody else's and you know, last year at the Masters he seemed pretty happy. It was like seemed like the first time he walked away from the Masters happy. Maybe he goes and wins this year. I'm falling into the Rory trap.
But it definitely feels like he's in a little bit different headspace than a lot of years going into the Masters. Number one, John ram I'm not sure how you could put anybody else here at this point. You know, he's got three PGA Tour wins and the year is just through the West Coast. It's I think I saw that he's the fastest three wins since Johnny Miller on the PGA Tour. Obviously, the it's not insignificant the places that
he's won. Also, Kapalua is actually a great comp for Augusta National because of the severity of the slight side slopes that you face and pretty severe greens that you hit in. So Kapalua is a great comp for Augusta National. It's a place that he's played really well the last two years. And then winning at Riviera, which is a really an iron test. You have to be on with your iron play at Riviera to win, and that's the
same thing can be said about Augusta National. He's just performing at such a high level through the bag that it's hard to imagine him not being a contender at Augusta National, and I think he has to be the favorite right now. So that's my top ten leaning into the Masters. We'll probably do another one of these as we get closer, maybe after the Players, but that's what I've got as my top ten here about a little
over a month out from the Masters. So without further ado, let's get to our conversation with Joseph Lamannia and thank you for listening. All right, Joseph, welcome back. Excited to talk. It's obviously been a world wind of a West Coast Swing. I think for the most part for the PGA Tour, it's been very positive. As Live kicks off this week down in Mayacoba, there's a lot of things to talk about there, but I wanted to get your thoughts and big takeaways from the West Coast Swing.
I think it's been awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm super excited to do this. I thought the West Coast Swing was awesome. It delivers every single year, but I think this year in particular, it delivered with all the best players being at a couple of those events, Kapalua Waste Management Genesis. It's awesome to see those guys go head to head and it's not a coincidence that
we got some good duels down the stretch. When you get all the best players in the world on the same golf course, so a lot to be excited about. As somebody who follows the tour.
I guess, like one thing I had a question about, why is it that these events, and this is something that I've been kind of thinking about a little bit, is like, why do these events feel different than wg's. Is it just because they're new and have a different name, or is there a tangible reason why these events so far feel more competitive more interesting than the WGCs did as of even last year.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I have a great answer to that. The two things that come to mind. I think there is something to having a cut. I do think it's additive to the tournament. And whether or not elevated events in the future have cuts, I guess remains to be seen, but I think it does add something, and it adds a little bit of character starting on the first day versus the first day of
a WGC feels really flat. The other thing that I guess I would mention is I just think there's something to the flow of a season, and like in the NFL, when you start to get snow games in like November and December, there's just like kind of a vibe to each sports schedule, and I think the PGA Tour just starts off with a lot of energy in January through let's say April. I don't know if the elevated events late July would pop the same way that these have,
But I don't know. Just a couple of thoughts that come to mind, but I agree these these have been popping.
Yeah, I think this is just a very advantageous time for the PGA Tour. And I don't want to dismiss how I advantageous it is to be on the West Coast. Just telecast times are better. I was looking, you know, and I'm a recent movie out to the West Coast, but I was looking at at times for this week's Honda. It's just crazy. It's like, oh, the first tea times
at three point fifty in the morning. For me, Like, you know, I'm pretty into PGA Tour golf and it's like for me to fire up, like the golf's over by, you know, roughly like two o'clock. It's hard for somebody
working to watch that. Or when you look at the weekends, you know who your demo is, it's you know, kind of middle aged people, and it's like your demo has activities like mornings are when school activities are not school activities like sports activities are, and so weekend mornings are hard. And when you get to this, you know, off the west one of the things West Coast does and like, you know, I think I'm all for it visiting different
parts of the country, and I think it should. But like if the PGA Tour somehow figured out a way to play the majority of events on the West Coast, I think that they would get drastically better TV ratings.
I think that could be true. Also, like maybe people need an off week and maybe you have to lean into that a little bit of like, all right, if somebody just spent a lot of time watching Genesis on their weekend, and then I also spent a lot of time watching the Phoenix Open, maybe some of the Honda classics, like a catch up week in your life and you're doing other things other than watching golf, like for most ordinary people, and maybe they tour needs to lean into
that a little bit, and the Honta Classics just not going to put up that kind of viewership numbers. Like having expecting fans to watch all of these events back to back to back weekends is a pretty big ask.
Oddly, this week, I'm actually like more excited about the Honda than I have in weeks in years prior. And I think it's because now it has actually like an identity and it's not I know, they haven't come out and said this, and they haven't done it with FedEx cup points. You know, it's still worth the same amount
as last week, which is absolutely insane. But for some reason, I do I am more excited about this week because I know it's not a big event and I'm like, oh, this is a smaller event, like maybe we'll see some new names, and that actually excites me as a fan that tunes in every single week.
I agree one idea that I'm passionate about that I think we talked about briefly on one of these Frida egg pods, I don't know, five months ago. I do think we should have two separate points lists. One of them is the playoff points list, so that can be your FedEx Cut points. Those are only given out at the designated events. And then you could have qualification points,
which Pomcast points. Sure it's the international currency that translates into corn Fairy Tour points translates into Latino America points like that. Great, everything's in one and so then I think it'd be really cool if the Honda Classic you have guys playing for money but also for those points while you're not diminishing or diluting the FedEx Cup playoff points, and then it would really have an identity. I think that would flow pretty well with what you're describing. Well.
What it would do also is it would have like significance throughout this event, not just the winner, right, because then it would be guys playing their way through points into the elevated event. It's like the most important thing about elevated event going forward. I feel very strongly about this is it can't be just off of like the last year's performance. There has to be ways for guys to play their way in in the season, otherwise it's a monumental fail.
I agree with you. I think the qualification points is a way you could do that. Also, having fewer golfers who are fully exempt for the next year is going to take a step in that direction, right because it was one hundred and twenty five before that got full exempt, that they had their full status into the next year. Now it's going to be seventy, So it does open up some spots. One random idea, be interested in your
take on. I do think whether it's FedEx cut points or like the separate list, I think fans need to start to understand the point system a little better and maybe like having.
A drop of the office the shroop bucks, what's a shroop buck worth?
Sure? But I think maybe having a drop off between like okay, tenth place and eleventh place is a steeper drop off than just kind of the linear progression that's built into the point, so fans can start to understand, oh wow, like finishing in the top ten is a big is a bigger deal, like this shot is worth a lot, Like just building in a little more context somewhere,
like whether it's top ten, top fifteen. I kind of think that might be additive on a Sunday when you have a player who's tied for twenty fifth trying to push for like a top ten spot.
What if here's just like off of that idea, just a thought. What if it was like your point points are distributed by how close to the lead you are, and if you run away with a tournament and win by five, you get more points, and then all of a sudden, down the stretch you have say it's a snoozer, like somebody's up by four or five and they're pushing to get up by more so that they get more points.
So the points are distributed based off of the proximity to the lead, because like a tenth place where you're eight shots back is way different than a tenth place when you're two shots back and have a real shot to win.
I need to think about it more. I do think when a player is winning, the only thing he should be focused on is winning. I do think that's true. But I like the idea of building in additional layers of context, like what what is this person who's in second, who's three clear of the guy in third and three behind the leader? What's he playing for?
Like? Yeah, exactly, that's what kind of right. It's like, there's there's way different places, right if you lose, say, say Rory and rom are duking it out and they're like both seven clear of third place, and we have like an open between Stenson and Phil going on where
nobody else on the golf course matters. I feel like those two guys should get more points than they would normally get for like compared to a tournament that's completely up for grabs, and a good balance on the eighteenth hole is what ends up leading to somebody winning.
There's I think there's a balance to be struck though, because I don't want to over engineer this thing, and fans need to have their minds wrapped around what somebody's playing for and what it means. So I wouldn't want to make it like, Okay, well you don't really know how many points he gets until we run some math after the like, you know, an hour after the tournament, Like it's got to be pretty clear to figure out that. Uh yeah, maybe something I'll play around with in my
head a little bit. Try to think about what do you just while you're saying that, what do you think about being able to like pay one hundred and fifty FedEx cut points for a Mulligan in an event you can cash in some of your points.
I think that's an appbsolutely absurd.
I'm kidding, I'm kidding, but it is just funny to think about in terms of like, uh, all right, and if if they had like real FedEx cup point currency that they handed in, you know, like they call the rules official over hand at the currency end, I would be in on that whole process.
They should maybe do it with t I O relief since that's because.
I was gonna say, you might might be what Shaffley did in Phoenix.
Yeah, built up some goodwill in the on the Tour of Gentlemen and and gotta got a friendly drop. Any other take takeaways from the West Coast Swing, uh, players are or course specific?
Yeah, a lot of takeaways. Phoenix is awesome. I think I already had a high opinion of that golf course,
but it definitely went up. And that's one question that I kind of had for you in my notes Andy, as as I was preparing for this pod, like when we start to talking about elevating certain events and then rotating some of those venues, and some events being elevated one year and not another year, I don't know if you can de elevate the Phoenix Open and like what they have built there, it's a tough question, right, Like, if that's not an elevated event and if they don't
get a super strong field one year, I don't know that you're really rewarding one of the tour stops that's done something really special with what they've built. So I love the Phoenix Open. I think that's a tough question to handle. If you're the tour and how you build this new schedule, what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I mean I think venues matter a lot, and I if I weren't gonna say one of the things that is different about these designated events than the wgc's you know why they felt different was you were playing at Kapalua. You were playing waste management with all the fans on Super Bowl week, Like that was fricking awesome on a lot of levels, Like is like this is
the sixteenth hole like my favorite thing in the world. No, but it's really cool and it's a one of one experience in golf, and that's the type of things that you want these tournaments to like, that's what they should all be trying to become their own version, like their own authentic self, which is what the Phoenix Open is not. I'm not saying they should all try and be the Phoenix Open. They should all be what they can be,
do better than anybody else in the Phoenix Opens. Doing that there they throw a party better than anybody else on tour, and that's why it's thrived, all right. So with that in mind, like you go from Phoenix Open then to Riviera the best golf course, like you just like, I mean, those are three really great unique venues. So when we talk about elevating things like, is elevating the three m really gonna do that much? Or is that that's when I think you run into are you actually
just is this just the WGC? Because the WGC kind of was like a great It was like whipped cream on shit, right, all right, this is a really shitty venue. Like the match play was great the last few years at Austin and I'm really sad that's going. But like the other ones, the one at Memphis awful. You know, Firestone was so tired by the end of that thing.
Mexico was not. I mean it actually kind of was an interesting golf course because of how short it was, you know, but it again where it all fell short, like the TP that the course they went to in China was like a disaster, you know. So you start to look at it, and the venues were the issue. They never prioritize venues. They don't prioritize venues for the
most part, but venues are really really important. Like I was, I did an intro to the last podcast where I talked about how you could do venues and such, and I was thinking about certain past tournaments and like one of some of the most memorable tournaments on the PGA Tour in recent years were the Olympia Fields event with no fans when Rom and DJ duked it out. That was an incredible tournament. Is at a former US Open course. I remember the Bethpage tournament that Patrick Reed won was
a really good finish. The Ridgewood tournament that Bryson one that was soaked was really good tournament. Like, it's very rare when you go to a great venue that you get a bad tournament.
I agree. Look, venue is a huge part of why something's exciting. I think Phoenix Couples a good golf course with some serious character, and that's the big question I have, like, if you were to de elevate it for a year and take some of the wind out of the sales of an event that's been building and building and building towards something special, what does that do for the Phoenix Open over the long run? Like, I don't know if you can tell them you're only going to get a
great field every three years. So I hear you on the venues, It's just there's a lot to balance, and I don't envy all the puzzle pieces that they have to put together.
I think you could make a case for Phoenix is strong enough on its own. You have enough tour players as long as you don't do what they did to the Honda this week, where you have, like you know, four elevated sandwich between four elevated events. I think you could make the case that that will still draw a very good field, and that event might not need a top tier field to be great.
Yeah, I guess money is what you're incentivizing them with, right, Like what we'll see what these purses look like. But if I'm John Rahm, why do I go play Phoenix?
They have to play three non elevated event right, right? So and I live in Phoenix. This is an easy one for me to do. Like, you know, a perfect example when we're doing our event schedule for the fried Egg where I live, and if it's an event, if I could sleep in my own bed, it's like a no brainer to host an event, right.
I hear you. I have a little I have a little bit of an aversion to like a stipulation that you have to play three non elevate events. It just might be necessary, and like that's what that's the hard part of what they're doing with trying to build out this schedule and get people to show up for the non elevated events. It's a difficult challenge.
What do you think the ideal? So we have the four majors we have and then the rest are going to be tour events. Honestly, these some of these elevated events, like I think Riviera, now that the cash is up near the players, that's just a flat out better event than the players. And I know that the tour will hate to hear that, but it is. It's a better tournament than the players. It has more history, it has is to at a better golf course, and it's in a better place it's a better place to go watch
golf just in general. Though, like by I'm wondering what is the exact what's the right number of events for a top player making a schedule. I think it's like fifteen, so fifteen non non majors.
No, including majors. I think fifteen sixteen events is a reasonable schedule for a top player, pretty much in line with like an NFL schedule. Also, I think it's one of the ways I'm thinking about this, not just from a player's perspective, but how many weekends a year do we think we can demand a fan's attention, And I think sixteen is kind of pushing the upper bounds there. I think fifteen sixteen is a reasonable number. What's your answer?
I wasn't sure. I was curious what your take is. It feels where they're at right now, feels about right. I think the tricky thing is gonna be how you fit it all into eight months. That's hard. It's gonna be really hard with their you know, with the goal of being January to August is really it seems like
that's their steadfast. It's just hard to me because it limits, you know, I think a lot of people want this to have some international flavor to it, and if you are sticking with January to August, I think it's gonna be super hard to have more than like one international elevated event.
I do, this is probably never gonna happen. I think one thing that would help them out a lot is to get rid of the first two playoff events. Honestly, I'm not kidding.
I think gag rid of the playoffs would be the best thing they could do.
Just have a Tour Championship, eight guys match play, that's the finale, and all these other elevated events are how you earn points into that. That would be so sweet, Like top eight from Riviera, Waste Management, Kapalua. Just just those twelve events the majors like the players, and that just the top eight guys played the Tour Championship. That'd be sweet. What purpose are the playoffs serving other than I'm sure generating a ton of revenue, which I should not be dismissive of.
Yeah, I think there's obviously the business reason. But if you were starting from a clean slate, and I think that you know when you're talking about this right now, and I think Live is like right now it's down, right, but it was down this time last year. And I think that it's easy to look at what they're doing now, lack of momentum, lack of big players that went there, and say it's dead. But I think that's a little
bit foolish. And if you fall for if you're the tour in fall for that trap a second time, you know, it's the famous shame on you. It's nothing's ideal, but it's important with this type of thing, is like, hey, this is ideal if we had a clean slate, exactly how we would do it? How close can we get here? Because it seems like their partners are pretty open to this.
And if you're fed acts, if we make this bigger and we make this better and we make this more interesting, that is good for you in the long run, right, And that has to be the messaging.
Totally agree, And I think you have to start from the finish line and work your way backwards, Like what's the coolest possible final. I think it's match play, and I think it's a limited number of players, and how do you get there in the most exciting way? So that's my thought is you get rid of the playoffs.
Always the bird. The match play doesn't work, always falls on when there's two players on the golf course. It doesn't work if you have eight, eight players every day playoff every single spot one through eight have big cash. Like if if JT Is playing Scottie Scheffler in the sixth match, in the sixth place match for three million dollarsference in earnings, guess what, that's going to be pretty freaking interesting to watch. None of these guys want to lose at that point.
And we don't have a good way right now to look back on a year twenty fourteen, what happened on the PGA Tour? Who are the ten best players? Like you can use the FedEx Cup standings at the end of the year, but we know how systems kind of message, Well, it's the warship and now it's even worse.
You have no clue. You have no clue when you look at it now.
Exactly there's no time capsule, and this would serve as that time capsule. It's just eight guys and they're battling out every single spot. So yep, I like that.
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Do we want to move on to some player takeaways from the Yes player Takeaways? I have like notes on probably five or six players, but only a couple that I felt had to hit on first. I think you have to lead with John Rahm playing some dominant sorry.
The obvious one.
Yeah, but I mean it's it's worth, it's worth hammering this point home. And I'm was really blown away at Genesis. Him not being good off the tee and winning that event by a couple of shots is really scary for players not named John Rahm on the PGA Tour. He's one of the best drivers in the world. He had an off driving week and he's still won one of the strongest fields in golf by multiple shots at a demanding course. His iron play and his putting was amazing. Like,
good luck. If you plan on beating John Ram this year.
Do you consider him head and shoulders above everybody else right now?
I think it's pretty disrespectful to say head and shoulders above everybody else. I think it's still golf course dependent, but he is my favorite at the Masters as of this moment. I think Rory and Scheffler are right there. Like at Okill, I think Rory has as good of a chance as anybody. So I think a lot of venues would be like Rory and Rom coin flip, but certain venues I'd give the edge to Rom.
What about you, Yeah, I think I'm a hard I have a hard time. I think like just think he threw golf in the way it works is like we haven't you know everybody like we see guys play like this and the reality of since two thousand and eight, the reality is is that it's very hard for anybody
to sustain this for more than a couple months. And the thing I fear is that John Rom played his best golf from November and we look back and we're like John Ram from November of twenty twenty two till March of twenty three played the best golf of his career, you know, and it's a time capsule. Like we saw this with Hideki Matsuyama where he ripped off what four wins and six events, but it was in November, you know, And this is part of the thing with the schedule, right.
So with John Rahm, like I he's one of the most consistent players in the world, right and he has been like one of the most consistent players we've ever seen since Tiger. But like my question is is this, does this putter, Does the putter that was really cold last year stay hot? Do we see that because like if all of sudden he becomes an average putter, you know, like he was last year, does this all work at such a high level. And I think the same thing's
going on with like Rory. Rory was hot, and you know, I watched him play thirty six holes of golf last week and I was just after thirty six holes, I'm like, this guy did nothing on the greens, like made nothing, It had no spectacular breaks, and he's a couple shots off the league, you know. And to me, my kind of like is like those Scottie, Rory and rom I have in a different bucket because they've done things over the last eighteen months that like, and I think camp
Smith probably deserves to be in that bucket too. And you look at those three guy or four guys and like they've done extraordinary feats over the last really year that other players haven't even sniffed that level, because I think there's those four guys and a really big drop off to the next group of guys.
Well, I agree with most of that. I think a couple other golfers that I've at least one golfer I wanted to talk about, is Colin Morikawah coming around on him?
Now?
I heard, I watched him, I walked with him at Tory Pines. Unbelievable what I saw that day in the West Coast Wing. He finished t six at riv missed the cut in Phoenix, finished third at Farmers where he had a chance to win, and then the second place at the Tournament of Champions that he kind of blew that lead, he had a chance to win three big
golf tournaments. Colin Morikawa is so every time I see him hit a bad shot, it feels like it shouldn't have happened, Like it just looks so natural, like he's gonna hit a good shot on every swing. And when he's getting it together like this, I would I'm really high on what his chances are of winning some big golf tournaments in twenty twenty three. So I don't think the drop off between like a cam Smith in a Morikawa is that huge. And that's coming from somebody who views cam Smith very highly.
M hm.
Right. Also, I throw Fenw in there too. I think for now is he's right, He's right there.
That's interesting. I don't know. I was actually pretty impressed with zeal Taurus at Riviera. That was to me something I needed to see, just with hearing on the Nolaying Up podcast, Like what he's gone through to alleviate the back problems is like a swing change, and it's like the scary when you consider how good of a ball striker he was and seeing him play really at an elite level last week was was you know, I think like when you talk about majors, Like he's somebody that's
kind of right there. So you know another guy that obviously I'm Jason Days only thirty five, he's put together some of the best golf we've seen out of anybody. And it wasn't that long ago. I mean we're talking twenty fifteen when he was playing at the best, you know, highest level of.
Anybody in the game.
Just a decade ago, eight years. I mean, I was just like I think, like when you talk about Augusta, he's sneakily getting into that like back end conversation of like this guy, this is a guy that could sneak in there and win because he's had unbelievable form. The golf course fits his game because of how good he
is around the greens. Like the thing about Augusta to me is always like the guys that play great at Augusta regularly year and year out, they're either a super elite drivers or be super elite around the greens and know that if they are out of position, they can hit it over to a certain spot and get up
and down the vast majority of the time. And he fits more into that bucket and he's got enough pop and enough talent that I think, like you know, to me him and Justin Rose, like those are sneaky back end of your card, potential dark horse masters guys.
I think we should mention really hardcore iron tests Augusta. So like that. Jason Day started to hit his irons much better this past fall. He's been playing really well. Would He's also snuck inside the top fifty in the official World Golf rankings, and now I believe yeah, I don't know about Sports Illustrated, but ficial World Golf rankings top fifty, and so he.
Will about that.
I view him much more positively than Rose personally, just based on what we've seen over the last four months. But yeah, those are guys to pay attention to. Other name we didn't talk about that. I think Warren so mention is Max Homa, who put together that's yeah, a great West Coast swing, second place at RIV one Farmers. It kind of snuck up on me that he finished tied for thirdieth century at Capelua, Like really good West
Coast swing. He's won how many times in the last year, three Fortinette and Wells Fargo, Like Maxim was a real player, and anybody who dwells on the fact that he's like big on social media or like a social media golfer. He's not like he's he's now an elite golfer on the PGA Tour. He's shown you how many times I'm amazed.
I mean, he's like a perfect example of like career progression, and he's a little bit of a throwback to what we are normally see when guys it takes time for guys to get comfortable in the in the professional setting, Like this is a player of the nineties where he gets better and better every year, and now he's having career years.
I think he's in his early thirties, you know, and versus like, you know, what has become the norm is that he's just like phenoms that come out in their standouts from day one, You're Colin Morrikalis, and he's kind of the opposite of that.
Yeah, look Maxoma at Farmers at toy he hit a couple of shots that just not many people have, I mean straight up like birdying eleven and sixteen, those part threes on Saturday, I guess. But his final round, there just aren't that many players who can step up and hit that shot when they're in contention. So was really impressed with Maxhoma.
I wanted to talk about riv I know that you're not a universal praise of riv guy, You've got your questions. What is it about Riviera that falls a little short?
I'm not gonna so I think it's important to say I think Rivier is one of the best courses on tour. Like, if it's not the best non major, it's right there, and it probably is the best non major. So I will preface my thoughts with that. I do think some of the criticism we like to throw around on other courses about being target golf like aren't always some of
those those same arguments can be applied to Riviera. The other thing is that I don't think it always punishes you off the tee as much as I would like to see John Rahm with some really errant drives, like I'm thirteen and you're just not dead at Riviera in a way that I kind of like, I just when you hit a shot way offline, I want to see there, I want to see a serious penalty associated with that.
So I think personally, I think holds one, four and fifteen are not compelling golf holes, and that if there are a couple of golf holes that I feel really negatively about. It's hard for me to give like the most glowing review, even though I do like the golf course.
Would you feel differently about one if it was a part four? No?
No, I don't ever view I think one whole one. I understand it's like a historic T shot, which I think is really cool. The T SHOT's cool. But if you want to, if you want to make criticisms about certain golf courses being target golf, household one like not household one, not target golf, I mean you want hit it high and straight like isn't that some of the criticism we give a lot of golf courses, like what's going on on Hoole one that I'm missing?
I think the green's pretty cool, it's cool. It could be cooler with a with a restoration too. It had I think a little bit more going on than is there right now. If you expand it.
It's really hard. It's really hard to stop your approach shot on that green, and I think that sort of turns into like, all right, high, how high can I hit it? And get to stop as quickly as possible, which is fine, but that's the same criticism we give a lot of other golf courses.
I think that crossing hazard does like one of the things that it does do is it negates the distance advantage a little bit on a specific hole. The rest of the golf course, you know, there's a few places that it And this is what Sagres does too, right in negating distance. Is it as crossing hazards that prevent long hitter. And that's where you see I think a little bit more variety of playing styles at Riviera. So you got like five, you have one where these crossing hazards,
you have eleven. If it's downwind, these guys can't hit driver on there. And then you know the drivable four at not driveable short four which we'll talk about ten is reachable for everybody now. So I think one of the things that the golf course in the way it presents itself, I think it's super democratic in the sense of like any type of player shows up at Riviera
and does feel like they have a good chance. You know, if you're a little say, your driver's not your thing, right, I mean, Luke Donald has played well at Riviera in his career, you know, and he's pretty short and not straight, you know, And one of the reasons he could play well there was it allows him to beat people with his iron play and recovery play. Right. So to me, I am a big fan of places that allow players' skills to shine more so than punishing players in you know, inaccuracies.
I don't disagree with you, and I'm not saying like, oh, just grow up the rough and then I'd be happy. That's not how I That's not how I feel about it. I just think when you blow a drive like way offline, I like to see it have a significant difference, even if it's still feasible to make par. I think it should be a lot harder to make par than if you hit a drive dead online. And thirteen is a really good example where rom like blew that thing so far left and if you're in the fair way the.
Tree.
Yeah, he was fine. He was fine over where his ball ended up. It's not gone where you want to be. I mean, I don't know that was.
I feel like you're discounting how good of a shot he hit out.
Of there was Obviously it's a good shot. It's just like there are a lot of courses where you if you hit the ball that far off line, like you're you're not making you're not making par.
Like I guess your thing is like Augusta, right, I know you love Augusta. And the premise behind what you're saying at Augusta is you have plenty of space to play, you know, the you have forty to fifty yards of space. But when you're off that, that's when it gets very very hard to make par right exactly.
And it's possible if you hit a clever recovery shot and then you're probably chipping, but it is it's hard. And I'm not just like shooting from the hip here. I mean when I look at when I look at the data, like why misses at Riviera just aren't penalized that heavily.
So I think an interesting topic here offshoot of this, like an interesting discussion of this, is that when you're designing golf courses for a tour pro, I think that that makes a lot of sense because you can design where there's you know, but when you're designing for everybody, that's where it gets really hard because most people can't
keep it on the planet. Right. So I think, like the interesting thing is what makes a great golf course for everybody might not necessarily make a great golf course for testing tour professionals' ability to drive golf ball unless you know, and I hate I want to talk about the tenth. I hate living in absolutes. I hate it. I think that's like where golf architecture goes wrong. But
I do understand what you're saying. But like you know, like the idea of the further you miss offline, the more trouble you get in is really hard for the eighteen handed gap.
I don't I don't disagree with you, And I think that's maybe an unfortunate realization I've had over the past couple of years, is that like bifurcation in golf courses almost does make some life of sense. And I think Scottsdale, honestly, Andy is probably a good example. Like people love whole seventeen. I'm not as high on whole seventeen as a lot of people are, but people love whole seventeen. I mean, is that a great hole for a six handicap?
I don't know. I think it. I think it's a fine hole. Let's talk about that. So Kevin Van Valkenberg from nolaying Up wrote a piece about the tenth Hole, and it was titled does the Tenth Hole Riviera Stink? Now I read this piece, we got a lot of quotes from players ranging from Rory to Tiger to Harris. English was in it. And I don't necessarily agree with the premise of Kevin's article, but I will say that Kevin's article made me think. It made me feel something.
It made me like, you know, and that is the mark of a good article, is when it makes you think, it makes you feel something. With the tenth Hole. Really the criticism I think, like I have criticism of the tenth Hole? Do I think it stinks? And that became kind of some discourse this weekend. I don't. I think that it is. It is a few tiny tweaks away
from being very very good. But I think the notion that I picked up on in the piece, and you can chime in here, is that the reason that the fifth the tenth hole might stink is that it's not fair. And the idea of fair is that the green is very very difficult to drive, and thus takes away the chance for an easy or for an attainable eagle we see a couple eagles a year at the tenth. But you know, I think where I struggle here is the premise. I think we're confusing things between short part four and
drivable part four. The seventeenth at Scott's Sale, which everybody likes, I like it is a drivable part four. The tenth at Riviera should more be labeled a short part four. And one of the virtues of a well done short part four, I think, is that the interest comes in where you're placing your shot, and we see where guys want to place the shot, albeit it's very small places right now, and tenthl is drastically different based off of
pin changes. Right like, some days being just short is the best spot to be, some days being long is a great spot to be. And if you did a little bit of work on the green, that just softened the severity of the front. I think that laying up would sometimes be a fashionable choice.
I think that holds kind of far from where laying up is going to be a fashionable choice. I like whole ten a lot. I also, I would echo that I liked the KVV wrote that article because it made me think I disagree pretty strongly with it, I think where if I were to go down the unfair route. Golfer's dispersion patterns with driver are pretty wide. Right, they're hitting the ball three hundred yards, much wider than their
dispersion patterns would have been one hundred years ago. When your target gets really small in a tenet riviera, it is small, right, you're going long left. Every player is doing that, almost every player. Once you start to introduce the bushes a little bit, I think that's where the unfair word starts to come out, and people are saying, well, if a lot of these shots are going to end up going in the bushes that are left of the green, you're leaving a lot to chance, like just who gets
good lives? Who's not blocked by a bush? Like who?
And those bushes weren't there originally, So this is a really important point. Those bushes weren't there originally, and the club has decided to leave them there.
And that's where I can kind of get behind, like the more you leave to, the more upscoring you leave to, what kind of lie you get? That's more where chance and unfairness could come in. But I love the idea of a part four that nobody's hitting the green, and it's all about positioning yourself because in the modern game, part four, positioning is almost non existent. It is, it is basically non existent because you're you have so much spin on your second shot that your ball is just
not rolling out that much. These guys are not thinking that much about which sides of the fairway they want to favor. They're trying to take hazards out and maximize their chance of hitting the fairway. That's almost true of every hole, and so to have a short four where you actually got to think a little bit about like, all right, if I miss this right, I'm dead, and I want to give myself some green to work with. When I hit this thirty yard chip, that's cool and
we just don't see it. So I'm out on a lot of the sharp criticism of that hole because it introduces fireworks without even using a single water hazard. It's it's a cool hole.
It has huge variability in scoring and out, which I think is is what you should be, you know, with the tour and the analytics that it provides. Like in some holes are great holes that don't have a ton of variability, but I think this is one of my big criticisms on the narrowing of Augusta National over the years was what they've been doing has been taking out outcome possible outcomes by removing players' abilities to do things right. And one of the things that the tenth at Riviera
has is a wide range of outcomes. You can make three. You could it's out of the box. You could chip it. Like. The other thing that I like, I struggle with is like talking about like, oh, it's unfair. It's like if you're chipping, Like for the most part, these guys are chipping. They have such a higher chance of chipping in than hooping a seventy yard wedge.
You know, right, Look I don't I don't disagree with you.
But but anyways, like the idea, the other thing about the tenth at Review that I think is beautiful is that nobody, nobody is saying that it is a long part three. And I think that you could look at the seventeenth of Scottsdale and you could say that's more of a long par three than it is a short part four. The tenth at Riviera is a short part four. If you walk away from that hole with a four, you don't feel bad. If you walk away from TPC
Scottsdale with a four, you feel bad. But from you know a ten at Riviera two to seven is in the cards and it could be just like a minuscule difference between walking away with an easy par and walking away with a six or seven.
Agree. Huge point. I would add, if you think variance in scoring outcomes is important, take water, like you need to factor in water as well, because I could design a hole with a ton of variants. That's not a good hole because I just put water everywhere, and there's there's fours, there's eight, there's tens. Riviera does it without any use of a real penalty coming into play. And if somebody wants to say, well, like there's not that
much variance in scoring outcomes. John Rahm made a difficult putt for bogie in his final round that was almost a double bogie, and like every player who plays that hole knows if they leave themselves in the wrong spot, they're gonna make a big number. The reason the variance isn't that high always is because nope, it's players are scared to take on some of the shots that result in a lot of variants. So that's cool.
It's super cool when you see a guy around the green like ten yards from the hole chipping to thirty five feet in my opinion, because you're seeing and you see other guys go for it. You see real risk aversion, and you see other guys that go for it and are attempting to you know, like in a way, like everybody asks for this off the tee, but then when we get around the greens and people have to like
lay up, then nobody wants it, you know. Like I think that we should be looking at people that hit and be like, oh, he just laid up there, you know. And that's the thing that people aren't talking about, is like, oh, like that guy's too chicken to try and hit that chip, because there are other guys in the field that do try and hit the chip, and then those are usually the guys that either walk away with an unbelievable three or a six or a five or a seven. You know,
maybe it I think one guy. I saw one guy made a seven without going into a bunker.
Look, if you ask people who watch golf, what are the shots from Riviera over the last five years that you remember, a lot of them are gonna come on whole ten, like Max Homa in the playoff against the Tree was a great shot. Max Holma's bunker shot and route to winning. If people remember that it was crazy, crazy shot, Like I remember Harold Varner topping his t shot when he was near the lead off of number ten, probably nervous.
So we didn't We didn't get to see that one though.
We just got that is true. That is true. But honestly, whole ten it resonates with people, and I think the reason is their attention heightens when they're watching somebody play whole ten because they know they know that the risk is there. And I also we haven't hit on this, but I think it comes at a cool place in the round two where you have your game, you've already played nine holes, you're warmed up, You're gonna get a tough challenge, and if you get frustrated by it, you
have eight holes to recover. Like John Rahm got punched in the mouth, All right, John, Like can you handle this over the next eight holes? It kind of provides a cool like first nine holes, it's in the back of my mind, I still got to play that hole excitement, and then the rest of the tournament I think it's awesome.
The way that back nine unfolds. You have scoring opportunity, scoring opportunity ten and eleven, but ten is a scoring opportunity fraught with danger. Then you go twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen is a brute of a stretch. Like if you get through those even par you've played very well, and then you get sixteen seventeen. Scoring opportunities in eighteen which used to be a little bit tougher than it is now, but like a you know, you have to hit two good shots finisher.
Yeah, it provides a good cadence of the round. I think Rivera has so much character and holes like ten are adding a lot of character to the golf course.
One hole that people love, which I put this in my notes, and this will be my last point on this, is like when we talk drivable for short. For one hole that people have really glombed onto and love more than ever is a third at augustin National, and that is a short four. It's not a drivable four. It is do you lay it up on the ridge? Do you hit it down into the valley? If the winds down wind? You see guys hit it over the green. You know, it's really really hard to hit it onto
the green. But what you see is you see a lot of different ways to play it and a lot of different shots from decisions made off the tee. If you lay back, you can all bring the bunker into play, and then if you hit into the bunker, you feel like a real idiot, you know, you know, if you hit it down, you see a really really tough shot up blind and everything. If you hit it back, it's a delicate chip over. So like, that's the thing that's super like to me. Seventeen at Scottsdale. I like. I
like the hole. I think we Garrett and I did a podcast about how cool it is. It's a cool hole. But one of the things about it is every guy is doing the exact same thing on that hole, and the best holes are creating different ways to play.
Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't I like I like seventeen at Scottsdale. I think it's fine. But when you have guys who hit the ball as long as they do and you have a water hazard down the left side, players really aren't going to challenge the hazard that much, and it kind of homogenizes play a little bit. So like almost every player is kind of aiming at the front right edge of the green. I think a really a brilliant short for brings there's more dimensions in That's
why I'm so optimistic about Whole six at LACC. Like, I think Whole six at LACC North is going to be I believe the best part best short for that we've seen in a while, maybe like in the last decade on TV. That hole you have actual options and Riviera doesn't present a lot of options on number ten, but I still think it's a cool hole because of the way it's touchy on and around the greens. Seventeen at Scottsdale doesn't present a ton of options. Six at LACC North will present options.
I think, like what the six at LACC North really brings to the table and shows is like it's super simple, right, but a narrow hole. Yeah yeah, so it kind of like goes down to the right. It plays downhill under the right. That green is blind from the tee but it's just over this like kind of dune. Then you
get down there and it's a super narrow green. It's got some heavy contour in it, but it's on a hard angle, so it kind of sits from right to left or from left to right, left, back left to front right on that angle, there's a bunker in front of it, and it's set up right on a hill. So you can either play the way the faraway works is super wide. You can play straight at the green and try and end up in the bunker short, which I think a lot of guys are going to do.
Or you can lay up way left and if you go if you push it way left, and this will be interesting to see if people get there, you all of a sudden are hitting right up the axis of the green right. The way the angle of the green is is what makes ten at RIV and six it at LA so interesting. Is this narrow green on a really hard angle, and this is something that could be
replicated all over the place. The other option in LA is hitting it over right, which I think will be probably the front bunker and over to the right will be the popular spots, because then from over right again you're chipping up the axis of the green. It's just hard to get over there, and you bring the risk of hitting it into native grass or you know, further right into trouble. What you know, do I explain that well enough.
I think, so we will see what that front bunker plays like. But from my experience on that golf course, that front bunker may not be the most attractive, especially depending on the pin. And I think what's so exciting about that hole is that danger is on and around the greens at three at Augusta, like you're mentioning, we know if you're in the wrong spot to certain pins like you are in danger of making a big number.
Scotti Scheffler chipped in last year on his way to winning, but that ball was almost well past the hole and now he's got a real problem. And like that, I think a fundamental ingredient of a good short Part four is that if you leave your ball on the wrong spot, you're looking at a big number. And sure Scottsdale can kind of do that, but it's doing it with water.
It's not doing it in a way that is more compelling to me, which is like the fescue and the dunes, like a six at Lacc North or the way Augusta number three does it.
I'd be interested if if you got rid of the water at Scottsdale and that was just a very steep shaved off area on the left. Would it be a better hole?
I mean, I would probably prefer it, But like that's I always appreciate when there's a steep runoff area that presents you with a really challenging hip that you might get to try a couple times.
M hm. I mean that back the back left pin is really awesome with Scottsdale because then all of a sudden, bailing out right is a bad decision. Right, It's not a bad decision with the water there, but it would become a very interesting decision with that pin if the left was fair away, like which way do you go? You know, all of sudden, guys would be trying to drive the green more right and it would be just
hit it out right and chip up right. So you know, the water may what people will say is, oh, that will make it easier, and scoring average would go down with that with removing the water. But would variants go up?
Variants probably would not go up because of what penalty hazards do, but like non penalty hazard related variants would go up. And that's I think a better test of golf. And you just have to realize when there's water on a course or on a hole, players really are going to move their target to take that out of play. And I think some of the personally, I think some of the worst short fors on the PGA Tour are holes like I think fifteen at Travelers is pretty boring, twenty fourteen Hollow.
What about twelve at Sawgrass?
Well, yeah, for sure, I think fourteen at Quail Hollow is really boring. Honestly, think about twelve at Sawgrass, fifteen at Travelers, and fourteen at Quail Hollow. They're all like three hundred yard holes with water on the left where every player is happy just being a little short right. Like, those aren't compelling par fours to me.
M yeah, I mean I think the twelve twelve at Sawgrass is a perfect example of when you let players design a golf hole, you know, it becomes really easy to figure out what to do every single time, and then they do that. That's what they like, you know that that's why they like super tree lined courses that they like to say require shot making, is because those those narrow courses with that move certain ways tell them exactly what they need to do.
I don't disagree with you. One other other hole that I had noted that I'm not sure if this is a hole you're super familiar with, but I think seventeen at TVC San Antonio is actually a pretty interesting short for.
You love san Antonio.
I actually do think that's a pretty good golf course for PJ Tour players. But that's an example of a hole where.
Maybe we should elevate the Vo Texas South. Then is it?
There are better hills for me to die on than that? But you can't. You can't just it's not super obvious what you should do off the tea there. You can't just hit a drive at front right edge of the green every time, especially based on the way the wind is blowing like that whole can play a lot of different ways, So that's something for people to watch. I think seventeen of Volariro is a good short.
For all Right, real quick before we let you go here, what are your thoughts on the SI World Golf rankings that came out today?
Oh? Yeah, I'll have more to say about this, but you know, when every person who tries to do a ranking system eventually figures out that the key to building a ranking system is building in some mechanism that evaluates players across tours. And you leverage the overlap. Right, this player played on this tour and then on this tour. Therefore, here's how good he or she is, And you know, here's a strokes gained associated with that player or whatever.
You have to have some baseline that's like an international currency for that player's skill level. What Sports Illustrated has chosen as that currency is your It's like funny to even say it out loud, your strokes per distance you played. So if you shoot seventy four on a seventy four hundred yard golf course, you divide that, and that is your skill that they use to determine some strengths, a component of the strengths of their fields. That's so beyond bad.
That's fifth grade math, fifth grade science fair. The only reason they're doing it is because it allows live in isolated entity that doesn't have crossover in their events, that doesn't have players playing on a bunch of tours. It allows them a way of ranking those players. So sure, go play an eight thousand yard golf course with no water hazards, just flat, huge greens, whole course flat. You'll show up pretty well in a skill rating like that.
It's a really smart way to rank golfers good good works Sports Illustrated.
Well, it's a very clear attempt to get live players into world ranking. And one of my favorite aspects of it was like one of the players that took the veiggest tumbles was Kevin Nah and he was a live player that doesn't hit it very far. He's like, it's just like it's so comical. It's uh, it was a I don't know if that's the best metric. If like, sure, that's a great metric for the long hitting live guys like Bryson. You know, that's a great way for Bryson.
But then like they have some shorter guys like West, He's not gonna show up well on there, Ian Poulter's not gonna show up well on that, or Kevin Not. Like they've got these other guys that you know, Graham McDowell, Like, none of those guys are gonna rate well on that on that ranking system.
I'm sorry, it's not a good ranking system for anyone. That is one of, if you know an ounce about golf, one of the worst possible ways that you can try to evaluate skill and standardize it. But hey, when you have no other way of doing it because you're there's no overlap your tour and other tours. That's what you have to resort to. You have to resort to something like that that says, hey, let's just base it off of the scorecard length really stupid.
All right, well we'll go runing.
On a positive.
Yeah, we're in in here. Great to have you on. We'll have you on in a couple of weeks probably, I don't know. At some point. We got two more designated events coming up soon and we're getting, you know, the lead up. We're right in Master season now. This is the one nice thing about going from the West Coast, Like when you leave the West Coast, is it signals like this is Master's lead up and we are in it obviously coming up here in a little bit.
More than a month, forty three days or something like that.
All right, thanks Joseph, thanks for having me.
It's fun.
All right. That does it for this episode of the Friday Podcast. We will be back early next week. I have an interview with Javier Campos, the superintendent at Cal Club in San Francisco, that will be up on Tuesday morning. It'll be a good chat. I'm doing it tomorrow, so I haven't. I can't tell you exactly what's in the chat, but it'll be there. This episode was produced and edited
by Matt Rusch's Thank you Matt. As a quick reminder, we have a bunch of photography on the website and the big news here is that we are now shipping internationally, so posters and prints those now can be shipped internationally. So if you're in Canada, UK, Australia you're looking for you wish you could get one of those prints that we have on our website, now you can, so posters and prints are available. We're working on doing more and
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