The fried egg requires a different technique. What you need to do is actually square the face so they'll dig down underneath that bad line and propel that ball right out onto the green.
Here's the thing. Playing out of a buried lion of bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice clean lion of greenside bunker. You need to be aggressive on any shop weather it's sitting cleanly for its Frida egg. Well, we've all faced it.
The dreaded fried egg.
Not to be feared, though it's actually a pretty easy shot to hit.
Mysterious places evoke intrigue. Over its ninety year history, Seminole Golf Club has been a mystery to most golfers. Sitting in South Florida and near the top of all the course rankings, Seminole has chosen to stay out at the spotlight. As a result, not many golfers have had the chance to understand what makes it great. But on May seventeenth, the nineteen twenty nine Donald Ross design will be on
display for the entire world to see. Rory McElroy, Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler, and Matthew Wolf will take Seminol on in a televised Skins match called Taylor made driving relief. While playable for all, Seminole is an unrelenting test for elite golfers like those four. Ben Hogan once remarked that if I were a young man going on the Pro Tour, I'd try and make arrangements to get on Seminole. If you could play Seminole, you can play any course in
the world. So to wet everyone's appetite for the match, I talked about Seminole's history and Ross's design with architect Bill Koorr, who, along with Ben Crenshaw, completed a recent restoration of the course. I also spoke with PGA Tour player and frequent Seminole Pro Member participant Zach Blair. Both Bill and Zach gave me some fast insights into what makes Seminole Golf Club tick.
Well, it's it's it's Uh. I'm very pleased personally that they're that they're doing it and that people will get a chance to see at least the Seminole. It's it's one of the it's one of the very best courses in our country. And uh, it's a course Andy that's without question. If you want to learn anything about the state of your game. If you think you have some talent and some skill you got simom play, you'll get the answer really quick.
Yeah that's uh, it's so hard. I played it one time years ago and it just kicked my ass.
Yeah, it's it's just like Oakmont. If you want to, if you just if you just start feeling kind of good about yourself in your game, just go play there and you'll find out very quickly how good your game really is.
And that's the amazing thing is like visually it doesn't look hard, but it's so high.
It is so difficult to just consistently play shots that are that are on the greens in in puttible positions. I mean, you get the ball. Those greens are all just basic tilts. For the most part. Number four has some very interesting internal contour beautiful, but for the most part, the greens and seminole they're just tilts. And and boy, if you're underneath the hole putting uphill, good for you,
Good for you. That's hard to do if you're even with the hole on either side putting crossways, or if the Lord knows, if you're above the hole putting downhill and the wind's blowing and yet the wind has to be putting. You're putting downhill down and wind, well, good luck, good luck, you fell.
What stands out about Seminole within his body of work as other courses.
Well, I think Andy, it's you know, it's interesting to me, though it may be somewhat almost blasphemous. He managed to take a site that, while it's visually stunning, particularly when you're on its borders and on the dune and the dune ridges, or you have visibility the ocean, it's not a site that I would say was extraordinary in terms
of its potential for golf. And it you know, it is dominated by the two prime ridges that if you you know, for folks who've been there or played there, there's the prominent ocean ridge along which the seventeenth and eighteenth holes and co the thirteenth place too, and that's right along the ocean. And then there's the major dune ridge upon which he placed holes like three and four
and five six that are that are there. But the rest of the property, for the for the most of the rest of the holes was a low lying basin, which I have to imagine just by observing it even in current times and reading about you know, the process when they were working there all those years ago, had to flooded. I mean, it had to have been you know, in extreme weather events at times that it had to
be problematic because of drainage issues. So it's it's in a lot of ways, it's it's like working I don't know, Andy, I guess it's like working in a giant solid bowl with a couple of a couple of big forks laden there, you know, over the ridges. So I wouldn't I wouldn't say it was one of the great sights ever, you know,
for golf. And yet he mister Ross managed to the way he routed the golf course and used the dune ridges to highlight the most interesting well maybe I shouldn't need to say the most interesting holes, but certainly the most visually interesting holes and connect those to the holes that were in the low lying patient is just beyond artistic.
Yeah, it's a it's kind of a rectangular property. That's a pretty small site, right, So the routing, it was very creative. The way he used the got to the edges of the property and maximize them.
Correct, that's correct, that's correct. And yet uh again, the way he managed to go to those dune ridges were the that were the most prominent and the most interesting for golf, and then go away from them and continue
to do that throughout the course. Go to them, go away from them, using the high ridges and using the low basin just just created well again, it was just a masterful routing, and particularly when you take into consideration the the angles of the holes and the how they would play, the the downhill shots where they are, but more importantly the uphill shots to greens and set upon those ridges. And then in conjunction with the influence.
You do you have any favorite like little historical tidbits that you might have picked up from your time there.
You know, I think the thing to me Andy, But being in the business that I'm in, Ben and I are in, and it was it was interesting just reading
about other people looked at the site. You know, before mister Ross was retained to design the course and if memory serves me, E F. Hutton was the then president at Seminole and uh uh, you know, to build to build the course and it talked to different people in the design business, and I truthfully don't know who he who are they talked to, But I do know from reading that there were other proposals that were made to design the course, and the others all recommended that the
primary dune bridge, you know, especially the one there were wholds three, four or five six, you know those, and are that that and two green and eleven green and all that part of the most amazing part of the golf course as it's now existed for all these years. But the primary dune ridge, they were recommending it be knocked down, that the sand be taken from that done ridge to elevate the base of the low ground. And certainly from an engineering perspective, I guess that would have
been a very logical thing to recommend. It would have been a huge amount of work, you know, in those days. But still I could see how someone would go out there and say, boy, we've got all this giant area of basin and flat ground, and it's poorly trained, and you know, let's take all this sand from this giant ridge and we'll just elevate all the bottom areas, and therefore we'll make building the golf course, you know, a
more pragmatic proposition. And mister Ross went there and I guess very quickly termined that dune ridge that everyone else was talking about, you know, dramatically lowering or even possibly I don't know, they would have gotten rid of it all. But he felt like that was, you know, the most interesting part of the property, and that that should be the guide for how to lay out the holes and
to use that ridge as often as possible. And he did, and he did, and those you know, if you've studied the routing at some and A, it's just fascinating how many times he was able to create really interesting golf situations on that ridge that other people had talked about eliminate.
Yeah, that's so amazing to think about it. And then you start to think about the architects that would have, you know, thought about doing that. It's even more fascinating given that time, because there weren't that many earth movers right right.
Yeah, it was, it truly was. It was a fast night. I mean I could walk out there and I was out here, go, well, yeah, I can see it logically, engineering wise, pragmatically, yeah, there's all the same you could
ever need right here in this big ridge. Let's just take it and put it down there, you know, take it and put it on both sides of itself and uh, we'll solve the issue here, the drainage issue, and instead mister Oss used it to make what I think it could pretty easily be said or the most visually appealing and perhaps the most strategically interesting holes in the golf course that are integrated into that dune ridge, and then went into the basin and built a series of canals
and lakes and to build to deal with the issues there.
What are a few holes that really stand out to you?
Oh, well, we've yes, we you know, most anyone that's played golf seen photographs of the you know, the seventeenth hole, the thirteenth hole, you know the eighteenth hole. But I have to say number four, number four, which which runs right on top of the primary dune ridge that's internal to the property, is both one of the most interesting,
fascinating holes and beautiful holes. Not just how he laid the laid the hole right on the top of the ridge running down there, but how the bunkering was then placed in both strategic and visually interesting positions, and the influence of the wind on that hole that it may be my personal favorite. There.
You talked a little bit about the You mentioned the a few of the closing holes. Talk a little bit about the what viewers are going to see with the closing stretch of seminole.
Well from oh gosh, really, the tenth hole starts off a very flat hole that plays away from the clubhouse, and you know, it's an interesting hole. It's a it's it has water influence of water short left of the green, and but it's a very flat hole. It's just totally in the in the lower basin there. And then eleven starts out because of the tea shots across the water, and then and then to a second shot uphill to a very difficult green set up in one of those
primary dunes and extremely influenced by the wind. And then from that point it's down down off the dune, the te shot down off the dune at twelve and to
the low lying fairway and the greens down lower. And then probably what you're most referring to is when you come from thirteen and thirteen to par three that plays from the low in the basin, the greens set up again up into the primary dune right at the ocean fourteen, playing back from there back to another through the low ground back to another high spot in the dunes fifteen a hole that a lot of us have seen and probably be very interesting to folks watching on TV at
second consecutive par five, fourteen and fifteen or fifteen, you know, playing off a high spot in the dune, but the rest of the hole is all in the low basin, and it's a split fairway hole and eat with the right hand side of the fairway being the preferred line for certainly for the players that you're going to watch on television, on the left hand side fairway being more for you know, membership and less accomplished player use. And the two fairways are split by a sequence of bunkers
between the two. So you think back and you think, well, we've you know, particularly in more recent years, we've seen quite a few split fairways. This is one of the very early ones. So it's it's interesting architecturally, not just because of how it would play and uh and the and the split fairway aspects, but it's you know, it's it's an impact on golf architecture again in America. This is this is one of the earlies, and from there
on you just go through. Certainly the holes that are the most dramatic will be the Part three seventeenth playing from the dune ridge right adjacent to the ocean to a green set against the dune ridge just on the inland side of the same dune ridge at the ocean, and then the t shot on eighteen from the ocean going across some diagonally across some beautiful bunkers to a lower piece of fairway, but then back up onto the
dune ridge at the green to finish. Those are beautiful holes and they're extremely influenced about the wind.
So Dustin Johnson talked a little bit about how he always feels like he's going to go light the course up there and shoot a really low number, but he never does. What do you think about the seminoles design has allowed it to really stand the test of time even with the long hitting distances of the best players today.
Well, it all starts with the greens and the green sites, and particularly those greens that we just talked about that are set up into the dune, up on against or occasionally up on top of the primary dune ridges. There those greens you know when they're up and most of the greens, even the ones that are low down in the basin, are still raised above the floor of the ground around them, and a little bit like Pinehurst in
the sense that they roll off at the edges. They are crowned, not as severely as Pinehurst number two, but they do have a great tendency to shed balls. They
don't collect balls very easily. And so when you're trying to play to these these putting surfaces, and frequently these putting surfaces are in elevation higher than where the players are playing from, and playing, you know, with wind either at your back, off the left, off the right, into you a quartering from all directions, it can be very problematic. I don't care how full they hit the ball. I care you could stand out there a little like I once heard it set by a very good player about
Planeers number two. You could give the best players in the world, you know, let them play from one hundred and fifty yards in every hole. It still wouldn't be
that easy. And I think someone someone like that. The influence that the con cave nature, the rolled off nature, the edges of the greens, the speed of the greens, the firmness of the greens, and all combined with the angles you play into them and the wind directions and of course, the velocity of the wind at times just makes it very problematic to be successful there time after time.
You let it in perfectly to my next question. You've restored both Seminole and Pinehurst number two, probably two of the arguably the most famous, two of the five most famous ross designs. For sure, what are you know the greens have some similarities. What are some of the biggest differences between the two? And obviously I think most listeners will be very familiar with Pineher's Number two, but you know they'll be seeing Seminole, most of them for the first time.
Well, the greens, as I say, they're similar in the sense that they're are inverted saucers. You know, generally at both courses number two course, the greens being much more severely crowned or rolled off on the edges, and then at Seminole, but Seminoles being more influenced by the wind and oftentimes more elevated in terms of the you know, the elevations from which you're playing from up to the greens, and sometimes they are reversed down, but there they are.
They are similar. They're similar in the in the sense that I've always believed that you know, certainly pioneers Number two. We've read about how mister Ross believed that was the second shot golf course. You know, the t shots were played to set up the second shots, and the second shots were the most important shots at number two. I've never read that he said that about Seminole, but uh, you know, you look at look at probably a lot of his golf courses, and you you could probably make
that argument. And I have an idea that if you were to talk to the best players you know who play at Seminole, you might find that they would agree with that. Uh. The fairways much like number two course at Seminole, the fairways are generously wide, and they look like they're oh, they're very forgiving, and certainly the ones in the basin are very flatish the fairway contours, and the ones from the dunes, of course, not so much.
But I would think the very best players can look at the t shots and say, Okay, I can see what's required of me here, and I can do this. I can do this feel pretty comfortable when confronted with the approach shots to those greens, knowing how easily those greens could shed balls, and at sunno more so even than Piner's number two. When the ball doesn't stay on
the putting serves, it rolls off down the sides. It can be much more problematic than at number two, because the elevation can be greater, the ball can get away further from the greens or get into sandy areas, and thinks it can be even more problematic than number two.
Course, yeah, it's got a little bit more dramatic land, it's got some flatter portions than Piners number two. But then you know, the ridges provide a little bit more than you know, more peaks than any part of number two.
Right, correct, correct, Yeah, the elevation changed well, of course at number two. The fourth hole, the fourth and fifth holes the two holes that have each been par fours in their lifetimes and been par fives in their lifetime, so they the fourth hole has more elevation change in the fifth holes probably, I would say, I don't know the exact but I would say somewhat comparable to some
of the holes at Seminole. But generally speaking, yes, you do have more uphill shots and more downhill shots at Seminole than you would at Pine Nurse number two, and it's much more open in terms of trees, Seminole has
palm trees and you know, some beautiful trees. But the wind is much more of a factory at Seminole because it's literally Liares immediately adjacent to the ocean and the ocean breezes, whereas Pine Nurse is inland and it's all the holes are framed, although far out from the lines of play, but they're framed by pine trees, which often masks the wind and so or at least diminish it.
Yeah, that South Florida wind can be just unrelenting. It can be just killer. So last question. You know, we've talked a lot about the greens and what if you were gonna if you could take one of the greens off Seminole and put it in your backyard, which one would it be?
And why? Well, I guess I guess I have said I've never thought of that, but I guess it would be seventeen. I mean, you know, I guess because we most often think of of shortish part three holes to
have that have really interesting greens. What do you think about the fifteenth at Cyprus Point to seventh at Pebble Beach, And you know that's sort of throughout the history of some of the best courses in the world, it's been some little some shortish part threes and the green at the green and the bunker configurations that at seventeen it's
some of old. It's just fantastic. It's a very simple green, just very simple, sort of a bit of a oval, not quite an oval, but sitting there just slightly at an angle, you know, to the line of play, and surrounded by beautiful punker on all sides, and you're you're standing on the primary dune ridge with the ocean you know, to your left and and sort of behind you, and you're playing toward this beautiful green and bunker configuration and
the palm trees swaying in the background, and the clubhouse further down in the background. And it's pretty neat. It's a pretty neat setting. And if I guess, if we're going to try to recreate some setting of South Florida in my backyard, it might be something like that.
That's it would be a tough thing to recreate in the desert, you know.
It would, it would, but it's the it's memorable, and it's uh. I think it would be a very interesting hole as as all of them will be, but very interesting to watch watch the players take a crack out, all right.
So DJ talked about how he always feels like he should light up Seminal when he goes and plays the Seminole Pro member, but he never does. Why do you think that is?
I think just for a lot of reasons. Honestly, the uh, if the winds up, it's obviously a much different golf course, and then the green complexes and this surrounds. It's more of like the exterior contours of the greens are so diabolical that anytime they get pins close to edges, you're right on the edge of disaster anytime you're hitting a shot. So if you don't execute perfectly, which sometimes is hitting you know, twenty feet away from the hole, you end
up in really really bad spots. And that's why that place is so cool and so fun.
That's what's the experience like playing in that Seminole Pro Member.
It's awesome. I mean, the course is obviously always meant it's cool being around that many really great players, and you know, the whole membership gets behind it, and you know, obviously Bob Ford has done an unbelievable job getting kind of the lineup that he gets, and it's just really cool to see everybody come out for it, you know, all the good players, all the memberships out there kind
of walking around watching. You know, he gets all the pros from these really great clubs to come out and help, and it's just really cool, something that's really cool to be a part of.
They So I think the vast majority of the public's most familiar with Pinehurst number two, you know, Donald Great Donald Ross Championship Course. What are some similarities and differences with Seminole and Pinehurst?
I would say the green complexes have some similarities in kind of those rolled edges and that kind of like turtle shell type grain. Where they are different is at Seminole, it's bunkers around all the greens and not as much short grass. I can. You know, there's some short grass in front and behind some of the greens, but honestly it's usually just all bunkers. Like one, there's bunkers left and right. Two there's bunkers to the right and kind of a hill to the left. Three is kind of
the opposite bunkers left hill right. Four bunkers kind of right and left. Five bunkers all over the place, six bunkers all over the place, seven bunkers right and left. So it's just at Pinehurst number two you kind of have a bunch of greens where there's short grass. If you miss the green, it just kind of goes down into these collection areas, where at Seminole you're in a hazard and they're really really tough.
What are some of your favorite things about Seminole.
I just think it's so cool how that place can play so different day to day or even round to round. If you played two rounds in one day, you know, you can get out there and the wind can be down and you can light that place up, and then you could go back out after lunch and have it blowing twenty and if you break par you would be, you know, really happy.
The wind blowing twenty there is different than normal blowing twenty.
Right, Yeah, I mean it's a it's obviously, you know, right on the ocean, so it's a pretty stiff breeze most of the time. But the way the courses routed, you know, you're always changing directions kind of going in those triangles, so you just never really get like a good beat on the wind. You know, you'll play one hole cross and then next hole maybe you're down, and then the next hole you're in. So it's just kind
of all over the place. And you know, you'd think it would be so easy because you know, you know the oceans just right over there, you know which way it's coming. But again, just the way the green complexes are and they're so just simply diabolical. You just have
to execute so perfect. And it really is one of those places like if you're a really good player and you want to go learn how to execute approach shots, it's a really cool place to go and play because if you if you're just off a little bit, you know, you kind of get punched in the face, which is fun to go. It's fun to go kind of learn how to play golf out there. It seems to always kind of hold its own, especially if the winds up.
I've urged you to talk about that where you you know, almost have to really play golf the right way. Can you talk about that a little bit more?
Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of places where you can kind of get away with average shots or average ball striking or anything even average putting or out there it's not a particularly long golf course obviously, and it's not a particularly narrow course by any means. You know, you can hit it not all over the place, but you know there's plenty of room to play out there, but really kind of from the fair way in and then even around the greens, you just have to do
the right stuff. And like I said earlier, that might mean, you know, playing to the middle of the green with a lob wedge, which you don't. You know, it's so out of character to not treat a lob wedge like a green light. But there's some situations out there that if you try and hit a great shot with any club and you don't pull it off, you bring like five, six, seven into play just because of how hard and tough it is around those greens. I mean there's even greens
out there. There's even greens out there that you can hit the green in one, you know, like a par three, like thirteen. I mean, you can knock it on that green in regulation and like put it off the green and make like fives and sixes. So if you don't put it in the right spot, you know, you got to stay under some of those holes. And if you even if you hit an okay shot and it's above the hole, you're really gonna have a hard time making pars.
Do you have any personal experience of just like a where you thought you were in a good spot and you just end up making a complete mess of it out there on a particular hole.
Yeah, I mean.
Thirteen, I've knocked it on the green like ten feet and made like five or six putt it off the green in the bunker. I mean, there's so many holes out there, like what is it six?
Yeah?
Six? I mean you can hit a great shot in there and just barely barely miss and it goes in the left or right bunker, and you can just play ping pong there and just have you know, really hard time getting it on the green.
That's that's a pretty short part four too, right.
Yeah, I mean it's probably like a like a three wood eight iron tight pole. You can kind of force one up the left, but if you you know, if you don't pull it off, you know you're in a tough spot.
Again.
I mean, they're there are the par threes out there are really really good. I remember at the Pro Scratch this year, all I wanted to do, like my whole goal was to just hit every par three, you know, in regulation, and I almost did it, but I missed number like five I think it is, and just short left in the bunker, hit a bad shot. But it's just one of those courses you just got to execute.
It's like so simple but so hard because the moment you start pressing at that course and trying to make it happen or trying to hit close shots, you just you know, you can get in really really tough spots where then it's impossible to recover, and then you know, you get even more overpar.
So it seems like it's like if you it's a course where lets you really get it going, but if you're just a fraction off, it's you know, you're gonna have a really tough day.
Yeah yeah, I mean the first time I played there, it was blowing like probably like twenty five, like just solid all day. I bet I three putted like eight times. I mean I shot like high eighties, like no joke. And then I went out there like literally two days later in the morning, no wind, and shot like sixty two or sixty three, and you're just like, I just beat myself by twenty shots. Like at least twenty shots.
I beat myself by in in the you know, span of two days where I didn't feel like I played much better or much worse in either round. But that's how if you're just off by a little bit out there, you know, it's it's really really tough.
You mentioned six and par three thirteen. What are maybe a couple other holes that you really like out there?
And there's so many good ones. Two and eleven, you know, kind of up that ridge are really cool holes. I love that stretch of three to three and four. Three is kind of like a pretty simple dog leg right par five that's reachable, and then four is like a beast par four. And kind of the saying out there is if you play those holes in nine, you know that's basically par so whichever one. If you get three into the wind, it can be tough, and a five's okay,
and then you can make four on four. But if you get three downwind, you know, it's an easy hole to knock it on in two, but then four becomes impossible. Like from the new back t I've hit like driver three wood, like full wedge. It's just so long. And then I really like that stretch of twelve thirteen, fourteen fifteen at fourteen fifteen, back to back par fives really cool and like I said, the par three's out there really special, really tough, just got to hit really good shots.
But it's kind of a good mix, you know, you get some wedges out there, you get a couple holes that are long irons, par threes are good and it's been cool to see they've done a good job with the new tea boxes they've put in over the last four or five years for that Walker Cup coming up.
So it'll be fun to watch these guys play. You know, I expect people will play pretty well unless the wind's up, and then it'll also kind of depends on where they put the pins, because if they get some easier pin locations, you know, it can be friendly. But if you get some tough ones, you could see some big scores, which would be kind of cool too.
It'll be it will be interesting to see how they set it up because usually skins game they're looking for birdies. But who knows what they'll do, you know, it.
Really is though. I mean, honestly, the more I think about even if even if there are some easier pins, there's not like too many layup like shots out there. If that make like not lay up layups like, there's not too many like super super easy shots where you're like, Okay, this pin's going to be in a funnel. You know they're gonna get it close here. So if guys are trying to make birdies, you'll see some big scores, which will be cool. That's why that place is so good though.
You know, you you if you go out and try and get it and you pull it off, you can hit good shots and make birdies and eagles. But at the same time, if you go out and try and get it and you don't pull off the shots, you can make bogies and doubles, which is nice to see that variance.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the most entertaining goth because it's asking you, because it's where if you don't go for if you don't try the shot, you're not guaranteed to have make a par right because you're going to have a tough putt if you're twenty five feet away. That I think that's the best golf where when you try and push it. Ogilvy talks about it all the time with Augusta. It's like, it's a really easy course to shoot seventy two. It's a really difficult course to
shoot sixty six. And when you start trying to shoot sixty six, that's when you shoot seventy six.
Yeah, totally