The Buck Club

I miss the green. For example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my.

Ball in a Frida Egg Friday.

Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg, Friday Frida Frida Egg bride.

Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course.

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg podcast. Here tonight in a new library, Zach Blair's library. It's a very comforting spot. Lots of golf, golf course architecture stuff. I guess it's in office, lots of golf clubs. It's a golfers heaven here with Zach and Dj Paiowski. How are you guys doing?

Yeah, doing good, doing great, Thrilled to be in the library. It's kind of halfway between the library and in office.

Uh yeah, yeah, it's cool.

It's fun.

Would you term it office library, a den, a den, a golfer's den. I could see that.

I don't know whatever.

Yeah, I used to live in a room that my roommates and I had joked that it was called the den.

It was very interesting. A room similar to this.

That's like, yeah, lots of Shenangans in the downs. But you go through some of the highlights of what's in here. Yeah, a lot of books, quite a few books. We'll post a picture of the full set of the confidential guys.

Shout out to my main man, Tom Doak, Doky.

Boy about seventy five Volky wedges, A lot of wedges, thirty five Cameron Potters.

Shout out to Aaron Dill and Scottie Cameron.

Hour glasses. Yeah, yeah, that's what the hour glasses.

They're cool little tidbits everyone.

Everyone likes them. So every time I see it cool one, I usually try and grab it.

It's not a symbolic of some of the players on the PGA tour.

No comment.

All right, Well, so we've been out in Utah for a couple of days now tour in the side of the bat Club.

Pretty cool spot. So how'd you how'd you come up on this property?

A man you know, had a couple of people who I know that you are involved with owning it right now, and just kind of told me that it might be a potential spot to look at.

Looked at it a few years.

Ago, and yeah, I saw that it had some some definite potential and turns out it's pretty good.

Yeah, really good. I think. I don't think it thinks.

Yeah, it's always nice to take people up there and see what they think, because you know, I always say everyone thinks their ideas are good. But when you go up there and people definitely think it's really cool, it's it's a neat feeling.

Yeah. I kind of wish we had a TV in here because I wanted to get a lot of inspiration from Nine Bridges, South Korea.

But I natural, yeah, I heard they have some really.

Cool fountains and water features there that we could maybe you know, you know, see on the buckalop. Why don't you tell people what they can expect from you know, the land and you know what what you see out there after the last couple of days.

Yeah, probably more than anything. I think it'll be on a different level of scale than most people are are used to. You know, you can compare it to you know, your National Golf Links and your sand.

Hills with.

Just the boldness of the whole place. And at the same time, I think you'll be able to see that it's extremely walker friendly and yeah, you'll just get a lot of different looks, some very cool vistas on the property, especially when you get kind of up to the top there and see everything.

The upper one hundred.

Yeah, the upper one hundred is pretty dope.

And shit, shit's dope, you guys. I'm teaching them in my One of my favorite terms is shit is dope.

Is dope. Shit is dope.

Though, let's talk about how the shit's done for a second, because we walk around there and it's like, it looks like the place was made. It looks like a video game where you're supposed to design a golf course.

I mean, the place is like was made to be a golf course up there.

Yeah, it's just kind of screaming, uh yeah for for amazing golf up there. Lucky to have it and lucky to be able to do something with it. And I think hopefully in the next little while people will begin to really see how special it is and they'll definitely want to be a part of it, you know.

I've heard that trending on Twitter. People were wondering if there was with Oh.

Definitely, I would say there was substantial with lots of angles over too much with.

A big ass piece of property.

It's cool, man, It's it'll be sweet.

Yeah, I'm I'm excited so having I mean, we spent a lot of days on the land, a lot of time on the land last two days, like what uh, And I think that the routing process was you know, there's it's it's intensive on routing and finding how the holes can work together. I mean, what this was obviously, what did you learn from it?

I mean it's just one of those things where you have to definitely pay attention because you have to you know, you have to find the best holes. Then you have to find a way to get to the best holes without it being you know, the same stuff over and over. So it was difficult. You know, there was definitely some some times that we found amazing holes that we're like, wow, that is awesome, but we had a hard time fitting it in to where you know, it was walkable and

We had to pass on some good holes.

Yeah, we did a bunch, but I mean that, I mean it's a piece of property where you know, there's a thousand golf holes out there and we just kind of had to narrow it down to eighteen which doesn't stink.

Yeah, one of the other cool things is there, you know, there's gonna be a lot of you know, adaptation holes where you can play it from different teas.

And yeah, you get out there on a day where there's not too many people out there, you're definitely gonna have some fun.

So it's going to be sick.

It's dope.

Shit's dope.

So with the kind of big Land, had a ton of questions. But Andrew Bailey was wondering, you know, after spending time on the land, what templates fit the best out there.

I mean, right off the bat, the Radan is just like, I mean, people think it's crazy, but I mean I think it'll go down as like the best ra Dan ever.

So that's that's not too bad.

Describe it kind of sucks that we have to do a podcasts about it because the it's so much more interesting to see. Just describe like what we found when we kind of drove up on that hole. I feel like we all kind of saw it at the same time.

We're like okay, but yeah, I mean I think that was I mean, that was the first hole everybody kind of when we were all out there together, it was just kind of like we all looked at that and we're like, well, we got one hole.

You know. Ironically, the radan, that hole was like a pain in the ass to rout it too.

It was almost like the lynch pan of the routing.

But at the same time, that's how good the hole was that there was you know, like we said, there was a thousand golf balls out there, and that was the one that was like, you have to keep this hole here, yeah, because it's that good.

It seemed every almost there's like two holes that didn't change, but every other hole change.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean that radan, the scale of that thing is just like you can't even the pictures that we even have it just like does not do it justice. The kicker out there on the right is.

Just seventy eighty feet tall.

The right, Ye mean, it's thirty yards right as a green, you like, our literally aiming thirty yards right.

Yeah.

When we were hitting shots out there today, it was cool. You know, it was cool to see you know, a couple of us kind of pulled it right at it. They ended up fine, and a couple of us kind of hit that little push out there up on the kicker and they just kicked right down right where it was supposed to.

Here, here's a question for you guys.

You know we've we've got a big day of dirkolf ahead of us tomorrow. But you know what, what were your what did you learn about dirt off what what are some of the challenges and what are some of the benefits of dirt golf?

Gotta gotta have a nice contact.

Gotta the friday was catching a little chunky out there for a while. It took you off to get warm. Things are a little over easy for me if the egg got there and uh to that end though, yeah, you tee it up a little bit. I think I think play the ball up across a plaid field.

You know, we messed around with the idea of taking the around and you.

Know, just the way the property is.

Yeah, I think you just gotta it's a TBC Winter.

Rules on.

Unpredictable rules. I think unpredictable bounces.

Yeah, dude, tomorrow is going to be sick.

Got the scorecard ready, Gonna have a nice little walk on the upper one.

Hundred brisk in the morning. We'll figure it out.

I think it'll be nice walking though.

We'll keep the Instagram story on Yeah, yeh Fried Underscore, Egg Underscore Golf.

Maybe we even fire up the periscope z ZB Live, z McDonald zb McDonald live.

So another thing we're doing this is kind of cool, is we've got a ton of massive bunkers out there, some small ones too. There's a there's a little one that's blind that you know. I've named the Shotgun Surprise. But we're we're planning on naming all the bunkers. So if you guys have good bunker names, he just reply to the pod or something on Twitter, or shoot just an email.

Do you have any good ideas? Best bunker name gets a free membership. I don't know. If that's not cleared by the Honor, we'll work it in.

Maybe we can get around out there.

Pure gotta love a guy that's not a member of himself, just throwing out trees.

What other dames?

Do we have?

Any other bunker names? Shotgun Surprise, Shotgun Surprise, Tron's traphouse.

Yeah eighteen, Tron's trap house. Definitely spot you want to stay out of.

Yeah, that's gonna be a be a bad one. Tron I had a question, actually, he had a couple questions.

Some good ones, So we'll get to those, friend of the pod, friend of the cause.

Yeah, definitely some daft bunkers out there.

Yeah, just.

Sat there, dath bunk deep as fuck. You might have to bleep that one that. I think the Frida Egg has the explicit rating, does it?

Yeah?

Does?

Which is pretty shocking that a podcasts about golf course architecture has the explicit raking.

Hard ships, dope shits, dope man school, blank you of golf course architecture.

This might be the most swearing ever on a on a Frida Egg podcast. Here Tromp's question, Let's say a TVC member is involved in backboarding a short approach shot and not protecting in the field, automatic expulsion from the club plus fatfa.

I mean, that's just I think it's a case by case deal there.

You know, what do you think the big tabernacle is going to be, you know, an habitual thunder of that?

Nah, definitely not.

I don't think it was really his fault.

I think it was. I think it's a one time thing.

He might actually just Tony Fena might just bully some of us halls, even PHOENI might.

He might get even he's gonna even he's gonna have to kind of nut up a little bit on twelve.

Yeah, two good shots up there.

The thing is out there if if you hit it to the right spots, like, you're fine. You know you got plenty of room. But I mean there's some bunkers out there that it doesn't matter who's trying to carry him.

It's just not going to happen. And some angles. Yeah, down windy. Do you think Tony can get home to seven and ten yard part five? I think so.

Firm and fast, Yeah, Utah elevation, I'll hit it like a four hundred. But the thing on that hale, but the thing on that hole with the huge hell's half acre type great hazard is you're gonna be forced kind of up. You know that fairway is going to kind of narrow up the further you go, So.

You better hit a good one. So let me ask you the toughest aspect.

One of the toughest aspects of design is blending playability with like a challenge for player players like you.

So from your mind, what are the things that make it the toughest on like.

The tour level player, the tour level player, say, upper level amateur player, Like what are the kind of like design traits and features.

Up there. I think you'll see, you know, just a lot of holes that use the earth pretty good, just the ground that's there. So I think you'll see some uneven lies that are a bit of a challenge. And then I just think using the half pars as best you can, because you kind of get into some of those holes thinking their birdie holes, and you miss it in the wrong spot and all of a sudden you screw up, and then you start forcing it on some of those four and a halfs that you know are

Yeah, I think that's the best courses are the ones where if you play well, you you score, but if you're a little mediocre, then it kind of.

Gets you bits you.

It's I think I also agree that ground undulation, like if you give somebody a wedge, but the wedge the balls like three inches below their feet on a downslope, it's like just an uncomfortable shot.

Well, I think that ninth all, you know, I know we're talking about it a little more, but you know, it's a hole that kind of hits up onto the top of this hill and then it goes down to this big double green. But if you force it up there and try and get over the hill, you're gonna get these like ninety to one hundred and twenty yard wed shots straight off the down slope to a green that slopes back to front, where if you once skip it over, you're just done.

So that's I played Crystal every day and that's why I saw it's only sixty six hundred yards and I drove the ball really well. But like if you drive it, they let you drive it up close. But then you get these like really uncomfortable lies. You're hitting half ledges to these these greens that are like you have to be really precise hitting into the greens.

And that it was tough. It was it just you know, like it keep kept you on edge.

I think ground movement keeps you on edge, like saying from flat lies like going to the range.

Yeah, yeah, it's uh so.

Another question from tron here he got his out of the way, says the better ones later, has the Fas gotten so much flack for being overrated that he's now underrated?

I mean, I told you guys today, I think the Fas might go down in history is the Donald Ross of his generation. So I don't know, I think.

Uh yeah, the worst generation of golf architects of all time.

No, but but it's like it's like our point. It's like pebble beach is on the water, like you can't.

That's he's the biggest fish in a puddle.

He's still the biggest fish though, right, It's like you can't, you can't.

Donald Ross isn't the biggest fish though. And in the Golden Age fuddle, he had the most courses.

That's what I was gonna say.

Well, that's what I'm at.

That's a that's a tough thing. It's like, how do you how do you jet?

Like?

You know?

They I feel like you can judge the Golden Age because they're all dead.

Fozzier does what he's paid to do. He makes these courses for what he's told to make them. I'm sure if he got a piece of property that he could do whatever he wanted it might be different, but he's made you know, he's paid and hired to do you know, the Discovery Land project type courses and he doesn't good right, I don't know. I just and he's fired up with the last question lack of just the lack of one like.

It, with all the projects and all the money he's gotten to do these projects where he has unlimited budget.

Like you gotta have one that's like, oh yeah, that's one of the best courses ever. What's his best?

What are the ones Shadow Creek? Maybe?

What are the ones from Donald Ross like Seminole, Pinehurst, Oak Hill. But at the same time, like, what if one of those places in thirty years turn you know that that Fazzio is done, turns into something like that that people agree is amazing.

I don't know. I guess if like it's.

Hard to judge, it's hard to judge.

Side a dog legs becoming in vogue, like yeah, catch basins like that, I'm in you know that's that sounds like that might be twenty twenty.

Those things are gonna get hot. I think you need more catch.

Bass I really think where we're at right now with the catch basins, water features and comfort stations at TBC.

Is it's pretty ideal.

Yeah, even hamplets and catch bases at the bottom of the double perch bowl.

I think maybe like yeah, right up front, maybe in the middle, in the.

Middle of the punch bowl.

Yeah, the inverted it's double punch bowl is gonna be a jaw dropper.

But you need to explain that inverted.

But I think, but the problem But the problem is it looks like that right now. But once it gets graded out, it'll just be a big double punch ball.

It's not gonna be but there'll be a little little humped humped.

You don't It'll just be like this, it'll go there there. It's not going to be like this and then like that. Nope, we're out.

I'm out, all right.

Maybe maybe it's maybe it's done so the.

Doak scale, bellly Neal number friend of the Cause, big architecture fan. Yeah, Zach, you've you've made mentioned before about modern greens being too over the top.

Can you elaborate and site specif pick examples of these courses and show your work. Sounds like a test question.

I know, my god, I love it. Ohly cah, I think there's too many examples for me to get naming specifics. What we talked about a few today. You know, maybe a couple up it up and bandoned at basically all the courses up there, maybe specifically bandoned trails have a couple that are just out of control. Same with friars Head.

Yeah, I agree with this. I think there are time and place for wild greens.

I do. I think there's some cool spots you can do.

In certain situations, but they have to be done in the very right setting.

I just like, I feel like when people say that, they're like, yeah, I think you know, on short par fives or on drivable par fours, you can have these greens. But I'm sitting there thinking like I would rather have a not wild green on those holes because if I pull off the shot and drive a short part four, I want like to make an eagle. I don't want to have to try and not three putt, you know what I mean. And that's some of the some of

Sometimes subtlely is the hardest thing straight puss or the hardest puss to read.

Yeah, don't you spend the last time reading straight putts?

Yeah, probably trying to find something, you know, trying to find which way it goes, and it just doesn't do anything.

Our greens like that.

We always talk about like potential defenses for professional game, just with distance and all that stuff. You're always kind of looking for different ways to perfect the course. Do all that I mean, is that an opportunity to use some of those wild greens or no, I know we're talking about two different things. We're talking about kind of recreational golfers professional golf.

But do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Kind of?

I don't know.

I mean it's I you know, my whole take is, if you get the course in the right shape and the right conditions, playing firm and fast, you don't have to have wild greens. You know. It puts a premium on getting the ball in play and being on the right spot to be able to attack pins and stuff like that. So I don't think you need to go crazy in tournament golf or recreational golf.

Yeah, I feel like that's the philosophy behind it, is like, oh, if you're a really good player, you should be able to hit this ball within eight feet of the fly. And if not, then you Like my issue is like part of the fun of golf is rolling.

In thirty footers exactly.

And sometimes when you have puts the break ten feet fifteen feet, it's just like, well I'm going to do like it's not really fun. And that's the other thing is like a put over a big ridge with like a lot of break, like a.

Good player like just cozies you up there like two feet.

Well that's the other thing I guess too, is It's kind of one of the stats that turns out to be ass backwards a little bit, like when people say, oh, you know, the ball's going too far, we need to make the course is longer, and it really just helps the longer players. The wild greens kind of just you know, you're really just taking away from the people who can put it well right I mean, and giving the longer players like another advantage.

But then on the opposite side of that, from like from you know, growing the game and getting more people involved and having fun and stuff like that, It's like, why would you want to build these crazy greens where somebody that's just starting to play is trying to too putt and they can't, like good players can't even two putt. And then you get somebody that has no touch or anything. They'll like give up the first time they ever go play one of those courses. Yeah, you know what I mean.

It I'm.

Of really bold exterior contours with subtle and intricate interior.

Contours where you've got like a.

Lot of spines and stuff that are subtle and they're small.

Like there's a there's.

A par three at the course I play at that's like a really big green and there's this tiny little spine that runs right down the middle and you're hitting like a fore iron into it, and it's got a lot of front back to front slope. So but when you're putting, if say you pull your fore iron left and the pins on it right, like you've got this like really dicey pot over the spine. If you don't hit the perfect pace, you either you end up five

Yeah, I mean, I mean, we played Fishers earlier this year, and I think they have some of the coolest just subtle greens out there. You know, a little back to front, but like you said, they got these these gentle spines that kind of if you get on the wrong side, you have a more challenging putt. But you can do it, you know, you if you put a good role on it, you can a maybe make it, and b it's never going to get like to the point where you're like, wow,

Everyone's going to have a different opinion. M I agree. I think that's the beauty of golf course architecture.

Yeah, for sure, definitely learning that more and more as the years go. Everyone's got a different flavor that they like, you know, which isn't bad.

All right, Brandon Barry wants to know what's the Buck Club's practice facility is going to consists of practice facility, you know, decent range, a little short course.

You know, a lot of people been talking about how much they love the putting courses and everything like that. I've never been.

A huge fan.

But if enough people like that type of stuff, I'm out on putting.

I think they're overrated. You're out. That's how I am.

But people seem to like.

What did you like? I don't get what you would not like about it.

I just like, I feel like they're cool for about a year and then they gradually start Like we had a really cool one down in Saint George at Heart make sam Pala, and it was unbelievable, like crazy, and it was fun, really cool. But after about a year and a half and no one like using it, suddenly it turned into where they only started mowing a little bit of it, and then it gradually turned into where they stopped mowing most of it, and it turned into

Bally Neil has one. It's like an acre and a.

Half and it's brand new though, but like okay, like you have to pay a ground screw guy.

It takes like two guys two.

Hours to mow it exactly a day.

Two hours, Like think about that over the year.

That's let's just say it's forty bucks a day, Like it adds up. Then you add all the pesticides, all the sprays, you have to do, all the maintenance, Like that is an expensive green.

Yeah, and like.

It it's like couldn't it be like half the size and still be really cool.

Well, it's like, I mean, I grew up with my friends just on a regular putting green having and it was just as much fun. Yeah, doing what we were doing, and it was regular.

It doesn't need to be that big.

I would much rather have a sick little par three course, yeah, short course or whatever, where you can go out, take a couple of clubs and still put and just whip around, play as many holes as you want and call it a night.

You could probably build a par three course with ten greens for as much and have as much green space as a one and a half acre putting green.

Yeah, that's big question, you know how big?

I mean, like if we pulled up what a one and a half acre looked like on my like Google maps, you guys would be like, what the fuck are they doing?

It is cool though, it's got some lights over it. But that's the other thing. The lights aren't on the whole putt and green. Yeah, half the pudding green isn't lighted. Lit Li lit the conversations.

Lit all right, I hate them, You don't hate I don't hate them. I'm just out on him.

I'm out exactly how I feel.

It makes practical sense to get it out of here, get it out. I'm very practical.

First.

Yeah, I love my wife tells me that all the time.

I think about how much money you're David, And then you can get that guy with the bunker suggestion free membership. There's just saved you two billion bucks at putting costs over the course of the year.

All right, better than most.

Would the Buck Club ever consider opening its future doors for public play once a month or twice a month or some sort of regularity.

Yeah, We've been talking about this a lot lately. I think it would be cool to do some sort of a lottery system to where you could open it up on you know, special occasions or whatever. I don't know how often you would do it.

What what what did.

We talk about today?

I don't know. You could do it a couple of times a year. You get them like that night, you know, like you're gonna.

Have cabins, so you do like the whole experience where they come staying in the cabins play, So it would only be like, yeah.

Fifty guys.

Yeah, I think if you did that a couple like a couple times a year.

Are you gonna do the closed on Monday's thing.

I don't know, uh man, I'm kind of up in the air on that stuff. It's like you only have like a seven or eight month season out here, so it's like you probably want to play as much as you can.

I'm out of closed on Mondays, I'm out. I don't like that.

Maybe we close on Sundays up here.

Oh throwback, No, I'm just kidding. The Lonery systems cool, it's kind of really it's kind of got a Wally Walk vide to it. You gotta figure figure out what your golden tickets are.

Yeah, it'd be sick. I think it'd be cool if you had them bring out a group too. Yeah.

You never know, you know, you never know who's going to come out by the house. Yeah, you never know who's going to come out and just absolutely fall in love with the place. And I want to want to be in.

Yeah.

And if not, I mean they go play once and they got their photos and they tell the story.

Top one hundred chasers sign up exactly. Let's say, uh, let's go with here. Overrated, Underrated. I haven't played here, so you guys, this is you guys.

Overrated, Underrated, abandon dammed, whole resort golf experience you go first.

I played a couple of the courses up there. I've played all of them in it underrated, I think. I mean, it's it's so rated, so many people have rated it, but like.

That's probably among the most fun I've ever had played golf. I mean, part of that was company, and part of that was the weird weather that we had. It was like thirty five on our winds for four straight days. But I think part of the deal so fun, and it's so there's just no distractions. That's that's like one you want to eat, you don't even want to like do anything else.

You just want to play golf all day. And that's that's what that's what they set you up to do.

Yeah, it's a cool it's a cool place, so I'd probably say underrated, But that's that's the whole point. It's like you're there to play golf, like you're not going to abandon to do anything else basically, So I mean it just sets up perfectly to have fun, especially if you have the right crew up there, and it's like.

You know, you just don't have to think about anything when you get there except by golf. You get. They got the shuttles running around.

That you you just walk out of your front door, jump on a shuttle. It takes you to the driving range, it takes you to the golf course, it takes you to the restaurant takes It's nice.

How everything's right there too. Yeah, you know, you stay at nice places. It's perfect. Its scenic, The courses are great, and I mean.

It's just it's just so fun.

A couple of greens just a little over the top, but other than that, solid giant What was your huting course? Yeah?

Which ones?

Did you?

That used to be?

When I went up there, that was a driving range and they've turned it into a putting course.

Giant course. It's so big, jumbo jumpo.

What is it called.

I think they drink, which is pretty pretty cool.

It's great. There's a waitress walking around like taking order. Seriously, it's awesome. I think I might have to go up there.

One of these days.

I would go up I think we go as somebody who talked about golf courses for a living, you should get abandon from.

You know what.

I think that there's been enough noise about it that I got more important places.

You try to other play readers.

No, I don't know.

I'm trying.

You know, DJ tried to only play Morris's I did, I would say GB, and I was only playing Morris's.

How was the Sam Andrews experience? What did? What did you? What? What would you say? You went into it thinking that changed when he came.

Out of it?

I mean I said it on Twitter when I got DOWNE. I mean I was trying.

I was sitting just like looking at my phone, trying to come up with some profound thing to say about the experience, and I mean it kind of hit me up, like what the hell am I going to say? That hasn't been said by everybody else? And it's one of those things that I mean, you read books about it, you read whatever, you read everything about it, you watch everybody play, you hear people talk about it, and I don't think it's anything that I don't know.

I don't know.

It's kind of hard to explain. I don't know that there was anything that really click that I didn't know or think of or whatever. It's just it just reaffirms what you've just heard constantly. I mean, the one thing I think I was talking to Zach about today was the bunkers some of the I mean, the bunkers are amazing.

The bunkers are you know, you get out there and we're talking about it.

There's some weird bunker at three eighty that you're like, why does this exist?

And then the wind changes or whatever.

You I mean, you can you could see how they would come into play on weird days. But the other thing is that I don't think you can really get from photos or from washing on TV. Is you get out there and you're you turn around and you look back and you kind of think about how it was set up to play the other way, and you start looking at where some of the bunkers are set up for playing it backwards and stuff, and it just it's just so cool, man. It's just everything about it is cool.

Dude.

When I went out there, when I played there last year for the Dunhill Links, which is like the sickest tournament ever, to put it in perspective, I was hitting drives into the wind like two forty five, and I was hitting them downwind like three sixty. So that's the That's where you see those bunkers where you're like, why would they ever have that there? And then you get it on the next day with the opposite wind, and you are in that bunker and you're just like, Okay, that's that's why it's there.

You know.

You go from hitting a two hundred and forty yard drive on a hole to driving the green the next day, and you're just like, this is insane. That place is like that place has got width.

Like mad width.

That is well the kind of related on that. I mean, it's just in a really cool way. It's just madness.

Yeah.

Out there, Like it's like there's just like traffic running all over the place out there. You know, like obviously there's like the crossholes of seven and eleven, But how sick is that?

I cool?

Next, I mean, you're just if you don't know what you're doing, or you're you're kind of looking off in the distance or something, but you can walk right in front of a tea boxes, guys are teeing off.

There's you hit a shot.

You all of a sudden, you see someone come over the hill and you're there's people are shouting all day. It's just it is complete mad all the double greens.

Yeah, I've heard rumors that the RNA is.

Thinking about implementing a no texting while playing policy because it's becoming a problem.

Is that true?

Yeah?

People walking in front of greens and I'm just kidding.

I'm interested to see what they do with that new pond they're putting on seventeen there though, big water feature.

It's a fountain, right, yeah, well it should be nice because you can see which way the wind's going.

And it'll be cool for the guys at the Old Course Hotel to kind of look out and have the fountain.

Beautiful and other news. I have heard that and I can't trolley.

Speaking of the water features, I think it was our guy Micah push Daddy and him and Tron and Sean Martin and all these guys were getting there was this poor follower there. I tweeted something and these guys were joking, Oh man, this guy just bit the whole just hook glide and sinker out the whole thing. And Mike is tweeting about how dumb it is that you have to hit over the hotel and how wind is stupid.

So he doesn't like going there, and it was so goodicatrolling.

It was dope.

Yeah, man, I look at I look at the Old Course basically every day I'm home, you know, Yeah, big posters right up in the office.

It's just so cool.

It's definitely an inspiration.

What's the best baker at the old Course?

I don't know, there's so many, Like we talked about that. You're just like, why is that there? And I found out on a few of them minutes.

Is there any shot I'm surprises out there?

Yeah, sixty there, man, I'm trying to think there's one that's just like so bad. Okay, twelve there's a bunker like right in the middle of the fairway. It's kind of one of the questionable holes out there where you're.

Like, that's a good one where you're looking back the other way.

You're yeah, so there's this bunker at like two thirty or like two twenty, and a lot of guys like hit it left in the gorse or you know, in the heather over there just to not be in this bunker, or you hit like a five iron off the tee

Not good, not good at all. Uh.

Drew nan Zinsky has got an interesting question. I'm very curious about this. How many round have you did?

You?

Have you logged in twenty seventeen do you have? I mean he's got you for thirty five plus events and all your other rounds. You gotta be one fifty plus.

Right, Yeah, I mean I play a lot of golf. I have no idea though, I mean I don't keep tracking.

Have you when was the last time you took like a week off? This was it? Right now? You're still playing though? Like hitting shots? Yeah, man, that's hard.

I usually try and like after the.

You don't do that tour players where it's like, you know, I can't go, I don't even touch a club.

You hear so many people.

Say that it's just like, man, I didn't even touch a club.

Yeah, I mean I hear people say that all the time, and I'm just like, it's like, it's your job. You didn't touch it at all one percent?

Do you think it's fake when people say that? Really?

For sure, I didn't touch it four weeks.

That was like Jason Day a couple of years ago said that he didn't touch a club after the FedEx Cup Finale, the Tour Championship until like Hyundai. And I talked to one of one of my buddies, one of my buddies, buddy caddies at Fantage Club and he was like, yeah, Dave was like day, spent like ten hours a day at the Chicken Green.

We had a kid, We had a kid in Utah.

This is a true story.

I won't name any names, but we did the same thing. He was like, yeah, man, I haven't played forever. I haven't been practicing or anything. Then we saw his like wife at lunch or something, and she was like, yeah, he's been out at you know, Thanksgiving point hitting balls like every day. And we were just like what he told us, like he hasn't hit balls and like it's

Don't think it sounds like that cool. It's like I would rather hear somebody like, yeah, I went and played like a sick course. Like it's watching golf on TV thing. I think. Yeah, I don't watch golf on TV. I'm I bet you probably do. I bet you do.

I'm out on that. I'm out on both of those.

Yeah, we should be watching nine Bridges right now, is it on?

Yeah? I don't watch golf whenever. Oh man, he's not touching the club. He's just getting away for the game. We need to see that.

I'm designing golf courses and playing thirty six a day.

He was surrounded by four hundred golf clubs and paintings and books.

Yeah.

I just would need to get away from the game, man game, the game.

Yeah, some people, you know, some people, like I said, I think it's a ninety percent thing. I think there are legitimately some guys that they probably do do that. You know, maybe some more of the guys that have families and andy.

Are you over under eleven rounds in twenty seventeen. Oh wait, I have taken some substantial breaks out.

Oh, I know, it seems like you're traveling all over the place. We never get to play well.

Recently, I've been out of Binge. I've played a lot of really good golf lately.

But the wedding. The wedding wasn't.

Where does where does TVC stack up with some of these spots you've been playing dirt.

Golf just just in general, aditional you know, we're all I feel like we're on the same favorite kind of post conditioning though. Yeah, it's all about the layout out there today.

I mean it real slow, but I've had a good time. I'm just all about hitting golf shops. You know what I loved about. What I loved about the conditioning is that, like you road cross, it's sustainable.

Far you you read about all you know, golf's a game of luck, and.

I'll tell you you get some weird bouth.

We went back to definition.

Tomorrow's gonna be even better. Yeah, we're we're picking up cups in the morning at like five thirty.

I think we got to do better. I think we got to find I have a shovel and we'll be able to dig a couple of those cups.

A little better.

Ane of those army trench shovels that we can just put them the golf there.

Hey, when you were ever in Scotland, did you see any of those like old relic clubs that were made to hit out of? Oh yeah, buggy tracks.

There's a guy in Chicago that's not that far from Andy, How sick are those? Has a collection of those and he's got just like all the weird all the weird clubs ever made. And Yeah, I get to go shout out Goffer's journal, coming story about him in there, Golfer Journal, Friend.

Of the Pod, friend of the pod, friend of the cause.

Coffers, I'm a founding member.

I got two stories in the next one. Yeah, community president too much. I let that in the freight of the yucles no platform.

How about the building the butt club story, that's gonna be dope.

Yeah, lots of good stuff. Figure that.

I think we need to throw out a little teaser video of some sort of aerial to kind of let people just we can do a snippet, we'll get a glimpse.

So Barry w.

Another friend of the Yeah, he's got a question. Is there not a paradox of part quote unquote being just a number to the non tournament enjoyment and contextual reward of playing individual holes by extension a whole course. Well, so you know you need something to judge that you're playing well. If you never knowingly make a birdie, doesn't golf lose a little bit.

Of its purpose and fun if based on an eighteen hole shot.

Count I kind of think so a little bit.

I'm kind of on both sides, really well thought out point. Yeah, that was a like that was a long question. Switch it was it was it was be a message. He wrote you a letter. Yeah, I have another letter too. I guess I get letters.

There were some times where I thought about doing something like that with TBC and not doing a par and just go out and you make what you make. But there is that kind of I don't know how to explain it, but you know, sometimes when you get up on the last hole and it's a par five and you're trying to make an egal, you know you're not trying to make a three trying to I don't know, I don't know. It's weird.

There's also the weird coolness of I mean, par just forces people to do stupid stuff, which is fun. Agreed, you know, I mean, like the there's I mean, it's not gonna throw out spiccause nobody's gonna know.

What the hell we're talking about.

But there's a couple holes that we're looking at today that are I don't know.

I mean, it's stupid and it shouldn't be the case.

But because you say this is part three, I'm like, fuck, all right, better or not up and hit one hit one down there then whereas the field was a part four, I laid back, you know, and it's just it's so stupid, but everybody does it, and it's just it's kind of great.

The three and twenty yard b that's par three down.

I was dogging on Balion Eels putting green.

I can give them props here because what I what they do that I love No te.

Markers see you play from whatever tea you want. Well, they have par but no t markers. See I was at that.

I was in on that originally too, But at the same time I read all this stuff on like Golden age guys wanting you to play from a specific place, and that's why they put things in certain spots and bunkers in certain positions, because that's the look they wanted to give you. So if you have the ability to play from anywhere you want, you get to manipulate what the architect was intending you to play.

I do like I'm a fan of the wide I'm a fan of the shallow but wide tea boxes and being able to co change at angles.

About what about the TBC double T box.

Yeah, for that triple T box, like fifty.

Yards wide, goes for two holes. That's the videos we should post and you can peg it anywhere.

I should post the triple T box video. It's so good. The uh so, my thing with Parr it is more so. I would say it's more so for.

The professional game is that the game is fundamentally changed because of technology, both course technology like club technology, ball technology, where like courses aren't part seventy twos that are seventy twos, like they just aren't so like like the US Open this year because of the weather conditions and technology, like they had four part fives, but everybody a lot of people were getting home.

Into Well yeah, I think it's I think it's just that perception hasn't caught up to reality.

Looking people see a five hundred and fifty yard gold. Look at what happened when you try to call it a part four, everyone freaks out.

Even know realistically, look at what happened with seven hundred, seven hundred yard part five? Is what a five hundred and sixty yard part five twenty years ago?

Yeah, but look at what happened with baseball steroids? Okay, Like, so you had steroids and all these records were broken, there were no good pictures, and then there are no steroids now and it's like it's back to normal, Like guys had forty over runs.

There are great errors. It's like thirty five is like a really great power year. And those steroids, yeah, there are any.

The guys aren't taking steroids, so pitching is back, Like pictures are dominating again because guys aren't juicing. Like if you take away the juicing, like all of sudden, scores would go up.

So how do you do that in golf? You roll all the technology back. That's tough, it is, it won't I don't think it's gonna happen.

But like technology is essentially the steroid or a baseball is the golf. That's why we saw so many record breaking scores every year, like this year we're gonna see five four or five.

Scores in fifty.

What's your what's your thoughts on that? If you can't roll back technology, what do you do either to build courses or what do you do to defend courses?

What's your thoughts?

I just think that people you should just lower the like if you want to keep the scoring records and the under par over par criteria, you just.

Think courses par sixty seven, sixty eight. It almost seems like it's not as fun.

It almost seems like you're gonna get to a point where you have to if you don't buy for Kate equipment, you have to buy for Kate courses, where like we've seen it basically with the US Opening the last how many of the last I mean, how many of the last ten or I don't know, seven to ten US Open courses were built US.

Chambers Aaron Hills. I mean, I think I feel like it was more. I mean Oakland was not. I don't think at least I.

Can double check that still even those two and maybe I don't know, maybe that's a bad point, but it kind of feels like it just feels I mean, there's an economic reality where you can't just keep stretching out.

You know.

I have the funniest story I'm gonna tell you guys, but it's it's hilarious, it's about it's about an upcoming US Open site. It's just dude, I gotta tell you guys now.

So I was kind of spiraling on that take. It's good.

This was unbelievable because of the coincidence of all the stuff that had to go on for this story to be crazy and funny. So I was out at the Utah Open. I was playing a couple of weeks ago, but touch a glob. But before my round I went out to watch a couple of my friends.

Sounds like that's a pretty cavalier.

And my dad caddied for me before his rounds and I caddied for him too. Seems like that.

After my round one, I think Tron might need to get it.

Totally legal. We had we had people call in about it, but it was fine.

But anyways, back to the story. So I'm out there watching.

And this guy comes up to me and goes kind of you know, gets on that type of subject. He goes, Zach, what do you think about? And meanwhile, this guy he's not like doesn't have probably the highest golf IQ. He's just there to watch whatever. And he's like, Zach, what do you think about you know, the USGA trying to make all these courses like British Opens and you know, building all these courses and playing all these courses with these wide fairways and this fescue grass everywhere.

And that's why I'm just sitting there, going, where is this going?

And he goes and I hear next year they're going to this place, Shanook Hills.

What is that about?

Meanwhile, no, Lie, I'm wearing a Shinnacock shirt just with the Indian head on it. I mean, he's got no idea, and I'm just sitting there laughing, going, you know, Chinook's a top five course in the in the States, so I mean, I think it'll be all right. But it was just hilarious.

Shinooka type of fish.

I don't know, dude. Literally I was dying laughing when he said that. And the fact that I was wearing the Shinnacock shirt was just like next level. The poor guy, I have no idea.

It's all right, you guys want to do some overrated underrators, Let's do it.

Sunday Bags.

Underrated, very underrated, shout out to uh, make some kids.

Yeah, I'm fully online, I'm fully online. I'm fully awake because this is a funny story. So I brought DJ to the Renaissance Cup for sure.

We're in the parking.

Lot of the Renaissance Cuff is like Tom Doak's event, and the invites like all architects and people of the industry. So it's a lot of architecturally woke people. And DJ mottles out of his travel bag. We have the name of the bag, a Bull Valley golf Club bag. And I look at it and I go, dude, you can't use that bag here? And uh and he goes, yet, I took up my wife. I had a Sunday bag in my back and my trunk with all my wife's clubs, you know, and I just took it out.

You gotta use this. And then he got on the Sunday Bag wagon.

Haven't looked back, walk back to win it, win it, Bull Valley bag, hasn't men und full of I got.

I got a good share of Sunday bags, wide share.

Yeah. The bags that one Buck Club one pretty sick three of them. Yeah, that's the original though.

Shout out to Links and Kings.

All right, Jimmy logus overrated, underrated golfing in a missy rain.

So my whole over last Yeah yeah, my whole thing is like I play enough and where I have to play and stuff like that that I'm not about, like going out and playing in terrible.

Weather misty rain, not not hard rain, misty. Yeah. So yeah, say overrated. I was when I was in Ireland.

It was doing that all day and the caddies were kind of like, hey, you know, ship man, sorry didn't get better weather. And at first I'm kind of like, oh, you know, I'm in Ireland, like this is kind of what I'm looking for, and it's like the seventh pole of like this fucking sucks. This is awful.

It doesn't.

It's just like it's just a nuisance. Yeah, it's like do I get the umbrella out?

I I don't think he's talking about that.

It was miss ray. I trust me, I know exactly what he was talking about. Jimmy disagreed with you. That's what I likes it.

Wait, so he asked if it's overrated and underrated, and then he gave his tail.

I kind of like it.

I like it.

Those things overrated, underrated.

Johnny Miller, commenting on Zach's demo shots Monday morning, I don't know what.

That means, have no idea what that means. Do you know what that means?

We had a cougar day out at Riverside the other day.

Inside question, I guess whatever Johnny does.

Underrated, overrated, underrated, sand based lamb.

I think I think, what'd you say?

I said? Underrated? I think it's overrated.

Probably.

I think it's underrated because like.

The vast majority of the greatest golf course in the world belt on it.

So but I feel like now you can do a good job of replicating that.

It's still not the same.

All Right, we'll see, we'll see.

I think you eat.

You can't agree on everyone, right, I'll take the hit there.

Two iron overrated and underrated? Dave? Well, what just the question was too iron to day the day Dames Dave was the name.

And his it's just two iron overrated and underrated. I think overrated, so overrated? Why would you try and do stuff that's harder? Yeah, that's that goes back to that same thing. It's like I played two iron, but if the same sounds cool, but at the same time, like playing Person and Driver, which was another thing we got to do with the Renaissance Cup, way underrated and that's way harder, but it's so much fun. But the two Iron is weirdly not. It doesn't feel like the same thing to me.

That Person and Driver I hit still went far Hey, same thing though. I told you guys about the I told you guys about the wound Ball. I was playing the other day the Ballata. It was like literally five yards behind my drives.

You should give shout out to ball Wednesday.

Yeah, shout out to uh wound Ball Wednesday at TBC. Come out with the old school ballatas.

Dude, the old school blatas crosswind, firm and fast conditions.

You find yourself in some bad spots out there. You can get cold sideways quick.

Yeah, that'll be definitely, you know, we'll definitely have to figure out some bunkers for wound Ball Wednesday where you're like, why is that there? And then you get there Wednesday and they're like, here, here's your here's your sleep of bunker.

Yeah, you know what.

You should You should also buy eighteen percent and Driver or like fourteen thirteen percent drivers.

Put them on all the tea boxes.

Put them in the comfort station, dude, the San Hollow down in Saint George. They have the links course, and they have the like I don't know, replica balls that you can play with, like hickories and persimmons. It's pretty sick.

Over under it.

Bunkerless holes, Oh, we're talking about that this week. That's an anonymous gunner.

I think they're probably underrated. You don't see them too often, at least you don't see great ones too often, so good bunkerless holes.

Future on the skill is going to be a bunkerless hole. I'm no, no, I'm on board. Underrated. We got any bunkerless at TBC?

I mean you think you could do bunker liss anyone's you.

Can think of right off the top of your head where.

I'm thinking the double punch bowl Mmm could be one that.

Yeah, but you got the right down the room day a.

Dam But that doesn't that doesn't count for that hole.

I think you want to do bunkers on those. You got some really good spots foot bunkers there. That's not the one.

That's not the one.

You know what one?

You don't want it? Hey, the hole where you want the shotgun bunker could be a decent one with no bunkers.

Dude, you can't take the shotgun surprise.

I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you that could be a cool Pull the green just you know sits right to left, have this huge collection area off to the left. If you miss it, you pull a drive, it goes down there and you just you just live with it.

It's heartbroken. You're killing the shotgun surprise.

I'll keep it.

I'll find another shotgun surprise. I'm gonna move on in that bunker. I've heard it's not on the panel. Over under shoes Versus regular lyces what what is it? My stupid ass click on shoes. I'm out. I'm so.

I actually hate them. I can't wait until next year. I only buy one pair of some sneakers.

Bro, I'm sure, but Joy can hook it up.

I'm not getting crooked like that.

I've got one pair of shoes every year, and I just wear the ship out of them so that by the time this time every year, they look like.

I just don't get the Yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna say overrated. Just leave it there. Yeah, I like that. Just ti your shoes, you know. Yeah, I just don't get what. I don't get the point I will see.

I will sell lasers, the one where you just step in and they just look back.

To the futures. Yeah. I will say this about laces. My last pair of my last pair of shoes, I had these echoes and my laces broke.

Oh not good.

So I went to the I went to like golfsmith rip shot gofm. Yeah, they're closed.

Out right, reverse shoutout, and so they had echo lass wow.

But they had two sizes, and I was looking I looked at them for literally like ten minutes. I'm looking at these two boxes of laces.

I'm like, I don't know, and I eventually settle the well, the other ones must be for women's. So I got I put these laces and I put them in and they were like massive laces.

They were so long.

So then I had to like quadruple not them, and they still looked like bugs bunny, Like they were like bugs bunny your laces and they literally would get caught on my spikes.

So you just.

Rebounded to the complete opposite no LASiS, Yeah, you know lass, I went to the opposite direction.

I respect that you guys got anything else? I got nothing else.

I'm out.

What's a format tomorrow?

Stroke play?

Keep it metal?

I think we go back to the roots, right. We could do a little match play, just like a round robin match. Each person plays each person on each hall, love it and then throw in some wolf hammer.

How do you as as it's just that you get it inside the flagstick.

And I think anything inside the flagstick's good. Yeah, I mean unless the super got out there.

And.

Tomorrow might I might do some more telling tomorrow.

I think you know what I have in the garage. I have one of those things that you you just roll and it like picks up the weeds. It would be nice to do that putts and then you just whack it and hopefully it goes in. I think I think we should play stymies, just throw it way back.

Yeah.

I actually Shackleford or poor Ath brought this up for my mail bag one about Stymy's and match play, and I'm convinced I'm in Symy.

Bring it back. If you're playing a head to head match, you should be able to.

Stymy the other person be sick.

Yeah, I love it. Oh, could you imagine? I think the joy the gd of Stymy something.

Maybe what they should do for the President's cut totally, anything that injects.

More drama or more you know, like more like personal drama, like people going head to head.

I'll tell you who wouldn't be who wouldn't be happy about that? The Superintendent's Association of America.

Yeah, people chipping on greens Man that could get ugly at our municipal facilities.

Might have to call in a special architect. How bad would just like the general public plague staves be? Could you imagine just like just Joe Blow played like a two dollars NASA, just Styby his buddy's on every old He's out of the hole.

Fuck you, Steiby.

Do you think Steynys would cause more physical altercations.

When we played Style was wild?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean just the stuff that happened. I mean, yeah, you're getting in fights with your friends because they're doing that. Stuff'd be crazy, all right, Stymy's area Steymis are in.

Yeah, Winter rules are also though Steys have always been cool with me, It's true, all right, half a good night everybody.

Whatever.

I'm I don't know when I'm gonna post this, but SHOT's dope.

S's dope. Alright, let you guys flitter shoots mmmm