I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a fried egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, fridagg fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hup course. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. Today I am joined by Ian Gilly. Ian is the founder of the Sugarloaf Social Club. It is a popular Instagram account. You've probably come across them. They do a
ton of stuff on golf courses. They also have a creative business, a Sugarlove Creative Lab, which is does kind of logo design creative services for clubs or across the country. So I had Ian, I this is a long time coming. Ian a great golf course mind, a great golf course explorer. So I wanted to talk to him about his recent trip through Kansas and Oklahoma as well as talk to him about the golf course he built. So, without further ado, here is Ian Gilly. So tell me about your your
recent golf trip. I'm always intrigued. I feel like you getta you go on at least once a year a trip that makes me wish that I was on the trip slash wish I had I had done that trip already.
So tell us about your your most recent trip.
Yeah, so a couple of years ago, I was like, you know, what would be interesting the end of the year sort of detox, go on a solo golf trip. You know, like that feels like it could be really interesting and therapeutic and you can knock out a ton of courses in one day. So last year I did Nebraska and it was incredible. And then this year, so last week also flew into Denver, but flew out of Oklahoma City and just kind of played little niners and some nice
eighteen whole spots along the way. Probably the highlights for me. Well, Boiling Springs is pretty cool and perhaps you've heard of that Golfers journal I think had an event out there last year. I mean there's like a ton of sandy terrain kind of in this like prairie landscape, and so there are some courses built on dunescapes. So yeah, Boiling Springs, which is in this little town in Kansas, oh, in Oklahoma, excuse me, in Woodward, Oklahoma, just kind of was incredible.
It was like a mash up between like Worldwoods to Bacco Road and kind of like Jupiter Hills Club vibes just set in that kind of terrain. So that was pretty That was pretty incredible. But I think that the highlight for me of the trip, and we were texting about this a little bit, was Buffalo Dunes just south
of Garden City, Kansas, another municipal course. And these guys are really they view themselves as you know what wild Horse in Nebraska is two sand hills like, they view themselves as sort of that public b side option to a prairie dunes. And the superintendent who used to be out at bally Neil and Prairie Club has come back. He's a local, local guy, and he's been restoring this course three holes every year with an totally in house
team and an incredible budget. And they got one of one of core crunch Jaw's shapers to help with the kind.
Of massive pack Zach Vardy.
Yeah, it's it's incredible and like what they've pulled off, they're probably halfway done from a budget standpoint, and then the aesthetic standpoint and a playability standpoint is insane. I mean it's set on sandy soil and these rippling, you know, prairie dune vibes, and they're delivering like exceptional, like world class muni golf for an insane valley. It's probably like fifty bucks to play there.
It's one that I've I've wanted to go for a couple of years, and every time I look up, like I always look up Garden City, and every time I look it up, I'm revided. I'm like, I really have to go there, and then it's like you got to hike back?
But what prompted that?
As the locale, it's it's absolutely stunning out there, and there's just some incredible nooks and crannies where they're I mean, Nebraska is much more like severe like sand dunes wise, but yeah, what prompted me to go there? It's really like I'm a two year old kid. I think you got a young kid too. It's like how quickly and officially can I pull off like a three to four night golf trip basically, And so it's really starts with like where can I fly into that's convenient and fly
out of that will give me home super fast? So that almost like that bookend like dictates sort of this this road trip, and I know that like if I'm alone, or even if I'm meeting up with one person, like in these rural places, I can knock out. I mean the first day I saw, I'm nine four nine whole golf courses, Like I was just flying and like you can drive like crazy fast out there because there's basically no one out there. So yeah, I was looking at
all sorts of like Denver to Albuquerque. I mean there's some cool stuff, Like there's this Andy Staples course. I really want to check it out out there rock Winn Dude. That was I was like trying my best to like figure out how to get there. So there's like a lot of stuff left to be seen, and I think, like, I mean, you can spend all your money and take a couple of weeks and try to get through these
obscure courses in like northern Scotland or wherever. But if you go to the middle of our own country and sure it's like remote, but maybe it's a two hour flight to Denver and then a three hour car ride to Bayside, Like that's some incredible golf in it. You know you're there quicker than you were somewhere else. So it's hopefully like encouraging and like inspiring to folks to like think outside the box for a golf trip number one, and like you can go by yourself, just go with
one other person and it'll still be cool. A cool.
Hang, How did you how did you start? How did you decide to go by yourself? Was it was a COVID induce Like what you know, I I've got a two year old too, We're in like the exact same boat, and it was kind of like I think COVID at that time was really weird because you know, when COVID hit, my wife was pregnant, so you're very very careful, you know, and then you know, afterwards, then you have a newborn when the world's starting to open it up, but you
have a newborn, so you're still being really careful. Like, how did the solo aspect of this trip come about?
Yeah, I mean that first year, so that was my first one was last year around the same time, and so you know, he's he's almost one years old at this point, and you know that first those first six eight months are just tough man as a first time parent, and you're like the first three months are a black hole. The next few you're just trying to like come back
to the reality. And so there was like a year where I didn't get to go like on a golf trip, and so yeah, last year was just on a whim, like, hey, babe, I'm thinking about flying to the middle of nowhere, Nebraska and playing golf for like four days. Is that possible? And she's like, sure, go go this weekend. So I like booked that trip in like a couple of days, and yeah, it's it's kind of intense. It's an intense golf trip for sure, because you don't know what you're
getting into. And some of these courses, even on this last trip, like I did weeks of research and I show up and the course has been close for you, Like there's just no updates coming from like selling Oklahoma, you know, to the golf world about their little nine hole Sandhle course.
So they aren't keeping up to date on their Facebook page.
I mean, sometimes Facebook's the best place to find out about these courses. I mean, if I see a post within the last few months, I'm like, Okay, maybe they're open. Maybe, but yeah, it's it's funny, man, it's and I just I love I mean, I didn't see a soul for like the first two days at these golf courses. Like it's just it was a little creepy. Honestly. Everything's on
honor box system for the most part. Like I mean, man, when I saw my first pro Shop at Boiling Springs, I just like dropped my whole wallet in there, basically because I was so excited to like see a box of Proby ones for the first time in a few days. So yeah, it's really good. It's fun though.
Yeah, what's the uh, what's research? You said you spent weeks researching.
Yeah, Google Earth, man, I spent hours on Google Earth. And I'm like, you can almost guarantee that every little town has some semblance of something golf. And so I'm just on there, like I know, I'm in Denver, finding Denver, Okay, I'm just like plotting points like along this route and just finding courses and like starring them basically, and then from there going into the their Facebook pages or you know what, maybe someone wrote an article about them ten
years ago about their grand opening or whatever. So tons of notes and you know, knowing where you're sleeping each night, is kind of like the first order of business. I'm and locking those in. So being a huge Google Earth guy, that's pretty much I find all these courses in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah, we we did.
Uh.
I was in this sand Hills of Nebraska a few times this year and it's it's funny they uh both times stayed local lodging and like the highlight of my summer, I would say, is we finished like a long day we were doing shooting at sand Hills for this uh, this Superintendent thing that we're putting together this fall and uh, and it was like we finished shooting, the restaurant had closed, you know, because it's later at night. We got we
got a pizza from the gas station. We drive to our motel and we're just eating on the hood of the car and we got like, you know, a.
Six pack of beer.
And it's like that's the beauty of doing these like remote trips. And in some of those, like when you're talking about Nebraska sand Hills, you know, Western Kansas, is you just have these moments of like it's a little bit more. It does not it's definitely not filled with frills, but it's filled with these moments where you're just like,
you know what, this is pretty good. So I think for people that are familiar with your page at Sugar Left Social, they've seen your journeys, and I feel like this is kind of an extension of your journeys through the Northeast and upstate New York and Maine and Vermont, and you know what are some of your favorite places from those journeys A little bit less known golf courses.
Yeah, I think we're gonna like look to Maine. I mean there's so much cool little stuff there and styles of van Kleek. I mean they're just dotted all over the Northeast. But I think North Haven Island, which you have, it's in Maine. You have to take a ferry to it. Nine hole SDK course out there, all these secret tea boxes.
I mean there's you know, one T box that's like on the beach held up by like lobster crates basically with AstroTurf tea box and you're hitting over this little tiny inlet and that one, to me is like incredibly incredibly special. Yeah, you get up, you get up in
to Aderomdacks. I mean there's something there's like I mean basically you look at all these like nooks and crannies that are deep in the middle of nowhere in the northeast and kind of down the east coast that were like summer retreats for the for the wealthy one hundred years ago. So you'll find a lot of Golden Age stuff, Like there's the frontline of Fendara out there, and uh near the Adirondacks is just Donald Ross. It's incredible, absolutely incredible.
I mean it's it's hard. Once my like perspective on like what made golf kind of fun and like shifted from trying to chase lists and see all the cool, super nice famous stuff Like there's so there's an endless supply basically of interesting, quirky local stuff. So yeah, those are a couple of my like absolute favorites up there.
I would say, I think something that appeals to me about when you're going somewhere that's relatively unknown is the discovery aspect of it.
You know, having never seen a phot of a.
Place or a good photo of a place or never you know they're not being something written up or a grand thing done about it. Like it really appeals, like makes me excited to turn the next corner. It's almost like you build certain experiences up so much in your head, and when you go on these discovery trips like you've done, it's almost like you your expectations are out the window. So then it allows you to just like almost enjoy the courses more.
Yeah, it's probably like what I'm always like secretly chasing is that feeling of discovering something organically for the first time, like you haven't been. I mean, I can't think of like a top one hundred club that I almost haven't seen every hole on Instagram Hollywood Golf Club, Like would really love to go there, but Country Complection just posted every hole today and I was like, I just played the course basically, so you know, there's there's not much
left uncovered. And that's kind of what drives me to go deeper and deeper and more obscure. Like the other day I was looking up in like what is near the Arctic Circle in Canada? Like how how weird and far can we keep pushing this that people haven't seen kind of in our orbit? And I think like a lot of the really really cool stuff is found, I mean has been found, but you know, ever every so
often I mean even even locally to me. Here this place called Capon Springs, which is like, once upon a time rivaled Greenbrier and Homestead, and it's in West Virginia, and it's like it took me like ten years to find this place. And it's ninety minutes from my house. So there's still some like truly like hidden gems out there. But you're right, it's that feeling that like it's like a treasure hunt or like I don't know, antiquing or something, and you find this cool little trinket and like that
makes that experience incredibly special. And that's kind of what I'm always chasing, honestly.
I you know, I looked at at a golf course. There's a golf course in a Yukon territory of Canada. That's I've looked this up. It's only open for like two months of the year.
So tell me a.
Little bit about about Sugarlove Social how you guys got started, And then I think I have a feel, but the evolution of it and what, you know, what is become.
To make a long story as short as possible, it really goes back to when I was at Rollins College with my two roommates. This is in twenty eleven, and we're playing Corn Crunshaw's Sugarloaf Mountain, which doesn't exist anymore outside of Orlando. You know, it's getting towards the end of the school year, and we're getting kind of sentimental
and emotional and we're all going our separate ways. And you know, I've always been a huge fan of like I just love branding and like, let's let's name something and then figure it out, like let's invent a sport and run with it sort of thing. Like so we're on the sixteenth hole at Sugarloaf Mountain and I'm just like, hey, guys, why don't we why don't we just call our little group here Sugarlove Social Club and sort of give us some incentive to you know, keep in touch after college
and maybe add some new friends to the fold. And that's literally like what Sugarloaf Social Club was for five, six, seven years. I mean, it was like a text chain and like a private Facebook group of like twenty guys and we would go on one trip a year to Finers and we still the core still still does that. But obviously, like wanted a cool logo for our little group and love merch, so started making making some hats and we're kind of one of the early people into
Instagram at this point. And oh yeah, you know, I saw Instagram as like this incredible platform that beyond like maybe any other niche like golf was poised to like be so strong with Instagram by its side, because it's such like a visual like you're collecting Pokemon cards going to all these courses, right, and like I think one of the not to derail from like the orgins of Truelive.
But yeah, like I think people like under like forget or underestimate how important like Instagram was to these cool like Tobacco Road today that place was mocked or people didn't understand it, and like you can't tell you can't show a picture of someone Tobacco Road in nineteen ninety nine, you know so, but damn like that Instagram comes around and now you can like visually collect this like social currency of like hey I was here and look how
cool it is. And it shifted perspectives for you know, I think we were, you know, part of that, and places like Tobacco Road are like the coolest place to like get that Pokemon stamp. Get that passport stamp.
Now, there's definitely like Instagram courses, like courses that you know it, I I know, you know it. I know it as people that you know post pictures, but like you go certain places and you discover place and it's like, oh when I post a picture of this course, people are going to be like holy shit, like where is this place?
All right?
And and Tobacco Road was you know, Tobacco Road Sweeten's Cove. Like, you know, you could go down a list of courses that visually, you know, not a lot of people have been to. But once that like it's one thing to say to somebody, hey, you should go see this course, but it's another thing to show to show them why they should go see it course. And that's what Instagram has done for so many courses.
Yeah, I totally agree. So anyway, I mean going like kind of recognize that early, like this is going to
be a powerful platform for cool golf stuff. And I had this incredible library from like of golf pictures, you know, from playing golf you know, after college to this kind of Instagram moment and even stuff from traveling, you know, when I was abroad in Scotland for school and anyway, it was just like this perfect storm of like we had a brand before we had merch basically, and then once we had merched, people were like, hey, that's a
cool hat. Can I like PAYPALU you and you can send it to me, and like that kind of worked for the first few you know, merch transactions, and I was like, you know, this is like really annoying. I got to build a website and then just snowballs from that, right, and so like I always wanted to have my own brand and have it kind of be a part of something and and kind of mean something to people and make folks happy, which I think Sugarlift does for many
many offers. And that's just kind of how it started in snowball. Our and our strategy is like what does Ian want? Like, you know, I really need a new white hat? Okay, so we order new white hats. Like that's that's kind of like as complicated as like the ordering strategy is and the design process. So and that's
so yeah, that's Sugar Loaf Social Club. And then behind that, my business partner and I also had have an agency called sugar Lift Creative Lub We've done a bunch of creative work for big and small golf properties across the country and so that's that's a really fun you know, Sugarloaf Social Club is a very public facing entity and that kind of proves some of this you know, creative sauce to folks and they're like, hey, like maybe you guys can help us with this logo or the scorecard.
So yeah, it's been awesome. I mean Pinehurst and Pebble Beach and PG National and it's been it's been incredible, But we're really focusing on ourselves more going forward. So looking forward to that, I.
Know that you guys have done a lot of work with like Pinehurst with logos and branding.
What's the what's the key?
If you this is what's the key to distilling down a great logo for a course that's looking for a new logo?
Like what do you think? What do you how do you go about that process?
Yeah? I think like we're our special sauce. Liede was being able to sort of find that like kernel of something interesting from the archives, whether it's the color palette of the courses at at Pinehurst or a picture of a sea lion on one of the greens at Pebble Beach when we did their Part three, their new Part three logo finding finding this like little kernel of inspiration.
And then you know, I think there's like a language of golf course logos that like works and stuff that doesn't work, and things don't necessarily need to scream golf. You know, we definitely have some like Flag six and some of the logos we've done, but like we think of these logos these courses as like almost like a peril brands, like Pebble Beach's logo, that's their swoosh, that's
their ralph laurn pony. So like, how do you these are very simple, almost you know, monotone marks sometimes that have stood the test of time and so not trying to be too trendy and pulling from the archives and making something that we feel like will last for one hundred more years basically, and like there's a great you know, you look at the top one hundred courses and like there's only a few horses that kind of have like whackish logos like crystal downs or something, you know.
Like oh man, drive five Crystal Downs.
I They're on my pinboard of like what are the few horses that could maybe use something. But like that's also cool that like you have like a you know, kind of Scottish.
I don't even I don't even know how you describe as like a shield.
It's a belt, it's like a it's like a yeah, it's like a it's gotta be a tartan like derivative something.
Do you have?
Uh, what's what's your in your opinion, what's what's the best and what what would you say is is the the most overrated logo and your favorite one?
I think the maidstone and the wing foot stuff is is wonderful. I think looking to like more of like a modern you know, I think the Monterey Peninsula Country Club folks, that's I believe that's like a modern iteration of their logo. I think they've they've done an incredible job of that. Like I love kooky characters and like, yeah, I mean I kind of I probably like all the
same ones like a lot of folks do. I mean, my favorite, probably one of my favorite logos is like that old and GC members logo that kind of has all these like quirky like off turquoise colors and lowercase letters and you know, I think I'm really drawn to the hand the hand drawn looking things, you know, like in graphic design in general, there's a lot of I mean, you go down to your local hipster coffee store and it looks like the exact same logo as fifty others.
And I think there's like a little bit of a you know, we're stuck society creatively in like an aesthetic
right now. And a lot of that probably has to do with there's so many people who are so talented using like computer graphic design programs and like going back to that you know, hand drawn style, I think is what you know, subconsciously, these logos that stand the test of time have they were done by hand one hundred years ago basically, And so that's some of what we try to you know, bring to our marks as well.
You make such a good point. It is like there are, in a way, trends get shook shook up. I have a colleague who I don't think he'd mind me calling him a coffee snop, complete coffee snop.
But he he will.
He says that he can tell without going into coffee shop if you'll like it or not. It's all about the look, like he he knows what a a coffee shop that he would like looks like from the outside. Yeah, And but like at the same time, if you think about like what houses are being built, Like, if I see another modern farmhouse, Phil in a neighborhood, it's like, come on, do something different, but the same thing in a way with golf architecture, golf architecture will get stuck.
People will shake it up.
You know, and you'll get like a you know, in a way like Tom Doak and Bill and Ben.
You know, they introduced it a little bit new.
Style, right, this naturalized style, right, and you can see then it sorts of run through all of their peers. And I'm not saying all of them copy like, you know, but I listened to Bill, he said. Phil once on the pod said Pete dies the most you know, underrated architect because he changed golf architecture twice in what he introduced new styles, and then everybody else, you know, adapted those styles and everything looked like it, but.
None of them was that.
And it's interesting, you know what you said about logos, right, I feel like characters are super end with logos right now, Like everybody's looking for like an animal or something. And it's like like a logo that I love that gets like almost like underrated because of it. Is like some of the letter logos that intertwined letters like SFGC or sand Hills.
I'm sure Akers do that one is unbelievable.
And in a way they have gotten a little bit.
They've become not cool because you know, the the animals and stuff are you know, are in and I get it, like the whale, the Maidstone whale is cool, you know, but at the same time, let's forget that there's other ways you could do stuff. And I think that's the thing about it, is like, you know, some of the cool stuff is just like you know, sand Hills is famously I think it was Bill like did it with his foot or something?
You made a great point, man, because it's like even the Sea Island script, like that's not a font, like someone one hundred years go like hand like calligraphyed that and it's so iconic. So and I think all those kind of monograms that just mentioned have that similar, like IFCT they're almost like an imperfect you know, like with the way the little like wings on the top of the a at you know, shore Akers kind of fly
Off and yeah, so underrated. You're right, And like I've been thinking about that a lot too, about how architect like man, these courses are starting to all look very similar to me and like all like I'm excited for such valley because someone's doing something different, or like who's gonna like who's gonna read like is like the Philosopher country club like Chicago tree lined? Is that aesthetic gonna
come back? Ever? Like like no one's building like a country club course anymore, I don't know, Or like who's gonna try to do like a Langford Moreau style something. You know, I'm almost like done with like the natural supernatural stuff and let's try some other other looks.
You're doing effectively art when you're doing these logo things like it's you're an artist, you're hired and you're doing art.
And I think about this a lot. Is like you know, where would golf architecture be if it was more like other arts, right where like, hey, I want to be a golf architect and somebody could go just like build a course on land, like without an owner, because like that's how famous artists become discovered, right, is that they draw something in their room or their little like two
foot studio, their closet of a studio. But with golf courses, like you get hired by somebody and somebody you know there when you get hired by you know, Soto, so so rare is the case that like they are just going to like sit back and be like, you know what, whatever, build me.
A golf course. I'll come check on you in two years.
Yep.
Nobody does that, right, So like, instead you have like these and I think, like way, like what's your you know, I think a lot of golf architects probably say what's your what are your favorite courses? And then they build around that vein rather than and like this is what I want to build, and this is what I want.
To contribute to the art of golf architecture.
Yeah, and like they're kind of put in a confined to like this prescriptive box before they put a shovel in the dirt, like it's got to be this many holes, it has to the back tos have to get to this yardage, and I need this mix of this kind of standard mix of fives, fours and threes, and so it's fun it's it's so funny. To me man, like, I mean, even like Saint Andrews is so different and quirky and like the two part threes. And I don't know,
people don't always like look back. They think they're looking back and inspired by stuff, But like Pine Valley was sitting there for one hundred years and like no one really built another cool Baron's course until the like eighties
or nineties. What's that about? So yeah, I don't know, man, I don't know what's I think what's next in like golf course architecture are more quirk and charm and urban or far out like five whole six ole par threes whatever's so I think that's where there's some like opportunity to do creative stuff, because you're right, like, how are you gonna convince this billionaire who's finally got all the
ducks in the road to build his first course? Like, how are you going to convince him to do something totally off the wall?
One of the courses that I was most taken aback about how much I enjoyed this year was Scottsdale National. And you know I played with Tim and David, Tim Jackson and David Kahn when I was out there and and I, you know, I love to folk fund at the PXG commercials.
Who doesn't.
The guy comes on just yelling at you about Parsons and so I had I was like, you guys, gotta gotta give me the dirt, give me the dirt. How is Bob as a as a client? And they're like, honestly greatest client ever. And so they brought him out. I apparently I don't think they didn't tell the story on the pod, but they brought him out, you know, early on, and they were showing them all the stuff. And he said to him listen like, hey, guys, like I haven't had a Christmas morning in twenty five years,
Like I have so much money. When I want something, I buy it. He's like, this golf course is gonna be my Christmas morning. I don't want you to tell me anything going on. I want to come out here on an opening day and have like genuine shock. And so he just did let them go do whatever they wanted. And it's kind of like crazy. It's like you think of all the clients, like all the people that would be like my last.
Pick or somebody that would just get out of the way.
That's incredible. Great, great anecdote and like that stuff. Even are those the thing guys that did that? They're like Bad Little nine as well.
Yeah, Bad Little nine too. It's a cool place.
Yeah, at least that's something like I haven't really seen that before. That is that's something different. You know, that's gnarly golden tea fun golf.
Well you brought up you brought up Tobacco Road, Like that's a perfect example, Like is Tobacco Road my favorite course now? But like what I love about Tobacco Road is it makes you feel something. Too much architecture doesn't do that.
What I also love about Tobacco Road, And I think that was all time like growing up again, I've never seen a photo this place, but like was playing junior tournaments in the Pinehers area and there's like, you know, whispers of this like crazy hard quirky, which like quirky was like a bad thing right like in the nineties, and so you know, in my head, it's like this impossible, like wacky. You get out there and like turns out a third of the pins are gonna be punishable, like
you're gonna have like six birdies. You know, my dad's gonna have a thrilling ball bound towards the pin and he's gonna remember that shot forever. And so yeah, that's the strength stuff. And especially Tobaco Road Man. I mean like at least that's that's different, Like that is something wholly unique.
Yeah, but instead of everybody's gonna build the same coffee shop. The one thing I do, like I've seen like Brian Schneider's been bringing back a lot of above ground features.
Those are some of my favorite things.
Like and you you know, I see him so much on your page when you're out seeing quirky places. Is like you know, the idea of like mounts and chocolate drops and stuff like, it's just like the stuff has such utility, you know, is early on it was just a place to put rocks and obviously that's not it anymore. But like the idea of like it not being a bunker,
doesn't need to be raked all the time. It's actually more difficult and it gives you, like, you know, it gives you different levels of for your eye to get drawn in different places for your eye to get drawn.
Yeah, the Walter Travis stuff especially, and you know, Yae, you're proper golf on Instagram he's he's got a couple Travis products he's always working on too, And it's like they're manipulative features, like they're man made things or they're like, hey, you got up this rock here, and SOB's just gonna grow over it over time. But like that stuff was taken out of a lot of courses for like the
longest time. I'm sure you've seen that. I think it's the the fifteenth or sixteenth pole at Columbia Country Club, like the par three that you sound like a huge pimple in the middle of it, and like all these like cool like you know shoulders where the green kind of rolled over and then like continue to I mean, just incredible stuff. Yeah, I think the Travis. I mean you're just that country called Troy, right, Like there's some.
Cool that's a cool place.
It's cool stuff out there. That's that you're right, like, yeah, bring yeah, more of that, like more centerline hazards, like more chocolate drops, like more vertical like inverted bunkers, like I'm here for that.
So you bought a course? Yes, How did how did this come about? You know, this is everybody's dream is to buy buy a golf course. How did you find it, How did you decide to buy it?
Where is it? Where is it? We need some details to.
Sure. Yeah, it's called Sugar low Field Club. It's in Whitehall, New which is just on the edge of the Adirondack Park on the eastern side of Lake George. And you know, you're right. It's everyone's everyone's dream to like have a course of their own, or build, build something from scratch, or buy something. And you know, our our partner in this venture David Cronheim, his family owns and operates Washing
Valley in New Jersey. You know, he and I are good buddies, have known each other for ten years, and you know it's kind of the classic like friends late night texting, like dream ideas and like look at this place or look at this piece of land. And this year we got really serious about how do we how do we like go from just talking about it to like doing something interesting? Is it? Do we buy house
in the Piners area? Do we you know, save Buyna Vista, which is a public course you know, in rural Virginia. Like we're looking for something and it wasn't especially like what we ended up with, but David just happened to find the real estate listing for this this and it was called Whitehall Field Club originally built by this guy who sort of had his own boyhood dream too. He's like, I'm I want my own golf course. So what he built was six holes that resemble kind of Saint Andrew's
style Links Golf and the Gustin National Clubhouse. And this guy had never been to either one of those. So it's this total like kooky, like boyhood dream situation. And Steve Diurky was the architect. And you know, David and I we go out there the first time this summer and like the real estate listening, like, the place looks gorgeous, Like it looks like we brought our clubs. David's got his spikes on parking lot. We get there and there's heather like above our head. This place hadn't been mode
in like two or three years. So we basically we bought a field that we're mowing back down into the golf course. But yeah, man, it's it's you know, we've had our superintendent out there for three weeks and it's it's looking really good, like the green fairways are pop be back. We're gonna have to sob the greens in
the in the spring. But yeah, it's gonna be a private club, probably fifty members and bring in some cabins and have some lodging in the clubhouse as well, and it's just going to be a little ad Airondack camp vibe club.
So six holes, what's uh, what's the what's the gist of the holes? Are you going to do any work too of or are you going to kind of are you going to wait and see period?
I think we you know, bring it, bring it back to playable right now. Like it's actually really it's like I don't know if it's accidentally good or on purpose good, but it's like it's good. It's they're good golf holes. It's not a short course. It's like a legit par five length opener and one hundred and eighty yard part three second hole and so on. So you know, it's it's four greens, so two of the middle greens are shared and you just play three holes out and three
holes back. And it's flanked by the by a canal and in a river, so there's there's water views and you look down the saddles which is the mountain range
of that area. And like you hear six holes and they're like, yeah, you know, that's not going to do it for me, but it's legit golf and good architecture and so you know, basically just like let's restore this place first and put some on these greens and there's interesting movements and that'll be step one and maybe a few new back tea boxes, but we will definitely be looking to like up the architectural game in the seasons to follow and finding the right you know, shaper or
architect to help us through that project as well.
The thing about it too is like six holes is kind of like good for a vacation spot because like if you're going to the Adirondacks, there's other stuff to do too, you know, beyond golf. Like I always think about like the there's a couple of great like little clubs in like southwest Michigan. Dunes Club is obviously one
of them. But it's like nine hole course you can scoot around, you know, short eighteen hole coursees you know, fifty seven hundred yards that you can just kind of fly around and get back because you know, you want may go to the lake or do some other stuff.
It's the idea of like six holes is like you said earlier, I think that's like the thing that needs to be pushed for golf is like different versions because you could play those six holes so many different ways if you just change up teas, you change up like you know, if you have a lot of T boxes, you know, it could change the complete angle of the T shot then all sudden it's a completely different hole, right.
Yeah, exactly. And like the truth is like when folks and numbers and guests are out there, like if it's if there's twelve people on property, like that would be an insane situation. So like you can imagine like getting your cross country on or playing in your tens on more.
I'm just gonna play three holes then go have a beer on her Augusta National Replica Clubhouse Randa for you know, an hour, or read a book or and like there's you know, I think the type of folks that we attract like understand that like golf doesn't have to be like this, you know, exact like championship eighteen whole thing. And they're also open to like adventures too, And there's a lot of cool golf in that area of public
and private like super high and super low stuff. So from Glenn's falls an aquamic to a lit part three courses down the street to these little hamlets on Lake George all have like nine and five whole courses, so it's more than interesting. And you're right, it's like it's a vacation. It's like a vacation club basically, and there's more stuff to do than just golf, or you can create your own adventure with golf as well.
What was the hardest part about the whole process so far? What has been the hardest part.
You know, the behind the scenes stuff that like people don't know about or don't want to think about. Like the fun of it is like, wow, you own your own golf course, but the reality is like you're buying like multiple acres from some person you don't know, you know, with that has like structures and irrigation and there's water aka potential, Like we don't you know, you just it's you have to Like that's where David is so helpful
in this situation. Like maybe I'm the creative marketing brain, but he's the lawyer, real estate brain and just close Like if you've ever bought a home, like you know, like how intense that is. So like amp that up to like sixty five acres that has a clubhouse and its in a septic system that's kind of independent, and so that's that's been you know, the real learning curve for me is just the like the boring, the boring dealing with county regulation, state regulations, like thank goodness, we're
not in that or on that park or else. You know, you couldn't look at a tree for without get to violation. So and it becomes really serious once you start hiring people and that that feels like you're we have a superintendent who's relying on us to figure out the membership model when we have to pay for his life, and like people are like dependent on this place. So like that's that's a huge responsibility too. It's not it's not
just on a golf course. You own a golf course where you also have to generate revenue to pay people. So you know, those those realities are just just like running you know, the non sexy side of just like running businesses, seeing the paperwork side of things. So but like, honestly, this has been this project. We've only been involved with this for you know, in earnest for two months now, so you know, we got to We've been talking with
different cabin vendors. We're you know, like finding the right cabin fit, finding the right guy we can trust to like hook those up to the sewage system.
Then finding somebody to maintain them.
Yeah, totally. Finding good labor is tough in these remote parts of the country too, So food like what are
people going to do for food? Like there's not a there's not a kitchen, but it's but people, you know, the folks who are We had probably five hundred thousand people email us interested in joining this place, and David and I have been spent the last couple of weeks just meticulously going through every talking to everyone on the phone, zoom calls, like it's it's been an incredible process to like find the right culture fit of people who are gonna understand how cool this place can be.
How'd you land on fifty members?
You know it's just capacity and six holes with twelve to fourteen places to sleep, you know kind of just went went from there and we're like, how many folks theoretically could like fit in this place and have access to these two overnight opportunities you know, during the good season, so that's kind of that's kind of how we came up with that. And just small intimate everyone knows each other.
I mean that's really appealing to us. You know, like the golf course is incredibly social and the you know, the hangs are going to be very communal, so it's like keeping it tight and like getting good stewards who like understand our vision and are totally jazzed about the concept is was was crucial for us. So and we're gonna have a handful of probably ten or twenty more
local members too. We think that's super important. So many good courses in the area that folks belong to, and just good Sugarloaf fans basically up there who want to be a part of it as well, and to have some local people who can play host a little bit to folks and just be you know, because I live in northern Virginia and David lives in New Jersey, so we're gonna be up there as much as possible. But you know, our North Star like one of my favorite
golfing experiences. And this is not a totally perfect parallel, but I mean, you've been to Kingsley like you just show up there, go to your cabin and go golf and there's like cereal in the cupboard. I was really drawn to that, and like emulating lightly staffed, do what you want, come as you are, have fun, be relaxed was kind of the impetus for this Circle Field Club.
It's exciting.
I mean, I think the more more relaxed golf can be, right, is the better. The last question to get you out of here, what are the three courses you think about the most, not the best, just the ones that you you think about the most.
Probably, I mean Culver, I think is probably my number one.
It's getting so good too. Michael is doing such such a good job there.
He's killing it. I think. You know, I grew up in the South Side, Chicago and we would go every summer to Culver and so like, I've played that course thousands of times. And I mean, I don't know if you were over there before the renovation.
But it was like I wasn't.
Yeah, it was you know, there's no sand in you can just see these huge you know, Langford wrote dramatic like bunkers. There's no sandity in the bunkers. The greens are over irrigated super like you're getting like a plug lie every time in the greens and it's just like gophers and like dirt fairways. But I loved it, and everyone always ripped on it so hard because the conditioning was like horrible and it's just like the Free Academy's course, and I was like, no way, this is like stupid special.
So I almost was like when they renovated it, of course, like I had like master plans myself and like drawings, you know, all my sketch books of like how I would do it, or how I would add nine more holes. But you know, I'm almost like sometimes all these courses get renovated and like bring some notoriety to them. There's like a part of me that's kind of sad, like it's like it's no longer my really hidden haunt that
no one else likes. And that's why I love it, because it's like, you know, an independent identification of something unique and cool that means something to me. So but it's an incredible restoration renovation. So that's probably I'm probably my number one. And then like you know, if I had to put some other ones in a box, I mean I think like Yale to me, sits in a similar like culver vein, Like I think did Langford go
to Yale? So I mean that one just I think about that one a lot, probably Worldwoods, probably World Woods too.
Man, are you are you worried that they're they're gonna you know that's your spot?
First of all, I was like shocked when I heard the like cabin. I mean it's an it's kind of an incredible story like that would I mean it's a kin to like Kaiser buying, like name what whatever, Like it hasn't I feel like this like hasn't this, Like it hasn't happened really before, where a huge entity with a track record of building new modern architecture like remote spots is like gone and bought a relic. They're not gonna mess. They're gonna That's gonna be an incredible, incredible spot.
It's so special with the live oaks and the barons. I mean, it's I don't know that one. I think you know the mid mid Pines too, probably for me. I mean I know it's four courses now, but a lot of courses to me, like I look back to my junior like when did I start to recognize like golf architecture. I grew up with Fosspher Country Club, and like when you're young and you grew up at a place, you don't realize you don't play a lot of other courses.
You don't know, you don't understand, like what you have in front of you is special and there's other cool stuff down the road. And so once I started playing and junior turn into like Ravislow and Pine Needles, I was like, oh Man Worldwoods. I was like, Wow, there's more than just my little backyard country club, Like there's some incredible, different cool stuff out there, Like I need
to know more. So those ones that left an early impression, I mean, are still my favorites, honestly, Calvery Yale, Ravs Slope.
Yeah, Phosphor is good. What a good spot?
Yeah. I grew up right by on the second tier there, so that was my spot. Yeah, what are your what are your three? I need to know.
That's just listen. I asked the questions.
I mean Pelican, Nebraska, like like, oh.
God, that place is amazing.
Like those I think about all the time, like like it's not too like little remote spots can have compelling our golf architecture, Like it's not just because it's like a poor municipality, like you have to do the lowest common denominator golf architecture. Like it's possible to have both. I think so.
One, I think about a ton, I think about wild Horse an irrational amount, and I think it's because like the first time I went there, I played it and I walked off and I was like, that's one of the ten best courses in America, like public courses.
It's in my top ten for sure, and I.
Like thought, and then like you know, a year went by and I started to doubt myself. I was like, oh, maybe not, you know, maybe I just I was, you know, it was just the moment I went back out there the summer and I was like, you know what, it might be better than top ten, and like that place is out of this world.
It's Shinnakoka, the sand Hills. It's it is a dead ringer for something you'd find on Long Island, and it is like I don't usually care about conditioning, but when conditioning is like good and firm and absolutely enjoyment of like the strategy, like that's when golf becomes like next level fun and that place was insanely firm, super tight. So that you're right, Andy, that's that isn't my It's in my top ten for sure.
I've said this, I think before on here, but I think sand Hills is a better golf course than it. But I if I was like presented with them both in my backyard, I would play Wildhorse more than I'd played sand Hills. And I don't know, like, and this is my problem with rankings really is like there's so many different ways to break it down, like, well, what what what whole? What course would you play if you
were going to die tomorrow? Your answer might be different than what course would you play if you could play it every day?
Yeah?
Those are different buckets, right, And how do you possibly rank though? You know right there they go in. But anyways, Wildhorse is one I think irrationally about, like irrationally too much about.
I'd say I grew up.
In Lake Bluff and Shore Acres was always like the place, you know, that was the one spot that like opened my eyes that like, you know, I grew up playing Lake Bluff Golf Club, the municipal there, and I grew up working at at Conway and Nolewood but then when you go to shorre Akers, you were like, God, this this place has like some next level stuff, Like this place is different than ever everywhere.
Else I've been, so that one is on there for me.
And then you know, I do I love like Diamond Springs, which is a mic divrees course, and the reason I love that is because it's just like, you know, the just the maintenance of it is what I love is like single cut, you know, basically to the to the fscue, to the like the native and then really cool greens, and it's like that's really all you need.
Ye good.
Yeah. So I don't know, those.
Those are probably the three that I've come come to mind, but you know, you could do so many. I mean, Yale's incredible Yalees, Like, I mean that place, that place, after the renovation, it's gonna be one of the twenty best places in the country.
That's al Like, I don't know, I get this like irrational fear about places being restored renovated to their like peak glory. Like I kind of like the bar conversation of a place that has tons of potential and is never gonna get restored. Like that's that's almost more fun to me in a way.
I love speaking of that, Like, who's.
Gonna I don't know, is anyone building that style of golf course right now? Like not not entirely. I mean I don't know. Some of the tree farm stuff might kind of look like that with sort of those edge drastic you know, longer bunkers.
But Kai Kai Kai was telling me that it's like really really hard to build Langford Moreau style with modern equipment. Interesting, well, it's like different equipment, right, different tools. Riley John's always told me he wanted to do a course that was like, uh, completely old school, like build like horse.
And plow the mules and get the Yeah, that's hilarious. I mean we might be getting to that. Honestly, we might like the fifth course in Sand Valley, like they might have to go to that, Like what's gonna, Well, we built this with like wood and copper tools by hand.
Basically, what do you think about Lido?
That looks insane nank god like someone, I mean, that's what's so awesome, Like I think of and I'm not comparing myself to my Kaiser by any search imagination, but like that guy started with a nine hole court like you know, and then they made the best golf in the world basically one place of mandon and no one's gonna question their you know, leadership, and then they get do some cool stuff like that. So Lito looks absolutely like that's probably my favorite golf content of the year, right,
like any drone video or photo from Lido. So it almost like old like Old Mac is one of my favorite course and that sort of start, you know, feels like that, like sort of those shared fairway situations and tons of ripples and yeah, that's an incredible thing they're doing there.
Old Old Mack is greatly underappreciated.
I think that's that might be my favorite course abandoned potentially.
I think like if if you if you were going to say which one would you play the most, I'd play that the most. I think my favorite my favorite walk is probably trails. I think the best course is packed dunes. See this is the problem. This is the problem with rankings that are it's more superlatives is a better term.
I like to know what people's like, what could they play every day for the rest of their lives and like, to me, Waverley Country Club in Portland and then Proutsneck over in Maine. Those two, to me are like the ideal every day in the west of your life course is like sixty one yards golden age, super interesting, walkable, but enough terrain to keep you intrigued. Like those two to me are like and I'm sure you've seen I'm sure you've seen Waverley. Maybe you haven't been a prosnak, but I haven't.
I haven't seen either. I need to go. I need to go to both.
I made my first john into Maine for like twelve hours.
Is I needed it?
You know about ten days in Maine, But that cap arundle would fall into that bucket of like everyday place.
Exactly, Like it's just tiny, like tiny but fun.
Well, that's the thing.
Fifty eight hundred yards is incredible because you could get around it in like three hours.
Yeah, Like, are you ever bored at that place with that yardage? No?
Never, Ian, Thanks so much for your time.
People can find you and you're at sugar Loft Social Club, Instagram account, anywhere else if.
They're interestingly hearing more about the field club. We bought a golf course at Sugarloaf Social Club dot com. Shoot us a note all.
Right, thanks for coming on.
Thank you for listening to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode was edited by Garrett Morrison, you know, talented man behind the mic as well as you know doing producing the audio.
So thank you Garrett for putting this together.
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