Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. Today we are joined by PGA tour star Luke Donald. Like to thank Luke for his gracious time. He stayed with us for about an hour and hope you guys enjoy this podcast with the former number one ranked player in the world.
The fried egg requires a different technique. What you need to do is actually square the face so they'll dig down underneath that bad lie and propel that ball right out onto the green.
Here's the thing. Playing out of a buried lion of bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice and clean lion of green side bunker.
You need to be aggressive on any show, weather it's sitting cleanly or it's Frida egg.
Well, we've all faced it, the dreaded Frida egg.
Not to be cleared though.
It's actually a pretty easy shot to hit.
You played a lot of golf in in Chicago. What are what are your favorite courses?
Wow, lots of lots of good ones in Chicago. I think it's a little bit of a hidden gem of a place for for golf courses. Some of my favorites Chicago Golf Club obviously very fortunate to have played there shore acres. You know, I practice and play when I'm up there in the summers at Conway Farms. I got a north Shore country club. I love Skokie. It's a great course. Well, I'm trying to think of some other ones.
But we were very fortunate when I was at college, you know, to play a rotation of golf courses and you know, some really good ones to some of those on that list. Nolwood's another good one. Yeah, a lot of good ones.
What was the Northwestern is an interesting school because it's you're very urban. I mean, you're pretty much like essentially like in a extension of Chicago. What was it like when you know, coming to America and going to school in Chicago and just like that transition?
Was it?
Well?
I actually think I was very fortunate to kind of land my feet in at Northwestern. I'd never heard of Northwestern growing up in England. You know, I think America is like a very different country to England in terms of you know, you're just not that aware of all the different colleges and college golf and college sports is just totally different to what it is in the UK. You know, I'd heard of Harvard and Stamford and Yale and kind of those big kind of places you hear
through TV and stuff. But I was recruited by Stamford. Tiger at the time was still on the team, and I thought, well, Tiger's great player. You know, I've heard of Stamford. This seems like a perfect fit. But ended up not getting there. And the coach there, Wally good when was a former Northwestern coach, so he said, you know, I feel bad you didn't get in the school. I think you should go visit Northwestern. You know, a good friend of mine, Pat Gas, has just become coach, and
I think you'd really like it. So I didn't have many options at this point, so so I went for a visit. I had some options, but place I'd never really heard of. But you know, having got the recommendation, I thought, yeah, let's go have us have a look. And I just absolutely loved the place. I fell in love with it straight away, you know, the golf courses.
Pat took me around just for my official visit. But I think I was very fortunate that I ended up in a big northern city like that, you know, instead of possibly ending up in a southern place like Clemson. Or Georgia Tech or Oklahoma State, you know, somewhere that where the culture very different to where I grew up in England. You know, I think Northwestern being right close to Chicago, you know, the city didn't seem very different
to where I grew up just outside of London. So I think in that way, for me, culturally, it wasn't too much of a big of a shock. I didn't really feel homesick. I just got straight into the the way of life over a Northwestern straight away. I really enjoyed it.
How was it? And you've spent a lot of, you know, time in Chicago after playing, Like, do you do you think there's benefit with time away from the game, like with the winter?
I think so. I think even you know, even just seeing in college, you know a lot of people say, well, how did you practice? How did you get better? You know, it's the courses of shut five months of the year pretty much up there in Chicago. Like, how were you still able to compete? And we were? It was compete. We were top twenty team in the nation when I was in college. We finished third at NC double A's one year, seventh another year. So we we were very
competitive and strong. I think actually having that time where you're literally I mean we would practice in the indoor the American football like indoor astra to area, you know, their practice area, so we could we could see shots go for about sixty yards, but then they're hit the net. So again I think just sometimes having that practice in that time where you're just thinking about fundamentals and you don't care where the ball's going, that has value, you know.
I think sometimes, you know, when you're practicing, it's important to do both of those. You know, if you have the ability to practice outside, at times when you're working on things, you shouldn't really worry about what the ball is, how the strike is. You're just trying to feel new movements and correct some fundamentals, and that's what you should be constrained on. Then you should switch your focus and obviously switch it, you know, shot making and not thinking
about fundamentals. But I think the time we had in Chicago, especially when I was in college, was important because I could really spend some time on some fundamentals that I wanted to work on, and I also forced you to kind of rest a little bit more, you know. I think even in my best years on tour in twenty eleven,
twenty twelve. Leading up to those years, I would have not touched a club for six weeks, seven, eight weeks possibly and then had a month to practice with more of an offseason then, and having that time off was really valuable.
Yeah, it kind of recharged mentally.
I mean, more other sport plays all year round. I mean, I can't even think of one another than golf.
It's fascinating too, because what you see with teams that often go deep in the playoffs as they struggle the next year because of all those added games, like, there's a definitely a compiling effect.
It's Tom Brady, right, Yeah, I agree with you though. Yes, I think rest recovery is really really important and it's hard to do that on the PGA tour now. I think you're seeing probably more injuries because of it.
That's Brady was talking. I heard somebody talking about how Brady's like arm strength, he focuses so much on technique that his arm strength is still you know, the same at forty two as it was when he was thirty, And it's because he's focused so much on the technique of throwing a football, which.
Is Yeah, it's this interesting. You know, he obviously has his methods. Everyone's quite aware of them. You know, tries to be pliable or something, you know, the TB twelve method. But I don't know. Whatever he's doing, it's working.
Yeah, that's scary think about how many might end up with. So at Northwestern you were an art and theory major, and.
Your theory and practice art theory of practice.
So you also in your downtime like to like to, you know, paint and different art stuff.
I haven't done it for quite a few years now, I think, since since kids came on the scene, it's kind of taken a back burner. But I certainly, you know, I practiced it. The last time I did anything art wise really was twenty twelve for the Ryder Cup when it was at Medina here in Chicago. Obviously they were they were remember at one point they did the painted
cows and they put them all around the city. So for the Ryder Cup, they decided to do these big painted golf balls, and I did one for the Ryder Cup and auctioned it off. I think. So that was the last time I did any kind of form of art. Now I just kind of watched my daughter's scribble and color and paint things. So yeah, I don't do too much of that now.
So an age long debate with golf is like is it art or is it science? And I know you're you're also very pretty analytical with with the game. Where do where do you kind of fall with with the art artistry?
And yeah, it's it's a good question. I think there has to be a mix of both. Really. I mean, you know, sometimes I hear you know, commentators or I see someone hit a great shot and they'll say, well, that that guy, what great feel he has, you know, that's he just you just can't teach that. And I'm like, I don't agree with that, you know, I don't agree at all with that. You know. I feel like having the understanding of, you know, what makes me a great
short game players. I understand the fundamentals very well, and I practice them and I and I've got them very very well. So I'm able to control my strike, my spin, I'm able to control my trajectory, you know, and through that, I'm able to create great feel. I'm able to hit great shots. And some people might call that, you know, oh he has great feel, But that's a lot of work. Over time. So that's a mixture of you know, that's
a lot of science in a way. You know, we we've we hear Bryson talking about this pro pro pro creation or no pro. I can't remember the word now, but you know it's it's understanding where everything is in space pretty much pro.
And I know what you're talking about.
I can't run during the word. But you know that that has worked over through lots and lots of work and practice. For someone who doesn't have the right fundamentals and has you know, hits one off the toe on, one off the heel, thins one one fat one, you know, obviously it's very hard for them to create consistency and
get that feel. But once you have those great fundamentals, then you can work on a little bit more of the the art side, the visualizing, the not thinking about the technique so much, you know, I think that's when it becomes more artistic. But you have to build that that that feel and base of fundamentals before you can kind of do that.
So being one of the you know, best players around the greens and on the greens for decades, how do you go about building the way you practice?
Yeah, I think first and foremost is you know, perfecting those fundamentals. You know, really understanding them, what what you think is correct fundamentals and really working hard on them and getting them to a point where you don't have to think about them. And once you can do that, then you can come up with great ways to practice,
you know, great drills. You know, occasionally I'm I'm I'm hitting balls from the same spot and I'm repeating, you know, doing lots of reps, and that's the time I'm kind of working on my fundamentals. I'm just trying to groove something in. But that has to be only a small part of your practice, I think, especially with a short game. Then you have to start incorporating what golf looks like on the golf course, and that's you know, every show
is different. So creating variability in your practice, creating a little bit of pressure in your practice, coming up with cool kind of drills to you know, bring about variability and pressure, I think is really important. And once you put that together with solid fundamentals, and that's that's only going to pay off and lead to good results.
A lot of Americans have, you know, some disdain for your exemplary match play record, you know, in terms of match play and stroke play, and you've had great success and both getting a number one in the world, and you know, in a stroke play heavy schedule, you obviously can play both both stroke play and match play. But what would you say, you know, why you have had such success in match play? Is there something about the format that.
Well? I think we as as someone who grew up in England, we we kind of grow up around match play. You know, played a lot of it as a junior, as a kid county golf, you know, playing for my country England, playing in Walker Cups, you know, playing Eisenhower's I mean Eisenhower's more stroke play. But you know, we're we're we're very yeah, exposed to it at a pretty early age, so we get used to kind of the the feel of match play because it is quite different.
And I think I've always loved the team aspect as well. You know, I think golf is tough sometimes when it comes to just being an individual sport. You and your caddy pretty much most of the time, and you're kind of out there on your own, very much like tennis. You know, I think once you get into that team atmosphere that becomes kind of fun. You're playing for something
a little bit more than yourself. You know. Obviously there's a sort of intricacies to match play, you know, when to give parts when not to, know when to attack when not to you know, but ultimately I still felt like my success in match play came from just being not forcing issues in a way, you know, making my opponent win holes, you know, not giving away holes. You know,
that consistency kind of I had in my game. I'd hit a lot of fair ways, I hit a lot of greens, you know, just kind of be there or thereabouts the whole time, and I'd just kind of wear my opponents down through consistency, just not letting them up mentally, almost like thinking, oh, hey, I got him on this hole, you know, coupled with some good short game, you know, making pots when you need to, I think is important
in match play too. You know, I'm guessing all of those led to, Yeah, a pretty decent record in match play.
It's it's fascinating match play. I think about like the different player styles where you have guys that you know, are artists around the greens, or you have your guys
that are kind of good at everything. And then you have the power guys that you know, if you're a middle of the road, shorter hitter, you're looking at the far up the fairway sixty yards at them, and you're hitting your second shot and they're Everybody puts pressure on each other in different ways and different points of the match. You know, on holes, was there specific or type of player that you you know, in a singles style that you disliked playing against more than another.
I never really thought about it that way, you know. I suppose players that matched up well to me, you know, that were similar to me. You know, I never really was too concerned with players that bombed it past me, although I did lose a couple singles matches to Hank Keeney in the Palmer Cup when I was younger, and that guy would hit at seventy yards past me at that point, I mean, it was just the matches were close.
But you know, I think when you hit it that far by someone, it's that the it does favor in the longer hited player hands. But I suppose just playing, you know, you know, I remember twenty ten Ryder Cup. I was at Celtic Manor. I got paired up against Jim Furick in the singles, and you know, that's that I thought was going to be a tricky one, just because we're such similar games. You know, we're always in the hole, we're grinders, We're going to get up and down.
You never really think, oh, he's not going to get this one up and down, or he's not going to make this pop. You know, those are the kind of matches that I probably step up and thought that this was going to be a top match.
Yeah, it's it's I think that's one of the fascinating things about match plays. It makes it more like the NBA, where you have like Michael Jordan, you know, a shooting guard, and you know, then you have like your power player. It might be like a a Karl Malone. You know. It brings to forefront more of the guy's skills and
shows the contrasts of how they get it done. It's like you know, watching something I always think about is like Kevin nah has actually a really good record in like the WGC match play, and I think it's because he just plays a little different than everybody gets, you know, and the way he gets around the golf courses, and.
I think mentally, especially in today's you know power game that it is that we that we have, you know, over eighteen holes, you just feel like anybody's got a chance, you know, against anybody. So it's not it's not really like some of the other sports where just the favorites have a chance. You know, in tennis, the top four seeds usually meet in the in the semi finals. In golf, you know, our eighteen holes, anyone can beat anyone. I mean, and I think mentally for someone like a Kevin Nah
or someone that that's that's encouraging. Yeah.
So you've you've been playing professional golf over the last you know, two decades now, how do you think the game on tours has changed in that time?
Well, I think it's changed a lot. I think we can look at all kinds of different aspects of the game, fitness, golf equipment, golf course is you know, it really has changed a lot. I think we're obviously seeing golf has hit the ball a lot further now than when I started in two thousand and two. You know, it feels like when I started, course management was somewhat important. It's a little bit thrown out the window these days. You know.
I think that the aim on most holes is to get it as close as to the hole as you can off the tee and go from there. You know, with people using sixty four degree wedges, it doesn't. We have so much loft now and the knowledge as well of how to hit the ball. Further that, the game has really changed a lot, and it's become a little bit tougher for guys like me, but there's still ways.
Being a shorter hitter. What courses on tour do you feel like, you know, and you tee it up at this course, I've got like a great chance this week. And are there courses where you're like, I got to play absolutely perfect to have a chance.
Well, yeah, there are definitely courses that I like to
pick and choose, you know. I mean, Hilton Head would probably be a great example, which was Hilton Edge Actually is a funny one because I when I first played there on tour, I didn't play very well there, I don't know, for whatever reason, missed a bunch of cuts, maybe finished top fifty once or twice, And after about four or five years, I thought I'm gonna not bother going back here for a few years at least, so I gave it a break and then suddenly I came
back and you know, for a course that should have sued me, I'd done terribly around it. So I came back and then started to perform form better because you know, it's the kuype of course which takes driver out of a lot of the longer hitters' hands. It's so narrow, a lot of dog legs, you know, very small greens.
You know, reasonably flat surfaces, but you know tiny greens that you know, if you're reasonably proficient around the greens, I think you have a good opportunity to get the ball up and down and you're going to be left with a lot of those tricky six seven footers for pars at times. And it's a frustrating course too. You can hit great shots and be blocked out and you know, I think you have a good shot into a green. It catches a tree limb and kicks thirty yards right,
So it demands a lot of patients. It doesn't need too much length, and you need to be pretty good around the greens. It's kind of one of those frustrating courses. So you know, that's a kind of course I tend to be drawn towards there's less and less of them on tour these days. But yeah, I think I certainly have to be wise with the courses I choose.
What do you think changed from when you took a break and came back and all of a sudden, I've had unbelievable success. I think you got was it four or five runner ups?
There? I've had five runners up and three thirds, eight top threes without a win. Unfortunately, I seemed to get picked by someone charging through the field on Sunday a few times. But what has changed? I just think, yeah, I needed that break away from it for a while. You know, for some reason it wasn't it wasn't working. I couldn't visually see the shots, and some reason something switched and I was able to manage my way around
That course is a little bit better. I think my short game putting did improve, which helps because it is of course you're not going to hit as many greens as usual. So you know, I was a good short game player and a good putter through two thousand and six, but I got a lot better from two thousand and nine onwards. You know, after I had that, I had
a wrist surgery in two thousand and eight. I really spent a lot of time practicing one hundred yards in and that was you know, that was a lot of the key to me getting to number one in the world. So I think that that improved too.
So so the injury and the time not being able to safe go full boor at it was like a huge had a huge impact on your career. The time away.
Yeah, It's funny how sometimes you know, what you think at the time is going to be one of the biggest negatives turns out to be one of the biggest positives. You know, when obviously you have an injury like that, an injury that had to be surgically repaired. You know, there's all kinds of things that go through your mind. You know, is this the end? Am I going to be able to hit pause again? Am I ever going to be the same? But it kind of allowed me, you know, the way the rehabir was, I had to
really start with putting for a couple of weeks. Then I could hit some very light chips, but at the same time I was still putting, you know, I was putting two three hours a day, and then I went and now did some small pitches, small chips to you know,
getting up to wedges. It was a very slow process, but it gave me about a two month window where I was really focused on putting, especially and short game, and I think it allowed me, like going back to that time, it allowed me some time to really work on fundamentals, to get in the great reps and build up confidence in that area. And yeah, I mean for four or five years, I don't think anyone was better than me from one hundred and twenty yards and in Yeah, it's a good spot.
That's a good spot to be really good at.
You know, you've got to pick your battles, you know. And I think the Risks breakdown was you know, me trying to keep up with some of the guys, you know, trying to find some extra lanes, trying to hit it harder. I've already always had a little bit of a risty swing. I never really use my body to turn, so you know, when that happened, it was just a good reminder, like, let's just play what you're good at. You know, you're not gonna it's pointless trying to chase too much distance.
You're just going to injure yourself again, So concentrate on what you can control and and be good at that.
Yeah, that was a thing that a lot of players went through with with you know, kind of the rise of Tiger, the lengthening of the courses. You know, Martin Kaimer famously was trying to learn to draw the ball for Augusta and then you know when he went back to hitting the fade, he all of a sudden won a bunch more again. And it's it's a fascinating thing with you coming back from a back. You know, you're dealing with a back injury. Now, is it different because
of the back? Is it harder to do like long sessions putting and stuff like that.
Well, yeah, I'm obviously a little bit older than I was when I when I injured my wrist, which is two thousand and eight. But so I've got time is going against me a little bit. But we're fortunate in this game. You know, I can play too on sixty really on the Champions Store if I want to. What's been Langer? He might be sixty now already and still crushing out there. But you know, I'm trying to see this back injury as you know, something similar to the
wrist injury. You know, it doesn't feel very good at the time, you know, and you're being out and it's frustrating, but hopefully it's a positive. Again. It's given me some time to look at you know, why did this happen? You know, there's obviously some things going on in my swing that we're causing a little bit of this inflammation in my back, and so, you know, I think I'm improving not only my setup, my fundamentals in my golf swing, but hopefully this will lead to more consistency in my
long game. And I mean I've got to be a little bit careful in terms of reps and smashing balls, but I've been that way for quite a few years now since having kids. I'm more efficient with my practice. Still practice hard, but I practice smart and I'm not out there, you know, eight hours a day every day. You know, I can do a good session in four hours and feel like I have done enough work to be to be one of the best players out there.
So it's again trying to turn a positive into a negative into a positive.
No, that's I think that I think it gives you. I feel like when you're in the hole and you're you're looking at the same problem day in, day out, every day and you're going and you know, grinding. Like for me, I'm always like you know, in there thinking about golf and writing and thinking about other stuff. Is like when you take days off or like even just a day off is so valuable because you come back
with a completely refreshed perspective. But then you know, I remember, I went on our honeymoon and I came back after like a you know, ten day break, and like, I was so refreshed, and I had a whole new perspective on so many of the same problems I was looking at every day and day out. Like you, it allows you time away to to really think and wash away like the conclusions you have in your head from looking at it through the same lens.
I totally agree. I think that's why weekends are so important for the guy that works, you know, Monday to Friday. You know, they need that break, that break, that refresh feeling so they can tackle the week in front of them. But I've even actually, in some of my off off time been doing some puzzles, and again I think it's good for the brain, and you know, a thousand piece puzzles and I'll work on them but if I'm over it for like an hour looking at it something you
just can't see anything. You step away for an hour, come back and you're like, oh, that was why didn't I see that piece of that piece of that piece, that piece goes there. It's amazing how you can become stale by you know, just being in doing something over and over again without that that kind of break.
Yeah, because you're just you're doing the same thing. It's like you're becoming more of a robot instead of a you know, what makes humans so special. It's like the ability to you know, think and adapt and you know that's it's a fascinating.
Remember you only got to get a little bit better every day, so you know, you're not trying to, you know, take major steps. I think some people, you know again, if you can just get tiny little bit better every day, then that over time, that's going to lead to something great.
It's somebody said to me once I was when I was a high school golfer, like, you know, they're these great players in the area. It's like, yeah, they said to me, And it didn't make any sense then, but it's like, well, like the hard thing for him is going to be how does he get better you know now that he's here, because like once you're really great, a really great golfer. I think this is what the
you know, a lot of you know, fifteen handicaps. Going from fifteen to ten is tough, but going from you know, I imagine seventieth in the world to twenty fifth is even harder. You know, like trying to pick up those small, little percentage points that make the biggest difference.
Yeah, but I think you have to think about it that way if you if you start, you know, you you've got to break break things down into little goals that you feel like can be accomplished. You know, if something seems too big, then just break it down into little things. And I think of a time you accomplish those little things and that will lead to that bigger thing. It's just it's all about you know, we hear the
word process and stuff like that. I think it's easy to get ahead of ourselves, but if you do it that way, I think it becomes a lot easier.
So with you know, you have regular events the weekend week out, PGA tour, grind, and then everybody does a little bit different. For majors, how would you say your preparation over your career for majors has been different. Does it differ for different venues, Does it differ for different majors or is it just the same.
I think at times it differed. You know, I tried lots of different scenarios. Obviously it was never successful up until this point to get the right scenario. Been up there quite a few times and had some good chances.
But you know, I think Augusta was always the one that you tried, could prepare a little bit easier, you know, I'd go up there quite a bit before and practice and play, and even though that course wasn't specific, sued towards my game, you know, since some of the changes in two thousand and four or five, that was the course I probably spent the most time playing before the
actual tournament. I think one because it was special and it's very cool, and you never know how many times you're going to have that opportunity to go practice if you're eligible to be in that field. But the other majors, yeah, I tried playing before the week before, I tried taking weeks off before. I just think sometimes it's you're going to be your time, and you just find that grooving golf and sometimes it's it's not going to work out.
But I never found like the quine of kind of the right, yeah, the right what I needed to do to be peaking at that major those majors. I came close a few times, but that was tough. Yeah, what was it?
What was your favorite major venue that you've played in to date?
I would probably go back to There's a few of them. Obviously, I had a pretty good chance at Marion at the US Open, played with Justin Rose in the final group there when he went on to win. You I enjoyed that kind of cool, quirky course. I love the Open Championship, obviously, being being from England. Again, I go back to ones I've had chances. I suppose Turnbree had a good chance for years. Stuart sinq One absolutely love that golf course.
I always loved playing at Saint Andrews, you know, just because of the feel, the history and what St Andrews is. That was That was the course I never really enjoyed the first few times I played, I just didn't quite understand it. I can open open field with bumps and humps, and then the more I played it, the more, the conditions changed minutely and it just changed the course completely.
And you know how important angles were to some of the pins, and you know all all those kind of cool architectural features that Saint Andrew's you know, just kind of had that that was always a special place for me to play.
Yeah, that's I mean, you hear it with so many people as like the first time around, they just don't even have a clue what's going on.
And then do you do you.
Have like a light bulb moment of like when you were like, oh, oh this is this is it?
Well, just certain holes, you know, even you think of for me, especially like that that fourth hole. You know, I wasn't if the wind was anywhere in my face, I couldn't carry that mound, you know, which was that's the easy way to go, just go down the left hand side. But you know, if that pin is tucked over on the left hand side, you've got no angle to hit it towards those pins. So you have to take it down that right hand side, that narrow little place.
It's a couple of bunkers waiting for you to give yourself the great angle. And you know, I think it's easy to kind of just blow it to the wide part of the hair fair way. But you know, having creating that perfect angle to to some of those left pins is it's pretty cool, you know, And you have that's that's when you have to step up and hit great shots around s and Andrews.
I know, I know you have some interest in golf course architecture. Is that something that you're looking to get into more as as you you know, as.
You Yeah, I would, I would, I would love to. I've done well. I've done a little bit of work with Dave's Incolan who worked, you know a long time with Corn Crane Ure. He was their lead shaper for I think fourteen years, and he's doing some work on his own and we're we're looking at some projects to do down the road. Even you know, you know, we've even talked to Canal Shaws, the little place in Chicago about maybe doing something there. So that would be fun.
But yeah, I love I love I love architecture. I've you know, I've read some of the books. I love Corn Crenchaw, I love the dope stuff. Yeah, golf course for me is you know, isn't necessarily about score two, which I think some architects kind of they're very score related, which you know, obviously is great if you're designing a tour course, I guess. But you know what about their the ninety eight percent of the golfers that are playing, you know, it's just going to be a tough challenge
for them. But yeah, for me, you know, using the land, you know, good aesthetics, good good fun, interest in greens, you know, those kind of things, kind of the types of architecture that I enjoy.
It's it's fascinating. I think about the core Crunch Shaw stuff, and obviously, like Trinity Forrest was the first time outside of Capellua where like core Crunch Shaw Dope have really had a course that the world's best have played on. The modern best architects, you know, golf courses, I guess Gil Hansen Rio was another example. But from your perspective, when you go play one of these types of golf courses, yeah, is it is it necessarily easier?
It might be?
Is it easier to score or is it you know it does it present different challenges than your standard TPC course.
I haven't played Trinity Forest, but certainly played some good core Crunch or course is one of my favorite would be you know, Friar's heead Long Island. You know, when I played that, I was just blown away how how much fun it was to play. You know, a lot a lot of people I always get the question, what courses? What's your favorite course to play? And a lot of them really aren't tour courses. You know. Tour courses are courses you might play well and shoot sixty six round.
If you struggle, you're going to shoot seventy six. You know, it's a little bit more score related, whereas you know courses I love to play. Yeah, it's quite easy to shoot sixty two now and again I think score isn't really important though, But I could also walk off shooting seventy two and not played well and thought I love
this course. Yeah you know this. I just had so much fun playing it, you know, fun green complexes, you know again, strategy off the team making you think, you know, even most of these places now I have quite wie fairlies, but there's an art to it. You know, you really have to step up on the tea and where's the pin? Where am I going to hit this? You know, whereas tour courses have a little bit less of that these days.
So I'm curious is if you took par like the concept of you know, seventy two being par and he went somewhere like you know where you describe where it's say it was, just if you threw par out the window, how do you think the you know, if you played a professional tournament at one of these courses, would there be would it be much different in terms of like you know, the leaderboard, like would you see more varied styles and such?
Well, I think that the type of course still has that overriding fact of you know, who's who's going to do well, who's not going to do well? But certainly, mentally, if you take par out the equation, I think it just does change it. We talked about this a little bit earlier about how Pebble Beach that one year they turned the second hole from a part five to a part four, and when it was a part four, the
scoring averages was higher. So mentally, I think without any relevance to par, yeah, would that be easier probably?
I guess yeah. And if they just weren't concerned with guys shooting sixty two's or fifty eight or and they just went to courses that were different, you know, because that's I guess from me being I watched a ton of tour golf, but I also have interest in architecture. Is like, I think there's like there isn't a ton of stylistic difference between a lot of the golf courses on tour, and I think like Harbortown's a perfect example that is stylistically very different than almost every other course.
I think Trinity four would be another one that's stylistically different, But then you know it's sandwiched and you know a lot of courses that are very similar. Do you think like if you scored apart, is you know it restrains the options of tournament venues?
Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I haven't really thought about this and the best way to answer that, but certainly have a variability is nice.
You know.
I think even Riviera would probably be on that list too. It's like it's of course you play and you think this is a little different to most weeks we play, just has some classic features, some quirkiness, and you know it certainly if people asking me what one of my favorite courses on tour, that would be one of them. At the top of them.
What's fascinating about Riviera is that I think Charles Howell is the only player and I have this written down somewhere, I looked it up, but he was the only player younger than twenty eight to win there. In the like the last like sixteen years, all the winners have been twenty eight or over, which is to me utterly fascinating.
Yeah. I think again it's one of those classic courses that's gonna wear on you. I think with some patience, real understanding of where to miss it, where not to again, it brings in a little bit more strategy and thought. There's so many cool features. The bunker in the middle of the green on the sick, the split fairway on a you know, obviously not very long path. He's the tenth or it's obviously talked about as one of the greatest risk of all path fours in the world. So yeah,
there's a lot strategy that course. And I think when you when you add a little bit of strategy, guys who've had experience, guys who understand that sometimes backing off is more valuable than just going full tilt, and I think over four rounds, you're going to give them the advantage, and that's probably why older guys, uh more experienced guys tend to do well Riviera.
Yeah, because Riviera, that seems that's a course we're positioning in being you know, with the with the way the greens are and the deep bunkers being fifty yards away, Is it always advantageous versus you know, being one hundred and twenty in the right spot?
Right? I think so a little bit to do with the grass. The cuku is not a grass you can really run up, you know, you know, a fifty yard shot, those that the Polana greens you know, have quite a firm first bounce usually unless it's rained a lot. So that fifty yard shot with a like four or five yard you know, on the green with not much green to work, but it's impossible to run it through that cocuya. So you have to be very precise. So you know,
those kind of things. Yeah, Like you know, just getting it close to a part five and too, it's maybe not always advantageous. Maybe laying back having that one hundred yard shot, the fuller shot creates some spin. Maybe that's a little bit of an easier and a better way to play that place.
With growing up in in England, you obviously were exposed to a lot of great golf early at a young age. Like, what, what were your favorite places over there?
Yeah, I grew up near London, so got to play quite a few of the Heathland courses, you know, Sunningdale, the Parkshire. I've never played the Swindley far but you know, we've obviously played some also some golf up kind of you know, the we would play. I've played Hillside, I've played more Town, I've played I'm trying to think of some of the other great ones. Obviously I played a lot in Scotland and Ireland, but I'm trying to think
of good ones in England. You know, obviously live them and there was a bunch of those great ones around that Liverpool area that that I got to play, but a lot of really good ones in in London too. Yeah.
What what players growing up did you kind of idolize the most? From like a you know, professional standpoint.
You grew up loving Fouder and Sevy were my two idols, probably for very different reasons. You know, I think I was in awe Fouder and his work ethic and how meticulous he was and just the small details he'd went to. You just felt like the guy was on the range, you know, from morning till dusk. You know Sev obviously for his short game, his his flare, his ability to get the ball up and down from anywhere. I think
that influenced me certainly. Very two different, very different personalities, but those were the two guys that for very different reasons. What kind of idols in my eyes?
Your your bunker player. Could you know you could go toe to toe with Seva? That would be would be a fun like I always wonder why golf doesn't have like a skills challenge.
I'd still give it to Sev. I mean, he never even had a sixty degree where he didn't even know what that was, so he could work magic with I think his highest wage was probably fifty six maybe degrees.
So what do you think would happen if they took away wedges above fifty six degrees? This just popped into my head.
Yeah, I think you would have to understand fundamentals a little bit better. You know, the huge amount of bounce sometimes now we have on wedges that help us, you know, around the greens try to minimize some of it, and they were the grooves and on the like. But they certainly haven't ever thought about minimizing loft. But that might be an interesting one, I mean learning, you know, suddenly it feels like nowadays you can pretty much get to
any pin unless the greens are quite undulating. But most greens we still play on tour, you know, modest and somewhat flat. Green speeds are faster take it. But you know that that again, the amount of people who have sixty degree and sixty four degree with wedges, you know, pretty much you short side yourself, you can still give yourself a good chance of getting the ball up and down. Imagine if you only had a fifty six, that's becomes
a little bit more difficult. You have to really learn how to use that wedge well to create the correct spin to get one of those short side shots close.
It'd be interesting. I always, you know, I know that'll never probably happen. I've always wanted to see, like, you know, like a seven or four or five club event. You know, you know, if you be so fascinating to see the shot making, I think that's that's one of the things I wish, is like seeing all the creativity and all the shots that you know, you guys can hit would
be the most fascinating aspect of it. But with the modern equipment, it doesn't seem you don't have to hit all the shots all the time.
No again, strategy, I believe you know, it is so much less than it was when I first came out and tour. You know, course managements, it's not really there's not too much of it these days. But yeah, five club Challenge tournament, that could be interesting. I think people would still put the driver in. I think, yeah, I got it.
So let's kind of wrap some stuff up here and a few quick quick hits, you know. So, like, what's been the most memorable moment, Like, what's the moment you think about most going back to your career at this point.
It probably have to be my my playoff win over Lee West when it went worth, just because it got me to number one. It was at the place just down the road from where I grew up. I had lots of family and friends there. I think it was
a fun night of celebrations. That was That was quite I've knocked on the door for a couple of months leading up to that, having good chances to get to number one, and couldn't quite quite do it, and so it was obviously meant to be to to wait to wait my time until a place like Wentworth where very close to where I grew up.
Yeah, I saw it like Harvardtown. You lost in the playoff to snedd o certain number one. Then if you'd got it's it's a yeah, that's it.
I remember.
I actually remember that you hit a wedge real close on.
Yeah, playoff Hall hitting pretty close and west west he hit one and got a lot of spin and just just crept into the water there. But yeah, thankful for that victory.
Who's who's the player that like, best player to hang out have like a pint worth.
Mm hmm key one that. Yeah, lots of funny guys. Obviously made lots of good friends during Ryder Cups. You know, we had a we had a group group WhatsApp chat going for the Ryder Cup, which was kind of fun. And you get to even just through that experience, you know, different personalities. Tommy Fleetwood has a great sense of humor. Yeah, I've obviously been good friends with Sergio. He's not much of a drinker, so I wouldn't choose him. I don't
know it's a good one. I don't know. I had a few good times over the years though, but I don't think of anyone specific.
What was the best Ryder Cup memory.
Best shot I ever hit? Probably the Rider Cup was my seven aa madina against Tiger and Stricker in the four Walls. You know, just at the time we were
we were we were getting beaten pretty handily. I mean we were down ten to four, I think at the time, and you know, obviously I think what what it meant in the grand scheme of things, and obviously we had the big comeback on Sunday, but winning that point and then Poulter and Macroori winning their point to get to ten six to even give us a sniff I think, And obviously against one of the greatest players of all time, he just stuffed it into five feet and seventeen. He
just burdied the hole before sixteen. And the pressure was all on us. We were only worn up, having been four up at the turn. You know, it was all going away. It looked like here goes, We're gonna maybe lose his point and maybe get it half. And then suddenly I was able to come up with with the goods hit it inside him. We matched birdies and then half the last hole to win the points. So that would probably be my best shot.
What's the one where the tournament that you didn't get it done or you know, that sticks with you the most?
Mm Probably that US Open with justin you know, I think it's funny that was that was a positive time that probably turned into a negative. And I'll explain it because you know, obviously positive because I had a great chance to win that US Open. I walked off Sunday having watched Rose do his thing, you know, pure it the whole way around. I mean we saw that four iron on the last and nearly went in the hole.
I mean every shot was just down the middle. And I walked away thinking, man, my game doesn't feel like that, especially off the tee, and I tried to I tried to change a few things. I actually went away from Pat Oss. I went to a different coach for a year, went to Chuck Cook, and you know, obviously I haven't really been as good since that time. I think, you know, obviously went back to Pat. But it took some unraveling to you know, the swing that I tried to go
to wasn't really working. I'm not taking anything from Chuck and what he does, but it wasn't right for me, And you know, looking back, I wish I'd just stuck to what I knew I was good at. It was funny. It was a time where I had a great chance to win a major and I walked away thinking I needed to change things. And it's just it's a crazy the way we think. Yeah, but you know, obviously led to some kind of poor golf, and yeah, I wish I'd had that back. You know, I wish I'd either
played a bit better or even played really worse. I don't know, but yeah, maybe even not having been paired with with Rosie would have changed, you know, the next few years of my life. Who knows. But it's hard to have hindsight with that because it's, well, it was fascinating.
Is that if you flipped the situation and you win, Rose probably would have gone God, I got.
It, and I would have been playing like he has lost.
Years in the crazy. The crazy stuff about it is like as a golfer, I feel like you're always envious of what someone else has, and they're always looking at you and are enviously.
You never realize that part though, do you.
And that's the hardest thing to think about, and I never really thought about it until what you just said.
Yeah, yeah, you always want something that somebody else has and when really you should be just concentrating. I think that when I got to number one, that was what my biggest skill was. I knew what I was good at, and I just concentrate on that. I didn't care that I didn't hit it as far as everyone or whatever. I knew that if I could do this as well as I needed to be, then I could be as good as I wanted to be, really, you know. And yeah,
even though there was strokes gained. I think that year twenty eleven, I was around even strokes gained off the tea. But I knew that I needed to gain practically two strokes around on average to be number one in the world, and I had to do it through my strengths.
So that that time you were just all, you know, focused on how do I control?
Yeah, yeah, not worrying what other people were good at, worrying what I was good at my skill set.
Yeah, that's a yeah, that's a good point. It's like you get wrapped up you're always looking at what other people are doing in any industry. You know, if you're if you're a sales guy, you know you're looking at what the guy down the down the road is doing. That's you know, maybe beat you two months in a row is and you're like, oh, maybe I'll try and do that. But I think with like sales, for example, like what makes you unique as you? You know, and you can't try and be somebody else?
Why be ever anyone else? Everyone else is taken. Someone told me just be you. It's a good quote.
So uh, that's it. That's what I got. I really appreciate you coming on, I think sure and taking the time and given more than well.
Enjoyed your podcasts and everything you're doing. So good luck with it.
Yeah, when are the fans going to see your next.
I'll be out soon either Honda or Tampa hopefully. So making some good progress, building some great resiliency in my back, you know, just being taking it quite easy. I want to make sure I get it right. But looking forward to a busy summer hopefully. Yeah, Harbortown, there we go. Let's get that win.
I know
Exactly