Kyle Franz - Part 1

newsletter that goes out every Monday Wednesday Friday. We write a lot about golf course architecture in it, especially on Fridays. We did this new deep dive portion, so if you haven't signed up for the newsletter, please sign up, and without further ado, here is Kyle Franz.

Kyle's most famous work has been his restoration of Midpines down in the Pinehurst area, and he's also worked with many of the top architects and is currently consulting on restorations of many top Golden Age golf courses, including Seth Rayner, a couple of ross courses, and a few styles Van Cleek courses up in the Northeast. Kyle, welcome on.

the re Olympics course. A lot of really fun and interesting courses along the way, both from a restoration standpoint and new built. So it's a very exciting, very exciting run for somebody who grew up wanted to go in the golf course design business, and unfortunately everything is worked out thus far.

Uh in in modern terms anyway, it was one of my first jobs was putting on couplers and fairways and in the middle of the night and uh, but it gave me an appreciation for you know, just good solid routing and uh and fun quirky architecture on on wild, weird ground and uh. And this was in western Oregon, you know, a place where you wudn't expect to find sort of an oddity, uh of from a land standpoint, and uh, you know, I just kind of went with

it from there. You know, I really uh, I really loved playing golf, and I played like four hundred and seventy eight straight days once actually, and uh and just became, you know, interested in architecture. I think got a lot of people become interested in architecture. I think probably the difference is I really generally wanted to write from the

very beginning. You know, I would get a hold of uh you know, uh old magazine articles, the top one hundred rankings, uh, you know, major championship previews, and I just pour over all the information went through Tom Doak's books at an early age, and then kind of got ahold of a lot of the old classics and just kind of went from there that I really kind of decided during my high school years that it was something

that that I would really like to do. And uh, you know, I uh, I would meet people and just uh it would be kind of amazed that I knew as much about architecture as I did for having never been anywhere.

You know, I was, I was studying turf management in school at that point, and didn't know whether I should jump in the landscape architecture at Oregon or stay with turf at Oregon States, and uh, but I uh, it all, it all kind of came in line for me when I worked at Pacific Dunes. It really gave me a very vivid understanding of the business and uh, really what it takes to really do great architecture right from the

get go, you know. I mean, it's obviously one of the best pieces of land that anybody's been handed in the last eighty years, Pacific Dunes. But uh, what really, what really I was impressed with was, uh was the level of detail. You know. Obviously I knew that Tom was an exceptional designer, having ready his his his books and and followed his career through through the nineties as he made the ascent of getting a project like that.

But I was enormously impressed with the with the talent and uh level of dedication of of the other guys that were on the project, like Chimberbina and uh and Brian Slanik, you know, his associates, and the fact that you know they they also would kind of throw you know, a young guy like me out there to uh, you know, give stuff a shot and uh and to really contribute right out of the gates. It was a lot of fun because you know, I I stood the architecture so

closely to an obsessive, compulsive sort of level. But to uh to get out there and Tom, you know, let me shape this or or let me you know, handle the grassing on that, and uh and just you know, throw ideas. He is a nineteen year old kid, but Tom would. Tom was always absorbing ideas from everyone. You know, he was Uh, he was fun to work for like that, and the fact that uh he always has obviously you know,

he's one of the best architects ever. Say, this is a very strong vision for where everything's going and what he wants to do. But he'll just throw throw people out there and see if they come back with something better, and if it's good, they'll, uh he'll go with it, and if if not, it'll come up with something better. So it was a lot of fun to work for Tom.

Right out of the gates. It was kind of a surreal experience to be out there on my first internship and uh, uh you know, be standing there in a hole, he asked. My opinion. No, just it's a young guy, you know. Uh, certainly again, certainly well studied on architecture, but maybe not with the experience of having you got to get out and visit and study golf courses just being a teenager. So that's how I kind of got

started with it. Uh, you know, I started working for Tom and worked at Stonewall in Pennsylvania and then went bound down to barn Google Dunes and uh got to kind of expand my role on on projects working working down there, and you know, it was really an amazing experience. I mean, working on two of the three highest rated golf courses built in the last eight years was pretty crazy. Oh, we're gonna do this every year, you know. Uh, And obviously it doesn't work out that, but it was certainly

a lot of fun. So I'll always be very appreciative of the opportunities that Tom gave me to to get into the business and take a shot at it.

streak a lot. I got play three or six holes today, but uh yeah, I finally got We finally had a snowstorm February ninety five that busted up the streak.

it was tough for my streak. Then I was hoping there was gonna make it five hundred.

but it kind of takes it all tough. It's a higher level. And that's the way that look at great architecture when you think of you know, Royal Dornock or Pinerist number two, the old course, every little homp and every little bump out there, you know, a rise that making it all nearly perfect. You know, you're always learning something about the golf course so to speak, you know, and all the interesting so you can you can find

out there. And you know, as designers, I always kind of, you know, take a step back and one it's like, how much do people really really notice the the intricacies that we try and put into architecture like that? You know, I think that's one of the strengths of that. I marvel that, you know, what Pacific Dunes was, the the quality, the details and trying to get it to you know, that level, the fun shots around.

that we throw into the the equation. So I especially really enjoy doing the design work for for those kinds of people, you know, My favorite events here at mid Pins Pine Needles are they have the US kids in the summertime, and you know, uh, the golf courses are basically invaded by you know, ten to fifteen year old kids for an entire week, and I always really enjoy it because I hope that the kids are as excited about what they see out on the golf course Ross's

great old designs and the work that we have put into restoring them, that they are really impacted the same way that I was when I was a kid, you know, in high school or before that, like the period that we were talking about. When I go to cool places, you know USGA caliber courses like Portland Golf Club, and you know, I really hope the kids enjoy it the way that I did go into those. But even just the people you know day to day that come and

play golf at Midpines Pine Needles. You know, a guy by the name of a Jay Michols will become one of my best friends to play golf with, you know, an older gentleman, maybe sixty five or seventy or so.

you know the Pinehurst Uh uh Main, it's main. It's guys that suggested I go see Midpines.

to go see Ross's original uh original work. Uh here Uh, since you know Piner's number two greens that I was been switched to U S g A greens at some point, so they've been reshaped, but they're still very close to the uh the originals, but midpoints you can go see what we call the final float, the final raking, and perfect detail of what Ross's style was exactly exactly like.

So I would come over and look at the golf course during the Number two work and got to know Kelly Miller and the Miller Belle McAllan family and kind of got started just kind of talking about the golf course. You know, I'd found many photos of of Pineher's number two in the tough garf guys from the nineteen twenties and thirties, you know, the period when the golf course had been completed by Ross, and it was really just very impressive to what I saw in modern terms and

especially back then. So I started speaking with Kelly about the opportunity to try and restore it. They wanted to do a a greens re grassing project and switch them from from bent grass back over to riudeo grass as they originally were, and you know, I just kind of started, you know, throwing ideas at him of what they could

what they could do. I did some several photoshops of what I of what the holes originally looked like, you know, react adding the uh the sand hills sandhills details, you know, the the natural bunkers and uh uh sandy hard pain areas around the holes, which were such a unique feature that we obviously reacted with number two. And I think they were pretty intrigued to to try that as as much as as possible and will be practical for the

for the course. You know, as I always say, it's it's kind of like Pine Valley, but playable for the for the normal person. Uh, since it's not not as uh you know, Penal. You know, the the ground is

so much firmer here in the sandy areas. So you know, we just kind of started talking about it and and uh they really liked the photoshops and my ideas for for what uh the holes looked like or I thought they looked like, and uh started throwing together plans for it in that autumn of it was twenty twelve, and uh just kind of went from there with it. We

uh we broke around just after Thanksgiving that year. And I think the thing that was most intriguing to me about the golf courses is, while it's the same general style is Pineer's number two U and Ross's work here. He tried to make all of the golf courses that he worked on here a little bit different stylistically. While the Bunkers were all natural and rugged and had the sandy hard pain areas, uh, you know, the overall style of each golf course is a little bit different from

the other one. So I really really worked hard to draft off of that of his original concepts and get them to work for for modern play. So a lot of fun. You know, a lot of our of restoration architectures is one part design and the other part is kind of archaeology and trying to figure out what was actually in the original designers heads. And uh, it's been a lot of fun to do that on all the golf courses I've worked on here.

What I always marvel at in Ross's work is his ability to have come up with the exact right concepts for each hole on the ground that he's given. You know, obviously a great router of holes, always finding interesting ways to attack the landscape and find good green sites, find the right place to put the holes where it's a comfortable walk, and all the holes are interesting and varied.

But the thing that I really like the most about especially his work here, is that he again he was just always finding the right answer for the design of.

to the left hand side. The green is cannied on a forty five degree angle, is such that you really need to hit your T shot on the left hand side of the fairway. There's a big front right bunker that really makes approaching the green from the right hand side of the fairway a nightmare. It's almost impossible to

hold into some conditions. So what Ross did is he set up a T shot where you could hit a nice, big sort of swing draw that would sort of hit in the landing air and kind of bound down to the honey spot and the far left hand side of the fairway, the side of the fairway that you need to be coming in from. Only you know, because of the orientation of the green, you wind up having hit

this nice little draw down in the landing area. Then you really need to hit like a straight shot or even like a little baby fade off of this hanging lot where it becomes a very awkward shot. So the bottom line is the player that has all the different kinds of shots really has the advantage in the hole.

The seventeenth hole is almost the dead opposite, but again utilizing the same kind of concept where the land is gently going down into the right in the landing area and the T shot, So you know, a player that can hit a fade on the T shot really has

kind of an advantage. And then you know the second shot, all there's a just a big, old, big old hillside where the bunkering front left of the green that you know, really really encourages you trying to hit a draw into the green site again opposite, you know, off of a off of a kind of a hanging lie where the ball is gonna be a little bit below your feet and the tendency always is going to be to miss it from the right far be a you know, let alone trying hit draw off of So you know, he

was just always coming up with, I think, the right answer for a piece of ground. You know, he's a great router, and he had just a real really a real knack for finding the right concept for the hole. And you get eighteen different looks all the way through. You know, you're always he's just really creative of finding the right answer and then eighteen in a row of in the right answer all to arrive at a golf course that is really varied and cool all the way

through all of his best work. I think that kind of homework in the designs.

when they're in the fairway. So I think, you know, that's that is one of the things I think that's underappreciated with.

US Open. Yeah, but the whole always worked very very well for for the average player. And that's why, you know, I really think that that he had is one of the best impacts of anyone in the history of American golf. You know, if you think about his his his his work throughout his life. You know, having done that many hundreds of golf courses, you know, he made it possible to take really good sound architecture to the masses. Uh. You know, any little town that just wanted a cool little.

that's something that I admire. The most in him is that he had he didn't seem to have really an enormous ego, you know, as a man from humble beginnings in Scotland and uh immigrated to the United States and it and built himself to have this massive business, so many employees at one point, uh you know this, at one point, I believe I've heard that he had like three thousand employees an extension just to if he counted all the laborers on all the projects.

that Tiger Woods has had in the modern age. You think about who's really next in line behind that, I think it's pretty obvious.

cool course that kind of flies under the radar. But again, I feel kind of bad just sort of throwing those two out there because there's so many of them that, uh that inevitably it's uh, it's sort of like being asked, what's your favorite child. You can't you can't really do that, you know. Uh, I'm sure that I'm sure there's several great ross courses that I still myself have never been to.

usually very affordable. So you know, that's always I think, I think a good way to.

One that I also really like is a place that I went briefly did some work for for Gil hants At a couple years ago as Sicona in Rhode Island. Short golf course.

Actually he's spent obviously winters down here in the Pinehurstteria and and then spent his a lot of his summers up along the shore and Rhode Island.

of the most forefront architects of today. Tell us a little bit about, you know, some commonalities that they share that make them so great.

classical classical material. You know. I mean anytime that that any of them are dving away from anything that's completely under and natural, it's always going in an interesting, old, kind of quirky way, you know. I think a Gills one of gills strengths is his willingness and uh interest in building sort of like uh, you know, classic New England architecture or classic English countryside architecture with a little more kind of quirky sort of uh, you know, stuff

in there. But I think it all comes back to to the general philosophics of of they're gonna get out there and they're gonna build great architecture in the field with their own shapers, their own finished guys, and the hands on h approach to the work, you know, uh, And they all go about that a little bit differently.

all night long. You know. It's very impressive. But that's why I think it's kind of his happy places to get out there in the field and build stuff himself, whereas his Doak was also a shaper back in his

younger years working for PETI. But he goes about the work in the field in a slightly different manner where you know, he likes to sort of like walk around and hover over the proceedings and work on multiple things at once, where we can jump over to the guys working in this set of bunkers over here building his greens over here. And he has a you know, a very deep talent pool of shaping design associates that are

that are perfect for that. You know, they could probably all be designers on their own, uh, but they they are incredibly good shapers and uh. And he utilizes that back and forth dynamic h very well. Bill is the same sort of way where where he spends a lot of time kind of walking a property and uh and you know, throwing it a different a bunch of different ideas around and coming up with they really what he really wants to do and what he thinks is gonna

work very well. And then he's actually on a on a sand pro at the very end of the process finishing the greens himself, which is something that Gill does as well, but that is really you know, Bill's Bill's main kind of creative construction ports of the processes. You know, he he feel kind of directs that the building of the green and then uh and then actually finishes it himself. So you know, they all go about you know, the

work slightly differently. Uh and uh and I think that's the you know, to kind of complete the point on Bill, he spends more time i think, walk king his projects than uh than any anyone. You know, He's He's constantly on site and it's kind of walking and throwing ideas around what.

good eye for things. But what kind of blew my mind is is just how much he was out in the field, how much you know, Jim Orbin f Brian Swank, they were you know, Brian was shaping every single day. Jim was in and out shaping this shaping that the attend and these are you know again guys that could design on their own.

You you take a bunch of really really talented people that uh that know what's good and and and know what'll work, and you throw them all out there and uh just run it through the uh, run it through the process, and see who you come out come up with on the other side. I don't see how anybody could uh could expect to get results that good uh, merely from handing plans to a contractor. And and the thing is is not only uh is the design build

philosophy you know better in terms of architecture. It's also a lot a lot more practical for the client. You know, the more you're eliminating outside contracted costs to where things are either they just not turning out very good or as good as they can or or they're having to be rebuilt multiple times to get it to all fun they get to a good uh, a good place in

the finish line. Uh. You know, it just it just expands the price tag, you know, uh, by eliminating the middleman and uh, just getting out there and doing it yourself. And and I think that's you'd have to ask Tom himself, but I think that that's something that he he realized that degree of craftsmanship working for Pete, and I think

that Bill also did. And they had their own ideas about what they wanted to do that were slightly different from Pete, but they recognized the value of approaching the work like that and uh and and they just kind of fallowed suit and uh and even took it to another level of h of hands on, hands on construction. And that's been by virtue. It's been handed on to

two guys like myself who have worked for them. You know, Uh, I do my own shaping just like Gilbuzz because I think it's the most practical way to go about it. You know, if if I have a lot of different projects going on at once, I might uh, I might you know, to spend time jumping around uh uh you know, feel directing a little bit how I described uh uh Bill and Ben and Tom working as opposed to being on the machine like gill is. But you know, again

it's the same same difference. You know. I've I've learned how to be efficient and uh and practical and save clients' money while getting the right product. And I've even kind of, you know, kind of tried to take what I've learned from the strengths of of all their personalities and uh and utilize it to hopefully wind up with good, good

results myself. Uh So I've definitely learned a lot from watching watching how they conduct themselves and and the differences in their little styles that that that they utilized achieve good results. Yeah.

from everybody. So having the collaborative approach on site, I mean it's not going to hurt you, you know, it's absolutely So you're currently consulting on you know, a bunch of Golden Age courses. You're a you're a golf nerd as you as you say, just like me and uh and you you know, you've you've got kind of a vast array of architects. Like in terms of Golden Age architects, who do you think flies under the radar?

that obviously he's a household name in architectural circles. But I think that most people sitting watching a Master's telecast every year there, they know, they know all about Alistair McKenzie by now, and and most everybody you know knows quite a bit about Donald Ross just for the iconic effect that he's had and golf and architecture and famous places like Piner's Number two. But but Colt, you know, all the different places that he worked at is really impressive list.

sixty one hundred yard golf course, and the architecture all worked at varying degrees in between, you know, uh, so that you were getting completely different golf courses you could play the same day just by moving around the whole locations. That's what kind of made it all work, is you know, they'd set the short course and set a bunch of really wild, tough pins and then uh vice versa for

for the for the longer course. But all all, all the architecture still worked, and the players had to really think about what they were doing at that where they were trying to hit t shots to get good angles

into greens and where we're not to miss greens. All the all the bells and whistles of g architecture, you know, so as but you know, generally a really a well known famous architect, you know, if you're gonna go into more obscure architects, you know, one of the one of the guys that we have talked about a bit, you know before before the podcast. You know, uh uh Avy McCann, who did a lot of work in the Northwest where

I grew up as an American. An American architect, really did some great quality work that I don't think people really realize how good it was. And a lot of is the fact that you know, maybe time hasn't really been as as friendly to their work is uh as it should have been. You know, a lot of his course has been changed, or or too many trees planet or just the usual things that happen over the span

of of one hundred years. You know, greens get changed, various things, all the things that happened, and then you know, in the in the UK, I always really, I always

really liked James Braid's work. You know, there's a lot of great bray golf course and there's also some neat ones that kind of fly under the radar, and I always I always found a lot of those to be some of the more entertaining golf courses that I went to in the UK, And a lot of them would uh be just kind of uh right under the notses a lot of the time of of of bigger, famous

famous places. You know, a couple of examples be uh there's a place that's really just up the railway line from Carnosti called Pammir, which is of course that's kind of easily missed over there. The first couple holes in the last coup holes play across very very flatish kind

of farm land. But in the middle of the golf course it all goes out of this very rumpled and wild little dunescape out there with some really really sharp crazy dunes and uh and and the holes are really rout and in a lot of interesting ways to uh to to arrive at some pretty unique holes. There's a couple holes on that golf course that I would I would put on my top, likeably fifty holes in Scotland.

Just some really really neat stuff out there, you know, a couple of places Fraser for a golf club in

northern Scotland. It's kind of like that where flies a little bit under the radar, but there was a hole out there that I uh, you know, I was inspired for an idea that we ended up using the Olympic course, the Ninth Pole, where it was kind of inspired from a hole there where there was these two big mounds in front of greens where if the pin were kind of front right on the green, behind the front right mound, you could actually sort of carren a shot off of

the front left mound and curl it around the mound front right of the green, and then if the pin was on the west side you could do vice versa. You could if it was behind that mound, you could sort of curl a shot off of it. You know, just some really neat, little wild you know, uh, Scottish Scottish architecture. Same would go for for Borrower up in the far north of Scotland, north of a dorn like I'm pretty sure that's a break course as well.

could get to those places. So, you know, Dorrit kind of flew under the radar for so long that the place is north of it, like Borra.