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Renovating Cal Club

Apr 25, 20191 hr 22 minEp. 154
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Episode description

Former California Golf Club President Allan Jamieson and revered Golf Historian David Normoyle join the podcast to discuss the California Golf Club and their ambitious renovation effort in 2006. The podcast starts with an interview with Allan Jamieson discussing the politics of the club and dynamics of the club before and after the renovation. Following Allan's interview, David Normoyle joins to discuss the intricacies of the California Golf Club's history and all the aspects that went into the renovation with Kyle Phillips.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

This episode is brought to you by our friends over at b Dratty. Recently, Will Knights and I were watching The Masters together and Will Knight never had one of the long sleeve be Dratty shirts and he was watching it. We were watching and he turned to me in the middle of the telecast and he said, hey, man, this might be the best golf watching shirt there is, and

I totally agree. It's made with soft Peruvian pee mccotton, and one of the great things about is it offers up a little bit more dressed up, look like you don't look like a schmuck like you would if you're wearing a regular T shirt and you're somewhere. So we have some of these T shirts up in our pro shop, or you can get them online at bdraatty dot com, or hopefully you can get them at your local club or courses pro shop and if they don't have it, ask for it. Now on to episode one hundred and

thirty three of the podcast. Today, I am joined by Al Jamison and David Normoyle. Al is a member at the California Golf Club and was club president in two thousand and six when the club decided to overhaul their golf course with Kyle Phillips. They underwent a restoration plan on the holes that the original holes that remained of their AV McCann and Alistair McKenzie designed golf course, and then they renovated a few of the other holes that

were non original. The project has been revered among the golf community as one of the most influential and ambitious projects seen by a club. So the end product has been a smashing success, and one of the things I find most interesting has been the drastic culture change that occurred at the club within the membership. So L comes on to talk about the process, the highs and lows

of the restoration, and the end results. And after our conversation with Al, revered golf historian David Normoyle points UH to give us some background on the California Golf Club's unique history. He works with the club as a consulting historian. This pod UH will lead with a line from David before it goes into our conversation with Al. I just love this line from David. I thought it would be a great way to set the tone for the podcast.

Hope you guys enjoy the podcast, And without further ado, here is Al Jamison and David Normoyle.

Speaker 2

I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

Speaker 1

When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course.

Speaker 2

When we started working on all the historical stuff and trying to find a way to use the past of the California Golf Club to create its future, the thing that I said to Al Jamison and John McGovern, folks who are involved at the long range Planning Committee, was how can you honor the name of your course? It's the most ambitious name you can have, apart from the national golf likes of America. It's the California Golf Club. It's not San Francisco or Los Angeles or San Diego.

It's the California Golf Club. And so how can you in everything you do from golf course to clubhouse, to the quality of your membership, all of your principles that you care about, how can you honor the name of your club by offering the high in this private golf experience you can in.

Speaker 1

California, that might be a good place to start. So you guys work with David Normoyle, who's a esteemed golf historian, and he's been putting together for a couple of years your history. What has been kind of the most what's then the most shocking thing that he's discovered, And you know, in terms of what is the membership as the membership appreciated what he's doing.

Speaker 3

He unearthed some aerial photos at the UCLA Library in Los Angeles that we didn't know were around, and those are very interesting. But I think what David has done is articulated for at least the board members and all the members that he's had a chance to interact with the importance of understanding your history and how it relates to the culture of the club and changing the culture

of the club is the real goal. Took fifteen months to build a golf course, but it's taken us ten years to slowly adopt the culture of commensurate with where we are in the eyes of the rest of the golf community. And David, he has good tastes, he's very articulate. The pieces that he writes about golf in general and us in particular, I think have been very informative and educational.

As I said, he can't discover things that weren't there, that were lost to history, but he can put these things in perspective and give some guidelines going forward on what we need to do.

Speaker 1

I think a lot of the critics of golf courses your ranmore sets of the world would say that CAL Club has undergone one of the biggest transformations, not only with its golf course over the past fifteen years, but also the culture of the club. You've been a member here for forty two years, forty six years and were instrumental in this transformation that's happened. Talk to us a little bit about what CAL Club was like, say in the late nineties.

Speaker 3

I'd like to go back a little earlier than that, because my perspective is when I joined in nineteen seventy three as a junior member, many of the older members they weren't that old at the time, but these were greatest generation people the World War Two people, and several of them took me underwing because I had been in Vietnam and they appreciated that. In nineteen seventy three that wasn't too popular and I gathered from them that if you look at what's happened in America at various periods

in history. So there was the Roaring twenties, which we call the Golden Age of architecture. Then there was a depression, and then after World War Two there was a lot

of golf course construction that was sort of mediocre. And in this particular area, all major metropolitan areas as it relates to golf, seemed to break down into a club that is very established, sort of old money generational clubs, which would be San Francisco Club here, and then Olympic Club was sort of the everyman's club and a large membership,

very active. And then in most major metropolitan areas you had clubs that were founded in the twenties and thirties that were primarily Jewish clubs, because in those days many of those other clubs were restricted. It was just a fact of life. And be lake merced here. My reading of this club was that it had allegiances with San

Francisco at one time before my time. For instance, Eddie Lowry, Francis we Met's caddie, was the president of this club in nineteen forty seven and simultaneously was the club champ at San Francisco Club, and he was also a cypress member. Ken Venturrey told me many stories about regular games Tuesday at San Francisco with Eddie Harvey Ward and others. Friday would be here. There was a recession in the sixties that was very severe around here in nineteen sixty eight.

I came to this Bay area in nineteen seventy, and you know, fell in with people who played golf, and so anecdotally I heard about clubs that had fallen upon hard times. And it was in that period of the early seventies that one could get into this club merely by picking up somebody's dues and maybe paying two thousand dollars.

The club underwent a big transformation, and there were lots of people who joined the club as their first experience in golf or in a private club, and they really weren't steeped in the game, didn't play it as kids, didn't play competitively, and their idea, my observation, was that this was their country club. However, this location was never

conducive to country club activities. It's called in Windy In the spring and summer, most of the members live a few miles away, and with all the microclimates we have, the weather is much nicer just ten miles south or

in Marin County. And so the club struggled in its identity and the So these people who eventually became the leaders of the club, in my opinion, didn't have a lot of what we call golf i Q or what I call golf i Q. So your first question was what was it like in the nineties when we undertook to gain control of the board of directors and try to reverse the direction of the club. So by the nineteen nineties there was the first tech boom that was

let's say ninety six to two thousand. All of the clubs around here maybe tripled their entrance fees and accumulated capital. There was one club down the peninsula where there was no set fee. It was a bid and ask like a stock. They had a membership trade at four hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Col club went from thirty five thousand dollars to one hundred and two, but some people overbid at one hundred and twenty. I had been on

the board the first time in nineteen ninety two. From ninety two to ninety five, and that was the beginning of that period. The the problem was that most of the other clubs around here undertook improvements to their facilities. Lake Merceid brought in Rhys Jones in ninety six. Of course, the Olympic Club, you know, always had resources and opens and they were always doing work. San Francisco Club did work.

The Peninsula Club in two thousand and one closed down for the better part of three seasons and brought in ron Force to bring back some of the Donald Ross features. And so we had done nothing, and worse than that, the additional capital that had been accumulated by the rising

entrance fees had been squandered to subsidize operating losses. And in my opinion and the opinion of my friends, the outrage was that the directors of the club made no distinction between capital and operating money, and they did not want to raise the dues because they wanted to be popular with their friends. That's maybe the nature of a

voluntary organization. And so they took much of the fresh capital that came into the club and subsidized operating losses well by one to two thousand and three, through a couple of elections. We organized some like minded individuals to run for the board and did in fact get control of the board and started down this path of being more fiscally responsible, but also to address our golf course, which showed the effects of what I call amateur tinkering.

In nineteen ninety one, there was some ill advised lakes put in that were done with little architectural input. Not only were they ugly, but they were completely out of place. The place was a ribbon of asphalt. It was very wet in the winter because the trees had overgrown the place. We took out about two thousand trees in nineteen ninety seven, and that was because the USGA recommended it. But also there was a Green's chairman by the name of Bill Zirkle,

and you know, God bless him. He found a company that would remove the trees for the salvage value of the lumber and treework is extremely expensive and that's why it gets neglected. So you have all this deferred maintenance with trees around here. So that helped a great deal. But that was long before we thought of the Kyle

Phillips restoration. In two thousand and three, we had Bradley Klein from Golf Week as a dinner speaker, and Brad had a wonderful PowerPoint press presentation about the restoration of classic courses and the whole concept that we were trying to imbue in the membership is to make them realize what a gem they had and what it could be. And that was a hard sell because, as I said earlier, many of the members just just didn't have that kind

of a golf background. Well, once we got that conversation going, then we knew that we were about we were going to lose our greens because there was a chemical for nematodes that was going to be outlawed by two thousand and seven. And so we made the case that our greens needed replacement, and most people said, okay, that sounds reasonable, won't be too much money. And then of course I liken that to dragging the voting public, you know, from the goal line to the other end of the field,

and so, okay, we need new greens. And then you say to them, okay, but you can't tear up a green without doing the bunkers. Well, okay, so now you've got them to the ten yard line. And then you remind people that well, our irrigation system was done thirty years ago and it's past its prime. And then reluctantly

more people say, well, okay, that sounds reasonable. Now you've got them to the thirty yard line and so forth, and so because the other clubs with whom we compete for members had all done something and we had done nothing, there was that competitive thing too. It's like, you know, how is the club going to be vibrant if you don't keep pace. So in two thousand and five we interviewed ten architects and the idea was to hire somebody to give us a master plan and a proposal for

a Greens renovation. And that was the thinking. It was pretty modest then, and we went through two rounds of interviews. We cut the field to five. That's a great story in itself, and I think I remember most of them, but they were all interesting fellows. People you would like like that. You've probably met Mike Devrees, Brian Silva, David Essler, John Vote US Amateur winner, Tom Lehman, who spent two

hours with me here on Saturday. And Kyle Phillips, you know, clearly won the day with his presentation, his demeanor, his maturity, his background, because when he was being interviewed right in this room, it was evident to me, with my history at the club, that he had the maturity in the background to handle our members, because I knew that it was going to get ugly, and it did, and so

he made us think outside the box. We in our amateurish ways, had a rough idea of a part of the golf course didn't look right, and that was the corridor along Westboro that had been altered by Robert tren Jones in the sixties. And I know Ken Venturi was a great help during this period. He said the same thing. And so we asked all these architects to come back with a drawing that we ordered, said what would you do in this corner here? And they all dutifully complied

except for Phillips. And when Phillips came back for his second interview, he wouldn't take the bait, and people said, well, we're the drawings, and he as much as said, you know what, you don't get to look behind the curtain until you hire me. I'm the pro you're not. And he had a wonderful PowerPoint presentation saying, look, this was the old golf course it was wonderful, but this is the land you lost, and you're never going to get

that land back. However, you guys are lucky because you have seventeen acres in the middle of the property that you never used for golf, which was true, was up on a hill, was the highest point on the golf course. In nineteen twenty six, they didn't do that. And so when he walked out of the room, there was a fellow on our committee who had played the tour, made a lot of cuts. I was a member named Dennis Trixler, and Dennis turned and said, is there any doubt this

is our guy? And Dennis was good friends with Tom Lin. In fact, he caddied for him a lot on the senior tour. So we hired Phillips. He came up with

the plan at the golf course you see today. He did have some other plans, but we wanted to stay as true as we could to the nineteen thirty eight aerial photograph, and part of that was our consideration with We had been on the Golf Week Classic one hundred list, and I asked Brad Klein, how much can we change and still stay on the list, And he said, well, you know, you can't change the routing, and so our

goals were rather modest. In our wildest dreams, we didn't think we'd be where we wound up, and so so Phillips was constrained to that and he restored well. I remember I went with Phillips to Ken Venturi's house at Rancho Mirage. We spent a day with Ken, because you know, Ken had offered to help. He came up here for several meetings. He had been a friend of mine. I coached his grand children in the Little League. His son,

Matt is a very good friend of mine. And I knew that Ken's opinion would carry some weight with our older members because we needed to get a vote of the members to borrow the money and that's we needed to finance this. And so Ken we went to his house. We spent a day with him. Then Ken came up here and along with Aaron Oberholzer, who I know you've done a podcast with. And Aaron is he's just he's like a son to me. And Ken loved Aaron because

Aaron was like him. Public course, Golfer self taught Santase state and so Aaron had won the at and t the year that we were going to take the vote, and so Aaron and Ken and Kyle, we had a professional videographer and they made a CD which we sent to all the members where they he toured the golf course and they looked at different spots and they were down on what is our driving range today used to be the eighth hole, and that was it became very a bone of contention with the members of why are

you moving the driving range? They liked it close to the pro shop and so forth and so on, and of course they have a driving range like we do that doesn't require any netting, is a bonus that I think most members just don't understand. And it's forty by fifty all grass, and our old driving range was squeezed in between the first and second fairways with an asphalt

hitting pad and a slice wind. So that really was a pretty easy decision, but it was just a huge shock for people to hear that they had to take a cart and drive four hundred yards down to the range. So we then after those things, we had a dinner here and Venturi addressed the members and at that dinner, Overhoulzer gave the club his at and t trophy, and of course we all thought it was the first of many.

And Venturi stood shoulder to shoulder with Kyle Phillips and Aaron and he said, you know, folks, you get one shot at this and you don't get a mulligan. And to me that was profound because there were many members that while they they would go along with it, they wanted to do a piecemeal approach, maybe do nine holes at a time, or just fix a few greens. And of course it ken understood, and he explained to them, what you don't want is cereal fixes that could go

on for years. Just close it down, completely, blow it up, and do it right. And so that's what we wound up doing. We the vote carried to encumber the property with a mortgage, and the Board of Directors had a great deal of leeway in what happened next. There were no more votes to be taken about process. When they

scraped the whole place. It was actually it was frightening to me as someone who had been, you know, the proponent for this, when I came out here and it was all bare dirt, and I said, how, how in the hell do you build a golf course in the

middle of an urban environment. I just didn't understand. I didn't understand it because I had never seen it, and said, a lot of people, you know, just don't to this day, they don't understand that the place was just ground down to bare dirt, big drainage ditches, you know, trenches, and every fairway pipe millions of feet of pipe underground. You never look at a golf course the same way in your life until you've seen one built. And this was the first time I had seen one built from the

ground up. Most people just thought, well, you're just going to give it a nip and a tuck. It wasn't the case, and the work went so rapidly it was shocking. I think we were lucky because while we have neighbors on three sides, we have no housing on the Westboro Boulevard coming in from the freeway. And we brought in five thousand truckloads of sand and so that wasn't a big impact on the neighborhood. Just we created a lot

of dust and a lot of mess. And you know, we went around to neighbors and we we powerwashed a few houses and we gave them, you know, free coupons for the car wash. And so forth. But they actually they started. We got a little bit of a late jump. It was closer to May, but late April or May seven, and by the last green was seated in December. We did have some terrible rains in October and we had some setbacks there where we washed away some seed and

we had to do some things. It would have been faster. So the longest period of time was in the construction. It was growing the grass, and so the growing period was until July of eight when we reopened. However, we all know what was happening in the economy, and O seven Lehman Brothers blew up, and then but eight Lehman Brothers might have been owait. But the point is it was starting to go south.

Speaker 1

It was the worst time for a would have been for a golf course to open, or in your case, exactly just have Undertiken had taken a large sum of debt.

Speaker 3

Yes, and and plus we had a lot of older members who put themselves on the resigned list. And even then.

Speaker 1

Talk about the contention you guys face from. You know, obviously I imagine going from greens to greens and irrigration. There was there was some members that were on the other side of the fence of of we need to completely you know, blow it up and restore, slash, renovate a few holes of this. What what was that battle like?

Speaker 3

When you have an equity club where the members own it, you know people obviously they're invested in it. And I think our biggest bonus contention was that we were going very rapidly, and the people who opposed it most vociferously wanted more input. They wanted more voting. For instance, one one of the opposition's proposal was, well, have Kyle Phillips submit five plans and we'll vote on the one we like best. It's sort of like this rank choice voting

they do in San Francisco. All of these objections, some of them were personal, quite frankly, people that just you know, disagreed with the board for a number of reasons. There were people that you know, felt there was an agenda to price them out of the club and it would be more expensive. There's all these little, sort of petty things that happened at a club. And it's interesting because obviously private clubs are a certain slice of America, maybe

you know, upper middle class or upper class. But yet when it comes to their golf course, people can get in terrible fights over it and be very petty. But our contention always was that we we hired a pro and he didn't need micromanaging from us, And the idea that you know, a bunch of amateur golfers would be voting on a plan was absurd. And the resentment came when I think that the people who wanted more input, when they realized that the bylaws gave the board tremendous

authority to do everything except borrow money. Just once the vote passed to borrow the money, a lot of these people said, well, let's vote on doing nine holes at a time, like they did at Peninsula Club, and we said, no, you got to read your bylaws more carefully. You don't get to vote on that. So there was a lot of acrimony around that. When we had the rainstorm and we had we had a mudslide on seven, there was some of the I told you sos.

Speaker 1

And then when and probably during this time, you know, more and more members are kind of being the silent or the vocal minority.

Speaker 3

Oh yes, very vocal.

Speaker 1

More and more are dropping out at this time.

Speaker 3

To correct because they still had to pay dues while the place was closed.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and then you have to couple on top of that the financial you know, crisis that went happened.

Speaker 3

That's correct now they're obviously the financial crisis didn't affect our financing per se, because that was locked in. But as far as recruiting members at the previous one hundred thousand plus price, that went out the window. And so, like I said, there were some people that said, see, I told you so, this was a bad idea, and so forth and so on. And then, of course, as I said, they paid dues the fifteen months that it was closed. A lot of people didn't like that. But

you still, we still ran the operation. We painted the clubhouse, we had lunch every day, We left our chipping area open. And the thing that I'm really the most proud of is that the golf course contractor, who was the Olephant Company, it was a wonderful guy. He took on our crew and they did about forty or fifty percent of the work, so we never laid off anybody. We had our bartenders and locker room attendants. We taught them, you know, how to paint and scrape, and they got the place ready

for paint. But when we reopened, I remember our green screw, many of whom had been here twenty years plus. They had a hat made and on the back of the hat it said we built it, so they had ownership.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I completely invested and and you know, part of the project that can't be overstated. I feel like with any project having the the Green's crew be a part of it.

Speaker 3

Well, especially with the tenure. I think we had half a dozen guys with twenty years plus. We had one fellow it was here almost fifty years, so I mean it was unconscionable to think that you could just lay them off and call them back fifteen months later and expect them, you know, to be there a or to not be bitter.

Speaker 1

So they come back and whatever you're you're for example, you switch to fescu grass. So also of a sudden, there's new ways of maintaining it. They whenever you change something at somebody's work, they usually get upset, you know.

Speaker 3

If that's correct.

Speaker 1

But they were all a part of building it, so they understood why the change happened, and they understood, you know, they were a part of the you know, different maintenance practices that you were going to put in place.

Speaker 3

That's correct and to you know, further make their lives a little more difficult. The maintenance building that they had used for years was in the middle of some property that Phillips wanted and it was better for golf, and so we moved all of our personnel to these temporary structures you see in the parking lot. And it's taken now ten years. We're finally going to build a maintenance building.

But so for all these years, you know, they worked out of a I call them tents, but their tent buildings and trailers, and we had a mechanic working outdoors in the winter, so you know, they really this was their baby. And I never heard a complaint about those working conditions, which clearly were not what you would like. So that was a great success. So when we opened up for play, recession was kicking us in the teeth. It was September of eight.

Speaker 1

So how many members before, say, when you were in the process of voting to get to take out the loan versus when the course reopened.

Speaker 3

We probably had forty resignations and maybe another sixty or seventy people who had their name on a list to get out. But they had to keep paying dues because there was nobody coming in. So yeah, there were a lot of unhappy people. And thankfully for us, the economy rebounded faster in Silicon Valley than maybe the rest of the country, and we started to get some notoriety. We immediately got back on the Golfway Classic list. Ran Marrisett from Golf Club Atlas gave us a big spread in

two thousand and eight. Actually that's when I first met him, and I really think that that drove a lot of high IQ golfers to visit here, and especially raiders. And so as the economy improved, young people who could afford it, were looking for a place to play, who were serious about the game started to come around. And that I think saved us financially is that we have probably turned

over two hundred and fifty people in those years. We modified the bylaws in twenty ten, which I think has had a huge impact on the club because we created a special category for young men under forty and we call that the Byron Nelson category because Byron Nelson was a member here and was Ken Venturre's mentor and a good friend of Lowery's. And so when we overhauled the bylaws. We gave the board the latitude to create some ancillary

categories other than the owners. So we have national members, We have these byrons who are under forty and are paying their way gradually to full status, and we have about three hundred and fifty owners. And that that structure has given us a demographic balance. The club's gotten a lot younger anyway, and as I said before, the the preponderance of new members that have come in are either you know, in the tech business or the financing thereof.

So there's there's the finance community, the venture community, and the people in technology, and that seems to be the you know, the main occupation of our members. And that that's that's all you could ask for. Because right now the club is full. It has a younger, more vibrant membership. We went from a club that had a very heavy cart culture to a club that is eighty percent walking. We have a caddy program. Caddies aren't mandatory like they are at some places, but more and more people are

taking them. We have the youngsters who caddy in the summer from youth on course and it's it's become a place one of our older members. Who's one of my favorite people. He's a retired heart surgeon. He said to me, this is a club for people who are serious about the game, and I think that's true. It's doesn't mean that everybody's a five handicap. The most high golf IQ people I know are seventeen handicappers. But it's it's people who respect the game and respect what we have here.

We have brought back one of the Golden Age classics which had wandered so far afield from what it was intended to be. That's that's the greatest accomplishment of what we are today.

Speaker 1

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learn more. Member SIPC. I think the story of cal Club and one of the reasons I asked you'd come on is such a with the culture shift, you know, how the membership has changed, the type of member you have now is such a worthwhile story for the rest

of the golf world. You know that looks at renovation, whether it's a club and another city, a municipal course, where putting the golf, you know, really it was a example of putting the golf first and prioritizing the golf rather than the rest of the club's activities, and putting forth the best club a golf course product possible.

Speaker 3

That's absolutely true, Andy. The the golf is the priority in it. It had not been the priority by some people who felt they could force country club activities on members who didn't want to do it. And you know, they came up with all kinds of schemes. You know, they would if you brought a couple on Sunday, you'd get no green fees, if you stayed for dinner, and this sort of business. And like I said, you know, the old thing about real estate is location, location, location.

This location was never meant for country club activities. It's just it's very harsh here in the spring and summer. So by putting the focus on golf, I think we're identifying the people who appreciate that. As far as the culture, it takes longer to change, and obviously you turn over members, but you have to educate the new members. And I think a big turning point was twenty twelve when we

hired our general manager, Glenn Smickley. I've said this before, I've said it publicly, and Glenn knows how I feel after Kyle Phillips. He's the best thing that happened to us. And the reason is that Glenn was a superintendent by education. He was to grow in superintendent at the Robert tren Jones Golf Club in Virginia over twenty two years, rising to be the general manager, and he oversaw the first three President's Cups, two as a superintendent, one as a GM.

So he's very well versed in all aspects of running a club, but moreover taking care of a golf course. He also knows everybody in golf and when he came here, the management of our club, like a lot of clubs, had fallen on various boards of directors who tend to want to micromanage a club's activities. So we had a GM who was really not much of a golf guy, and then you had the club pro and the superintendent. And what happens at a lot of clubs. It's sometimes

it's comical, but it's tragic. They get like Bushwood and you have a president with a big ego, may or may not know anything about golf.

Speaker 1

It's kind of similar to what you were talking about with who are we to tell this pro architect what he should do? Correct amateurs? You know, like nobody comes to your job and tells you what to do that you know, does something completely different in life.

Speaker 3

That's exactly right. And so the shift, the paradigm shift, was to get the board to buy into the fact that they're there for governance, not management, and we have a general manager who is capable in all areas of the operation to be the chief operating officer of this club.

Now the trick was over, you know, several turnovers of board members to get board members to buy into that, because, let's face it, at clubs like this, you have, you know, people that own their own businesses, so it's their way or the highway. You have you know, corporate executives who are important people and very capable people. But exactly and

so right now we are there. And I think when when Glenn came on board, the big thing was his background as a superintendent, because we were going through a period where the golf course budget was not commensurate with the growing status of the golf course and that was a tough sell to some board members. And wait a minute, what do you mean we need this equipment, that equipment? Why does it cost so much more to keep this rescue this way, to keep it well? Because we're a

top one hundred golf course. Now we've got to start acting like one. And so for many years, as I alluded to, before the dues were artificially suppressed, there was a big culture shock in getting the monthly costs where they need to be to be who we are. And we're there now. And a lot of that credit goes to Glenn, where the board said, Okay, here's a list of equipment, what do we really need, how can we do this? What can we buy? What can we lease?

So forth and so on, And now you know, he's assembled his staff, he's hired our pro or food and beverage director. We have great staff, a great clubhouse engineer. We just we have so many great people. I mean, I kind of pinch myself every day hoping that none of them go away. And we have a great board of directors who understands the difference between governance and management, and so, you know, knock Wood, we can keep going in that direction.

Speaker 1

I think you touched on it a little bit, but hiring Glenn who had a clear expertise in your core product again once again, you know that focus on your core product is something I you know, if you tried to put this on to say a public golf scale, it would be say, you're a municipality, You've got your your parks and recreation board or you know, part of

the municipality is almost like your board. And hiring a GM that really gets golf should be their chief focus, as opposed to a GM that might know how to run a restaurant.

Speaker 3

Right. No, there's there's no doubt about it. And you know there's other clubs around here that are more country clubbish, but they have professional food people and they have a director of golf, and big budgets and so forth and so on. That's not who we are. We're all about the golf in a way.

Speaker 1

A country club or any golf course, especially one that has food service, apool tennis. It's a business that's got more variety than most businesses. You know, most businesses outside of like very large companies, are very focused on what they do. So in a way, you should almost run all the businesses as separate siloed businesses and allow somebody to run those businesses that have specialize in that.

Speaker 3

That's true. However, the practical side is most of these clubs I have memberships between three hundred and fifty and five hundred people, so you have a limited audience. So therefore, you know, the food and beverage can't make money, so they have quarterly minimum. And you know, there are certain things that are particular to private clubs that are just it's a luxury. It's not intended to be a profit making sort of thing. What we're seeing here, I'm seeing

it with some of our new members. This is their second club, believe it or not. And most of them live further south where in the summertime the weather could be twenty or thirty degrees warmer than here, and so they'll belong to a club closer to home that has all those amenities that the family would like, and then this is their place for serious golf, And to me, that's that's a heck of a formula if somebody can afford it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and there might not be a ton of people that can afford it, but the I think the balance of having the golf and nobody joins a country club and nobody joined a country club without golf, right, those were like there's very few. There's a few social clubs,

but that's a very small number. Nobody's joining in a country club for the food, that's correct, like the food in the pool and the tennis at most country clubs are a sales tool to get to play golf there, you know, and to get the whole buy in of the family.

Speaker 3

That's correct.

Speaker 1

So that's you know, I think that's where every you know, a lot of its losses where you know, and this is my opinion, is focusing on that stuff is ancillary to the golf course. The golf course should always be your priority because without the golf course, you don't have a club.

Speaker 3

Yes, and bear in mind though that even at private clubs, I remember the statistic that the average handicap is sixteen. I think people appreciate a good golf course if it's a great club, that's highly ranked. So if you belong to well, what are great courses that are also country clubs. There's a lot of them you can name. There's Oak Hill and maybe Madina and have you know, a full menu of family activities. But you're right, people take pride in the golf course and part of it is its

reputation and what other people tell them about it. And so that's all we have is the golf course. But I agree with you that you know, the primary function of a country club is the golf course, and you have to focus on that and make it as good as it can be. There are some locations that, you know, the golf courses the land is not quite right or but we're so lucky that we still have the majority of this original golden Golden Age golf course.

Speaker 1

We've talked a lot about the overhaul and you know, all the successes. Is there anything if you could go back in time, would you do anything differentrently from the way you guys went about the process?

Speaker 3

No, I don't think so. There were some things along the way that we may have negotiated a little differently with finances and so forth, but it's all. It's water under the bridge now. And I know Kyle Phillips doesn't have any second thoughts. He's you know, he wants to. We're tweaking the AHT a little bit. He was never quite happy the way that came out, and we're going to raise that a little bit. We've taken out car pass here and there. But no, really, there's no regrets about how this came out.

Speaker 1

We've talked a lot about culture. It's always like for any whether you're a company or whether you're a club, always something that's evolving changing. What type of stuff are you guys working on now to continue to evolve the culture in the direction you want to go.

Speaker 3

You know, I observe this now I'm not a board member anymore, and I think we have a terrific board and we have a reputation as a fun a fun club. I remember during the Open, Sports Illustrated does the Golf Plus edition, and you know they said the best of this in the Bay Area, best of that, and of course they always vote us the best bar. It is a place that people can come and have a great

deal of fun and camaraderie. I think what the board is we're constantly sensitive to is you can't become a frat house either, So yes, you should have fun, but it's still a gentleman golf club and I think that's where we're evolving a little bit. And it's a fine line. You can't have everybody be a scold and say you don't have any fun. But you and I have been to clubs where you know things are very quiet and staid, and you know people don't talk above a whisper. Well,

this club's not like that. We have a younger membership, they have fun. We're very welcoming to the kids. I know a local country club here where there's no kids under eighteen are even allowed in the locker room. We're not like that. This is a place for the members to enjoy. We try to treat a guest like a member,

and we get comments about that all the time. You see a perfect stranger sitting at the bar, and if you looks lonely or he's waiting for his host, one of our members will invariably go up and say hi, welcome. You never want to lose that. And but still it's it's a gentleman's club, and for instance, the culture. We've had a few tournaments where we have coat and tie for dinner. Well, coat and tie is a tough sell in Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley single handedly killed fashion in America.

But it just adds a touch of class, I think, And so you know, those are the little things.

Speaker 1

It's kind of it's probably the hardest thing is is towing the line between being with tradition but also being you know, up with the times.

Speaker 3

You know.

Speaker 1

So it's somewhere people want to hang out and people want you know that are younger that are your future owners of the club.

Speaker 3

Well, that's correct, and so we when new people them in, we asked them to purchase a club jacket. And I'm sure that there's some of our younger members that sort of wrinkle their nose and go, well, that's that's so Bushwood. That's old, stuffy East Coast clubs. But you know, there's something to be said for tradition and being well dressed and well mannered. I hope that hasn't gone out of style.

Speaker 1

Well, I mean, you talked about it, and when the club fell the furthest from its prominent was probably when you had the least amount of members that respected the tradition of the club and the history of the club.

Speaker 3

I think so or they were maybe well meaning, but their notion of what a golf club should be was not what it should be. They just didn't know. Nice people, but no golf I Q. Unfortunately, you know, some of

them gotten positions of governance. And that's another thing I'd love to insert here, is that I've been around the game my whole life, and I remember even hearing this from my dad in the nineteen fifties on the East Coast, that the better players at a club, the people who knew the game anyway, usually didn't want to be bothered. They go, come on, I come up here to play golf. I want to be left alone. I got enough trouble at work. I don't need headaches of being on a

volunteer board. That is what causes clubs to go downhill, because I saw it happen here. The people who should be running the affairs of the club don't want to be bothered, and so into that vacuum go to the people who serve, who either don't have the back or they have ulterior motives of ego, of this, of wanting to make a statement, and you know they serve for all the wrong reasons, and so you know, not to be melodramatic, but I think it was Edmund Burke who

said tyranny succeeds when good men do nothing. Well, this golf club went pretty far down the wrong road because good men did nothing. And in the years since, we have a wonderful member who was in the CEO of a professional search firm, and he taught us how to recruit, and we've recruited board members. We've gone to those good men and said you need to serve and a lot of them were reluctant, but they're glad they did it

once they did it. But we actively recruit, as we say, look for the best athlete, because the guy that raises his hand and says I want to be on the board, I'm always suspicious of that guy. We want. We try to get people involved early on in the process. Get on a committee, get on the greens committee, get on the finance committees, see how the place really works. Most members have no idea what it takes to run a club,

what it takes to grow the grass. And you try to get people involved and then from that will bubble up to the top, your best people because it's a big commitment. It's you know, the president of the club winds up here every day and one spell or another, and right now we're in the process of building a building. But it does take a commitment, and finding the people who are willing to make that commitment is the key to sustaining what we have here.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that I mean putting stock. I'd never even thought about that before, but when I was a member at a club, I would go and didn't want to be talk to you about anything. It's like almost a refuge place.

Speaker 3

That's how you get Judge Mails.

Speaker 1

Bushwood. Bushwood is actually a perfect thing for people, a perfect example of what not to do for everyone.

Speaker 3

That's correct.

Speaker 1

Beyond a you know, a comedic masterpiece, it's actually a great movie to watch and say, this is where everybody goes wrong for a sec.

Speaker 3

The old saying in humor there is truth. You know what makes comedians funny, They're usually reflecting on something very true about the human condition. And while it was hyperbole, Bushwood was the model for how many clubs operated.

Speaker 1

You've obviously invested a ton of time thought, and you've been out at cal club for you know, such.

Speaker 3

A long time, half a century almost.

Speaker 1

I'm getting there. And when you are out on the golf course, is there a spot on the course where you stand and you're like, wow, it gets you kind of every time.

Speaker 3

Yeah, on the back of the sixth hole, because you look out over the entire back nine, and of course

you've been here. But for people that are listening that haven't been here, if they look at the aerial photos, they can find online that the front nine originally was a counterclockwise loop, kind of a link that went around the hill in the middle, and the back nine has six contiguous fairways, so they're really two different architectural styles, and the front nine had been compromised by the street

beginning put in. But Kyle Phillips with what he did, now the front nine is as good as the back nine. Everybody that played here ago say, boy, the back nine is great. The front nine is just so. So now the front nine is equal to the back. But there's something majestic about the back because you see it all from the sixth screen and you've seen that. It's just it's fabulous. And even though there are six contiguous fairways,

it doesn't feel cramped. It's not a back and forth golf course because there's tremendous scale from the center line of one fairway to the center line of the other. And this is another thing that I learned from Phillips. And he's just brilliant. He's become a friend. We made him an honorary member, and nothing gets done here without him. And that's another bit of advice that I would give

to people who are thinking about doing this. Once you've got the work done, and if you've left it to a pro like Phillips, then you can't have amateurs come back in and start to fiddle with it. Be goes, I can tell you. I mean, we weren't open three months. People would come up to me and say, geez, you think we ought to change this over here or cut this. So Phillips was made a member immediately and we have

stuck to this. Now. It's not in the bylaws or anything, but everybody buys into the fact that nothing happens to this golf course without Phillips signing on.

Speaker 1

That makes a lot of sense, you know. Speaking to that back nine, I think what's so cool is that from that point from six, then you kind of descend down and then you pop back up, and then you play back down in eleven, and then it's like you're climbing up a ladder, and then you get the dramatic clothes of the short part three, the par five that crests over the hill, and then eighteen plays right back

down into the bowl. There's just so much variety in the topography and the roles of the land that it do you know while you're playing back and forth for a stretch of holes, each one the the content words that cut through the fairway, where the greens positioned, how the bunkers are arranged, are so varied that it's not back and forth.

Speaker 3

Golf that's correct. And of course the wind is the defender of the golf course against the good player, and the prevailing wind coming off the ocean is in your face on some very hard holes, like thirteen. Fifteen is a short par five, but it's dead uphill and it's into the wind most of the time. I don't want listeners to get the impression that this is a hilly golf course. The land has nice movement, but the difference

in elevation. The sixth green is two hundred and twenty feet above sea level and the first fairway, the first green is eighty feet so this is about one hundred and sixty, you know, so it's not a hilly place, but it's got nice movement. It's got enough so it's easy to walk, and you know, it's just it's just a pleasure to play every day. And the wind it's never plays the same every day. You don't get tired of play in here.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and then you get different weather so much here and that it's that it's always changing. Even in the middle of your round, it can shift. I've had it happened. So Al, I really appreciate the time. I hope all of our listeners enjoy and and can take a little bit from this to their home course, home club, because I think Cal Club's been one of the in the past, you know, two decades, clubs that have elevated themselves and

golf courses that have improved the most over time. So AL appreciate the time, and I hope everybody enjoys the story.

Speaker 3

Well I hope so too. I just hope that somebody can say that, you know, he left the place better than he found it. That's all I ever want to be said. Thank you.

Speaker 1

The club moved around a little bit and there was a lot of intertwining of some of San Francisco's most prominent clubs with different properties tell us a little bit about the early days of the California Golf Club and the different sites before they finally settled where the golf course is today.

Speaker 2

Oh. One of my favorite quotes is from an article in one of the California periodicals in the nineteen twenties which said, if ever a club was born with a silver spoon in its mouth, it was the California Golf Club of San Francisco. And the reason for that is because it inherited both already made golf course and already made club out that they didn't have to acquire it to leased it. Because the San Francisco Golf Club left the Ingleside property to go pursue their ultimate and final destination.

Speaker 1

After Ingleside, then they moved over to the current location.

Speaker 2

Exactly when the California Golf Club was created, it was in an attempt to fill a gap in the market. So you had the country Club, the San Francisco Golf Club, which contrary to its current state of affairs, really focused much more on social activities at the time, and then you had municipal golf and for the keen golfer who wanted neither the social side of things nor the overcrowded

beginners on the municipal golf course. There was nothing in the middle, and so that was really the original intent behind the creation of the California Golf Club at Ingleside. But they had one fundamental flaw in all of that,

which is they didn't own the land. And so in the early nineteen twenties, taking a look at the landscape, there was a general assumption that all of the land surrounding, Lakener said, which included the Ingleside Course which is now San Francisco State University, and included San Francisco Golf Club, the Olympic Club, Harding Park, all of that, that the land was going to become too valuable for golf course

and was going to be turned into housing. So in a bit of sort of innovative thinking, they decided to move further down the peninsula, seven miles south of Lake Merced and the land that they found in south San Francisco was they thought the best land available close to San Francisco, and so in nineteen twenty four they acquired the property and spent two years building it in nineteen

twenty six open for good. And of course there's no way they could have forecasted the Great Depression and everything that followed, which changed everything. And I think one of the things, and this is a bit of a tenuous link, but I think it's worth pursuing, is that the creation of the hetch Hetchy Reservoir, which provided water to the San Francisco Peninsula, changed the value of Lake Merced as a source of water for the citizens of that peninsula.

Speaker 1

Interesting with the evolution of California Golf Club to think about how the San Francisco Golf Club, which now is like a strictly golf club, and what the California Golf Clubs morphed into over time before the you know, undertaking of the renovation, they kind of flipped roles in a way a little bit.

Speaker 2

I think there are lots of different ways to look at it, and clubs can go through different lives. And there were periods of time when at the California Golf Club it was intended to be thirty six holes, the land was more than four hundred acres, but only eighteen holes never built, and so through time it just sort of shrank and shrank and the land was whittled down, either through the sale of properties to keep the club going or eminent domain for a variety of different reasons.

But there was a time when tennis courts were considered, which would be a mass to the club today. And so I think everything's backwards in a straight line when you look backwards. But at the time the kind of high golf IQ culture that currently defines the California Golf Club, that's not the story throughout its entire history with.

Speaker 1

That golf IQ. So the course originally when they moved to the South San Francisco location, the architectural lineage so originally was laid out by Vernon McCann avy McCann well.

Speaker 2

Even earlier than that, it was actually Willy Locke, who was involved with a number of other golf courses on the San Francisco Peninsula. He routed the golf course. And it's interesting to go through the minute books because literally two days on the job, Willi Locke was let go and Vernon McCann replaced him as the architect of record in nineteen twenty four.

Speaker 1

Unbelievable two days. It's got to be one of the shortest, shortest stints as a golf course architect in the history at time.

Speaker 2

Who's to say, but a lot was happening. And then what McCann did over the course of the next year and a half was build a golf course that, again going back to the minutes, the board said, was changed materially from the one that Locke had laid out originally, even though some of the holes and routings might have been the same. Essentially, when it opened for play in nineteen twenty six, it was a golf course by Bertan McCann.

Speaker 1

Okay, so then it opens in nineteen twenty six, and shortly after Alison mackenzie came in.

Speaker 2

Right, I think Alison mackenzie and Robert Hunter. It should also be said, through the American Golf Course Construction Company, they were the ones who and the details on exactly what occurred are a little bit light, but there was general reconstruction. At least a couple of greens were rebuilt, and all of the fairway bunkering and bunkering style was adopted.

If you look at photographs from nineteen twenty six, before mackenzie, Hunter and the American Golf Course Construction Company got involved, there was none of the sort of mackenzie style fingering and capes and bays and really dramatic artistic bunkers. There was much more oval plane and straightforward in shape.

Speaker 1

So what year was that that they came in?

Speaker 2

Nineteen twenty eight is generally when it's all sort of ascribed. There's a newspaper advertisement, sorry, magazine advertisement from the late nineteen I think it's November December of nineteen twenty eight, which has a photograph of the tenth Green at California Golf Club and lists a number of other projects that the American Golf Construction Company is working on, including the work at Cyprus Point, so that gives you your date

for that work. Plus there's a nineteen twenty nine aerial photograph that shows the McKenzie style bunkers still relatively raw in shape.

Speaker 1

It's amazing with all the aerials you can kind of track it all nineteen twenty nine. Then you know shortly after that the Great Depression hits. How does the club go through that?

Speaker 2

I don't think. The interesting thing is there's since photographs from nineteen forty and it's easy to look back on the twenties and the thirties of this golden names of golf course architecture, and there's no way to anybody sort of a reasonably right mind would compare the photographs of the sort of post Mackenzie era in the nineteen thirties when the trees were growing and filling up, and nobody would say that that golf course is better than the

golf course that the members played today. No chance, both in the beauty of the landscape, the architectural features, the balance of the trees, the open spaces, the views, none of that. But the club weathered the storm of I think did a great depression of World War Two in a fun way, so that a lot of the leading citizens of San Francisco were members of the California Golf Club,

not just the California Golf Club. One of the interesting things I'm not sure if al covernt or not it was how Eddie Lowry was both the president of cal Club in nineteen forty seven and the club champion at San Francisco Golf Club.

Speaker 1

He didn't so that was into the fifties. And when did they start to make major golf course alterations.

Speaker 2

Well, the fundamental change from a golf course standpoint comes in the middle nineteen sixties because of eminent domain, So the County of San Mateo claims the land on the north side of the golf course, which encompassed the old first, second, or third, fourth holes all the way along what's now Westboro Boulevard, and county paid for the Robert Trent Jones Senior design firm to come in in the late sixties

and rebuild those holes. So some of the great holes from the early days in the McCann and mackenzie era were lost forever along the creek that's now under Westboro Boulevard.

And it was that change architecturally to the golf course, along with some economic challenges in the San Frusco Bay area in the nineteen seventies that really started to change the culture of the club away from the kind of players golf club that had attracted Ken Van Curiy and Harvey Ward and Eugene Salvage and George Archer in the fifties and sixties, into a different kind of local golf club in the next couple of decades.

Speaker 1

And so then the club goes on and there are pretty minimal changes until the renovation from Kyle Phillips or is there.

Speaker 2

More no I'd say there was some substantial changes. So keep in mind that the club hosted the nineteen seventy c USGA Senior Amateur Championship, which is its one and only USGA championship, and this was all post Robert Trent Jones changes and ponds had been installed. There was a drop shot part three, and it was generally accepted that

this was an outstanding course. In fact, if you look at the club's archive, there's a letter from Frank Hannigan at the USJA, the long time executive and executive director, talking about the quality of the golf course as the side. An interesting point is that Gene Andrews, who won that nineteen seventy Senior Amateur, is believed to be the first person to win a USG national championship using an anchored

long putter. Nineteen seventy events pretty wild. But as the golf course matured and trees grew in the seventies and eighties, and finances were difficult and the focus wasn't put into maintenance like it is today. I think the club shift did from and this is all due respect to the people who did the best they could at the time they had it shifted away from a club where golf first came together as a club to just simply a

place where people played golf. The membership was much more transitory, coming and going, and the priorities were not about golf,

they were about other things. And one of the byproducts of this was in I can't remember the exact dates right now, but the installation of the ponds on the eleventh and the eighteenth holes, and if you look at some of the photos into the nineteen nineties and early two thousands, when you played that famous twelve hole looking away from the clubhouse, you had a pond on either side, right and left of you as you were approaching the par three.

Speaker 1

Definitely a stark contrast to today's version. Would you say about go ahead?

Speaker 2

Well, I was just going to say. One of the other things is the introduction of things that you wouldn't see a cow Club now, such as hedges around the tees. There was a lot of visual clutter and interference in a way that seems completely alien now because the Cow Club landscape is one of the cleanest, tightest, most open anywhere in American golf.

Speaker 1

How would you say what Cow Club was doing? And you know what kind of happened with the trees, the hedges, the ponds. It was more following the trends really of the industry at the time. Correct.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think the idea that golf clubs exist in a vacuum is completely unreasonable. Golf Clubs are cultural byproducts and people live in that culture, and so they're looking around and they're seeing what's fashionable. And if water and trees are fashionable, and fountains are fashionable and hedges are fashionable, then it's hard to resist those forces.

Speaker 1

And then with the changes that they made, so in a way they were somewhat reactionary in this period. And would you say, you know, from a historical standpoint, looking at what we're seeing now at the you know, the last twenty so years of golf architecture. In a way they were on the forefront when they underwent the renovation with Kyle Phillips, where they were on the leading edge.

Speaker 2

Well, I think where they were in a forefront position is in the category that I think you could best describe as a retrovation. It's not truly a renovation because you're not there's an effort to restore elements, features, routing, the appeal of the original routing and to try and fix the problem with the five holes. So there is

a restoration element to it. But when you're stripping it down to the studs and putting the sand amendment that you did and rebuilding all the infrastructure underneath, I mean, that's completely a reconstruction of the golf course, but it's

being done in an older style. And so I think col Club is absolutely one of the leaders in the clubhouse when it comes to not accepting what you were and not accepting what you are, but trying to imagine the best that you could possibly be and having the willingness to take the risk to find out what that is.

Speaker 1

I think that's the core at its core, what's so special is that line, you know, not accepting what you are. That is the core of what you could learn like and what everybody from a municipal to the club down the street can learn from cal Club in the sense of, hey, like, we're going to be our own thing, and it's going to be, you know, the best we can be, not what somebody else is down the street.

Speaker 2

Right absolutely, and remember what's the name of the place, California Golf Club. And so it shouldn't it represent all the best of the pioneering spirit, the frontier ambition of California. I mean it's not locked into the European traditionalism of East Coast clubs and the patriarchy and patrimony and all these things. I mean, it's California. It's at the edge of Silicon Valley. It's at a risk taking place, a

culture of innovation. All of these buzzworthy things that go around, but these aren't These aren't new ideas of the One of the great quotes to me in thinking not about the California Golf Club, but just the environment itself, comes from of all people, aw Tillinghast, who says in February of nineteen twenty, when one stands on a California course, he almost invariably impressed with a magnificent panorama. The country

seems so very big. Everything is on such a gigantic scale that it makes itself felt as well as seen. The trees seem bigger than those usually encountered, and they are the mountains loom high and extend far. How is it possible to put pawky things in the very heart

of such surroundings? And I think if you stand on the back patio at the Cow Club, and you take a look at that expansive view in the heart of some of the most densely populated urban areas in the United States, and you've got San Francisco Airport to the south, and you've got the San Bruno Mountains on the other side, and you've got the ocean breezes, and you've got these high moderny pines and cypresses and open spaces, and it's exactly the same view that Tilling has had nearly one

hundred years ago.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's that's an unbelievable quote. And that's I think California golf in general, and it's just such a different flavor of golf than the majority of the United States and the rest of the world.

Speaker 2

When we started working on all the historical stuff and trying to find a way to use the past of the California Golf Club to create its future, the thing that I said to Al Jamison and John McGovern, folks who were involved at the Long Range Planning Committee, was how can you honor the name of your course. It's the most ambitious name you can have, apart from the national golf likes of America. It's the California Golf Club. It's not San Francisco or Los Angeles or San Diego.

It's the California Golf Club. And so, how can you, in everything you do from golf course to clubhouse, to the quality of your membership, to all of your principles that you care about, how can you honor the name of your club by offering the highest private golf experience you can.

Speaker 1

And Calvin, you've been listening to the fried Egg podcast. We do the digging before you

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