I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
And when I find my ball in a brid egg Friday Egg, Frida Egg, Friday, Friday Bride Egg, Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course.
All Right, we're back for another episode of the Friday Egg Podcast, and UH we are happy to welcome our esteemed guest this week, Josh Gregory. Josh went back to back national championships as the head coach at Augusta State and was also more recently the head coach at s MU before now UH venturing into the professional golf world, where he serves as a coach for players such as John Peterson, Kelly Kraft, Henrik Norlander, and some other Web guys like Carlos Ortiz. Josh, thanks for coming on.
Thanks so much for having me. I really really appreciate it.
Yeah, definitely. I think it'd be great if you gave us a little bit of uh, you know, your your background, your story, how you got into golf, and you know your playing career and then how you got into coaching.
I started at a young age. I started. I think I've got pictures of me when I was eighteen months old with my dad playing. And I was an only child, so I was spoiled rotten with love and grew up playing every sport you know, kind of know the man and and kind of stuff with golf and baseball. Uh you know, played h you know, just right around the cart with my dad and play play all the time.
And the uh you know, we had a little we had a great course that I grew up in the Tennessee, a place called one Dyke Country Club, and uh they had thirty six holes and man an eighteen home par three course. So I could pretty much be dropped off and then spend all day out there. And that's how I spend every day in my summer. And uh it was. It was the best place in the world as a kid to grow up and play go off. And I went on to play uh college go off at SMU
and Dallas, and then played under Hank Haney. Uh he was he was our college coach, and and learned learned, learned a learned a ton from him about how to play the game, learned a ton about work ethic. It's probably one of the hardest working, you know, working guys.
I've I've ever seen in my entire life. And I learned a ton about the game, learned a ton about discipline, of course, management, UH, swinging, et cetera, et cetera from him, and UH tried to play a little bit perfectually after that for about two years, and UH quickly realized that I wasn't good enough. I didn't know. I didn't really know that the hooter shore and played on the weekend. I pretty much finished most of my events on Friday. So I had a lot of weekends off, which is
not something good of the profession of the world. But you know, I physically I was probably I was. I was plenty good enough. I just didn't have the mindset. I didn't have the belief. I didn't have the selfishness, quite honestly, to be great. I wasn't about it the wrong way. I worked really hard.
Uh.
I spent a lot of hours trying to perfect technique and perfect the golf swing and just doing things that weren't very productive or conducive to good play. And UH, so I learned a lot about coaching from all my mistakes. So I knew that I quit playing after two years, that coaching was the only thing I ever had in the back of my mind that that I wanted to do, and I thought I could be pretty good at it. Little did I know how hard it was to be
a Kyle golf coach. I had no idea, uh the work that went on behind the scenes, the recruiting, the fundraising, paperwork, all that stuff. I just assumed you showed up a practice at one o'clock and tried to help you guys get better and and go from there. But uh, fortunately I got a great break. I was hired by coach Richard psyche Adency stayed as a Hall of famer who's retiring this year. The job was open and I interviewed
and was lucky enough to get it. And I was the assistant men of women's golf coach at North Carolina State, working for both programs. That kind of started my career, and I was so indebted to them to give me a chance because had they not taken a chance on a twenty four year old and really didn't know what college what coaching was all about, I would have never had that college coaching career I had, and let alone being able to do what I'm doing now. But Coach
Sikes taught me everything about how to treat people. He was the best at it. And he said, the best thing in the world is being called a coach. The best thing in the world is you know, fifteen twenty years down the road, one of your former players will pick up the phone and say, hey, coach, how you're doing. And I learned a lot from that mentality. You love your players first, You take care of him first. I'm not afraid to say have I'm trying to become their
friend first before I became their coach. And whether that's right or wrong, that's how my personality works. And I think that's the way the best coaches are to get their respect as their friend and as their body before they can ever ever trust you with how to really make make the golf game better. And that was I learned that from him, and UH it's kind of been my philosophy throughout my coaching careers. Loved your guys first, coaching second, and UH that that's and everything else kind
of falls as fall into place. That was kind of after my couple of years in n C State, I went to UH was fortunate to get hired at a state UH and he got us to Georgia and coached there for nine years, had had some had some really great players, really uh, really cool plays to coach one of the probably a few universities in the world that actually gets college golf and college golf actually actually means something. It was our It was that we were the only
Division one sport at that school. It was the Vision two school competing and uh Division one. Then the women's golf, and we were fortunate enough to win back to back national championships in twenty ten in twenty eleven, and went on went on from there to back my mom a modern SMU and coached for three years and kind of
rebuilt the program there and got it going. And then now I'm out on my own and trying to see if I can uh make a bigger difference in the game of golf coaching on a full time, you know, full full basis. Whether it's the best players in the world like Patrick Reid or John Peterson, Kellycraft, or whether it's a ten year old kid just trying to get better, it's still the same principals apply, and I'm very thankful to get to do what I do, uh every day.
I've never really had a real job. I've gotten to coach every day, but because gotten to the golf course every day, and now I get to do that all day long. Yeah, and I'm very very thankful for it and trying to do it a little different way, and you know, just trying to coach and coach the way I would want to be coached. So so far it's going great, and I'm really lucky to work with a bunch of cool guys that buy in, and so far they're getting a lot better.
Yeah, that's uh. I think, you know, from what I heard on when I heard you talk earlier and what interested me and bringing on, I I'd love to hear more about your approach and how it's a little bit different from you know, the traditional strict instruction approach and more of a coaching approach.
Yeah. You know, I have the utmost respect for for pure instructors. And I've been around I've been fortunate enough to be around Butch Harmon. I've seen David Ledbart teach, I've seen Hank Kaney obviously has been around him a lot. I'm sticking Who's Here's a you know, top own instructor,
very close a friend of mine. Brian White guys like that, and I think the world of as as great you know, great instructors and Brandy Smith people like that that I've been around, learned so much from them, But I wouldn't label myself, you know, as an instructor. I mean, obviously there is a teaching instruction component to any form of coaching, and and there is, you know, some some teaching instruction to what I do. Uh, But that's not that's not
my first love. That's not my first fashion. My coaching and figuring out how to make guys better. And you know, that's that's that comes with understanding personality first, and that's where my job begins, coaching to through a relationship. You have to have a relationship with each player you coach, and you have to understand what drives them. You know, some kids need to kick the butt, some kids need to pad on the back, and you've got to figure
out You've got to figure out that first. You've got to figure out what motivates them, what drives them. And that's how I always coached. In college. I didn't I didn't believe in college golf at the team sport. I think coaches you believe in as a team sport and listening to the boat because it's not. It's an individual sport. It just happens to be wrapped in a team format,
and I coached individuals. I figured if I got the best out of out of each individual, each of my eight or nine kids on the team, then the team and then the team would take care of itself at the end of the day. Yes, you have to be a team off the course, and yes you you're the team. Chemistry is terribly important, but it really means nothing when you're in the golf course. You've got to take care of yourself. You got to be selfish, You've got to
be an individual and do what's best for you. And that's kind of how I evolved my coaching theory of coach coaching each individual to the best best of my ability, and that means there's different plans, there's different honestly different rules for different kids as well. So carrying that over and into my kind of new jobs, as you know, being being a golf coach, a full time golf coach, not a college golf coach. I was really I was. I wasn't sure quite honestly. I knew there was a
need for coaching at junior level. I knew there was a need for pure coaching. At the collegiate level, I knew there was, but I wasn't so certain on the professional level. I thought it could work, I really did, but I wasn't certain. And I was fortunate enough to get a call from Patrick Reid about a year and a half org or so, and I coached him in college, and he called me and wanted me to help him out and work with him, and he had some great
success last year. He went from twenty third in the world to seventh, and I think kind of twenty out of thirty two events worldwide finished in the top ten. So it really validated that that there was a need for coaching, and you know, we didn't there were probably ninety five percent of what what I did for him and what I do with my guys today is is
practice plans. How to structure your practice, you know, spending equal times in all four phases of the game full swing, uh, business way, just chipping, chipping, pitching, bunker and then putting. And then in addition to that, not not spending all of your time and technique. You're doing a lot of competitive practice out of one ball work just essentially making making making practice fun, making it mean something.
Uh.
You hear guys say all the time, how how hard they work. Well, coach working hard. I'm working hard, but I'm not getting you better. Well, clearly you're not working at it in the best way. You're not working at it in an effective way. So it's my job as a coach to to figure out what is the most effective way for that player. And every player has different plans, every player has different ways we go about it. But uh, I'm trying to make it as simple as possible. You look,
you look at the players strengths and weaknesses. Uh, whether I'm met with John Peters, and what does Kelly Kraft when we first started working. I mean, you look, you look at the strengths and weaknesses and and and you go from there and you analyze that this you know, and it amazed me that, you know, some of these guys on the PGA tour really didn't know where they where they ranked in comparison to their peers in some
of the stats. And and that's my job. My job is, as I as I tell them, your job is to swing the club. My job is to provide the plan provide the pass provide the knowledge for you to to get better. And your job is to show up swing the club. And that's what I love doing. I love the structure of it. I love coaching, the teaching the short game. That's probably what it would be my strength at the teachers from one hundred and twenty yards and end really getting guys to practice in an effective way.
But you know, I have different roles for every guy. Some guys I'm their swing coach as well. I understand, uh, the golf swing, I understand it. But my job is not to understand everything about Boston. That's not my love and my passion. My job is to understand the players that I coach, understand their golfswing and understand how to get the best out of their golfswing and understand Uh.
You know, I have kind of a simple theory. It's, you know, we all get so wrapped up in technique and learning, you know, trying to fix you know, fix fix your shots by technique, technique technique, uh, And I kind of a little different approach. I try to get guys to hit shots to fix technique. I mean, if you're hitting, if you're hitting, you know, if you're if you're overlooking the golf ball or hitting hitting high drawls or whatever. The opposite of that would be a low fake.
So always trying to find the happy medium and learning to fix techniques by hitting shots. And I think it's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Uh. You know, so far it's working pretty good for the guys. But again, it starts with the relationship. It starts with that trust factor, uh, and being all and knowing that you know these you know the guys. You love your guys, and they know you love them, and you're doing everything you can't possible to help them get better.
Yeah, it's interesting. It's uh, you know, you coach individuals, but your job is to work as a team with your guys. So I'm kind of curious how with different players you adapt, and more specifically different personalities you adapt your plans and how you structure of practice.
Well, if you look at the two guys I'm working with most exclusively right now, and Kelly Krapton and John Peterson, I mean they're they're they're polar opposite personalities. I mean, John Peterson is very high strung. Uh, he can be a little a little uh, hot on the collar on the golf courts, his attitude sometimes get get in the way.
Uh.
So I know with him that I have to be pretty hard on uh. There there's times when the I've caddy for him a couple of times and when we're working together. He he told me from day one, you need to be hard on me, otherwise this isn't gonna work.
Uh.
And that's not necessarily my strength. I don't. I don't enjoy being the back guy. I don't. I don't like that. That's definitely my weakness. But I know with him that if I don't, if I'm not that way with him, I'm not gonna get the most out of him. And you have to be hard on him. You have to, you know, get into face with an attitudes, act acting, acting, acting poorly. But you also have to build him up
when he when he's doing the right things. Uh. You know, Kelly, for an example, is a much more laid back personality, extremely talented, uh, extremely aggressive and how he goes about playing the game. And I've had to you know, but he didn't have a real good a real good plan, a really good understanding of what he really needed to do to work on Uh, he has always had a great bloss swing. He does some great work with with his with his swing coach, Troy Ditton. And that's what's great about.
What I do.
I can you know, I have no no ego in this deal. Is that does that it means involving a swing coach, another coach that is, you know, I'm I'm here to make the player better and I'm lucky with with Kelly that we have. I have a great release relationship with Troy Ditton and that he he knows. Quantoski is one of the few coaches that that has is humble enough to understand that, hey, we're all in this to help Kelly get better. And if that means he's doing his part and I'm doing my part, then and
Kelly gets better, then it's a women's situation. There's there's not a lot of coaches that would kind of check their ego at the door and allow that to happen, you know, and they want to have everybody kind of wants to have controlled everything. It's not my deal. I'm all in it to help help the player get better, whether that's me doing it the leader, whether that's involving
somebody else in the team after it as well. But you know, more specifically with with Kelly, I mean he needs he needed structure, He needed a lot of short game help. He was you know his stats where he was out bid the top one fifty in almost every short game CATE category, and uh, he's slowly improve into that and you can see see the results are starting to click and finishing twenty twenty first, twenty eighth, twenty seventh, and second in his last last four out of five efense. So, uh,
you know, he need a structure. He needed to be told how how good he was. Both he and Gone are very similar personalities and that they are not afraid. They both have the belief that they can be one of the best in the world. But but candidly, they just didn't have the full game to match up with that belief. And now hopefully in helping them develop a full game to where there is no weakness in their
game that can match up with that belief. So when they when they're in the Sunday late accident periods, they're not going to be afraid. And I think that's showing that. You know, John's has had the fifteenth and twelfth this year and was in the last group at Phoenix, which is a big step for him, and Kelly finished second last week was a big step for him as well to kind of validate the work that we've been doing.
But more importantly, you know, get that confidence that you need to feel like, hey, I belong with the best of the world.
So with your guys, they're mostly you know, you know under thirty, you've got a stable of web guys and you've got nor Lander craft Reed who's obviously a world class web player. Peterson, would you say that inside one hundred and twenty yards is where the biggest kind of difference between the college and pro game is or how how would you compare the two.
I think there's shoot, there's two things that that are the difference. I think clear clearly, I would say probably three things to be safe there. They're misses off the team. Guys on tour you know, very rarely hit it in the job, they very rarely hit penalty shots. Guys at college golf, you know, they they they're they're missed. It was a little bit greater players on tour miss it
much and much better spots. Uh, there's no doubt there wi the wedge play from one hundred and twenty yards and end is so much better at the PGA Tour level than the collegiate level. And then I think the final difference if you if you look at if you look at that the best putters in the world are really good from six to twelve feet almost almost, whether it's Brad Sedeger, whether it's Patrick Greed, whether it's Jordan's Speed, whether it's Jason Day last year and maybe the best
putting year of all time. Uh, they're really good from six and twelve feet. They don't three button, they make and they make their six to twelve footers. That is that is the biggest difference that you know, everybody on tour pretty much makes it. You know from thirty four and five feet and from fifteen to twenty feet you
know they're making percentages are pretty similar. But from six to twelve feet is where you really see, Uh, the brand Senators, the Jordan's piece, those guys of the world, Patrick Greed, the world really separate themselves from the rest. So you know, a lot of the practice, the practic is in the games I do. You know, our are based on PGA Tour stats and based on the player strengths and weaknesses, and we combine those and develop a lot of games and competitions to try to simulate what
they're going to do out on tour. And I think that's where the guys really enjoy themselves. I mean, that's, let's face it. You don't practice to practice, you practice to be able to And I'm trying to make practice very competitive, to make it very intense. You know, you know we're gonna be out there for three hours. Let's really get after it. Let's make it intense. Let's make it. You know, when you leave, I want you to be
mentally tired. I want you to be physically tired. I want you to be mentally exhausted and say, hey, we got something out of today. You know, here are our goals. Here was what we accomplished. Here, Here was the stats in our games. Here was our wedge proximities as a wholes. Here's how many parts we made from from six to twelve seats. You know, all those things. Let's keep track of it, keep a drummer of it. Do things that are really you know, tracking your progress so we're not
just out there putting in the hours. Because everybody works hard. Everybody on the PGA tour works hard. There's nobody that's out there just to put the talent alone. But instead of working hard, let's work effectively. And that's how my kind of word I use a lot. My guys probably get tired of hearing me say that. But let's let's work effectively. I don't care how hard you work, but let's let's work effectively.
What what are some of your kind of favorite drills that you guys do and you know, do you do?
You? You know? Do it?
Do you usually have a group of guys out there practicing for these sessions or you know, what do you do if you're working alone with a guy? Uh?
You know, it's again, it's all it's all related to what's going on in their game. I mean, there's still there's still several things that are kind of across the board that we do. I mean, you know, I'm a
we do a lot. We do a lot, you know, for example, on putting, we're doing a lot of a lot of a lot of putty drills, a lot of speed drills, you know, with five balls and putting from maybe starting to ten feet twenty feet, thirty feet, forty feet, fifty feet and always doing something different, randomizing the practice, making sure that uh you know, the only time you should ever be hitting the same pot twice candidly is if you're doing doing any form of technical work other
than that every pot ship led, full swing, whatever it may be, every shot should be, should be different, because that's what you're gonna get on the golf course. Do a lot of speed work with five dolls from different distances, Do a lot of uh you know, one of my one of my favorite games that we do is you simply do fifty puts. You do fifty puts from three
to twelve feet. You do five pots for meat station, five spots around the hole, and see how many maysan PGA two or ever says you should make thirty two out of fifty, uh from from from those fifty pots, and and just trying to do that to where it's simulating pressure. I mean, you're you know, you start missing, if you get a little nervous, you get a little frustrated, You got you gotta fight and through it. You kind
of try to kind of stick it out. So just you know, it's what I'm trying to do with these guys, and what I'm trying to coach them to do to get and do it when they're on their own. The best players in the world do the same things every game. And the best, whether it's in business, whether golf. You know, you write things down, you hold yourself accountable. You do the same things over and over. I mean, I can't you know. You always hear the stories about how many
golf balls Bja Seeing had during his prime. He was one of the best bass strikers on tour. Well, he did the same drills day in and day out. He had alignment ride behind, and he had a glove under his left arm. He had a water bottle just for the rider of the golf boss. So he made sure the club was exited on the proper on the proper plane. Well, that's why he became a great bass riker. It wasn't because he was always searching for any things to get
the same things over and over. And that's what you know, I'm trying to do with these guys in their practice habits and in there the way they're you know, whether it's the way they're swinging the club was or what we're doing in our in our chipping, pitching, wedging, probating technique, whatever it may be. We're doing the same things over and over and over again with small variations to still keep it fun, still keep it fresh. But the best do the same things day, day in and day out.
Yeah, I think. I mean it's like anything what I did.
I was constantly searching for, searching for, going around in circles, and I think without the right guidance, I think that's where the coaching, the coaching element is really is seeing some success and seeing that it's needed out there. Uh. And sometimes, honestly, as a coach or as an instructor, you have to learn to shut up as well. You have to learn to be quiet and just just let your guy go, because I think too many times as coaches and instructors were torn and always wanted to feel
like we're saying something or changing something. And you've got to have enough confidence of what you're doing and what the process of what you're doing, and sometimes you just gotta be quiet that if things are good, hey, let's just go with it, let's play a roll. So I told Kelly Craft earlier today, clearly clearly what but what he's doing is work. So this is the time. This in the time to make changees and search for ways to win. This is this is the time to just
keep doing exactly what we're doing. Monsitor chaing what what's going on? And you know what, you're gonna put himself in in that position enough times and hopefully hopefully those
went went black. It's but it's not the chant time to to search for for how to get better because clearless work work with John Peterson earlier today, you know, we had a great three hour short game session and we literally did the same same girls, same same same games that we do almost every time when we when we practice, and even do the same things on the road.
And uh, I think that's we're also trying to get players to understand that you you practice at home, you prepare on the road, and then there's a big difference. There's a big difference to that. And then that's that's where I think too many guys have been too much time practicing on the road in searching for things. And suppose that's the time to prepare for the golf course or on the golf course, stick to the drill, stick to the games that that work for you and go from there.
That's interesting. You know, I write a lot about golf courses and architecture, and I'm kind of curious how you guys go about, you know, kind of breaking down a golf course and developing a strategy for specific holes.
Good question. Again, it's been on the player.
You know.
John Peterson is a phenomenal driver ball is one of the better drivers drivers the ball Tour. So he's gonna driver almost at every hole because because that that that's his strength.
Uh.
You know, something that I've worked with with Kelly on pretty hard is understanding, Uh, he's a very aggressive player,
but he sometimes too is too aggressive with the wrong clubs. Uh, learning learning that you know from it from one hundred and one hundred and twenty yards and n or one hundred and thirty yards and then we've got to get so good with all four of his ledges that there's not a flag that he can't go at that if you want to shoot those scores, we've got to hit those closes and understanding what you know, getting so good from all those yards with all with all four of
his wedges, that he's choosing choosing the club based on what that shot calls for, not what club, but he feels the most comfortable hitting and there's a big difference in that, and so that's that's where, uh, the strategy
comes in. And also understanding that with a six iron from two hundred yards, you know, average proximity the hole is about thirty to thirty from their four feet on the VGA Tour, that hitting the six iron to thirty feet is okay, and it's okay to hit it to the fat side of the green, and it's okay just
to make a nice easy far from there. And that's something that he was kind of super aggressive in his game, going at too many flags with six irons and quite honestly not being aggressive enough with his ledges or not having enough shots with ledges to truly to truly get as proximity the whole closer so we can have more chances at Bertie's also now he's you know, both of those guys are developing more and more short game, better and better short game skills so they can go at
more flags. Patrick Greed, as good as his short game is, he can go at every flag you want to, because the short game is this game is so sound, it's so solid that there's not a flag he's not afraid of. But until you get that point to where your short game is sound enough, you've got to play little more concernis you've got to play at your strings and not put yourself in positions that you don't have the shots to recover from. So again, cater to each guy's game, cater to each guy's uh.
You know ability, Yeah, I think you know.
At that level, overall goals, overall goal is getting to where there is not a weakness in those four physical areas. Is a game full swing, wedging, hippy, pitching, bunker and putting that there really isn't a weakness if they're sound in all areas, so they're not really happen to having to play away from continuing in those areas. But if one area is struggling the other, the others can can take care of the rest.
Yeah, I imagine inside one hundred and twenty yards for these guys that you can't have a bad number and you can't have a shot, you can't hit.
Yeah, and you know you always hear, well, I have the bad numbers between their numbers whatever it may be. And there are certain numbers of guys don't like. But uh, that's why you work on your wedges from all those different yardages with all three or four of your wedges. So you know, like last week of double the greens were so soft, their float from front to back and
a lot of back flags. If you didn't have the ability to flight in the golf ball and just kind of have it, you know, floating a little bit, you're going to be ripping it back off the front of other green. So learning to again, learning to choose the club based on what the shot requires as opposed to just using the club on which one he feel most comfortable with. And that's that's kind of the essential goal there. From from and then learning around the greens, learning to
chip and pitch with different clubs as well. I mean, there was a couple of cool stories, you know, a couple of cool chances this weekend when when Kelly had long bunker shots and we've been working on learning to hit fifty twos and fifty six is out of different lies, different type types of bunkers, different types of sand, and he was able to execute those shots this weekend when before he would have probably just chosen to sixty three wedge and hit it to maybe fifteen twenty feet and
not been able to get up and down and you know John Peters the previous week and Phoenix when I was chatting for him, he had had a pitch shot in the seventeenth hole and kind of a dicey pitcho and kipped it up there at about eight inches And all they said was, coach, all I can think about is how many times I've hit this a practice this week? And that's you know, that's what you coach for those those moments are pretty cool.
Yeah, that had to be awesome with it going on the bag as a coach, you know, how how do you have to kind of change your approach as as the caddy and you know, being the looper and you know, as you said earlier, I imagine a lot of times it's it's about kind of shutting up and carrying the bag.
H Yeah, it is. I mean it's I have the utmost respect for caddies after doing them, Gosh, I always do, but I mean more so down it's hard work. It's hard we work to just stay up. Those guys walk fast, especially when you're writing buckers and two and whatever. It's tough. But yeah, you do have to flip your role a little bit. You have to kind of uh but still I think the best coach, the best caddies in the world would be awesome coaches. I really do, and and
and the same same thing. You know. That way, the best coach in the world would also be offesome caddies because it's a very similar job. Uh, you forget it, it's very similar. So you have to you have to know when to say something. You have to know when to let your player event Uh. You have to also know when to tell them, Hey, it's time to go play off, shut up and let's go.
Uh.
I think that's the key part of being being being a good caddy, a good coach. And I think you know, you also have to know when to give, when when too much, when, when when to give information and when not to give information.
Uh.
You know, when when a player has got a green light flag and from one hundred and forty five yards it's a perfect wedge, there's not really not a whole lot that needs to be said. But when it's two hundred yards to a tuck flag with water on the right and the ridge of the left or whatever it may be, that's what hey, you gotta be You gotta be confident off in your delivery to say Hey, hey, bro, this is this is a six iron twenty five feet left right there, and we're gonna We're gonna too fought
into the ball. So I think it's it's a it's a hard deal. I'm learning learning to be a better caddy when needed, but uh, it's fun. I think as a coach you learn so much more being inside the ropes and being there and understand what they're what your players think, and what they're going through, and you're able to coach them way more effectively after you have that experience. And that's why as a coach when I'm on the road,
I spend a lot of time there Washington Play. I'll never go to a tournament and leave on a Wednesday and just unless I just have to. But I'm a big believer in watching guys play, whether it's all weekend or whether it's maybe just s Thurshing Friday, because that's what I learned the most. You're gonna you get what you see on the range, what you see in practice round. A lot of times it's a lot different than what
you see in the competition. At the end of the day, my job is to help the shoot the best score they possibly can. So if I'm not watching them in competition and not learning helping them learn how to manage the courts better learn, you know, evaluate what they're doing right and wrong. But honestly, I'm not doing my job. That's what I'm hired to do is to help to
help the shoot the lowest coore possible. So, uh, I think it's extremely important as coaches and structures whatever it may be, uh to stick around and watch your guys compete.
So you got to let us say, did you make any you know, hack caddy moves like you know, did you did you get any bad looks?
Oh? Yeah, fortune of the caddies I've been with so far have all been cool, and I've explained to them on the first team, Look, I don't do this full time. I love doing I'm gonna do my best and I'll try not to screw up, and I'm probably gonna uh stand in the wrong place. I'm probably gonna forget to rake their bocker when it's when it's my turn to rake their bunker or whatever it may be. But yeah, I dropped the bag once, fortunately one in somebody's backs thing.
I've definitely dropped out with the cover that that's that's normal for me. Usually have a set over under how many I'm gonna drop in to day? I didn't race, I didn't you know when the confusing part is sometimes when you're supposed to rap rap the other player's bucker or not. Obviously understand I gotta rape mind, but when you gotta rak somebody else's buker. I've messed that one up a couple of times as well. But fortunately no no major mistakes that have cost anybody any shots or
any dirty, dirty looks this yet. And I just try to try to do the best I can. But the caddies out there are cool. So they're they're they're fun to hang out with and they're fun. But you learn a lot, You learn a lot about they're good about showing, the showing the rookies, Uh what what the heck to do?
Yeah, it's h They're like a brethren out there. It's uh, I'm curious with it being Riviera Week and you know the tenth hole. Just yeah, it's a divisive little part. For how do you have guys like Kelly Craft? How how's the strategy different for Patrick Reid compared to Kelly Craft? Or is it the same.
I think it depends on the whole location. For one, I think it seems to be an Honestly, I've never been to Riviera. I'm just obviously watching on TV, and it's it seems to be you know, the base on the flag, whether whether or not you could go forward or not. But then again it also is is is catered to a players play a player style. I mean it's it'd be it'd be hard to take the driver out of a certain players. Players see if that's there, if that's their best club, they're bagging to have the
ReBs of nature. But if also if you've got to you've got a player such as Zach Johnson or somebody who's whose incredible, incredible within your wedges, and that's the strength of the game. It's like when he won the Masters, he laid up on all on all sixteen par fives for the week at one and I'm sure there were numerous times when he hit a fixed of green but
knew that was strict. It's it's something that you have a prime example of a couple of weeks ago, Caddy for john we were he had two hundred and forty two yards to the fifteenth hole, at Phoenix the par five the kind of the island green, which is sounds like an absolute no brainer to go for it, because it's a pretty big green. You've got more persson around there, and as good as he hits it, he's going to hit it on land, you know, nine out of ten times.
But honestly he did. He didn't have a club forard. He carries his foreign about two o eight two ten and if you missed the groove loaw, it's going to be in the water short. But he carries his five with about two forty and the greens the greens were firm, and so if he hits that probably goes a long which is going to be almost an impossible pitch. And so we didn't have a club for it, and talked him in to lay it up because now he has a good enough edge game. Before he wouldn't have had
a good enough wedge game. It's still confident up that he could get it up and down, and so we laid up with a bussy wedge and then he hit a same wedge to sixty seven feet and made the pub for Birdy and and make berdie the kind of a different way than he would have ever done it before. So again it's playing for your strengths. I think you gotta again you evaluate each player and what's good for them. I mean, uh, and and then also looking at the
whole location. Where's your miss where where it gives you the best chance to get up and down? Is this a better wedge flag or is this as a green light flag that if we can miss anywhere up you know, up around the green, we could still give it up and down. And then obviously you go overall by nature, I would say, I'm very aggressive as a coach. And and and that's why I was in college. I wanted to let my players play. I wanted to let them
sometimes sometimes you have to make mistakes. Sometimes you have to make you have to even fail to to learn. But you but you better go down slinging. I mean, these scores are getting lower and lower, and courtant that can build these courses as big and as long as they want to. But it's not checking the scores at Also, you better be pretty aggressive, pretty aggressive in nature and trying to make Berdi's if you're gonna win out there.
Uh.
But still it's it's an overall philosophy. And they sound contradictory, but it's not. I mean, it's still you know, very very boring golf. And you're gonna make Kelly played last week shut fifteen under and make only five vogues all week, which is which is pretty good in some of those conditions. It's just a very boring, simplistic way of trying to trying to map out the golf course and trying to make golf as streuss as stress free as it possibly can.
And that goes back to your practice. That goes back to your practice and being prepared in all areas of your game. So there really isn't is the leaks.
So something you alluded to with John and in the gap with like you know, four iron to five wood, I feel like with the you know, fourteen club limit, you're going to have either you know, it seems to be you either have less wedges and more long clubs and you don't have that gap in the long clubs, or you have more wedges and you deal with a gap like John has. Like I'm I'm perfect example, I have the I have a three iron and then a three would and I just have this gap there. How
do you kind of coach that? What what's your overall philosophy.
Again, it's individualized. I love I love the four wedge system because I think the majority of it you're gonna hit. You're gonna hit way more shots that are in around and around the ball. From one hundred and one hundred and we'll say, from you know, around the greens to fifty to one hundred and thirty yards, then you're gonna hit from two hundred and ten to two hundred and
forty yards. From two hundred and ten to two hundred and forty yards, you may only hit three to four shots and around the golf, uh that are here from that distance. So I think you can get away with halfing a little bit of a gap there because it's not needed as much. But you might hit. You might
hit ten to twelve shots, if not more. Uh, from chipping, pitching, chipping, pitching, bunker to that fifty to one hundred and twenty yards kind of distance, wedge distance, wedge around, distance from wedges and around. Sorry I can't talk and around the golf. So to stat say, you know, you should have as many clubs uh from that from that yard is as possible as opposed to having so many clubs at the top of your bag that are from two hundred and
two forty. Now, again that's all structured upon a player. Uh, you got a guy that doesn't hit it, that doesn't hit it really far, that's not gonna have as many pledges, then he might need a couple of extra clubs at the top. Obviously having it, you know, for example, in John's gap, having a gap from two ten to two forty is a little bit too much. I wish we could find a way to to probably straight you know, either maybe put it in a three iron or strengthen
his four iron a little bit. But he loves the four and so much that it's it's a great club for him, and he's very good with that. He needs it on a lot of there's a lot of two two hundred and fifteen yard par threes on tour, so at the club that he really needs. But that gap is not great. But at the same time, I would rather have the clubs at the bottom, at the bottom of the bag. So we're really really condoling our wish.
So from two hundred to two hundred and ten yards, if you make far on the whole, you've done a great job. But from one hundred and twenty yards, you better be averaging underbar.
That's a good way to put it. I think there are so many that's one of my complaints with modern golf courses, just too many high There are two hundred and two and twenty a par three.
Is so and I think that's the point of really getting guys to understand their stats. And that's when I when I sit down with them, that's one of my responsibilities is keeping up with their stats and keeping up with what's going well, what's not going what's not going well, so we can change the practice plans, so we can change how we how we're doing things, how we're working
on things. So it's it's it's constantly, it's constantly evolving on what's going well, with what's not not going well, and understanding getting them to understand that again, thirty and thirty thirty five feet from two hundred yards is okay. Twenty five feet from under twenty yards is not okay. But so it's uh, it's really it's been a really neat experience is to see, uh, you know, I love numbers. I'm a stat's guy. I love numbers, and I think
it's a large part of our game. I wish I would have done more of this when I what I tried to play and if I could have, you know, wish somebody when I was twenty twenty two, twenty three years of age where grabbed me by the collar and and and and showed me how to practice in a more a more effective wayer and in a better way than how I went about it.
So somebody, you know, without all of the stats like of a PGA Tour pro like, how do you approach it with like your web dot com guys that don't have as detailed and uh you know, advanced statistics.
Yeah, that's no fun for me as a coach because the PGA Tour does a does a really nice job of keep its stats and makes my job a lot easier. But with the guys that I work with on the web dot com tour, I mean a lot of it is is is asking them to keep to keep them on their own, you know, the ones that I think
are important, the ones that really helped me. Uh structure, you know, structure there there there practice and knowing what we really need to work on and knowing if we need to spend more time and technique or more time in the field based practice for whatever it may be, so ask them to do it on their own. And
also just constant communication. I mean, I'm a coach that I speak to my guys regularly, whether it's my text and it's my phone, uh, you know, my phone never never stops ringing, never stops texting, which is I guess it could the bad thing. I'm kind of an addicted to my job and addicted to uh to trying to help guys get better. But I think the communication, just having them, you know, honestly communicate what's really going on in their game does because staff don't lie, never don't lie.
You can't hide behind them when I know when whether it's been meetium with with with John or Kelly and shows him, hey, you're you're not ranked the top one fifty in any short game category well before this year, you know, what do you do? We gotta work with this and it's uh, but it's cool to see the
results play off. It's cool to see John Peterson this year ranked fourth and totally you know, granted it's only been seven it's only played in seven events, but he's fourth with total scrambling on tour, which it shows as Mark is paying off Kelly. The last few weeks, it's been above seventy five percent crammed in each of his weeks that he's had success, so U it shows, it shows that it's playing off. But yeah, I sure wish the web dot Com Tour with five the way just
to keep better to keep better stats. But I understand what the uh the band power and the lack of volunteers that it's hard to do. But just just getting my guys to give me the information that I need from them, and I don't expect them, uh honestly, I don't expect them to come up with the plans. Again, their job is between the club, provide me with the information, and it's my job to set up, set up everything else so they can just show up and show up to off.
So of all the guys, whether they're on TGA Tour, Web dot Com Tour or if they're in college, like, what's the one guy that you would most want to work with that you're not currently working with.
That's a that's a tough question. I might get might get in trouble for answering that one. I mean, gosh, that that that's a tough one. I mean, who wouldn't want to work with Tiger and try to try to take on that. I mean, but unfortunately I think it's help is UH is his biggest detriment right now. I mean,
there's there's Gosh. I mean that we play with but we played with Bohostler last last week UH in a practice rounding Kelly played with him in the in the two rounds, and that kids really impressive and it has an absolute ton up ton of ton of upside and be pretty pretty cool to UH. I don't know who his coach is and not, but whoever it is is obviously doing doing an incredible job because he's UH, He's
he's pretty impressive. So I don't have anybody out there, but I mean, there's I'm I'm confident enough and I feel like I can help. I can help guys get better. But I'm so happy with the guys that I work with and love love to work with them. And as I've told everybody, I'm not looking for players. I look
to make it, make the ones I have better. UH If if helping the guys I have have success and and helping them get better at least to more guys, and then I'll be thankful for the opportunity, but to name one guy, gosh, I don't know, it's it's pretty cool. Just I'm so thankful and lucky that I get to be around the best players in the world. I been playing practice around with George Speed last week. Was pretty
awesome and the thickest brain see him. I mean the experiences I have with agree and and seeing one of the best best players in the world do his thing, and and and you know, I know he learned from me, but I learned just as much to learn just as much from him. Uh. But so that's uh, you know, being around Bubba Watson last year, simon watching him hit shots. If you think that I never thought were unmatchable. Uh was a golf ball. I mean the amount of curve
he could go on the golf balls. Pretty cool, he would He would be a fun one to to be around just because of his ability, Uh, how he how he hit shots, how he thinks would be pretty cool. But now just to just to be around those guys as awesome. I still get amazed every time I walk
up and down the range. How lucky I am to get to what to get to do, what I get to do, Whether it's sitting and watching watching Zach Johnson at Wedges, whether it's watching Adam Scott sitting the golf club, whether it's watching you know, Patrick Greed hits a golf ball, whether it's watching Jordan Speed and pot of me. Those are pretty cool experiences. This guy I would never go
to my wildest dreams. I would never thought I ever win two national championships, and I darn shirt never thought I would be sitting the ranks with the best players in the world and being able to help some of them try to win PGA Tour events. And I'm thankful, thankful to get to do it every day, and hopefully it's going to keep helping my guys better get better, and hopefully then they can win a few events and I have awesome careers. See what happens.
Yeah, so you coached Bryson in college and I'm fascinated by Dishambo. I think I think his sponsors don't do him well because, you know, anything he's trying, they kind of turn into a product. But like in general, I, you know, always trying to get better, and I'm I'm fascinated to hear a little bit about what it was like to coach a guy like that.
Yeah, one of the coolest experiences of my life.
It was.
It was very challenging. He was he was tough to coach because it was so kind of different in polar Opson than anybody else I've ever been around, and polar ops of my personality. But I think it was a good It was a good a good fit. He gave me a really neat compliment when he when he signed and chose to come to some U and he had some great, great opportunities which Stanford looked at UCLA, looked at Org, and look at a few other places for
programs that were that were much better than us. When when I first took over the job, and I'll never forget to ask him, I said, why did you choose us? Why didn't you choose that SMU? Why don't you want me to be your coach? And uh, he gave a great response. He just said, you you were the only coach that would let me be me, which was a pretty cool compliment. I wasn't gonna he knew I wasn't
gonna try to change. He knew I was gonna try to make him better and I was gonna challenge him uh, to get better and to see things sometimes in a different light. But I wasn't going to try to change the person he is. I mean, he's he's he's a scientists, the physicist, he's uh, he's uh, the ultimate, the ultimate, I guess, mechanical. On the golf course, he's he's a robot.
He's trying trying to find perfection at all times. Uh. But that doesn't mean that he still doesn't have feel and doesn't have knowledge of how to play the game. And I think that's where, you know, is the combination of his ability to swing the golf club and understanding what he does and his belief. What I learned from him the most is what he believes in his way, probably more than anybody I've ever seen, and doesn't necessarily think it's it's right or wrong for anybody else. That
knows it's right for him. And I think our combination of me challenging him to try different shots, to learn how to practice it in a different way, to do some other things, really really worked well. And he's going to figure it out. I know he's going to a little bit of a little bit of a rough time right now. But what twenty three year old doesn't have some struggles on the PGA tour. I mean, this is all new, this is all new to him. It's it's new cities, it's new golf courses, it's new Uh, it's
it's it's a tough deal. It's not as easy as as people think. And the kids terribly talented, and he will figure it out because there's nobody that can outwork him.
And I think hopefully over time, you'll keep continue to evolve and and and and listen to some of those that are you know, guys out on tour that have some experiences that he doesn't have, and and combine his his knowledge of the game with some other knowledges of kind of how to play the game and get a better understanding of the things that have worked for some guys that have had had a ton of success. And I think, uh, people do that over time, and when he does, uh, he can he can be uh an
incredible player. But I love the fact that he's not afraid, not afraid to try things, not afraid to try to you know, the fact that he's putting you know, face on the fact that he's got all the clubs the same link. I mean, whether it's right or wrong. I mean, you gotta get the kid credit for trying it.
Uh.
And and he'll at some point he's as he's always told me when there was a couple of times when we talked about going to shorter wedges, because you know, it seems odd that you're hitting hitting wedges with the link of a seminar. You would think you would be better with shorter wedges. But and he would talk about it, and he would always kind of come back to me and say, coach, I'm gonna figure it out. And and
and he did figure it out. And he's developed and having a uh become a very you have a very nice short game with what's something that looks very very unnocks. So uh, he he's a special kid. And hopefully he'll, uh he'll he'll keep getting better. He's gonna keep maturing, gonna keep growing up, keep understanding what it takes for him to be great, and he will will figure out over time. So easy to be just fun. You don't.
You don't get to a point where you're when the n T a championship, when the US Amateur you know, tied for the Leason and and the masters. Uh, he's He's got a ton of belief in a ton of game, and it's just gonna take just takes a lot of reps out there and a lot of getting comfortable hard out there.
Yeah. I think he Uh, I think he'll play actually well this week. I think he is built for courses that require a little bit more thought, more strategy too, rather than you know, the bombing gouge stuff. So what, what's the craziest theory that he ever came to you with? Were there any you know, like you hear about bones having a veto for Phil when Phil has, you know, some crazy idea of a shot he's gonna pull off. Did you know, were there any ideas that you had to just hard veto.
I don't think I ever get gave him, gave him a heart beat up because I knew, I knew I would lose his respect and as his coach if I ever did let him try it and kind of figure it out on himself. Uh, he did ask some weird theories. I mean, obviously, the the face on putting he's talked
about for a long time. He's always said that he that he was going to going to put that way, and I kind of looked at him like he was crazy, but at the same time that I know him well enough that that if it will either one work or if it doesn't work, he'll be smart enough to figure out that it doesn't work and he'll go back to to to putty conventional. But there were a few stories. I mean, he he would, he would. The very first time we were at a tournament, he wanted he wanted
me to start. He asked me to stop at the store and he needed to get some EPs salts, uh because he needed and asked, what are you talking about. I don't even know if that salt was. He wanted to test all of his golf balls to make I think it's to find where the center point of the golf balls and to make sure they're properly centered or something. I can't even explain it properly, but he would. He would know how to explained it much better than I do,
and I than I do. But he gets him in the water every night before he plays to try to find out what which golf balls are the right ones to use. So uh, but you know what, that's that's what he believes it. Yeah, and it's pretty uh, it's pretty cool. But uh, yeah, he's uh, he's a different cat, but he but he's a good he's a good, great kid at heart. And I hope he I hope he continues to to get better and better. You think he's got.
It's refreshing, it's refreshing. It's refreshing to see in this game because a lot of the game is, uh, you know, every everybody kind of does thing the same way. And you know, he's not not not not afraid to be different.
And I think probably over time you combine that ability of not not not being afraid to be different, but combining that with the ability to to learn from others and to learn that you know, there there are other guys that can that can really help him evolve as a player, combining his knowledge with their knowledge, and he can he can be he could be pretty special.
Yeah, I think he's gonna be a really good pro for a really long time. So much so much talent. Uh. So I talked with you know, my buddies on the mid Am Circuit, which I like to call the Loser Tour, and uh and we talk about you know guys that made it and you know why we're sitting playing at some local Muni on a weekend, and uh, one thing we always come back to is like this irrational confidence that all these guys have. Do you do you think
that that is? You know, part of it, Like this just unbelievable self belief.
I think it's it's it's it's the confidence in their ability. And it's the one of the neatest things that is that I've seen. Even walking around with Jordan Speed last week to practice around him, his self talk is so impressive. I mean, you know, you probably hear he's a little emotion when he talked to himself, and he talks to Michael Scotty quite a bit on the on the golf course, but his self talk will never ever talk badly about about himself. He has the utmost belief.
You know.
I had a pretty good feeling he was gonna have a great week last week because he fled out set. I mean, I love these dreams, and those those dreams last week were awesome. There were some of the worst dreams I've ever seen. They were it was wet, it was their plan, they were bouncing, they were buppy. But he loved that because he knows he's a great putter and he fled out said, Hey, if I missed the
button this week, I know it's not me. I know he's just a dream and that that sounds arrogant, but it's honestly, it's a it's a factual statement in his mind. It's the way he believes. And so I think that's that's the thing. You've got to have that positive self talk and and and and and the concepts and and never you know, never beating yourself up, never telling yourself you're you're not any not any good at anything. And
that's something that is I wish I had that always. Uh, the best players I've ever coached, whether it's been Patrick reed Or or hind At Norlander or John Peterson or Telegraft or guys that just had successful college careers, Uh, they all had one thing in common that they believe that they're twice as good as they really are. Unfortunately, I believe that I was half as good as I really was, and that's about that's a bad quality. And that's why I was never as good a player as
I could have been. And that's why these guys are really good. And that's not arrogant. I mean, you can have east Embardley you've got to believe you're the best out there. You've got to be selfish, and you've got to be selfish with your time because it's a there's a lot going on out there. If you're not selfish with your time, it would be easy to get to get splayed in a lot of pulls in a lot of different directions.
Yeah, my my goal this year in tournament play is to never once tell myself I suck.
So you know, good luck with that one. I do that about every about every other hole, every hole. That's that's a tough truth. If you tell yourself that, then you're eventually gonna believe it. And that's uh, it's just it's it's a standard line, but it's it's the truth. You've got to and that's uh, the biggest one of my biggest, biggest jobs of these guys coaches is there's a lot of us the middle side involved with it.
And especially if i'm you know, I've ever caddy in but definitely, you know, definitely telling these guys constantly you know how good they are. Yes, you've got to be critical and you've got up you've got to point out what they've what they've got to work on. But Uh, one of the things I've always tried to stand by as a coach is is when you're coaching, when you're when you're giving a guy the structural criticism, you better point out the positive first. You point out the positive
positive first, then you can point out the negative. If you point out the negative first, they never hear the positive. You can tell it. You can tell a kid, hey, you you putt it, you put it really well, you put it great today, really really proud of it, you know, but you know, well, we've gotta what we've gotta work. When you're you're chipping a little bit today, Well, they they they hear that part. They hear the negative. If
we start with the negative first, they never hear the positive. Yeah, And that's a firm believer in that that you've got to got to build a guy out before you before you can never kind of bring him bring him down a little bit to make him realize what he's got to do to get better.
So, uh, you've touched on Henrik Norlander a couple of times, and you know, I've heard this leg and that he might be like one of the ten best ball strikers in the world.
Oh, that that's a you know, that's that's I wouldn't argue with that. Uh, he's like a second son to me. I coached him Upson College for four years and uh still I would consider myself one of his coaches, but mainly just just one of a really really close friend of his and we we talk. You know, it seems like almost daily. We're really close. And he's he can do things with a golf ball and I've seen very
very few do. He's very impressive from Tea Green. Uh. And now he's started he's starting to starting to really develop around the greens as well. And his cutting that is getting is getting so much better, and he's got a much better, uh way of practice. And he's done some great work with the ramone Wisconsin the perfect putter and and done some really good work. And as a kind of a play with with what he with what
he's doing now with his cutting, and he's getting getting better. Obviously, that show just showed with his results this year showed with his with his loss in the playoff. But let's and I expect him to look good things to him because he could from Peter Green, he's as good, he's as good as I've ever seen and uh, one of the one of the few guys in the world that I've ever been able to see it hit flight, it cuts, and most guys that that hit that it cuts hits
them all the way up in the air. And he can actually slide it down and control it with the fade. And it's uh, it's pretty it's pretty uh pretty specional watch. And he's he's started to be able to take take his game at home and take his game on the range to the actual course because he's always, you know, he's always had a little trouble kind of letting it go and playing without fear. And now that he's starting to understand how to let it go. And then that
that comes from comes results. When you start having results, at least the confidence, and then there's you can work where you can work as hard as you want and effectively as you want, but if you never have results, it's hard to have have confidence or full confidence. And uh, he started to get that. And hopefully he can get a few more starts in this year and and lock up a store card, which would be pretty quite an accomplishment without having any status this year. And but he
he he started to believe that he knows. He's always known he can win out there. I've always known he can went out there, but quite honestly, it was it was almost a little bit of false belief because he really hadn't had any results to back it up. And then now, you know, finishing second and see all and ever since then, it's kind of changed his whole mentality and whole belief and and now he has that validation to say, hey, I can get it done on Sunday
when it really matters. And I think you know, once he's in that position again, he's going to close the door.
Yeah, I mean he uh, he almost pulled that that thing off. That's kind of a crazy tournament out there.
Yeah. I still think if in that playoff, if you could have found a way to hit that six iron on on the green instead of in the bucker, that have been a good chance he might if anybody want that outride, We're definitely put a little bit more pressure on this guy's trying to get that down and especially
being the last one to hit. But he did a good shot, just came up and yard short and made a good bucker shot and then it hit a great bucker shot just didn't make the putt, but there'll be a lot more chances for him.
Yeah, it was like thirty degrees, so it had to be I mean for those guys picking the yardage figured it out.
Yeah, it was really kind of kind of a gift.
So you know with Patrick Red, you know, he's he hasn't you know, really been in contention in a major. Do you think it's just you know, you know, it's only four tournaments a year. You know, is there anything that you know he needs to do, uh, you know, to work on to really get you know, where he's in the thick of it in a major, because it seems to be that's the last piece of his career. I mean, he's are a and he's young still, but you know that's the one glaring missing part of his resume.
Well, if you look at it, he had he had his best two finishes in in a major last year. He finished finished camp at the British Open, then he finished camp at eleven at the British Open in the PGA, and those were those were his two best finishes ever in a major. So that was a that was a step in the right direction. But no, that's just you know, honestly hasn't played in it. I mean then that just takes uh the wall, getting getting comfortable getting that position.
But he will have He will have plenty of major successes. I mean, you don't. He lives with that moment. He lives for the Ryder Cup. You can't perform, uh like he has in the in the Ryder Cup and had the consistency that that he had last year and until won five times. Uh, that's just the next step. That's just the next step is getting in contention with majors and uh, he will win his fair share when when
it's all said and done. But I know that's a big priority of his and he would definitely get that done.
When when you're doing practice drills and you're competing against them, you know is you know what, what's it like competing against Patrick Reed?
You're not gonna win very often. So that's one thing. Now he's he's the ultimate competitor. I mean, he he hates He probably hates losing more than he loves winning. And I think that's a that's a trade of a lot of great guys. They hate they hate to lose so badly that they're just gonna find a way to win.
And that's why he's so good in the in the in the Ryder Cup for matter, and then he former match play for mat because he he just he just he just loves to beat you and he's just going to find a way to step on you when when he's got you, and he's never going to give up. He might have a bad hole here here there, but that he's the guy that wants the ball at the end of the game. He's the guy that wants the
last shot. He's the guy that wants to wants the football was under two minutes with a chance to win
the game. And that's that's that's why he will that's had so much success as a Ryder cupper and and I think over time he'll go down is one of the greatest Ryder Cup players of all time because he's his match play record is his phenomenal, whether it's been in in junior golf, amateur golf, and college roff he went six and oh and and match play and you've seen the success that he's had in the Ryder Cup and President's Cup, and I think it's all only going
to get better because he truly just lives for that moment.
Yeah, I mean he's turned into an American legend because of because of the Ryder Cup. I mean, like you said, you know, he he wanted Rory McElroy when McElroy's playing probably the best some of the best go off of his career.
Yeah, that was pretty pretty incredible two matches Nichols Nicholson Sergio match and then the Rory and Rorans and Patrick match for about that as good as golf can can be played on that day. It was pretty h off off of special stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah, he uh, he'll be the time that that will want to play five five matches every every Ryder Cup and he participates in it'll he'll never he'll never want to sit out. I can function that.
Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it was. It was cool. I think that you definitely. I feel like that Phil Sergio match just got got so overshadowed by the Rory Reid match. But you know, that match was so insanely good. It probably you know, it seemed like Reid and Mathlroy wore each other out by like holy eight and but that match was just eighteen holes of unbelievable golf.
Yeah, it was. It was probably the best time scene definitely in that format anyway.
Already after birdy, So we'll get you out of here because I know it's it's it's a tournament week. You got tomorrow's the first round, so you probably got your phones probably ringing off the hook. But so with last question from Twitter, what could amateurs learn most from, you know, the games of professionals, Like, you know, what what can average average you know, take away from watching a PGA Tour event or you know, watching a specific player at at an event.
I think the biggest thing they can do is just just watch how they manage, watch how they manage the golf course, watch how they play play the game, and then never, you know, very rarely, very rarely do they put themselves in trouble. They know when to take chances with the right clubs. Again, they know when their wedges. They're pretty much faring at every flag with you know, seven, six R and five iron. They're trying to hit it to twenty thirty thirty feet for the most part and
make the parts and move on. But I think you the one of the things that I think is really really special to watch for guys, and what I've really my guys over and over and over again. It is getting you know, is around the greens and getting the basic shots up and down. You don't have to get you know, the best, the best guys of the best short games in the world. They don't always get it up and down. They don't get the artisans up and
down all the time. But if you watch how they chip and pitch the ball and the basic ones, the easy ones, they chip it, the tap in the chip, you know, it looks like it's going in all the time. And I think that's that's something that is very you know, underrated, is getting the basic ones up and down to where there's no stress, you know, chipping it to where it's tap in. Uh, that's how you develop a sound short game. Yes, it's nice to hit the super up shot, the hardins,
get those, get those closed. But honestly, those guys are when when they have a super tough shot, they're just trying to to you know, give themselves a chance to make a putt. But the basic ones, they look at those of scoring opportunities and and you know, quite honestly, amateur whether it's juniors, whether it's college players, you know, high handicappers, low handicappers, making successful mid ends. Whatever it may be, you can't stress the value of spending spending
enough time around the greens. I mean, if you if you have an hour to practice, I mean, what does everybody do that go to the range. They hit as many balls as they can, They wind up hitting you know, way too many drivers, and they really don't do anything that really got them better, where they would be much better off spending half their time on the range and half the time shipping, pitching and putting and really getting better.
And again, I have a simple theory if you could try to find a way to spend equal time in all four four years of the game. If you're going to practice for for two hours, if you spend thirty minutes on the range, thirty minutes shipping, pitching, bunkering, thirty minutes putting in thirty minutes with your distance wedges, and
it's it's pretty hard not to improve. It sounds very simple, very dumb down, but honestly it's That's the first question I asked everybody when I when I when I start, you know, when I start working them with them, I asking one question, I say, how when's the last time you spend equally equal time working in all faces of the game, and most of the time, nobody's ever been able to answer that with yeah, I do that all the time, or i've or i've even ever done that.
I know I haven't, and I know most most of even the best players in the world haven't. But why don't, like, if those are the four main areas of the game, why wouldn't we spend equal time in those? Sounds very dumb and dumb down, but it's, uh, it's the way I wish, I wish I would have practiced.
Yeah, it's uh, uh, I think I practiced much smarter now than when I was younger. And I always think about, man, if I spend as much time, you know, or at least the percentages I spend now on putting in short game, that when I was a kid, I would have been so much better.
So yeah, and again, and I guarantee you don't spend as much time in technique as well, because you don't
have the time. And and I think that's that's the area where I think that we see the biggest the fallout is just we get so obsessed with technique and trying to perfect something that is really really it's not attainable and as opposed to to the shot making, the random andes surpprise, just the competitiveness, the practice and really doing things that are going to develop trust, develop confidence that's going to carry that's actually going to transfer to
the golf course. Because yes, yes, the technique work is important and you have to do that, but that doesn't guarantee it's going to transfer to the golf course. Because when you're on the first team and in your nerve, you're nervous, and you've got people around or maybe just playing with your buddies at your home course, you better have something to fall back on and done enough competitive practice and done enough rehearsals that hey, I feel like I could pull the shot off.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's this. The smartest way is just spend time everywhere and become more well rounded. But hey, you know, really appreciate the time. And it was awesome to pick your brain and get to kind of nerd out about golf with you for for an hour.
Well, I love it.
I love I'm so blessed of what I get to do and love love love making guys better and it's it's my passion and I'm thankful to have an awesome life and awesome kids that allow me to be on the road a.
Lot of the time, because if I didn't have that, I sure wouldn't be able to do it. So it's cool and love hoping my guys get better and hopefully even better things for coming.
Yeah, well, we'll stay in touch and look forward to meet you at at one of these events. Sometimes sounds great.
Thanks so much for having me, I really appreciate it.
