Takeaways from the 2022 Masters - podcast episode cover

Takeaways from the 2022 Masters

Apr 12, 20221 hrEp. 355
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Episode description

Scottie Scheffler played so brilliantly at the 2022 Masters that, for much of the final round, the outcome wasn’t in doubt. But what this Masters may have lacked in competitive tension, it made up for in rich storylines. To think through some of these deeper narratives, Garrett Morrison speaks with three guests: Jaime Diaz (@JaimeDiazGC), a veteran golf writer who is currently an analyst for Golf Channel; Bob Crosby (@Otey71), a golf historian; and Joseph LaMagna (@JosephLaMagna), the analytics whiz behind the Finding the Edge newsletter.

For more reflections on the Masters from the Fried Egg team, go to our Masters hub.

Timestamps:

(3:40) Jaime Diaz interview

(29:11) Bob Crosby interview

(49:18) Joseph LaMagna interview

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Intro / Opening

Speaker 1

I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

Speaker 2

When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

Speaker 3

And when I find my ball in a Bride egg, Friday Egg.

Speaker 1

The dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg, Frida Egg, Brian Egg, Frida Egg, Bride Egg, Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump. Hello, and welcome to the Frida Egg Podcast. My name is Garrett Morrison, and today we're talking about takeaways from the twenty twenty two Masters Tournament. So I have to be honest. From a competitive perspective, this wasn't the most compelling Masters in recent memory. Scotti

Scheffler dominated the event from Friday through Sunday. Yes, Cameron Smith challenged him at various points in Roy McElroy a great run on Sunday, but Scheffler played so brilliantly that for most of the final round the outcome really wasn't in doubt. And Yet what this Masters may have lacked in competitive tension, I think it made up for in

rich interesting storylines. First, there's Scotty Scheffler, who has won four of his past six tournaments, and this weekend fully confirmed his status as the number one golfer in the world. Now we can legitimately ask the question, is Scheffler Golf's next superstar or is this just an incredible hot streak. Then there's Rory McElroy, who did seem to exercise some of his Master's demons on Sunday as he shot sixty

four and finished solo second. It was really thrilling to see him pull out from the bunker right of the eighteenth green and not quite know what to do with his body because he was so excited. But from another point of view, you could see Rory's performance yesterday as yet another example of him finding his game at Augustine exactly when he knows he doesn't have a chance to win. And of course we can't not talk about Tiger Wits.

Fourteen months ago, he drove his car at a dangerous rate of speed into a ravine in Palos Verdays, California. His lower extremities were mangled and he was confined to a bed for months. This past weekend, he made the cut at the Masters and walked seventy two holes at Augusta National, which, in case you haven't heard, is hillier than it looks on TV. It was obvious that Tiger was in pain, but equally obvious that he was determined to prove that he could do it. Finally, there was

a lot of discussion of the course itself. Augusta National made substantial renovations to its eleventh and fifteenth holes and smaller tweaks to a few others. The quality of these changes and the effect they had on competition was a topic of discussion all week, and will wrap it up as best we can in this podcast. As will typically do for major championship recas this year, we talked to three different guests for this episode, all with unique perspectives

on the game. First, we have Heimi Diaz, who talked to me from his hotel room after finishing up his work for Golf Channel's terrific show Live from the Masters. Heimi has written for The New York Times and Sports Illustrated, and he is one of my favorite golf writers of all time. In addition, we've got two voices that you'll recognize if you have listened to the Friday Podcast for a while, Bob Crosby, a golf historian, and Joseph Lamanna, an analytics expert. All right, let's get to it. Here

are some takeaways from the twenty twenty two Masters. All right,

Jaime Diaz interview

so I have Jimi Diaz on the phone. Jimi has been out at Augusta National covering the tournament for Golf Channel. How you doing, himI, You've had a long day.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it's a long day, but it's an hilarating day, and it's kind of nice to just I'm here in a guess the hotel room right now, very or of stated by the whole day, by the whole week. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Well, thank you so much for spending some time with me after your long day and making this part of your wind down. But I was just wondering, you know, if you could have one general takeaway from this tournament, what would that be?

Speaker 4

Well, I think the brilliance of Scottie Scheffler. Yes, he's sort of new on the scene in terms of being a force in the game, but you are seeing a very fast evolution of a player who's i think recognized that you know, maybe he's a little better than he even knew him himself to be, even though he's always been on a gradual upward track going way back to when he won in the US Senior Amateur. But he has the properties and the qualities of I think the best tools for the modern game. He hits the ball

very high, hits the ball quite long. He's not the most accurate, but he's not He's not a wild driver by any means. Uh. He hits very authoritative, you know, high irons that can that can stop on major championship quality firmness, and he's shown that already. And uh, I think the six previous majors he finished top twenty, which

for a young guy is impressive. Uh. And of course we see the not just the creativity, but the you know, the the real quality strike of his short game and how he how he can really recover again on really fast from greens because he he does strike it so so purely with a lot of spin, and he's really good at those shots with sixty degree wedges that you know Phil Michelson for example. I think that was his

great advantage. Not that Scotty gets a lot of flop shots, but just has the uh, the craftiness and the hand eye and the awareness of the of the clubhead to really fashion shots and recover when he does make a mistake, which I think for a power hitter that's so important.

You're going to be winning tournaments because power hitters just they have less margin for error and they're going to make mistakes and they're not going to be Although Scotty is a good iron player, it's just he's not, you know, this kind of point to point guy like Colin Morikawer or someone, and so you got to have the short game.

I mean, that's what Sev did, That's what Greg Norman did, That's what Tiger did to a large extent, you know, it's a way of being I think traditionally a dominant type player Phil you know, earning to some extent, they had both the power in the hand. But I think Scotty is showing real promise to be a guy with a very strong foundation who will last a long time. And this really wasn't a fluke.

Speaker 1

It seems like his game will age well. But at the same time, the reception of Scotty Shuffler has been interesting to me because I think people don't quite know what to make of him yet. I mean, he is a new name to a lot of people, to casual fans, to people who follow golf only occasionally. They sort of come back from the break from the last major and all of a sudden, this new guy is supposedly the best player in the world and people are trying to

process that. But also, you know, unlike Rory, unlike even Colin Morrikawa, Scotty doesn't necessarily have one big skill that really stands out. You know, With Rory it's the driving of the golf ball. You know that that is so obvious that he's great at that, And then with Colin Morrikawa, it's the iron play. With Scheffler, it's it's a little

hard to tell what that standout skill is. And maybe it is just as you're saying, the combination of a few different things, the ability to hit the ball high and the wonderful hands around the green. Would you kind of say that that's where where his you know, outstanding excellence comes from.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think it's just the accumulation, you know, the well roundedness, you know, sort of the composite of it all right, and sort of lacks a weakness, or at least a really overt weakness, which I think Rory kind

of still has. He you know, when we talk about Rory, I think that was one of the big real positives of what he did this week, was where he was putting his focus on, you know, kind of to plug up the holes in his game that I think he's ignored for a while because I think he was under the impression that if I just drive it great' you know, I have such an advantage, I'll beat people, which is

not necessarily true. So you know, I think Scheffler has got a player's mentality as opposed of a ball striker's mentality or you know, a great swinger's mentality. He's about playing golf, and he's won in many different ways already, and it's it's just because he can access different tools at different times if he's not on with something else. The short games are to clean up a lot, and I don't know how long that lasts. I mean, I

think Tom Watson played like that a lot. I remember, you know, he was a dominant player who was not the most stylished ball striker. I mean, beautiful, great athlete and a lot of rhythm and power, but he hit it a lot of different places and and he would recover. I meant, I didn't mention him before, but I and Sevie of course, you know, was just a clean up magician.

Speaker 2

Uh.

Speaker 4

And then when he was on he did make a lot of birdies, but when he wasn't, he kept his birdy. He kept his birdies because he saved Parcel. Well, I think that's where his ship. I think that's where Scotty, that's his He's part of that continuum.

Speaker 1

Tom Watson is a really interesting comparison. I hadn't thought of that one, and I was trying to come up with what a good historical comparison for Scotty Scheffler would be. You mentioned Sevy and Tom Watson. Are there any other players that you can think of, you know, going back through the years that resemble Scotty Scheffler to you?

Speaker 4

Yeah, well, you know, I kind of went through my little list because I was thinking of number ones, and you know, Sandy Aisle was a little like that. It wasn't it wasn't that unusual, you know, against power and touch. That that was the thing that used to be considered rare. You know that if you had one, you probably didn't have the other. And those rare players that had the combination. Because Jack didn't really classically have a great short game.

He was you know, he was a great manager and so he he usually you know, would and hit and hit a ton of greens of course, but he was not a real stylish scrambler, right and uh, you know, to be people with proficiency and.

Speaker 1

Power and great putting, right he was. He was a power player and he could putt well. That was his that was his mask.

Speaker 4

Yeah. So he didn't have the wedge, but he didn't need it that often. He just a side. You know. I asked him that once and I said, Jack, why weren't you a better wedge player, you know? And he says, oh, I should have gone to see you know, Uh, Paul runying Jack Route never taught short game, and I just kind of told myself I didn't need it. I could slop it up there and make the He put it for PARB. But I said, hey, you didn't win every tournament.

He goes, You're right, you know, I probably got about I should have done it, and I just wasn't dedicated enough to do it. And and and I maybe, you know, was I was trying to save my energy because I knew if I obsessed about every shot and every every area of my game, I might go a little crazy. So it was just this kind of field thing that he chose to sacrifice. But to say, I think Tiger is the best example of having close to everything. But you know, Tiger was not the straightest driver, and so

he had to recover a lot. And I think he was and and he goes back to his junior days when he had to be a good little wedge player to stay up with all the longer kids that he was playing with who were older than him. And and he developed a wedge early and liked it, like the creativity of it and the variety of it, and what he could make the ball do and dance and all

those things. And it's you watch him in those warm ups, you know, if you watch a golf channel, in the show a shot that he is in practice that warming up. He loves hooking those little chips and hitting you know, all these little sort of almost like it's a playing table tennis or something. And that fascination makes him special along with all his other attributes. I think when he was off, he could always make a score. And I get that sense of Scotty he can always make a score.

Speaker 1

Now, speaking of the ability to make a score when you're not on, that seems to be an issue with Rory McElroy or has been for the past few years. And maybe even before that, maybe he was just so brilliant in other aspects of the game that he was able to make up for his, you know, seeming lack of ability to kind of put things together when he's off.

But today, Kimi, I think you noticed a few things that he was doing that were a little bit tighter around the greens, I guess, and where he was able to preserve scores in ways that maybe we haven't seen him do recently.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think it's more of a frame of mind and a focus, a new focus, and a final acknowledgment. You know that I am just letting too many shots leap away, and I don't no matter how well I hit it, especially off the tee, it's it's not going to make up for those for those lost, you know, sort of soft bogies that seem to undermine him, and I think they're discouraging too. I think they do something

to his momentum and his state of mind. I think, you know, Rory, in some ways, maybe the worst thing that ever happened was winning two majors by age shot, because I think it created the illusion that I can just overwhelm golf courses and overwhelm my opponents with my great advantages, which are great advantages. But two things happen. Number One, people see that marker out there, that this is what this guy's doing, and they catch up, you know, just like in every other sport, you know, the other

players adapt and get better. And I don't necessarily think Rory's the best driver of the ball anymore, not that he's not great at it, but there's a bunch of them, you know. I think DJ kind of took that mantle for a while, and maybe maybe John Rahm has it now. But so Rory doesn't have this five car length advantage over the field with the driver, and he's been exposed, in my opinion, for not having the other part of the game that we just talked about with Scotti Scheffler.

But what I noticed recently is he's been talking about it. He never used to talk about it very much. He just say, you know, I just got to you know, get a nice groove and and think about, you know, getting my golf swing a nice He didn't talk about short game very much, and now he is. He's at Texas. He did miss the cut there, but he said, I've got to get more consistent getting the ball up and down.

I've got to be better for May feeding in And I think that basically summarizes where he has in my opinion anyway, just watching and without quantifying it necessarily with stats, it just seems that's where he would undermine himself, especially in majors. And so that's where today was when he was asked what pleased him the most about his round? And it was such a beautiful round and it was so explosive and he hold out what four times from

off the green and it was incredible. So that's kind of fluchy, and don't you don't expect that, But he said it was saving par saving putts and getting up and down on He specifically said the eleventh hole, the twelfth hole, and the fourteenth hole, and they were all examples of where he had to make like a tough six footer for par or. He had to get it up and down from a fairly tight line, and he

did it and it kept him going it. You know, I was a Bogue list sixty four now, you know, I could have seen it easily be a sixty nine or a sixty eight if Rory had gotten into one of those bogey trains where he wasn't when he wasn't hitting it good making bogue because a couple of those verdies were places where he might have made bogey. He chipped in a couple of times too, so anyway, but the point is what the way he talked about, and I think Paul McGinley was talking about how he's working with.

Paul has worked with Rotella and knows Rotelo well, and he thinks he sees Rotella's fingerprints on high excuse me, on Rory's sensibilities right now.

Speaker 1

And this is this is Bob Rotella, the author of many bucks, including golf is not a game of perfect and and he works with has worked with many PGA Tour pros on their mindset.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I mean he's sort of a pioneering the pioneering sports psychologist in golf right probably, And you know, not a real complicated message, but it's really about, hey, how do you shoot a number? And how do you, you know, prepare yourself to make the best of what you have that day? And as you were saying earlier, Rory when he's not on, has not He's not good at at squeezing out the best of himself every when he's not on.

When he's on, he's he's an inspired player. And as we said, you know, he's won two majors by eight strokes and it's kind of his his legacy, but that's not going to happen anymore. I mean, he might win majors again, but it's not because there's too many people that play in a similar way to him for him to outstrip that unless he putched incredibly well and does the other things. But he's not going to do it just by a driving the ball perfectly and win by eight strokes.

Speaker 1

Well, something I was thinking about a lot this week is the idea of sustained greatness. Rory had a period of a few years where he was truly great and we all sort of assumed, because we were just coming out of Tiger's great era, that it would continue, but it didn't. And then since then we've also had great runs from Jordan Speith, from even Jason Day for a

little bit there. We're currently in the midst of one with Scotti Scheffler, we had a great run from from Brooks kept gun in majors at least, Yes, And what does it take to sustain greatness? And I think that's such a complicated question, not one that we're going to

get to answer here. But when you think of Tiger Woods and you think of how he sustained his greatness at various points in his career, people did seem to catch up to him, just as you said, you know, people have caught up to Rory in his driving of the ball. You know, people seem to kind of catch up to Tiger maybe by two thousand and two, two thousand and three, at least in terms of the equipment, right, he didn't have that advantage of the Eurethane Nike ball anymore.

And there were a few years when when he wasn't winning as many majors, But then he kind of reworks his swing, figures a few things out, and goes on another amazing run from about two thousand and five to two thousand and eight. And so Tiger has put together those different phases of his career, and now he's in yet another phase of his career where he's coming back from these injuries and doing things that just blow our minds in different ways. And it's all out of this

It seems like this love of the game. And I wonder if that's the thing that Tiger had that these other guys just don't quite have in his grade of quantities.

Speaker 4

Well, you framed it very well. I agree with so many of the things that you're implying in your question, and I do think Tiger is special physically, very very gifted. Obviously, it's not his greate as quality in his opinion he always talks about, not always, but he has talked about, you know, wanting to be sure maybe the most talented, and maybe not the most talent, but certainly the hardest worker,

and to be in his own mind, an overachiever. So there's this, but this is tremendous desire and burning ambition and determination that he has and who knows where that fuel comes from. That makes him special as well. And so I think to your point about, gee, we looked like there was a template being set there and Rory was going to follow it and you know, make the

Rory era as good as a Tiger era. And you know, I guess that's recency buyings or whatever you want to call it, but he definitely was sort of looking like he was heading there because you know, again, those major victories would buy so many shots, and then having four at such a young age. But I think the separator is tigers just refusal to ever be satisfied and to rise to any challengers. He rose to David Duvall, I mean,

he played his best golf when he was challenged. He rose to dj he rose to Ernie Els, and Jack did that to a large extent. I mean, he had a bunch of guys who came after him. He conquered Arnold, but then you know, there was Trevino, and there was Johnny Miller, and there was Weisskof, and there was Ray Floyd and probably missing some I mean, nobody really caught him. He answered every challenge until finally Age and Watson and

watching sort of his own genius finally overcame Jack. So I think that's a quality of greatness, and if you're going to sustain, you have to be motivated every time somebody challenges you. And I don't know that everybody had that.

But the other thing I think is that, in an inverse way, sort of Tiger becomes this cautionary tale because Tiger gave everything to the game in terms of his energy and his obsession towards perfection and improvement constantly, and you know, Tiger has lived a complicated life, and it may have taken a toll on him and his ability to balance life and have a good life because he made some mistakes that who knows where they came from. But I think there's a sense I don't know why

I just used the phrase cautionary tale. I think, you know, there are people who are close to that position, whether it be whoever Jordan Speeds or Jason Day or anybody who's got or Rory himself feeling like is it worth it? Can you have balance? Can you have a good life? If you're that obsessed by golf, and with the greater rewards available in golf and the extra comfort that comes with success, you got to be extra motivated to even want it more than as much as Tiger to to

stay at the top. You know, part of me thinks Tiger's just a generational talent, and part of me thinks that Tiger has created hesitancy to have the same kind of dedications among the guys who have followed him, who idolized him and want to be like him at least, you know, in terms of golf, But do they really want to be like him in terms of in terms of what it takes eternal.

Speaker 1

And the and the costs of that were on full display this this week, as as Tiger was in pain, you know, as as wonderful and inspirational as it was to see him come back in this manner, and it truly was. It was concerning, and it was it was tough to see him in so much pain, and and so that that is the cost of of you know, many years of his body going through what it has gone through.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I mean, you know, some of those some of those injuries were golf related, some of them were you know, certainly the psychic scars from the you know, from the scandal that he had I and said of those to be very significant, and overcoming them was without having any evidence other than just into intuition, were harder to overcome than the physical ones. And those you could say those scars were caused perhaps by getting his life out of balance with too much focus and not focus, but just

just too much of himself in one thing. And you know, who knows, But you know, I go back to what Nicholas said, He goes, I could have been better, but I would have driven myself crazy, and you know, whatever crazy means in his mind, it would have perhaps, you know, infringed on his life and his family and all the things that he hoped to keep in balance. That and others have praised him for us like as good as Jack was, he was pretty darn normal and that's kind

of the ideal. So I do think equipment is also maybe a category, is that it's brought players together in a way where it becomes ball striking is not as hard as it used to be, and so the putter, which is kind of probably the most capicious club in the bag, becomes a determiner of whether somebody stays at the top for however long they stay, and when that cool somebody else with a high putter comes up and

does it. That's awfully simplistic, but I think there's something to it that, you know, the artist thry that it is not as the demand on artistry with the irons and different shots and moving the ball around is not as great as it used to be. In the clubs don't let you do it. The ball don't let you do it as easily, and so it becomes kind of a straight ahead, more monotonous game that a lot of guys can kind of play, and the margins between players

are smaller. It seems like that has a big role in you know why there's so hard to dominate for a long time unless you have some clear advantage over everybody, and I don't. It's hard to find something. I mean, I think that's what Bryson was after, you know, as much as much as Bryson has you know, probably mismanaged it,

especially recently, especially getting hurt. He was after he was he was after something that was going to separate it, which I admire and you know, but it's it just shows how hard it is to separate and and and Bryson didn't do the necessary work at least maybe he had, he was planning to, but he hadn't done the necessary work on the rest of the game that was going to take advantage of the advantage that he was building

with the length. He had to have good wedges to capitalize on the on the length, and he never really got there in any event. You know, at least he was trying to do something. And even Tiger pull praise him for that. And I bet if Tiger was twenty two years old now, he'd be doing something like that.

Speaker 1

That is an interesting question. How would Tiger have pursued this kind of advantage in an era where there does seem to be, as you say, this leveling. So, yeah, that's very interesting. So we'll see where Scotti Scheffler falls in this, whether he can maintain his you know, sort of extraordinary run. I mean, he's obviously not going to

do it at this rate for uh forever. He's he's won four of his past six tournaments at this point, but he does seem a step ahead right now, and so the interesting question will be how long can he maintain that? And once he gets to a certain level of fame and greatness, is he going to really want it no matter the cost?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think the one he does seem to have like a pure joy for playing and even the competition he likes it and and that's that's wonderful. And he has he has a nice humility about him that tells him, you know, I'm not there yet. I got to keep improving. So he's on that you know, kind of that improvement ethos that I think is the healthiest way to go

about playing golf. It's like, you know, no matter what you achieve, to stay in the process, that keeps you improving, and that takes care of so many things because you get the joy of whether the result, whatever the result is, you know, you got better and and that's you know, as long as he's got the joy for the game, that that's gonna that's going to provide the energy. I think until that leaves us. Hope it doesn't leave him, but inevitably, you know, number one is wearing on people.

I don't think anybody's worn it that well for a while. You know, it's it's it seems like it's taking its toll on most of the guys that get up there. Let's hope he doesn't, you know, he sometimes somehow becomes sort of an exception to that.

Speaker 1

Well, Haimi, it is always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for spending a portion of your evening with me. Hope to see you on Golf Channel again soon.

Speaker 4

Thanks Eric, it's very stimulating talking to you. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 1

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Bob Crosby interview

I am here with Bob Crosby. Bob is a golf historian and an authority on golf course architecture, as well as an Atlanta resident. And Bob, I understand that you were out at the Masters this past week for at least one day. What was your what was your general approach during that day? What did you see? What did you do?

Speaker 4

Well?

Speaker 3

First of all, thanks, I'm delighted to be here with you. I wanted to see the changes to eleven, which everybody's been talking about, and some of the changes on three, more subtle changes there, and just generally to see the golf course. I've been there many many times, been lucky enough to play it several times. And then I visited with my father. Since nineteen fifty nine or sixty or something. It did a long, long, long time.

Speaker 1

What's the first Masters that you saw?

Speaker 3

First Masters I saw? I was in nineteen sixty with my father. We drove over. I grew up in Athens, Georgia. We drove over to Augusta one morning, as I recall, we went to the ticket office and bought a day pass, walked in and he wanted My father was a very good golfer and he wanted to see Bob Jones. So we went into the practice area and watched Bob ben

Ben excuse me, Ben Hogan warming up. And it was just before they had bleachers there, and I think we were standing maybe ten yards away from him watching him hit balls to his shag boy, who didn't have to move at all. By the way, while we while we were standing there watching him, this old tricycle golf cart pulls up and it's Bob Jones with his with his arthritic fingers, with a cigarette holder threaded through his fingers, and he too stood there, sat there with and watch

Ben Hogan hit golf balls for twenty thirty minutes. It was to this day a distinct memory, wonderful moment. We want. We followed him for several holes. I forget how the day ended. We had to get back home, but it was just a remarkable, remarkable visit.

Speaker 1

Wow, that is something else, all right. Well, as much as I'd love to keep talking about that, we should maybe focus on this latest experience out at Augusta National. You were starting to describe what you did during the day, so you wanted to see the changes to eleven, et cetera. What were some of the things that you saw out there.

Speaker 3

Yeah, can I would like to give you my hot take on eleven, along with everybody else's hot.

Speaker 1

Take on We're all about hot takes here.

Speaker 3

But I also wanted to talk from a historian's point of view about Augusta National's architecture, and let me start with eleven. I think it's a bit of a mess. You can almost see the powers that be at Augusta National thinking through those changes. Somebody said, well, you know, the up and downs when people bail out to the right of the green are just too darn easy, So let's build a swale in there make it more difficult for them to get up and down from that sort

of a sort of little bail shot. And then you can hear somebody saying, well, yeah, but if we're going to make that harder, then we've got to sort of expand the fairway, take some of those trees out. And I think that's sort of what they did. A marker for me of a dubious golf architecture is when you see catch basins for drainage, and there's a new catch basin built in that swale on the right side of the green now, and there's also a catch basin built.

Maybe there's more than one built for the new expanded fairway area over there by those sort of three orphan trees.

Speaker 1

Right along the right there. There's some recontouring and and it feeds down to a catch basin.

Speaker 3

If there are catch basins and something I don't think is quite right now. Maybe that's not always the case, but any rate, I think it's a mess. What's particularly infuriating to me is that you have a drawing for that hole done by the best golf architect ever to trod the face of the earth. Just use his drawing, put the center line bunkers back in, take the damn trees out. You need to push the te's back as they have done. That's great, and you could even push

them farther back if you wanted to. But use McKenzie's drawing for the hole. Now you know, the original hole had a green on the other side of the tenth tenth green, so it was actually played as a slight dog leg right, But the same idea would work from the existing teas and just use them every time I

come to Augusta. My thought is that they have spent so much time and effort trying to are meant to be scare quotes improving the golf course over the years from George Cobb to Robert Trent Jones to Perry Maxwell, etc. I don't you have a great, great golf course there?

I do note it's an interesting paradox that one of at least to my knowledge, one of the earliest attempts to restore an original architect's work was conducted at Augustin National by Byron Nelson and Joe Finger when they restored the Eighth Green after that horrendous, horrendous mess that I guess it was cliff Roberts.

Speaker 1

Who was It was Clifford Roberts, Yes, yeah, yeah, Well so just to give people a picture around the eighth Green, are those incredible mountains and those a version of those was originally there in nineteen thirty four, that was Mackenzie and Jones's idea for the whole and then in the fifties Clifford Roberts decided to completely eliminate those mounds, I guess to open up sightlines for spectators, and what ended

up being produced just looks absolutely absurd. But it stayed there for about twenty years until the club decided to restore in nineteen seventy nine. I think it was. And you're making the great point that this is an early instance of restoration. Right.

Speaker 3

In fact, I'm having trouble. I'd love to anybody who watches this if they know of an earlier instance where somebody consciously restored an architectural feature of a golf course to take it back to the original design. I can't think of another instance earlier than this, but maybe they're out there. But it's a remarkable in and otherwise not so happy architectural history. This is a bright shining moment.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah, And as you're indicating, some of the best changes that Augustin National has made in the modern era have been to take the core back to what it was. You know that the changes to restore the mounding around the eighth Green have obviously completely improved that hole. It was ridiculous for a couple of decades, and the best move was to restore what was there before, and they did that now with eleven. I think that people were

sort of excited. I was sort of excited about what was happening there because they were removing trees on the right. That hole had become very narrow, it had become just sort of like keep it out of the trees on the drive. That was the big challenge. Now it's one of the easiest fairways on the on the course to hit and and so it's a positive change in the

sense that some trees have been eliminated. But as I heard you suggesting, there was a kind of there's there's a sort of design by committee feeling about what happened at the eleventh hole. Right, It's like, okay, let's remove trees, but now let's keep like three of them just standing there in the right half of the away, you know, et cetera, et cetera. It seems like there are a lot of compromises and a lot of different voices contributing to the work there. I don't have any information about

how it actually happened. That's just the feeling I get from looking at it.

Speaker 3

I agree it has all the earmarks of a committee compromise of some sort. Log let's let's ground off this, this finished this meeting, let's agree to do this, and they that's what they do. And you know, the the the the maddening part to me about walking around the course a couple of days ago is that given the architectural the significant and a very important architectural history of this golf course. Why they haven't hired somebody with some

understanding of that history to redo holes as necessary? And you know, there are any number of people out there that no McKenzie like the back of their hand, Tom Doak, Whore, Crenshaw would be wonderful. They are all sorts of people that could do this work. Crimshaw hell is a member on the tournament twice.

Speaker 1

I mean it would seem to be an obvious choice, like hit me on the head?

Speaker 3

What am I missing here? It just it's uh and a and a keen student of the game. I mean, it's just it's remarkable. And that's the part I just don't get. I mean, they've been through now Fassio and I guess bo Welling and others who don't have a track record of doing a lot of restoration of Golden age golf courses use them. They're out there and if a course deserves them, it's this course. Augusta National is

an incredibly important American golf course historically. I was rereading the other day The Spirit of Saint The Spirit of Saint Andrews, written at about the same time that the Mackenzie was designing Augusta. And it's a remarkable book when you read it in that context because Mackenzie, by the way, and just parenthetically, he mentions my man John Lowe about

ten times. He's a big fan of John Lowe. But the interesting thing about the book as it relates to Augusta National is that, and this is my take on the book, and I'm happy to argue about it with somebody if they want to, is that he identifies an early stage of golf, strategic golf architecture, developed first by low and then taken on by Harry Colt, Tom Simpson, Fowler and others, and they woking and he talks all the sunny to all the famous newly designed or redesigned

courses that pop up in the teens and then many many more in the nineteen twenties. The interesting thing about the book, though, is I think Mackenzie thought that there was another stage, and that Augustine National evidenced that second stage of strategic golf architecture. And that stage was basically that we are going to emphasize less bunker placement and more on contours and undulations of the natural terrain. Bob Jones was the perfect boss for that because he got it.

I'm going to come back to that in a minute, but you know, if you've seen the story, Mackenzie's first plan for Augusta National was to He submitted it with thirty six bunkers. Jones said, no, too many, I want you to go back to twenty. They ended up on twenty two. I don't know how they got there, but twenty was ridiculously few bunkers. But the idea there was that by making the difficulties of the course linked to the contour and undulations of the land, I can do

two things. That makes it much harder for really good players because it's lesstable, but the dreaded bunker shot for the weaker players is is less frequent, and it makes the course, and in fact it is a course it's a delight to play by. I'm a high single digit handicapped player. It's a delight for me to play from the regular immensities, but it just beats the hell out of the pros. And I think it has to do with that emphasis on contour and undulation and less emphasis

on bunkers. And that was the second stage of golf architecture that I think Mackenzie envision. Now. He dies a couple of months before the first Masters, in the middle of the Great Depression. World War Two follows on. Nobody has any money, no golf courses are being built. But I think, but for those historical events, if the world had continued on as before, I think Augusta Nashville would have changed the face of golf architecture for the next

couple of decades. That is the that is the heritage that the people at Augusta National I don't think quite get. They see it. I think as just a venue for a major championship, geared all in all sorts of ways to the to to the play of to the best players in the world. But the role the place of Augustin National in the hit in the history of American

golf architecture is extraordinarily important. And as you start tweaking it and mucking around with it, you start deluding what is on the ground there and its significance for golf architecture going forward. One can I say one other thing. Absolutely, I was doing some research on this a couple of months ago, and to my pleasure and surprise, I discovered two things. First, in the late nineteen twenties and early nineteen thirties, Merefields, Sunningdale and all sorts of other courses

over there were going through the same process. They were debunkering their courses. Mierfield went from three hundred and twenty bunkers in nineteen thirty one to something like one hundred. But all the courses were going through this debunkering on more or less the same grounds that let's just let the contours take over, and they are harder for good players to deal with, but easier for bad players to

deal with, and it sort of squares the circle. The other interesting thing is that the unique features of Augusta National have a pedigree in America, and that pedigree is two courses. Maybe I'm missing some I'd love to hear about others. One is Max Bear's Lakeside in Los Angeles.

Parts of that course were washed out by big floods and others will know more about the details of the course that But Mackenzie thought it was one of the great in the spirit of s Andrews thought it was one of the great courses in America, and he noted it had very very very few rough areas and relatively few bunkers. All of the ones he had were big. I mean, what does that sound like The other course that was an immediate predecessor, well, really two Crystal Downs.

Arguab was one two. That's nineteen twenty nine. But the other course that no longer exists is Bayside.

Speaker 1

A lost course, a lost course.

Speaker 3

But I found some articles from New York journalists that were shocked, shocked at the paucity of bunkers there, and that so much of the interest and strategy of the course depended on mounding and land features. And it could read like early reviews of Augusta National, and it's Mackenzie's course. It may have been sort of a test run for Augusta National in some respects for Mackenzie. It was built as a public golf course, not as well finished probably

as Augusta National. But that aspect of Augusta National needs to be retained. And I worry, in the name of more traditional concepts of how to make a course difficult, that those approaches to golf architecture are being overrun by those more traditional ideas that bunkers here, bunkers, They are bunkers everywhere, Augusta has a unique place in architectural histories and was not just the culmination of a golden age of golf architecture, it was also the beginning point for

a new kind of golf architecture. It built on that and that's what to me, that's the debt Augustine national O's to golf history is keep that new window it was trying to open on golf architecture open somehow, you know them. Course Mackenzie designed was strategic golf architecture on LSD. It was wild boomerang greens, wild bunkering here and there, crazy contours. Look at the fifth green, look at the fourteenth green, the ninth green. I you could go on

to the greens. I mean, you know, I'm going to make you play. If you're a good golfer, you're going to have to deal with unpredictable bumps, humps and rolls, not just in the fairways and they're plenty of the fairways, but especially on the greens. And you've got to put your ball in the right place or you're gonna three put. And I don't have any sympathy for it. I have no obligation to you to make sure you too, put

from any point in the green. There may be places where you hit your ball where you have no chance to putting. And that's fine. That's fine, And that's the edgy nature of Augusta National is what they I hope they can keep and in some cases roll back to I think it'll hold up beautifully against the best golfers in the world. Just get the teas back. There's no

choice about that. Just push the teas back. And that's what every time I get in the car after being an Augusta National, I turned to my wife and I say, you know this needs this is an important The building of this course was an important historical event and we

need to recapture that moment. Where they need to recapture that moment somehow, and hiring somebody to come along and fix this tweak that in the name of holding scores down or keeping scores up for various holes is just the wrong approach.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think people forget how radical Augusta National was when it first opened, and that's sort of the heritage that gets lost when the Masters and Augusta National Golf Club become as they have institutions.

Speaker 3

It was exactly it was intended as a radical extension of the ideas of strategic golf course architecture, unlike anything anybody had seen before. So when you're out there and you fire up that Caterpillar D six and start plowing away at stuff, you know, give pause to the history you're working on, because I think Mackenzie would be spinning in his grave. That edgy version of Augustin National is

under threat of being lost forever. And the changes at eleven just it was like somebody hit me with a baseball bat said, oh god, this is worse than I thought.

Joseph LaMagna interview

Speaker 1

All Right, So I'm here with Joseph Lamanya, a regular guest on the Frida Egg podcast. Joseph is the founder of Optimal Approach Golf, and he has a great mind for statistics and for golf in general, so we thought we would add his perspective to the others we've gotten for this episode. Joseph, how you doing. I'm good.

Speaker 2

Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1

It's a good weekend. Yeah, did you take on the fire hose of content? Were you absorbing all weekend long?

Speaker 2

I was, that's I'm sure this this take is not unique to me. But the Master's website is so good that basically from sun up to sundown you can watch a bunch of golf shots. So I was taking advantage of that.

Speaker 1

No, it's it's incredible, like how many rabbit holes it provides you, Like you can spend effectively an unlimited amount of time exploring different, like specific things of interest.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and you even get some good audio until it gets scrubs off, scrubbed off the site, you know, if it gets particularly colorful.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly, all right, So Joseph, why don't we start with one big takeaway that you had from the weekend.

Speaker 2

Sure, Yeah, I was thinking about this a lot after watching Scottie win. Elite short game is not something that It's not to say that no players on tour have elite short game, but most of the players who have elite short game on tour have a gap in their games somewhere else. So somebody like Cam Smith, right, he wasn't the best driver of the golf ball, didn't hit it that far like a little bit errant elite short game, Well, he adds distance and he starts getting into contention all

the time. Somebody like Patrick Reid, some of the best short game on tour not an elite ball Striker hasn't been driving it particularly well, but when he does, I mean, he's won a significant number of times on tour. And so we might have somebody in Scotti Scheffler who has elite short game, his chipping's been incredible and also checks a lot of those other boxes, hits it far, hits

it relatively straight off the tee. It's exciting that we might have somebody who kind of is so well rounded in a way that very few other players on the planet are. So maybe I should have seen the Scotty Scheffler coming a little bit more than I did, And I think that's true of a lot of people in the golf world who, you know, obviously didn't see him ascending the world number one as quickly as he has.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I mean, this was a question I posed to Heimi, and it's like, what is it about Scotty Scheffler that really sticks out? Because usually when you have a player who goes on a run like this, you can identify a particular skill where they are ultra elite. You know, Rory and his driving, Brooks Koepka and his power, et cetera, et cetera. With Scotty, there does seem to be a

particular well roundedness. But elite short game, as you're saying, does seem to be one thing that the rest of his game kind of revolves around or is built off of.

Speaker 2

Right And again you could get into like a sort of a random player. But Seewu Kim right, elite chip are the golf ball, one of the best in the world. Not a great putter, not particularly long off the tee, but he's won on tour, including a Players Championship. And when you have that elite short game, you just turn a lot of bogies into pars.

Speaker 1

If you don't have.

Speaker 2

Elite short game, when your ball striking is not quite there, you make some sloppy bogies. It's cool to watch Scotty Scheffler when he's hitting the ball really well. He might not even need to lean on it, but when he does need to lean on it, it's there. And I think that's what we'll see how much that persists into the future. But if he truly is an elite chipper, we could be looking at somebody who's a stalwart of the top five in the official World Golf rankings.

Speaker 1

Do you have any observations about Rory's performance this week.

Speaker 2

I hate to be a bit of a downer. I'm a little tired of the Rory Like what if Rory goes out in thirty takes? Like at some point he's got to win. He hasn't won in a decade. I was impressed he's been playing really well, but it feels like, in particular golf Twitter in the media is trying to will him to this win and he just hasn't done it.

So like to be celebrating as much as he was when he hold out a bunker shot to finish and you know, runner up like that's Tiger Woods would never have been doing that in his prime, right, Like the expectation should be to win. So I don't want to hate on Rory. That's less of a Rory take and more of a the way we treat Rory take. But maybe I'm just a little tired of some of those the social media around Rory.

Speaker 1

Rory coming right right, Like I like.

Speaker 2

Him, but he's got to win at some point. And that's where I want to give the credit to Scotti Scheffler.

Speaker 1

He's doing it. Yeah, I mean, I would be as happy as anyone to see Rory put in a spectacular Sunday performance at the Masters and win. But the thing is he didn't really have much of a chance yesterday. That's that's sort of an underrated thing his at least on according to Data Golf's probabilities yesterday, he peaked at

five percent. That was his peak, and that was after the fourteenth hole and he went on to go par par on fifteen and sixteen, which we're playing relatively easy that day, and so listen, like, it was great that he shot that score. It was an incredible round, but he really wasn't that close and people are acting like he was close, and so I'm with you on that.

Speaker 2

Actually, yeah, I'm just a little jaded by it, I guess. And when I think about major championships over the last five years and thinking about Rory McElroy, my main memories are like him trying to make the cut at an Open Championship and an impressive fourth round, where right, he never really had a chance to win, Like, I'd just like to see him do it. He has every skill that you need. He's another one of those really well

rounded players. He's playing great right now, Like, just go do it, and then I'll be happy to celebrate when he does.

Speaker 1

All right, So golf course takes. We heard from Bob Crosby about some of the historical questions that Augusta National faces in considering whether to restore golf holes and you know, take things back to how they were, but there's a separate set of questions about how these holes play in competition. And so do you have any analysis in that arena that you came upon this this past week?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think similar to how players say every time they play at Augusta they learn something new. Just in watching Augusta every year, I've come to appreciate it more and more. I think it's as close to a perfect test as we get. That's not to say everything plays perfectly, but I think, especially off the tee, it is the

best test we see all year. And what I really appreciate about it is how there are certain holes where a particular shot shape is required, and there are certain holes where a particular shot shape is rewarded not necessarily required. So I think my favorite example is whole thirteen. We're

all familiar with that hole. You really do need to curve that ball right to left off of the tee, and especially in modern golf, almost all of the elite ball strikers hit a cut off the tee, and so to see them have to work the ball right to left is exciting. The best example I can give you is Justin Thomas really doesn't have that shot. It's been his worst hole at the Masters since he started. This year, he was the only player to finish in the top ten who didn't make a single birdie on that hole.

He put one way left I believe three in the pine straw right. If you don't have that shot, it's limiting, and there aren't very many other places on tour where you see that. So I really appreciate that about Augusta. Even a hole like ten, if you can curve it right to left and take it down that left side, you get a pretty significant advantage because it rolls out

a lot. More so, it's Augusta just demands so many shots of players that you don't see pretty much any other time through the whole year.

Speaker 1

And it's a complicated question, I feel, because some of those T shots that you're talking about thirteen and ten in particular, what makes those T shots exacting right now? What forces players to work the ball right to left on both of them in an uncomfortable way is when it comes down to it, trees right, I mean on ten, there's some influence of this. Yeah, if you get over

to the left, you roll out a little bit. You also have like the green cants pretty significantly as well, and it's a little bit better to be down there and not be hitting down the slope of a green. But as you've observed a number of times, these kinds of angles matter a bit less when players are hitting it as high as they do now. But thirteen, certainly the influence on that shot is those trees out to the right. You've just got to avoid them. And in order to avoid them, you need to bend the ball

around the trees to the left. And so you know, if you take out the trees, the holes are resemble quite a bit more their historical predecessors. But if you take out the trees, then this factor that you're talking about goes away.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it brings me no pleasure as somebody who appreciates golf course architecture to say that angles don't make a huge difference on the PGA Tour. But the reality is, these guys just hit it so high so much spin that angles generally don't matter a whole lot on tour, and a huge part of Another part of the reason for that is scoring really starts to happen when you hit the ball inside ten feet, and so you're not hitting it inside ten feet that high of a percentage

of the time anyway. So a lot of shots with a lot of spin that are high that go to twenty feet are ideal shots on tour, and you don't necessarily have to have a perfect angle.

Speaker 1

To do that.

Speaker 2

So I'm fine with width and trees as a way of making angles matter a little bit on tour, and Augusta does it so effectively.

Speaker 1

All Right, Joseph, thank you so much for these takes. Appreciate it and we'll definitely have you back on the podcast soon. Sounds good.

Speaker 2

Thanks for having me, Garrett, Appreciate it.

Speaker 3

Com

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