Welcome back to another edition of the Fridagg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at b dratty. I know it's the middle of the suburb, but fall is not that far away, and it might be time to load up on some of your favorite fall accessories. I think the thing I'm wearing right now, I'm recording this in my basement, which gets very cold. I'm wearing the Russell Kru neck sweatshirt made by b dratty. It is I have two of these. They come in
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everything on that website. So go to bedreddy dot com use the code Brotherhood thirty and you'll get thirty percent off just about everything on that website. Today's episode, I am joined by the PGA's Chief Championships officer Carrie Haig. Obviously, he is renowned for his setups at the PGA Championship, the KPMG Women's Championship, PGA Championship, as well as the Ryder Cup. So I talked to Carrie in detail about our first major, which is no more than ten days
away at this point. It is going to be the PGA Championship at Harding Park in San Francisco. So we talk in detail about Hardigg Parks and setting up a major championship against the world's best players. Without further ado, here is Carrie Haig. I miss the green for example, I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a frid Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg fridaygg Frida egg ridegg Brighte egg Lie, I'm about ready to.
Run off of the.
So I I read you were a good player grown up, you're a scratch golfer. Was there a moment that killed any illusions you had of playing golf as a professional and you know put you into the uh you know you then pursued it golf as a profession, not a professional.
Uh.
Yeah, as I said, I was a decent amateur player, but I played junior golf in England. But I loved other sports as well, So I played soccer, rugby, cricket, basketball, and I loved those team sports. So in truth, I didn't, you know, it's not like here way you'll literally give your whole life to a single sport. So then I got to I played in a couple of national events and saw really how good, you know, the great players are. I love the game, totally, absolutely loved the game and
wanted to sort of work with the game. And what better opportunity than to end up ultimately doing what I'm doing with the rules of the golf.
Course setup and overseeing all of that championship.
Yeah, let's let's talk about that. Obviously, the big news we were going to be the first major championship of the year, first major championship. Back, is there? Do you feel any pressure with being the first major in this post corona, you know, the coronavirus world, not post coronavirus world.
I wouldn't say necessarily pressure to be the first.
Obviously, we're excited that major championship golf is going to actually happen and the fact that we are the first this calendar year is nice, but certainly by no means I think does it bring extra pressure in that regard. I think we all have the continuing concern about the virus, and you know, still what's happening today and every day it's something new that happens. So those concerns for people and the community from day one when the virus started
in March, has been priority number one. And the fact that we're able to host a major championship at Harding Park, which we've looked forward to for many years, is exciting in itself, even though there won't be any spectators.
Talk about setting up obviously your renowned for your setup at the PGA, What are some of the maybe advantages or drawbacks are setting up without fans versus setting up with fans.
I've been thinking about that.
Actually, what I'll be doing the next two weeks is in many ways exactly the same as I do for every other championship.
That that's not going to change.
In terms of trying to, you know, bring out a fair, challenging, interesting yet exciting golf course for the best players in the world. And although you know all that part of the Championship remain one hundred percent the same as it's always been. The biggest difference is what would be going on or not going on outside of the ropes and sort of how that affects the sort of play inside the ropes and the visual.
What is seen by you know, the worldwide viewers inside the ropes on the telecast.
But in terms of, you know, how we set it up, we'll look at all the same things we always do in terms of, you know, what the weather's going to be like, I can you know, hopefully get the golf course into the condition that will fairly test the best players in the world and make them think and hopefully bring out the great excitement that we like to see at a PGA Championship.
Yeah, when you signed Harding Park On, obviously the PGA was still an August major, and then you were it was going to be this May, and now you're back in August. How does the course play differently in August versus that May May date that it was originally planned for.
Yeah, that too has been interesting.
As you say, we've gone from August when we signed it, to May two years ago and then back to August. The original Probably the original week that we could have been on or would.
Have been on. But there's a lot of things have happened in between.
Golf course wise. One of the fortunate things in that regard is the San Francisco's climate is so generally temperate that it's not temperature wise, conditioning wise should not be that much different in May than August. Obviously, agronomically, we did what we had put on hold and we're not going to do in the spring with the May date.
Once we postponed and put it to August, we started to redo some of the the agonomic practices in the spring when it was closed so that it can get through the summertime.
And that's been interesting.
You know, the golf course was closed for five or six weeks immediately after the virus hit, and then it was opened and was full of play from dawn till dusk, and now the past two weeks prior to the start of the championship.
It will be closed again.
So we've sort of gone through no play and it was in great condition in the spring and then you know, full t sheet for ten eleven weeks and now well eight a nine weeks should I say, And now you know getting it back to Christine condition for next week. So we were a little less daylight. We had to adjust the starting times fifteen twenty minutes or so because of the less daylight. But we're still hopeful it will play as we hoped it would play.
And obviously, just like.
Every championship, with dependent on what the weather does, if the wind blows or not, or you know, well in fact, how the golf course plays.
Yeah, with that agronomic lead up, they were talking about how early are you starting to you know, how long of a process is that it is a year eighteen months that you're planning agronomic events, whether it's you know, punching greens or doing different adjustments to the golf course in the lead up to a traditional Obviously this is not a normal situation. But in a normal situation, an ideal situation, what does that lead up process look like.
Well, that's a great question.
I think in this case, it's probably been about two years that we started to work. I started to work with the you know, the superintendent at Harding Park. You know, they actually had three people in charge, Kevin Tan and al Mar and Jeffrey sort of combine as a team
and we had our original concert. What we did put into place was we wanted to adjust the fairways to bring into play some of the challenges of the golf course, so that is the bunkers and some of the penalty areas and bring the fairways a little closer or into both of those, which meant adjusting the contours of the fairways and how they were lined up. So eighteen months ago we actually sort of widened the side of the fairways that were going into these bunkers or closer to
the penalty areas. Then so all the guests for a year played with very wide fairways. Then in twenty nineteen we brought in the other side of the fairways and not only back to the original width, but in some cases a little narrower. So that in effect was a year and long process to make that change, and that's
probably the biggest change we made. I think we did add three or four additional teas, two of which were already in the plans that the club had, and a couple of the thoughts that we came up within our initial review of the golf course three years ago. Long process, and again need none of those changed with the date change.
But to your point verifying of the greens and the top dressing and some of the practices we did the fairways and the greens got readjusted, the cust of the day change into August.
With with and fairway with you were talking about. I'm interested to hear your perspective on is there a width of fairways? Obviously contours and faaraways, grade of slope could be different that could make players certain faraways play smaller.
But is there a general kind of magic number that you look at saying this wide of a fairway tests you know, rewards inaccurate te shot while still allowing somebody to hit a driver, say, or you know where is there a magic number that you kind of like to look at year and year out?
Yeah, there really is.
And I think to your point, you really need to look at every individual hole and see sort of how it's designed. What you know, it's a dog lay, if it straight, what the canber, the slope of those fair ways are, where the where the bunkering is located, and sort of based on all of those and the length of the hole, because that obviously has a bearing on
the width or not. And I think my aim or our aim is to try and get it so that when the player stands on the tee they sort of have to think a little bit about, you know, where to hit it.
Should I hit a driver? Should I not hit a driver?
What's the penalty for doing hitting the driver versus not hitting it? And I always think and say, just every golfer, not just the best players in the world. But if you can make a golfer think, then I think the tendency is you tend to enjoy playing that golf course a lot more than just being standing up and you can hit whatever shot you want without having a think, And that's sort of the reasoning or part of the
reason we do it. So with Wise, you know, it could be you know, twenty two twenty three yards wide is narrow, but it could be thirty five even forty yards wide. So I don't think there's a set with I think you're going to take all those factors in the consideration and then make your best judgment to again, just you know, put yourself in that position on that team. You know, what is it that makes you think or nothink?
And how wide is the appropriate with based on what you visually see off that team.
With harding Park, you talked about moving fairways to you know, get the hazards more in play specifically for this championship. What are some other unique aspects of the golf course that you are going to try or hope to accentuate with your setup.
Well, I think the you know, it's a beautiful part from golf course. It's relatively flat, it's it's very easy to walk from a player standpoint, so it has just jumped rolls throughout the course. It's highlighted by beautiful California cypress trees and just a stunning to look at except if.
You ball hits them and stays in them.
And the entire property is surrounded by a lake, lake merseat, so visually there's a lot of beautiful, stunning views.
It's you know, it's.
Only half a mile although it's not on the ocean, it's only probably half a mile to the Pacific Ocean. So in that regards, it's it's a beautiful golf course, fun golf course to play, and an easy golf course to be able to walk. Specifically for the setup, as you say, I think adding some of these teas we did so for a couple of reasons, you know, One was you know, to make provide a longer path three
the eighth hole maybe two hundred and fifty yard par three. Previously, you know, although it was alongest par three was only like two twenty yards or thereabouts. So given the players along the par three four was important. The other the three other par three is a relatively short in fact, you know, two hundred yards or less, so that was part of it. Another fun aspect. The two par fives are probably both reachable, which in itself gives the players
some fun and some options to go at it. And there are two relatively short par fours, one on each
nine the seventh hole and sixteenth holes. So with the setup probably you know, one or two days for either or both of those holes, we may look to move the tier again, so the players have that option to you know, probably go full go for the green, and again if you do that, you know, the sixteenth in particular has lateness, said on the left side of the green, and you know, a big cypress tree on the corner
of the dog leg to hit at the greens. So those factors and where it is in the round I think could and hopefully will lead to some great excitement coming down to the finish of the Major championship. So all those aspects make it fun. And then a couple of the other part fours where we added teas it sort of made it more of a dog leg on one occasion, brought another the cypress trees in and the
fairway bunkers into play on the thirteenth calls. So you know, those are the sort of things that we're looking at when we look to make additions or changes, again hopefully to make the players think, but hopefully to make it a more exciting fun venue to watch and play.
Yeah, that sixteenth ell is really neat. How it's got that narrow kind of angle green also which it should be a really fun short Part four And just in gener I think, you know, the most exciting stretch of golf on that golf course happens from about fourteen through eighteen. It really gets into the best property on the site and it should lend itself well to you know, a closing stretch of a major In terms of your all your experience now doing the setup for a number of years,
has your personal philosophy changed at all? And you know, were there moments that made you think differently over the last say decade or so of setting up golf courses.
I think it continues to change, Yes, say, I think you always, but.
It varies so much on the golf course.
You know, you don't want to change the golf course and the architecture of the golf course where the chapters that's been played. Again, I think the philosophy continue has always been to try and bring out what are the fun elements, interesting elements, challenging and.
Elements or difficult elements of the golf any golf course.
But you know, the height of the rough I think I would say has probably changed over time with technology we've had to certainly adapt to over the years to you know, as far as the players are hitting the ball, that's certainly changed in a lot of cases.
Many of the courses we play have changed over the years.
As well to adapt to the change in nature of
the game. But as we know, with the average driving length now basically three hundred yards for the majority of the players who will be playing, then you know, those landing areas have changed, and those courses that the bunkering was a two seventy five or two eighty yards thirty years ago, they have been able in many in some cases have been able to change and others have, But all of those factors make you have to change a little bit your philosophy of how you set it up.
But I think the overriding philosophy has and always hopefully continues to be that you'll try and make it so that the players are challenged, but in a fair and exciting way. You know, everyone who sets up any golf course always hopes that you don't go over the top and make it unfair. You want good shots to be rewarded. In our case, we don't really mind what the winning
score is. It's more important that the players enjoy the experience and our challenge by the experience to hopefully show be able for them to showcase their skills, and hopefully that the best player that week wins, as is usually the case, and it's not just one area of the game that you need to accel at.
Yeah, I imagine that with that distance, the increase with how far players are hitting it. I mean, Bryson obviously has been a hot topic the last since the return of Gotha. With how far he's hitting it, It just makes that line of that overboard versus just right is it? Do you feel like it's gotten thinner and thinner as the distances have increased.
I think there's a tendency if you've led it to get become that way. But certainly my hope is that we don't allow it to influence what you do, and you should still aim to set it up fairly and as you set it up, and you know, obviously a big part of it is the speed of the greens, and you know, a big part of what that should be or rough to be is dependent on the greens complexes that you're playing, and that varies so much from
venue to venue. Harding Park, I think it's fair to say are generally not severe greens in terms of slopes. They're sort of gentle slopes, you know, which which you know should allow us to get the greens fairly quick. But that's okay.
If the green complexes.
Allow you to do that, then that's appropriate for the best players in the world. And so long as you're always trying to set up what is appropriate and fair for whatever group, even if it's you know, the member guest at a club or a monthly medal, it's you know, you need to set it up so it's fair. But the players enjoy it. So the philosophy for the best players in the world to others is just, you know,
to be reasonable, fair and use common sense. And that's certainly what we try and do year in year.
With the one are the golf terms I as a golf architecture kind of fan that I always kind of have an adverse reaction to with players when players discuss stuff is fair, the idea of fair. You know, what is fair, what isn't fair? How do you delineate the term fair for you know, tournament off we've sort of.
Been touching on it. I think throughout the discussion. Personally, I think it's so that good shots are rewarded with the opportunities to score well, you know, I that would be you know, firm greens are okay.
But.
You know, and with the fair ways can vary. But it's it's that balance of all of the different factors that go into setting, you know, is in terms of it's what makes it fair or not fair, And certainly there is you know, there's a line there that you need to be careful of, you know, and sometimes things
you know are out of your control. If the windows blow at thirty miles an hour, and you know it's try and sunny, and things get you know, dry, faster than you anticipated, and you know the day earlier didn't put enough moisture into the creams. Then unfortunately things happen. And you know, all I ever say is you try and make your best decisions all every day at the time, and use all the information you can that's available to
make those decisions. And sometimes mother nature can come around and you know hurt you or bite you, but hopefully it's not through you doing something deliberately to try and make it unfair. It would be you know, you either had wrong information or didn't quite make the best judgments. So that's how I kind of try and look at
it for every event. Any in all events, and as I say, you're only as good as the next day, that your next round that you're setting up, because danger can be when you know one bad whole location or one bad whatever, nobody ever forgets it.
So it's you're only as good as the next round, like you're setting up in this business.
Yeah, that's definitely for sure. A true statement was you've obviously your career and you've had great success avoiding the disaster, and everybody is always praises your setups. Was there ever a championship around where you really were nervous that you might be on the edge of something not being okay? And then as far as is there a tournament that you look back on and think, God, we really nailed that setup that stands out more so than any other event.
Well, that's a great question, man, I'd say to the first part of that, I would say, very often are the cases when you know you've got to you know, churn in your stomach just hoping not you know, the wind's starting to blow, whatever it is, the rains pouring down, or whatever the issue that you have a not in your stomach.
You know, did we set it up correctly and fairly? You know? So, I would say, you know, most most weeks.
So most events, there's you know, a hole or a couple of holes where you are trying.
To test the players.
You are putting them some things out there to try and make it challenging, and you know, of course there's concern of how it's received. Yeah, I'd say, you know, every week, every every week, without doubt, there's always concern of the unknown because you never know what the weather is going to do, what the wind's going to do you have how things have reacted to not putting on
as much water or no water. That's why I usually lose a bit of weight during the week of a championship for that concern and worry.
I'm not ashamed to say that or embarrassed to say it.
It's you know, it's take the job very seriously and I want to do the best that I can. And anytime you feel that way towards what you do, I think there's always.
Concern in terms of ever nailing a setup.
You know, in truth, I think they probably the ones that are most satisfying are those where you have bad weather or or challenging circumstances and you know, you get through it somehow, you know. I guess one that springs to mind for the good and the bad would be a Valhalla in twenty fourteen, when you know, we'd had rain Friday and we'd have delays, we'd come teas and we played Sunday morning, and we ended up playing Sunday afternoon and we've got back on track.
And Sunday night too.
And then you know, at Sunday about eleven thirty, all of a sudden we had We've got a great weather forecast, and all of a sudden, this big cloud came over us and we had to suspend play. And you know, it absolutely dumped probably an inch inch and a half of rain on what was already a saturated golf course. But then it passed through. It was a very short rainfall, but the golf course was totally flooded, and you know, I looked around, drove around. The sun was going to
be out the rest of the day. You know, most people were kind of saying, well, there's no way we can play. We need to sort of not play, And you know, it was a very tough, difficult decision because it was extremely wet. It was extremely challenging when we immediately chose to start playing, but we made we collectively made that decision to start playing to give us a
chance to finish that night. Now, we needed a lot of things to go right for us to finish that night because of their aim, because of what we had to do with all the casual water and the players having to take relief then for slower play. But you know, made that tough decision. Players went back out. We were
whatever two two and a half hours behind schedule. And ultimately the players played and we had what ended up being one of the most exciting, exhilarating finishes to a major championship we've ever had for a lot of reasons, and none of which was the officials or PGA and making the players play. They the last three groups, as you remember, all came up eighteen together. But at any time, had any one of the players said, no, it's too
dark to play, we would have stopped playing. Nobody from the PGA was putting pressure on them, but the players wanted to finish. And what ended up being, you know, as I say, a great finish to what was it, you know, a very difficult and challenging situation. In that case, we ended up winning. But you know a lot of players, certainly early in the way, were not happy that we were playing when it was so wet.
You know, it was a raining but because of the wet conditions.
It's interesting that, you know, the one that stands out is the most kind of rewarding was the one that had you face the most you know, challenges to overcome. What types of set up aspects do you feel today really reward good play and allow players to separate themselves well that's.
A tough question as well. I think again I go back to all the things we've been talking about. I do think if you can set up a golf course to make players have to think what to do a I think players much really enjoy playing the game playing those courses when that make you think and have to make decisions. So and by doing that, hopefully you set
it up. You know, I would say, we have some of the you know, the most difficult whole locations possible on many of the greens, but at the right time and at the appropriate time, you know, put the whole locations in places that allow the players or tempt the players to go out at those whole locations to therefore be able to score well, go after visities or readers. And again, I think that sort of combination of making you know, some of the whole locations accessible and tempting,
whereas others may be really difficult and challenging. And you know, players as great as they are, sometimes go right out the really difficult whole location and still be rewarded, but at the same time may not get into trouble and drop shots. So it's it's a balance, as I think everything is, and just you and I when we play. We like those challenges.
We like the balance, and.
We all like to be rewarded if you get good shots or allowed to go at a flag. And I always say, member, guests or you know, a big tournament, how often do you go at every whole location? Is probably the most difficult on the golf course and kind of look back and how much fun is that? How
much do you really enjoy that? And I know some members like to bring their guess our course is impossible with all these but people have so much more fun if you know at least you know a few the whole locations accessible.
On the school buildies or they're allowed to attack. Yeah, some tough ones as well.
Not balance that makes it's really what I'm looking to try and find.
At any event.
Yeah, I think, I mean, variety is so important. You do you don't want every single pintuck because you know it's you want to see some players have opportunities to get some momentum going too. You know, it's a big
part of the game. You think about setup all the time obviously, and I'm sure that you watch a lot of professional golf, is there is there a certain thing that every you know year when you're watching, when you're you know, PGA week and you start their players are out there playing that you know, you're always like constantly makes your jaw drop about the best players in the world and how good that they You somehow forget how good they are at something.
Yeah, you're right, And.
That's the great thing about the fortunate thing we are in terms of operating and running a made your championship is you get to see truly how great the best players in the world are at this game.
Their skill level is unbelievable. The amount of work, time, effort, and energy they put into.
Learning and developing their skills is unbelievable.
But yeah, I do during the week.
Most of the practice rounds, I really try and make an effort to go and see how the goal of course is playing and where they are the players are choosing to hit their.
T shots from and come in from, because all our planning that.
We've been doing for three years is all based on what we believe they're going to do.
But you know, it's.
Certainly part of the setup and helps me in setting up is seeing during the practice rounds where they are actually hitting it to how they are looking to play a hole. Based on that, I may adjust things and likely will adjust things come championship rounds based on what I may or may not see on the practice rounds, which.
Again each day.
Yes, I've got a sort of a four day planning place, but absolutely during the week I will change that. We will change that based on the weather, based on how we're seeing the players playing it, and you know, based on how the golf courses is being received and how it's been played.
With the PGA Championship, how would you say a PGA Championship course is distinct from say a US Open or an Open Championship course.
That two is another good question. You've got a lot of good questions here.
Obviously we're different well compared to the US Open and the Open Championship, they too sort of rotate and have different courses each year, which we do.
In the past.
I answered that question that with that August date, we were often challenged agronomically, certainly in the Northeast or Midwest the cool season grasses, when you've got ninety plus degree temperatures of high humidity, we are certainly limited on green speed and firmness of greens. You know, with often summertime, rains, understorms,
what have you. So the way our golf course, I would say probably eight times out of ten in the August day we were never able to bring the golf course to the conditions for example that AUGUSTA can do so in April in Georgia when it's seventy five degrees or sixty degrees. And you know, yeah, they too get rained occasionally, but not as often as we obviously, you know, I think eight out of twelve times we've had rain
delays in August. Now we moved to May, I think you know that although we've now only had one one championship in May of beth Page, but that allowed us that the grass, the conditioning was so much healthier.
In May and the Northeast and Midwest than in August. So that will it did.
And will in the future I think allow us to you know, show different conditions and probably more challenging conditions. You're more likely to have wind in May date than we are in the August date, you.
Know, generally speaking around the country.
So what I would answer that question differently now than I did with our August date. But you know, I think we all try and do our own obviously links courses of the Open are totally different gain to parkland courses, which generally what we play. But I'd like to think that we set them up, you know, fairly and interestingly and challenge, you know, to challenge the best players in
the world. And you know, each each golf course, each architect is different, so we have to sort of work within what those that golf course gives us and hopefully make it fun, challenging and you know, just as importantly exciting for not only the players, but for the spectators and the television.
If you could have one course to set up, say that you haven't had a chance to host a major at yet. It could be a future site of yours, or it could be any site, any golf course, which what's a course that you'd love to set up for the best players, the best men or women to play.
Well?
I think you're right. I would say it's probably, you know, the courses that I've enjoyed playing the most, you know, many of which or some of which will I'll never be involved, probably with having championships out But you know, I'm say Royal Drnock in Scotland. I would say Cyprus Point Shinnecock. Would love to do a championship at Shinnecock National Golf Wings would be wonderful. Any great golf course
in the country, Pine Valley. I'm not playing Pine Valley, but just you know, I've seen it on the film and just you know, the reputation that it has as a as a fun, exciting, challenging golf course would be fun to set up. So any course that you know is respected as being a great golf course, it would be fun to set up for the best players in the world to play.
Does your setup mentality have Does it shift at all when you do the KPMG Women's PGA versus the you know ment PGA? Is Is there anything that you do differently for women's goth and men's goth from a setup standpoint?
I think other than the obvious, I think that the same philosophy is very much in place in all the things we talked about, exactly the same.
For the KPMG and for the Kitchen Aide Senior PGA.
You know, obviously, the biggest adjustments are, you know, what teas are we using, what length are we playing in the courts, what height does the rough?
How difficult is it.
Based on you know, how they're able to hit the ball out of the rough and what height rough.
And what the speed of the greens are.
But that again is compared to what the green complexes offer or don't offer. And you know, you talk about the Kitchen Aid Senior PGA at Harbor Shaws, they have some of the most challenging greens complexes, you know, the I've ever seen. Jack Nicholas did a beautiful job doing it. When you first see them, you think, wow, these are crazy, fun and crazy. But the more I've been there and the more I've worked there, the.
More interesting they are.
And so long as you have the green speed right and you know, which is probably sort of middle speed, and I like to say, you can make it really fun, really interesting and really exciting and challenging for the best players in the world, the best senior players in the world. So you know, same for the KPNNG and the winds. I think it's bringing out all those factors, making it
so that they can play it. It's not too long, not too short, and the exact same philosophy, just as it would be for again, the club tournament that you play this Saturday year club. I think the same philosophy if you if you put it in place, makes a lot of sense. You know how many people like cat internal out of bounds, So you know, one of my philosophers is, you know, unless you know you absolutely have to, don't have out of bounds. If you find the ball,
go and play it. You know, some of the greatest stories in golf are from players playing out of strange places.
And the UDA.
We had a player in the Grand Slam play out of somebody's backyard, which is what the club do you? Sevy Biastereus in the Open Championship played out of the parking lot and we'll live in whatever seventy seven or whenever it was there.
That's fun speak. A couple of years ago at Birkdale when he was over and he was like, I.
Thought that was the greatest thing for golf.
And I know some people said, well they should be out of bounds, but what it's part of the golf course and you know he's only didn't mean to hit it there, but that's sort of the fun and the challenge of how do you get it back to the hole from wherever you hit it.
So the more you can do that again, the more fun, I think and enjoyable golf.
Is the comment you made about Harbor Shores. I hadn't really thought about it, but they do have some very severe greens, lots of different tiers that provide you a lot of flexibility. The comment I found interesting was that got you know with those greens. I feel those types of greens are courses that the more you play, the
more you understand them. And the same went for you with setting up them correct where you just learn every year you go back a little bit more and have different ideas that come about.
Yeah, I said, My comment was more when I first saw it, you know, sort of the year beforehand, you know about not in your stomach.
Well, why am I going to.
Put the whole locations that all the players aren't going to be all up in arms all week about them. But again, that's why I think green speed is so critical. That's appropriate to those slopes on those green and by doing what you know, I feel was the right speed for those greens, it makes it a wonderful great test of golf and a fun test of golf. But just looking at the greens, you can take yourself out of the competition before you even start.
To thinking, well, Lisa too, slope too should be it.
But again, if the green speed are right, you can make them beautifully fair and yet challenging, and you've got to hit them into the right spot.
Something that I think about and I haven't ever seen numbers on this that would prove one way or the other. But do you think a better test is slower greens with more slope in the in the putt or faster greens with less slope.
Yeah, another great question, and there's a huge difference of opinion on this.
I think.
Many good players, most good players really want.
To play quick greens.
They feel that sort of golf course should be and that's how it should be set up. But as you stayed, or as is obvious, you certainly limit the number of whole locations that any green can then offer you based if you have the greens really quick. The alternative is if you have certainly slower greens that you know you don't you don't see very often day in day out on certainly untelevised golf, it gives you more opportunities to
have a lot more whole locations on greens. And you know, there's a lot of people would also say that not necessarily. It's sometimes more difficult to hold parts on slower greens than on quick greens because you've really got to hit the ball a little harder, and maybe more of us show be as opposed to you know, trickling a ball along quick.
Agree, So I don't know there's a right or wrong.
So you can certainly look at the Open Championship where the green speed they have to keep them at a sort of a more middle of speed due to the the possibility of strong winds and the ball moving on the greens if they get them too quick. So you know, you look at the put it putting over there, and it's different. Again, there's no right and there's no wrong. I'd love at some point to be able to have our championship greens that were slow and really put whole locations up into slopes.
But I'm not.
Sure we're quite there yet, and that would be certainly taking away from the norm. I'm not sure we're there yet a major championship to do it, but you never know. Philosopher's changed and things change over time. It would be interesting to see if you had, you know, greens, if you look in the history books up until you know the fifties or sixties, greens were seven or eight on the stimp meter and very slow, and it's sort of in some ways, it'd be fun to go back and see,
you know what that would look like today. You certainly have healthier grass of more whole locations and healthier greens throughout the country if everyone did that.
Yeah, and some it might push some clubs to save some money and not redo the really cool severe green on their property that everybody complains about the ball rolling off of when you could just mow the grass a little higher.
Right, exactly right, exactly right.
I want to get you out of here, but with a couple, you know, lighter questions on the back end here, What what what feature I guess about Harding Park should viewers is one thing that you would love viewers to pay attention for or you know notice that you know, you might think it's a little subtle or not easy to discern. What was one thing that you would point out to him to pay attention to.
Probably the shorter power fours, you know, and the potential interest and excitement there. I'm not sure it's not necessarily subtle, but it's I'm hoping it'll be fun to see in sixteen I think will be because again you've got a cypress tree sort of right online to the hole unless you want to hit a fade into the green. But you've got lake missaid on the left of the hole, so if it doesn't fade, and if you're hitting it straight or you hook it, you're.
In the lake. The said potentially hitting a driver.
So and that compared to the player that chooses not to take you on lays up to one hundred or whatever his best yardage is, wedges In gets a birdy And just that thought process, even though from the back to I think only three thirty from the back team, so as the dog legs so that the straight carry the number of players may well go for it from the back of the back t even before we move
it up a few yards. So just how that plays I think will be fun to watch every round, both from the back team and if we move it up the team.
And obviously you're not on the ground yet, you're going there shortly after, you know, in a day or two, and you have no clue what the weather's going to be. Can we get a prediction for winning score from you?
Well? No, to me, that doesn't matter.
I think it's whatever the best players want it to be, and hopefully we set it up. I think it does no win, they'll certainly score well because they're the best players.
In the world. I would hope that if you.
Give the best players in the world good conditions with no win, they should score well. So but if we get a twenty thirty mile an hour win one or more of the days, then just like any golf course, it's going to be tough.
It'll be challenging.
But I think I'm more hopeful that the players enjoy the test, enjoy the challenge. Hopefully there's lots of birdies, some eagles and boguis and double boguies that make it exciting and fun to watch and fun for the players and the CADI is to play, because that ultimately is if that's the case, I always say, always want people to come away from there saying, wow, that was sort of fun and I enjoyed playing even if I didn't
play well. It was a good challenge and it was there and yeah, I didn't play well, but that's okay. It was a fun week.
Ultimately, that's our aim. Despite all that's going on in the world.
That would be our aim as the players and caddies leave Harding Power Great.
Thanks so much for the time, Carrie, and really looking forward to watching the PGA in a couple of weeks here.
Well, thanks for having me look forward to it too, and I hope everyone enjoys enjoys watching the championship, and I hope we have a three whole playoffs to determine the weather.
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