Superintendent Series: Tom Feller on Cedar Rapids and Tree Management

Welcome back to another edition of the Friedagg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by Toro Golfers get custom fit clubs for longer, straighter shots. Now, using the adjustable technology on Toro's new green Master one thousand series walk green mower, superintendents can dial in operator performance for precise,

Find my ball in a fried egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg bride egg lie, I'm about ready to run.

Off of the course. What do you have for breakfast this morning?

I don't eat breakfast, really, no, what do you wait? Wait? I have a sixteen hour fast until lunch. No way daily. Yes, what time's lunch eleven to twelve, so.

You get your full hour in Yes, what do you do? You drink coffee then in.

The morning, I do drink coffee, coffee and water.

Coffee and water. Yes, it's like and then, so you only eat lunch and dinner exactly. Really works for you, Huh.

I'm not sure it works for me, but I'm doing it.

People say breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Maybe do you like breakfast food?

Not necessarily No, No, Eggs just don't agree with me. So you know, I walk by it every morning to get my coffee in the convenience store and pass right past the egg biscuit.

So you get coffee at the convenience store. I do every morning, every morning, same one, same one, roughly the same time.

At roughly the same time it has. It changes a little bit in the winter time.

Okay, so they know you there, they do know me there.

Yes, it's a block from my house. I should make it at home, but it's just too easy to stop and get.

Yeah, it saves you ten minutes, for sure, it does at that time in the morning. Yep, you're spending what you would be eating for breakfast, exactly right. So how often do you walk the golf course.

During the season? At least three times a week. I find that it just, first of all, it gets me some exercise, which I enjoy. I can kind of follow up my staff in the morning as they go out check on things. You know, I can check on what is happening that's going right, and what's happening that's going wrong.

Basically, you have like a time that you walk. I do.

So normally we'll start the crew, my assistant will start the crew, and then we go we Normally I'll normally go out like six thirty and I know they go I'll change it up. But a lot of times I go backwards because I follow up on what they've gotten accomplished in the morning.

Okay, so you'll go buck eighteen.

Eighteen and go backwards and you're looking at what they're doing, and then exactly and then kind of you know, helping my assistants line up the second job for the day.

What uh, what's one thing that you've noticed on like one of these walks that sticks out.

You know, It's it's amazing just even the simple things that don't get accomplished. You know, you tell your tea service crew or a tea service man or woman to fill the dibbots and pick up the t's and clean up the entire tea complex, and you find that they're just filling half the dibots, or you follow up your pin setting guy and you know, you tell them that, you know, I recommend ten to twelve feet from the from the collar, but it's got you know, he's eight

But it gives you a feel for the golf course.

It does, I mean, and I enjoyed this. I enjoy walking just because of you know, I love setup. You know, the morning set up, the T blocks set perfectly, the rakes and the bunkers, you know where they're set around the bunker. You know, there's a set arrangement for everything that we have, and it's just kind of nice to follow up with those kind of things.

What's your set arrangement for the bunkers?

Typically the rakes go parallel to the fairway and outside the bunker, outside outside, and they should normally they'll be on you know, the outside edge of the fairway.

So I feel like that's some kind of a big hot topic.

It is, I would agree.

Everybody does it a little different.

Along with your membership. Regardless of the rule, they will leave them in the bunker, out of the bunker, or across the fairway. It just depends on what kind of shot.

There is that your pet peeve, the bunker rake leaving the way they leave.

My biggest pet peeve and all my all the people that have worked for me will say, it's how to set the tea blocks up. I can't. I just every time we set up te blocks, and every time I'm on the tee, I will at least move a third of the t blocks because I just like to change the setup from day to day. And a lot of times they'll either move them like a foot or two

I agree with that. So like you move them drastically different.

I do, and even to sometimes different teas. I mean, just to change the setup.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, do you it?

What's the most crazy you've gotten? Have you ever moved one a back t in front of a different tea?

I've I've moved a back t all the way to the forward t. So it'll play from one fifty five and we'll drop down to one ten. And as long as you know, from the handicamp standpoint, as long as you're the same with the other te blocks, I think you're okay.

So that all the other box would have to move move up for also, that's I like that.

Yeah, I just like changing it up. And I and my assistants always give me such a hard time because they'll go set up. I'll even have them set up and they'll get in and then I'll come in, you know, an hour later after you walk on the cars and I'll be like, well, how many blocks did you move? It's just one of my biggest pet peeves.

One of the best things is to have day to day variety. I agree, and it's amazing because people are creatures a habit. They just hate change. Do you ever get members that push back when you move something way up.

Oh, we've had comments on it like must you know either, you know, especially on te blocks if you move them to a different tea, they'll be like, well, it must have had a new guy start today where I was the one that did it, you know, those type of things. But the pin places are what they really get. You know, if you get kind of crazy with the pin placements from day to day, they they'll comment on that, how it must have been a bad night last night for the superintendent.

You know, No, no, you know, everybody's always got an opinion, they exactly. And most people that are members of country clubs are very successful in life, so they, you know, there used to being the opinion that matters most of most of their life's activities.

I would agree with that one hundred percent.

How did you get into turf and becoming a golf super did you? Were you a golfer growing up? Or so?

I grew up in small town island northeast corner of Iowa in Wakan and we grew up a block away from the nine hole golf course that was in town, and I basically was the superintendent's nightmare up there. I was out at six point thirty in the morning, playing in the dew, wondering why the greens weren't cut, wondering

You were always an early riser.

Always an early riser being now where.

You were the person that was out with the crew early, and you know, wondering why stuff wasn't mode and everything in terms of how you would communicate with membership that wants to get out earlier. Golfers say you were a public course and golfers that want to get out early and push, What kind of effect does that have on your crew if you're you know, being disrupted.

Yeah, I wouldn't even say what. I won't say what it has to do with the crew as much as what it has to do with the membership, because they're just they're not getting the conditions that they deserve. If we're getting pushed on the golf course too early, so you know they're out playing and the bunkers aren't getting raged. We can't stay ahead of them with the greens mares.

And for some people if they're like they guess stuff going on at home, they're just the mission of the round early in the morning is just to get done as fast as possible.

Absolutely, and we still have trouble. I mean they started at six thirty here on Saturday mornings, and we'll have guys get done at nine.

So you guys are starting in the dark.

Oh yeah, four five, five o'clock and we run off the front and back just to keep ahead of them.

M How long did you live in Myrtle Beach then?

Is there two years?

How how was working down there? Did you then come back up to I did so.

I went from Myrtle Beach to Quincy Comfort Club in Quincy, Illinois.

Yeah. So what was it like, you know with Bermuda and obviously you know, Myrtle Beach the probably most rounds per capita of any place in the world.

Yeah, it was crazy, Uh, I would First of all, I was there when Hurricane Hugo came through, so we had, you know, a thousand trees I went down. I mean it was a whole different ball game. The first year I was there was prior to prior to Hugo and you know, it's a little more enjoyable, I would say, but you still are dealing with bermuda. We had old pen cross mint grass, greens that were just struggled. You know, you had issues, salt water issues, salt issues in the water.

So you were there the two years you were getting the degree, you were working, and you were going to school at the same time. Yes, what kind of like what was your schedule like then early morning? Then you'd go to school after you're done.

Or the beauty of their program is they they basically had you in a job before you even had your class schedule. So you would get your you would get your job, and then you'd work your class schedule around it.

I was.

I had quite a few credits already when I got down there, so I really had a pretty easy life down there as far as school went. So I worked thirty hours a week and then went to school also, you know, but they really on the job experience is huge. I mean, I think they really stress that. And you know, I worked for a superintendent assistant assistant down there. The assistant was from storm Lake, Iowa, so that was kind of our connection. So a lot of the Iowa guys

As as somebody now that hires, you know, young assistant superintendent. It's different. How do you how do you value education versus, you know, the versus you know, on the job training versus because obviously you've got superintendents that run the gamut of technical two year degrees to you know masters.

Sure, you know, I wouldn't put you know, I had a two year degree and then I went and finished my four year degree just from a mark, He's just from my own professional I just wanted to do it, just to have it. And I would encourage guys now to get their four year degree just because of the market the way it is but really, from my standpoint, for an assistant, you know, you want them to have at least I would want them to have at least

How's you've been here for eighteen years? How's the hiring and labor changed in that time?

You know, I've from my standpoint, I haven't had too many issues. We've always had. I guess I've always had a good assistant base and always have had through my my kids through the high schools have always brought me help, it seems like, so I've utilized them. They're those two of my both my son and daughter, as a resource to get into the public school, into the you know, public school system, and once you get it moving and they enjoy their job and it just seems like they

Yeah, I mean what a job outside. I caddied growing up, and I would work. I've are the superintendent of the course I grew up at. So I was trying to get me to do the grounds thing, but I was I was caddying and working backroom. But I mean, it's nothing like being on a golf course early in the morning.

You know, it's the best way to start your day. And like and I'm flexible with the staff. You know, I hire enough guys that you can you know, you know, they got to go on a summer vacation. You know, they're going to have to have a long weekend to do things. So I'm flexible as long as we can have coverage for when they're gone, and we make it enjoyable.

Also, it's it's got to be the seasonality those tough because then they go back to school and it is I still.

Need work and for sure, I mean that's one of the tougher things are. You know, like the last couple of years, our spring and fall have been such a disaster. It seems like, you know, late spring, early fall, so you know, you haven't noticed it as much from a from a from a plane standpoint. I don't think the membership is known as you know I do, but it's we don't even have any golfer because you know, the heisman forty and the lows are twenty. So it's like

When when you go from you know, full staff in the summer and you say you lose your your the high school kids and you're a little shorter. What what are the areas of maintenance that go from like that? Are the nice to haves that get kind of cut definitely.

You know, bunkers are probably number one. I mean we go from raking them every day to raking them twice a week. You know, we're spinning them with a bunker rake versus hand raking them. We go from walk bowing greens to ride mowing. You know, I'd say those are the things that I notice the most, and especially on with the green complexes that we have. When you put a rider on them, you almost have to just back up and mow and back up and mo. You can't

The year, I imagine it's a little bit tougher to get it all the way out to the corners absolutely right, exactly, so you get run the risk of a little shrink.

Right, So in the spring every year in the spring we get out and cut them back out, get things back out to the edge.

How do you keep track of where they were? Do you do you like have them mapped or is there a way that.

I'm just I'm very I just mark them. I mean, I just go back out and I do it probably four times a year with this paint.

Well, you're walking all that and I see it. You know.

I'm very active on the golf course. I mean, I love being out there and seeing.

Do you play a lot?

I don't, but I would like to again. At some point I'm going.

To mentally, you could play while you're walking, Yes, I could. It's probably the best way to play golf.

Yeah, I think I've played. I think I played five times last year, so yeah, and I played here twice. So I enjoy going other places and playing. But I find myself when I play here it's just too much work. And that's just all I do is think about I can't believe we miss that. I can't believe. You know, it's good for you. But it's also when I play golf. I like to enjoy the game, and I like to look at you know. I love to go to other courses and see what they're doing and get the full experience.

Yeah, I mean it's beneficial in the sense of like seeing how the playing surface is reacting right exactly and how different things are working, I would agree. And then but then going and seeing other people.

Stuff is good too, right, There's so many, so many good superintendents around and so many good clubs. I mean, you know, you never get around to all of them. But the connection we have with everybody, and what's nice about our professions. They always welcome you in. So you know, you can make a phone call to them and say, hey, do you care about come out and see your property and play it. And they're like, you know, just like I am to them. You know, I love to have them in.

Do you talk a lot with super times in the area. I do. And you help each other out.

Oh for sure, we even you know, especially in town and around town. We share equipment a lot of times. But just advice and what people have done. And you know what social media these days, you know, everybody's on Twitter and Instagram. You can see a lot of what's going on. If you notice something that find interesting, I just call them and say, hey, what what can you elaborate a little bit more on what you're doing with this?

What's it? An example of that?

Well, you know, it's it's everything. It's just even ways guys rafi fairways these days and drag the cores And I mean I saw some guy I think it was Rick Tagmarindi Morrin who's using palettes for a dragmat versus you know, a steel dragmat, because he said it was less aggressive. It's just simple little things that you wouldn't think of doing.

You know, did you start using the palette?

I did not, But we didn't get our fairways erified yet this fall either.

So it's interesting.

It is.

I imagine in terms of Twitter's change and social media has changed the superintendent industry a ton right exactly, because it's one of those you know, people lament social media so much, but the ability to share and spread information and knowledge is at an unparalleled height.

Now, oh for sure. I mean I scroll through and you can, and you know, you do it in the evenings when you just kind of boor it anyway and just roll through it and find something interesting and it's amazing what you can pick out.

Do you go to like the GIS Show? I do every year every year, and then you get to meet all your new internet friends.

Absolutely? Yeah, wait, I know most of them. I've been in the business for thirty years.

That's how my wife like, who are you talking to? I'm like, God, just an Internet front. It's become like a normal thing. It's kind of it's wild though, it is, it really is. Yeah, it's cool because I see it.

Right, I would agree one hundred percent. Yea, it makes it. It definitely makes it easier.

Yeah. Yeah. So when you were at Quincy, did you start as assistant there? I did, and it worked your way up.

I was the assistant for two years under Randy van Fleet, and then Randy left for Meryl Hills, and then they promoted me to the superintendent MARYL.

Hills in Wisconsin in Waukeshaw. Yeah this year. Oh right, Yeah, that's a cool property. It is.

He's been there well a long time, Nock, he's been there series Probably I'm.

Trying to figure out who designed that golf course. It's not Langford, but it's very length for it to ask.

Is it okay? Yeah, I've only been on at one time and that was early when he first moved up there.

I don't know. It could be like Harry Smeeter or Joe Roseman, but it's it's that places got a ton of ton of potential. That's it's neat. Well, you should go out there next time you're in there. Now for a quick word from our sponsor. Can you imagine a world where you know, when you were playing golf, you'd beat going down the fairway and there'd be hoof prints

I think time just flew going from assistant to superintendent because you were so I was so young. I was twenty six when I got the job, and I felt like I was just really in my mind, I was ready for it, but really I didn't have the experience. So I was learning on the fly a lot of times. And my poor assistant, Tim knows the superintendent down there, so he's deal with a lot of my He's finding a lot of things that I did. But I said,

What was the what was something that you look back and laugh about, like that you something you did that a process you had that like some.

Of the drain tile I did. It was just horrendous, but just way too shallow. And yeah, I look back, I'm like, could and he's ripping that some of that up right now, so I'm I'm hearing it from him. I'm like, oh, I hope he doesn't find that.

Yeah, a superintendent I know said that he ran into ran into a superintendent that had been at the club. He was at like forty years earlier, and the guy. The first thing the guy said was I'm sorry. I have to apologize. I'm sorry. And he's like for what? And he was like, I planted four thousand silver maples. He's like, it was my first job. I didn't know what I was doing. The club president said, plant these, and I planted up well.

And we had a tree nursery, which the club already had probably fifteen hundred so were maples. So I don't know why we need a tree nursery, but we had we had a tree nursery and Quincy. Then I came the property. I could say I learned something because then I moved here and we cut down the tree nursery.

So you know, see they had a tree nursery here too, they did. So what was the idea? Was it? You you took saplings or little trees and grew them to a certain height and then moved them and planted them.

Correct in any gap there was Oh my god, yeah that was That was a system here in Quincy. That really wasn't the system. They just want us to have trees because they had. They just want to have us to have a nursery because they had so many silver maples, and you know, every year you get storms and you'd lose you know, ten or twelve, so they'd want us to plant twenty for those ten. You know.

Basically, it's a crazy thing because for a long time, trees were considered like a sign of a country club, like the public courses didn't have trees. It was like a nice to half.

Yeah, I would agree, see you came here.

Then it would have been two thousand, two thousand or two thousand and one.

Two thousand and two, two thousand, January first.

Okay, And I mean, did you want to get back to Iowa? Was there you know, or was it this job came up and.

You know it was Yeah, I was a starting interview I was in Quincy for twelve years ten as is superintendent. So it was time I felt like my family was at the right stage of the game to move my kids and you know, just getting to the point where I just didn't know where else I could go with that with that job, so I was I started interviewing at places and actually had interviewed at Asheville in Asheville, North Carolina, so I really didn't have I want to go to a nice private country.

Club and uh one without Bermuda.

And one without Bermuda, And so that was up in the mountains enough that you know, it was like three thousand feet.

That was good.

It was all bad. Actually they had Bermuda fairways and they wanted to move to bent and so that's why they're interested in me. And then actually Cedar Rapids opened up right after that job, so yeah, I figured I was never ever going to get this close to home.

So what in terms of you come to Cedar Rapids and what's the first year a couple of years like are you are you just kind of learning everything about the club, like how's the transition into a new club?

Yeah, So, you know, they they really wanted to just they was tired of it being green and lush and just heavily forested.

You know.

They want some better playability. They wanted to dry out. I was always a guy that pushed it to the edge. Even in Quincy. I pushed it way to the edge. So I think they really wanted better golfing conditions to start with. And then they really wanted to go into a restoration and start interviewing architects. So that really caught my interest too, because I like to keep I'm a busy guy. I like to keep busy with especially with that kind of stuff. So I knew that the turf was,

I would say, were when we're like the agronomically, what were the toughest things that you face coming in? Took play in trying to push to get to where you wanted it.

It was so lush. I mean, I don't know how much fertility threw on it. I really didn't have any records of his fertility, but I couldn't not get the plant to stop growing, and so it was almost before you know, the growth regulators were out, you know, the good ones anyway, So once we could start, once I finally went through you know, three years of not for no fertility on fairways especially, we finally got into thin out and lean up.

A little bit, like was there a lot of thatch in organic?

So we had to go into heavy gerification and then just slow the plant down.

What when you're going through what was heavier erification schedule?

I mean for us was twice a year just heavy glorification, big one, the big ones, you know, three quarter to seven eighths and it's times and just in the needst chop him up and blow everything off, you know, and so you just do that spring and fall is when we would do it.

And how how many years did it take to get to a point where you really felt good about I'd.

Say by the fourth year we were we had it pretty much under control, and then we could start going into my own program. As far as you know, my heavy fertility of maybe a pound a year of.

Much much the local fertilizer probably was unhappy, No, he was not happy. It's it's the club in two thousand and two was pretty ahead of the curve for wanting that type of playing condition and looking at restoration. What

Sure. I would say that had a really strong green committee at that time. They traveled well. They understood that we were the only ross course in the state of Iowa. They thought that I don't think they understood it to the way we did it this time, but you know, this past this finally getting through the restoration. I don't think they were that far into it, but they understood that we needed to get back to that old ross look,

So talking through the early days, you come in, you got you inherit green course, very lush, probably lots of water put down on it, lots of trees. You start making changes. What was the initial reaction like.

Oh, we had some definite kickback. I mean there was you know, why, you know, why aren't you watering what? You know, we have an irrigation system. It's and then we put a new irrigation system in two thousand and eight, and they're like, you don't even use it. I mean, I said, well, it's just the way. I mean, think about how it's playing today. We're not killing the grass. I mean, it's the turf's in great shape like you

It was like, so we ripped out that, you know, those just in terms of those flower beds, Yeah, I just moved into a house and we planted flowers and I had to take care of the flowers all summer. Like it was not easy. Like in terms of a maintenance crew, what for flower beds, that's a lot of hours of maintenance over the course of a year, right.

Well, you have a full time horticulturist and then the flowers on top of that. You know, it's seventy five thousand dollars a year just in labor and in the flowers itself. And I know it's beautiful, you know we have around the clubhouse. It's beautiful right now. But we're doing it for you know, eighteen thousand dollars a year.

I mean that's I mean an the amount of work you could get done with that money on the golf course, which is why everybody joined here exactly is you know, it's just huge difference.

I would agree.

So you sent out a lot of emails. Did you try anything else in terms of communication?

You know, I'd just be around the membership, you know, I just try to make myself more visible. I guess during those times anyway.

How did it start to change? As you guys kept going and you've got years into your work, I.

Did just start to enjoy the golf course, like, Wow, I'm hitting my drive two fifty instead of two hundred. This is kind of crazy, you know. I just I feel like that's the game change for them. A little bit they started to enjoy it and see that Boyd is making a difference. And then you get a rain, and you know the rain would green things up, but yet you wouldn't be flooded because of it being too wet.

I imagine. Then also getting people used to seeing grass that's not really green absolutely just where spots aren't perfect. It's just you know, it's almost like the justification, yes, of things.

And so.

You guys then underwent doing you know, the full blown renovation in what year.

Was it twenty twelve? We approved the plan proved and then started in thirteen.

What was the process like that you guys went through and getting to that point before that you were ready to pick an architect and the club was ready to jump in.

Jump in, so we had we hosted town hall meetings to educate the membership. I'd say that was our number one communication, you know, and then just moving forward with trying to We picked up out three holes to start with that they were the most visible from the clubhouse, So we started on one, four, and ten and that way we figured that would make the biggest impact from from the membership standpoint. And then they want to move forward, and I think we were correct in all of that.

Yeah, it started small, It wasn't None of them were crazy changes either. Right as you know you and it's like you're kind of getting uncomfortable with everything.

I agree.

So in terms of you guys, uh were are working can continue to work with Ron Pritchard and Tyler Ray? What was it about what they brought to the table versus you know, the other architects that you looked at that you guys that made you feel really comfortable?

I think they just you know, Ron was very good when he came in for the presentation. Of course, his background was excellent. The courses we visited that he that he had finished looked, We're great from start to finish. Everybody we talked to at the clubs that he that he had finished or he had restored, were very complimentary of Ron and then Tyler, you know, just being able

You know. It's uh. So you guys went and visited some other Ross courses and a lot of did you do that with other architects that you looked at too?

We did not. We basically just went off, you know, I think they all drew a hole for us and what they would what they visioned for a hole on the golf course and present on that to us. And then we ended up going with Ron and so we once we you know, visited his courses. That's kind of where we ended up.

And and you guys went about you know, you see so many of the big name restoration renovations. Now you see your course is shut it down for two years, and you guys, you guys didn't shut down. You've done it over four years.

Roughly, you know, it was a three year but the roughest part was over three years.

Three, So you did it over three years, and you know, you did it for a dollar amount that you know, most clubs would you know, be amazed at how how did you guys a do it for such a low cost, I mean under a million dollars to basically get a brand new golf course.

I mean it was a lot of you know, basically we started with Tyler being able to shape everything and then my staff being able to be hands on during the whole project. So we did in the older months of the season, and you know, you had to have a membership that understood that that we're okay with it taking those three years, and also understanding that, you know, your maintenance levels are going to be lower because you're really your number one priorities to get this project completed.

You know.

That was this one for just a bunker style project. That's how we would handle it.

So you're talking like you're getting four, four or five holes done a year essentially.

Exactly, And well, yeah, I mean the first year we did three, and then we really went after the spring and you know we went basically went five and then nine. I mean the last year we really went strong.

For the staff, it had to be so fun.

Oh yeah, I mean there was definitely days. I mean, and we learned a lot through the project, just better ways to manage it and to be more productive than we were to start. So you know, I remember the first day doing doing some shaping and I said oh, our dump truck will be able to haul a the dirt. You know, we don't need to have a trailer. And then when he got done carving around Number one Green, I'm like, we need two trailers. I mean one dump

But that sounds like when you when you're moving and you're look and you're like, oh, we'll be done in like a couple hours, and it's like eight hours later and you're like, I still got a bunch of stuff.

That's exactly right.

With with bunkers, how did you guys go about the process of like drainage and whether you're doing a liner or one of the new you know better billy bunker or capillary.

So we just we didn't put liners in being that they're just pretty much grass faced. They're all fescuer around all rise octomius fescier around the outside edges. So and with the flat bottoms, I decided we didn't really need a liner, so basically we just drained them and put put sand in.

Pand and so it's just it's just you just got a drain edge at the bottom and no liner.

Correct, And it's a local sand came from thirty miles away. So you know, we paid like eighteen dollars a ton, and a lot of that was based on being in the floodplain. You know, I side it's not worth when you have these bunkers flood to then you have to

I mean, probably a fifth of the price of some of those. Oh it was for sure, yeah, I mean, and then the other thing is it looks like a course from nineteen oh four exactly.

In fact, Ronie even comment how it's almost a little too white for him.

So you know, ront leather, you know, give it, give it a summer and it'll be change the color will So you just touched on flooding. Obviously, Iowa is a very Floods happen here a lot. You know, you get these epic rainstorms and and then you got this rolling terrain with the golf course. What what are flood events like? And what did what did you guys do during the rest renovation process to address and help some of your flood issues.

Oh, we improved our We instilled all kinds of drainage and improved our drainage. And actually a lot of the bunkers really sit in lower is to collect the water and then discharge through the drainage system. So you know, Ron would always find these natural lows to put the bunkers in, and you know that would help when dewatering the golf course. And then we have we still have some swells to put in on a few of the

I imagine. One of the frustrating things from your standpoint with the flood the low areas is that the playing conditions you've got the property, you've got these this great you know, dramatic rolling hills up at the top. Then you go down to the low area and the river bed and those those the holes up top probably play so much differently after rain events than the bottom ones they do.

And in fact, but over the years, you know, there's been so much sand that has been brought in from the creek that actually they those bottom fairways been top dressed so much that they actually play pretty firm even after the water. I mean, it's amazing how dry those fairways can get down there. Now they will get localized a lot because of that, because all the same they get naturally top dressed every year.

What do you mean by localize, So.

You know, basically when you get real dry, you'll get these localized dryers that just happen, and they're a lot is because of sand top dressing. So you know, you have to go in and aerify them and try to get some way and agents on them to help push water through those profiles.

Gotcha. That's uh, it's interesting the natural It's almost like the floods bring stuff that's good for them.

And it changes, you know, over the years. You know, it's amazing how we put this new irrigation system in, or put the irrigation system in in two thousand and eight, and some of the heads now are maybe two inches below the surface because of just the sand and silt over the top.

That's crazy.

And you can try to sweep that all you want off, but you can never get to that.

How has that affected like approaches into greens at.

All, Not as much as I've noticed, because most of the greens are elevated enough to where it doesn't affect the approach. But it has affected areas along the creek, and it will affect your normal drainage swals too. You know that that helped the water. I mean those will get kind of filled up, so you have to make sure to grade those back out the way they.

Were, and I bet the water the way different ways water move have changed a.

Little bit, well for sure.

Yeah, that's a drainage is it's unbelievable.

I mean, you wish you could just you know, take it. You wish you could have a year to where you could just take a dozer and just create some nice drainage area, you know, swals and areas to where you know, water sits and not have to worry about putting the turf right back, you know, just just to help dewater.

You guys have done some of those. We have talk a little bit about the decision to do those, and I feel like so many people are so many clubs are afraid to do something like a area like a ditch or a area that takes the water on.

Yeah, so in between seven and eleven we did that. You know, seven needs to be real wet or what fair way anyway, and it had a pond, but then that's all really had. So we we eliminated the pond and created this this big loll that goes all the way back to the to the creek and basically it's set up for when there, when the water rises, it will fill in, but then it will it will flow out when the when the creek goes back down, but

It's worked really well. It has so you in the in the future that's you know's on my list here I've got with that ongoing work, you you guys are going to continue to add more and more of those we are. It's and then for most of the year, ninety year is just a a rough area just yeah, exactly. And and for you know, there's so many places with flood concerns, especially I think about local municipal golf where I'm from, and every single golf course was built in

Though. You know, if you can create those areas, I would highly recommend it. And every area of the golf course doesn't have to be perfect. I mean, it doesn't have to be manicured perfect. You can make those areas waste areas. You know, you can still play out of them. It's just I feel like when you don't do it, water just sits everywhere that it's not supposed to do or that you don't want it to.

It's been more effective than the pond.

Was absolutely why because it can flow out, Okay, the pond will still hold the water. And as the pond raises up and gets flooded, it's you know, nothing can drain into it. So as even though the creek will go down, the pond doesn't go down near as fast. And so now can dewater out into the creek versus be stuck into the pond?

Could you build more ways to get water into it? Also?

You could?

For sure that makes it because like with a pond, you can't have it. There's only so much earthwork you could do around it, right, exactly interesting, that's a lot of places probably could use it.

Yeah, and we could use more of it also.

Uh huh. So outside of that, what else? All right, you're you know, ongoing work. I imagine every time you take a walk you see seven more thank you want.

I mean, we still have some fairways a tie and we still have you know, bunker edges, some fairways of tie in to the bunkers where maybe we you know, we put the fescio around the edge, the leading edge going in the fairway where now we're going to you know, reduce that and make that bank grass going into them. Still have some trees here and there to remove just to help open up some vistas and just for lines of play. We have a bridge to replace. It's just

You know.

Still some car path removal. You know, we really haven't seen you know, for anybody out there that's scared of removing car paths, we really haven't seen much damage from removing the car pass and we've had and we've had two of the whatest years on records, So I mean, I just like them to scatter and drive wherever they want to. Basically, I think it helps and they stay away from the greens and tees. But uh, you know, we still have some car path removal. Uh, you know,

What in terms of the club, since you guys have done all this work, you know, the golf course has kind of undergone this transformation. Have you seen a culture change with with the people around the club. Do they understand more of what you're doing than to say, when you started in two thousand and two.

Oh for sure. I think especially in the last few years, they're seeing more and more of the changes that have made a huge difference. You know. We we've seen actually scores go down from the from the member tee than they were or to the restoration, so that that helps. I think just the you know, the highlights of where we stand today versus where we stood in two thousand and two from ratings and whatnot. I think, you know, people are really proud of to be a member here.

Have you seen anything from like the way they take care of the course they are there? Do you are they more mindful of of divots or ball marks or do they is there more walking or is there same amount of cart traffic as you used to have.

I'd say that I would I would say they've always been really good about taking care of the golf course. You know, you're always gonna have. They get more upset if you have an outing, which we don't thankfully we don't have a lot anymore, but they'd be upset if we had an outing and they didn't put there. You know, it's when you know, as your debts aren't being replaced and your ball marks aren't being fixed. But from a membership standpoint, they've always been really good about taking care

So you know, it's interesting that you would think that should be the opposite way, younger members more walking.

Right, yeah, right, yeah, it just doesn't fit them.

That's kind of ironic.

I like they, you know, they like to get out and have a good time, and they like to get around and and you know, especially you know, we have like a Wednesday night men's league that likes to have fun, and so they like to get as much Gothic as they can in three hours. So you know that's that's fun.

No, I agree you late night trying to squeeze in holes. I think we've all enjoyed the speed and which a cart can.

Guess You're around for sure exactly.

In terms that you just you've mentioned something about you do less outings than you used to do. Was that like a conscious decision by the club or.

Yeah, you know, I think we were just trying to keep it open for membership play. You know, it's uh less wear and tear, and I personally I feel that. I mean, if you're having six or eight or ten outings in town from you know, in town businesses, that it's limits maybe your membership just because they can come out and play ten times, you know, So I feel like, make it a little more exclusive. Maybe it creates a little better membership.

And they would. A lot of those happen on Mondays exactly, and that obviously limits what you can do correct.

And it does take care, It does take away from our maintenance because we are close till noon on Mondays for maintenance.

So your members can play afternoon afternoon Lincoln, Uh huh is that has that always been the case or is that that has been? Okay, that's it and so but that whole given that half a day, even without any play.

It's beautiful. I mean, you know, it's when we top dress, that's when we spray, and that's getting ahead of the getting ahead of the crowd, you know. And Mondays have gotten slower, it becomes slower just because of that. We'll get people after three maybe, but you know, they know that we're out there doing our thing, so they don't get out there too early on Monday afternoon.

That's good. That's good. So in terms of cedar rapidsly, you know the trees. Obviously you look at the before and after, it's a very shocking change. How did you get all the trees down and removed for low cost? Because I think that's obviously one of the big barriers is cost.

It is I had a really good assistant that wasn't afraid to cut down a tree and his back was about four feet wide. But we you know, I contracted out a lot of stuff around the greens, but everything basically from tea to green we did most of it in house, and so he was just got really good at it. And so you know, we'd run a chipper. We're fortunate to have a company in town that they remembers that really helped us out through the whole process, and so you know that they've always taken care of

You've taken out a ton tree. There's still a ton of trees. I mean, you guys have so many great majestic oaks. It would be absolutely And that's like the thing you're just the trees that are great trees are now more and more exposed, right.

Oh, no, mature properly, you know. It's I mean, the they never had any air or never any light to to really grow the way they were meant to grow. And so, uh, it was there all these trees are playing in amongst all the beautiful oaks. You couldn't even see them before.

That's the thing I think people get misconstrued so much, is like when you talk about tree management, it's not just clear cutting all the trees. It's no, it's allowing the great trees that have matured and that are indigenous to the area to show to shine.

You know, I would agree one hundred percent. I mean that's what we did. We were to specify which were which trees we needed to keep, I mean, which were the highlighted trees, and we'd keep those and then cut down the junk around them.

Basically, Yeah, it was there a moment when I mean, you've been working here for a long time, you're taking down trees, and you uncovered something that you didn't even realize. Like, were you shocked at how much the transformation changed the way you look at the golf course and property.

Oh for sure. I mean you vision it at first, and I think really when we started and finished one, four and ten, you saw kind of what you could really have. But until maybe the last three years, four years, it's really shined and you become so proud of what you never would have realized it.

You open up those those great long views and then that, I mean the stars, that topography that you just don't you know, see it at a lot of places. It's like kind of the unique trait characteristic you got here is this unbelievable setting, and you know, if it's not showing.

Right, And I mean I could tell you right now in two thousand and five, two thousand and four, I didn't take any pictures out here. I mean, no, I can't go out here on the morning and not take a picture. I mean, it's like it's just so beautiful. I mean taking photos from every angle. And in the evening it's beautiful, you know, as the sun's going down. It's just you get so many great photos.

Now, yeah, I think, I imagine, I don't know. Obviously you're not playing with the membership, but there is a much more sense of intimacy on the golf course as well, like where you're kind of in amongst everybody, you know, like you're not cornered off all the time, and all you can see what's going around you. You can see who's out on the golf course. And that's it's a club, it's a social you know, gathering spot.

Yeah, I hear, guys, you know, I'll hear guys from five Green yelling at guys on nine coming up. You know, where are you at? Where are you staying? You know, it's it creates creates a great game, you know, the conversation. And you know before it was just you know, line up every fairway with trees and try to isolate every hole, and it just creates I don't know, it's a whole different deal.

I wonder you probably could get some find some cool pictures of like, I don't know, I imagine a lot of people watch the club Championship out here. Oh, it's like the Club Championship in two thousand and four, like with all the carts and everybody out there watching versus like you know today, yeah, or you're.

Like our remember guests. It's just crazy when you see all the carts everywhere and people flowing everywhere, and it's you can get pictures from you know, the top of two, or you know down on three teen. You can go all the way across to five and fourteen you see people everywhere. Or I can go outside our shop on ten and take pictures across thirteen and eighteen and fifteen and see just traffic everywhere. You know, where. I mean, it's so cool.

It just exposes the scale of the place so much more too, because you see people climbing these big hills exactly to these greens, and you see the long view of how this landform just like flows into the green. It's just that's the cool thing that tree removal does.

Is it just and it opens it up and it creates I mean, honestly, I think it even creates different shots because of the wind, you know that they never had to deal with before, because now the trees are you know, minimize so much that they don't have that issue with the shade and the and the cover of the tree.

You know, agronomically, obviously, it had to make a big, oh, unbelievable. Yeah, it's you know, is there any green in particular that went from being essentially like a brutal to grow grass on them? Now it's like one of your best ones.

I'd say, you know, four two, four ten, those were our worst greens one number one, sixteen. I mean, I mean those greens were our worst greens. I remember them coming out of winter and they'd hold water, you know, water run over the top of them. I mean it was you know, they'd have all kinds of ice damage and water damage. Less ice damage, a lot less ice damage. Now no water really water doesn't sit on them anymore.

I imagine that the weather swing here, it's one of the most severe, you know, in terms of heat and cold.

And especially you know, you know, we go from sixty degrees to you know, last week rure below zero. So it's especially with old bent pole of greens like we have, you know, they but they're old perennial type of bent or a poe, so you know, the pole has adapted over the years to those to that environment.

So you've done a lot of expansions. How have you gone about grassing the greens, so.

They've the expansions were basically just core them out and then we just use plugs from the green to expand them out. Like the right side thirteen, we expand that out quite a bit, and so we just stripped it and added sand and then just threw cores in on the right hand side, so it was all the same grass.

So like course, from the from the existing green, uh huh, okay, from the verification exactly, you just throw the plugs over there right over there, just not I hear a lot of people do that and grow a nursery from that. Yeah, you just threw it into.

That, just dumped them right over there from that green.

How how long did that take to have.

We did it in the fall and it was opened that spring, and you sent the same grass, the same exact grass.

That's kind of cool.

Yeah, it's you never know what even added on to it. It's so much better than buying bent grass and putting into an old ben green. I mean you should. I mean we would always use cores. We did the same thing one five. We expand that back left corner. We did the same thing with that.

That's neat. Uh So thanks, thanks for coming on.

Well, thanks for coming to Cedar Rappins.

Oh yeah, I mean my pleasure. It's coming from coming.

Hey, coming the summer next time I'm going to it.

You know, this is Uh, I've got myself booked up a couple of times on the road this way. Might see me too much. Now, awesome, that's the problem you're going to say. You gotta get rid of this guy.

Hey, you're always welcome.

Thanks. Uh and uh, people can find you on Twitter, they can absolutely You're handled at Tom Feller.

At c R C C soup c R C C soup.

I knew that. I'm gonna write that down.

You got.

You on Instagram, you know, let's like it crazy. Twitter is tough enough. You can pass lesson and knowledge on and information. On Instagram, it's more just pretty pictures, you know. The twitters where the yeah, all right, thanks so much, thank you,