Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. In this episode, I am joined by Fox play by Play guy and host of the Clubhouse Podcast, Shane Bacon. Before we get into our discussion, i'd like to ask you all to head over to our brand new YouTube page It's under the Fried Egg, and be sure to check out our latest videos. Now, without further ado, here's Bacon and the Fried Egg.
The fried Egg requires a different technique. What you need to do is actually square the face so they'll dig down underneath that bad lie and propel that ball right out onto the green. Here's the thing.
Playing out of a buried lion of bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice clean lion of green side bunker.
You need to be aggressive on any show weather it's sitting cleanly for its Friday Egg. Well, we've all faced. It's the dreaded Frida Egg. It's not to be feared though.
It's actually a pretty easy shot to hit.
So you're the you're the original gangster golf blogger. I thing like that, and I think a lot of people know that.
Well, I mean it's like there was I mean, Ryan Balangie was kind of an og there was this thing called the sand Trap. I'm trying to think of some other golf Blogsdi Hackers Paradise was around. We had Stephanie Way came around after a little bit of me kind of rocket and rolling. But yeah, I was. I actually had a buddy of mine, my buddy Andrew, when we got out of college. I wrote for the student newspaper and he was like, yo, man, you should like right
now on the internet. And I was like, all right. I actually wrote a major championship previews for dead Spin back in the Will Leech days, which is pretty o G. I think I wrote some stuff for like Sports by Brooks too, but I hope that there's no arcaves for that because I would hate to see what it looked like.
Was that brooks Kopka's publication.
Yeah, that was like like before he realized his potential. He had this great blog and uh and it was awesome. It was it was it was a must read. But uh, yeah, that was Those are those are the days, man. I had a desk in my bedroom. It was so nice. That's where that's where all the magic happened.
You literally woke up and you know, instead of a basement, instead of your parents' basement. It was just a one bedroom office sleeping quarters.
The ground in Phoenix is too hard to dig down to, so they just instead of having the basement, I just had an attached an attached desk in my in my room. Actually, my my buddy, same buddy, Andrew, the one that I was telling you complained. Him and I were living together, and he gave me the bigger bedroom because he was like, you're the loser that stays at home and rights all the time, so you can have the bigger room. I was like, thank you, sir.
When when you're writing, and when you were just blogging and doing this for all these different sites, why did you know that you were kind of like set and locked in for with golf for the rest of your life.
Man, the rest of my life. Don't say that.
Well, you probably you might move on to bigger and better things.
No, no, no, I I you know what I wrote when I first got my job with AOL fan house. I wrote almost every sport. I didn't write a lot of baseball, but I wrote it was kind of one of those things when stuff came across the wire, which I know that sounds like a super old term, but you know, like when when when Tiger did something or some breaking
news came out about this. Basically it was kind of the it was first person to email our list, serve I, hey, I got this story, got it, and and if you got a really popular post, you actually got a little bit of bonus. So dude, I would just sit around all the time and and just kind of be around the computer just just looking. So I mean, NFL stories
all that stuff. But I knew, I knew fairly on that golf was probably the best avenue, just because I felt like I knew it the best, and I had kind of some cool opportunities throughout throughout my life within the game that I don't think a lot of people had. So yeah, that's kind of why I wanted to do it, and and so I gradually kind of navigated over there.
And then when I got a chance to kind of write for the Yahoo blog and then eventually edit it and go to CBSI on golf, that was kind of when I realized that this was probably the sport that I should focus most of my attention on because it seemed to be the one that was that that kind of I don't know, people listen to me about I don't know if that makes sense. They kind of listened to me about it.
I don't know.
I mean, I still get people that call me Sean. I got called Sean twice on air this year Sean Bacon twice. Host go back to Sean. I was like, that's close enough.
Well, they didn't even know brooks Cepko Sam turning the final round.
Don't feel beast.
That's exactly right.
But he's just won two major championships.
You know what, though, you know, there's a level of kind of being like I'm kind of okay with people and maybe not knowing my name like that. You know, like I see these really famous people. Not to say like I'm gonna ever be famous or even on that path, but like I see famous people and the fame thing is so weird that like it's kind of nice when like somebody you're working with says your name wrong, You're like nice. You know, that's okay. I'm okay with that.
I think, like I've always wished like if I became famous, that I was like the level of fame of like you know, like a middle of the road baseball player, like the guy that can just walk around completely unnoticed. But it's like really good at what he does, but not super famous.
You know, my Facebook profile since I was like out of college, and again this has now become a little bit more of like a like a popular opinion, but my Facebook profile for probably fifteen years says I want to have the career of Charles how the third because it's like he can do anything he wants, anywhere he wants, at any time, and he could also go eat down the street at like Flower Child in Phoenix and nobody's gonna bother the guy.
Yeah, that's that's the that's the life. It's not when you're out at dinner and everybody's walking up to you asking for your autograph.
That's not the best life. Best life is.
Being able to live in animinity, you.
Know, but didn't like have have a little success. It's like you, I mean, Charles how the Third's career has been massively successful by my standard. You know, I know people wish you one more, but that's an unbelievable career in life. And you know, he can go to Starbucks and they're probably going to write, you know, something different on his cup, and that's good. That's that's the life.
They want the Starbucks brist to screw up your name like eighty percent of the time, you know, because they're not going to screw up Jordan's speed. Hadn't got anything but Jordan on a Starbucks cup in a long time. If ever, you know, they're probably not going to mess up Tiger very much. But you know, if you're you know, Bubba Dickerson probably gets that messed up every now and against the US an't or.
Champion and Western m same year.
Did he really win them both in the same year.
I'm almost I'm almost positive I thought I was. I was all in you know on Bubba Dickerson Island. You know that was that was a very bad property purchase.
Yes, didn't go well. So you know, in in the in the sports world besides baseball, to know that in the last twenty years, we've had too successful Bubba's. And I'll say Bubba Dickerson is successful because he won the amateur That's that's probably not gonna happen a ton in most in most professional outlets.
I feel like football, you could have some Bubba's.
Too offensive linemen.
Bubba's I don't know, yeah, I could offensive lineman exactly like it but I don't think of many other sports like basketball.
There there's not gonna be many bubbus playing.
Let's see here, let's see now, I'm looking up Bubba Dickerson. He won the one us AM, he won the one Western End Way to go. I'm very impressed. See, this is why you're you remember that.
I know, I remember all this useless crap, but then I can't remember to, like, you know, clean my clothes up. My wife drives my wife crazy. So when, uh, when did you you know, so you're in the industry, you're you're blogging. When do you think that, uh, broadcasting was a possible avenue?
Well, I always wanted a broadcast, the issue being that I'd never really done it. You know, a lot of people go to school and you know, spend four years doing that. I when I got to school, I wrote and that was my main focus, and I wrote for the student newspaper.
So were you journalism major?
You know, what's up? Journalism major in? And you know, it's funny, I was. I had all these plans to do all this broadcasting internship stuff, and I just fell in love with the writing side of it. I love the grind, I love the hustle. I love the you're interviewing the head coach for the football team and the journalist, the print journalist. You know, we're sitting around for forty five minutes because they've got to get all this stuff and the TV people need one SoundBite. And I love
the hustle of the writing side. So I didn't do any really broadcasting in college outside of an internship at NBC, but I always had this dream of it, and I remember I did a couple of things. I did this thing at the Rodeo in Vegas. Please God, I hope it's not on the internet. I did this thing for the Rodeo for aol I think, and I mean, if you watch that, I mean I had to be the most uncomfortable human on the planet in front of the camera. It was, It's just awful. I did a thing on
this new seventeenth tee at Saint Andrew's. I had, like my dad hold the video camera uh years ago, and it was awful. And so I obviously needed to to kind of improve. And I had a couple opportunities to come to me the same year from from a couple of from Golf Channel and from the startup and back of my network and they kind of came to me and I had a couple of auditions, and yeah, I got this job. And you know, it was so weird.
I mean, you know, to take a chance, you know, if you think back on and taking a chance on somebody like me was silly. I mean it was. There's I mean, there's no reason too. I mean I had no idea what I was doing. You know, I'd never really read a teleprompter before.
I no no bad habits.
Though, you know I had. I had this weird lip thing for a while where I would lick my lips a lot. Uh, and it drove me crazy, drove my wife really crazy. So you know there's stuff like that that you've got to break. But yeah, it was it was nice. I mean, I I I had the opportunity. I mean, you know, you think back on opportunities in your life that are that that work out in your favor, and getting this chance at this place that it only
lasted whatever four months. I mean I got to talk about golf for an hour a day every day, and I was kind of like the voice of the show. Plus I got a chance to go on their other shows with guys like John McGinnis and Jeff Rude and you know real golf people, you know, guys that like have been in the industry playing or writing for decades, and they'd ask me to come on the show once a week or twice a week. And you know, I mean, I know everybody talks about reps. I know that you
you've talked about reps with your podcast. You and I've had this conversation before. It's like going back and listen to one of your first podcasts. You know, the reps are real. I mean, you know, hitting range balls is real. And it was it was that was that was kind of where it went. And then opportunity presents itself with with Fox the moment kind of back nine ceased to
exist and Fox picks this thing up. And luckily I'm in the northeast and luckily Mark Loomis lives an hour and a half away, and we just so happened to go play golf one day, and you know, that kind of stuff falls in your lap. So you know, it's you know, now when you kind of even the way I say it, you know, when you think about circumstances in the U in kind of the walk through the life thing it is. It is nuts how certain things like kind of almost you know, work together in tandem.
You know, yeah, I mean half of it's like it's just that timing of luck and opportunities, you know, and being in the right place at the right time is just so.
And you're you're your example this too. I mean, you know, I know you're one of my favorite people in golf. I mean, I know you know that. But you know, if you come around five years later, you know there might be somebody that, you know, architecture talk has already
you know, blown up. I'd say, I'm sure you're part of it to a certain extent, but you know, if you come around five years later or so you're five years younger or something like that, you know, there might have been some guy that starts this whole talk about it and and you've got to kind of like find your find the crease in that conversation. And yet, you know, you come around a time where people want to talk
about golf courses. People realize that golf courses don't have to be this name to be cool, and you have this kind of audience that loves listening to that point. You know, like me and it's opened my eyes to it too. You know that that's something that's so funny to me, is like like a Yamen's Hall that I had a very lucky opportunity to go play, you know, a place like that, I might not even know what it was, you know, six or seven years ago before I kind of cared about looking a little bit deeper
into the story. So yeah, that's how it works, and you know, that's what worked for me, And you know, it's it's been awesome to do the USGA stuff because you don't just have to talk about one tour, and that I think is something that we all really like is that every single week that we have, we've got a completely different group of people to talk about. And maybe a billion people aren't watching like they're going to watch the US Open. But that's okay, you know, I mean,
our job is just to talk about it. You know. Our job isn't to go find people to come watch the US Junior Amateur. But we like talking about the US Junior Anmeter because it's these young kids that one day we're probably going to see at a different level. So that's what's been cool about what we do.
Do you feel like I had never had thought about this, But do you do you guys, Taylor the broadcast differently for the US Open, knowing that you have, you know, millions of casual fans versus say, like the US Senior Women's Open, where you know, like only diehard fans watching.
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, you know, I don't want to speak for our producer in Joe and Zinger and those guys, you know, but I would say that there was a lot of people on Friday afternoon of the US Open that we're complaining on social media about our coverage because we were showing too much Tiger. And it's one of those things like we're going to show Tiger's round on a Friday, you know, with Tiger playing on a US Open for the first time and actually
having a chance to be competitive. Granted he wasn't competitive at that US Open because he made a triple on the first hole, but you know, for him to be healthy and have a chance to win events headed in and to be this big story coming in and the group he was playing with, you know, that was going to be the story we were going to tell on a Friday. You know, We're not going to spend that much time on a Sunday if you hadn't made a cut, because the focus in the story there is about the
person that's winning. But you know, on Friday, I mean, we've got we've got casual sports fans that are tuning in to see Tiger Woods play and you know, with not many storylines happening at that time, you know, that's
the way we're going to go down. And if that, you know, if a diehard golf person wants to see you know, Eduardo, you know Mullinari play a hole, it's like, you know, I mean, I hate to do this too on a Friday, but you're just gonna have to wait around for the weekend because that's when you're gonna have a chance to see that stuff.
Yeah, I mean I see it because I got all my college buddies are like non golfers. There are golfers, but they're very very very very casual golfers, And like our group text like I only get texts about golf win. Tiger's in the hunt exactly like and they're like, what
do you think do you think he's gonna win? And it's like, you know, like that makes me realize, like how like it gets you out of the bubble that you live in as a diehard golfer or covering golf, And it's so important to have the perspective of, like, hey, like this is really important for the majority of our audience, because like you know, that's the that's the majority of those that us open Fridays. I mean, you get, it's a chance to expose so many people to the game.
Right and it's and it's prime time, and it's you know, outside New York and it's on this it's kind of the only it was the only I mean, with the World Cup not yet starting with the NBA playoffs and NHL Playoffs being done. You know, we were the we were the game that week. You know, we were the sports game. And uh and you're like, you know, people
are going to turn on something that night. And if you're a sports fan and you see Golf Live, you know on Fox, it's like I'm going to turn this on and Tiger Woods is there, You're not going to turn it off, you know. So, I mean there's definitely a business component to that stuff, and there's definitely a level of showcasing those types of players at those times.
And as you said, I mean, when we get to the women's Senior or the you know, girls junior or the boys junior, you know, we're going to show the golf that's happening in the competitive matches. It's funny. You know. We had and it was it the US Amter. Yeah, it was US ambiteror last week, and you know, we only have so many cameras and we only have so much staff out there for these events because people might not know this, but to put on a golf telecast
that actually costs money and so I didn't know that. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it. And there was one match at the end that we weren't showing at all early and there were people on Twitter that were kind of and there was like two people on Twitter that were complaining to us about it. But you know, I mean, I get it if it's your friend or your buddy out there playing, and we want to showcase everybody. And we're going to eventually get to that because we have a window.
We're going to have to show these matches and it's going to be if it's the last match out, it's going to be the one that fills. But it's just so funny. Some of the times you get the people that complain about certain stuff and you're like, we're showing commercial free coverage of the US Amateur from Pebble with some of these camera angles that nobody's ever seen yet they're still going, why are you not showing this match? Like sorry, man, I mean, Cole Hammer's playing, you know,
Cole Hammers like this next? What we to be kind of the next you know, big thing in young American golf. It's like, if he's playing a match and he's playing, well, we're probably gonna show a lot.
Of his match that could something else, huh.
I mean just that match, that semi final match, and I had I had the the the US Amateur champion on on my podcast, but you know, chatting with him a little bit about that. That match between those two, Victor and Cole that was as good a golf as I've seen this year. I mean, they were playing unbelievable and they were making putts on top of each other, and you know, Cole Hammer hung in there and Victor
hovelin Berdie's his last five holes, you know. I mean, it's it's just a reminder to people, as I always say, these amateurs are amateur by word only you know, with how much they practice in every all of the technology they have around themselves, they've got the ability to go out there and fire numbers. I mean, you look at it. Braden Thornberry, who you know nearly wins you know, a
PGA Tour event. I mean, there's these guys out there that that are really really close to being on that level, if not already to that level, and they're going to get to that level quick the moment they turned professional. And it's just a big, big difference than what golf looked like ten years ago.
I mean, look at Nieman. He's nineteen, he should be a freshman in college, and.
He's unbelievable professionally. It's just stupid. It's it's there's a level of confidence, and I wonder I'd love to know if college coaches teach confidence in a different way, or if they push confidence in a different way these days, then maybe what they used to, you know, I mean, you hear Paul Easinger talk a lot about the way he played when he was, you know, in college, and how he he always says he couldn't break seventy seven.
But you know, this is a guy that was one of the best players in the world for a long time, and you know that's not the case now. I mean, if you're in college and you're shooting If you're in college and you're shooting seventy five, you know, you're probably not going to make the team ever, you know. And that's just how that goes until you figure it out.
So I just wonder if there's a different conversation and a different dialogue with the coaches now to say, you know, you've got to be great now, Like you can't be good, You've got to be great now, because that's what it's going to take.
It's crazy because you see it. I see it on like at like a state level, like these kids and what's happened with like amateur golf, Like if you don't shoot like I remember when I was in college, Like if I shot seventy seven, I was in the State AM, you know, right, And nowadays it's like if you got to shoot even par or better to get into the state amp, you know. And there's so many kids that
are so good. I mean, I played golf with a kid that's going to Illinois next year, you know, at his USAM qualifier, he shot ten under over two rounds, and I'm just like, I don't have ten I never have done under the bag and this kid has at eighteen.
No, it's it's it's silly, and it's only getting younger. I always say when I play in those USAM or qualifiers,
us OAM qualifiers, whatever. And you know, I live in Arizona, so a lot of SU kids, or if I'm done in two, so on, a lot of you of A kids, And they all hang around after not because they want to see what their friends shot or their teammates what they shot, but it's because they know their teammates shot something good enough to at least be in the conversation, and they're just waiting to see what that number is. That's what's crazy. Is it's not hey would you shoot? Hey,
how'd you play? It's it's you know, how low was it? Was it four? Was it five? It's it's an expectation to go out there and do it. And I think that's why you're seeing so many amateurs in these events, you know, I mean there's there's nineteen amateurs or twenty nine ameters at the US Open. It was crazy how many of those guys there were, and they get there expecting to do well. You know, it's not just to show up and get your pending and walk around between
the ropes and smile of fans. I mean they're there expecting to make the weekend and to play well enough to get in the conversation. And I said it this year and it was wrong. But I'll tell you this, we are going to get to a place at some point where I truly believe an amateur is going to be at least not maybe in the hunt come the weekend, but I could see, you know, at top ten or a couple of amateurs in the top ten in the coming years, because the confidence level just continues to soar.
I've kind of been waiting for an amateur when at like the professional level. You know, a couple of years ago we had Paul in the final group of the Open. Then we had Morikawa was in a playoff on a web tour, and Thornberry Sam Burns was head of top ten. Both those guys, you know, like it's it's just a matter of time before one of these kids wins one of these things.
Didn't Summer Hayes win something as an amateur.
I think he won a web. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm.
With you, but it's you know what's funny is I'm reading the match right now and I've never read it before.
Yeah, somebody wanted to know what took you so long. That's a question from Mike McGee.
People that were not happy about that, and I'm like, listen, sorry, I just I mean, I've just never got around reading it and and I'm reading it right now, and it's funny. You know, the dialogue about the amateur golfer in that book. Of course, you know this is happening in the in the in the thirties and the forties and the fifties, but the dialogue around the idea of the amateur was
this gentleman game, and it's it's turning. It's not because the golf's going back to this gentleman level of I'm going to be an amate golf because it's you know, you can make more money there, for goodness says we know that's not true, but I do. I'm very interested in the amateur competing in these events again, because I truly think there's a chance that this could be a thing.
I mean, what do you think, you know, the the USGA would do in the Buddy Marucci's of the world would do if we had an amateur the final group of the US Open. I mean, it would be unbelievable. I mean it would be it would It would almost it would make you know, kind of their decision for all these years. It would make it almost kind of like worth the weight to see if this could happen,
because I truly think it could. I think we could see an amateur maybe not win, but I could definitely see an amateur compete.
Yeah, I think.
I mean, look at I mean, like Cole Hammer is a perfect example. You know, he's uh Texas. You know, he's kind of like the next phenom for Texas after they had you know, Speith was the young phenom and then they had Hostler, who is you know. Hostler is like a good example of that because he was in contention at that US Open at Olympic.
Club, right.
So, I mean it's a matter of time. I mean, it's the whole amateur game has changed. It's it's a fascinating thing with like mid ams and and ams and like I think the gap between you know, the mid am and the and the regular am, which is now college kids and high schoolers is getting wider than ever.
I absolutely agree. I mean it's like I love trying to do the USA and are qualifying, but it's like, like, I got will you do it out there with those guys? Come on, Like it is a waste of my time. It's like I get out there and I shoot, Like you said, I shoot a great round of seventy six. I'm like, all right, well see you guys, and I sixty four.
Yeah.
Well that's the thing is like seventy two seventy is I remember that, even like four years ago I had I had a good USAM where I missed by like a shot, and I shot I think, I want to say shot seventy three seventy one, you know, And and it's like nowadays that's like just like pack up your bags. You got no chance. You're like trunk slamming. I mean, the kids are trunk slamming at that and that was like five years ago.
Uber slamming. They're uber slamming. They'll get out of there.
Yeah.
So in terms of amateur golf, you know, it seems like you had a great time at the AM. Do you do you think more amateur golf coverage is coming.
I would like to see it, you know, the Golf Channel, I mean, you know, for US, I mean, obviously we do quite a bit of am or golf. I am actually surprised the Golf Channel doesn't do more of it. I mean, I'm surprised that the Western AM's not televised. I'm surprised. I'd be I would. I don't understand why there's not. And I mean do they call them amateur majors? I mean, can we talk about what a major would
be at ander Golf? But there's you know, there's four or five events that you could do the coverage from start to finish, and kudo's to Golf Channel on the collegiate coverage, they do a great job with that, and I just feel like, why wouldn't you do this? Because you know, the US Amateur's my favorite event we cover all year. I mean, and it's not even close. I mean,
both the Women's and the US Amateur. The storylines, the play, the names that come out of it, the names you remember, the guys you see when they're fourteen and fifteen, they get through that eventually are eighteen and are competing. You know, you think about our first US Open cole Hammer's a fifteen year old US Open gets into that, and now he's the favorite coming into the US Amateur and he's
a co medalist. You know, I love watching and walking those storylines through year after year, and I don't see how passionate golf people wouldn't be into that. I mean, again, you know there's budgets for television stuff and live events. Live golf is the biggest budget of any sport because there's so many cameras you need on different places. But I'd watched the Western Dam. I mean, you've watched the Western Dam. I'd be glued to it, you know. I mean,
this would be must watch TV for me. And with the with the way the PGA Tour is going to the passionate golf fan and the level of kind of intrigue that comes with the PJ Tour or lack thereof, I mean, I think we're going to be looking for more golf to watch on TV. And to me, amer Golf makes the most sense it.
I feel like they could do low budget telecast do like we saw it when the guys were on strike this year, rise as Sony, Like they really only need a couple cameras to do it effectively, you.
Know, yeah, yeah, I mean it's yeah. I mean, I guess you're right like to see it. Sure, I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody in TV that would that would be willing to kind of take the we're going to do a low budget approach to it. But you know, you you do the back nine of the Western I mean, you know, you don't have to have as many cameras. It's almost like the Masters in the old days. I think if that happened, inevitably, more invites would come for that stuff.
You know.
That's something I always wish would happen. I wish there was more more invites to things for these guys that win these huge events, because these huge events are very, very hard to win. You know, the Western am is, in my opinion, the hardest event in the world to win, professional or amateur or otherwise. And you should get invited to this big stuff if you win that thing. It's crazy.
Yeah, I don't understand getting.
The US Open and the Masters in the PG Championship like that should be an honor to come with it. And I feel like if the TV, if TV followed that, maybe there'd be a better chance of that happening.
Yeah, it would be cool, I think with I think it's we're going to see more of it in the future. It would be you know, there's like, I don't know, the Pacific Coast AM is always a big one, you know, the Sonnyanna. You know, there's there's North South, like there are a lot of really cool events that these kids are so good, that's the thing, you know. You like, I watched the Western AM. I didn't go this year.
I had a bunch of stuff, but the year before, you know, and these guys go around and shoot like sixty three at Skochie in Chicago, which is like, like sixty three is like not what I expected.
You know, it's it's it's a joke. But no, I you know again, you know, I love being a part of something like the US Open because it's the US Open, but you know, for me to to get a chance to do these you know, quote unquote lower level events at the US Junior or the Curtis Cup, things like that, you know, the passion in those events, the passion of the golf and the passion of the win, and it's simply being a match win, you know, winning a mansion
moving on. You know, the passion there is what to me you and I is Golf's like now, the golf's better. But if I'm playing you for a ten dollars NASA, we're not really playing for the money, you know, We're really playing for to the win.
Yeah yeah, pick up basketball. It's like why you get past it's the competitiveness in terms of what do you think the you you do the PGA Tour live stuff, so you're around the tour pros. What what do you think the biggest difference between the top ams and the your regular Joe Schmo tour player, say you're Billy Horsechell.
It's probably putting, and it's probably course management, I would say. I mean, there's not a ton of course management even on the PGA Tour anymore, but there's still a little bit of it, you know. I mean, I mean, I know brooks Keefka doesn't really do that, but you know, there is a level of understanding when to attack and when not to. And I think you still see amateurs at times, in big pressure moments, maybe make a decision they shouldn't have made because they think they've got to
win that hole and that's the last time. You know what's funny is is I saw a lot of that with putting this week, or excuse me, this past week with Pebble Beach. Was I saw a lot on the greens when a guy's two down or three down with five to go and it's a birdie putt and they gas at twelve feet by because they think they have to make the birdie putt, not thinking themselves. If I
three putt this, I'm oh, it's over. You know. Even if I don't make this BIRDI putt and I've got a couple to go, I could pull something off.
That's a fascinating thing that I think. I like, I always think about, like how I've learned about stuff, like as I get older, Like I'm so much smarter now. I'm not nearly as good as I used to be, but I'm way better, if that makes sense, right, And like one of the things people will be like, well, like, hey, you know, if I'm playing a two man game, they'll be like, this this putt.
If it doesn't go in, it doesn't matter.
And I'm like, and I say back, I'm like, it's going in the same speed as if it was going to go in. If this if the next putt really mattered, Like, I don't believe in this whole making putts like you hit it harder to make it, Like, just hit the putt the same speed you'd usually hit it, you.
Know, absolutely, you know that's something that I do, and I've done poorly in especially best ball qualifiers. My buddy Ashton Woods and I have yet to qualify for the four ball. I think we missed out by a shot a couple of years ago. But I tend I feel like I have at times felt like these putts are do or die when I'm the guy hitting a birdie putt, and if I was playing just by myself, I wouldn't
do that. So I've almost started to try to approach those types of things, a two man thing in particular, just trying to play golf all my own, thinking that it's you know, it's exactly what it'd be like if it was a strokeplay event, because there's so much pressure. Oh my god, I'm the last one with a BIRDI putt. I well, I've got to make it, you know, And you're like, well, yeah, but I mean you want to make every putty you hit, don't you, So why wouldn't you just roll the same way.
You're trying to make every part right exactly.
I mean you're trying to make You're trying to make every putt or that that's makeable, right. I mean there's definitely puts you know you're not that aren't a realistic opportunity. But yeah, you're trying to make every puts, So hit it, hit it to make it, but also hit it knowing that you know it's it's got to go in, as you said, with a certain speed. You're not just taking the breakout in gas and a ten foot you know.
I heard somebody told me that they their trick for the two the best ball tournaments as they play a mat against each other.
What's that? Any starts say that again?
I heard this trick.
This guy told me he's he's had a ton of success in two man tournaments and him and his partner play matches against each other.
Interesting, so internally between the two they play against, they have like they have probably.
For me, they have like a betting game between the two of them during while they're playing together in a tournament. So the other each other are just trying to beat the ship out of each other.
The whole time. Yeah. I mean it's probably so smart. I mean, and then you get done and you go we either qualified or we didn't, but we had fun doing it. There's Yeah. The idea that is it gets uh, the pressure can the pressure can make you play golf a way you never play golf. And it's that's the big difference in people that can do it and people that can't.
You know, Yeah, it's all it's all comfort.
That's the thing is like the pressure makes you uncomfortable, and uncomfortable is when people just do bad. It's that's the that's the trick to tournament off is getting comfortable.
I mean there's been plenty of times where I'm not comfortable and the scores absolutely reflected.
Yeah, it's awful.
There's nothing worse than when you're on the first t and you know you're not ready.
To play in the tournament.
So what was your favorite course to cover this year on the USGA circuit And what was your favorite course that you played either USGA or non USGA course.
I'm not saying it's just because I'm talking to you. I mean, I think covering Chicago golf, getting a chance to see it for a first time, getting a chance to show it with the cameras we had and allow people kind of a glimpse into that place. I think, you know, there's probably two or three places in the country that maybe or as exclusive in the sense of eyeballs on at the Chicago Golf So I think mixing that with the fact that it was a first USGA championship and you were a part of that, that was
pretty special. I felt like our team kind of approached it that way. You know, they went in to it knowing, you know, this is this is gonna be the you know, there's not many first USGA championships, and to get it, to get to do it on Chicago Golf and then my favorite course I played on the road, you know, I played. Didn't play a ton of golf this year. Last year we played golf all the time. It was crazy.
I mean we played Prairie Dunes twice one week. Last year, we played Myopia and Essex and all these crazy places. This year, didn't play a ton of golf. I did get a chance to play Fishers during media Day, and I think, you know, just in the sense of a day and an experience, that was probably the best, just because you know, there's you know, there's going to play an elite level golf course that's in elite level condition.
Fishers is not going to be an elite level condition just because it's just that's just not what it is. You know, It's it's in it's in good condition, and it's a piece of property that I've always wanted to see. And you know, we did the whole thing. We did the ferry and the boat and the driving and so it's an entire day to go see this kind of gem of a golf course. So that was probably my favorite. I had a hell of a good time doing that.
And then you know, I mean I got I got to play you know, I got to play in that National and Cypress. You know, I mean these are two of the best golf courses in the country, and so I mean you kind of take your pick on those. I almost feel like they're kind of similar, you know, they're they're a small, smaller ballparks next to these championship golf courses that host championship events. Yet they're the ones
that everybody tries to get on. You know, everybody wants to get on National and everybody wants to get on Cypress. Overplaying a pebble, and so you know, that's what you know. People I had a friend asked me, is Cyprus your favorite course you ever played? And you know, I don't know what that means. I don't know what my favorite course is. I know what my favorite experiences were, and I almost vote, voted and rate it more on that.
You know, the experiences of the people you're with and how much they're into it, and how fun you're having and how much you're taking in the course. You know, how often are you pulling out a camera? I think is something that is that I've really started to be cognizant of. And I know, with you and i's jobs and with plenty of people around, that's part of it.
So one of my kind of rules is, like I I try to pull I try not to look at my or pull my phone or camera out at least on the entire front nine, because I know it's you know, we live in a world where we have to kind of post this stuff. But I don't want to be on that, you know, I want to be breathing in and looking around and enjoying the experience.
So my new thing is, like I love the places that are like the strictest about no cell phones. I actually like I love when I leave my phone in my car and it's just gone and I just get.
To play golf.
You know.
That's it's funny how it's changed, how golf isn't like just pure golf like it.
Used to be. Well, and but you know the thing again is, you know, for me, you know, I've kind of got I got to post the golf that I play because it's part of what we do, and I have I'm with you, I've kind of gone one ady on it. I mean, I don't I hate. I hate. I hate interrupting a moment of a round at a place like Cyprus to take a picture, even though I want to take pictures because every hole is awesome, you know.
So you know, I want to have my phone out the entire time, but I I won't, and I don't need to because you know, when when when freaking Ben Hogan was walking around Cyprus Point, he wouldn't taken pictures, you know, and he could remember every hole on every step and every bump on every green because he was taking it in with different sensory details, and so like you know, for me, it's it's reminding myself that a
picture doesn't define the fact that I was there. You know, I don't need a picture to say I played Cyprus point. I played Cyber's point because I played Cyber's point And There'll be moments from that round that I remember the rest of my life. And uh. And so I'm trying, I'm with you. I'm really really trying to be on my phone, if at all, maybe one or two holes to take a picture or two and then put it back away.
Yeah.
So with uh, with pebble, Uh and next year having the US Open, do you expect to see much changes to the course from us AM to US Open?
And Uh?
How how helpful was it to get to call it there and then have it there?
Next year, the rough will be higher and the roff will be thicker. It'll it'll play a little bit different, just in the sense of scheduling. It was dry this week. I mean they hadn't had rains since April, so it was dried and pretty firm, and the greens were firm. I'm hoping you see a little bit about that. We'll have well, I think we'll have more. I think the winds will be more swirly when we're there. We didn't get a ton of wind during the few days there
at Pebble, but I would say the roughs up. Having an opportunity to be there and cover it and get a feel for the way people play certain holes in certain shots and teas they might play certain days. I mean it's impossible to explain how beneficial that is for us. I mean, it's crazy good. I mean, we know where the booth is, like, we know where the boot's gonna be. You know, we know where these amateur kids, where these
kids are hitting their driver on eighteen. I mean, you'll never in fifty years of watching the AT and T you'll never see draws where these kids were on eighteen, just because it's a different time of year. I mean, they were thirty past the tree, forty past the tree hidden six irons and eighteen green. I mean, so it'll be interested to see if it plays a little like that in June, like it did, you know, in August. So,
but you know, I think we'll see it. I think we'll see it play somewhat similar in the sense of scoring, because with the winds down, Pebble's gettable, and with the winds up it plays really difficult.
Yeah, yeah, and I think those greens are so small too.
It's just crazy how tough that place is. For that's a great example of a course offending part despite like without yardage.
Yeah. Absolutely, it's not a long golf course by any stretch of the imagination. But if you put yourself in one weird spot, you know, if you put yourself left on nine or ten, it's you're you're scrambling to save par despite having a note iron in your hand.
Yeah, this is the thing too, is like the uneven lies out there like that. You know, you rarely have like a flat lie. It's something I've noticed I play less and less golf now, and I like, I know I actually play like par three's exceptionally well.
And I thought about it the other day.
I was like, well, it's because it's like a dead flat lie every time, you know, And it's like it gets so much harder when the ball is like above or below your feet and you know you have like a It's so weird how that little difference makes it. But that that at the pro levels, like everything if it's everything's flat, it's just target practice for these guys.
Yeah, it's like when it's it's like when it's soft. You know what I want to say this about pebble. I used to talk a little bit of trash about one, like everybody did. And you know two and it's a par five is kind of a gettable, kind of a whatever. Par five. Pebble's awesome. It is awesome. There are like it is. It is such an awesome walk around and the views in the in the par threes, you know, the kind of the different par threes you play, in the shots you play. You know, I hadn't been there
in a while. I hadn't been a pebble probably in six or seven years. And I just walking around that place and drive around, you just you just forget how how strategic fifteen and sixteen are. You know, these are holes that you're not going to see the ocean, but they're there. You've got to put the ball in the right spot to take advantage, and the greens defend, like you said, and I was. I was massively impressed by it.
I don't spend a lot of time watching the pro am on TV just because it's a lot of it's a lot of non golf they show. But getting a chance to kind of take that golf course in for a few days of the Championship Golf Man, I was I'm pumped for the US Open. I think it's gonna be so awesome.
Yeah, the is like overrated.
Take is so overblown, Like exactly, It's like it's in this tier of golf courses, like I don't think about like numbers, but rather like classes. And it's like Pebble is the golf course that you get on a plane and go play, you know, like if somebody says, hey, we got a spot at Pebble and you don't have to pay, like I'm getting on a plane tomorrow to go play.
Absolutely absolutely, there's you know, there's six or seven holes of pebble that are basically untouched. You know, there's nothing that can really touch them, and and that's what makes it fun. Also, the new T on ten is awesome. I hope they played the new T the new T on ten, but I bet they don't, but I wish they would.
They have that one on nine too, that's way down to the right. I think I don't know if they used it last week, but yeah, that stretch of holes is unbelievable. So it's like it's probably the best stretch of golf and you know, one of the best stretch of off in North America. So I had KVV on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, and we talked about Golf Star and what changes we would make to the game. If you were the Golf Star, what's the one change you'd make?
I would I would not be as afraid of match play on the professional level as it seems like we are. I would say that would probably be my first thing I would. I would I would move to PG Championship to match play immediately. I would probably make the Tour Championship match play.
Yeah, that should totally be match play.
I mean, I was thinking about the playoff because I knew were going to talk a little playoffs and match plays fear. It's TV based, of course, but you know the match play fears. You get two guys that nobody cares about in the finals, and then you're gonna get bad ratings. The funny thing is, like the Tour Championships thirty guys, and they're always pretty much ninety five percent of guys you've heard of. I just don't understand what
the fear is of that. You know, seems like the easiest event to make match play is a tour championship.
They're worried about, like the Satoshi Kadeira against Seawou cam in the finals.
But but again, I mean, but that's you know, I mean seem on the players like, yeah, it's like the fear again the golf.
To me, the names are massively important. We talked about Tiger on Friday at the US Open, and showing him was big for golf and for the sport. But you know, when you're playing, when you're watching anybody play for a ton of a life changing amount of money, even for these professionals, and you're watching in a mass play format, God, it would be so awesome. I mean you look back, like, you know, the FedEx Pil playoffs when they first started, a little bit like the pebble take, it was easy
to bag on them. I flipped a little bit on them. You know, it's four weeks. I wish they didn't have the break. I wish it was just four straight because I think it should be a little bit of an endurance test as well. But you know, four weeks and all the big guys play for four straight weeks, and I'm not sure that happens at any other time on tour all year. And also if you look back over the last few years, we've had some really fun finishes. I mean Ryan Moore versus Rory was great, that Sander
was great. You know, Justin was closed and Jordan had a chance to maybe make it a Justin Jordan playoff for the FedEx Cup, which would have been would have been must have watched. You know. It's it's it's good, it's for what it's supposed to do. It's intriguing. I just think that if you made the Tour Championship match play, you get to that final with a lot more online than than anything else. These guys seeing that in that world, Yeah, you could.
Go to thirty two guys instead of sixteen exactly, instead of thirty So you go to thirty two and then you take those thirty two and it's thirty two sixteen eight four two, so it'd be five rounds and so it starts on like starts on Wednesday instead of.
Thursday.
Yeah, and then you and then you you make you make the gaps of pay pretty wide for make it at the next day. So like if you get to the final four, the gap is is it's a big, big jump it's not like everybody's cashing a ton of money. You should make the gaps worthwhile. I mean, not like these guys need the money anyway, but at least it's
something they think about in their heads. But I don't know that's something I would do that the professional world being afraid of match play is something that bothers me a little bit because it's something that match play is, in my opinion, the best way to golf. And uh and we as a people, for whatever reason, have we're like afraid of it. You know, it's like we have to turn in scores, we have to have a handicap. I would I would say golf carts in general, I
would probably limit. I just think, you know, if you want to have golf carts on every course, you you probably shouldn't have a golf cart at any historic golf course and unless you know, obviously someone needs it for health reasons. And and I would just say, you know, walking is walking a golf course is a completely different experience, and as long as it's not a million degrees, it makes the game and sport more enjoyable. I really believe. I'm trying to think of what else I would let
the PJ Tour players wear shorts too. I don't understand why they have to wear pants.
You might get a personal call from Jeff Shackelford.
I mean, that was that was one of my favorite things I said something about. I joked on that tweet about how the NBA players wear shorts in the finals and how that's disgraceful obviously, just kind of poking fun of Jeff, who I like a lot. And I had four or five responses to people that were like, that's not the same, and I was like, yeah, you didn't get my joke. It's funny how Twitter sometimes you can't you can't totally pick up on it. I'm trying to think of some other stuff that I would do. I
just I'm just in this camp. The golf's fine, you know, like like I think people that love golf love golf, you know, and people are eventually going to get to it. I've said this a lot, but we spent like the better part of the two thousands trying to get people that were like sixteen years old interested in golf, and I'm like, they're going to eventually be thirty and they'll be looking for something to do.
That's all my friends and now are played golf all the time on weekends and they always want I'm like, I can't play, but like they all like love golf. In college, they all made fun of me for playing golf.
Right, I just say, wait, I mean, if we just wait a little bit, people eventually come to the sport. It's funny that, you know, we sold this bill of goods like golf in Trouble, and it's like, well, we build a whole bunch of golf courses and a lot of them aren't very good, and they're expensive and it takes forever to play. Those are the things that to me.
It's like, you know, you and I were having drinks and we were talking about winter Park in when we were in Chicago, and it's like, winter Park's successful because of the business model. It's not because of anything other than the fact that it allows people to come out there any way they want for a relatively solid amount
of money and enjoy themselves in their capacity. And it's not like get here and it's three hundred dollars and you're on the tea now and you've got to play it this fast and you've got to get done, and we're gonna yell at you and then leave the property because that's the end of your day. You know. It's just to me, it's the business approach to it. And if you approach it with a little bit more of a relaxed kind of ideal, then I think it would work.
I just I mean, if you want me to be bizarre, I'd say, build fifty winter parks in every state.
You know.
It's like, allow people that opportunity to take in golf.
Yeah, it's just different experience. I think just in general, Yeah, I.
Think golf, like golf needs to just appeal to like the die hard golfer, because like, the more somebody's friend loves golf, the more likely they're going to make their friends come golf with them. You know, they're going to keep talking about it until they try it, you.
Know, and they're gonna want to check courses off their list and destinations and places to go and see this and experience that. And you know that's what that's what my friends, my friends love of the game is not watching Jordan Speed, no offense to Jordan Speed, and it's not watching Phil Mickelson, and it's not watching Dustin Johnson. You know, my friends love my friends who are my best friends. Their love of golf is you know, I sent an email yesterday about our golf trip to Tubac,
Arizona in early January. You know, that's why they love golf, you know, for the for the three days they get to spend at a twenty seven hole facility that most people don't know much about, just enjoying golf and the people around it. That's kind of what I talk about with the courses. You know, it's the experience of it as much as anything. And if you're having a fun experience and golf is involved, it's going to leave you
with a good taste in your mouth, you know. And and it's that's that's a pretty simple, you know, simple philosophy. I think that's why Bannon has always been so popular. You know. I think Bannon so popular because, yeah, it's a name, and it's a resort name that people know when they could buy a shirt from and wear a logo. But I think the fact that when you're there, you a don't feel like you're intruding, and b you have
plenty of places to just enjoy yourself. If it's not the Preserve, its shorties or the driving range or the nineteenth Hole, or the kind of the different layouts of the pubs, or it's going back to the cottage and just sitting down in a fairly relaxing chair that doesn't seem like it cost a billion dollars and you just kind of take in the weather and you know that that is to me, it's it's a it's a simple approach, sure, but you know, you leave that place feeling good, even
if you played bad, you leave the place feeling good.
Yeah, it's uh, and it's it's just it's uh catered towards the the masses as opposed to you know, the the one percent professional like the you know, I'm not going to beg too much on TPC network, but you know, the idea of playing a off course and it's built for pros, like as a fifteen handicap is like, that's just a preposterously dumb idea.
You know, just go get your teeth kicked in for two hours or four hours, five hours.
It's so funny you and I talked about it a lot. It's so funny that, like I mean, for decades, Andy, for decades, the only places you really went with these places that would beat the shit out of you. You're like, hey, let's go on this golf trip to X place, and you go when it's seventy four hundred and it's impossible and two yards off the fairway is is you lose your ball? And you're like, I spent a lot of money on this trip.
Yeah, and it's just like the first reaction is hard, Like I can't stand that. It's it's the worst thing in the world. But uh, speaking of match play, Ryder Cup coming up, who's winning? If you gounder your head today?
Oh man, I mean, I guess I'll go us. I know it's been a long time. I think it's going to be more competitive than maybe some of my fellow golf journalism people believe it will be. I know there's been some people that are saying it's going to be an American route. I don't think it's ever going to be an American route when it's on international soil. But the American team is from one through twelve is silly good?
I mean, And that is what you always see when it's competitive, is who wins those matches or the guys that play, you know, one team match and play singles and when it comes down to that. On Sunday and singles, when everybody's out on the golf course, I almost feel like there'll be four fairly assured points from the guys that are on the bottom part of the roster. Now, I mean, of course they could lose the match, anybody could, but I feel like if you were going to look
at that, that's where the handicap is on. A very very advantageous side for the Americans is the guys that are just going to make the team, the guys that just qualified in, or the guys that have to be asked to play. And you know, it's the thing the Internet, the thing that Europe has that they can play the hand of if they do it the right way. Is
basically just play their four best teams every time. And I mean that'll be exhausting, but I think that's probably their best play is to play the guys that are from the same countries that'll be excited to play together and almost almost allow those teams to go out there until they lose, you know, and say, Rory, if you want to play with Ian Poulter like you did four years ago, y'all go play together, and y'all are the team that are going to play four matches, and like
that's how it's going to go down. And the same for Stinson and Norin. You know if they if Stinson's on the team, it's like, you two guys go play. I mean, you guys want to play together. Y'all play. Y'all are going to be our B team.
And what about Justin Rose and Stinson, the icemann in Ross, that's the team?
Okay, Well that's what I'm saying is like, whatever the team is, you go with. Like I think that because of this, because the Americans are better him through twelve. If I was the Europeans, I would probably just play the I would probably just play our four best teams.
Yeah, Like Molinari's got to play every single.
Every single match. Yeah, every match he's playing.
He's like one of the three best players in the world right now.
And like and like you know, I mean like John Rahm, who hasn't had as good as year as he's had in years past. But you know, Rom's got to find somebody he's gonna be excited to play with. And like you're gonna have to roll these big name players out a lot, and uh.
Rom should play with Sevy, you know, bring him back because he's idolized like any Spanish player.
Any Spanish player that's ever played. It's uh, you know, it's it's one of those things like who is it gonna be? Rom and Sergio? I mean, I guess I.
Don't know if Sergio is even making a team.
They'll probably get him on.
They have to put him on, right yeah, I think so, Like that's the thing is like Stenson Sergio Poulter is gonna have to be a pick now. Polter is like a lock right for sure. And then you know Sergio and Stenson are outside, you know, Cabrera bao Okay.
Shane Ryan, I think Shane Ryan wrote this, But like, what's wrong with me wanting to root for the Europeans because I kind of do want to root for the Europeans.
I kind of am rooting for the Europeans.
Also, I kind of.
I mean, like I feel like it's become such a popular opinion, like the America team's gonna roll, and it's like all like the perfectly cookie cutter players that are like massively successful, like Jordan and Justin and Brooks and all these guys that are like they're like perfect in golf, and I feel like it's almost flipped where it was like that was the team for the Europeans for so long, and we'd roll out these guys and you'd be like, maybe they have a chance, even though you knew they
probably didn't really have a chance. And I'll say, you know, with us covering these team events, I think that the team events are the easiest events to predict by looking at the teams on looking at the players on paper. You know, like we had the Walker Cup last year and there was no doubt in my mind the Americans were going to kill him and they did, and there was no doubt in my mind the Americans are gonna win when you just look.
At the players, you know, I think the European team has better personalities, agreed, you know they have they have Poulter, they have McElroy, They've got you know, like Fleetwood is like I think, impossible to route against. He's like him, Yeah, he's going to be a superstar. I think Noran's a
good dude, you know, like to root for. I don't know, I just think they have like a more like you know, Web and Bubba don't really do it for me, you know, like I don't have an I don't have an opinion really, you know, right.
I mean, like I love watching Ricky Fowler play golf. I do. I really enjoy watching Ricky play golf. But it's not like, you know, like he's not gonna be out on the course during the Ryder Cup like running around high fiving like Sergio in ninety nine. You know, like it's like I know what I'm getting with most of the guys on the American side.
Yeah, that's the thing, is like there's more personality on the on the European team. That's why they're more Why I feel like I want to root for him more.
I just like I guess, like my American allegiance, like I if there's if there's a thing, it's like I kind of think about it in the Olympics a lot. I'm always like I'm rooting for this American speed stater and there's this guy from Belgium that's gonna win like one of three Winter Olympic medals for his entire country, Like why I don't want that? Gotta win, that's this guy's gonna like change his entire life for the rest of his life. He wins and like the American person
with no personality wins. You're like, sweet, you know you're another American that was successful. I don't know. There's times where I sometimes I'm like, I'm rooting for the other dog. I really like the underdog.
That's a good point, because like a gold medal at a small in a small country is so much more significant than a gold medal in the US, because we get like one hundred gold medalists per Olympics every Olympics.
Yes, and there's three that. There's three Olympians every time that are like the ones that make the wheaties box. And then other than that, you're like, oh, that American team won the losee awesome. Sweet, And then you change the channel and you have no idea who the names were,
you know. For the most part, that's kind of my Molinari thing when so many people were bummed out on social media because Tiger didn't win the British and I was like, yo, this guy is the first player from Italy ever to win a major like this is unbelievable for their country and for golf there for the next two hundred years. And we're like, well, a tired didn't get fifteen, not.
To mention the manner he did it in, like Tiger made the charge. Like I remember I tweeted something and like it was like on whole seven. I was like, I think Molinari is the only guy that can ruin this for us, you know, and like so many people.
Were like, oh what about Rory?
What about Like you could just see Molinari just was playing perfect golf, you know, like he he won because he just outplayed everybody else.
That's the thing.
It's it's it's silly. But no, I I I'm really excited about the Ryder Cup. I'm really excited to see what transpires. And my hope to all hopes is that it's not a complete blowout because we don't get these things much. We don't get these things a professional golf that like peak everybody's interests much.
You know, mm hmm yeah.
I think the other thing, I'm excited to see French fans like what, what's the French golf turnout gonna be? Like what are are they gonna be polite? Are they gonna be really rude? Like are we gonna get like Baye by Bui and French?
Oh? I wonder what it is have you Google translated?
No, no, I just thought of this.
We should figure we should figure this out.
We should actually is Victor Duboissan gonna just run out onto the course?
I should have made it is there's gotta be a phrase that French golfers yell, and we should figure out what that is.
Yeah, I get some T shirts. You know.
That's we were walking around with it all in Chicago and end of September.
I love it. He's a great business idea.
So hey, uh, the two are we we're talking about all these young guys earlier? What's going to happen as this trend. I don't think it's slowing down. I think you agree it's not. So it's just going to get younger, right right? What happens to all the forty year olds?
I think the Champions Tour my move to forty five. And this is without any inside information, I could see it going to forty five.
Uh.
One of my contributors wrote this article that I'm in post soon and it's like the median age has dropped four years in the last you know, twenty years of pro golfers.
Well, you know, I wrote and this was this was when I wrote This was probably three or four years ago, four or five years ago, and I wrote, I did the math for like the last ten Majors, and the average age of major win it was thirty three. And that's obviously not the case now, you know, I mean Koepka and Speed and JT and these guys, like you're going to see a teenager win a major soon, You're gonna see I mean, like an eighteen year old. I mean,
you know, we talked about Niemen. I mean, he could win a major and nobody would bad an eye at all. But I don't know. I mean, I it's you know, what's funny is funny you asked this question. I was the US Amateur and then I'm reading the match and I'm I'm got this. I'm like super in on amateur golf right now. Like I'm like, I'm like, it's high on the cloud of amber golf I've ever been in
my life. And I was thinking about it. I was like, I'm going to really start to try to work on my game, and I want to like start playing in these amateur events, like I want to play, but not just the USA Amateur and the mid am I want to play in these other amateur events too, And then I was like thoughts to at I'm like, I'm thirty four, Like these guys are like seventeen. Like I can't play against these guys.
You gotta get on the cocktail circuit, man, you gotta get in the mid am circuit.
No, I know, but I was thinking to myself, I was like, this is this is an unrealistic thing for me to think about, you know, like we never at the US Amateur ever ever see somebody thirty four in the in the quarterfinals.
But that's the shame is there used to be like Nathan Smith and Mike McCoy.
Yeah, I mean Buddy Marucci played Tiger in nineteen ninety five and.
The finals and then he made it the semi finals the next year.
Yeah, I mean, that's unbelievable. These these like lifelong amateur Stuart Hagistead makes it to around the thirty two and it's like this story.
Yeah, and he's twenty eight, you know, yeah, like twenty eight.
It's like a miracle.
And I don't even think he's twenty. I think he's like twenty seven, twenty Yeah, he probably is twenty eight.
You're probably right, I think I remember it from our bio sheets. I'm sure he'll text me if I'm wrong on this.
I know he will touch both of us.
But yes, it's it's just yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy. So I have a question, and this is the one thing I don't really get. Why are they so much better? Why are these young kids so much better at golf?
I have this theory like me and you we grew up with. I mean, what was your first set of clubs, Like mine was like Tommy Armor eight forty fives and I remember playing like Slavesinger Golf Boss.
Yeah, I was my first full set of adult clubs were top flight magnas.
I remember the Yeah.
The globe in the middle of the ball that would actually imprint on a belt if you hit it solidly. And so there was a globe in the middle of the ball where your group were supposed to be. This is just approach to interesting approach to the sweet spot there top light and.
How far did you hit it when you were like fourteen, when you got into high school. Nowhere, this is a different like we did nowhere.
We had these.
Balls that didn't go anywhere, they went like they sliced like crap, like you know, you could hit a big slice, seventy yard slice and they went nowhere and it was like it was like you know pro. The other thing was like instructors would just guess, you know you're gonna love these, yeah, and they'd be like, oh, like you know you need to do this with your swing, like
there was no numbers behind. Like I just think that we live in this era where like you literally can't miss right, Like I swing so hard at the ball now compared to the way I used to swing right, like.
You had to manufacture golf shots. And you know what's funny is, dude, like I was watching the ninety nine Ryder Cup the other day and Miguel Jmenez hits this foul ball during play that's fifty yards left of everything and it went about knee high. And then I always think about stuff like Palmer and Norman on eighteen at the Masters hitting these shots thirty yards right of the green.
It's like nobody does that. Like Jordan Speed hit that shot when he won the Masters on eighteen on Saturday, and it was like fifteen yards over the green and that was like the worst shot he hit all week.
It's fascinating.
Yeah, the foul balls don't exist anymore as much, Like you know, like you can neck the crap out of a driver today and it just like goes straight and if it's firm and fast, it'll roll like forever.
I mean, Rory won the PGA doing that with his three wood. Yeah, he necked that shot on ten and it rolled up there like twelve feet for eagle. I was like, that wasn't a good golf shot, but it turned out okay.
So he is is that?
Like I like, I grew up with this, Like DJ's the only good golfer in our age bracket, like great golfer, Like he's the only one. Everyone else is younger or older, like justin rose age, which is like thirty eight thirty nine.
Like there's this gap of people that we.
Like when we were in college and the pro V one like was really hitting the prime and technology was developing, the high school kids were better than us.
I mean, so you're saying that we had to live through the transition time between yeah, like the wound and the new age ball, and because of that, we lost like two years of knowing how to play, Like.
We essentially just were worse because we had to, like we had to like learn a new golf swing. Like my golf swing today is so much different. Like you know, like all you do is hit up on the ball with a driver, try to. I just try to and it goes you know, take saw the spinoff and the ball goes really far and straight, and it's like the golf swing. These kids just learned, like they know they don't know what a miss is.
That it's never missed the ball, and they know exactly what everything goes. I mean again, like this is kids of privilege. Like if you're a kid that like can go to these instructors and go to these places where they'll show you this stuff. Like you know, like I still don't know how far I hit an eight iron, no, like, but these kids know exactly how far they hit an eight iron.
The other thing is when we were in high school, we played all these different sports, Like these kids play one sport now, right, it's all specialized.
It's yeah, I mean, it's it. I just I find it. I find it massively fascinating to me that I understand that golf is younger. I have a hard time understanding why they're so much better. And this is this is this is some good points because I think about that a lot, like like why were these other people able to compete? And why can't there be a third five year old that competes at the US Amber? And I always want every single year I have this hope. I'm like,
this year is gonna be the year. You know, this year there's gonna be a thirty four year old guy that comes out here and play some great golf and wins a couple of matches and he's in the semifinals. And we're like, here's this thirty five year old that's you know, that has a he has an accounting gig for KPMG, and you know he played golf at Tallahassee State and that's never happened.
See they that's the case.
They should just you know, give give me an auto berth into the sweet sixteenth, you know, just make somebody flourish, somebody into the sweet sixteen.
You wouldn't make our TV window if you lose nine to eight.
To know, that's the they figure out early.
They're like, well he didn't make the window.
Hey maybe it's they don't get it. You don't get a warm up, you know, no, no warm up. You got to play like a true midam. Put your shoes on and go to walk to the first d bruce les.
No locker. I like this, Actually, I think this is what the mid am should do. The midam should approach it exactly like we really do play golf, like oh, oh you wanna you want to you want to arrange, you want a bucket, arrange balls. Here's here's twelve balls that have stripes on them and they fly this distance.
Maybe it's uh, I don't know, it's it's funny. I uh, I think that that would be that would work. I had like a weird golf thing the other day where you had.
Something weird about golf. I can't believe, No, I bet weird theory.
I had this realization like I've I've played less golf this year than any year in my my like last ten.
Same same personally, same exact thing.
So like now when I play, I go out and I like literally just like play for myself to scrape the ball round. So I like just hid into the centers of greens right and like I swung really well on like the fourth hole, and I realized, like, oh I got full control today, I can like really do whatever I want like I can hit shots like it's like I've you know, it's like the one time of
year that I'll have this, you know. And then this course just ejected me because I was playing aggressive instead of just my my straight to the middle.
There's nothing better for people like you and I, who again, you and I get to play more golf than most people.
But like a thirty four year old buddy mine, like, there's nothing better than when you go out with them and they haven't played in two months or three months, and you see, like on the seventh green they hit a shot and you can almost see in their face like they kind of figured it out again, you know, and then for like three or four holes they hit it pretty good, and then of course it goes away.
But I always love that like moment of realization where you're like kind of holding the club and you're like, oh, you know, I think I got it. I went on to Stretch a couple of years ago where I was playing some of the best golf of my life, and my only swing thought was get it all the way to the top for like two months, and I hit a great and then of course I stopped thinking like that and started hitting like a dog.
It's funny.
I I sing the song comfortably numb when I before, I told me it's it's it's been a it's been an unbelievable, like awakening experience. It's it's to actually help my golf game quite a bit. But like I'm always so relaxed when I.
Hit the golf ball. It's like this comfort thing. I don't know.
Golf is just it's all mental. The less I play, the better I get.
I think.
I'm I'm absolutely the same way. If I play minimal amounts of golf, I play fifty times better. And that's just kind of how it is, you know, I mean just I don't really know what else, what else to say about it. I think that means we're probably pretty psycho.
You know.
Yeah, that means we get in our own way, way, way, way too much on the golf course, all right, overrated under a you're right, yeah, yeah, let's go desert golf is from a bunch of people.
I would say it's uh. I mean, I living out in Arizona, I would say overrated for the golf. It's it's underrated for the pictures because it's very beautiful. But I don't personally love desert golf. I'd rather play any other type.
Yeah, I haven't.
I've only been to Arizona once.
I got this year.
Come out.
Give you The problem is if you come out, we'll play Phoenix Country Club, which is going to be not desert. We'll probably play Pinnacle Peak, which will be not desert. We'll play like three of these courses and like you won't have seen a heel of Monster yet. You'll be like, what's happening here before I'll take you to, you know, But like, like I go play Weikopas Sworrow and I have a great time because it's it's more playable, it's
a little bit wider. Fair Ways, they cleared three or four yards off the rough, excuse me, off the desert. When you miss it and you can actually find your ball, you might not be able to play it, but at least you could find your ball and throw back in kind of as a lazy lateral. And and yeah, that's a by the way, the golf rules are a thing you asked me. One thing I would say is for everybody not playing in a tournament there's a lout of bounds, just drop it that you can't find your ball to drop it.
The lazy lateral is the best, like full time leaf rule if you're not playing in a tournament.
Absolutely, absolutely so, I said. One time I said something on social media a couple like a year or two ago about like pick up, you know, drop your ball or something. I had a whole bunch of like super serious golf people like that's not the rules, and I was like, well, then I don't want to play golf with you, like I mean, I don't want you to be out there grinding your tail off if we've got four hours to get around on a Thursday afternoon. Anyway, Sorry that that was a tangent.
We can go, okay, Yeah, the rules are overrated, Yes, exactly, all right, Alex war eighteen whole USGA qualifiers.
So that's what he asked, eighteen whole USCA.
Qualifiers overrated, underrated.
I would say, I would say underrated. I think thirty six is too much just to eighteen.
I hate eighteen.
You like thirty six, Well, I just I just think that it's all a chance at eighteen, you know, like here the thing I always I I like that playing.
Good for me. I want the chance. I don't want to have to go back out in the afternoon if I actually play a good round.
My my favorite turn of the year that I actually play in usually is like the state am I haven't I didn't play this year because I just don't have the time. But is I like it because like the I don't feel like I have to, like, you know, like if I make a six, I'm okay, you know, I know, yeah, like I got all this time, I got time to work it like you're building like a foundation of the house instead of like just like it's just a sprint, you know.
But I don't like.
Golf game, so I prefer anything on the shorter end.
All right. Next, next one, your hat collection, I would.
Say, probably overrated. I Uh, I have a I have a lot of really good golf hats. I also have a lot of really not great golf hats. And I also in my collection have an assortment of non golf hats. But how do you have I've probably got fifty awesome golf hats.
What's your what's your storage situation. I've got a little problem right now. My wife's been on my ass about it.
Yeah, so I have this is kind of funny. I have like where I do my podcast from It's a room in our house that's my golf room. So this is a room of just golf shit, clubs, hats, shoes, and then my little podcast studios in there. The closet has jackets and golf balls and all that crap. So she doesn't go in I mean, my wife doesn't go
in there. I mean she doesn't open the door. It's like that closet and friends that Monica had locked Like, she will not go in that room to save a life, because she knows that it's just my just over obsessive, stupid, overflowed hats, and she prefer not to go in there and see it because she's very, very clean and organized. So that's the good thing is I can keep it kind of off eyes for most people.
All Right, that's I need to I need a golf room. I need to get one more room and or play built.
You build on a golf room. Your wife's like leaves you. She's like, no, we're not doing this.
Yeah, I don't think she would let me do it either way. It would still have to be spect out to her her aesthetics. All Right, I'm hoping you can give me a good answer here it's failed miserably every time I ask this any sort of music question, overrated, underrated, We're gonna go with Tom Petty.
Oh man, I think I'm gonna go overrated?
Interesting?
What would you go?
I don't know, That's why I asked. I asked the question to you.
I would say that Tom Petty has for the general public these songs that people know. Is that would that be fair?
Yeah? Like Last Dance? I mean there.
Yeah, he's got probably three Learning to Fly American Girl. Yeah, probably three may four.
Three songs that people know, and then most of his good stuff is the things nobody knows. I always kind of think about music like this. If I want to listen to music by myself, then I can listen to whatever I want. But if I'm going to like put a record on or something and it's Tom Petty, I'm gonna be told to change it. Probably within ten minutes of people being like at my house, they'll be like, can we put something else on? So sorry, Tom Petty?
And see I disagree. I think you could listen to Tom Petty any kind of mood. You could be hanging out, maybe not partying.
That's it.
There are certain songs like that that electric feel you know that song mg like, like you could listen to that song in any setting, Like you know, I could start to like he.
Just compared Tom Petty, what is the MGMT?
Yeah, well you could listen like I could replace comfortably Numb with that song and I'd be fine. But you could be out at like the bar, like partying, and that song comes on and you just like everybody starts.
Beating their head to it.
You're right, Tom Petty has a lot of versatility, so he's underrated, Okay, Like you can't put led to that point on No, you know that's like you gotta be there's certain bands you gotta be in the right mood.
And this is so what is your music?
Like?
What's your go to music on the golf course?
Depend?
It all depends on what my mood's then lately, sometimes you know, I can listen to all genres of music.
I have a rule on music on a golf course. I always tell people, like if I'm writing a cart, like if I'm playing in something with a cart, I always tell whoever's riding with me they can pick the artist, Like I'm like, you pick the artist and I'll put the music on, so I allow the person that's with me to have the music choice so they're comfortable because
I'll listen to anything. Yeah, but I've basically completely moved away from any sort of hip hop or rap on the golf course because it's just a little too inappropriate in case you run into somebody on another hole. I always say having to turn the music down because I'm nervous they're going to say word the person would be comfortable.
Hearing, Yeah, I would agree with that. I you know, I could do country. I could do classic rock, classic rocks, like usually what if I was going to put music on on the course, I would put a classic rock on, Like.
Are you not a music on the golf course?
Guy?
I know I am.
I had like the speaker, I lost it. Though it all depends. I like listen, Like, if I'm playing by myself, I'll listen to music for sure, you know, Like it all depends, it's all circumstantial. I like love listening to music. I'm a huge music fan. I love golf like two of my favorite things. One of my most memorable rounds of golf in my life ever happened the one time I was in Arizona and It was that Talking Stick. They had that music festival going on at Talking Stick.
You know that thing you could Yeah, and you could. You could just hear all the music the whole round.
Yeah, I was playing.
It was like suns the sun was coming coming down, and I was listening to like a band that I really liked, and they were playing there. I was listening to them play their concert while I was playing Talking Stick. It was like a spiritual experience.
There's a I did that and we we had that in New Orleans. They say that there's au it's the golf course. They say when the music festival, the big music festal comes to New Orleans, which I mean there's probably a music festival every week, but they say there's a course there that you park. No, it's not Audubond because it's right there in the middle. It's one of the ones outside that actually got watched that I was
probably in the name of it. But they said that it you can hear the music clearly the entire round of golf, And I was like, that sounds like something I'd be very interested in being a part of.
There should be a golf course that has like a music festival on it.
Yeah, just in the middle of it.
While you play Yeah.
That would be sick.
I'd pay three hundred for that ticket.
That'd be so cool.
Why don't we have this, Why don't we organize this? Just get like three bands.
Yeah irations, We'll get Mike iration.
This could be our golf event. Is we just like we have three bands that are just going to be playing music all day and you play your.
Yeah with the yeah and you just find a course that's got like a big open space in the middle of it.
I mean, I think this is I think you're on.
The Sunday just solved, you know, big best golf event of the year. All Right, I'm gonna let you go. We've we've talked for way too long, and I hope that some poor soul isn't listening at this point.
Your yours tend to go along, but I can. I can stick around for a good amount of them. A pleasure I always I always love getting a chance to chat with you. I, uh, what do you got anything coming up? I'm doing PJ Tour Live. I've got a golf trip to Michigan with three buddies. At where we go, We're gonna do the loop. We're gonna do.
Uh.
I don't really know, honestly, can't tell you this. I don't really know what my itinerary is.
I'm sick.
But uh what it's like three of my best friends and myself are going up there and uh, and we're gonna do. Uh, we're gonna do. I think we're doing four or five days of golf or we Is there place that we need to play?
You should try and try and play Belvidere and Charlotte's Boy.
Is it awesome?
Yeah, it's under the radar, semi private, but they allow public.
It's called Belvidere.
It's a Willie Watton. Yeah, it's a Willie Watton. Of course.
Let me tell you. Let me tell you what. I'm gonna tell you what we're playing right now, so you can tell me if it's if we're doing it right. Have you played Bay Harbor?
Yeah?
Do you like it?
It's cool? I mean it's like right on the water play.
I'm playing Belvidere.
Belvedere's on there. Yeah, unbelievable. In press, I'm playing the Loop and Forest Dunes probably too.
I'm playing Forest Dunes. I'm playing Boyne Highlands.
All right. I played a j g a there back in the.
Y in Kingsley Club.
Oh, Kingsley Club's awesome. That's where I got ejected when I started hitting the ball. Good because I started going at two many flags. That place is cool.
So that's a good It's a good lineup. Are you excited about it?
Grade lineup? Yeah? You got.
We're gonna have to go to Texas because I've had I've had more people from my hometown in a day of Twitter interaction send me stuff than in almost any time in my career. You really to come. We're gonna play here. You should play here. Have you been here? Have you thought about this place? Yeah?
I know.
We gotta do the We gotta do the the. I can't even remember what I called it. Exploration, explorations, explorations.
We'll do Pine Dunes, Texa. Kinney Country Club, Well, I'll take it Marshall Lakeside Country Club, which is where I grew up as a nine hole course. I would love to hear your architectural uh talk on it, and then we'll go. I'll take you to this place in Shreveport, Louisiana called Herbie Kay's for dinner and they have this scene called the Shrimp buster that's pounded fried shrimp and a huge cold beer and to f and then we'll maybe we'll play Southern Trace and we'll go play Dallas.
Yeah, all right, just got a block a week off.
I've already got people. I've already My dad, who you've met, is in. He's all excited.
Already, Porter wants in.
Porter's gonna be in. Co's got like thirteen kids. I'm not if he can make it, but I love if he does.
He can't make it, you know, he's scarce. We got it.
We'd have to get an Okla, Oklahoma state legend to join and then he would be there.
Yeah, exactly. You know what we'll get, h We'll get our boy. We'll get Victor, a couple.
Of victor or.
Yeah, just some someone we gotta get someway from.
I remember he was.
Doing a podcast with Tony Allen. When I saw him at training Forest, I was talking to It's like, I gotta put Tony Allen coming on with Tony Allen. It's a Chicago guy, but he's Oklahoma state legend.
I love it. I love it. Well, thanks for having me on