I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my.
Ball in a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded Friday Friday Frida egg brid Egg Frida egg bride egg Lie.
I'm about ready to run off of the hup course. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and we are going to talk about the twenty twenty five Players Championship which was won by Rory McElroy on Monday morning. I am joined on this podcast by Gabby Herzigg of The Athletic. She was on site. I was on site until Saturday. It was delightful there, it was really great. And then on the back half I am joined by Kyle Porter
of Normal Sport. So two great guests to kind of talking about the big stories to come out of the Players. Each of them. I asked to pick out three things to talk about, So before we get to Gabby and Kyle, let's talk about our partner club champion. It was really windy on Saturday and Sunday at the Players. It was awesome, awesome viewing and to me when the win picks up. That's where it's most important to have your equipment dialed. And there's no better way to get your equipment dialed
than at Club Champion. This is where you can get tour fit level fitting. If you're just a regular regular person, there's studios and master fitters are the best in the world. You go into a Club Champion, you can basically basically try any type of club with any type of shaft and you and see you know what works best for you.
I am a huge, huge proponent of this. I think like when you see the heavy wind and balls that managed to pierce through it, these are generally players that have you don't know how to hit shots, but also have that club really optimized so that their ball can be kind of heavy through the wind. And we saw, you know, two supreme players with irons battling it out with Rory McElroy and JJ Spahd who's turned into an
elite iron player. They both hit heavy balls. If you want to hit a heavy ball, if you want to get optimized, you want to get your clubs dialed in, go to Club Champion dot com slash Frida egg and use the promo code Frida Egg. You'll get a free driver or iron fitting with a club purchase using the code Frida Egg. That's Club Champion dot Com slash Frida Egg. All right, let's get to Gabby Herzig from The Athletic. All right, we welcome on Gabby Herzig, staff writer from
The Athletic, a New York Times company. You know, very fancy. You know, if I were you, I'd just say I'm a staff writer for the New York Times. But you're the Athletic. Anyways, we are. We saw you on the ground last week at TPC Sawgrass. You stayed through the playoff. I am excited to talk about your experience down there and kind of your takeaways from the week. So I asked you to come up with three things about the players. What's your first thing?
I guess we could start with the champion himself, Rory McElroy. My takeaway about Rory this week is, I know there has been so much chatter about the mental side of things for him, and he really kind of laid it all on the line in his post round interview yesterday talking about, you know, walking from the sixteenth to seventeenth teen and thinking about his ball going into the water. It was very vulnerable Rory. The fact that he would admit those things is you know, you don't hear that
often from a professional athlete of his stature. And but I want to talk about Rory's actual golf, his shot making specifically. You know, one thing that he mentioned there yesterday is this three quarter three quarter nine iron that he hit on the seventeenth hole, and it means three quarterback swing with three quarter speed and I'm about to go hit nine hundred of those on the driving range. Try to figure out how to do it, because clearly
something is working for him. And I just think he demonstrated this ability to have a full toolkit of shots this week on like you know, maybe we've ever seen, especially when he's just not driving the ball well. And that's probably why we got to see it more because
he had to make more shots. You know, I think of the six the six hole yesterday or on I don't even know what day it is right now, but on Sunday he hit in the pine straw and had to hit this like forty yard slice around the tree and he ended up right of the pin, you know, perfect position. It was just one of the coolest shots I've ever seen. So that's my first takeaway as we you know, we talked about Rory so much, but do we talk about his shot making abilities enough. I don't know.
It's an interesting point because I feel like, I feel like if you look at like the Phil Ernie Els Jim Furick era really pre the kind of the era right before Tiger, it became like it was like normal for somebody at age thirty five to be hitting their like peak as a golfer, and that that was like for a myriad of reasons. It was you know, obviously in compared to other sports. Physically you might be past
your prime a little bit at thirty five. But when the game without TrackMan and the technology and the tools that are today, I think the game was a little bit more nuanced, especially when you considered the spinnier golf ball. And you know, like I'm reading this book about about Tiger Woods and it's just Steve Williams, Steve Williams really retelling it. And Steve Williams talks about when Tiger got the solid core golf ball and it was really about control.
You know, there was added distance, but the control was the big piece that it just held in the wind stronger. And I think that's the biggest thing from my perspective of when I was a kid with a wound ball versus now with a solid core ball, was the number of shots that you had to have when you're playing in the wind. And it makes sense why the maturation and the excellence of golf was later when you consider
all the types of shots. And I think what we've seen with Rory over the course of his career is he's gone from like this guy that beat up soft golf courses where he could overpower them and the margins got a little bigger, to now a player that's got arguably more shots as many, if not more shots than everybody else, and he plays the hard courses the best, like us Like. He's been unbelievable in the US Open the last really five years. He's probably been the best
US Open player. Maybe Xander is the best. You know, you can make an argument, but it's it's really an interesting kind of career arc because it does he obviously had their early success, but he is seemingly reaching a new level at age thirty five, when most of his counterparts at thirty five are kind of slowing down.
Yeah, he basically said it all. He said, you know, I feel like I'm a more complete golfer than I ever have been in my career, and to hit that, you know, around this time is pretty remarkable. As you said, he he just it's funny because he hit what I think twenty eight eight fairways, which is like less than half of the fairways this week, and yet down the stretch the things that it's not it's not those creative shots or those escape routes that bring him trouble. It's
the simple things. And you know, you saw the first thing that comes to mind for me is either the seven foot birdie put on fifteen or the chip on sixteen, which he left in a perfect spot on that green and just comes up I think thirteen or fourteen feet short. So it's it's interesting to see like the areas that he finds like to be his strengths and the ones to be his weaknesses. And I think that tells you a lot about who he is as a player and
where his areas of growth need to be. You know, clearly he's got a lot of it under control with this new you know, the new swing changes he made in the off season have seemed to help him tremendously, and now it's just like, can he get that, can he get over that hump of just you know, him against his own brain? Basically?
Yeah, I mean that's what makes God so compelling is that you can feel better than you've ever felt about something, and then the moment of getting into a golf tournament and you can psych yourself out or deep in a golf tournament, you can you can put yourself mentally in a pretzel. And I think that's one of my big takeaways from Rory was just I think this was a super important win in terms of his major arc because I think it eliminates a lot of that doubt. Well,
the players is not a major. It also isn't a signature event. You know, it is not an event that he's It's it's just a it's a conundrum, right, what is it?
Is it not technically a signature event.
I just don't think it's more than that, right yeah, right, right, right, Like this feels more significant than the win at Pebble Beach, and so it's like one of those things where like
it wasn't easy. I don't think it. I think it was one that held probably looks back and you make it couple of decisions different ways, and you could talk yourself into him winning by three or four, but at the same time getting it done and winning one in those high leverage moments, especially after what happened at Pinehurst last year and the the consecutive year after year, the LACC and the Saint Andrews, like three years in a row, these high leverage moments, just being on the wrong side
of you know, the breaks and maybe maybe some misplays here or there. And I think that that's like a big thing for his mental psyche going into the Masters.
Yeah, on the you know, on the eighteenth green on Sunday, you know, him being able to lip in that par putt, I just thought to myself, like the margins are just so slim here, Like if that ball goes one more rotation to the right, like this is a totally different story and we might be talking about him in a completely different way right now on this podcast. And that's what makes this game so baffling, because like inches can
determine narratives and it's honestly unfair. Like he's been playing some incredible golf this season, and I was like asked in interviews before the Monday finish happened, like, how would this, you know, determine like his year, how we think about him for the rest of the major season. And I was like, it doesn't if you really think about it, it doesn't matter as much as we put emphasis on because of those slim margins and those little like bits of luck that you can just get or not get.
So I thought I did think that watching you know, the three whole playoff on Monday morning, especially his first t shot on sixteen, just literally stepping it up and bombing it on down the left side of the fairway. He looked so much more confident than he obviously was.
He told us that later, but he kind of he had that energy of like I'm coming out here to win a golf tournament, kind of like it goes in and out, and then you know, you see how he three putts on the seventeenth green, You're like, it's a little bit fleeting for him, that feeling and that energy, and I think he pulled it off this time, obviously, but you exactly how you said, it's so mental, it's all, you know, those six inches between the years.
I think, having watched a lot of the high leverage moments. I think the most nerve wracking place maybe outside of like short puts coming down the stretch to win is the first tee mm hmm. And if you think back to like Pinehurst to Lacc to the Open, for the most part, he he has just absolutely bludgeoned t shots off the first hole like it seemed like the first hole energy. I think that's like that's where you get
the most nerves. You get into the round and you're kind of set and you're and then like where your nerves are going to come back is when you're trying to win something. That's where your hands just like feel weird, like when you're standing over a putt.
Like like spaghetti, like the whole thing. It's just it's the worst feeling ever.
But the the first te he's been so good. It's it's it's interesting. I I did think like one of the underrated things. You were probably there on the ground you might not have seen this. I thought he kind of alphad JJ spawn right out of the gate. Did you see him like kind of like after they after Gary Young did the intro, he kind of walked up to him and gave him this like, hey, like he was very polite, but it was polite, I felt in a very game smith ship way, like it was something that was like.
I'm about to destroy your life, but it's so great you're here. Thanks for doing this, man.
It was. It was totally like a thing that I feel like if you were at a at a club and the best player in the club was playing someone they knew they were better than, and they were in a playoff or something, that's exactly what the best player in the club would do. It would walk up to him and like congratulate them on being there before they
just go. It was like an interesting because then he hits this three hundred and forty yard drive down the middle, and I thought that that next t shot was so compelling as to like, kim Spawn, who probably has slept like complete shit two days in a row, can he muster something off that tee And the answer.
Was no, no, no, of course not he And he said he knew that he had the honor on the tee, which was super important. So like Rory was sleeping knowing that he was hitting that first tee shot, and you know, as soon as he takes like his little dog headcover off the driver, like everyone's like ooh, just steps up there and does that. And I think that he was able to lean on that shot a lot throughout the
rest of those three holes. Like even the moment that really stood out to me was after JJ flies it in the water on seventeen and he's like asking, like, where did that just go? And Rory's like, dude, it's in the water and walks straight behind him with his butter in hand. And before JJ's even able to discern like where the ball.
Went, Shade's blockie, you know, asking Rory of where the ball went.
It had some notes of that. I would say, JJ was can we just talk about like the club selection on seventeen for a second, because you.
Can talk about anything you want to talk about. This is a podcast. You're the gust.
Thanks Andy, I appreciate you clarifying that he I watched back the audio, which I hadn't heard obviously because I was there. I was standing there out of earshot, and it sounded like his caddie, you know, hands it in the eight iron and said, you know, I don't remember the word he used, but like a little chippy eight or something like that. And then he's like encouraging JJ one more time, and he goes just a full stock,
smooth swing. I'm like, and then JJ goes stock. I thought you I thought you said had to take some off of it. Like he literally said that, So there was and he didn't back away or anything. He just went into the shot after that. So like that's the type of experience, a level difference that like really can make or break a situation like this, Like if if that's Rory's not gonna you know, first of all, I don't know if he's having conversations with Harry like that.
But a player like JJ, you have to back off you're unsure about that and start start fresh. You don't just walk into the shot not knowing what your guy's telling you to do.
It's interesting because that was the thing that stuck out to me about the shot he chose to hit, was like that was like a full bore or there was a full like Apex eight iron versus Rory hit that really soft three quarter speed knuckler. And I think like the knucklers. The advantage of the knucklers, like you just like kind of know the general area it's going to land in, whether it gets really hit by wind or
minimally hit by wind, like the margin. You know, if you think about the green there, it's whatever thirty paces long or deep roughly, like if you hit the chipper into the middle of the green, it would take like a really weird wind event to have to miss the green. Right. I think like it's generally like a pretty good strategy there is to not hit something full because then if it's down when the wind can't like the one thing that's hard there is downwind can get knocked down if
you don't get enough backspin on it. But that chipper into the wind was like totally the shot because like spawns, just it didn't get hit by it didn't get touched by the wind. Yeah, and that's a weird thing with those grand stands.
Right.
I think Rory's flew like probably five yards further than he expected. I couldn't believe when it landed out deep into the green it got.
I know, I know, that's that's exactly what he said he was practicing, like on the range when he turned around backwards to hit shots towards the third green. I thought that was brilliant. You know, he'd been doing that all week going to the opposite side of the rain. He just has like this like sixth sense or more awareness of how to hit the ball in the wind. And I feel like JJ was kind of just unprepared for that moment.
Yeah, that's I think that's what it was, is like golf golf asks all these questions. That's I think why we probably love golf tournaments the most is like over the course of seventy two holes, like you are going to get every aspect of your game is going to get showcased. And I think that was one thing that JJ didn't hadn't faced yet, was that was all week.
It was down on seventeen, and it's it's amazing that like, okay, just the matter of circumstance, the weather delay that like okay, we're going to ask you one more question, and it's the end of the wind and he just he that's where Rory had the shot and JJ didn't.
Yeah, It's like it's like you're you're finishing a test and like you realize there's like one more page left and it's a question that you have no idea how to answer.
I think I've finally out own the dreams. Oh I haven't where you have anxiety about tests. I think, like, it hasn't happened to me in a while, and I'm like, I think it's finally done.
Yeah, you can tell this is a source of stress for me.
Yeah. Oh, it's the worst when you wake up and you're like, oh my.
God, horrible, horrible. I have it all the time. Actually, recently it's been like missing Google Google calendar invites. That's been horrible for me.
See, I don't have to dream about that because I missed my fair share without dreaming, you know. So it's kind of kind of an issue. What's your next thing?
Okay, my next thing is, Oh, I spent a long time, uh thinking, talking about and watching a tree this week, and I had a forty five minute conversation with you. I wrote an article about the tree. Love writing about inanimate objects.
I liked it. I liked the lead to it. It really drew me in.
Thank you.
You know.
Actually I have to give a shout out to Sean Zach for that one, because when I was coming back in to you know, sit down and write the story, I think he came out to me and just asks like, oh, what are you doing today? And I was like the tree, and he goes, oh, like what did it tell you? Like, did you get did you get any good insight? I was like, I know, I'm at least going to be now.
So that was it was a really fun story. I will say, like I love doing the kind of like you know, the thing that everyone's talking about story and trying to add a new element, a new light to it. And speaking to Davis about it was so cool because he's just ridiculously passionate about this, and you know, he was sending me videos and pictures from the reconstruction process, and the fact that they lifted that five hundred thousand pound tree one hundred yards is like still baffling to me.
They I forget what the system is called. That they put it on these like logs or like you know, these like inflatable tubes and they roll it slowly and they take the tube from the end and put it in the front and like it keeps going very like slowly and surely. And I'm pretty sure like that mode of transportation was like invented in the Roman Empire to like move things to build like you know whatever monuments
that are still standing today. And I was just like having these images of my brain of like golf course construction and like the little nuances that go into it. And it was a very cool process.
I will say that tree mattered very it was. It was stunt. I I was watching Scotty and Rory. You might have been out there too, and I think I saw Scotty hit like the worst shot I've ever seen him hit.
Oh really, I didn't see this.
He hit like almost like a pull hook with a three wood. I mean it was like just so bad and like he just generally had a bad attitude this week, and it was just like an epitome of it. But like you just saw guys like they were very uncomfortable
and like extreme. Like you know, I'm not like a huge proponent of move of like trees in general and as as features that deter players, but I do think like every once in a while a unique twists are turn and I think that's the thing that it provides is like it just doesn't the they're afraid to hit their normal stock shot. I think like the stock shot can just kind of work there, but it's like if if you hit a little high on the face, maybe
it maybe it hits it. So now it's got these guys hitting these weird shots and they just they just struggled. I mean, like Rory that that fairway was like a big problem forer rorri.
That week, Yeah, a hundred percent. I thought it was really funny that Toasty pulls out three Wood. I'm like, just had read or watched this video that you guys did with him where he's like, I'll hit driver anywhere even if the fairway is ten golf balls wide, and I'm like, so the tree's working. This is awesome, But yeah,
it was. It was so cool. There were a few like oohs and ahs when like guys kind of caught what a little spitty and high on the face, and like Keith Mitchell looked like very upset with one of those shots, and Ludwig was like switching between driver and three wood, and I I asked jos Goverren, like what the deal is there, and he said, like, it very much depends on the wind direction, if it's into or against and or helping, And like there's just a lot
of decision making because of a feature that, like you said, isn't really isn't actually in play, It just really looks like it is. So that's the Pete die effect, and I didn't know this before talking to to Davis. Was was just he wanted to deceive you and have this like trickery or distraction in some of these design elements. Like Davis was talking about like a section of bunkers at Whistling Straits that he would he asked He asked Pete about one day and he was like, why did
you put those bunkers there? Like no one's gonna no one's gonna go over there. And He's like, Oh, They're just meant to distract you. And I thought that was so cool.
It is it's it has a huge impact. This is a Justin Ray tweet that I saw at the end of the week the final your Cole League Yes, final tally on the sixth hole this week, Field hit fifty eight point two percent of fairways, the fewest there since twenty eleven, and sixty six birdies for the week were twenty six viewer than last year. So I these guys are creatures of habit and anything you do that just like kind of changes. I think it like fits really well.
Like one of the things I take away with from Sawgrass always is variety. And you saw it like I think one of the things that didn't get talked about a ton was the added length on the par five holes. How that might have played a little bit into Rory's hands, true, because he's a player that second t for example, got moved back and a little left, and that that he's one of the few players that can really turn over
right driver driver right to left. So adding distance on those par fives, the thicker rough probably helped Rory McElroy a little bit too. Like there are little things that play into in the hands, but overall, the the thing I always take away with with Sawgrass is like, how like if you think about like T shot after T shot,
rarely do they show you like the same look. And I think these guys, these guys get so good if you show them like a hole with like a similar width fair way and a similar bunk row alignment over and over again, like they get comfortable. And the thing with saw Grass is that it's like it goes, you know, one goes left to right, Two goes right to left, four goes kind of kind of left to right. You kind of want to hit a fade there, you know, Five you go left to right, and then six now
has this like you gotta go low. Like it's like a whole new thing, like everything moves different directions. And then you get to six and it's like go low.
And then it keeps jogging around with the different different shapes and and and ask and like they're within those different shapes there are super wide fairways and then they're super narrow fairways, which like I always get up to four t and I'm like, god, after like one and two, this looks so narrow because like one and two are pretty generous, and then four it's like, oh, it's just this thin little ribbon and there's all this trouble on the right, and I'm gonna bail left, but bailing left
might be worse than hitting it right. You know. It just it's a it. It's Brendan used this term in a video recently, like visually and apologetic ear muffs for the kids, visually visual fuckery. Yeah, and there's just a lot of that out there. And six with the tree back is similar. I know, like some people are like very against it.
Yeah, I don't get that personally, Like I I think it's fun. Well, guys are playing for twenty five million dollars. Throw a tree in there, okay, just like make them get around it. It's I think it's adds like a really cool element of like again like testing guys and having them use every tool in their toolbox, just like you said. And I honestly, this is my first time at TPC Sawgrass, first time covering the players, and I
don't think it translates as well on TV. Like I didn't realize that about TPC zaw Grass before really walking the property and like seeing that some of these site lines and like some of the visuals that you get off the tee approaching greens, you know, even like the quirky little elements of like a palm tree and a bunker, or like the little moguls on the fourteenth that they put back in. Like I think we don't really we don't really see this stuff that often on the PGA
tour and it's definitely refreshing to me. And I just don't think I fully appreciated that about the property before I actually got to see it with my own eyes.
Yeah. The other thing I head b back in so long, I just forgot how great of a spectator of course it is.
I was that was gonna be my like bonus takeaway.
I it's like I I last time I was there almost ten years ago now, my brother in law was stationed. He was in the Navy in Jacksonville, and we went just as spectators on Saturday. I was there covering the term in all week. On Saturday, I went as a fan nice and like we just like sat on seventeen basically all day. He's not a big golf fan. He's
not like a golf fan. It's just you know, and and we just sat there and I was like, this is like delightful, like for a our, like a someone who's deeply engrossed in the game, I can enjoy this and for somebody that's not, it's like a phenomenal entry point because you could see the shots. You can but like all around almost every hole is perfect places to run.
It's amazing. I actually so my dad was there this week. He was on a buddy's trip with like his six college friends, and he was, oh, it's amazing. They went, they went fishing, they played a round golf. It's aspiration will it is really truly. I like put this photo of them on my Instagram story at one point and like wrote, like sawgrass dads with like a trademark symbol, and they were obsessed with it. They like made me send it to them, and they're like putting it in
a photo album or something. But I was I was able to like walk around with him and his friends for you know, thirty minutes on Thursday and another thirty minutes on Saturday or Sunday and Saturday, and they were just like so giddy about how great of a spectating course it was that they couldn't even like figure out a place to stand and stay for a while because they were like this place looks better, like was this last one even better than that?
You know?
On on Saturday, I sat with them in the second green and there's this nice little hillside and you watch all the players go for it or lay up, and we saw Rory hit like an incredible flop shot from the right rough and then you just stand up and you could see them tee off on the third hole and they're all excited about going out to the twelfth hole because they're apparently great tacos over there.
It was like a whole journey.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, tacos on twelve.
So the dads were overrated. Tacos Taco.
I just I agree, honestly, I went there.
People love him down there, but I feel like if you put them in any any city, it's just be like run into the mill.
Place A thousand percent agree. We went on Tuesday night. I think saw Michael Griller picking up as co order, and I will say, like the place itself has a great vibe, like it is the place to be, but like, yeah, tacos can be better.
Yeah they're okay, They're nothing to write home about. You know, people do of these crazy things like and we I feel like this is a common discussion point with like other majors all the time. It's like, oh awful the spectating experiences, yeah, funny, like and I listen, I I I would say that I'm not a PGA tour apologist, but I would say this is like literally the best
tournament you can go to as a spectator. It's a great time of year, the weather's usually like really good, and it's like the tickets aren't crazy and it's the best place to see like it it is to me the best spectator experience in golf.
PC agree.
Let's have a master's maybe yeah, yes, pretty Yeah.
That's next level. But my dad was saying, like I've been to other terms. My dad, like I've been to the Open with him and at St. Andrew's where you literally can't see any can't see anything and you have to walk like three miles to get to one hole and then like it takes some of your an hour to get back to the clubhouse. But he was he
was having a ball. Like we were just talking about how how much we'd recommend it to other spectators that they're trying to choose, Like what, PJ Torment, can you like get the closest and have the best views, like walk, I went over to the merch shop and like there's a freaking driving range like right there for people to try to hit, like the seventeenth T shot.
There is yes over there.
Yeah, it was crazy.
PJ didn't let me know. I forgot. You can't you can't talk on this podcast. He jammed us, what's your final thing?
Okay, my final thing is that Scotty Shuffler is in a mood and I'm scared. I was out there for a few holes here and there with Scotty and like had a pretty small sample size and he was pissed, like he is definitely in a spot where he's like so frustrated with himself. And it's funny because what he's still.
Finished twentieth or something, yeah.
T fifteen twentieth like somewhere around there. And it's coming out in like several different ways. First, it's just you know, he's he has this like outburst or once every once and every while after a bad shot, and it's like, you know, for a while, we just thought Scotty was like this nice, like wholesome world number one, And he's got some yron and I will tell you that. And then it's also coming out in the media in like some of these interactions that he's had with reporters recently
have been sassy. I would call them snarky. Yeah, he has a sense of humor. He's a sarcastic guy. But like these have been I think one step further than that. I just remember on Friday afternoon, the super group of Rory, Xander and Scotti comes in one after another to the
flash area. I don't know if you were there, Andy, but so we were all there was probably a thirty people standing around the little like fenced off flash area, and like Sander came in and then Scotty was like kind of leaning against the fence and like waiting for him to be done. So he was already having to wait, which is like, oh no, like players five minutes to
do media. But and he walks up to the microphone and he's kind of just like adjusting his belt or whatever, and like looks up and there's about ten to fifteen seconds of silence, like no one wants to ask a question, like, and Scotty just goes so I'll make a statement, and like eventually someone chimed in and asked the first question. But I just thought that was so indicative of like the headspace and like mindset that he's in right now.
It's literally like translating to people being fearful of asking
him a question. So it's an interesting like vibe and dynamic that I'm getting from Scotty right now because he's like obviously this close to going on another tear like he did last year, and it right now it's coming down to putts falling, and that's it's been a spot of you know, a sore spot for him in the past with the putting struggles, and it just it seems to be getting to him, but I think it's getting to him in a way where we're gonna see him
like really break out again soon and it's gonna be like, oh, I remember, you know.
He had a different ramp up this year, which is interesting. But I will say that the new putters are band aids mm hmm. You get a new putter, you like it, you have some success with it, if you're not, if you're not technique wise really sound.
Are you saying that about the about the mallet switch.
From last year? Yeah, Like it's you know, like he's always I think he's gonna be a streak putter for them, you know, like, and I think he's really struggles when there's added elements to the putting, whether it's wind or the greens are slow, like we saw him like, I don't know if I've ever seen him putt as bad as he put it at last year's Open with the slower greens. It seems like, you know, but then you know,
the wind. I think the wind was bothering him this week, particularly on Saturday, when I feel like, really, I don't know if you saw this, but he said something to the lines of like I get the worst bounces of anyone in golf, No way.
Yeah it was that caught on like a hot mic or something.
Yeah, so I'm the telecasts Scotty. And it's like, I think I can think of like a lot of really good bounces that you've gotten and fled to, like winning major championships or like the one that you know, you hit a terrible duck hook into the into the trees on eighteen and yeah, just like drop down into into the rough and you could make a par from there, like you know, like you think about like his career I did.
I think.
I think he's a creature of habit. He had his habit disturbed. The other thing that I I think having a young kid is hard, and I think the early days of having a young kid are a lot easier than like once. It's not like oh this is new. This is like your life changes your amount of time.
Like I just think, like I personally deal with this still is like there's a push and pull of like where I want to be with my career and what I want to do with my career, but also what I want to do with my family, and that is going to be like a push and pull, And I wonder, like is that like these are all this is just all speculative from my part, but like you just wonder about, like what could have changed in the in the in the timeframe from he wins his ninth win last year.
You know, he wins the hero it was dominant. He has the hand injury, and he's just come back like in a different headspace.
I can see that for sure.
Or is it simply like he hasn't won a golf tournament in four months, which is the longest he's gone without winning a golf tournament in a really long time.
Yeah, I think it's I feel like it could be easily a combination of both. Like some it's just like something's bubbling with Scottie, Like it feels like it's slowly slowly getting like just has this energy to it with him and like I don't know you at least also with the with I get the worst bounces of any golfer, Like at least he's kind of like funny with these things,
Like I heard one. I heard one where he's coming off I think the second green, and he had missed the hole by like two feet, like it was it was a bad putt. He's walking to the next scene, he goes, I love a lipout, just a lipout, and it's like at least you're able to have a little bit of humor with these things, Like I like that from Scotty. I think we're gonna see him like really come out hot again soon, like you said, like it
might just be coming down too. He doesn't necessarily have that like super super ultra strong foundation with the putter like some other players do where they can just rely on it, you know, in times where they need it like a like a spee for example, and it's gonna
come back. But like I just wanted to throw it out there, like how interesting like the Scotti Scheffler energy is right now, because usually he's kind of just like the guy shoots sixty eight and comes in, he's like all happy, could go lucky about like just you know, I commit to my shots and what I like delivering all the lines that number one in the player in the world has to deliver, and like that was not what he was doing last week.
I feel like this is like he's evolved though, because like early on, like three years ago, it was like God, this guy's boring. Yes, yes, and it was like he doesn't give give you anything, and then it evault like it seemed like he got more comfortable and he would crack jokes.
Yes, it was like the wholesome kind of like quirky dude.
Yeah, but like was funny. Yes, and and like now it's like gone to like where he's like he's he's still pretty funny, but he also kind of like doesn't have the patience for for questions that he doesn't like.
Yeah, he's like, I mean, I just like don't want to get in his way, Like it's a little scary.
Well that's the thing when you I don't know. It was a really weird week for the media just in general. Yeah, between Marikawa and and Scottie, it was. It was just a strange, strange week there, even.
Rory like getting asked about the phone stealing episode. It was it was a little awkward here and there with with some of these guys just like seeming like they were questioning motives and like thinking that like the people
were out to get them sort of vibe. And I just like I know where that's coming from, but like I feel I feel like they should these players should understand like if they you know, if they give the time, if they give those like more nuanced answers, like it can only bode well for them, and like that's the thing that I think, like the agents side of the discussion like has to realize that it's only going to get worse if they and I don't know if you
read shame Gian's peace and Brody's Yeah, yeah, Brody's really touched on that, Like this is this is uh, you know, this is like the beat the giving time to media. It's not you're not owing us anything. You're owing like the people that are following you and are fans of you on the PGA tour, you know, an insight and a different look into what might be going on or what you're thinking. That always that doesn't always come out when you like post an Instagram reel about your practice
round or like a highlight reel on TV. You know, you have to take the time to actually express that, and that's how you win people over, Like that's how you get fans to follow you and buy in. So I just feel like there's a lot in it for them too, like they owe it to themselves in a way.
Yeah, I I completely agree, it's like the I just I think sometimes like it's hard, you know. I think, like I podcast for a living, so like it's very much in my interest to just like tell people what I'm thinking, right, But like at the same time, like if I feel like these players, like if they just got up there and were earnest and honest, like and to you exactly what they think about subjects for the most part and in topics and how they feel, it
would just it would let people in. I think that's like the biggest issue that so many people, like I do you see that Isaiah Selinda quotes.
Yeah, I was there. I was there talking to him with.
Sean about like all these guys are like cookie cutter, you know, white bread like boring vanilla tour pros and I'm gonna be different, right. But like, the the reason that people feel that way is that like whether it's been coached out of them or whatever. Like I think like the general belief on tour is that if you just keep your mouth shut and you play decent golf, the sponsors are gonna just you know, back up the brinks trucks and they're just gonna pour money on you.
It's like the Ricky Fowler Gary Woodland kind of like playbook Matt Kocher playbook until he didn't tip a guy, Like just smile and you're gonna get paid a lot of money. But like the reality is like in today's society, people just want a little bit more. They want like this is like I think what influencers do is they let people in. And that's what makes these YouTubers so attractive, is like people feel like they forge personal bonds with
them because they openly talk about when they suck. Like, you know, I saw the Bob does Sports guy did this spoof on Rory's comments about YouTube golf. It was so good, you know, I I saw it because Rory showed me it and he was laughing about about what how he spoofed him. Like, you know, you have no idea what it's like to hit the first putt knowing it's not going to go in and an eight man scramble. You know, you have no idea.
What a animal.
Yeah, it's no idea what it's like to see your friend eight beers deep path to can or eight donuts deep can't get to the top of his swing.
What's his name, Joey cold Cuts?
No the fat for us? Yeah, it's like I mean, like but like they they humanize, they like they get on the same level as their audience, talking about like struggles, and it's like tour players like will not for the most part show you that vulnerability.
Whether it's healthy or not. We as a society have become accustomed to having parasocial relationships with these figures online, whether it be athletes or influencers or your favorite artist or whatever it might be. And I actually do you kind of alluded to this. I do think in a way like modern day coaching has taught a lot of these players to like keep the blinders on, like keep your head down, like don't let any outside factors distract you.
Like we've heard Scottie Scheffler talk about before that he doesn't have any sports like apps on his phone because he doesn't want to ever see any sort of notification
around him or his game. I think some players do a better job it than others, and we applaud them for being so focused and committed and whatever, but at the same time it hinders in a way, like that fan experience, Like we we want them to be vulnerable, but we also want them to perform their best, and like is there a sacrifice there one way or the other.
I feel like Rory took an interesting approach this week and just like putting it all out there, you know, like admitting that you know, he has work to do in some of these areas, and he's made certain mistakes in the past in his career. Like I think he mentioned like being able to you know, have like a negative memory arise to the surface and being able to replace it with a more positive one, and that that's
still a work in progress for him. And that's the kind of stuff that like makes people want to learn a little bit more, watch a little bit more, see if it changes. I had a really fascinating and honestly like difficult conversation or you know, to hear with Max
Homa after Friday's round. You know, stood there after he finished and missed the cut by six or seven shots, and he was like nearly in tears and very graciously took like five six minutes to talk to us about you know, he just doesn't know like where he's going right now, and he basically feels like he's going in circles and it's like he's had all this change, but do you like keep changing things if you're so stuck in this position or do you just keep going and
feels like he's on the right path, but the results are nowhere to be found. Like he called it a toxic relationship with the game, which it was like all this stuff is striking and is exactly the type of thing that, like you look at as a sports fan, You're like, Wow, I really respect that guy for actually coming out and saying that.
I think everybody has somewhat of a toxic relationship with the game of golf.
Yeah. Yeah, he said that he's the toxic one.
I mean, it's that's the thing, is like, what these guys And this is why I tell I tell people all the time, is like like I'll play golf with someone and they'll be like, I suck. I'm a fifteen handicap, and I'll be like, good news. I walk around a golf course telling myself I suck all day. And you know the funny thing is, I know, like you know, most of the players in the top ten in the world say the exact same thing to themselves all day around a golf course, like it is a toxic gamem hm.
And the more of these guys like talk about their struggles with it. It is so relatable. Like who hasn't been in the situation of Max Homa, where like you aren't putting so much work into the game and the game is just beating you down over and over again because you're like almost getting worse the more you work at it. Like that is so relatable, so relatable.
I had someone text me after that article about like how they feel that way in their own job. Yeah, and it's like it's it's such a relatable concept. And golf is one of those one of the few sports that we can actually go out and play ourselves and it's not it's not like we're watching like, you know, linebackers zacking each other and like it's not quite as revealing hearing them like talking about their struggle. So we're
never going to be in that situation. But you know, we have our own games and everyone has their own ceiling and like goals and work that they put in, and when you're not seeing those results, it's something that like you have to realize the best players in the world might be having the exact same frustrations that you are, just on a different level.
Yeah, it's uh, it'll be interesting to see how it goes. It doesn't seem like it's getting better, you know, with between the media. I think it's like kind of an overarching issue in all of sports. You see it with like Lebron and Steven A. Smith bubbling up, you see. I think it's it has a lot to do with like the state of online discourse in the in the
country right now. I don't think it's the healthiest it's ever been, and I think it bleeds across like everybody feels like they're trying to be trying to villain a villain by each other, right Like they're trying to make everybody seem like the bad, bad person when it's you know, a lot of cases it's just you know, asking questions to get more context hundred percent.
And I mean the media landscape right now too, Like it doesn't help that a lot of these platforms like have to turn out an insane amount of work and headlines to stay aflow, and everything's an ad based revenue system.
We're very lucky over at the Athletic to be able to kind of take our time with things and only put out stuff that we actually think is one hundred percent you know, worthy of a story and a byline, but it's it's like a it's a very strange time and media right now, Like there, you know, shops are closing left and right, and you know, some of the some of the best voices like may might not have a ton of options for where to put their work.
Like it's it's definitely like a it's a shrinking beast in a way, and it's tough to see, like some the dominating you know, narratives are kind of shaped around like the platforms that aren't like representative of the core of journalism. I would say, so as as someone who's like in it in the space, like it is tough to see, like when people jump to those conclusions and assumptions and it's not representative of like the entirety or the best. So we'll see. I mean, I hope it
doesn't get much worse. I'd like to see like maybe a few players like step up and maybe give the opposite perspective to what Colin did and say, you know how much maybe they appreciate the light that some of us shed on the game and are able to translate from them to the fans. We'll see. I mean, it's it's a very interesting predicament that we're in right now.
Yeah, it's I I think that it's a you know, they'll all be on their best behavior at Augusta National.
Yes, that's the only thing we know.
It'll be an interesting story to follow. All right. Everybody can read your work at the Athletic. They can also follow you on x and Instagram.
Yes, indeed, thank you, Andy, appreciate you.
For coming on. We'll talk to you.
We'll see you in a couple of weeks at Augusta. All right, big thanks to Gabby for joining us. Now let's kick it over to Kyle Porter from Normal Sport for his three things from the Players Championship.
All right, this is very exciting. I have Kyle Porter of Normal Sport, a great newsletter place to read about golf if you don't already subscribe at normalsport dot com. That's right, correct, normalsport dot com.
Yeah, it used to be a Normal Sport. We paid I think eight hundred bucks to get rid of one vow, which is just insane. But yeah, normal sport dot com.
Those domain squatters, man, they I always win.
Yeah, I mean I wish I could go back to college and tell myself just buy you know, which domain you could be a billionaire.
It's uh, you know, we got the Frida Egg we were forever fridagg dot c. Yeah, we got the Frida egg dot com. My astute attorney slash married and cousin had remember like put a reminder on when the domain expired, got it an auction for nine dollars. It was wow, incredible score.
I I can't tell you how many times I've gone to Frida egg dot com.
It's the analytics company.
It's this.
It looks like it was built in like nineteen ninety two or something.
I've been waiting, waiting for for years for that thing to fold. I cannot believe that they're still paying for the website.
He doesn't look like they can afford it.
No, I don't think it's a company anymore. It's I would like that website, but I have yet to been able to get it. So you know that's the that's your website minute starting a business. Yeah, websites are hard to come by. The website addresses what are players? This is a sensational Monday Finish Monday playoff between Rory McElroy and the guy everybody thought would be on the other side of the playoff JJ spawn Kyle, I asked you
to prepare three things to talk about. What's what's one thing you want to talk about about this year's players?
Well, do you want to go reverse order or like order of importance the way that I seem.
Let's go, let's go one to three, let's cook on Three'll hook people here with the most important thing.
This is business minute number two. The uh, I think my number one is is And we could probably do a whole podcast just on this, but it's I think I think Rory winning it made me real, especially the way that he won. I know it's been talked about a ton of like he didn't he hit forty eight percent of fairways, didn't drive it that well?
Uh, I think he's raised. I think his floor is.
Higher than it's ever been. I think I think most people who follow this closely would say, yeah, that's that's probably true. Like his floor is the highest it's ever been because his game's more complete than it's ever been. And I think the question that I walk away from from this Player Championship with is can you raise your floor without lowering your ceiling? Because I think that is the that's the holy grail. In golf is to raise your floor and also sort of in parallel, raise your ceiling.
And it's really really hard to do because by definition and raising your floor, you're making better decisions, better choices, not hitting iver everywhere, like like I mean, he did all those things, and how do you raise your ceilings simultaneously so that maybe you have a chance to win some major championships.
I think, yeah, this is this is what golf's all about. I think we heard Tiger Woods when he was going through his heyday, he harped on consistency. He was always seeking everything he was doing was to be more consistent, and that's kind of what you're talking about. How do you raise your floor, how do you become more consistent? How do you evolve as a golfer? I think that's the the other things that we're seeing this, you know,
maturation of of Rory McElroy. And I think like one of the things with golf is there's so few players that play at a high level long enough where you can really see them evolve, and we are seeing Rory McElroy really evolve. I think over the last five years it's been been the big, big kind of transformation where he's to become extraordinarily more consistent and just more of a well rounded player.
And not just that, but I think it's one thing to have those shot. I mean, we saw him hit some really cool shots in the playoff. The shot into seventeen. I thought the shot, honestly into eighteen was really cool. It was like this kind of flighty draw into eight. It didn't matter at that point that the event was over, but it was a cool shot that he said he's been working on that he hasn't always been able to hit with seven eight. I think he hit it with
an eight iron. Somebody pointed this out to me on Twitter, Andy, and I thought it or X or whatever it's called, and I thought it was interesting. I said, he's almost having this sort of Steph Lebron sort of second prime of his career, which I thought was a really cool because you know, I don't know that I think you watched twenty four year old Rory and it's like, I don't know if anybody's ever driven the ball like that,
including him at age thirty five. But man, you see these NBA guys kind of accumulate these little tricks and these little nuances to their these little wrinkles to their game where it's like, I don't know if Steph is like physically as gifted at age thirty seven as he was at twenty six, but man, he's just so much smarter and just better all around than he used to be. And I think I think that's a great comp for what Rory is doing right now.
Yeah, I think if you if you looked at it, I saw that tweet, and I really I like that. I think you could say something similar about like Brady too, where Brady had like these kind of distinct runs. I think with with Rory, uh, you know, this is a longevity that we haven't seen since really Phil and Ernie in terms of Infurick maybe uh, in terms of like really great play for a really long time, like Tiger's.
Tiger's career was kind of like, you know, twelve years and then it was like hit or miss for a year here, a year there for the next you know, ten. With Rory, I think you have that middle lull. I would say kind of like twenty sixteen to really twenty twenty one was where he was in this like in between phase. You know, it's kind of like a in that phase that's where there was a lot of frustration, a lot of stuff happened. But you know, he's come out the other end from like twenty twenty two on.
He's been you know, I know he hasn't won a major, but he's been so consistent in majors. It's Yeah.
Well, he actually mentioned I don't know if he saw his presser, but he mentioned twenty I think he said twenty fifteen to twenty twenty where he like he was actually talking. Actually, I don't think it was in his press conference. I think it was on live from where he said it with Brande All and those guys afterward, and he was just saying like I didn't really he
was talking more about like from an emotional standpoint. He's like, I didn't I didn't really put myself out there, and I didn't commit myself to.
Like the game emotionally.
I think that's the right way to say what he was saying in the way that I have over the last five years. And he's like, it's hard to put yourself out there all the time because you have to take a lot of crap from people when you don't win, or if you don't win, which is going to be often and I thought that was really interesting. I think it's funny because people have given him a lot of flack about the last three or four years of not winning majors, which I think is actually the wrong way
to view it. I think if you want to give him flack for his career, it's like he didn't give himself a chance at winning a major between what the fourteen PGA and really like, yeah.
Twenty one ers.
I'm trying to think twenty eighteen at CARNOUSTI was kind of in it, but there were very very few chances at winning a major championship in that six year period. And that's like, I mean, for somebody like Rory who's out there really early on in his career, that's prime major winning years, and he kind of kicked him away
a little bit. That's probably an unfair way to say it, but I think that's the part to be critical about, not the last three or four years of like near missus that that's worthy of praise, but the part before that is like, man, you kind of whiffed on twenty four twenty eight major opportunities there.
Yeah, I you know, it's interesting because like I wonder why it happened. There. I didn't expect to be having this conversation, but you know, like what in that period it probably was you know, the least good Roy McElroy in terms of like high level golf. I think it could be that there was like a wave of new players. It kind of like he wasn't you know, the game was changing, there were new young talents. That's kind of when the emergence of Speeth and Justin Thomas, Jason Day
reaching the top of the game like other players. I think there is like this thing with with golf, and I think it's going it's happening right now where Rory pushed a number of great players to new level, Jason
Day being one of them. Like Jason Day went up in his play to match Rory in like say twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, and now Scotti Scheffler has done something similar to Rory where he's raised the bar where Rory was at the peak of the game for you know, really since twenty ten till now, he's considered, if not the best, one of the best, and last year was the first time that it was clear he was not the best, you know, Yeah, And with that bar raising, he has
clearly taken his game to the next level.
In my opinion, yeah, I think I definitely think some of it is is players. I mean, you know, twenty that was kind of the era where it was like these guys that grew up watching Time. I mean, I know Rory grew up watching Tiger, but it was really like the.
Sort of JT.
Speed Like that era was like prime, like, oh, Tiger's in golf, I'm going to go play golf because it's cool and there's a ton of money in it, by the way, and all those guys started to hit at the time where Rory was getting into. I think the other part of it with Rory is like you went four majors at twenty five, and then you start looking around and like, you know.
Is this just it?
Like is this It gets a little existential of like, oh, is this all that life is going to be? And so I think he went through that five six year period and then you get old. I mean you and I experienced this in our careers in our lives, Like you get old enough to where you have a little bit of like, oh, I've only got like the X number of years left to do this. I need to
really commit myself to it and appreciate it. And I think there's some of that in there well, just from a from a psychological and an emotional perspective.
Of his as well. To bring it back to the players, though, I think, I don't know how you feel.
I thought he I thought he did a great job of decision making at TPC Sawgrass. I just there's times over the years, I know we all have group text about it like.
What are you like, why are you hitting that shot?
Like?
What are you doing? Man?
You know, it's one moment with nine on Saturday when he hit in the water on nine with the driver. Yeah, it was like, wait did you hit that?
But that was that was kind of old old Rory. I go back to I think it was on.
Do you think he was trying to hit it over the water?
I mean it went straight in.
He wasn't that far away from getting it over.
That's what I'm saying. I don't think he hit it well.
It didn't even touch land.
I know. That's why. He just did not hit it well. And you couldn't possibly be trying to hit it up the left side.
He Uh, there was a moment on Friday, him and Shuffler and Xander were playing together and JT had just on Thursday hit that mini driver into the water on eighteen and JT is always trying to like like rope like roll one over on eighteen and get it going up the left side. And I watched, I watched. I
think Rory hit first. He just hits three woods like kind of kind of cutting through wood like up the middle, working to the right side, and I was like, man, that's such like a just an adult decision from him, you know, and and some one that I'm sure he's tempted to not make because he can hit that huge drawing driver up there if he if he catches it, but it's just it's such a smart, like Friday adult decision.
Yeah, yeah, he. I think also like his targets. He talked about this in his post round about how conservative he was this week with his targets, and I think it like was he was out of position at a time, and it's because like he had this great week putting and scrambling, but he was doing it from like positions where it was feasible to recover. He wasn't putting himself. It wasn't like when you think back to like even okill a couple of years ago when he was chasing
on Sunday. Yeah, and it's like, oh, this might be set up for Rory come back. And he gets going and he misses, like the second green, I think it was he missed it. Yeah, he missed his short sighted right makes a bogie and he's immediately out of it because it's like he needed It's like and he pushed the gas too much, and it's like that's the one place you couldn't miss it, because like what you can't
do is go backwards. Like this week in particular, it just seemed like every miss was left in a place where he had enough space to work with and and get get himself into a position to make a par if he did miss Yeah.
And I can't think that that is anything other than watching Scotty over the last two years, right, I think I think Scotty's course management is the best in the world and Rory's I think, I mean, I haven't seen everything. I've seen a lot of Rory pressers. I think he kind of talks about Scotty a lot, like pretty openly, like, and some of it's joking, like, oh, we'll never catch Scott.
You know whatever, But I have to think he is like looking at Scotty and saying, man, I hit it as good as him, I hit it better than him. What is he doing that's different than me?
Oh?
Course, management decision, Like I just I can't think that's I mean, I have to think that some of that has rubbed off on the way that he is going about playing some of these golf courses, because it is materially different than I think a lot of the way he's gone about it in the past.
Yeah, there's like a I think one of the things that Scotty has is like a lack of ego in his game where he's not afraid to take speed off to hit fairways, Like he isn't afraid to not take on flags because he knows he could, just like he's
going to hit. And it's like always like you know, I don't know if this is a statistic, but it's been kind of like every time I've seen Rory for the most part, with Scotty, outside of maybe last year's Players where Scotty like really played great and Rory didn't play that great, But didn't they paired together last year at the Players too.
I think so I think Rory was didn't he miss he missed the cut?
He did not play well at the But like to me, when we've seen them together and we saw him at uh was Pinehurst? Did they play together? Lacc? They were together on Sunday, Yeah, and then this week.
I don't remember Pinehurst this week.
Something that's always jarring to me is like how much Scotty starts behind Rory, Because like, if you think about it as like a race, like Rory's often like forty yards ahead of him. Yeah, he hits his so much further than Scotty does that he's already like, you know, let's just say a tenth or a tenth or two, a tenth or so better than Scotty on every single hole. That's not a part three And it's just like Scotty's
been so good from there in. But like from a skill standpoint, I think Rory overall is a better putter. I think Scotty is probably a better iron player, a better short game, but the short game's not that different. Rory's a great short game player. It has a great short game and a lot of the iron play where Rory gets himself in trouble over you know, over the last five or six years, it's just been around like a few bad misses.
Yeah, well, I think I mean, you sort of answered it right there. You can be it's like a tortoise in the hair thing. You can be a tenth better, a tenth better for nine straight holes and then you hit one into a spot that like on nine that you cost yourself a stroke and you just erased all those tints that you that you stacked up right. And
that's where Scotty is. And it takes so much mental energy to make to maintain that decision making over the course of seventy two holes, because these guys, I mean, this is a j I talk about this with JT all the time. It's like, well I could hit that shot. It's like, yeah, I know you, I know you could,
but that's very different than you should, you know. And that's that's the part where I'm so impressed by Scotty's humility and his lack of ego, and his willingness to be super conservative in spots where you would think one of the best ball strikers in the game and of the last twenty years would not be conservative, but he is. And I think that I think I do think that part has rubbed off on Rory a little bit.
Yeah, I think, like he said it early this year, like he's going to play more like Scotti this year and his patience, and I thought this was like this tournament was like the showcase of that. He clearly did not have his A game this week. And yeah, he's still won, and I think a lot of people were saying he kicked away winning it in regulation. I mean,
this is one of the best fields in golf. I think the other part of his game that he's transformed, besides the kind of more conservative targets and smarter play, is like he has added so many shots his repertoire where now like there was this advanced analytic from I think it's ron close that he's the best player an eighteen plus miles an hour wind on the PGA Tour.
You know, this is a guy that people said when the conditions get tough years, you know, in that twenty sixteen range, he couldn't play when it was firm or windy, he couldn't play. In the last couple of years, we've seen when it's been the toughest conditions at the US Opens, he's become the best US Open playersh Yeah, at the Scottish Open, like he rises to the occasion when these win. And a lot of it is the development of his
off speed stuff. Like he's known for his power, but his ability now to take speed off on the irons in particular and hit those flight and knocked down shots.
You saw it on seventeen. It was the difference in the playoff was Rory's ability to take speed off hit something that was very unpredictable in the wind with that flighted shot versus JJ spawn just simply not having the same shot in the bag, hitting a more like full shot that got up in the air and the wind not hitting it right like that was the difference in the wind.
Well, I think it's I think what's interesting about that is he's really evolved from like you used to think, oh it's got a rain or be soft or wet for Rory to to really like, you know, go out and have a chance to beat this field. And now it's almost the opposite. You almost want like for for his sake, he almost wanted to be fast, firm, windy. But again, like I think the thing that really stood out about this week in particular is he balanced having
those shots with knowing when to use them. It's one thing to have them, it's another thing to know when to apply the gas and when to pull off and hit the brake. And we don't always see top level players make the right decision. I mean I always go back to JT and it's like always got every shot, and it's like, well, that's fine if for if I'm just watching you on the range, but can you apply them in the right situation? And if you can't, then
it doesn't matter. You're going to shoot yourself out of it. And I thought that he did a great job of applying those shots. Yeah, it like your practice and your work you've put in builds up those shots, but applying them in the right situation like we saw in seventeen, like we saw on.
Six.
You know that kind of forty yard cut out of the pinestraw there, Like that's a six shot, but you have to know when to use it and when not to.
All right, what's your next thing?
My next thing is a little bit related to those shots, which is that I have really come to love and appreciate TPC Sawgrass and I think early in my career covering golf twenty thirteen. I didn't have a huge golf background, and so I was kind of ambivalent toward TPC Sawgrass. I didn't appreciate it. I didn't hate it, but I grew to dislike it a little bit because everybody, everybody just talks about seventeen too much, and it just everything
felt a little bit overrated. But man, I just think it is a really cool test of professional golf in a way that those guys don't often get tested outside
of major championships. And I put something about that on Twitter and Michael Kim responded and said that he thinks it's because it was specifically built for professional golf, whereas a lot of these places a lot of it, Like you know, you think about a place like TPC Craig Ranch, that's probably a bad example, but a lot of other courses they get that they go to, it wasn't necessarily
built for professional golf. And I'm I'm I'm not a architecture Like, I don't know architecture, but I do know like variants, like you can just look at the numbers.
And I was talking to Rick Gaiman and I said, man, that the variance in scoring has to be wider here than anywhere else, and he he told me that this TPC Sagrass and Mirfield Village are the two widest standard deviations in terms of scoring every year on consistently on the PGA Tour, So outside of the majors, those are the two highest, which to me makes sense after watching.
Yeah, I think you nail it. Like the it being designed and Michael Kibb being designed for professional golf is such a big aspect of it because like you're not concerned with playability, and I think like it shows generally a TPC sawgrass, like the more offline you hit it, the wor your your situation is like because there's a lot of water because it's built out of swamp, Like if you you blasted offline, you're generally going in water.
Water is obviously I think something that like tests and scares pro golfers because of the you know, penalty associated with it. The way you just described rorate for nine holes, making up point one point one point one off every tea and then losing it all on one shot, Like
that's a big part of it. I think, like the other thing about it is like when you're designing, like you're not thinking about playability concerns, and I think that's one of the big things that that Sagress has going for it is that they don't have to address like hey, we need to get fifteen handicaps around here or twenty
handicaps around here. Obviously it is a very popular public golf course, but you know you're going to play this championship golf course and a good example of this, like and I think it's gotten softer over the years, Like this has been like a delicate balance for the tour to run because they have this cap cow. I mean, yeah, you start to do the math on the back of a napkin of like what an eight hundred you know, two hundred or two hundred and fifty players at eight
hundred bucks ahead? Does you know on a daily basis you start to look at the numbers, it's like this thing makes a shitload of money, right, Like, so they have to balance, They have to balance the idea of like this is a popular place for people to play with like we host this championship, but the idea that it was built one of the things I love about what's going on there, and with the recent work that Scott Sherman and Davis love have done like to me,
like the new work on fourteen with those super severe moguls is like quintessential Sawgrass because that t shot you need, You're supposed to hit it up the left side, like that's where you want to hit it, but you got water in a bunker over there, and it's scary and you have like it's on a diagonal, so you have
to pick how far you want to cover. And as you saw, like I thought with Rory's restart like that, that's the worst first driver to have to hit after a four hour break, and of course he bails way right. It gets him in trouble. He has to chip out will Zl Taurus is cooking. Oh gosh, he was flying. I thought he was gonna win the tournament after the thirteenth hole and he hits it right over there, and it's just you know, it's the what you cannot bail.
And that's what I love about Like that work was like it's added back in that severity over there, has added in the penalty for bailing. And I think that's what Sawgrass does so well, is it shows you know where you want to go, but you just can't get there.
Like it's hard to get yourself to go there. And if you do not swing freely, and if you try and guide it around there, you are in for a world of like it's kind of just like body blows all day, and I think it's got Like what what's unique about sawgrass is it has I think there are golf courses that kind of paper cut you to death. Sawgrass can apply body blows. And then there are a few places on the golf course as we saw we
see every year with seventeen is one of them. What happened is zeal toursund fourteen, Like, there are a few places on that golf course that can complete deliver knockout blows and that's where you get that high variance.
Yeah, I think even eighteen isn't I don't know what architecture people think about eighteen Again, not my world, but it's just asking a question of you that is very unique. You know, you've got the whole planet to the right, and you can go too far right though you can bail out, but it's going to be a nightmare. But then if you it's just I mean, it requires and I know you guys, and I think Joseph's written about
this quite a bit. But it just requires consequential decision making in shots that you don't get it a lot of. I mean you watch most tour stops and it's like, I don't think double is really in play, and certainly not triple. And here it's like you could finish eight six, five, five y five, like like Zalataurus did, and that is I mean Saturday, and there's thirty sixty six is and I realized they're a little bit earlier in the day. Emilionogrioz struggling to break ninety.
Yes, and that is and that was a guy who had like, legitimately play a good Saturday. You're in contention.
Yeah, he was late. I mean he was later.
He wasn't super late, and he's playing well on the week and she goes out in.
Forty five and you're like, oh my god.
And I get it was windier and the wind kicked up and all that, but that's just a I think that's a facet that we're only accustomed to scene at tough major championships. I think about a windy Augusta. I think about an Open when he gets a little there's a little bit of weather. A US Open obviously, but man, the variants in scoring, I just have I just think
it's awesome. I think it makes for a great championship and it I think it's part I mean, if you look at the leaderboard and you just erase Rory's name, it's not it's not ideal, you know, like it's not great for the tour, but it's guys that are playing great golf.
Right and it allows variety totally. You know, I think like if anything this this week, I think especially with the weather you saw, you saw flushers. You know, like nobody on that board is not a very good iron player, right, Like JJ spawn. The skill that has really risen to the top with him over as he's become a better and better player. The skill that was really evident when he was on corn Ferry Tour and Canadian Tour was the iron play. Tom Hogy certain he's played well there
historically great iron player. You know, it's a comedy. It's like precise players are really rewarded there where you know, I think, like you know, there's so many golf courses where precision doesn't matter that much because you hit it over a certain threshold. Once your power gets to a certain level. On a lot of golf courses that the tour plays, the precision's just overwhelmed because it's like, at the end of the day, I'm hitting a wedge into
fairly large targets. And I think this is where what you said about like and what Michael said about it being designed for pros makes a big difference, because like, you can't just overwhelm Sawgrass. Like, sure, you could get hot and overwhelment probably for a round or two. It is really hard to just strictly your your strategy cannot be too overwhelm it for seventy two holes because at some point it will get you with a big number when you spray one, you know, or hit a really bad wedge.
Yeah, And how many times have you and I been at a major where you know, we're talking on Saturday or Sunday and you say something like, I don't even know if this place is identifying the guy that's playing best, right, And I don't really ever feel like that that's the case at TPC Sawgrass.
I think that.
You want to identify the guy who's hitting the ball best, and not just who's hitting at the farthest or who's the got the fastest swing speed or whatever. And I have no doubt this week that Lucas Glover and JJ Spahn and Rory hit the ball better than anybody else in the field, you know, like those are the guys that, oh yeah, and and I just think that is it it to me, it's it's it's just very different than when we normally get at a PGA Tour event, and
I I think it's great. I think it's very appealing. I think it's compelling. I I was looking forward to this week maybe more than I ever have before. And I think that it got tiring if I like, get dragged on forever into Monday and all that. But it just is a golf course that I think is I think that the Tour does a great job with it. And I think that it identifies god that are hitting the ball very very well, which is which is awesome.
All right, what's your last one?
Well, my last one?
This is maybe a personal one, but I got a little bit and I'm interested to hear your take. I have purposely not listened as to not I don't know if you do this, but I get scared that I'm going to steal other people's takes and apply them to mine, and so I just try to stay siloed during major weeks.
That's one of the things that I like I try and do too, is I don't like listening to other golf podcasts because you don't want to get other people's thoughts in your head.
Yes, totally, but one of my takeaways from this week was I just I found Scotty Shuffler's sort of reactions and disposition to be pretty tiresome. And I like Scotty as a player. I think he's way underrated and just incredible. I like him as a person. I have good interactions
with him. We have a good rapport, but he just I think when you're not winning and you start to, you know, mutter and groan at every single bounce that you get or every single thing that happens, It's like, I don't know, man, I think the wind is blowing for everybody else as well. I think these are the same greens that everybody else is hitting to, and I'm just curious. I think that's one thing it's gonna be.
That's sort of he did it a lot last year, and it kind of gets swept under the rug because he's winning nine times I'm interested to see how how that goes this year.
If he's not winning at.
All, you don't think he's getting worse bounces than everybody else on tour this way, he suggests on Saturday.
No, absolutely, remember the bounce he got when he won the Masters, when the when he hit it into like the bomb roll forrest left of eighteen and it kicked out just like right the grass.
Remember, yeah, and listen, like, I think part of it is like that was a good violence. Yeah, And it's like, dude, I don't know. Part of it is every shot in reaction is shown, which is unfair to him. I totally get that. And again Michael Kim responded to me and said, there's I got a list of guys that are way worse than Scottie Scheffer, which I don't I think is like for sure true, but I can only see what is shown.
To me, and I just I don't know.
I'm I don't know how that's going to go for him if that continues this year.
I mean, this is the story of every pro golfer ever. Uh, this is a story of like almost every golfer ever. Is that everybody Like it's just such a psychologically difficult sport that it's very hard to blame yourself. Yeah, right, And I think like the vast majority of golfers are completely delusional. Like the best golfer are almost the most illusional ones. They never sure it's like maybe you just
didn't hit a good shot. Scotti is not, that's not something that's in his head, like maybe I misjudge the win.
Yeah.
I think it would be like if you fully miked up players all the time and you could just listen to any of them, it would be astonishing as to what some of the players are thinking about. Like, do I think Scotty's reactions are different than everybody else? No, I also think like this is like like I think that it shows some in some ways, Like I think Rory's like very self aware. I don't think like Rory really moans and goes on and on about bad bounces
here or there like occasionally might. But I do think that there are, like there's just different spectrums of golfers. And I think Scotty's on the one that like doesn't believe he's he's ever done anything wrong on a golf course or hit a bad shot. I mean, golfers are weird. And I think like the other thing that Scotty's dealing with right now that I talked about this with Jeff Ogilvie a little bit, and Ogilvie was like, the hardest thing to do is to play after the week you've won.
But my where I kind of Jeff, you know, I was like, is there an issue with is it make it the next year really hard when you win nine times? And he was like, oh, absolutely, yeah, because your expectations, his expectations are so I mean, they're so over the moon. I guarantee it. He won so much last year, Yeah, that it's going to make this year extremely hard.
Yeah.
And I think that's a little bit. My point is like it can it can almost get going in the wrong direction to where you just are mentally and and look like Scotty is emotional and this is this is not like that different than he was last year or the year before that, of the year before that. I just think the public perception of him in the same way that it's it's I think turned a little bit on guys like Spieth and JT who are always gesticulating
and hollering. I wonder what happens with Scotty this year in turn, like you don't see that with Mark Awa and Xander and Rory, And there's a lot of top guys that I think are on TV a lot that don't do that.
So I don't know.
I just and again like that's a personal thing that I noticed, but I think it could start to to affect him a little bit, just in terms of like whether it's the way that the media speaks to him and perceives him, or the way that fans perceive him or whatever. I'm just int something I've got my eye on going into into major season.
Something's been off since he came back. You know, he's been really chippy with the media. He's been a little agitated on the golf course.
Yeah, but is that a isn't that a expectation thing?
I think so, you know, like, but it's it's also I think this is what we want.
You know.
The thing that I worry about is like, to me, i'd I'd take ten Scottie shufflers, powdy Scottie shufflers giving us something to talk about over Xander, who looks the same if he's you know key Yeah, well, I mean JJ spawn was like, you know, gave us like nothing. I thought he was really good in the press conference, uh, talking about like his journey and like belief in his
in himself. But like in terms of like I mean he made when he made the shot I made the putt from off sixteen Green on Saturday, I was like Holy God, Like I was like that was insane. Yeah, and he and it's just like no reaction, you know, Like I think I'd rather have people that like articulate how they're feeling in the more than someone that doesn't give us anything, like you know, like Xander to me is like the ultimate like you get. And I think it's like such a weapon the way he plays. You know.
I say this as a member of media who wants stuff to talk about, but Xander is just so steady inside the ropes right like where you can tell if he had made four birdies in a row or four bogies in a row for the most part.
Yeah, do you think that Scotty is a great character because I mean we talk about the idea of individual sports having characters, and you look at all the like the tennis guys, they were all great characters, obviously great players, but they also had their own sort of Ethos.
And you know they were good.
Phil's an amazing character, speeth is a character, Rory's a good character. Do you think Scotty is a good character.
I don't necessarily think he's like a great character. I don't think he's a bad character. I think he's gotten infinitely more interesting over the last year. Like I think you've seen him come out of his shell. He's been funny at times, and I think like he's gotten a lot better. I think, like in terms of like being in front of the media and answering questions all the time, he's gotten better. I think like him being chippy honestly makes him a better character.
What do you think, Yeah, I'm I think I'm with you. I remember I was talking to one media member at the twenty twenty what was the first Masters he won, twenty twenty two.
I think, yeah, yeah, twenty two, because twenty three was wrong.
And this media member said, gosh, I'm not looking forward to his presser because he's just always so boring, and I kind of I didn't know how to take that statement at the time. I definitely disagree with it. Now I think he is If you listen to Scotty talk about golf or life or anything. He's got some really interesting I think, stuff you can apply to your own golf game or wife or whatever. I think he also kind of low key has some some takes. Like I
think he has some takes. He sometimes not always, but sometimes floats out there and you're like, oh, give me more on that. What else you got in there? Uh so, yeah, I think he's I'm with you. I think he's an above average character. He's not He's not a phill fills like a ten of ten character, you know, but I think he's certainly a better character than I thought he was going to be three years ago.
I just worry about how he is.
I worry about how he's perceived a little bit and how that affects him because we've seen that negative spiral. He's not as abrasive as somebody like a Bryson, but we still, I mean, think about how much we saw Bryson spiral when kind of the media got against him, and you know, like, and I don't know that Scotty's in danger of that happening, but it was just something that it sort of clicked for me that for the first time during this Players Championship.
Are you more worried about Colin Markalla in the media or or Scottie Scheffler in the media.
I don't know if you're joking or not, but uh, I don't know. I cannot believe Marc that was that.
That that and I mean this in all sincerity. That reeked of somebody that just had never been told no or never been criticized before, right Like, uh that that was just like, Oh, you've never faced adversity in in your life or that's what That's what it seemed like.
I'm not saying that he hasn't, but that that that was just the perception after he I mean he he almost started crying, but he was so emotional about it, and you're like, gosh, I think and all these guys I wrote about this for the newsletter, all these guys want to be loved like that that just as all of us.
Do as humans. And I think it like.
He just had it seems like he and of course you win two majors and people are just worshiping you, and then it's like, oh, not everybody loves me, and that can be that can be pretty jarring, and clearly it.
Was for him.
Yeah. I I sometimes just wonder about like somebody's got to give him advice not to do that. Yeah, you know, it's are you worried about Scottie at all? Like do you do you game? Yeah? From a game standpoint, No, not not really.
I do think I was looking at his numbers from TC Sagrass and he was bad around the greens, and and the thing that I was thinking about that Andy is, you know, the injury that he had in December was to his hand, and I think he's go at some of the best or most underrated hands in the world in terms of him and ram their hands short game are just unbelievable. And so you're like, hmm, is there something in there that there's a little bit of lost touch or there's a little bit of I don't know.
That's just that's one thing that I've I think noticed a little bit early on in his year. But I don't I don't want to get too worked up after what was he played like four events, five events and he's finished top twenty five and all of them.
I think, yeah, I you know, I think it's just a I think he's such a creature habit. It's hard because he's come into this year with like a different schedule. Yeah, and he's he's working his way into it. That being said, like, don't love that he hasn't. I mean, I don't think he's had a chance, real chance to win on Sunday this year, you know. And I think that's that's a little bit concerning. You know, in terms of stats, he is forty fourth around the green okay, for you know,
it's early. It's he's only got twenty measured rounds, but forty fourth kind of I mean, I think that's that's the big difference, you know, in where he's at.
Yeah.
And I think what's interesting about him from a from a narrative perspective is like, I mean, I heard somebody talking about this the other day. It might have been it might have been you, I don't I don't remember who it was, but just the idea that you get this sort of two year window of your peak golf, like the best golf of your life, maybe a year and a half, eighteen months. I think Patrick care Harrington used to talk about this window that you get, and
some guys it's lasted longer than that. Maybe Rory like we're to bring it fully back around. Maybe he's had a couple of randows, yeah, or earth maybe maybe three. I don't know, but I think the question everybody was asking, or at least I was asking, and I think other people in golf media were asking with Scotti is like, man, was that last two years like your window?
Not that you're not gonna.
Win or play great golf again or whatever, but was that like, like, how long can you realistically keep that level? I mean, he's playing right now, if you just look at twenty twenty five.
He's playing at a pretty high level. He's playing really good Golf's.
Fourth in strokes gad total. Yeah, he's been really really good.
But it's it's coming off that two year window of like, you know, is this just the dip back down to yeah, okay, maybe you win once a year or twice every three years like a normal star, not like a Tiger level star. I think that part is really intriguing for the next I mean, Phil doesn't think he's gonna win at all, so who knows.
I mean, well, what.
A take to win five dude?
Somebody? And I still think this.
I think Phil could have had and maybe still could have the Barklay career where our kids only know him as a great commentator and not a great player.
I think for that to happen, they're the next broadcast deal has to go away from from Golf Channel. I think that it would be impossible for Golf Channel to bring him in. Why brandle him? I just don't don't see it. I think there's just too much bad blood there from from the divorce. Now, like what would be interesting. I just saw like NBC and and USGA. I saw Josh Carpenter had that story over the weekend, didn't reach their deal.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Like now say like a a streamer comes in, like Apple or Amazon or yeah, you know whatever it may be Netflix, Like, could you see it a very small like role there? Yeah? Absolutely, I think like it would require something else, you know.
Yeah, that's a good point. I just want to see him cooking up takes. I mean, you think Johnny Miller had takes, Phil's got nuclear take, I mean just the hottest takes.
It would be incredible.
Uh. And I know there's been rumors of him in different kind of lead seats over the years at different at different places, and that, you know, I think once the live thing happened, everybody thought out that that can never happen. But I think, you know, like you give it enough time and anything could take place, could happen. So I'm interested to see if that ever does go down.
I think, I legitimately think if he was not saying like truly crazy things, that he'd be really really good in that in that chair.
I think we saw little bits and pieces of it. He would have been the best. I think, you know, I think obviously I think Trevor's been really good.
Agree uh.
And I think NBC has a few things to straighten out. I think they're they I think the double the double booth.
Is not there's so many people.
It's just not there's nobody. Nobody can have the ball long enough to make a play, you know.
Yeah, it's like it's like uh lines and hockey or something.
It's just it's crazy because it's like, especially it was especially illuminated with the playoffs, where it looks like that just fasting it back and forth.
It feels this doesn't this isn't actually happening.
It feels like they're running them out of the booth and down the stairs and running somebody else in like to the microphones.
That's what it feels like. It's happening.
Yeah, but uh, Kyle, thanks for coming on. Uh what do you what do you have coming up on normal sport?
Oh?
We will be breaking down the players all week. I think one of my favorite parts of being independent is I can kind of write whatever I feel like is important in the moment. And I feel like, you know, you have six weeks a year that are really really important, and you know what does that leave forty six that are not as important?
So what about the travelers?
But I know you're partial to the love.
The I love the signature events. The weeks after majors.
Oh gosh, it's so brutal.
But yeah, we'll be doing players all week and then obviously ramp up for for Agusta. We'll be I'll be going to a Gusta Masters as got credential for normal sports. That'll be fun and I'm sure we'll hang out a bunch there.
Yeah, we'll see you there. Thanks Kyle. All Right, that does it for another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. Big thanks to PJ Clark. He is working overtime. He's spent. We have warn him out. PJ was on the ground all week. It was fun to see him interact with with all this fans on the ground, PJ has become I think the most beloved, loved member of the Friday Golf team. And he put this, produced this, and it's
just going NonStop. So he needs a day off here pretty soon, and I think he's going to get one this weekend with his Saint John's in the NCAA tournament. But anyways, big thanks to Gabby and Kyle for joining and we will be back next week. We'll probably get some golf architecture talk into next week's episode, so thanks for joining in and we'll be back next week.