I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a brid egg Friday Egg, the.
Dreaded Frida Egg Friday fridagg Bride Egg.
Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the.
All right, welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am here with my wonderful co host, Garrett Morrison. Garrett, how are you doing?
Hello? We are in person.
We're at the Dratty House.
We're at the Drafty House in Augusta, Georgia, and it's it's great to be in person.
Yeah, it is wonderful. Garrett. You just wrapped up a couple of days at Annwha. I just wrapped up getting on site, checking in, getting a milling about Augusta National for a day. We're here. So this is the beginning of Master's week. This is Sunday afternoon recording, and we got a fun little activity. I it was a hard activity.
I have to say. We are going to rank. So I ranked one through eighteen the holes of Augustin National, and you ranked one through eighteen the wholes of Augustin National. I don't think we set criteria you could. You know, this is definitely not like I didn't. I didn't go about it as a ranking of like holes with the most drama or the greatest moments in Master's history. I kind of just looked at them whole by hole. So
I want to preface that here. You know, I'm sure when we're talking about the holes, some you know, people are going to be upset that maybe a certain certain holes or places. You know, this was just opinion everybody. I would urge everybody to try and do it themselves. It's actually like really hard. I like got to a point and I was like, wait, I can't believe this hole is so far down, you know. And then I was looking at what was ahead of it, and I
was like, I don't think there's really a spot. How do you find that?
There's a lot of less good holes here? So if a hole is in the bottom half of the ranking here, we're not saying it's bad. This is one of the great courses in the world. Obviously, it's great because a lot of the holes are really really good. So if a whole place is fourteenth out of eighteen, that doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that we think other
holes are better. Yeah, criteria is a you know, that's an interesting question here, because even if we're just ranking them architecturally and not based on memories or moments or whatever, there's still a lot of ways to rank holes architecturally. You know. Should we be talking about them as competitive elite golf holes, like what they do to the players in the Masters, or should we be ranking them, you know,
from the perspective of amateurs or even just all golfers. Right, should we be ranking them from the championship tees or the member tees, because those are very different golf holes. I ended up going kind of with the master's perspective, right, how well did these holes function in the Masters? And so right way, I think.
I even thought about it that much, you know, I kind of just I just went off.
You just went off feeling is this whole better than that one?
Well, I'll tell you what. I started trying to do this in in Apple Notes. I use Apple Notes a lot to write. It's become my new like word processor, actually, but I started doing that with like a numbered list, and then I was in the media center and one of the coolest things in the Media Center. Brendan hates them, but I think they're really neat. Is they have these old notebooks that they you know, I don't think anybody in the press uses it really now I haven't even
seen them, but they're these old notebooks. They're like they're like an eight by eleven. They've got the master's logo across. And it was like, clearly how like old journalists used to chronicle rounds. It's got a player named Date Round and you could track, like, you know what clubs they were hitting, the number of putts, and there's a space for notes, but it lists every hole, the yardage in
the bar. And so it created this awesome way to rank them because I just filled in under the club section all my rankings and it's it was an amazing way to visualize it. I'll post a picture of it with the pod.
Yeah, it's really nice. And by the way, I wanted to give some acknowledgment to where we got this idea. This is a great account name Jean van de Veld Revenge account is the is the name of the account that proposed to us back in February. You know, he says, this is probably a very stupid theme. But I'd love to hear a fry a golf podcast episode titled ranking
all eighteen holes at Augusta National. And you know, we thought that was that was a pretty decent idea, something fun to do kind of midweek Masters week.
As I mentioned at the top, we are at the Dratty House. B. Dratty is our great longtime apparel partner. It's spring. I think this is a great time to examine what you got going in your closet right now, Garrett, you were out on like a crisp day at Agussa. What what'd you rock? What was? What were what were your options from Dratty?
Now? Already this ad read is going off the rails because I don't know the exact term for it. But I was wearing a B. Dratty hoodie, the.
One that you and I saw, the Proctor hoodie. The Proctor hood is great.
I would wear that every day if I could, If if people would like let me wear the same clothes every day, I would wear that every day.
If you had like or five of them.
Yeah, I just need four or five of them in like different colors. I think even then my wife would be like, why are you wearing the same style of hoodie every day, but I think I would go for it. It's so comfortable. It's just the right kind of thickness, you know, it's it's great.
So that's the Procter hoodie. I you know, it made me think of the you know, A related related item that they make is the Russell Kru neck, which is another great one. I remember I was getting I was getting ready. We were going on like a casual date night, and I was I put on clothes and I was like, what do you think about my outfit? My wife, you know, she always asked me, and I was wearing like a pair of pants and a Russell Kru neck and She's like, I mean you wear that like every day. So there's
this stuff. This is stuff I live in.
But she wasn't offended by it. She was like, Okay, you still look good. Fine, yeah, special, but it's fine.
So the crew dock, the Russell crew, the Proctor hoodie great great items if you're in like a spring climate where it's a little chili. I just got back from Northern Ireland, which was like I think, like peak spring, like kind of gnarly spring golf weather in March I wore every day there, I wore different jackpolo. So the long sleeve Jackpolo, I'm not. I'm not gonna lie. Before they sent me one of these, it was one. I was like not into the long sleeve polo. Now I'm very,
very like. I wear them a lot. I really like them. They're like the perfect if it's gonna be fifty degrees in the morning, item to wear it is. It's great. If you throw a vest on with it, you are like your Primetime You're like perfectly layered. So if you use the promo code TFE thirty, that's TFE thirty at
b draddy dot com, you get thirty percent off. Big thanks to them for uh supporting what we do, supporting our week here down to Augusta National and the d House, supporting the House, supporting the House.
Got to have a roof over our heads.
Exactly a lot of fun happens in this house this week. So all right, let's get to our holes. Garrett, you're the guest here. Do you want to go one through eighteen or do you want to go eighteen through eighteen through one? You want to oh god, we're going to start with the negatives.
Yeah, but we got it in a positive note. We're not going to hook people send people out on a high right.
We're hooking people in with the with what we think is the worst hole at Augusta National Right.
We're going negative. I don't think we are the problem with media.
I want to be clear here. I don't. I don't. I don't think anybody should be able to characterize this as the worstule. This is my eighteenth favorite.
This is the.
Least good hole. Yeah, I think, what.
Do you have?
You got seven?
I'll get seven too, I thought, I mean I almost I I was doing this and I was like, I know, Garrett's gonna have seven as the worst. And I almost zigged, just as zig just so we had something different. But I couldn't get myself to do that. Why why do you have it here? It's probably the same reasoning as me.
I think it's just the ultimate example of what tigerproofing has rot. Not every bad thing that has happened to that hole is a result immediately of tigerproofing. There have been a lot of trees on that hole for a long time, but now it's just long. It's got trees really close on both sides. The fairway is really narrow until it opens up towards.
The can I tell you another little thing about that fairway. It's so hard to hit.
Yeah, because if you go off the right side.
It can't you can't really see it from TV, but the fairway slopes pretty a pretty good click clip left to right.
Yeah, So it's like it's.
So hard to hit, it's so narrow. Functionally, the ten the ten yards of the right half of the fairway mean you're going to go in the rough and then you're probably gonna be blocked out.
Yeah. Yeah, you've got tree trouble. And yeah, you've summed it up right there. It's just it's not it's you know when I say it's not the hole, it was meant to be. Obviously, as soon as Perry Maxwell lengthened that hole and put the green up on the hill instead of having it down below in the valley where it was originally, the hole kind of took on its identity. You know, It's it's not quirky. It has not been
a quirky hole for a long time. But I think the narrowing and the lengthening have just kind of turned it into a slog. It's a place where you know, they're just trying to keep the scores a little bit higher. And I understand that, but you know that's why it's the least good.
Hole, all right. So my devil's advocate take on, like, how you could you know if you love seven. I think this is what people might say is listen, it's the most execution t shot out there, and maybe the golf course from a sense of tea shot variety, should have one hole where it's like you have to hit it really straight. I think like Augusta has a lot of like pretty generous corridors where the corridor space you have every hole you want to be a certain spot,
but the corridor spaces are fairly wide. Now, they might say, in terms of variety, this gives it one very narrow hole that you have to execute on this narrow thing. It's a change up from the rest of the course. It's a different window. And then the other side is there's been a lot of really exciting moments that have happened from the trees approaching that green. There have been some cool shots over the years.
Yeah, and I think the green itself is pretty interesting. It is idiot. It slopes off pretty hard to the left side. There's a number of different sections to it. So again, this is a national There's gonna be a lot of cool things about any individual hole, but this is just the one I think of when I think of what has kind of gone the wrong direction for me at Augusta in the past twenty five years or so.
And I think like every one of these holes, for the most part, has a really interesting green. And what's cool about this green is it's the most it's really the most shallow green, and it it's just like you have to hit a really really great second shot here, and it's cool green.
So all right, why don't we go with your seventeenth ranked hole?
Is my seventeenth I have this in chronological or my computer, but I'm using the list here. This is krock going to be controversial. I have eighteen. It's my seventeenth ranked hole.
Okay, where is what on your list? Let me see. I was just numbering them because I have them in order instead of like numbered. So eighteen, seventeen, sixteen, fifteen, fourteen, thirteen, I have it at thirteen. That was one that was a little difficult for me to place. I do think it has a pretty wonderful green.
It does, so every hole there has a wonderful green for the most part.
Absolutely. I think the the other thing that I like about it is that I just I like it at the end of the tournament when you know, you finish up this stretch of pretty gettable holes and you come to eighteen and you've just got to hit a banana slights around the corner and a you know, straight uphill shot and find the right section of the green. For some reason, over the years, I've I've gained some more affection for it. But why is it seventeen?
I just don't love like the outside bunkers in terms of the golf hole. They weren't there originally. I don't. I don't think the hole really needs them.
That tea shot looks ridiculous. When you look down, all you can see is the bunkers.
It's you know. I think the thing about Augusta that I love the most is the t shots that have like a lot of dynamics to them, Like if you play here you get this, but you could play over here and it's like the shades of gray that that It's like the golf course isn't it isn't like you're not right or wrong when you hit a T shot. On most holes, it's not like a true or false
and eighteen feels like it's true or false. Like it feels like every T shot at Augusta's kind of like an essay, and it's like, you know when you're writing an essay, or when you used to write an essay and he've gotten off to a really bad start. You know, like it's like familiar with this, It's gonna be very good, you know, Like but I could save it. I could.
There's still time to save it. That's how every T shot at Augusta feels like, like even if you hit a bad one, you're like, Okay, I can redeem myself here the eighteenth it just doesn't feel like it feels more true false than like giving you the chance to redeem yourself even if you get off to a bad start. That being said, there are some really cool things I
like about the hole. A subtle thing that I really love about the hole is I think like for a finisher, having the approach shot, hitting an iron off an upslope when you're uncomfortable when you're trying to get around to the house is really hard. Because like hitting irons from an upslope, like if you're not feeling right, it's really easy to tug them left. It's really easy to leave them high out right, like you have to make a really committed swing, and that upslope is like pretty severe.
It is like it is a not an easy shot. So I think that are like with all these holes, again, is the least bad, Like this is just kind of where I like, I was doing this exercise and I just like there are things about every other hole that I liked a little bit more. I like the green. I like a lot of other greens more though, So it's here. I don't think this is right or wrong answer. And again, this is isn't about like the moments that
happened here. It's more so about the hole. Obviously, if we're going with like moments that happened on this hole, it would be way higher because it's literally the last hole determining championships. Yeah.
Yeah, So it has that position because it's the last hole, and I think that part of my view of it is a little bit biased by that. But I also had it in my bottom half of holes, so I'm pretty much on board with everything. You're saying there you want to hear my seventeenth ring hole sixteen.
I knew yours was going to be there. I'm bumped it way up.
I knew what did you What did you bump it to?
I bumped it to thirteen.
Okay, well that's where I had eighteen. So we're actually in the same situation here. Now this is a bit of admittedly a petulant take from me. Sixteen. I just think that hole has a lot of potential even where it's laid out now. Robert tren Jones re routed it after World War Two, right, the old Mackenzie hole is not coming back. It was in a different place. I
think there's still a lot of potential in that hole. Obviously, it's created a number of wonderful moments during the Championship, like some of the roars that have happened there, some of those hole in one opportunities. But people may be surprised by my main objection here. It's not necessarily that the funnel pin is silly. The funnel pin is what it is. I think it is a little bit silly, but you know, it's so exciting that I can almost
forgive it. The main thing that bothers me about the hole is that the green is just totally out of style with the rest of the greens at Augusta National. There's not as much interesting shaping or ideas on or around that green. It's pretty much a straight tier.
I think, especially around the green.
Around the green is the biggest tell that that's not an original green. If you look around the greens, at the exterior contours on pretty much every other hole at Augusta National, there's something really artful and clever going on. Look at the first green, look at the fifth green, Look at the fourteenth green, look at the seventeenth green. If you walk around those greens, you can see some artistry going on and some thought going into how the
green is built up. From the Grade sixteen, it just the transition from the putting surface to the fringe is pretty much flat, and I think that's a bit of a miss at a course that is so identified with its green contouring.
All right, I had it thirteen. I'm just you know, we talked about not doing stuff on history or moments. I think I probably got it up there because I was like, you know what, a lot of moments, lots of moments and it's pretty. You know, I think that's probably very pretty. And I think like.
It's so beautiful in that little valley there. That's why I think it has such potential because it's a great place for the whole.
I also will say, like I love watching golf at a lot of places. Augusta National. The atmosphere there on a weekend is like, if you know, okay, I say this like every kind of pot or tip that I give people when somebody asks me for tips for watching it Augusta National. If you ever go, get the chance to go on the weekend, which is like a very rare ticket, this hole gets like loaded up. It's you know, everybody's going to watch golf there because of the chances.
Like one of the cool things about Augusta is the policy on seats. It's very much a like shared thing. So it is perfectly cool if you see an open seat to go, sit in the seat, and if the people that come, the people that put the chairs down come, they're just going to tap you on the shoulder and say, oh hey, this is my seat, and you just get
up and go and it's like a fine thing. So if you see two open seats, your mill and about you can go sit and like, I think I've moved it up to thirteen mainly because like on a Saturday, on a nice Saturday or Sunday at the Masters, it is there is not like really a better place to watch golf than right there.
It's great. And something that I noticed during this last anwah is how close that fifteen sixteen hub is amazing to this central hub of the property, which is two Green, three t seventeen Green, eighty seven Green. That whole area is basically the center from which the routing kind of radiates out. And the magical thing about it is that you can just walk straight to it from the clubhouse because there's a big thoroughfare down there to the side
of the eighteenth Fairway. You just cross a couple of holes and you're there. From that point. From that central hub, it's not very far at all to fifteen and sixteen, so it's really kind of part of that whole complex.
Well, it's so close to to like five Green, sixty sixth Green, it is, like, I mean, it's right there.
Because sixth Green is basically right on top of the sixteenth hole.
When you think about that hole, it's kind of like almost the very center of the golf course from like a you know, it's an oddly shaped golf course. It's not, and it's like one of the center points of the golf course. Is that like that hole?
Yeah, well, we're making a good argument for it, But the fact is, I think it was just a kind of obvious miss not to match that green to the rest. In general style, you don't have to repeat ideas, but general style should should be cohesive across this golf course. What what do you have for ye? All right, I'll go, should I go? Oh, yeah, it's my turn? All right, my turn, I'll go. I'll go. Fourth hole. That's fine,
that's fine. Look at that agreement. I don't think this is a bad hole me either, I really don't think so.
It's a really hard hole.
It's very hard. It's very long. For what the green.
Is so shallow.
There is land the ball in this green with a long club.
There is an amazing knob right in the middle of it in the green, and it's a very subtle shelf and it's terrifying. It is terrifying if you're on the wrong side of it, like it is scary. Legit putting from the back to the front of this green is scary. Yeah, I just think it doesn't have a ton of character.
It's just a little one dimensional and it's it's an edenhole, right that that was the original idea, that this would be an edenhole, and it just seems like there's there's more that you could do with an edenhole. And of course originally the green was different. They had this big tongue coming down on the left. I think that central
bunker was smaller. It's really big now and it kind of dominates the front of the green and it just kind of turned the hole into carry this bunker and try to stop your ball on the other side of it, instead of something more nuanced.
I think the other aspect of this hole that makes it feel a little bit. It's so siloed off from the rest of the course, and a lot of this is like infrastructure that the club has, Like I think one of the member restaurants is very close by. There's a road that goes kind of like behind five T and this hole just like kind of like it feels if you were thinking of Augusta National as a house. It feels like a weird off off the side of
the house room. It's like a mudroom and mud you know, like it's like part of the house, but it's not really in the house, if that makes.
Sense, totally makes sense. I love that analogy. Never I think I've never heard that applied to golf before.
And I think that's like one of the real the one when I was thinking about the hole and why because I do really like the green and again, this is a really great golf course, so like all these holes like this is great.
Into like yeah, good holes. We're no longer talking about holes that are kind of jacked up. These are these are good holes.
I just like, I think that's part of it. If if you think about where it is, and this is partly like infrastructure, like all the things that go into staging this tournament. But if I looked from the tee up five, if that was all open, I think I'd feel a lot differently about this hole. If I could just like see up five, if I could see down six, like in down sixteen, and through fifteen, like through the valley, I think I'd stand on this tea and be like,
what a cool hole. But because it's so walled off, and because like what you said, I I think the green and the bunker of have gotten a little bit out of whack in terms of their interaction in scale, Like everything feels off because you have this like huge bunker in this walled off room and a really cool green this masked in it, and it kind of like, of all the holes at Augusta National seven sixteen, it
feels the most ordinary. It feels like the hole that you could see at any golf course in America the most.
It's a just a carry, you know. And in some ways this is a comparison that doesn't do justice to this hole or to Augusta National really, But in some ways it reminds me of the twelfth hole at Pebble Beach. You know. It's just a just a simple kind of mid iron. But for these guys, mid iron.
Much better green than the twelfth at Pebble Bee.
Much much better green. Obviously, I think that's a given when it comes to Augusta. But that's you know the spirit of it. Just kind of carry the bunker and make sure your ball stops on the other side of it. It's kind of what it's becoming now. Players get into interesting situations once they're on and around the green, and that's that's the difference.
So all right, my number fifteen, I'm sad. I'm like, actually like extremely sad this is fifteen because I feel like it could be honestly a top five hole on the golf course. And it's kind of like the look what they've done to the beautiful boy.
Beautiful boy.
Yeah, Like I when I think about this, because the green is extra I think it's a top three green on the golf course. The seventeenth hole is my fifteenth.
And it's probably because of what they've done to the fairway, right, like what's happened with that?
So the reason the reason it's here is it's just it's become super one dimensional with the with the tree planting, narrow fairway, and it just has kind of lost the idea like when you have like truly extraordinary greens, you want the ability to have shots come in to them from different angles. What you're doing is you are you're creating more outcomes for the way the play on the
hole can play out. The more space you allow players the opportunity to get to places that they could take advantage of certain pins or be an extreme disadvantage for other pins. And this green. God. I think I could just sit and stare at it all day.
I would, especially the back of it and also the well internal contouring.
The thing that's probably the most amazing aspect of it is that it looks like it is it That back right is a shelf that's higher. But the way the ball rolls on the green, it runs from left to right like it's downhill right, And that's the whole that's that's sitting on the whole slope of the property that goes left to right. So it's an optical illusion. I mean the front, the back, left, little bowl, the front section, the pin just over the bunker. I could go there.
This green's amazing, amazing green, and it's being the brilliance of the green is being kind of diminished by how execution The t shot is similar to what we talked about with seven. But this is just a out of this world great green, and it's gotten itself to fifteen despite you know, kind of the narrowing.
Yeah, I have it at at twelve just because of how much I love the green. But I can't go much higher than that. One question I have that's not answerable is how much of the green and which sections of the green are original because the front of it is not original. That's not what Mackenzie and Jones designed in the early nineteen thirties. There were no bunkers in front of that original green.
There's no bunkers on the whole hole.
Yeah, and it had this big kind of mound to the left of the green. Now I suspect that the back of the green and some of the internal contouring is kind of still what they built. But I believe Perry Maxwell may have made some ana.
Some fronting bunkers on the left and right side in thirty and that's.
Kind of what produced the modern green, which is still wonderful. And by the way, Perry Maxwell one of the great builders of greens in the history of golf architecture, so that there wasn't any kind of bad lineage coming into Augusta with those alterations. But yeah, one thing I noticed this last time, when I was really looking at seventeen is that the fairway kind of tilts against the general tilt of the property. It goes from right to left, but then there's this knoll to the right of the
current seventeenth fair way. Once you crest that, then you start going left to right down toward Amen corner, and that's where the fifteenth fairway is, which tilts left to right from the perspective of the seventeenth tee. So these two holes are kind of separated by a peak right and there used to be no trees where there is a grove of trees now pinching the fairway from the right between the seventeenth and fifteenth holes. And so the
strategy here used to be. Mackenzie said in writing about the hole that you want to come into this screen from the right side of the fairway, but if you get too far to the right, then you're rolling down into the fifteenth fairway and you're probably blind into the green from there. So you want to try to get to the edge of this slope to find an angle into the green. That was the original essence of the strategy. But now there are trees all over what this fantageous
position used to be. And that's the problem. That's the problem. It's an execution t shot into a wonderful green.
All right.
What was your fifteenth My fifteenth place hole is nine.
I just think I had this twelve.
I think this is an entertaining hole to watch, especially once you get up around the green, you never know what's going to happen. I just think it's become a little bit one dimensional. Off the tee. Obviously a draw is preferred.
I love the T shot. I actually think the T SHOT's really good.
Yeah, And you can kind of position yourself nicely. Yeah, dude, players kind of get in similar positions down at the bottom of this valley somewhat. But when you stand on that tee and watch players hit shots, you realize that they really have to hit a good golf shot.
It's an unnerving T shot for the modern game, where everybody hits a fade. You stand on that tee and really like you feel like you have to make a really good swing to like, at at the bare minimum, you can't like just hit like the ball that like kind of like just slides right. You need to at least hit it straight.
Yeah. Absolutely, And if you get out of.
This and I think, like the thing that I would say versus like the other holes that we've talked about is like they did this this hole. You stand on the tee and feel that way without trees just all over the place.
Right, there's a tight line in a wide fair way yes, and so that's what really still works about this t shot. I think now the green, I don't know if there's necessarily anything wrong with it. It's just really really tilted and it doesn't have as much putting surface as it used to have, and so the pin positions are really limited. And I guess that's my issue with it.
Yeah, I have it a little higher just because, like I think like the I think, if you know, the thing is, I think nine for me would fall the most with like tree removal. You know, it would tumble down, and it might be but like to me, the hole is really it's hard for me to come up with a reason I don't like the hole. And I know what the old green used to like it look like, and there's got there's a lot of romanticism around it.
I think the current green works really well with how the golf hole lays out, like all the like, where you have you're hitting a short iron from a downslope to a green that you can't miss short and you can't miss long left, and so you know you can't miss short and so you naturally pull it long left, and then long left is awful. So I just think
it's like a really cool hole. It's it requires like it's super scorable, but it requires really good shots and if you don't hit one of them, then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I got hit do something really good to make par, you know, And so I like it. And again there's a great golf course. So like, it's twelve, I'm talking about this and it's twelve on my list.
Yeah, you're you're talking about a hole you like. Yeah, all right, let's do fourteen. What is your fourteenth place?
I think you're up again?
Am I up again? Okay? Yeah?
Only when we over This.
Is another slightly petulant take, but there's some feeling behind it. And that's eleven. I was.
I struggled.
This is a great area. This should be a great golf hole. I did. The reason I've put it down here below eighteen and below seventeen where it doesn't belong.
I have it ten.
Okay, yeah, And that that might make more sense is that this should this should be a top four, top three hole at Augusta National. But they've monkeyed with it too much. Distance gains have had their effect. I don't necessarily blame the club here, though. The execution of some of the recent work on the whole has been pretty questionable,
not just the idea but the execution. I think really the story here is that this hole can't be what it's supposed to be because the tea right now for the pros is in the wrong place.
I will say this, the worst moment in the round at Augusta National if you were playing the back tees, it's without a doubt. I mean, the worst moment spectating at Augusta National if you're following a group is the after the tenth green, Like do you do I walk back two hundred yards to the tee?
Like?
Do I walk up that hill? And I can only imagine what playing competitors like, what the what the participants feel, you know they they it's like you it's like a big uphill walk back to that tee and it's like versus just walking right off the member tee sitting there. It's just like kind of like a jarring thing.
Right. So yeah, and I don't have a so here, I'm identifying a problem that might not have a practical solution on the current footprint of the course. But I really think that tee should be belongs way more to the right, and obviously the walk from ten green to eleven t is a problem in itself, but I think the choice that you're making from that right tee that used to exist there when the tenth hole was different.
The choice that you're making is between trying to cut the corner and maybe get yourself a shorter approach into the green, or go to the left side of the corridor and find that nice little angle to try to run the ball up onto the green off of those mounds short right of the gay.
I think that's one of the issues with the actually you hit on the execution of the work, is that the mound in the don't work anymore, the mounds and like how the green's now like almost propped up from the right side. They I think this was an effort to make, you know. I think changes happen because they watch how players and like and I think this is a hard position to be in. There's a lot of advantages to having a tournament at a course every year,
Like there's fan familiarity, you know, understand infrastructure. I can only imagine the difficulty of not making you know, of making decisions and you watch players play and what had happened with this hole is that players just bailed out right took the chip up, So they've made the area
on the right side the bailout more difficult. But in doing this, they've like actually, like the original features of the hole don't work anymore because there's like a cut between the mounds that were originally on the short right side. And I think there is like a little bit of a romanticism here. No modern player is going to use these mounds to get the balls close to the hole like they might have when they were hitting like a
fairway wood into this green. But it is fairly relevant for like anwa it's very relevant for member play, it's very nice, and it's very relevant for just like the golf hole and how it functions. And again, this change makes it less of a strategic hole more of an execution hole. And I think if you were going to like chart this podcast where like aspects of the holes are, you know where we dock them, it's usually around that ground.
Yeah, absolutely, yes, the the green contouring has been changed so much that it's a little bit hard to remember what the original contouring was and what the rationale behind it was. And so would love to see them try to bring back small elements of that bit by bit. And also I don't like the pond. I just don't like that. I wish that it was still the creek. But I know that's unreasonable, but I just to you know, bring the creek back to fifteen, bring the creek back
to eleven. We don't need these ponds.
Even if they made it, if it was like halfway between the pond and the creek where it was like a creek inlet you know, it made it like appear a little like the creek got super wide.
You know, something connected to the landscape. Because the little pond is just you know, that's that it screams mid century golf architecture at this point, and we don't need it.
I think, like the hard thing, if you were going to like approach it, I think like the the question would be if we do this, if we make if we return to the green contours on the right side, then people are just going to start bailing out again. And we don't want that, like because now what they've done is like if you miss right in the tournament, if you bail out right of one of those backpins, your chip, like you have to hit a good chip, and you can easily chip it into the water. Yeah,
if you don't hit a good chip. And I think that's the thing that they wanted to do, was like, all right, let's put a second thought so that people just so people can will hit it into the water again.
And look, that makes sense because that gives tension back to the second shot, where you know, when the pros are hitting that second shot, they have to challenge the water a little bit. They need to, they're being forced to, and so when that ball is in the air, it's nerve wracking.
And so this is I think, like we just have to put out there. This is a lot to do with like modern hitting distances. It has to do with what Anthony Kim said this week at Live where he said, I spent twelve years away. I can't believe the drivers how you don't have to hit it in the center. I mean, this is one of the greatest quotes. And like it was like, you know, Anthony Kim's effectively better in a time machine.
And he thoughts and he didn't. He wasn't playing in the late nineties. Yeah, he was playing in the late as in early ties.
For those that didn't that might not have seen this. He basically he talked about at the end of his press conference how drivers how much they've changed, because he didn't play golf for ten years, right, and he's like, I can't believe how you don't have to hit it in the center anymore for it to go straight. Like it seems like you can hit it anywhere on the face and it goes just as far and just as straight.
Yeah.
So that was like effectively his quote. But like, this is part of the reason. These are all reactions to nothing happening. There was no equipment, there was a very lenient equipment regulation, and this is all A lot of these changes were forced because of this.
Yeah. And a key factor, a key determining factor for where a hole is appearing on my list is how affected it has been by distance gains. There are certain holes at Augusta National, for whatever combination of reasons, haven't been as affected. Those ones are more likely to be higher on the list.
All right, let's take a break from this rousing, rousing debate, Garrett. Let's talk about our new coffee partnership. It's with Goodwalk Coffee. We have some branded coffee. We've got the shotgun start blend which is a little bit of a darker blend and dark yeah, medium dark. And we've got the fried Egg Golf brand, which is a medium light blend medium light. Yeah,
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like I don't like my growth. I don't like the coffee shop in my town. I like actually loathe it. I've it's it's been a great thing because I like don't like it, so I never go, so I never waste any money there.
There you go.
But then it's like, well, I'm gonna have to go at the grocery store before I get my coffee. I I now with good Walk, I have coffee all the time, so I don't have to wait for it. It's it's delicious coffee. We picked them out ourselves, Uh, kind of tried a bunch of different blends, and we have a bunch of different beans. Uh, these are the two we picked. Wanted to have a little variety. Which one do you like?
I really like the fried Egg Blended because I like a little bit lighter but still on kind of the medium spectrum. And you know, I'm I'm pretty persnickety about my coffee. I've gotten to that point in my life. You know. I started off when early in my coffee life, I would kind of drink anything. But gradually, over the years, I've gotten more and more specific and discerning about what I'm looking for from coffee. I wanted to taste really
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I'm not sure whose turn it is. It's my point.
Oh we're on fourteen still. I have whole one.
You have hole one. Okay, this is our first disagreement.
I love the green. I think it's one of the best greens on the Gulf. Of course, I think that I think there just isn't a lot of space off the tea. I think those bunkers are huge. I mean they're a massive They are massive, and they just like if you turn on ninety seven and watch Tiger and look at the first hole, and turn on now and look at the first hole, It's like this is like I mean, it is like a departure. It is insane. It's a great opening hole in terms of like, again,
this is a great hole. I just I don't love like what's happened to it over the last you know, twenty thirty years.
You know, I think a lot of people who are enthusiastic about golf architecture would agree with you here. But I just really like this hole. I have it at number six, and you know, I think that the reason I like it now, not thinking about the hole's history, I'm sure that if I looked closely at what the original design was, I would see a bunch of elements
that I would want to bring back. I think the trees have come in really close, but as a first tee shot in a championship, I think it has a unique tension and a strategic weight to it that is really compelling. And the reason is that you have that big, intimidating bunker on the right. Is it too big? Is it too deep? It kind of looks ridiculous in a lot of ways, but it's there, and the only thing you're thinking off the tee is I need to avoid this.
But then the fair way tilts from right to left quickly into the trees on the left, and you look up at the green, which you can see perfectly from the tee, perfectly, just kind of hovering above the lip of the bunker and the crest of the hill. There you can see the green and another big bunker on the right side on the sorry on the left side of that green, and the fairway bunker and the green side bunker kind of line up visually, and so you see that kind of line on the hole and you're like,
that's the line of danger right there. How am I going to negotiate this? Well, I kind of got to challenge the big fairway bunker off the tee or else I'm not going to be able to hit driver on this hole. Because if I don't challenge the bunker and I hit driver, that tilt of the fairway is going to kick me into the trees on the left, and I'm going to have that huge green side bunker in front of me. I'm not going to be in a good situation. So you have to take it on a
little bit. And I just I love that it's you know, at a regular golf course, you know, gentle handshake concept opening hole. This is definitely not that. Then you get to the green and it's obviously just like a work of art and incredible. So that's why I like the first hole. But I reckon that there are many people who know more than I do about golf architecture who really don't like what has become.
I love the I love the green. I think the green is amazing. I think and I listen like I think, like The other feature of the hole is similar to eighteen, like where people drive it to where people really used to drive it to too. It's you're uncomfortable at the start of the round and you're hitting an iron from an upslope. Again, it's just not a not something that's not a nice spot to hit an iron from.
It's a really really hard hole.
Yeah, super hard. I think both of us are thirteenth. My thirteenth was sixteen and your thirteenth was eighteen. So we've already talked about both those.
My twelfth is seventeen, which we've already talked about. What's your twelfth?
My twelfth is the ninth, which we've already talked about.
Right, Okay, we're rocket We're getting through to the back nine. My eleventh place hole is two.
All right, I have five.
You have this really high? Okay, so I'll start. It's not that I don't like this hole too, yeah too, I have it as I have it.
I don't have it super high. I have an eighth.
Oh oh, I thought you said, okay.
I have I have the fifth hole of my eleven.
I got confused there, all right, So in any case.
Two listeners probably were confused.
Yeah, I was. Yeah, listeners, if you were confused, so was I. But I probably shouldn't have been.
So.
Number two I have is eleventh. They've just moved the tea back into the left it. I understand why they did it. Did it They did the same thing in the past couple of years to thirteen and fifteen, and restored some strategic value to the shots that you hit on those holes.
I don't think everybody should be able to hit it like way down the hill on too.
It's that's the thing, is that everybody's been getting down there and now it's with three woods because they can actually draw a three wood right. You need to hit a draw to get down the hill and skirt that big fairway bunker on the right.
I don't love that big paraoy bunker on the right.
No, it's it's like it's kind of an eyesore, but it's very visually intimidating. I mean, it's kind of like the one on one.
But I I again, I did this. I might move it back, like I might move it back a little when I think about that faarawoy bunker.
Yeah, and that fairway bunker is more of a factor this year because of where the tea is. They kind of shoved the tee over to the left, moved it back ten yards.
I saw the picture they posted on Instagram, and it does like I mean, it looks like you're just staring at the bunker.
And there might be a little bit of an optical illusion there with the camera. I'm not sure that the tee like points at the bunker like that picture on the master's Twitter account made it look like it does. But certainly the repositioning of the tee has brought the bunker more into and so you have to hit this big sweeping draw to get down the hill. Again. Get why they did it. They wanted to restore some value to hitting that great shot and earning the down slope
toward the green. But the result is a hole that just looks a touch absurd. Now I have this ranked fairly high, so I really like this hole. I think it's exciting, especially as the second hole in a championship where you've had a really hard first hole and now you've got an opportunity on the second hole, but you got to hit a proper golf shot.
One of the most fun shots on the course is the second shot in this hole.
If you're not just that big slope is a roller coaster. It's just pure fun.
So it's high on my list because it's honestly one of the most fun. One of the most fun shots on the hole is if you're going for that green into it's like you're trying to plot out exactly where you want it to go. You're running a ball in, which I think is like super rare in modern golf, is like a hole where you're really like chasing a ball into if the pins on one of the back areas like you're chasing the ball in I I just
love that. And then I just love the you turn the corner and it's this amazing reveal of you look down like you know, one you're up on high on the ridge, and two you turn down and you see the golf course just open up in front of your eyes, and I think you get to that central Yeah, I think there's like an intrinsic value of that that makes it, like I move it way up in my list because of that. It's like you're that second shot into the on that hole is kind of like you're welcome to
the to the real heart of the golf course. And I think I placed just a little bit of value on that, and I love also, you know, there's a lot of different greens at Augusta National. This is one of them that really sits down beautifully on the ground.
I was just gonna say that I like the variety that that introduces because so many of the greens that Augusta are built up in these monumental, spectacular, eye opening ways. Now you have a green on a fairly severe slope that just sits on it.
Well, so there's a lot of green, and so there's a lot of I think there's like a couple different types of greens at Augusta for the most part when they sit, when they're on flat land, they're all built up. So think one, eight, five, I know I'm forgetting a few. Fourteen is that's more into a ridge. But then they
have the holes that are set into bridges. Yes, and that you would think of, ten, you'd think of, you know, three, you'd think of I mean you could go down the list, and then you have other holes that are set on the ground, right and two would be one of them that's set on the ground. Eleven used to be more set on the ground.
Seven is built into a ridge.
Yeah, now two. Now eleven's more set up. I think that was our kind of talk about it. And then you have the holes like twelve thirteen that have the have the the creek as a hazard that run along them, and those are set on angles.
With the creek.
But two is one of the rare greens that's set on the ground. Kind of sits it is. That's another green that I really love sitting at. Again, use the chair policy. If you're going to a tournament round, use the chair policy. Go snag a chair. It's really fun place to watch golf. So that would be my eighth, my eleventh. My eleventh ranked hole is five.
Okay, your eleventh ranked hole is five. Okay. I have this tenth, so not that far apart. I think it's a brilliant hole.
I think this could be in my top four if the bunkers shifted left and one of the things in this could all be spectator flow. This again, these are the decisions you make when you host a tournament. You have to do things. And to me, the best part of this hole is the left side. There's this unbelievable land form. It kind of sits on the ridge right It sits on the ridge that and the spectator plays off.
The spectators effectively walk on the ridge line, and I always just think, like that's where you want to be hitting your second shot from to open up this unbelievable green. So to me, you know, I think probably a lot of this hole is partly spectator flow and and just the means of getting people around it. It's not a great hole to watch golf in general, like just because like you're kind of back there and this has is isolating.
You kind of get into no man's land when you go down to four green and then up through five. But like because you've got to get people. I think that this is part of the reason. But the best part of that hole the line of charm, the ideal line really, you know, Elister Mackenzie and Bobby Jones talked
about this being the road hole. This is the line that they go on, and it's in trees, yeah yeah, and the bunkers are pushed in and it pushes everybody like you're hitting to the bad angle, like there is you aren't allowed to get to where you need to get to to have like a really wide dynamic scoring range. I don't know if it would necessarily change. But my theory would be if you could get to the left side, you'd see a lot more birdies from there than from the right side.
Yeah, now you.
Now, trying to get to the left side might yield more doubles. And guess what, That's what makes golf really interesting when you have the high variants of scoring. People knowing I have to get over there if I need to, if I want to score, if I want to make a three.
I'm not sure I have anything to add to that. I think that's really good. I the green is obviously one of my favorite favorites on the course, and I think that's why I have it this high. You know, this is a hole with an interesting history. It's supposed to be their version of the road hole, but there's not really a road bunker situation here. There are some
preferred angles and some complexities with the green. I think initially Alistair mackenzie was sort of planning to put a bunker kind of in front of the green that would that would allow players to find an advantage along the left side of the hole. It's really a reversed road hole. So I don't know this is a hole I need to find out more about its history and and think about what they could reasonably do to restore some of
that strategy. But beautiful golf hole with an incredible green, and uh and and you know, obviously some some things to do.
So my tenth was the eleventh hole. What is your tenth?
The fifth hole, my ninth, we're ahead to nine. My ninth place hole is six.
I had this three.
Okay, you have Wow. I didn't expect this one. I'm excited to hear the explanation. Now. I love this green. I think it's I think it's great. I just can't quite get to putting it above the other eight holes on the rest of my list. That big shelf back right is really fantastic. And then what's underrated about the hole, I think is how cool and subtle the rest of the pin positions on the green are. There are these little ripples, little shelves all over the green and then
that big one back right. So every pin I'm kind of excited to watch. And that's why I like the hole.
You just explain why I put it three. I just think it's like a super fun shot, really great to watch. If you put this hole in place of sixteen, I think everybody would say that might be the best part three at Augusta National. I think just by the casualty of where it is in the routing hole six in the middle of the front nine, that it doesn't get the love appreciation and do I think this is just a magnificent golf hole. That's like, it's a pretty great
Part three. I can't think of like if you took the six hole and put it on like almost any other course, people will be like that six hole. Have you seen the six hole there? And this golf hole that nothing's really been monkeyed about that much.
And that's true. Well they just monkeyed a little bit. Yeah, this is a Sean Martin reporting that they they put some runoffs in back of that back tire which makes it even more difficult to reach.
So I haven't I haven't. I haven't seen the new changes. But to me, this hole is great and I just like kind of like I was think thinking about it, and I was just like, you know what, that's the one that I like. I like, I just love the golf shot. I love the hole.
So that's my that's it. That's the one you'll get behind more than most people might get behind six. Yeah, I'm I mean, I agree with your analysis. I just couldn't find a way to put it up that high. But you know, I guess if I if I were to, I mean, find a critique.
Here's the thing. We're at the point where they're all good, they're all great, They're all like my ninth is fifteen, right. I really love that hole. Yeah, I think it's an amazing hole. You want to talk about moments. I think it's like arguably been the most momentous hole and all gone in all of the tournaments over the last like fifteen twenty years. That's been the hole that mattered. Real quick, you said you had one critique of six.
The bunker looks weird. That's that's it. Like it used to be kind of like one of those big Mackenzie bunkers with with some real character to it, and now what does it look like? It kind of looks like a middle finger.
I guess, like a lot of the bunkers just look there. So that's it.
I mean, that's not specific to six. I also would like to see the changes play out and see whether players are attacking that back tier as much as they did. You have to, yeah, because the putt is so hard. But if you're threatened with if you're threatened more with going over the back, our player is going to back off it a little bit.
I think it's so hard to hit something long right, like that's yeah, that's the thing about it. It's so hard to hit for a right handed player to hit it long right. Sure it comes up short right, yeah, so it's a right target. Your everybody's aiming ten feet left, yeah to start, Like, I just don't think the balls are going to get there easily. So yeah, I like that's one of the things I love about the hole
in general is that back right flag. You stand on the team and you kind of think, like I kind of have to hit it there, and on so many par threes, it's just like, oh, we'll just bail.
You'll hedge, Yeah, like you have, but.
You could like you don't want to edge. It's a I And then like I think the other parts. So you have this like extraordinarily hard pin the back right on six, and then when it's up front, it's like super fun. It's like dynamic. Like I think about like the way a hole can play, that hole can play at super easy. One of the easiest holes on the course, and then it could be feasibly the hardest hole on the course just by moving the flag. So that's my really strong case for it.
Okay, for number three, all right, you said that fifteen is number nine for you, it's eight for me.
All right.
It's that high only because it's the hole that I most look forward to seeing in the final round of any Masters. And it's kind of incredible that that's the case, considering all the stuff that has kind of gone wrong with that hole, all the trees and places where they don't really belong. The sheer severity of the green, the pond in front, I mean, the severy the green is kind of what creates the tension of the hole. But I'm not sure that's that's really like what it should
be necessarily. In any case, the main problem right now with the hole is that the extreme narrowing of a corridor where the whole point of it originally is that it was enormously wide and you could kind of choose to go low or high. Now it's like you got to fit it between the trees in order to have a chance to go for it. Nonetheless, there's some magic about this hole where the definitive shot that a Master's champion has to face is that shot into the fifteenth green.
Yeah, I mean, I think the other thing that's great is the layup is not easy.
Right then downhill lie on the layup that.
Was one of the hardest shots on the golf course. Is what you lay up to.
And I was thinking when I was watching the hole during Anwhah, I was watching Bailey Shoemaker, who was making a big charge in the final round of Anwhah, and I thought that she was trending towards being the winner. But then Lotti Woad closed really hard and took it. But Bailey Shoemaker, I was watching her play this hole and she she got behind the trees on the left and I had a moment of disappointment, like, oh, I'm not going to see her try to go for the
screen in two. But then she chipped out and she was on a downhill lie with that short iron or wedge whatever she had into the green and I thought to myself, all that tension is there still there anywhere with this shot? And she hit a great shot and I thought it was one of the best shots of her final round that I saw, and it's because of the way that that lay up zone tilts toward the water. It's just so uncomfortable, and you feel it when a player stands over that that third shot if they lay up.
Yeah, so it's it's uh, I think you hit on everything. I'd like to see the bunker on the right removed too, because I think it's like actually like a bailout spot.
It was once a mound yea, so it was once the kind of opposite of what it is now.
All right, hole of the an eighth ranked hole. I minds too. So we've already talked about that. What's your eighth ranked hole?
Fifteen?
Fifteen? So we're on to seven? Uh seven, the seventh, our seventh best hole at Augusta, Nashville. What's yours?
Ten?
Okay? I have eight here?
You have eight there? Okay, let's talk about ten first. A specific thing that I love about this whole. I think people are pretty familiar with the drive and how downhill it is and how exciting that is.
Oh, are we on the seventh or we're on.
Number We're on the we're on the seventh place, okay hole, Yeah, and that's ten for me. So I really like the fairway contouring and how that works with the strategy of the hole. Obviously, there's the big speed slot that everybody knows about on the left, but in kind of the right center portion of the fairway and correct me here if my memory is kind of faulty. But there's like a little platform that gives you all level lie. Yeah, and if you find that, then that's it's not really good.
It's not completely level, yeah.
But it's more level than the rest of it, because one of the big difficulties on that whole is that you're probably hitting off of some kind of a weird lie to this green that's super propped up.
So this is my fourth yeah, and it's all because of that second shot, right, I don't think I mean, like, I don't know of many shots in all of golf that have as many variables and factors to them.
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. And what what makes it so cool is the combination of the visual intimidation and the actual functional contouring and hazards around that green. So it's propped up in the air, it's so intimidating to look at. You're looking at it, and you're looking at it and you're saying to yourself, like, I've got to hit a shot into that, Like, is that really going
to happen here? Then you've got the bunker on the right and the big drop off on the left, and so yeah, it's better to come in from the left side of the fairway. So it's better if you manage to get around the trees and come in, so you're you're hitting against the tilt of the green to stop
your ball a little bit. If you're coming in from the right, you know, just it's such an awkward shot from the right, but you know, even from the left, you've got that huge drop off and you've just got to hit such a precise shot in there.
Yeah. So this is my fourth I love this hole. You know, all of the holes at this point I love so mine for the seventh was whole eight.
Yeah, I think that this is a fantastic hole.
This was number four for me, all right, So we had those flipped.
I think the I think the strategy of this hole really still works, where if you challenge that bunker on the right, then you've got kind of a ticket and to try to reach the screen in two. Yeah.
Yeah, so it's awesome. The green's amazing. It's one of the coolest greens. I also think like one of the recipes of a great par five is like the layup. I think this is probably one of the most compelling layup holes where if you don't hit a good drive, if you're in the bunker, if you're in the if you're in the pine straw or the trees, like, you are just praying that you can get the ball up to the flat, and it's very hard to do that.
It's like extremely hard if you're in the bunker to get it up to the flat, like if you're in the trees, like you're just hoping for a little little space to get the ball to the flat because you get such a huge advantage if you can get it up there and get it into the wedge area so
it puts. This is not the most demanding T shot, but of all the holes in Augusta, like among on the range of holes, this is one that if you hit a great T shot, you can make a three because it's so cool the way you can run it in you're hitting into a bowl. If you don't hit a good T shot and you can't get over the hill, then you've got like a third shot that's blind from an upslope lie and it's like, all of a sudden, five is hard. It's not far gone conclusion that I'm
going to get out of here with five. So it's a great example again in a similar vein to nine, where it is not narrow. The corridor is not narrow. It's to the eye. It's not particular demanding, but the T shot is very demanding in the sense of if I don't hit a good one, I'm not it's going to be a very hard hole all of a sudden. On a hole that you feel like you stand on and you think you should score really well on.
It's one of the holes that's true test to the original spirit of the Mackenzie and Jones design in the sense that it has one bunker, and the bunker is in just the right place, and the rest of the hole is about contour and slid topography. Yeah, hills and and and then you know contour is both big and small over that hill, the blindness, the sight lines that that that obstructs and creates, and then the smaller scale
contouring around the green along the approach. It's all just it's it's kind of still there, and and the that the design in many ways is still intact there even though it's been rebuilt various times of the year over the years. I question whether there's there's kind of a little drop off at the front of the green. I'm
not sure that should be there. But all in all, this is a hole that is significantly closer to its original form than than many of the rest of the holes at Augusta National and it still works really well.
All right, what's your six?
Number six for me? Is the first hole?
Okay? Sure, we talked about that. Yeah, we talked about that.
We talked about the first hole. I'm not sure I mentioned it's number six. I hope I have that right. In any case, what about your six hole?
My six hole is the third hole?
Yeah, okay, so I have three as number two. All right.
I think this is a hole that's gotten better with technology. I think this is the thing. As CB McDonald had a great quote in one of his books, I forgot which book. It was in Scotland's Gift probably where he talked about, like you know, obviously he lived through changes in equipment, but he said, some holes get worse with technology, some holes get better. I think this hole has gotten better. It poses a super interesting question, you know, do you want to lay it back onto the ridge or drive
it down into the gully. I think it's insane that guys drive it down in the gullie. I mean, like I guess the numbers maybe have buried it out, but like I think that's an irrational decision. Yeah right there, because down there it just seems like impossible, Like it is, you're hitting them like a blind target with like a forty yard pitch with no green. But like they they
they believe that. That being said, like you know, augusta National, outside of the par threes, you are never afforded an opportunity to hit a shot from a dead flat lie
with a wedge. The third hole, if you lay back, affords you that exact situation, which is rare, and I just I'm like actually surprised more people don't exercise this decision because if you hit an iron or whatever these guys need to hit to that that ridge, you have the the you have one hundred yard wedge shot to a green at level and the green's amazing, it runs away super hard, which you would never be able to tell from TV because it sits up high on a ridge.
And something that doesn't come through on TV is how intricate the contouring is behind the green. I mean really all around the green, but behind the green there's a
lot going on. There are these little hummocks and drop offs and various things that can happen to you if you send your short second shot long and yeah, I mean I think that three is just a classic example of a short part four that works because of this kind of split fairway concept where you have the high middle right fairway near the bunkers and you have the low long left fairway, and that's the choice. It's a
pretty stark choice. It's really one or the other because of the the or you can go for the green. I mean, that's it. I mean, some guys can do that, but it's really really hard to make that shot work. Even if you can hit it that far, it's got to be the right, it's got to be really precise. And so that's why you see relatively few modern players reaching that green with driver, though we might see more
in the coming years, who knows. But that choice between high middle but a little bit farther away from the green and low left but the angle from there is just so uncomfortable, you know. I think it's a classic concept for a short part four that simply works, and that's why it has been so durable, great whole. Yeah, all right, So I had that as number two. You had that as maybe number six or five. My six
is one, My fifth is fourteen. I had that five too, Yeah, that five, okay, Yeah, I mean this is all about the green here.
I think the land's great too, because the land works against the green.
Yes, exactly what you're trying to.
Do with the green is completely counter to what the land's doing to you.
Right, and then the angle of the tea accentuates what the land is doing.
I love the t shot too, because like it's it's blind, right, you know, like you're sitting way down low, you just played thirteen and you're like, wait, now I gotta go up there.
Do you wish they still had that huge bunker cut into the upslope on that te shot?
I think, I mean I don't. I think it actually might be better without it.
Interesting, Yeah, there have been I mean.
The bunker where the bunker was, it seems like would be almost telling you to hit it the wrong place, because like you usually think with a bunker set into foreground, hit it right over it. But I think if it was there, you'd end up in the right rough with today's mowing lines. Right again, it's another hole that could just get a little wide.
Trees are pretty thick on both sides of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah there should be you should have Because of the difficulty, complexity, brilliance of the green. It feels like a hole where you should just have a bunch of different options. You should just have this field where you can kind of pick and choose where you want to attack it. Yeah, and so I think that's the idea behind the design of the hole. I do want to mention.
I mean the way that I sometimes talk about augusta nastional, I give the impression that I think everything about the older version of the course, or the original version of the course is better. I don't necessarily think that. I think that some changes have been good, and I think that eliminating that huge bunker that used to feature on the t shot might have actually been a pretty reasonable change. But you know, this whole, it all leads to this green.
It's one of those ultimate green backwards holes. Once you look at the green. Then the rest of the hole comes into focus and starts to make sense strategically. And it's just hard to describe this green like it's got these two huge humps in it. You know, it's basically a big false front, but you know it's it seems
like more than that. It's it's a little bit farther into the green and then all these little pockets and sections in the back and so so much is dependent on where the pin is, what you want to do off the tea and yeah, just fantastic hole, bunkerless.
Now, yeahs an awesome hole. Amazing hole. I really really love. When I played last year, my most disappointing moment was not hitting this fairway because I really wanted to hit the proach shot from the fairway, Like, honestly, like probably one of the shots that I most wanted to hit
at Augusta National. I ended up in the way and the trees, right, I hit an amazing shot to make to hit the green, like, I kind of had to hit it up through trees, and but like I didn't want I wanted to just hit a standard approach.
Would you have chipped out sideways? You know what it was like just for the experience.
D a couple of verdies, I mean actually almost made. I almost made a pot from down right to like where the Sunday pin was back left. I almost made that pot. So I was pretty happy about. Like the way the hole played out despite not hitting the fairway, very memorable. All right.
So that's five for both of us. What's four for you?
Four for me is whole ten? We already talked about it. What's your four hole?
Eight? We already talked about it. What is number three for you?
Six? We already talked about For me, it's thirteen. All right, this was one for me.
This hole has been brutalized. That's why it's not one for me.
All right, So let me let me make the case of why it was one for me.
Okay, I thought, it's the greatest hole in the world, right, I think it's this is the greatest designed hole in the world.
I thought about what hole do I want to play the most, over and over and over and over again. Which hole If I took any hole from August National and put it in my backyard, which one would I most want to have?
Which one with you?
Which? Yes, even in this current state, which one do I find the most endlessly compelling. Which one would would I garner the most joy from playing a thousand times and I came to this one. There is no hole that is interesting from t to green than this hole. Listen like they're like, I cannot believe. I'm gonna call bullshit. I cannot believe that the third freaking hole is in front of thirteen. For you, that is that is preposterous.
I'm sending a message. I'm sending a message. I know what you're doing, but it's absolutely sends. It's insane. No, I think we need to make a stand. We need to make a stand against the wasp wasted fair way on thirteen. It's an abomination how expensive it needs to go. This is the greatest golf hole in the world, and you're bringing the trees in so far that the drive is no longer the drive. The shot is no longer
the shot. You know, this is a it's an interesting hole to see pros try to negotiate, but it has become a little bit ridiculous. Off the tee now the second shot is intact, and it's such a great second shot, whether you're laying up or going for the green and Obviously, everybody knows that the way the land moves and the way the green is and the way the creek is,
all that is very familiar to everybody. I wish they would expand that green out to the left a bit, recapture a section of that green that used to exist. I think that would really enhance the hole overall. So that's another point about the hole that I'm not super happy with. But I mean, you could say that about any umber of other holes Augusta. But the main thing is turning that drive, which should be the ultimate kind of optionality drive at Augusta, and making it a draw execution.
So you have twelve number one?
Yes? I do?
I have a number two?
Yeah? What do you?
So?
You have twelve? Is number two? Okay? Perfect? So we've made we've made our argument about thirteen. You've registered your displeasure with me putting three above it, and listen, I understand that. Well, let me ask question make the decisions on thirteen.
Would you rather have in your backyard? Thirteen? I didn't use that you would you rather which hole would you rather play one hundred times three or thirteen?
I didn't use that criterion in determining.
I just want to I've crossed examining the witness right now, and I have a few questions.
You know what, I'm going to answer the backyard question. I wouldn't want to put thirteen in my back here because every time I'd look at the trees, it would make me sad and it would make me angry, and I wouldn't be able to be a good father to my children as a result. So that's that's all I have to say about that.
All I'm gonna say. If thirteen in its current state was what Alistair McKenzie designed, it'd be number one on your list.
Of course it would be. It would be no contest. It's the greatest hole in the worrule.
No.
I'm saying, what if if thirteen today was what was there in thirty four, if the trees were just there, if they didn't clear it out, if that hole was what it is today, Oh what they put in the ground in thirty four, Okay, it'd be your number one.
This is a counterfactual. This is this is invented history. I don't I don't. I don't accept the idea that they would decide to design the hole as it's currently. I'm just saying.
That this would be the case.
I mean, you can pretend that, but again counterfactual. That's that's not how history unfolded. Why don't we talk about twelve in a way. It's kind of number one by default. I had to think about this a little bit because I knew I wasn't gonna put thirteen number one. It wasn't a case where I went straight to twelve and said, that's clearly my number one. It was more like I had to go through a process of elimination and realize
that twelve was the one that was left. But my justification for it is that it's the greatest par three t shot to watch in a golf tournament in the world, bar none, by far. There's no contest. That's it.
Yeah, I think the angle of the green's amazing.
Angle of the green's amazing.
Shallowness of the greens amazing.
The wind is amazing. The way the whole environment works on that whole it is just incredible. And every time players come to that hole in the final round of the Masters, I can't believe how lucky I am to get to watch another group of players hit that shot into the green under such intense pressure. It's so wonderful, and a lot of it is intangible. You know, you could talk about the angle of the green and the placement of the bunker and all that kind of stuff,
but there is there. You know, a lot of this is mystique. A lot of this is history and memory, the stuff that we said we would keep out of this, But I think with the twelfth hole at Augusta, you can't keep that out of it. I think all of that affects the shot that players hit on that hole. And yeah, I just think there's nothing like it in the world of golf, and it works every single time. Yeah.
I Hey, you know why it's number two for me? Why so much of Augustin National is about the really cool greens. We didn't even talk about how cool thirteenth green is that. You know, I thought we were going to spend I thought we were going to spend ten minutes talking about why it's the greatest hole in the world and why it's the number one, number one on both our list, You're so sure enough. Instead we're talking about how how it preposterously was behind the third hole on your list.
You have six is number three? Yeah, should I have shot it about that, Yeah.
You could have.
You could have this is right behind thirteen. You have six.
Well, so anyways, twelve, if I'm going to make a critique, everything's about the cool green contours like thirteen green contour, amazing, amazing contour and it and it fits with the land right. If you're playing in from the left side, everything kind of helps you there. If you're playing in from the right, it's harder to use the bowl, you kind of and so anyways, twelve, it's really flat. Absolutely, you kind of get on the green and you're like, huh.
But you could argue that that's kind of a virtue of it.
It is a virtue.
It is.
It's variety, it's very it's variety in the round. But it's also just like you hit the green, it's enough as it is that what we have. You know, you can you can almost recreate the thought process that went behind making that green, unlike the rest of them making it basically dead flat. And I think the thought process was, look at what this hole is, we don't need to introduce any more elements to it.
Yeah, I mean it's number two on my list. Absolutely. I wanted to say why it wasn't number one. Yeah, absolutely, all right, just a key takeaway I had, sure, I think a lot of it's very hard to get to design par fives in the modern era this golf course. Uh, the par fives I had, Whole two was number eight, holl eight was number seven, Whole thirteen was number one, and whole fifteen was number nine. I would have a
hard time. I just I can't think of another course with as many great par fives like every par five is.
It's great as a set, yes, you know, because there's there's so much variety as to what makes each of those holes interesting, right because on two it's the land, it's all about that piece of land. On eight it's kind of like that. That the strategy, that one bunker and the green complex. So I could go through the part fives like this, but each each one stands out for a different reason.
It's stunning. It's a stunning set. I mean it goes with the par threes. The par threes are really good.
Obviously, are there any holes where we were discussing them and you thought to yourself, I wish I'd put this in a different place where I could be argued into putting it in a different place.
I think I'm going to turn the tables and ask you that question.
Do I have to apologize for putting three above thirteen? I mean, I'm gonna get ripped on you know, social media for this anyway. Yeah, I acknowledge that that it looks ridiculous. But guess why so does the drive on thirteen.
You know, when I look at it, I do think it's kind of crazy. I put eighteen seventeen. Yeah, but that's how the cookie crumbled. By first go listen.
This was not me.
I did not deliberate over this. This was a gut reaction. This is what the numbers feelings based.
Yeah, I could be, but we've had a discussion now, and we've had some time to reflect. I think it's interesting to look at and reflect ten. For me, I had it at number seven. That could be higher. Yeah, I think I feel like ten is better than one. I had one above it. Yeah, I can see that overall though fairly. I mean the spirit of our lists kind of similar, which is not surprising because you and
I believe in in kind of similar architectural principles. But but there were some similarities in the list.
We should have We should have had someone like Rhys Jones on to do this exercise.
Maybe maybe different school.
Maybe the nextideration is we get somebody that just has like completely different thoughts on golf courses and we put them, you know, in the in the rating show.
I could think of a few people who would do that pretty well.
All right, Garrett, thank you uh for coming on uh and being a part of this podcast. Big Matt rusis working hard this week.
Absolutely, he's a hard working man.
He was he's uh now now he's back to doing production. He was doing lots of shooting early in the week.
He produced this episode, right, he did what.
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