Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at b dratty. Today, I would love to talk about the b dratty sport line. So they have developed this over years, and you know, really the delay in getting sport apparel out for b dratty was really quality. They were looking to build the best polo that would feel the most like their signature Peruvian Pema cotton on their
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Sean is a He was on the grounds at the Masters and has devoted more coverage to Hideki Matsiyama than any other American journalist that I know of, So I thought he'd be a perfect guest to come on and break down Hideki's win and just Hideki in general, a you know, superstar in the sport that I don't think anybody knows a ton about. But Sean knows about as
much as anybody about Hitdeki. So we break down the twenty twenty one Masters, and there it's winner, Hideki Matsiyama in great detail, And thank you so much for Sean, uh for coming on, And without further ado, here is the episode.
I missed a green. For example, I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a bright egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg Frida egg egg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off with the.
Hup sean recent new father.
Was this your first uh start since uh since Paterni leave back at at the Masters.
It was. I came back and worked match play week because you know, that's just a grind, the traffic on the match recaps, people love those. I want to help out with that with ninety six matches in three days. Not to get into a format discussion, which I know you want to, but that was my first That was my first event on the road since the Houston Open, oh no, sorry, since the RSM Classics. So yeah, so what a jump, just big events in Georgia.
Thrown right into the Wolves.
Yeah, it had to be like a surreally different experience with such limited fans, Like it had to be so easy to go around, so easy to see stuff. Obviously one of the one of the few places that media is not allowed inside the ropes is the Masters.
Yeah, it was still very different. You know, there were still no grand stands, which it took me a little bit. I was walking around on Monday, I was like, man, this feels different still, and I can't fire out why. And then I got to the middle of that fairway on fifteen about eighty yards out whe everyone stops and takes a photo and I realized I could see the sixteenth Green, and I was like, oh yeah, there's no grand stands. He saw those clear sight lines. Was really cool.
When Kyle and I were walking the back nine, you know, you still could see things easily. You know, we were next to the fifteenth green when Hedeki and Xander were there. We walked over to sixteen t still could see everything. So it definitely still is very different than like your typical masters, but it wasn't. I mean the thing that November is going to be. I mean that's once in a lifetime that one's going to stand alone.
Different experience being on the grounds. Obviously, a historic win, one that has to make you smile, had to make you, you know, grin in from ear to ear.
You're one of the.
Biggest Hideki appreciators fans on the planet, especially in this part of the world, and you know, different masters, But what were your overarching thoughts on Hideki's win. Obviously you penned a wonderful profile piece on his win on Hideki on PGA tour dot com that would urge all the listeners to go read Yes, So I.
Think the word fan makes me a little bit uncomfortable. And it's funny because people react as if like this was life changing for me, Like am I going to get one percent of the earning? You know, It's not like I'm earning money off. There's something that like the end of the day, you know, it was great to see. I like to consider myself a Hideki Matsiyama appreciator, probably the largest deck appreciator of the American media. So fan
always makes you a lol uncomfortable. It's a I think we'll get into it, but it's really a bit that kind of started ten years ago, and I think now that it's been going for like ten years, it's kind of probably melded with reality. It's hard to tell where what's a joke and what's not. And so yeah, but I mean, I you know, there's no cell phones with Augustin National obviously, so I'd go out on the course and watched nine holes. I'd come back to like fifty text messages.
I mean, it was I've never I can say, without a doubt, I've never received so many text messages in a day from Saturday to Sunday. That was wild. I you know, like guys say after they win the tournament. You know, I have not responded to everyone yet, and I've apologize if I haven't been trying to get back to everyone at once. But it was a little bit wild in that sense that the amount of I guess attention and texts and tweets and everything else was a little wild.
I mean, were you surprised that he won this?
Yeah, I mean I think I want to say that I said earlier this year, I didn't think it was gonna win it this year. I thought the drought was gonna keep going. I mean, he didn't have a top ten going into Augusta.
I mean, he hasn't been playing golf. He was off everybody's radar. But then, you know, I think this is the thing about Augusta and why you kind of kick yourself is like majors are they bring a little bit different out of it. But like then, you know, he's played so well at Augusto over his career, and it's like, you look.
At what what do you need.
At Augusta More than anything is great iron play, and that's that's what he does everywhere.
Same things as Ala Torus. I mean talking about tough conditions bringing out the best. I mean z Aala. Torris's best two finishes this year are the US Open and the Masters Hideki. His shros gain approach is a little bit off this year, but he's finished in the top ten in SHROS gain to approach the green every season of his career. His full first full season was twenty fourteen,
and he's been top ten. He's the only player to finish top ten in SHROS gain approach the green in each of the last seven years, and his streak of seven consecutive years of doing that is the longest since ros gain was invented. The next best, I think was Furich and your Boy Ernie at five, and the next longest active streak was Justin Thomas at four. Now, Tiger probably would have gotten there if he had seven consecutive
years where he counted for the stats. But like from under the Hany years, I mean really under the Haney yars, his iron players unbelievable. In O four to seven he was always top ten. He would have been in OA he won four to six starts before the knee, and he probably would have been again. I think he was again in nine, and then of course ten and eleven. Uh, he wasn't in the stats again either because of limited play, were you.
You know, what did you think going into Sunday? Did you think did you feel like Kadecki was was gonna, you know, do what he did, go out and play like a really solid round of golf or were you was there any of the pursuers that really worried you more than others the in terms of him getting it done on Sunday.
So I think when he finished, you know, having played the last eight holes in six under, you know, you're like, oh, well, he's gonna shoot sixty three tomorrow when this by twelve, like he just looked unbeatable. But then I think someone made the point that Rory had a four shot lead in twenty eleven, and it felt like as I got close to the tea time, you're like, man, four shots
is real. It's not a guarantee. And actually listening to the shotgun, start listening to Andy yourself say you know, if he shoots seventy, someone's got to shoot sixty six, Like all right that you know you put it that way, and it felt a little more confident, but you know, I don't know. And then you're out there he pushes his tee shot one, and I was behind him when he hit the second shot, and he hit it through the trees, but he did not hit it through the
gap he was trying to hit it through. Uh. He hit it right of a tree and into another gap where I think if he at least it didn't seem he hit it through the gap he was trying to, and so it very easily would have hit the right side of that tree and bounced further into trouble.
It's I mean, it require a little luck.
You know, he gets through the trees speed doesn't and that's like, you know, part of the championship right there.
Yeah, it's uh.
But I mean it was not's how deleted evaporated one by the time he gets off one. But at the same time, I think this is something that happens with the gust every year. Is it kind of tricks us?
Yeah, you've got two and three coming up.
Yeah, because he you know, it's like it doesn't on the back nine too, where you have that run of really scorable holes and then every year like, oh, maybe this guy's gonna be the guy and they're like, well, he's just played all like the gettable holes and all the leaders haven't and ever going through the murderer stretch, and I think the same thing happens right out of the gates with like you get through one, then you got scorable two, three, But you know it's four or five,
six really determine how you play that front nine.
It seems like, to.
Be honest, I kind of thought Zalad Horus, I mean, he was the one I kind of felt like was the biggest threat. It was just that, you know, the longer I've covered this, the more you realize, like so much of it is just mental. Like Jordan Spieth was not the best ball striker in college golf, like he was, you know, had some scrapy areas he still does, but
he wins three majors. You just see it with these guys who are just so mentally tough, and like Zalad Torres to do what he did in these two majors and you know, play rock solid on Saturday while in the final group with Justin Rose, you know, it just shows that mentally he has something, and so I kind of thought that he might just you know, if it becomes an eye players game and he doesn't fold, which it didn't look like he was gonna do, then I kind of thought that he might just go ahead and
win it.
Yeah, you know, that's the thing I thought with zalatoris one of the most Outside of his play, one of the things that I found the most impressive was just his candor and interviews, his presence and interviews. He drops some zingers. He was like very calm, extraordinarily well spoken,
and the moment. You know, you see people get into these things and a lot of times you're like, oh that, like you know, burn Visburger, great great player, but like you see him up there and you're like, well, this isn't gonna last, you know, And there was something like with Xalatorus, not only the way he was playing, but the way he was handling himself. You're like, oh, this guy is not going away.
And you know.
Of I think like in terms of like just like a small little thing, Xalatorus makes that putt on eighteen on Sunday, and I think it's a lot different of a Sunday if if Decki's playing with Xalatorus and a three back rather than where zal Tours was a few groups ahead of them, Because I think I val Tours was the guy that would have put the pressure on.
Yeah, And it's funny because Hedecki's up five with a turn and Porter just keeps going. I mean, speF is up six and no. Granted he had a dunk in the water on twelve. I really thought once he birdied thirteen, I thought it was over. Five up was five to go. There's no real danger except maybe fifteen. But even then, if you hit your second shot on the water, you
could get out of there with bogie pretty easy. I didn't think it hit in along the back water, but I mean, Xander, I mean that we couldn't see that bunker shot ply as well as people on TV. But based on the reaction with the patrons, it seemed like it was really close to dropping.
Oh it was so close it was. I mean, it was like it burned thatdge and.
Then it's one shot.
You know, well, you know, so this is where I kind of like him and hide. It's like the record books are going to show us a one shot win. But it was not that close.
No. But I mean if that if that bunker shot drops, he's only up one with three holes to go.
One of the things when you build a five shot lead with five to go, you're afforded a leeway of mistakes. And you know, obviously the big mistake was fifteen, but that was the smarter miss than the short miss. Like the shortness is when you welcome in eight, you know, it all of a sudden enters the chat. But you know, he had the three put on sixteen, obviously a hard putt. He had the you know, he had a missed short
putt on fourteen. Like that's the other thing about his round, Like, you know, he played great seven, he missed short one seven. Like it was not a bulletproof round, but like the iron play was extraordinary for the stretch of holes that you really needed to be on fire, you know, when you think about six through fourteen, he didn't really miss many shots, you know.
And I thought your point about, you know, thinking back to the birdie on thirteen down eighteen on Saturday, your point that everyone thinks that, you know, chipping and putting are correlated. The short game is correlated. And obviously we know about his putting. He's a fantastic chipper of the golf ball, oh him.
And it's like him and Sergio, they have this thing about really great iron players like who struggle with putting.
It's great hands. I mean Web Simpson is kind of the same way too, I mean just great hands.
You know, Tony, I think you could throw in that bucket. Also, like everybody's like, oh, he gets it done with distance, and it's like, well, he's a top twenty player around the greens like that.
You know, that doesn't happen that often.
I think too. We talk about the golf swing being about big muscles and you want to take the little muscles out of it. In the club's traveling one hundred miles an hour on iron shots, and you know you can't really finagle it, but at the same time, you know you did here. I remember Phil one year talking
about where he was at with his game. He had just twished to uh Andrew gets in his current teacher and he's like, you know, I think I've got the big motions down, but it's still now just getting those tiny, tiny motions with a hand to work the ball. And so there is still some hands in the iron shots, you know, when you're dealing with side hill lies and maybe an imperfect lie, there still is there's still some hands there whereas kind of the driver probably not as much.
M Hey, you did a really great piece on Bob Turner, his interpreter a few years back, twenty fourteen, and I'm just curious, you know, about his impact on Hideki through the years. Obviously he's been basically at his side for everything for since he turned pro. Can you shed a little bit more light on on Bob Turner?
Yeah? So interesting. I mean I think everyone saw it, yes or Sunday. You know, Bob Turner is just a white guy. He's not from Japan, but he's living in Northern California. Converted to Mormonism and did his mission in Japan, and it was a pretty good golfer, was playing college golf, went over to Japan and then came back and had met a woman there and so decided to go back.
And so he goes over there, gets married, plays his final year of college golf in Japan, and so it's like all Japanese guys and this one white dude and the college golf team used to help at the Dunlop Phoenix, which is that kind of that big event that they do appearance Fees Brooks has wanted, Tigers wanted, Sev's wanted. They get, you know, a handful of international stars every year and the college team was the standard bearers, and so somebody saw Bob and they're like, well, what's your story?
What are you doing here, because I mean, he's the one white guy in Japan or at the tournament and told his story, and so they started using him to translate, like when Seve would come over or Tiger or any of those players will come over to Dunlop Phoenix, he became the translator and so then he just started this business of translating for golfers. And so his son, Alan actually was the the bullpen catcher and the translator for
a Seattle Mariners reliever. I can't remember his name, and I want to say that the golf coach at Hideki's university was also that had been the baseball coach. I had met him. He was like, he seemed like a base and so they got connected and asked Alan to translate when Hideki came to his first Masters in twenty eleven, which actually uh Hideki and I both played Augusta for the first time of the same year, just you know,
another connection. So that was and then Bob eventually he became his translator, and Alan actually still works for the Mariners. He translates now for Echiro Eachiro's coaching in the Mariners system. And so I think it's been a huge help because I mean, you have Hideki over here. You know, he still doesn't speak you know, he's not fluent in English. Obviously a lot of guys say he speaks more than he lets on, but that helps him kind of stay focused.
But I think he helped with the transition immensely. I mean, Hideki when he first came over was doing kind of the Sunjay thing of like going hotel to hotel, didn't have a house.
Where does where does Hideki live in the States now when he is Orlando Orlando?
Okay, Yeah, So I think it's been a huge help. And I think too, you know, Hideki said that he asked Bob or he was going to ask Bob on Saturday, like what what did Sevy do in situations like this? And he didn't have a chance to. But I think Bob also because he's been around Tiger and Sevi and other Japanese star golfers, he can provide some of that as well. And you know, Bob's really low key, really chill. A lot of times I seen at events and we just talk about like he lost about my kids and
we'll just have like small talk. And he's just a very low key, relaxed person. So I could see him possibly helping, you know, Hideki in that because Hideki is so intense.
With with Hideki. Obviously, I think a lot of people are learning more about him. He seems like an extremely private person. I mean, obviously there's the the tales of him hiding his not only marriage but the birth of his first child from from the Japanese press that have you know, tried to infiltrate every aspect of his life. Were you surprised at all to see him flying commercial out of Atlanta.
A little bit? It's funny. I found a clip on YouTube of like a Japanese morning show had called into like his Orlando house, and I mean this thing was like bare bones. You know, there was like nothing on the walls. There's just this and I don't know if it's still where he lives in Orlando, but you know it's like there was a treadmill and there was but there. It looked like basically like a college guy's house, not decorated, just basic, which kind of feels like it fits his
life of like there's golf, and like, that's it. I wasn't shocked. I mean, also, if he was going to Japan, I mean, frankly, I don't know if you can fly private across the Pacific. Uh, maybe you can't.
I guess he had to go to he had to come to Chicago.
You know.
He doesn't stop them by my house to do an interview.
But my favorite thing, but I still love the line about when someone asked him like, well, why didn't you tell the media that you had a wife and child, And He's like, well, no one asked. And so I've always wanted to, like then ask him every week like oh, how many children were at now you know you have another kid? Or but I think, you know, talking to Japanese media, like it's not just that he gives very short answers to the English press because they have to
be translated, like he's a man of few words. Like to the Japanese press, they kind of compare him to to Tiger in the sense of like it's very buttoned up answers are very serious, not a lot of not a lot of jokes, you know, kind of like when Tiger went is a prime it was just very you know yes and no answers, and for my sense of like what he has to do in those post round sessions with the Japanese media after every round, like there's a lot of questions are like of, you know, you
missed a fifteen footer, why did that happen? You know you missed the green with a six iron, why did that happen? You made bogie? Why did that happen? Instead of like, you know, sometimes you miss a fifteen footer because you miss a fifteen footer, and so sometimes those things just happened because you can't hit every shot perfectly.
But I think too, it's just very it can be hard on him because it is like, you know, having to answer for every bogie and every miss putt, and you know it's very detailed of like what club did you hit? And but it's you know, players have to do that when they win on Sunday, but not when they shoot a Thursday seventy one, and so it's just it's exhausting, I think, And so I think part of it too is short answers to kind of frankly keep
those things from not going too long. Because even I was shocked, I was I read right, Thompson's Peace and then I text actually dammed with cantadeck you win, because I had no idea. He cried after the twenty seventeen PGA, which I was surprised. That's such an emotional reaction and he feels like a man of few emotions, so that was interesting to me. You know.
Obviously the twenty seventeen near miss at the PGA was something that impacted him a lot, and I think it's something that you've covered. How did that you know, how long was that you know period where he kind of struggled after that.
I mean he was almost on top of the world before that. You got to remember, so like the week before at Firestone he shoot sixty one to win by five, and even the summer or the kind of winter and early of twenty seventeen he was on that run where he finished like first or second and seven straight events. That was.
Yeah, it was like a crazy hero. It coincided with the hero.
Yeah, one HSBC an event I think he won. The Dunloft was like second at Century and so he was second in the world. He got back to second in the world after Firestone. I think we forget the HECKU Watsi Alma's number two in the world, and so then the next week of the PGA, she shoots that sixty four in the second round, which was like just flawless. I looked it back. He made two punts outs I
had eight feet like it was ridiculous. And I don't remember the exact details, but I remember he made a pot on fifteen the uphill par five a quil Holla made like a ten footer and he was like, Oh, this is happening. And then he bogie two last three to finish three back, which also JT had a two shot lead going into the last hole and kind of did what Hydeki did of just making an easy bogie and get out of there with the trophy. But I
didn't know that he cried afterwards until Monday. But it's very easy to think like that seems to have had a huge effect on him because he was on top of the world, almost unbeatable, and then that's it. It falls off the map, and like he never wins for four years later. So Bob, when we asked him on Sunday, said it didn't affect him. It just seems like too
much of a coincidence. I think I mean it had to affect him and for him, he's not a very emotional guy, and for him to cry afterwards, you kind of realize, like, yeah, I beleeve that one is His wind.
Just comes at a really interesting time because obviously we've we've had Hideki around forever. Now it's it's nuts that he's only twenty nine, you know, and you almost forget about it. He becomes yesterday's news, but he's still like sub thirty year old golfer with a ton of golf
ahead of him now, you know. But at the same time time he had become almost an afterthought because of this wave of youth that has infiltrated the PGA Tour, Willseel Torus among you know, the likes of Kyle More, Kawa Holin, Matthew Wolfe, Camera Champ, you know, all these guys that are winning, and it's now it almost resets expectations and it's like where does Hideki go now from here?
Yeah, being twenty nine or thirty feels like the third generation or like third youngest generation of PJ Tour players. So like, you know, you've got Rory who's about to
thirty two. Hideki's that age Brooks is that age. But then you think about them, you're like, yeah, but they're older than Jordan and Justin and Xander, you know, like, yeah, but there are a few years older than Markowell Wolf Hobland and so yeah, I mean they're like the I feel like they're the third oldest generation in a set of golfers, of like our third oldest tier of golfers in a sense that they're like almost in their middle
age when they're really not. I mean, you know, everyone says Phil when his first major at thirty four, which you know what DJ has done since turning about thirty five. I mean I think maybe like it's harder with a distance game, but I don't know that it does. You still, there's just so much about having the head on your shoulders. So yeah, I think we forget about thirty year olds a little bit because of Morikawa, Wolf Hobbling those guys.
It's like almost become like you're always looking for the next big thing. Yeah, and and and it used to be you beg a major before your thirtieth birthday and it's like, whoa, this is a big deal.
You know, this is a twenty nine year old.
How many is he going to win and it feels like, you know, one of the things I think with Hideki is it's easy to look at a guy like Sergio or Adam Scott as his career ar comp you know, but it'll be interesting to see if he can if he can beg more. Obviously, Augusta National is going to be a great place for him for ten plus years going forward. And with his game, his game works pretty much everywhere you play.
Yeah yeah, I mean good ball, shrinking plays everywhere. You know. He parted well, you know, so he hired his first golf coach in December. He'd never had a coach before that.
That's crazy.
I know, it'll be interesting see he does before then.
How did he learn to swing?
Well, his dad's like a ten time club champion, So
his dad's a good player. And I think YouTube, you know, watching Tiger and you know, when he played, he played on the college team, So he played college golfit to Hoku Fukushi, So I think there was coaching there, you know, Like when the tsunami hit, he was in Australia for like a college training session, so I think that he had some coaching there, But he didn't have like a one on one swing instructor, and then once he turned pros on the tour full time, he didn't have an instructor.
I think he picked a lot of brains and he definitely watched a lot, so I think. And but that can get you in trouble too, because you're like, oh, you know, I want to do this, and I want to do that, and DJ does this, and Rory does this, and tie or does this, and you try to throw them all together and then they don't match up, and
all of a sudden, you're a mess. So I wonder if I wonder too, if what caused the four years was that he lost the PGA, started questioning some things maybe, and then but didn't have anyone to keep him on the path he was on, and like, so he just started, yeah, trying to mix and match to what Rory does and JT does and Speed does and just got a little
crossed up. So I mean, really, I do, I mean at this coach, you know, if he has like a singular path, I mean, he could get back to that good golf again of being two in the world if he you know, maybe if his problem was in fact from just tinkering too much, well.
That's something that is crazy about.
You know, as bad as he's played by his standards, he just for a couple of weeks drops outside of the top thirty of the world. Like the slide is not anything compared to you know, your your Jordan Speith fallen to ninetieth in the world or Ricky Fowler you know, dropping outside of the top one hundred for the first time. Like this is the guy still played at an extraordinarily high level worldwide despite being in you know, a all time slump for him.
He never missed East Lake, so he's made Eastlake every year these every full year on the tour as well, he's made east like seven straight years. So yeah, so as bad as a god, he's still top thirty in the FedEx CUB So I think that does prove kind of yeah that even his worst was, i mean, not that bad by comparisons of what we've seen from other people.
We talked about the limited media presence out there. Do you think in any ways I've seen this floated as like you know with COVID and they're being less Japanese media around. Do you think that at all was a factor in helping him or do you think it was minimal.
I think he didn't mind it. You know, he was asked like, hey, does this make it easier and he said He's like, I don't know how to answer this, like politically correct, but he was like, yeah, I prefer it this way. So it didn't hurt. I mean I could see it because I mean, when we have to do that much media in a sense, unless you're Tiger, I guess you know, the lowers can get lower and
the highs and can get higher. They can almost get you too excited about which just happened everyone around you all excited, or they can bring you down by having you know, you have to walk through everything bad that's going on. So it couldn't have hurt. But at the same time, it's been like this since since the season resumed in I guess May of last year, and you know, he wasn't playing that great since the season rezoom. So
I don't know. I think that possibly, but if it really helped that much, we would have seen the results earlier a year later.
What do you kind of forecast in terms of short term You know, everybody's talking about the ramifications of this win, what it's going to mean for golf, Obviously, it's a huge win in Japan, which is a golf create, a large golf crazed country that's been waiting a long time for a major championship winner. What do you kind of forecast as the short term, you know, big impact that this is going to have and maybe the long term I.
Don't know, I don't know. It's interesting. So from a Deca's standpoint, it's interesting because he always got that question, what's it gonna win if you win a major for Japan? And it's not that he didn't care per se, but it was like, look, I want to win the Masters because I want to win the Masters, like not, I want to win the Masters if I want to inspire all these kids. Though he did talk very well about it.
I think short term, I mean, he's just gonna deal with a lot, I mean, I assume there's gonna be I think, you know, pressure on him to play a lot, maybe more in Japan. He's done really playing regular Japan events outside of the kind of November December, which I think the Japan Open is then in the Dunlop Phoenix. So in a sense, you do have all this media, but you're also a continent away when you're in the States,
so that might help a little bit. But I mean, I do wonder he doesn't seem to have a problem saying no, which will be helpful. But I mean, there's just gonna be so much asked of his time in the lead up to the Olympics, and which I thought, it's showing that he's able to say no. I think he was asked, you know, or you do you think you'll be asked to light the torch at the Olympics,
and he said, I have no idea. If it fits my schedule, I would love to, So like he's not going to drop everything to be on you know, to do all this media stuff or whatever. But I think again, I think it's just all the scrutiny. You know that that can get tiring. So you know, like I wonder with COVID, you know, Japanese media might be trying to send all those people back over to the States to cover them again, so you might go back to having all that media. And you know a lot of times
you get all that media. A lot of time it's not golf savvy media, so that's why you get the questions like, well, why do you miss that putt or can can can you win? Right?
It's the Uh It's funny because that was one of the I think that was the first major that I've I covered in person, and uh it just happened to coincide with the every every single press conference, Canha Decu win? And that was when Deci was really reaching his peak before he had this you know, kind of swoon and.
You do wonder when you got to Kumi Kanaya coming up. I don't know about the pipeline after that. I mean, there's got to be something for seeing that someone can do it. It's the whole thing of like, well I used to beat this guy, and then I just saw him win the Masters, so maybe I can win the Masters. So it has to help in that sense. But I don't know. I mean, you know, he'd actually been world class for ten years. You haven't seen a wave of players follow him at the same time at the same.
Time, though.
It took that in America for Tiger for a while. You know, like if you think about the PGA Tour in two thousand and six, which would have been ten years after Tiger burst onto the scene, that was the worst Ryder Cup team in the history of the Ryder Cup, you know, like it's a it's not a one decade after, it's more of a you know, two three decade where like now I think we really see the Tiger's impact with the guys like will Zel, Tours, Kylin Morikawa, Matthew Wolf.
That that really, to me speaks kind of to the Tiger era.
One of the things that was interesting in doing a story years ago on Korean man is as like Sea Wu was starting to emerge on a scene and song You'll Know and a couple other younger Koreans, was that it used to be you know, like kJ Rid on the scene at thirty five, why Yang like the same age. They didn't come to the States until they were older. And so all of these guys in Korea they played the Korean Tour first and then maybe went over to
the States. And in Korea, because it's an island, the courses are shorter and tighter and smaller because there's only so much land, and land's expensive, and so Korean players developed a type of game suited for those courses. And so when they got over the United States and everything was bigger and wide open and longer, they struggled, and so once you had guys coming over at a younger age and seeing what they had to do to compete against Americans, and in America they started developing a game
there's better suited for America. So I do wonder, you know, with Hideki he could help that of Like you know, I don't know if Japan's the same where the courses are shorter and smaller and tighter because of the lack of land because it's an island also, but I think it's similar and so well.
I think that's I think that's something that stands out, like when you think about Ishikawa, Yeah, and where he failed, like you know, he didn't necessarily have the the gas pedal when it got came to America, like where he didn't have the sheer power in all that is Thatdki Hideki's a big like. I think that's one of the things if you've never seen Hideki in person, one of the things that sticks out right.
Off the bat is how big he is.
Yeah, his legs and lower body is just he's just a big dude. And it's I think that's where he his game was so American friendly, you know, in terms of it, and I think coming over for the Masters, as you wrote in your piece, had to have a huge impact on him at a young age.
Yeah, and I think too. I mean, he is a big baseball fan, and he talked about his idols growing up and they were baseball players like Darbish and Otani, and so I think also in a sense of that tiger aspect too, where like he viewed himself as an athlete versus a golfer. And then frankly, he's got a lot bigger. You look at pictures from the two thousand eleven and Asi and Am and I mean it's like
he's gotten bigger. He's got a lot bigger, which I think in right Thompson's story he said even he's had to answer questions about that, like why you gained so much weight, which is I mean, just think about having it answer questions about like everything in like from your weight gain to your you know, club selection into I mean, it would probably drive you crazy a little bit.
Yeah, I mean, it'd be hard to be like polite when people are asking like all those questions. Like I get agitated when people ask me a lot of questions. It's it's a natural reaction. One of the things that stuck stuck out to me. Also was how he talked about like his first thought, it seemed like, was how
happy he was for his caddy. Yeah, that just seems so gracious, gracious and generous, and it's like it wasn't about him winning the Masters as much as hey, I finally got a win for my new my caddy that was new on the bag, Like who's gone through all these years of not winning?
You know, that answer really did surprise me, just because he's talked about how you know, he wanted to win the Masters forever, and you do think it as being so singularly focused, you know, you would think when you win, your first thought is I won the Masters, Like I'm coming here for life. I've won the Masters. So I was surprised by the answer, but then it pretty quickly
hit and then I was surprised too. You know that video that I've seen people mention, I didn't se until after I was done writing, but the one where he's walking off the green and you know, you can tell he almost cries, he's starting to choke up and it starts to hit him like that was I was a little surprising because I don't expect emotions out of him. Like I said, I first heard about the quill Hollow Tears, you know, after I was done writing as well, when
I read it and writes story. I think sometimes that actually can help because sometimes you know, when the game beats you down, you realize why you love the game and how much you love it. And I think when a guy cries after wearing a major, I think that's a lot of it. You realize, like how much this means to you. I think when golf's treating you poorly, you're like, I just got to get away from it. I got to get you know, get away from the golf,
get away from the course. I gotta get away. And you know, I think we all know this, Like when you have a good round or hit a good shot, it pulls you back in. I'm like, man, this is why I love golf so much well.
And I think that's something that translates at every every level of golf, from your eighteen to twenty five handicap that's trying to win the C flight or the D flight of their club championship, all the way up to the best players in the world. Is the reality is that for most golfers, ninety nine percent of the time
you fail like it. They these are those one percent moments that you have to cherish because the game beats you up so much, and especially and this is especially the case for a player like Matsuama, where it's been really rough three years. It's probably the most he struggled with the game of golf in in his entire life the last couple of years and getting a major finally
after like many close calls. You know, something I immediately was thinking about when they got put on the clock was a decade at Mirfield all the way back to twenty thirteen. Like, you know, there's just so many moments in it's so natural, Like it's almost weird when somebody doesn't choke up when they when they accomplish something like this.
You know, you see it with marathon ors, like somebody running a marathon, they finished the marathon, they start crying because you've poured months and months of time into running that marathon. It just like these golfers have poured so many hours into you know, really peaking and playing their best on the biggest stage like the Masters. So you've been a hideki appreciator in the media for the longest time.
I'd love to hear how that all started.
Yeah, so I think, you know, I think a lot of people forgotten that I worked at Golf Week or never knew that because I've been at the tour for eight years now, But before that, I was at Golf Week, and for a lot of that I was covering you know, college and amateur golf. And so actually I went to the first Asia Pacific Amateur and I remember when they announced.
It, I was like, what was that experience?
Like that to do a quick diversion so that Mission Hills where they have like the fourteen golf courses, mm hmm. But like flew into Hong Kong, spent some couple of days there, and then I mean literally like Augusta arranged for a driver, so I like, this guy drove me. But then you have to go through customs to get from Hong Kong to China. And this guy's like, all right, I'll meet you on the other side. Like I can't go through with you. I'll just be there to pick
you up. And so you like walk into this building and wait in line, and you're like it's always a little bit nerve wracking and saying that you're like going to enter the country as a journalist because like I think I said I was a tourist. I hope I don't hold against me now. But then you're like, all right, I hope I see this guy on the other side, because if I don't, I don't know what, like what do you do? Then? Uh, so he's there. You know.
We go to Mission Hills and Shenzen, and the one main thing I remember was outside the golf was the like I was staying. There's it's a huge property. There's fourteen golf courses and I was in some tower, you know, and stay in My room was away from like the main kind of the main resort area, staying in this hotel. It was a very nice room, but like I had serious jet lag. It's I'm awake at like one two
in the morning and there's like nothing to eat. Uh there's no restaurant there, and I don't I didn't really try. Probably should have tried see if I could get like a shuttle to the main area. I probably I don't know, to get some food. But like so I just raided the minibar every night and lived like lived off em and M's and snickers for like a week while I was awakened all the night. But it was really cool. I mean obviously like Billy Payne was there as the
chairman of Augusta. You know, it was a really big deal. And I mean I remember like talking to a guy from the team from I think, like I forget where when he talked about how he was a caddie and like he used to sneak onto the golf course whenever they caught him, like he'd get beat, but he loved golf so much he would just keeps sneaking on the golf course. And you know, I think when this was formed, you know Australia and New Zealander included because it's the
whole Asia Pacific region. I assumed, you know, Australia is gonna win every one of these mean Australian kid a gust every year, and you know it wasn't the first year. Was this kid I think cheng wu Han was his name. He was a Korean. He won it. I haven't seen him do a whole lot. I've seen his name occasionally on Asian Tour results. But Hedeki was the second and
third champion, so he did well. You know. Then he had gwan to Kami Kanaya Yu Shin Lane has won it twice and he's a pretty good college player over at Florida. Now, so you know, even like ct Pan, who was a top ranked I think he's a number one amateur in the world. For a while he was like age seventeen, Yeah, youngest US amateur court final since Bobby Jones. Actually Olympic Club at two thousand and seven.
It was like fourteen in me the quarters anyways, But a great player all American at Washington wins on the PGA Tour like he played it I think four years and never won it, which shows you that, I mean the depth there.
Well you think that even like Curtis Luck.
Yeah, you know, it's like uh and now like Elvis Smiley, a kid that's making waves, Like you know, there's a lot of really good players that don't winning a golf there.
This is a news flash, I don't know, but winning a golf it was really hard and.
With a masters with a master's been on the line, and you know, the Asian amateur is the one that had the most made cuts, I believe, you know. But the same thing of like you see you compete against these guys, just see make the cutter Augusta and you believe more in yourself. I think there's definitely I think it's had that effect. I think it's really worked, uh and done what august National hoped it had. I think Kindecki proves that. And I mean I was very skeptical
and very wrong. I think, oh so yeah. So then I think my hitdeki appreciation. So then at twenty ten or twenty eleven Masters, I'm covering for a golf week and I've got to handle the amateur beat. So Hitdeckie shoots sixty eight in the third round. It wasn't really intention it barely made the cup, but still I think when he walked off the golf course, he's like he was like in twelfth place, he's gonna fall down the leader board. But yeah, I mean sixty eight from a
nineteen year old amateur Augusta is huge. So I go up to a writer I'm not gonna name him, who I thought might be covering it, and I go, oh, you're gonna go down and get hecky. He's like, no, our interurn's handling it, and I kind of like stop. He's like no really, and I was like I was like, man, this is a huge deal, Like and then you know you've heard it before and you know what's gonna happen.
But a guy that doesn't speak English gets less media coverage, which I makes sense, it's harder to write about him. And you talked about Bob Turner's impact, and you know, frankly, Bob's been huge because Bob helps with that stuff of just giving us more information, you know, giving us some background information. But I think from then I was like, man, like if we were judging this guy only by his
golf scores, like he'd be a huge deal. Like you know, if a nineteen year old American amateur shot sixty eight, the masters will be fawning over him. So I was like, man, he's gonna get overlooked because of this, which as a journalist, I also understand why it's harder to write a great story about him. We can't speak directly to him. But I also was like, man, but he's also just really
good and we should pay attention. And so then ever since then, and I've been on the Hideki train and then it's some somewhere it jumped the shark from like you know, to where I'm getting fifty text messages after he wins the Masters. But I also and actually on Twitter, I'm also just a bit of a contrarian. So if everyone's gonna zig, I'm gonna zag, which I think is why you know, some people accuse me probably of of jumping off the island onto to Xalatora's Island and Moricawa Island.
I do like the young you know, the young up and comers is always in my wane, and so yeah, I'll admit it. I probably had like I was probably packing up the boat to get off the island and then al asudden was like, no, I was gonna be here all long. What are you guys talking about? It was just putting some stuff away. But also when the young up and comers, I follow them, and you know, like we said, when you're twenty nine year old, so you got to you gotta move on to Xalaturs and Moricowa and well.
Then they get old and then you go back to them like.
Yeah, they went a major. I'm like, oh, I've been here all along, what are you talking about?
It's funny.
I had a similar thing happened to me with you know, I feel like when the players that see Wu won was it twenty seven, Yeah, twenty seventeen players Seawoo wins and there's a similar reaction with so many of the media that groans and everything, and it's like here I'm looking at I'm like, God, this is a twenty one year old kid that just boat raced the field like one of the best fields in golf and I couldn't.
That's when I became like a huge Sea Woo Kim fan was because like of the reaction and it's like, that's not right. And it's something I think that gets so overlooked so often with with these young players from foreign countries, is the idea of a DECKI coming over here, living out of a suitcase for so many years of his life when he was in his young twenties, not
being able to communicate with anybody. It's like if you threw these young Americans like say you're John Aginstein's or even like you're will Zel Torus over and said go play the Asian Tour, I bet.
They would struggle.
Yeah, definitely, definitely, You're a fish out of water.
And I think that that adds layers to you know, these guys' stories on how they come to be, you know, a Master's champion. It took a little bit longer than a lot of people would have expected. A lot of people, you know, would have thought it. But you know, this is the journey of a professional golfer, and I think, you know, with Hideki, it'll be really interesting to see what happens from here because you know, you can tell that there was a lot of pressure associated with being
Japan's great hope. And now that he's accomplished this, does it go? Do we see more wins? Do we see him in contention more often? Or is this just kind of the way it's gonna be. So my question to you would be, like, on you're over under, is this gonna be a guy that gets more than one major?
Is it?
I think that's where I would say it. Is it two majors or more? Or or is it gonna be one major career?
It's so majors or so hard because they're so weird and there's so few of them, I so few, I would think I would guess another one because of the iron play. And I mean even his worst years, he was a great iron player, so I could see it. But also so I mean, there's great you know, there's great players who only have one and then there's not as great player as I have two, I would guess more.
I would go more. I think two. You know, if he struggled to close them out before, like maybe he did because he's runner up at the US Open Aaron Hills as well, and if you struggled to close him out. I mean, once you do win one, I think that helps with those struggles because you've done it before.
That's one of the things with Hideki that I found really interesting, goes how good his record is when he has lead.
Yeah, like he it's just getting there.
And what I mean, what's that? What's a good players win percent? If you win five percent of the time, probably.
Ten percent all time, er like that's I think Phill's ten percent.
So he's twenty nine, he'll be competitive. Let's just say twenty more years, which would be not he probably won't be competitive for the end of it, but that's twenty years. That's eighty majors. Well, and let's say his webercentage is five percent, be kno getting half more because of the strength of field. I don't know. I I think he'll win another one, but I don't know. There's only four year.
That's my go to where I get this question. Only four a year, probably GI him one more just times on his side, I think he's obviously a world class player, you know.
The one sneaky thing with Hideki also that I just thought of. And I don't know where he stands, but Sergio's you know, most Majors played consecutively streak ended last year when he had the COVID test at the Masters. I don't know what Haideki's where he stands, but he hasn't missed a major since twenty thirteen Masters. Yeah, and I don't see him missing of major for a long time.
Well, and he's already played ten majors at age twenty nine. I mean, if he keeps going, you know, he could challenge you know, I think Gary players record for most Masters's.
That's the thing.
So like it in terms of opportunities, He's been extremely healthy over his career, and like I don't, like you look at his golf swing, it doesn't seem like his is one where we're gonna see a physical breakdown like adjacent day where you know, like Jason Day, He's still out there competing. But he even admittedly says he can't go the way he like to go at it. His golf swing, his body type seem like. This is something that Jeff Ogilvie has talked about a little bit on
the podcast, is like body types. He's got that body type of the iconic players, like the longevity. You know, when you look at the players with the most longevity, they all have kind of a soft upper body with a bigger lower body, and that's hit Deecki's body type to t So you think about longevity wise, like his best golf might be ahead of him in the next five to ten years. This is not a you know, oh, we're glad he got one kind of situation.
I think I could see him holding up. But at the same time, especially I don't know how much he flies back to Japan, but it's a lot of a lot of flights guble player. I think it's hard. I mean he goes out, he does go out of pretty hard. I think he seems to have some resistance in the lower and upper body, which and I would say would make a more injury prone just because how slowly he kind of takes it back. You know, He's not like a Matthew Wolf or something.
That body type though, man I once Jeff mentioned that on the pod. I never can forget it. And he's one that falls right into the bucket like Ernie Els. You think about player like Phil Ratief Goosen has had great longevity, Ben Hogan, you know, he had a kind of similar body type. Jack Nicholas, all these guys had very similar body types the way a DECKI is, this is what the people want.
They want body type discussion.
I just wonder too, how we'll play. I mean I heard someone mentioned that this could be worth a billion dollars to him and in like endorsements and opportunities, and I mean, honestly, it sounds crazy. But if you're the one Master's Champion from Japan, I mean, now, Grant, I don't know that he wants to cash in, So I think that will put that will shorten his career a bit, because at some point you're like, look, I'm done deal
with this stuff. I'm out here. So I think that might be the bigger maybe not threat to his career, but the thing that causes it to end earlier than the injuries. Maybe how many career wins so his six career wins now is twenty nine? What we put them out for career wins.
I mean career wins. Let's let's be fair to the global player. He's got fifteen career wins, okay, now, just a lot of those coming in the Japan tour. But I'd say I think, I mean, I think he could get to fifteen wins.
Yeah, Now is he also? Is he a Hall of Fame lock? Solely for the fact that he's the first major champion from Japan? I guess, I mean why Yang wasn't, But I mean Wazi Almo's career when he was longer. Is he a Hall of Famer?
Well, I mean you look at global winds too. Like with him, I think it's important. He's got fifteen wins, you know, fifteen wins in a major obviously by he's twenty nine. So like, let's say on the low end, he gets to twenty world wide wins with a major, you got to be a Hall of famer, right, yep, all right, I'll.
Let you go.
But Sean, hey, thanks so much for coming on to talk about Hideki. Well we'll chat soon, probably catch up about the next few months of golf, but thanks and in great coverage this week at the Masters.
Sounds good.
Thanks man, all right, thanks for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast. This episode was edited by Meg Atkins and Garrett Morrison, and I just wanted a quick reminder. We've got a couple events that are going live on Friday.
This Friday.
We have the Big Muddy at Davenport as well as the Jagger Jagger is Seth Rayner's middle name at Blue Mount Golf and Country Club up in Milwaukee. So a couple of Midwest events that are going on. Registrations are going live this week on Friday. You can get in on all the action by visiting the Friday dot com and going to our events page. These I expect to fill up pretty quick. If you want to play, if you want to come alone, come with some buddies. We got a lot of people that do both of those.
Be ready to sign up on Friday. So thank you very much for listening, and another Master's Weeks in the Books.