I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a fried egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg Bride Egg.
Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today I have an episode that is dedicated to the fall season of the PGA Tour. So with that in mind, I am joined by two of the people that I know that follow PGA Tour golf most closely. Sean Martin of the PGA Tour he is the lead editorial at the PGA Tour PGA tour dot com. And Joseph Lamania are a very own Friday Golf. Joseph Lamania I had us each prepare five things about the fall that stood out. A lot
of them overlapped. We ended up hitting on all of them, a few of a few shared things obviously big storylines that came out of the fall. But excited to have you guys listen to this conversation. I thought it was super fun, free flowing, and yeah, a lot of it is about youth and the different tiers of the PGA tour. So without that, let's get to our conversation. But before we get there, let's talk about Stripe. Stripe is a
big part of our business. Integral to this time of year, especially with Black Friday, you want to buy things online. Stripe is a great partner to do so. Stripe helps businesses as small as ours. They've been a partner of ours since really the founding, about two years after I started it, so about twenty seventeen is when we started accepting online payment, and Stripe was there helped us out
when it was just me small business. It also helps huge businesses such as Alaska Airlines, Hurts and many other big businesses. So Stripe has advanced billing products. They have the standard checkout products. One of the big things with their checkout suite. One of the reasons people don't end up checking out of your store is because you might not accept their payment. Stripe accepts virtually like every way
you could pay. I mean, they have it all covered and that's one of the things I like the most about it. It makes it really easy for somebody to pay for one of our memberships, for example. So on the billing side, they can handle really complex situations like usage based billing, monthly subscriptions, all that jazz. So if you want to learn more about Stripe, go to stripe dot com. All right, let's get to our conversation with Sean and Joseph Smartin. Uh. Sean Martin, PGA Tour Officionado
of Golf, really just the the living golf encyclopedia. Uh, We're honored to have you join us. Joseph Leamanya, who you often hear on here, is here. Also, we're gonna do just a little takeaways from the fall season. You know, fall is over, We're onto the silly season. Can we call it the silly season?
Father son?
Herew for a while.
And actually the PNC is secondly a PGA Tour champions Events. That's pj's yard.
PJ can't talk on this pod. He's just a producer, too bad.
I can see him. He's very excited.
He is excited.
There's been a lot I've been a part of a lot of PJ related conversations lately.
Because he's revolutionized champions to are coverage.
Yeah, what can we expect what's this vibe going to be in Tucson? Should we be worried? Do you think?
What do you think of his coverage? What was it? Were there any highlights from it?
You know, I definitely saw the buzzball coverage, the Cola Guard coverage, But I appreciate just the sobriety with which he mostly covered the Champions Tour, just the weight he gives to it.
Yeah. I mean, he's a true professional. He's a journalism journalism major from a you know, esteemed college. He brings professionalism to this organization.
And look, if you're fresh out of you know, Syracuse journalism school, you got to put him in front of you know, world Golf Hall of famers.
Uh, all right, let's get into this. There's enough enough about Champions Tour. I feel like this is more a conversation for the show gonna start than this podcast. We're going to talk about the fall. I had everybody prepare five fall takeaways, and we're going to talk just about this season. I'll jump off, I'll start this conversation. I'm gonna ask I pose a question. Is the fall almost golf cick go heaven like with like with a couple tweaks,
maybe some better venues, some better coverage times. Is this like the perfect perfect golf viewing if there was a
little bit more strict relegation, could it? Could it get to the point where, for like people that are so in the golf bucket that this is the quintessential viewing period where you don't care as much about the big names and it's just like pure relegation and players duking it out out on good golf courses like with like, with a few more elite venues and a few better coverage times in stricter relegation, are we like almost to the most compelling part of the PGA Tour calendar.
I thought Dj Paihowski summed it up perfectly in his tweet. It was something like, you know, Amttic McNeely, Luke Clanton duel is pretty good golf watching for November twenty fourth. I think, you know, guy chasing his first win, You had guys trying to keep their card. Luke Clanton obviously seems like an ascendant star. I think it is a confluence of all those different stories, and I definitely think so.
I mean, I think the fall is made for the sickos, definitely You're not going there for star power right in the top fifty mostly or taking all those events off. You're going there for really granular storylines that truly the Sikos appreciate.
I think similarly, Sean, the way the PGA Tours changed their model with signature events and non signature events. You just don't see as frequently the lesser known player competing against a player that's already kind of made. And you're getting a little bit more of that in the fall. You don't have some of the top superstars, right, it's not Scottie Scheffler versus Luke Clanton. But yeah, to your point, I mean Ludviig was playing this past weekend. You could
have had Ludwig versus Luke Clanton. Yeah, Andy, I think it is kind of a I don't know about heaven, but getting close to heaven for golf siccos it's a pretty compelling product.
But yeah, not for the casual golf fan.
That's that's the thing. I don't think it's all the way there. But yesterday I'm watching I'm watching Caleb Williams dice up the vikings on one screen, and I was almost more engrossed in the golf that was happening. You know, you had four guys coming down the stretch. Yesterday's was kind of telling with you know, you had you had two guys that have had really great years, you know,
huge improvement years in Nico Etravaria and Mav McNeely. And then I think like Clanton Clan was like the story of the summer that didn't get off the ground, didn't get nearly the shine because of Nick Dunlap and also because of Scott what Scottie Scheffler and Saner Schoffley did
last year. I think that like that would have been almost every other year would have been like story one, B or C of the summer, But because of everything that happened last year kind of got pushed down and the fall was a little bit of a reminder this especially this last event. He didn't play much all the fall until this last event, but this last event was a reminder, Oh yeah, we forgot about how good this guy's summer was, and here he is. So what's your first thing, Sean?
And I think my big one is Luke Clayton.
This is one of mine too. I figured we'd have a lot of overlap here.
Yeah, I mean I prepared five, It could be three, could be seven things. We'll see how it shakes out, but I think Luke Clayton's number one. Obviously, I'd watched his results from AFAR on Friday. I took the time to take my son out to watch Luke Clant and Ludwig Obert and Matt McCarty thought that was a great feature group to have and came away just totally impressed with Luke Clinton. I think I've tweeted a couple of times like where he'd rank in all the different status
rankings if he had enough rounds to qualify. You have to have fifty rounds. He's at thirty now, but I mean it's pretty astounding. He'd be second schros gained off the tee, third in shros gained approach, eleventh in driving distance and fifth in driving accuracy, and first in greens
and regulation. And I kind of compared it to like Morikawa, but longer of like this guy comes out in the summer, some of the courses are softer, it's so hot out and so humid, and just flag shots and racks up gaudy approach numbers, and that's what Luke's been doing and The variety of shots too, was really interesting. He talked about how on his first whole Friday, he hits like this nine iron and it's like five feet off the ground. I mean not literally, I think I looked at the numbers.
I think it was closer to like sixty, but still it was this low flight in nine on rom from I think like one hundred yards and Ludwig turned round and was like, that's sick. And he has the this awesome stinger driver that I tweeted about after watching him too, that he hits quite a lot. He actually plays a driver with a little more spin than you would expect so that he can hit that stinger and keep it
from falling out of the air. But it allowed him to hit this like low ground cut access the right side of the fairway on this kind of split fairway par five that guys never are able to really go after because it's there's ob on the right. And I just think he has shots. He's a shot maker, which is really impressive for a guy his age. I think too. There were a couple of spots where Ludwig really pushed
it with the driver. Luke laid Back hit wedges really close and made birdies and I think, just yeah, that shot making was really impressive and the stats seem to back it up. Even if you know, maybe they were on some easier golf courses, I still think the ball striking is really really impressive.
Can I give you a different comp for a player out of the gates that he reminds me of? And I think the finishes stack up just like stats wise and finishes John.
Rohm, Yeah, I mean rom came out right away. He was fished second person. Man.
Yeah, it finished third at the quickened loans. I think like one of the things is like if you looked at his stats in that short period of time, they popped similarly off the tee and approached the green like where he it was like, oh my god, Like this guy might be the best te de green player on tour right now, you know.
I mean TBC deer Run is known for his wide fairways, but I mean he's driving it at least statistically as far as Wyndam Clark and as straight as Chez Revie.
You guys are gonna make fun of me. I mean another player that never he reminds me of a lot andy is Cam Young and the way that Cam Young came out through that hold on, hold on, hold on.
Come on, we couldnt compare anybody to Cam Young.
Whoa whoa, whoa, whoa who Let let me explain. Cam Young when he came out in the fall, was shredding off of the tea and it was hitting approach, not as well as Clinton, but he was a good ball striker and we saw that train so far in his career two major championships. What's clearly held him back is the short game in putting, which Luke Clanton is much
better than. So I'm not saying he's charting to be like Cam Young, he's charting to be better than Cam Young, but it's similar in that some of these weak fields through the fall, Cam Young did something similar off the tee. Has the speed and accuracy combination that translates to major championship golf versus somebody like Tom Kim who also put up really strong finishes in the fall, but was doing it more with the short game in putting. And he
still had a good career, including in major championships. But the upside with Luke Clanton I think resembles some of the flashes we've seen from Cam Young, but with much better short game. Is that a fair comparison. He's still gonna get on me for that.
One thing I liked about Luke for RSM was I think he was towards the bottom of the field. He was negative shows gain approach and he had still second in green's regulation, so he was missing it well. He maybe wasn't flagging short irons like he should have, but he's still hitting greens, and I think that's important. I think being anywhere on the green is better than being off the green almost, you know, without exception, and so I think that shows good course management and kind of
good ball control of controlling your missus. So I thought that was a promising site. I don't know, I you know, I'd be curious. We have thirty rounds under our belt. We have eight events from Luke, four top tens, and those eight events two runners up in a fifth and a tenth. And then I think the big thing though too he made the cut at the US Open, so you can talk about how, yeah, he played the John Deere,
he played the rocket mortgage RSM. These are all birdie fest but he finished forty first at Pinehurst, which I mean that was a place that you really couldn't fake. It didn't seem that was a place that obviously Flumming's Scotti Scheffler, he tied Scotty. I'm not saying he's as good as Scotty, but finishing T forty one in the same spot as Scotty's a pretty good showing there.
Sean on that I was doing a little I was looking through a lot of his scores getting ready for this pod. Luke clann opened with a seventy six at Pinehurst, major debut, right, first major championship round ever. Second two rounds. He shot sixty nine on the second day, which the low round was sixty six. Dki was the only player who shot that, so Luke was very close to the round of the day. And then on Saturday he shot
sixty nine again the low round was sixty six. Like he's showing flashes of playing top of the field in strong field. It's not like he finished T forty one with four mediocre rounds. Like it was a little volatile, which I think you'd expect from a golfer who's just finding their footing.
First first professional, first professional round.
Yeah, true, true, true, Right for a guy unlike Cam Young who's you know a city guy. This is a guy from smalltown Florida who you know, that's a big stage for him. That so that was obviously maybe getting his feet under him in round one and then got comfortable and did what he did.
I think you just look at the landscape of what's going on, Dunlap, Clanton, Thorpyards, that's been really good out of the gates Ludvig last year, and I just it's you know, you see what was coming and to be I think one of the things is like these guys are more ready than ever to compete. I'm sorry to wonder, like how many of the top one hundred players are in college right now?
So you could have six guys who have PGA Tour membership in twenty twenty five who played college golf in twenty twenty four. With Dunlap Clinton if he gets through his twenty points, which maybe we can address that in a little bit, I stepped in maybe some hot water, among.
It did seems like stepped in a step ton of land mine. You didn't expect there.
Did not expect that. Dunlap, Clinton, Thorpe, Jornson, Carl Phillips, who uses PG Tour U status to get off the corn ferry right away. The PJ Tour U number one for twenty twenty five, which right now it's David Ford at North Carolina and then Gordon Sargent will be making his much awaited PG Tour debut as a member in twenty twenty five after ncla's I.
Mean, it's it's fascinating. It's it's like a fascinating moment in the sport because then you start to look at the Walker Cup and there's like a lot of young younger kids that are in consideration, like high school kids that might be even better than this crop of college kids. I mean, it's the sport is a fascinating like because like you look at like Blades Brown and Miles Rusher Russell and these kids that aren't even in college yet that are, you know, potentially making the Walker Cup team.
That's something that doesn't happen very often obviously, like the famous ones Brian Harmon who made the team while he was still in high school. But I don't know, it's an interesting period in the sport with like the game is kind of being decoded at the at the at earlier and earlier in players' careers.
I think to that, Andy, if you're a twenty eight year old PGA Tour player and you're hovering maybe around like seventieth to one hundred and twentieth, you're sort of battling for your status. If you don't get appreciably better in the next couple of years, you're probably going to find yourself on the outside looking in. With this youth explosion that's right about to bust in.
I think too, you look at the top ten or top twenty in the world, and all those guys are guys who arrived quickly. They mostly were guys we knew about an amateur golf. They got on the PGA Tour right away. There's not a lot of guys who anymore that have like the Jimmy Walker progression where you know, he finds it at thirty five and wins his first major and wins all of his events from like thirty five.
What about Xander?
I mean, Xander got on tour so yeah, right, I think Xander and he won the Western m right already got to the finals of the Western m and he was the California State Amateur or California State Junior champ or no state high school champion. I think Xander because he started at Long Beach State. I think people are like, oh, he must have been overlooked, But really, Long Beach State had this coach, Ryan Ressa, who'd come from UCLA and
he was kind of building an ascendent program. And then you know, went to San Diego State, probably to be closer to his dad because their relationship in his swing coach and so Xander didn't go to Oklahoma State or something like that. But I think he had a very good amateur career. Then he got out on tour right away and he won right away. I mean he was what twenty three. I think when he won Greenbrier and East Lake, You're you're not spending five years on the
corn Ferry Tour anymore. It feels like, and then winning a major, you might have a nice career. You know, a guy like Patton Kauzier has done that. He won in the fall. He's won three times now. But as far as like the top ten twenty players in the world, these are guys I feel like just got out there right away.
I think like one of the other players I had on my list of just I guess, you know, like it was more about like if you look at the winners, it's oftentimes like the big time player or bigger time player that was in the event that just popped down for a week, and one would be Austin Ekrot, and most people would say, oh, Austin Ekro, Like he's not
a big name. He's only twenty five, right, Yeah, Like he's top fifty, he's a top fifty PGA Tour player and he's twenty five, right, and he feels like he's better around the block, which is like he's been on tour for two years. I mean, the youth wave is is pretty remarkable. And I think, like Sean, like what you said, when you just scroll through the top you know, top fifty in the world, it's like all these guys
you knew of. Like Sahez is a great example. He was number one ranked amateur in the world, number one college player in college golf, and then Covid hit it took him a little bit longer. And I think that was like if it was a PGA Tour or you era, he would have been number one, and PGA Tour a you probably you know, It's like I H I do think like and one of my questions I have just and this is a little bit off topic, it's like,
how does PGA tour you evolve? Because I think we're getting to the point where it's like pretty clear that maybe there should be more spots to get PGA Tour cars.
Yeah, I think that is something to consider. I think two, we're only two years into you know, the number one getting straight to the PGA Tour, and you know, I'll be curious if this continues or if this was like, you know, just perfect timing you had Ludwig and thorpe Jornson come out as your first two guys that went straight to the PGA Tour. Because these things do come
a little bit in waves. I kind of laugh when Eyone's like, oh, the youth movement is here, and I'm like, do you remember twenty nineteen when like Matt Wolf and Colin Morica and Victor Hovlin came straight out, you know, the class of twenty eleven with j T and Xander and Speeth and so I do think, you know, as far as speed dominating the game, and you know, we know that distance is an advantage and guys really pursuing it, I think it helps, you know, young players dominate but
these things do kind of come in waves a little bit, I think, and this could be just one of those kind of generational packages, like the Class of twenty eleven was for Speith and JT and Xander when they kind of came out right away.
And iact you're erasing. What'sn't Alie Schneider chance part of classic.
Te I mean he finished one. He finished in the top ten at the Open Championship at St. Andrews along with Jordan Nieburg. He finished sixth.
I will not stand for Alie Schneider chants on this pod.
He I mean he was. I want to say he won the Mark McCormick medal.
Yes, he's the number one player in the world. Yeah, I think he was. I think he's just I saw something on Instagram. Do you have hip surgery? Double hip surgery?
I think so. He's had a lot of health problem and he had Anthony Pollucci also who you know he finished twenty ninth at the Farmers In Turns Open when he's in high school.
So Anthony Pucci gets.
Clear up my Hogan Award controversy. But we'll get there.
But to your point, Andy, right, he gets putting it in a little bit more concrete terms, like the new
the direction the tour is going. The top finisher from PGA Tour you is behind in terms of priority order, the top twenty finishers from the Corn Ferry Tour in the previous season, and then the top five finishers from Q School might be worth considering where those how many of those slots go to PGA toward you guys, and exactly where they slot in, right, Like, I think you can make a pretty compelling argument that the second player on PGA Tour you will probably outperform the eighteenth player
on the Corn Faery Tour. It's a reasonable thing to monitor, and the tour can watch that right and see how these guys perform over a period of time and see if they need to adjust it.
To me, the biggest thing is the venues that you play. And this is not supposed to be a knock at the Corn Fairy Tour, but it is. It's very hard to get venues if you're not the PGA Tour. I think the PGA it's hard for the PGA Tour to get venues in some markets. It makes it even more difficult for the Corn Fairy Tour to get to get a venue to say hey, we can have you can have our venue for our course, whether it's a member run course for a week every year. That's a hard
tall task. One of the things with college golf, because of alumni bases and influential alumni, they play awesome venues like they play they I would you could make an argument that some of the top college golf programs play the best venues of any golfer in the world. You know, like they you looked at, you run down where they play in a given year, and it's like, Wow, sign
me up for this. So I think one of the things is, like I think looking at at the top college golfers, just with how young the sport's gotten, I think you look at it and you have to say you have to take a step back and say, like, hey, these kids are playing better venues than the corn Ferry Tour, and I think, like the corn Faery Tour venue they have like a little bit of a venue problem because what you see is the courses they play, and then
they come up to the PGA Tour. There they're apples and oranges, right, like, they test different elements of the game. Sure there are some in the middle. I think in that soft part of the PGA Tour schedule. Yeah, you know, Sean, you talked about TPC Deer Run, wide fairways, lots of wedges like those more mimic, but even TPC Dear Run compared to some of these Cornberry Tour events like drastically
more challenging golf course. So I think that's like one of the things to think, I, you know, this isn't going to happen. I think it's just like there's a shortage of professional golf venues and it's a it's a big challenge that the PGA Tour faces, but like these college kids are playing a PGA Tour level golf course calendar leading into it. I think that's another aspect of this.
You also have between nil and PGA Tour. You there's no reason to turn pro early anymore. So these guys are all playing four years and coming out and so they've made some money. They have some money when they turn pro, which also they have endorsement deals, but they're not coming out after two years anymore. We haven't seen that. I can't think of you know a guy who's on like a speed where he turned pro after a year
and a half. I think because the pd tour you care it is so good where you get PD tor status through it, then you have status basically for a year and a half on tour, and that is worth waiting for it, I think, especial when you're alreadyetting paid because of nil.
We're talking about these young players in in the in the sport, and I just like want to reiterate, like what if Akshay had gone to college, he'd be in this conversation too, like just with dunlap and and uh And and Ludwig and thorpe Jornsen, Akh would be a Chase twenty two. He would be effectively like a college junior or senior right now, Like you'd have another like if he had gone to college and done the PGA tour, you thing that means probably thorp Jornsen doesn't doesn't get
a PGA Tour card. Like That's the other aspect of this is like what about the guys that are that don't go to college because they try and go pro or their international players like like Tom Kim would be another one like who would have probably taking up a spot in there. That's the other thing. I think that there are three or four players. Probably if you were doing it purely off of talent and in scoring, I think you probably could make the case of top three
PGA Tour. You get a card in this current system, Joseph, what's your thing that you're watching?
My biggest takeaway was the youth explosion Andy and specifically with Clanton and Dunlap. Another huge note I have is that fields are shrinking. That's well covered that the PGA tours field sizes are getting a little smaller, but golfers have no shortage of opportunities to have full status on the PGA Tour. Like something I was looking at Ctpan, not to pick on somebody, but he had twenty two
starts on the PGA Tour this year. He had a third finish at the Mexico Open, a T two at the John Deere and a T six at the Zozo, one other top twenty five, and he finished one hundred and second on the FedEx Cup Points list. Like understand some of the lesser I'm not gonna call mules so to speak, being upset about the tour getting smaller, but you have every opportunity to have your tour card, and I think looking at examples like ct pan. I don't think one hundred is too few golfers to have status.
I think I think like where I would push back is the no cut small event. I think that's where to me, where it's going doesn't make a lot of sense because that that just is like adis fabric anti competitive. But I will say, like a general question, and I
think this is like a holistic competitive golf question. Do you value someone who plays well and can be that plays well and finishes in the top you know, ten, two or three times a year and is kind of then not around very much more than someone that plays consistently is like constantly a top forty finisher week in
week out. Because I think that's like an interesting dynamic about how the points work, right, where someone who consistently makes cuts and consistent but doesn't have that breakthrough week like for whatever reason, just like doesn't have the Saturday Like what's crazy about like the difference between T thirty two and T eight is it's like I shot sixty eight instead of sixty six or sixty five on Saturday, you know, and it's like, I you know, it's the
margines are so small between between those two. I'm just you know, it's just kind of something holistically I always think about when I when we get to this time of year, because like that makeup of like your your one hundredth player is usually someone who had two good weeks over the course of a twenty five week schedule, or someone who just was like consistently you know, above average for the whole year with no standout weeks. And I don't know, like I kind of like I think
I lent. I think I favor the guy that's just like consistently above average than the person that flashes for two weeks at maybe you know, a A Detroit and and you know Deer Run. Not to continue to slander those two.
Maybe I'm gonna butcher this statistically, but I feel like kind of going off what Joseph said, if you have ample opportunity, you're gonna have a start or two where you're just your strokes gained for the week, you know, deviate high enough on your normal, you're gonna have a high finish. Basically, your ceiling is going to be high for those couple of weeks. And then if you don't ever finish that highly, even your ceiling isn't that high and you're not that good. I think that. I just
feel like there's ample opportunity. Like Joseph said, to have your great week, and if you don't have it in twenty five starts, then you may not be that great.
For me, it's how you do it right, Like if somebody's consistently gaining strokes, especially tee to green, which we know is more predictive of how they're going to play in the future, Like it's a little more tied to how skillful of a player they are. That's a player that would want to keep an eye on, regardless of if it's one spike for the year, two spikes for
the year. I think when you can kind of identify a fraud so to speak, is they have like three really good weeks and strong fields where they're gaining a bunch of strokes putting that propels them, that gives them enough points to have status on the tour next year, and then you see what happens when they get in stronger fields. They are ball striking numbers they'd have to put extremely well to even finish in the top twenty. So I mean, andy to what you're speaking to. The
way that points are given out isn't linear. Right, if you finish with a good finish and a bad finish, you're going to get more points than two average finishes. So I hear you, but I think you need to look at it a little deeper. That it's about how they're doing it, and if they're doing it with the ball striking, especially in strong fields, that's what I'd be paying attention to.
All Right, I'm playing in Cameron Young.
Yeah, I mean that's a good example, really is all right?
I mean I go to my next one, Maverick mcneally. I feel like he was one of the players. Obviously
he's the winner of RSM. He was one of the players when you look at your to your stats, one of the biggest improvers, gained a ton of strokes off the tee comparatively, he was distance was up, and I think when you looked at it, he was one of the players in the fall series where I don't think it's like necessarily performance in twenty twenty four matched up with where he was in the FedEx Cup and the owgr and everything in terms of he was playing a
lot better golf than maybe his finishes showed, and winning this was a big one and I think like he's kind of the example of what we're talking about, maybe potentially potentially a late bloomer. Even though he might have bloomed, he might be the rare example of someone who played some of the best golf of their life at age twenty one and then you know, managed to rEFInd the gear at age twenty What is he twenty eight now
twenty nine? rEFInd the gear at twenty nine. I thought this was you know, Clinton would have been a great story, But to me, this was the second best story on that leaderboard on Sunday, And I was really happy to see him get the win because I do think he is a player that could potentially elevate into that signature player. And I think also like his voice in the leadership aspect of the tour has been pretty refreshing.
I think he shows a couple of things. One, I think he shows how unpredictable golf can be. You know, you see the resume at Stanford, Do you think he should have come out right away? And then I do give him credit for just I think, really reinventing himself a little bit when he was playing so all at Stanford when he first came out. I mean, he was kind of like Joseph said earlier. He was doing it with the putter and the ball striking was yeah, and the putter was covering up for a lot of mistakes.
And then he got injured, he added distance. I think in response to getting injured, he got stronger to avoid the injury. He changed his swing, became a better driver, and even he said in his winner's press where he said, you know, I've had periods going back to my amateur days where I putted really well and him my irons
really well. Then I got the yips, the full swing gips when I turned pro, first got on tour, and I think he's been able to really just keep improving, which I think is harder said than done, and he's done it, and now he's turned himself into that player like Joseph said, that relies more on the ball striking than the putting and is a more sustainable player than he was before.
I read the article Cameron Morphitt wrote about about his UH on PGA tour dot com. You know of websites that you're part of, Sean where he I thought it was a great like Scott Hamilton, great PGA Tour coach, UH coaches a lot of top players. I love the idea of how he works with players, where like show me a video when you were playing your best golf
and let's go let's work to that point. And like that idea of like, you know, everybody's trying to reinvent, Like I'd love some players on tour to do this, like could Jordan Speth do this, Like show me a video ho when you were playing your best and go back to that. Like that, to me is super powerful, and I thought, like a really interesting way to teach, Like here, show me what your best was, and let's work back to that.
It could be instruction any The other thing I was going to throw in is that Michael Kim had put this out this morning that he talked to Matt McNeil and he just found a new driver that he liked. And sometimes you see that where whether it's technique or equipment, make a little change and the results get a lot better. So I'm with you on the instruction kind of matching up with where they felt the best. I think some of it can also just be equipment and sometimes guys
sponsorship deals holding them back. I'm not sure that that was the case with Matt McNeely. But finding a new driver and then getting better performance is not that rare of a phenomenon.
Yeah, he became a free agentist year. He talked about to his old Caddy before his brother Scout got in the bag sent a set of irons to him that kind of held encouraged the swing changes he was making of swinging more left and not getting his under it. But you know, looking at a status of the season, he was twenty third and off the tee tenth and around the green twenty ninth and putting, and then the one kind of weakness was one hundred and eighteenth in
approach to green, So three solid portions of his game. Obviously, you'd probably like to see the approach play be better for a kind of sustainable success. But I mean, if you're driving it well and putting it well, you can, I think, find ways to get it done.
He seems like he's gearing up to be one of Joseph's favorite wedge Fest assassins.
Well, the other thing, I mean, he was one hundred and eighty eighth and strokes gained off the t last year. I mean we're talking about a horrible you know, horrible I think there were like one hundred and ninety ish guys each year in the stats. So I mean, we're talking about one of the worst drivers on tour last year to one of the best this year. And I think he talked about he was getting way under it, which caused you to flip that a hit hooks, which is not a recipe for good driving.
I was going to say, you're right, Andy that the lack of strong approach play, especially in good fields this year, and not a lot of major championship success, Like if you're putting your boots in the ground that you think, hey, this is going to be somebody that breaks out next year, I would love to see it. I might take the other side of that a little bit. It shows some signs of like not the ball striking in elite fields to have this major leap to be like a top twenty five player in the world.
I think the reality though about the PGA Tour schedule is you can break out and just break out on golf courses that hit your game. I think that is like one of the things I think that's becoming more and more abundantly clear with the tour is that there are players that play well everywhere, and I think statistics are helping tell us this story a little bit more. And then there are players that play well at certain types of golf courses and there's room for both of them.
And I think it, you know, if you think about it in terms of like another sport. I know, Sean's a big baseball guy, but it's like, you know, you have your your starting pitchers, who are you know, now throwing five innings, six innings or whatever it may be on a good day. Those are those are your guys that have nasty stuff, have all the pitches, and then you get into the bullpen and you have like who is the pitcher? Was he the Dodgers pitcher who threw like eighteen straight change ups?
No, it was a guy in the Yankees who he's going to Dodger to get his name now. He threw like it was like sixteen in a row.
Yeah, it's like he's just a change up specialist. Like I was like, wait, isn't that just wouldn't that just be like a fastball? Then he just gonna throw the change up?
Yeah. Time it was befuddling because I'm like, how do you not time that up? At some point you've seen like ten in a row, can't you just yeah, just wait, man, just wait.
So so to me, like if you think about golfers in the way of like a baseball pitcher, you have room for all these guys just because again going back to like the earlier conversation, like golf has a venue issue, and I think it's because of how much how much speed and distance that technology is enabled to be in
the game. Is that like you have this like everybody hits it far and the there are only so many venues that can provide that well rounded test that we that we crave, and it's just it's just hard to there's you know, there might be fifteen venues in the world that provide a test of golf that we where we see like wow, like this really makes them think and have to hit shots that are different, Like there just aren't many of them. So I think that's one
of the challenges in the sport. Sean, what's what's another one of yours?
I think we were talking about the young guys. I think when I was really looking at the fall and some of the results, it actually was a good fall for the old guys. You had a general patent exactly. I mean, I do want to get to Kevin you at some point, I kind of like his d We'll get all right, we'll get there. But when you look at the guys who moved into the top one twenty five in the Fall, you've got David Lifsky went from one to sixty five to ninety seven. He was thirty six,
compos was thirty six, because Iris thirty eight. McCarty is twenty six. I think we can talk about him too. But you know Berger was thirty one. He moved into the top one twenty five, Grayson sig was twenty nine, Hendrick Norlanders thirty seven, Alex Smalley's twenty eight, same Ryders thirty four. And you know, Lucas Glover played well in the Fall. And I think that we made that point about the elite guys. They come out right away and they identified themselves right away as elite talents, and I
think that's the case. But then there's something in that kind of middle tier where I think the experience puts you over the edge. I have this theory and I
haven't looked at it really but too deeply. But you know, the guys who are like one oh one to two hundred in the FedEx Cup, and you know, maybe the top seventy five guys in the corn Ferry kind of looking at the guys that you know used to play in those corn Ferry Tour finals, those guys, I feel like are pretty similar strokes gained wise, and I think where they go the next season, whether they earn their tour card or keep it or they get demoted. I think it really comes down to a few well timed
shots in the season. Like one year, you make that six footer on eighteen to finish solo second instead of a three way tie for second, and that's enough points to get your card, or you know, you missed that putt, or you know you burdy the last three on Sunday to finish fourth, And I think that all those guys are kind of just separated by a couple of well timed shots. And I feel like in the Fall where I think you that's an opportunity for young guys in
KFT grads to really pop because they're playing consistently. We didn't actually see it a ton There was no real you know, thorpe Jornson played very well. He missed a bunch of the Fall because he sprained his knee in Utah, and obviously McCarty came out and won. But really the fall I feel like was a time for let's say the veteran players, and I think that when you get to the kind of that middle tier of the tour and the Cornferry Tour, I think experience matters, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I mean you look at a guy like Henrik Norlander. Yeah, like he's just been in this position so many times in his career that I think like there is like a gravity to the fall, like where it's like, oh, man, like you see the set number of events that you have, and you know, like you can fall pretty far, Like you can go from I don't know, probably eighty fifth to out in that stretch of time. I don't think
that's unreal. It's like I have to play well, like and I think there's like an even if I have to play well one week, and when you don't play well the first week, it becomes heavier and it just continues. And somebody who's played a lot of golf probably knows
how to compartmentalize a little bit more. It could even be a huge advantage if you have a life like kids in a family versus being single and this being the only thing you know that I think that could be an advantage to this, where like you leave the golf course and there are other things that take up your mind other than what's going on over this eight eight start stretch.
Well, I think we in the media too. We gush over the Luke Claytons and Michael thorpe Gornson's and they are elite talents or they seem headed that way, but when you get down to it, there's still a lot of guys who maybe they've been around for a while and they're not the you know, sexiest storylines. They're not the young up and comer, but they just know how to golf their ball.
Well. Also, like I mean, Lucas Glover was Luke Clanton, you know, twenty five years ago or whatever. I mean, he was a stud. He was a stud at Clemson.
And they may not know, they may not do what Joseph said and like dominate in elite events, but you get him into kind of your standard run of the middle PGA Tour event fall event, and they can get it done there.
I was just going to say, like one of the best examples of that, I feel like is Matt Kocher, who obviously is great, great golfer, Like, we'll probably go down as one of the most underrated players to play on the PGA Tour in the twenty first century. You look at his results this year. It was bad the
first half of the year, especially in strong fields. Then once he pieces it together a little bit, like he's pretty consistently gaining strokes in some of these weaker fields, the Windom, which will be remembered infamously for him finishing the next day right T twelve, T thirteen at Silverado, T fourteen at Shriners, Like you get a golfer like that who's crafty and knows these golf courses, who's probably just frankly better than some of these up and comers
that haven't cut their teeth yet, like they're gonna show it in the non signature events.
You know what kind of reminds me of. It reminds me of when like certified NBA players are out of the rotation and they send them down to the g League and it's like this guy scored forty two and Jenni said, it's like wait a second, yea everages like six points a game in the NBA, Like, you know, it's like.
Bill Brow Phil winning on the Champions Tour run when he goes out there, Like it's it's a very similar dynamic. These fields are quite quite different in field strength.
Yeah, it's I think that's a's a it's a good point. And I think like one of the things is like we have like almost like a growing is it it could it be fair to call them like middle class golfers because of the youth invasion. Is like one of the things that we have is like we have a bigger middle class, Like like if you're not like really great at age thirty, you just like go into this bucket.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of what I was, I think describing with the guys who are just separated by a well time shot here and there, and that kind of determines if they're PGA Tour players or the Cornferry Tour players the next season. I think they're I think there's separation among those top ten and top twenty players in the world. I think Joseph kind of touched on it in your pod with Ryan French about you know,
we talked about small margins and they're all are. There are small margin between one and twenty six and thirty and thirty one on the courts very tour, but the margins between you know, one through ten in the world one through twenty versus number one twenty five, I think are pretty big.
I mean, you look at JT. Poston, who's kind of a I don't know if i'd call him a bona fide signature event player, but he's a good PGA Tour player. Played twice this fall one and finished T five. Those courses might suit his game a little bit, but like that's what happens when a player who's well above the average in the field shows up.
Yeah, that was one of my notes. Is just like if you look at some of the winners in this parlor, this ties in well with with Sean. It's like you look at us like McNeely. Austin Heck wrote, JT. Poston, I think, Kevin, you I put it in this bucket.
It's like you know it you take away like Campos, which was a good story, and obviously I think like there's something about Campos and playing in windy conditions that islands present that he becomes one of the better players but you look at those players, like those are all certified PGA Tour players and they've proven you know it over a long period of time or not long, but like you know, Ekro was in the top fifty, Like they just bounced down and they win these events.
The average age of winners in the Fall was thirty point one, So it wasn't like I mean, it was like half the guys were in their twenties and half of their thirties. But it wasn't a munch like Spring Chickens guys fresh out of college, fresh off PJ Tour. You. I actually I put Kevin You in that fast riser bucket though.
I did I have him too. I wanted to talk about Kevin You. I think he's like this again, this is a guy that was top five in PGA Tour U and it's basically just cleared every echelon as he's gone up, it's been super impressive.
Yeah, he came straight out, so he turned prone in twenty twenty one, and that's when corn Ferry Tour was having that like eighteen month season because of COVID. Four straight top twenty five is to start his pro career a T five and then a playoff loss. Then he gets his PG Tour card after one full season on the corn Forry Tour twenty twenty two, keeps his card in twenty twenty three, and wins in twenty twenty four,
and just I mean, the profile is there. He's twelfth and off the t and thirty six and Stroskin approach, but one hundred and fifty fifth in Stroskane around the green, one hundred fifty third in Shroskin putting, and his results are very volatile, and I think it's probably just weeks where he happens to shake them in putting wise, which I think everyone can do, even the worst putters. Then he has good results where he wins, and obviously there's
room for approvement of the short game. But the boss writing skills are there?
A hypothetical question that I've had, and I think, like when you look at Kevin you is a good kind of like that. It'd be nice to look at all players,
But how much of it an event? How much of it a improvement can we expect around the green and putting simply by not having it be your first time around all the golf courses on the PGA Tour Like that to me, thinking about it from a playing perspective, has to be a massive, massive advantage when you're talking about not only your second time around second like and when I say that, like your second season playing the same courses for the most part, like the tour, Like
if once you've played these golf courses five or six weeks of your life, you know in your fifth or sixth season you have such an advantage on the greens, like I think about like when I go go back to golf court, like one of the golf courses I grew up caddying at. I caddied there so many times, like I don't even have to read putts, Like I go onto those greens, I feel at home. I make everything when you when you play the tour, you're in year out, you gain familiarity, you understand where to miss,
you're around. The green numbers should theoretically go up, and on the green numbers should go up, they should improve with experience. Like to me, those are two spots where you would make market improvement just by not being the one that's seen the golf course the least on tour.
A couple of things there when I went up to watch Ludwig and Luke Clayton and Matt McCarty. On Friday, I was talking to Luke. Clayton's coach is Jeff Leishman. He's been around for a long time as a top one hundred coach. He was Burger's coach when he came up, and no relation, no relation to Mark no is.
He a big guy, fairly big.
He's Canadian though, but he made the telecats. If you could see him talking to Luke while he's warming up after his round on Sunday for a potential playoff, He's in there talking to him. But you know, I just made a mention about, you know, strokes gain around the green losing strokes there, and he said, you know, the short game shots just that are demanded out here are much different than in college, and so it's just a
matter of learning. Though, So I do think the experience of being on tour more you just learn those different shots. And then also I think the way strokes gain around the green is calculated. Some of it I think could come down to target selection, because around the green is basically it takes your lie and your distance from your pin.
So if you're short sighted, it's an impossible chip shot in real life, but the computers looking at it and it's like, well, you're only twenty feet from the pan and you're in the rough and you just hit it to thirty feet, it's gonna severely dock you. And so if you're short siding yourself a bunch, which I don't know if Kevin is I didn't break down his shot trails, which maybe I should have. But if you're short siding
yourself a bunch, you're stroskating around the green. You're get hammered in that because you're not chipping it close from close proximity to the hole, And so that also could be a target selection issue as well.
I think one of the things I noticed with the PGA Tour, and this is just a general observation, everybody's like, oh they have these courses, it's such you know, they're they're so soft and easy. The pins, the whole locations on tour are insane. They are insane. They are like just like shoved into corners, so inaccessible. Like if like regular compared to like a regular golf setup like at your club or course, if you put PGA Tour pins out,
your course would play four shots harder. I'm convinced like they are, like you just like a regular golfer cannot get at the pins like good shots are twenty feet away. Like I think, like that's something that like the general fan, casual onlooker does not understand about a PGA Tour setup is like the pins are insane.
I think andy with that, Like, I think you'll hear a lot of older PGA Tour players say that that is different than twenty years ago. Oh yeah, it has gotten appreciably harder. And not to turn this into like a distance issue, but when you talk about scores going down over the past twenty twenty five years, like that's something that I think goes overlooked a little bit is
that they've also made the pins. If they've cranked the greens up and put the pins in extremely difficult locations like oftentimes right at the top of a slope or where it's like really hard to read the putts. You hear golfers talk about this all the time. The pins have pretty much been pushed to the max.
I think the other thing too, we forget how much players still can improve after they get on tour. I did a podcast with Brian Harmon earlier this year, and you know, you'd think, you know, Brian Harmon was all everything phenom when he came out, he two Walker Cubs, US Junior Champion, number on amateur in the world, and he talked about how he sought out aftergot on the PGA tour. He sought out Jim Furick for advice on chipping.
Heud having trouble hitting like the I think the high soft shot out of Bermuda, and he loved the way Furich did it. And he looked at the stats and think Furich had like the best proximity from the rough around the green or something. And so Brian Harmon, this guy who you'd think would know a ton like it's still seeking out Jim Furick for advice on how to chip.
And so for a guy like Kevin, you you know, there's room for improvement probably and picking the brains of tour players and how to hit these shots, or picking the brains of coaches. And also goes back to that thing of like the wiley veterans who separated themselves in the fall, like guys are still improving even when they get on to it. They don't arrive on tour as finished products.
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learn more there. All right, let's get back to Joseph and Sean. Joseph, what's that? What do you what else do you have on your list?
Other big takeaway I have that hasn't been covered yet as a player who I don't know where you guys would categorize him, if he's in the middle class, if he's an up and comer, not up incomer. But I'm pretty excited about the return of Daniel Berger. And I mean he's not an upcomer. Was he thirty one?
But Daniel Berger.
He was on.
Yeah, he was on quite a trajectory before getting hurt. And I mean, I don't know if people, if you started watching golf in like twenty twenty one or twenty twenty, he'd probably be on the short list of golfers that you don't appreciate enough. I was looking at some of his results today. In twenty twenty, he went through a nine event stretch where he had seven top tens in a win, and one of those events was a T thirteen at the PGA Championship. Burger's got the pedigree. He's
done well in majors. He finished in two top tens in the same year in twenty twenty one in major championships, just dealt with an injury, and now he's climbing his way back. Loved his quote this past weekend that if he plays at a tenth of his potential He's in a completely different class than a lot of these golfers he's playing against. I like the swagger, and he's right.
He speaks to this difference in levels that we've been alluding to throughout this pop like a top if a bona fide signature event level player shows up like they get the job done. He almost won the RSM this past weekend. I think Daniel Berger is somebody. Now that he's healthy, you really got to consider him as being a potential, like top thirty player into twenty twenty five.
My only concern there is the back injury seemed really severe, and so you wonder how banged up he is, how much that's going to limit him maybe in practice and prep and reps, and then how long he can stay healthy for.
I don't know.
But did you see him talk about it this week?
I didn't.
He said he played twenty seven holes on Tuesday trying to get ready because he hadn't seen this golf course before, and that his back feels one hundred percent. So we'll see what happens with that. But that's a legitimate concern, but it seems to be in a pretty good spot.
He's also working with Mark Blackburn.
Now, oh, number one coach in the in the world. Yeah, that's uh. I think uh. I think like with Berger too, when you have something like that and you see, I think he probably looks at his career, he looks at what Brooks Kopka's done, he looks at what Justin thomas has done, he looks at what Jordan Spieth's done, and I think he probably thinks he's as good, if not better than a lot of those guys in his own mind.
Whether or not he is there's another question. But like I think like he's the quintessential tour pro, like elite tour pro where they are irrationally confident and believe have like extraordinary self belief. That is like to me, like when people ask me what are tour pros like, it is like they have more confidence than you can ever imagine. Like most golfers walk around thinking about how much they suck. They are the ones that like never think they've hit
a bad shot in their lives. And that quote is like very telling of how Daniel Berger reviews his golf game. I love it because it tells you that, like he is probably someone who believes that his career has been a disappointment to date. And I think with all the wealth in the sport, all of the money, it gets very hard to be dedicated and driven at age thirty,
you know, thirty one. And I think he's one of the people that you could look at and say, you know what, this guy might still want to be great.
He also hasn't seen that money, right, Yeah, he wasn't playing when the purses got huge, and he didn't go to live so he's not somebody that's had a taste of that.
And he a bigger boat.
The back was so bad he couldn't go on the boat. What he said, the water of the rocking was hurt his back.
One of the things I think about with all the time is a PGA tour player once told me who he had he had good success is that he told me, Like if you look at when a bona fide PGA tour player gets relegated down to corn Ferry, they immediately are back like it is like just like no doubt about it. They go down to corn Ferry and they
are just immediately back up. And I think this is like there what we've talked about the themes of that, this are like of this conversation are like when there's a top echelon player playing in in the in the Fall or the Deer Runs or the Rocket Mortgages, like it's always like Tony for now, I feel like Tony Fenw is always the top top ranked player and Rocket Mortgage and three'm and it's like, sure enough, there he is the top of leaderboard. You know, John Brahm when
he played the Mexico Open. Sure enough, there he is right right in the mix, you know, no matter how well he's playing, Like it is like an interesting dichotomy that's starting to come out. I think this is just with the tour. You know, it used to be that, you know, in the nineties. This probably still would have been the same true in the nineties, but everybody played everything because they had to, you know, like the wealth wasn't at the level where you could get reduced down
to a eighteen eighteen weeks year schedule. My last thing for the Fall, I thought Black Desert was super fun. It was like I haven't gotten like I really liked I would like to see the best players in the world play Black Desert. To be completely honest, I thought it was a super unique test. It was really fun
golf course. And then in terms of like a television product so stunning visually, the lava, the mountains, the you know, the very lush ride crass, and then also the time of day that it's on, like it provides a really nice TV window. I know it gets hot, really hot there. But could we get Black Desert into like May? Could we get it in the May zone, like when sports are kind of dying down and then you get this like kind of primetime golf.
I mean it's in a desert, right, Yeah, I applied to you for winter. I mean maybe can you touch on the end of the West Coast wing.
I think Saint Georgian in May you could. I'm just trying to get it to where the daylight matches up and you get the like primetime golf. Okay, well, I mean you know that's.
The only the problem, Mandy, Like, I'm with you. I think it's by far the best venue of the fall. If you took it out of the fall, like the fall would take a big hit. I kind of enjoy looking forward to a good venue in the fall, like Black Desert. If we just start taking all the good ones like Memorial Park and deciding that they need to
go where the top players might play them. I think you end up with a fall that's pretty lackluster, which we mostly have at this point, with the exception of Black Desert.
Do we have to get rid of the one good one?
I just I'm not going to stand for the Sea Island slander. No.
I think it's like I think it's probably one of my twelve to fifteen favorite PGA tour venues.
Agree this is not a take I thought I was going to get on this podcast. I mean, I'm glad I did. I think at the point you made about too like a TV product, Like it's just something that pops and you turn it on and you're like, what is this? This is so different?
But I like to have it on at night because if we so April, the Highs and Saint George are seventy average high is seventy six.
That sounds perfect.
May the average high is eighty six. So to me, if you move it into that area, like it's a great TV like, this is like a especially if you get your best players playing there, I think this is a great This could be a great event, And honestly, like there aren't many opportunities for there to be great events on tour where you have like a very interesting and different test, Like I think, like what I loved about it was there was enough space where you could
you could go out there and ripdriver in distance is a huge advantage, but there was the trouble made it so that you had like you had this great mix of like short accurate players and long players, and it was like it was one of the more compelling tests. Like what we need in golf is more lava is what I'm convinced, just wekay shipping in shipping in lava everywhere.
Should we take the regular tour to Hawaiili take it from PGA Tour.
Champions No, Andy your point about it, They're being enough with but it crushing wide misses Like that's a great example of a course that if Bryson to Shamba were still on the PGA Tour, like he'd I think a lot of people would assume that he'd do great there and he wouldn't necessarily because the way Bryson hits it, any mishit shot at his distance, it's like a full shot and a half penalty. You were not playing those shots.
They were almost all unplayable once they got off the fairway, so I would love to see better players tackle that course.
I think we should just like when we talk about venues, and I think like everybody just thinks, like, oh, this guy, he just likes like Riviera. What what we want out of our tour venues is we want diversity, and we want to have skill courses that bring out different skill sets,
because otherwise it just becomes too one dimensional. Like the venues to a certain extent, like outside the top players are going to the very best are going to play well everywhere, right, but the venues to a certain extent dictate who the top fifty players in the world are. And I think like that, like you need to have venues like Black Desert where the best players go play because it offers a completely different dynamic, like it would
be you know, I'm not a car racing person. I do not watch this, but if every venue, every car racing track was the same exact dimensions, it would be a lot it would not be interesting.
Well, I think NASCAR they are.
Well, that's probably why NASCAR is not as popular as F one.
I think the Tory Andy would argue that they already have a diverse set of courses, right, that completely different from Riviera, which is completely different from Bayhill, which is completely different.
From your travelers Travelers. Yeah, what was the travelers test? Not that anything? Nothing. How many people will.
Show up to a golf course that doesn't provide a test, and I think is what the travelers tests?
Well, you know, lots of people show up when there's twenty million or something.
Great wedg players.
All right, who's got stuff left?
Like that? I want to talk about the Maxes. I feel like we're up for an exciting year for Max's in general. Home is trying to work his way back and you know, get a swing back and then I have the yips already on it. But Max Grazerman and Max McGreevy both had great falls and it's already a struggle. So McGreevy was number two on the Cornfarry Tour points list in twenty twenty four. He got a sponsor exemption into Utah and finished eleventh. But the bigger thing was he won the Dunlop.
Phoenix over you were going to go there, Ox Shay.
And Hideki and then he actually just won the Tailor Made Invitational at Pebble, which is kind of a hit and giggle, but you know it's they've got tour players there, it's a it's a nice offseason event, and he seems poised for a big twenty twenty five. He's a guy who he's twenty nine and had to bounce back and forth. So I think maybe he could be an exception to all the things we've talked about here, but he's a guy who I think looking forward to. And then obviously
Max Grazerman. You know, he showed up in the fall and continued doing what he did at the end of the year. He finished second at Zozo and fourth at in Mexico, and so I think four top four finishes in his last six starts. He was second on tour in stros game putting this season, so it'd be interesting to see if that was a hot potter situation or
if that is a sustainable thing. But Max Grazman was your top Cornferry Tour graduate for the twenty twenty four season, and so I think just a lot of a lot of action around maxes for twenty twenty five.
Also, you're going to take take the most.
The Grazer well, he did, but he also finished runner up in the backpack events. Before the playoffs, so he earned his way in.
I agree with Great, I agree with Smart and Grazer min take he's been one of the most impressive players I think. Like I think one of the things that with the new dynamics of the tour is any player that plays their way from the corn fairy status up to the signature that is there's no faking it because you don't get a lot of opportunities. You are maximizing your opportunities, and that's that's a super impressive feat.
But I also think that the twenty twenty six those changes that go into effect that year, I think will help have more interplay with the corn fairy guys getting into the signatures. I think the problem this year you saw with you know, KFT grads getting boxed out of early season of vans is it also boxes you out of the A on the Swing five and the next
ten and those opportunities getting the signatures. Now with the small field sizes, if those guys are getting into Sony and they're getting into more West Coast events, it gives them more chances to get into the signatures and kind of get that immediate boost up. I think early in the season guys were kind of boxed out of those. So I think two, it'll help the Cornferry Tour players if they're playing well start of the year, gett into the signatures and maybe make an impact right away.
And the other part of that, too, Sean, that has gone I feel like way under the radar is that they've changed the points system starting in twenty twenty six to where the difference in points between signature events and non signature is going to be narrow or which is only going to help the KFT guys more.
Yeah, because I got a on next ten. You know, it's the next ten guys who aren't yet exempt in the FedEx Cup. I mean, if you get off to a great start to the year, you just sit in that for all season and get into the signatures. So a great star can get you into the signatures if you missed out like top fifty FedEx Cup of the previous year.
All right, Joseph, anything else in your notes.
My notebook is is pretty much empty, Shanna, anything else? I know you wanted to take a few shots at Matt McCarty.
I just I watched him play with Ludewig and Luke and like it was nine holes. He seemed to struggle in the wind. I saw him holding his elbow at one point, might have been injured, but you know, it was Ludwig and Luke. I think shot sixty four and sixty five and he shot seventy five, and he just seemed to he just seemed to really to have to struggle on the wing. He shot seventy five, and you know, the interesting to see that's a guy who obviously won
three times in the Cornferry Tour. He wanted black Desert, which kind of a desert corpse. He's from Scottsdale. Seemed pretty pristine conditioned, and I think, you know, the next step for him is going to be just learning to play in different conditions. When I tweeted about Ludwig and Luke and Tron accused me of, you know, slandering Matt McCarty by not mentioning him with them, someone replied like, oh, diad he hit his stock high draw all day, and
so I don't know who that was. I don't know who it was, but they seemed to they seem to know his game. But this is a guy too who I think, a guy who won once in his college career at Santa Clara and four years later is like a top fifty player in the world, a PGA Tour winner. So kind of like I said before about guys continue to get better, just like some guys might learn new short game shots. Like it's a guy who could develop some shots. He has a two year exemption to work
on getting better, which is huge. But I think it seems like, you know, he cleaned up in birdie fests and and maybe the next step is making a more well rounded game for the wind and for different conditions.
All right, Matt McCarty minute at the end here, Yeah, I mean, like again, there there are some domes like maybe maybe he's the special the PGA West specialist.
And I mean you can make a good career winning in domes's and then you know, the thing that separates, you know, the top ten, top twenty is like we've talked about, they can win in any conditions on any golf course. And but I mean Matt McCarty with his current games put together, you know, great year, he's won four times. So yeah, I think just the more shots you have, the more opportunities you have, Right, But doesn't you know.
What my favorite favorite thing about Matt McCarty is no. Do you know where he lives full time? Not Scottsdale, Chicago.
Interesting, he did give my son a ball, so I get you know, I fully respect that. I wish him nothing but the best. It just seemed like, you know, he's made a quick ride.
I hope your first assignment in twenty twenty five is a big Matt McCarty profile.
Kevin Price actually is on that, so we're fine. But this feels like this feels like the Xander. This feels like the Xander twenty eighteen thing. It's going to come back to bite me.
Overrated. Xander is overrated you and poor Eth. It was a great moment on this pod. You know, I was firmly entrenched in Xander stock, and you know it's really paid off long term.
I did hear. One of the more interesting things is really the fate of the three time winners on the Corn for a Tour, the guys that get that promotion.
Wes Bryan, Wes Bryan, Who is the guy that got it? Who's the all time Corn Fairy Tour player? Got it? Flann again? Nick flanagain?
Right, Nick flanagain? You know, Jason Gore got it? He Jason Gord did the same thing that then Matt did. He won three times and he won quickly on tour.
So it's just they have a bad thing to win three times.
I don't think it is. I don't know what you would think that winning three times, you know, I don't know you would think the result would different for the guys who won three times on the corn Ferry Tour. But it's not.
Maybe it shouldn't be the metric that we promote and promote players. Then maybe maybe maybe, like I always laugh, it's like, you know, like you could just finish like second every event corn Ferry Tour, have your car locked up by I.
Think we said four. Why don't you go the other way? I think sho have a two win promotion once you won twice, Yes, we've locked your card up, let's go.
I think once you once you lock your card up, you should be eligible to play in any tour. You should be eligible to play in any tour event and be at the bottom of the like to me, they should be ahead of one twenty six. You know, once you've locked up your tour corn Ferry Tour card or your PGA Tour card, to let go once you've once you're on the Americas and locked up your PG or your corn Fery Tour card, you should be able to play up like you should. We should be constantly putting
people up once they've earned their spot. But you know that's that's not my decision.
So you're a big global currency guy, you just want like everyone to use the Euro or.
I just want free flow. I want free flow. It doesn't make sense that we're you know, the PGA Tour operates to all these tours and we don't have a point system.
So I actually I do. I think you know, because of like we talked about varietying venues I have, I'm less in favor of this universal currency that you speak of with points. Huh.
I might have to kick you off the podcast.
Then I'm curious, why why.
Aren't you in favor of it?
Well, I do think you can create a situation too where you get someone stuck in kind of a netherland. I mean, I do think like with corn Ferry Tour, if you graduate as soon as you get two wins, then you lock that guy, I guess in order on the points list, in order they graduate. So if you were the first one up, you just keep that number one spot.
Well, you wouldn't get in every week on.
Tour, right, But then you then you are you playing between both tours. You're playing forty events. That's nobody wants to be in.
I don't have to play.
You're not gonna turn it. I mean you're not gonna turn it down. I think you talked to the guys. You mentioned it on the pod with Joseph and Ryan French. One of the worst places to be is kind of that you're stuck in the autonomous zone or whatever between PG Tour and corn Ferry Tour and you're not sure which way to go.
And I think all this would be less of a prop them if the KFT had more resources poured into it, probably, and then they could those golfers who were on the corn Ferry Tour could make a little bit better of a living and not be as desperate to get up onto the PGA Tour. I agree with you, Andy, though, if you've already locked up your PGA Tour card, just put them on the PGA Tour as long as they're not, to Sean's point, getting stuck between where if you're playing
on both tours, you're disadvantaging yourself long term. Like, I don't think that's the solution, but I don't know. If they've already locked up there, they're gonna be one of the top twenty on the KFT. Why not give them some reps on the PGA Tour.
I'm I don't know. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why. Like I also don't get why. Like if I'm like seventy fifth on the corn Ferry Tour and I qualify for the US Open and I finished tenth in the or eleventh of the US Open, why don't get points? What do they get now?
They changed it. I don't know the exact but you get points.
You get points. Good it should be if if I do that and I qualify for a tour event, I should get them. Like what that doesn't make any sense. If I play a tour and I don't get points.
You should never play well in a tour event and that hurts you. Yeah, like that that doesn't make a.
Lot of It makes no sense whatsoever.
At some point, at some point you got to pick that. You know you're on the tour you're on.
I don't know it's the same organization.
Yeah, but I mean, it's not like I mean in Major League Baseball, if you hit four hundred of triple a, like you get called up, but you're hitting four hundred of triple a doesn't help you at all. It gets you called up, but it doesn't put out towards your stats. In Major League that's not But if you get.
Called out, if you get called up for a for an injury, so you get that what that cup of coffee and you hit three homers in a week, that are going to keep you up there.
Yeah, it's the other direction.
Right, I think, Yeah, I'm advocating for the guys, Like it's kind of like the PGA Tour. You that that guy gets status for the year they turned pro in June, and they had status also over the following year. So like if you won twice on the corn Ferry Tour, you would go up to the PGA Tour and you'd also have your status for all of the next year. I think what I that you sometimes positive that I'm against is like this free flow where you're going back
and forth relegated every four weeks. That's chaos.
That's the that's the thousand person tour, that's the thousand person Tour, but.
You've you've added in the season relegation of like chaos and guys don't know where they're going.
And that's great. Well, if you're top player, you know where you're going. Sure, it's the only.
Person if you're a guy that you know. Let's say, let's say some the number two player for the Corn Verry Tour misses like fource rate cuts to start his year. You're just giving up on his down back down to the Corn Forverry Tour. That's I mean, golf doesn't work that way. I don't know.
It's just back down, get hot, stay hot, play your way up, and then eventually you're safe and then you get to set your schedule and then you better keep playing. Well should be just cut throat as hell.
But I don't know, I don't agree with that. I think that's case.
I think if you took out, if you took out the players, if you if you ran this like any other sport, which pretty much minimize player concerns, like they are the smallest bargaining chip at the table, like they if you if you took it, you would go to tour that just like had like relegations, like probably the most compelling thing about golf outside of winning in majors.
I agree, but but you got to give a guy. Okay, I'm all four calling guys up, Like if they excel right around the corner for a tour, let's give them a chance call him up. But the immediate like, at some point if a guy earned his tour card, you gotta give a fair shake. You can't just threaten him with relegation, like four weeks in, like hey, man, Freut's and that's kind of what the reshoff, Like they have the reshuffle where like you move them down the priority rank and you still have a tour card.
I think you're misunderstanding what I want. Everybody gets a fair shake once they earn their spot, but.
You want them down after like five like, hey five, betters Man, that's that's not a fair shake.
Well, you could come up and then you could go back down, and you could play well and you come right back up.
And that's chaos. But then how do you plan where they play the next season?
Well, they that you planning is a privilege of extra of great play.
Mostly with you on this one, Sean, just chaos, absolute chaos.
All right, Sean, do you have anything you're working on or are you just kind of planning out next year?
I'm focused, my folks are. Now is a big We're doing a documentary on Scotti Scheffler's twenty twenty four season. It was pretty good. Wow, So we felt like we should I felt like we should memorialize it. So I'm a filmmaker now, Oh look at you. I mean, with a lot of support from great people.
Do you get a new title?
I don't think so.
You should be a filmmaker filming. What is it now? Is it lead writer? Still, lead, Comma editorial, lead, Comma editorial, lead, Comma editorial, Comma filmmaker.
I guess lead is a yeah. Leads a fairly common title in the biz. So then we have a lot of leads here, great people, and then you have Calma whatever their department is.
I'm the words man, all right, and filmmaker for this pod. We'll at least give you a filmmaker and your title too.
All right.
Thank you Sean for all of your time. Thank you for you know. I appreciate people poking holes and my ideas, calling my bullshit.
I'm glad. I'm glad that you're willing to listen to constructive criticism.
Oh, I welcome it. I like people telling me I am an idiot. That's uh, it's a it's a refreshing thing.
I don't think I called you an idiot. I just had a disagree.
Yeah, that's the world. World spins around, on on on Uh congenial Uh disagreements. Is that the right word?
I use the right works there, not congealed. Congealed disagreement would be the wrong word.
All right, Sean, thank you, Joseph, thank you for your time. That's your that's your fall. Wrap up there and we'll be back after the holidays with a new episode. Thank you to PJ. Clark for editing and producing this podcast. Uh, if you're looking to shop, we've got Black Friday deals going up this week, so check out the Frida egg Pro shop and uh you there are There are deals galore and new merch galore.