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dealing with the coronavirus and their championships. Before we get to John, a quick reminder to sign up for our newsletter. Our team with Will Knights and Garrett Morrison have been cranking this out three days a week with some really interesting stories.
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It's completely free at the fridaygg dot com and it will make your mornings every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Now, without further ado, here's John Bodenhammer.
I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in.
A brid egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida, egg Frida eggg Frida egg bride egg Lie.
I'm about ready to run off the golf course. I saw some quotes in an interview you did with Brendan Porath last year about moving out of the Northwest. What was your you know, what was your favorite part about living up there.
The summers, especially after July fourth through September and October. If you play golf, it's a magnusum part of the world to play golf. Beautiful golf courses, the mountains, the evergreen trees, it's just beautiful in the summer and earlycall.
How's the transition been moving over to New Jersey.
You know, it's been great. I actually, as a young boy, we would venture back here most summers and spend a few weeks in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts. I had lots of relatives back here. My mom was from back here, grew up in Pennsylvania, went to school in Philadelphia, and so I knew the area quite well, and it wasn't a big surprise. It was certainly a cultural change.
I spent most of my life in the Pacific Northwest, Washington and Oregon and went to school in Utah, and so it was a big change.
Anytime you changed.
Careers after twenty two years in one job and moved to another, you have a lot to learn. But it has been a magnificent ride. I love the USJA always have, and it's a great honor to.
Work with them.
You had a very good amateur college career. Obviously, you won a national title at BYU and played with some great players. Talked to us a little bit about that experience, and then you tried to play professionally.
Yes, boy, you've done your homework. That's many years ago.
But I grew up playing competitive golf. From the time I was eleven twelve years old, I started the game, and by the time I was thirteen and fourteen, I was playing in everything that I could tee it up in, and as a junior, I had the great fortune of winning the Washington State Juniors at Northwest Junior and some other things and had some good success and was greatly benefited by coach Carl Tucker at Brigham Young University who offered me a college golf scholarship to play at the
YU and the early nineteen eighties, and boy, we had some great teams, people like Bobby Clampett and Dick Socle and Rick Fair and goodness East Clearwater.
Help. Yeah.
He was probably my best friend on the tour on the team and went on to be Rookie of the Year on the tour and went a few times. I still stay in touch with Keith and all the guys. There are so many other names I could share with you that were on and off the tour. But it was a great experience. The guys were really close knit. There were fourteen of us on the team. It was a beautiful place to play. We traveled a lot, we played in all the big events and win a national
championship in nineteen eighty one. It was it was a great experience. And you know, Coach Ducker was an incredible man. He was a great mentor to me. I learned a great deal from him, both on and off the golf course, how to treat people, how to dress, how to make first impressions, how to make sure you graduate with a degree, and some of the most important lessons in my life came from him, and I'll always be.
Grateful for it.
And recently I've become fascinated with the life and career of Bobby Clampett.
What was it like being his teammate?
Well, I played one year with Bobby, Bobby was you know?
It's truly a fantastic question.
Because today a lot, especially a lot of the young kids that play competitively, whether as amateurs now in college or on the tour, really that's a name that maybe a few have heard of, maybe associate him more with his announcing career's broadcast career with CBS.
But he was the.
Dominant college player while he was at BYU. And when I say that, he won multiple Fred Haskins Awards, which at that time was the heisman of college golf. He didn't just win events. He won going away. I remember his junior year in California and in Arizona. I think in three or four consecutive weeks he won by seven to twelve or fifteen shots against the best players in college golf.
He was just exceptionally dominant.
He played under the golfing machine methodology and hit it quite long, but boy could he put and he could shoot some low, low numbers, and he just had no fear. And it really was and he remains a great friend. But only played one year with him, And you know, it was his junior year that we were particularly to
win the national championship and didn't. And then he departed, and I think guys like Dick Zogel and Rich Fair and Keith Clarewater and others really blossomed and we were able to win it, which was a right thrill for everybody. But Bobby was, you know, he just everybody thought he was a can't miss and I think I think he just had such a great game. And we all still talk about that when we get together.
That's the cruel thing about golf is that it can go as quick as it comes. And there are certain guys like Crunshaw and Sevy, for example. A lot of people say they played their best golf at age sixteen to twenty, you know, and Clampett was definitely in that same bucket where you know, the he was one of the probably best players in the world at age twenty, you know, And it's just an odd game that way.
I'll tell you a couple of things I could share with you. You know, you remember how creative he was hitting golf ball, one of the first hick golf balls off of his knees, and he could hit it two hundred and sixty two hundred and seventy yards And those are the days of Persimin and Ballada. A lot of the young kids have never experience that like some of us did growing up in that area. But he did a lot of amazing things. And you know, I can remember one year he was on his way to the Masters.
He had been I can't remember how he became exempt, but he had an invitation. Might have been because he's low amter and the US Open, which he led the US Open at Cherry Hills, I believe through twenty seven holes as an amateur nineteen years old. But I remember that it was a year or two later, was going to the Masters, and like I was having a conversation with coach Tucker and he said, you know, John, Bobby's going to a guest of this week and he really
really believes he can win. And I believe the first couple of days, yeah, he was even or one under par and was within range and didn't. But it was just a mindset had. He had absolutely no fear. He believed in himself more than anybody I've ever known and I at that time, and he did some remarkable things. I think more than anything, Bobby was a perfection. This pretty good with his golf swing. He constantly strove to get better and that might have been something that was
his biggest achilles heel because he was never satisfied. All of us would watch him play and just kind of you know, wow, it was the wow factor behind it, but he was never satisfied. And I remember when he went on tour. Peter Jacobson later told me he thought he had the best swing on tour. All he had to do was let it go to work. But he kept changing it and tinkering with it.
But that was Bobby.
He was a very bright guy, graduated with a degree in three years for BYU, which is a great school. But he's a He's not. He was not only a great player, he was a great human being. He'd be fun to be around and chuckle with him, but he had a hard goal, still does and he remains a good friend.
You mentioned the hitting the ball from his knees.
I read an old article that that cited he was doing that at the US Open at Invernet.
That's right.
In fact, I remember that I was not at BYU. I think I was a year before I went to BYU, if I'm not mistake, and I was still playing junior golf, and I remember I remember reading about that and they Bobby had missed the cut at Inverness Club that year. In Toledo and the USJA, he was a great favorite of the USJA phenom and they asked him to be a playing marker because they had an odd number of players and made the cut. I can't remember who he played with in the very first year about but you know,
Bobby Score wasn't counting. He wasn't in the championship any longer, and so he began to put on an exhibition. He began to try and hit different shots, big big fades or hooks, or just different low shots and putting greens, as I recall reading. But then he began to hit drives off of his knees, and the crowds were mesmerized by it, and he had never seen that, and I mean drive it straight down the middle two undred and sixty, two hundred and seventy yards from his knees.
Nobody could believe it.
But I think the powers would be at that time, they were still wearing the blue blazers out there, and I'm one of those now didn't take too kindly to that. And so on the tenth toll they asked Bobby to depart, and he did, and I think he felt very badly about that. I think he was just trying to be a bit entertaining, and I think they felt it was maybe a distraction, but.
He was that way.
He just he was very creative and didn't have any fear. It was fun to be around.
That whole US Open had a bunch of stuff.
They had the Impostor, the great Impostor snuck in right, played the practice round the Hinkle Tree. That was Yeah, incredibly, It's kind of an incredible US Open to go back and read about.
We had a great US junior there this year with Preston Summer.
He's winning. We still love IMPNUS Club. It's one of America's great clubs.
Oh god, that that in that restoration renovation work that they recently did is fantastic. Some of those the new holes are our tremendous golf holes out there.
They really are. Andrew Green did a magnificent job there. Yeah, it's fantastic.
We love it.
Yeah, that's a cool place. And if you're not on your game, you're going to have a long.
Day out there.
That's right.
And your personal estimation, how does big a former player help you when you do these setups for championships?
Well, I think it does. I think I have you know, I never played on tour. I did play at a high level of amateur golf, won a state amateur, won a couple of state opens, played into US Amateurs, and played in a lot of USJ qualifying and several NCAA championships, and so, you know, I understand it to that level. I've never played in a tour event. I did get to the second stage of tour school qualifying a couple of times, but never got out on tour. But I was around a lot of really good players who did
get out into a multiple tour winners. Johnny Miller used to come out and play with his Billy Casper, and I used to pick their brains. Mike Reid is a close personal friend, played a lot of golf off with those guys and would continuously talk strategy with.
Them about how you know, they would they would.
Play and what they would play around with their games. You know, Billy Caster was probably the greatest wedge player ever saw, and what he would think about and how he would set up his t shots so that he could really have a wedge in his hand and make a dance around the hole. And then of course he was a great putter, where Johnny Miller was maybe the
greatest iron player that I've ever seen. Next Keith clare Water too, and they would play around that and really hit the ball close to the hole and and and really score that way. I think being around that and I was I've always been one to be to be curious about what the great players or even just good players think about as a strategize around a golf course.
And it was benefited by a lot of that, and growing up and in college and afterwards, and I think going to the USJ, and even before going to the USJ with Pacific Northwest and Washington Stakeoff associations, I loved course set up the most. I would always be involved in that or win the Pacific Coast Amateur Championship. We ran as well at some great GoF courses and thinking about how players would approach a whole and approach putting
green and approach shot. And then when I came to the USJA, it was one of the great lorest to come to the USA to be able to work with Mike Davis, who in two thousand and six don that mantle for US and succeeded Tom Meeks with course set up. And in those days Mike's graduated rough and some of what he did with herman past conditions was pretty revolutionary for the USGA and the US Open, and coming and beginning to work with him in twenty eleven was a
great joint. I've learned a lot there as well. In some of our great US Open courses.
Mike Davis did a lot of things, and one of the big things was introducing that day to day variety and setups where all of a sudden it wasn't just you know, automatic, We're going to put the tea here every single day, and it came with Obviously there's beend mixed feedback from players about it. I'm curious, how do you guys approach providing that variety without doing too much to get, you know, to push it over the edge.
Sure, well, Mike, you're right, Mike, I think is just really us He's a brilliant thinkers as it pertains to really pushing things hard on a golf course and really developing an ultimate test.
And you know, I think part of what we.
Think of the US Open is that it is it is unique to major championships, any championship in the world, and that the way we think about set up, it's not just where the team the teas are on the teeing area or the holes are on the putting greens. It's about fairway with it's about angles, it's about weather, it's about firm and fast and really it's also not just about being able to to to really.
Control your shot making.
But it's about the ability to control it once it lands on the ground and it runs out a little bit, and and and and really premium on driving accuracy and and I think risk reward. But even above that is the mental side of the game. And I think the ability or the the opportunities to present something to players that might be a little unexpected. You'll find those that will say, wow, Okay, let's see this is an opportunity. Maybe maybe others are going to think this, think about
this a little negatively. I'm gonna think positively and take advantage of it. Or I don't have this yardage, what what do I do? Or I didn't think about this angle? What am I going to do? We think that enhances the tests that the US Open provides. It's not just about length, it's not.
Just about whole locations.
It's about curving your ball left and right, up and down, and what happens to it when it's on the ground. And also the mental approach. Just you know, after you've made a couple of bog he's gathering yourself and making a couple of pars. Maybe not a birdie right away, not shooting at a at a flag stick or a whole location, but also maybe when you get that unexpected forward t it you manage it properly, and your emotions are a big part of that.
We think that's that's an important part of the test.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think you know, they and a lot of golf what we see it kind of has been reduced sometimes to an execution test, and it's so much more of a game, difficult of a game when when you have to think and the element of doubt comes in. I think like one of the great examples of the change tee was Jim Furi US Open years ago when they switched the te and they didn't know what the number was and he hit one of the worst shots of his tournament and one of the shots that cost him the championship.
It did. I was there.
It was two thousand and twelve at the Olympic Club and Jim was leading. Being area was quite a bit upfront again risk reward. I think some of the longer hitters. Could you know, if they if they hit a sweeping hook around the corner, could knock it on into and
that's six hundred plus yard Part five. And you know, really given out, given players an opportunity to take a little bit of a risk if they wanted to, They didn't have to, could have laid back a little bit and maybe knock it on into and make up birdie late and late in the game and change the outcome of the championship perhaps or even make an eagle. And I think Jim was trying to hit that shot and just didn't. And I'll tell you what I know Jim
Ferrick a little bit. I've had a numerous conversations with him. He's a pass champion of the US Open, and really admire his thinking. He is one of the steeliest competitors. He's a prototype US Open champion. He drives it in the fairway, he never gives up. He's an ultimate grinder. Refereed his group numerous times at the British Open. I'd have great admiration for Jim that I think it was just Jim taking a risk to knock it around the
corner and unfortunately just didn't execute. It wasn't wasn't anything more than that. But but that's that's why we do what we do. We think that with the US Open doing those things, it's it's not an attempt to see players make bogey or double bogey. It's an attempt that when they do succeed, and those players that do hit it around the corner and knock it on and make eathl or birdy and do something like that, they've done
something very special. They've achieved something. That is when when they when they hoist that trophy, they'd known they've done something amazing. It's like Tom Tom Watson says often. You know, my my dad said, boy, if you can win the National Open, you've really achieved something because you've wanted on the toughest tests.
Of the year.
I can remember quote Jeff Ogilvie, Uh I think it was might have been after his win at Wingfoot A couple of years later, he was asked in the media center after his round, how did you have fun shooting your sixty seven today? And Jets a real cerebral guy, and he thought for a minute and he said, I don't know if I would really describe what I did today as being fun because it's a grind. At the US Open, it's hard, but I've got I've got a
great deal of satisfaction out of my round today. I really feel like I earned that great score and it's truly gratifying.
I think.
I think that's really what we're trying to create. It's something that when the guys do win, they've done something.
That is so special.
And you talk to those, the Curtis Strangers and the hailerwins and the Tigers and Urniels, those that win, you hear that a lot.
You hear that a lot.
They want it hard, they want it fair, and that's what we endeavor to do.
It evokes a different you know, I played in a USGA Championship a few years ago and just the intensity and the folk that was required walking off the golf course after around it, it was a exhaustion mentally that I had never really felt as a golfer. And it's just a different it's a hard hard to describe the feeling where you know, if you lose your focus or lose you know, your control for a second, it can
get turned around so quickly. And that's the thing that makes it so unique is that it's if you make a mistake, you better do your best to If you go on tilt and keep making compounding the mistake, that's where you can derail your whole championship.
That's right.
And I think the mental part of that is so important because you know, and Jack Nicholas used to used to speak about that.
He's got some amazing quotes.
You know, playing in the afternoon, he'd walk into the locker room and hear guys grousing about a whole location or the heights of the roughs, and he's told us this, and I think he's been quoted many times in the media saying it. He'd walk by the guys and he'd say, well, I got him beat, I got him beat. I got him beat, because they you know, some players just can
can deal with that and some can't. And and we think that's the mark of a great champion, someone that can overcome adversity because you are going to make mistakes. You're going to make bogies at the US Open, and the trick is really the key is not to make to make a few of them, but also not make the big hole, because it's really hard to come back from that big hole, the double or the triple is what.
You want to avoid.
But it's just about hanging in there. You know.
It's like it's like it's like running a marathon. It's like the decathlon. It's like training to be a Navy seal. It's a test that once it's it's a grind. It must be fair. But when you get to the mountaintop after that climb, you know that you've done something and achieve something unlike anything else, and we take great pride in that has to be fair. And I think it's our DNA across all of our championships, not just the US Open.
Something you alluded to with that Jack Nicholas story is the emotional aspect that players have when you're you're playing tournament golf, and you know a lot of times you'll you'll say something or you'll think something when you're in the moment, and then you know, when you get the opportunity of thinking back a month later, you might realize that you made a mistake. How do you how do you guys balance feedback knowing that you know a lot of times coming from it's an emotional response.
It is you know, we hear well well and you know, for a lot of years we hear from the players, but I think in today's day and age, with social media and and agents and coaches and and just you know, players in the interaction that we have with them now, I think one of the best things we've done in a long time is to have hired Jason Gore as
our senior director of player Relations. Jason's are respected to her player, a seven time winner and just a tremendous guy with tremendous integrity, a great sense of humor, a great ball striker, and as respect to the guys, and I think they feel they can go to him and share with him candid feedback but also you know, candid feedback if they don't like something, but also some great ideas that we have that have been shared with Jason at about many topics, and we listen, and we you know,
we've we've always listened, uh, but we've never had the avenue to either seek that feedback and obtain it and bring it into Golf House or really I think more importantly, we've never had that avenue to explain the why behind some of our decisions. And I think that's left misperception. I think it's left some hard feelings. I think those there are a number that we are close to always have been, Tiger Jack and Tom Watson, Taylorwin, you know,
some of those guys they know us. But now we're able to stay in touch with with anybody who's willing to talk. And Jason's done a great job with that and it's benefited us and we'll continue to do so.
I've heard from the people I know that on tour that Jason that you know, he's a great guy to talk to and has given them a way to find, you know, to get information. And I think that's the biggest thing is I think a lot of people generally they complain when they feel like they have it, aren't being heard or don't have an outlet to complain, and then when you talk back to when you communicate back,
they're the nicest people in the world. Like I see it with what I do is, you know, sometimes people have complaints and then when you respond to them and you communicate, then they turned into the nicest people of the world.
Well that's right.
And you know, we're fans of the greatest players in the world, fans of the greatest amateurs in the world, and you know, we want to hear from them, We want to share with them what about our decisions and and you know they all want the best for the game, and you know that dialogue is really important because we care about them and we want to share with them what we're doing. And you know, I think it's an important relationship, not just that with the tour players, but
with the amateurs as well. You know, are amateur championships. Every one of them is a major to somebody, and whether you're a mid amateur or a senior amateur, or a women's midamateur or a junior, it's they're the most important championships you play in each year as an amateur, and we want to hear from them. And we think a lot about these days, the player journey. That's a
strategy that's front and center in my mind. And taking on my responsibilities and overseeing all of our championships that Mike Davis asked me to do a few years ago, I really take that seriously. Where you know, Nick Price, who's on our board in our Championship committee, former number one player, said something that really fueled my thinking a couple of years ago at a Championship committee meeting he said, and you can apply this to any championship. John, It's
really important. Where the guys win their major, win their US Open. It's really important, and that's fueled. It's just so simple, but it's right in front of you, but it fuels our thinking that, you know, where do the players want to win their US Open, their US Women's Open, their US Amateur, their US Junior Amateur, and so on, and so one of the things that we strive to do is go to our nation's greatest golf courses. And
we'll continue to do that. We're thinking about that a little bit differently as we go forward, but it's that sort of feedback and guidance. And then you think about the journey. You think about someone like Jordan Speith winning two US Juniors and then going on and almost winning the US Amateur. Aaron Hills the following year, got to the quarterfinals, played on a Walker Cup team, and then goes on a year later and wins whin's the US Open.
That's the ultimate player journey. That's what we're trying to create as we think about these young kids starting out and all the way up through the US Open and with amateurs even into the mid and senior ranks.
It's pretty inspiring.
Yeah, I think that's that's so spot on and I you know, always contend with especially like state associations. It's so important to have your big state championships at great venues because that's what inspires the the the youngest of the generation playing in them if they're you know, in a perfect example of the US Junior getting great venues, you know, for US Junior helps those juniors become better players when they move up to the US am and
hopefully eventually the US Open. It prepares them for you know, their future golf in championship golf experience.
It does.
And I think playing on that grand stage where so much history oftentimes is made prior to you stepping there, you know, the Inverness Club where Preston Summer Hayes won the Junior Ammeter this year. You think about the Opens and the Senior Opens and US Amateurs that have been there,
it's it's it's it's a great legacy. And to be on that stage with the US Open setup, with the narrowness of the fairways where you've got to drive the ball in the fairway and the heights of the rough where you're penalized much of the time if you don't drive it in the fairway, and then you get on the putting green and you have to really think about it. And it does prepare them for what's coming later in life. And it's certainly with USA events, but otherwise, and we
think that's important. We think our championships inspire each demographic and in the future generations, and we take great pride in that, and going to the very best sites is critical.
Narrowing, with narrowing of fairways, how do you, guys, balance where you're still when you narrow fairways, you're still rewarding the accurate player versus the power player.
Boy, it's a question we talk about every day at Golf House, those of us that work on the US Open course setup and people like Jeff Hall and myself and then Kimball and all of our championship directors, Darren Bavard or Agronomous. You know, every course is different. Pebble Beach is different than Wingfoot this year and will be different than Tory Pines next year, and the country Club in twenty two and Los Angeles Country Club in twenty three.
The weather is different, the grasses are different, the topography is different, so there's no set with the US Open fairway, But it really is more about what the whole provides and letting it be what the architect intendants be. And I'll give you an example of that at Pebble Beach last year we had one of our widest fairways in US Open history on number ten. I think it was
fifty four yards wide, I'm not mistaken. But the topography on that was I don't remember what the slope was, but it was, you know, probably eight nine percent and so or seventy eight percent. I would imagine that in firm and fast. It wasn't as firm as fast as
maybe we could have had it. But you know that you drive ball on the left side of that fairway, it's probably running twenty thirty forty yards down towards the ocean, and you need that with whereas you go to a place like wing Foot and you've got a whole whole goodness, you could you can you can take just about any hole at Wingfoot that you'll see, and there isn't that topography necessarily and there's probably not going to be wind and or at least much of it, and it's just different,
and it's it will be a narrower you'll see fairways in the twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven yard range. You know a hole that's maybe three seventy that a guy might be tempted to drive it from a forward te as opposed to a five hundred yard part four. You know, the five hundred yard part four, it needs to be a little bit wider and a little bit
more room to hit. It's a little harder to hit where you can take that four or five iron out on that three hundred and seven yard part four and still have an a nine iron wedge in.
So it's strategic.
And then we you know, I think we try to create angles too. We'll look back at old aerials at what an aw tilling hast intended with wing foot and kil Han's a great restoration he did a few years ago in the West courses allowed us to do that, but we really try to take what the architect intended. We tried to go with that and create shot values that he thought created the great test and the width
is part of that. We think there should be a premium on driving your ball in the fairway for a US Open and then playing it onto the green from the fairway and being able to control your ball, and the best players could do that.
Obviously, par fives are quite different than what par fives were even twenty twenty years ago, where you know, almost everybody in the field's getting home into if they hit a good drive or close to home, and two, there's very rare we'd come across true three shot par fives. With that in mind, do you ever envision a a par at a championship venue going below seventy?
Ah?
Goodness, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, we've played the US Open at under par seventy. I have to go back and the look, I'm going from memory now. But the Country Club of Philadelphia, I think is a par sixty nine, or was when we played the US Open there. I mean, I believe that's accurate. I have to go back and the look I'm going from memory.
But you know, I don't know.
It's a fair question. And I think to us, when we think about it, par is really relative. It's a number, and you know it can be a par four or par five, but it's all about the number that you score on that hole and getting your ball into the hole.
I think we look more at what are the shot values from the teeing area into the fair way and where is a good player going to with the way they drive the ball today, And I don't just mean that by length, but how they hit it, how they curve it or how they play it fame hook and where they're going to drive it, and then what type
of shot they have into the putting green. And you know, sometimes you can have a one hundred and seventy yards shot into a putting green, but putting green can be all mounded up and balls can careene away from the hole just because of the topography on the putting green, And so those holes are generally par fives because you're
throwing a short shot and you control it. You don't want to be hitting a four or five iron into some of those types of putting greens where the ball is going to careen, a good shot is going to careene off the green, or a good shot won't end up near the hole.
And we try to watch.
Those things and not really think about a number and present the golf course so that it is a shot value test no matter what it might be. Depending on the teas.
We'll use, Yeah, yeah, I think that I completely agree with the par being just a number it obviously, I think par is what. You know, the most of the golf vans equate to difficulty, which is kind of a unfortunate thing because you know, I think back Aaron Hills, it's a par seventy two. Brooks winds at sixteen under, but if you change it to par seventy he wins at eight under, and probably nobody complains that it's too easy.
And you know, likewise with like Pebble Beach last year, you know, you watch the sixth hole, guys are hitting iron iron into this into the green.
It's like, is this really a par five?
You know, if somebody makes a player makes a five, they definitely walk off the green feeling like they lost a shot to the field.
Well, that's a really great example to andy. I think that number six at Pebble you know a lot of we did hear a lot of that last year where you know it's just a long part four. Well, you know, no, it's not. We you throw a twenty twenty five mile an hour wind in there, and that fairway that runs all the way into the ocean and down and away from you, you might be hitting two or threeing off that tea, but that's not going to be an easy
fairway to hit. And then I'm going to assure you that that shot up the hill, if you're not hitting it up the hill from that fairway, just getting it up on top of the hill from the road was going would have been a really big chore. And that rough up that hill was no picnic. It was in some places eight to ten inches by design. And you know, yeah, I guess if you play it just right, And we didn't have a whole lot of win last year. It
played short, but that's okay. It's the way the architect intended it to be played, and that's really where we what we try to embrace. We just wanted to let Pebble Beach be Pebble Beach, and that's maybe the perfect example of a whole that was just intended to be the way that it was.
So with that being, you know, your first opportunity to do the US Open setup as the man in charge. What were the biggest takeaways from Pebble.
Well, I think the biggest takeaway for me was I grew up playing Pebble Beach as well. I'm from the Pasitic Northwest. But in college we'd always go to Pebble and play at some point during the year in the Monterey Peninsula, and it was played there a lot even after college. And it's just such a magnificent place. It's a national treasure. It's it's iconic. Players love it. It's just so beautiful. And I think just having the opportunity to to really oversee course set up there this past
year was was really a great honor for me. I still I still pinched myself thinking about it. And you know, Mike Davis asked me to do that. That was something that had been in the works for a few years and allowed Mike to really become really devoted his time to be a CEO. We've been talking about that for a few years. And to do it and to begin that journey at Pebble was amazing. And I think that,
you know, Pebble is such a beloved side. You look at the history that's been there all the way back to the US Amateur when when Bob Jones played in almost one and through the US opens that have been there. Some of our most iconic with Jack Nicholas is one Iron and Tom Watson's chip in and Tom Kite's chip in and and and grammicdow to do it this year in ed Gary Woodlands. To the mix was just it was just fantastic. You know, we didn't get the wind. We planned, of course, set up around the wind.
Because you have to.
If you don't, then you risk the golf course getting away from you because a boy, when the wind blows there, it can firm up very quickly. And but but I think, you know, we had a great team going in and we felt good about it. I'll tell you probably one of the biggest factors to the success we had last year. And you know, it's no secret, Andy, we needed not just a good US Open, we needed a great US Open.
We had. There's it's no.
Secret we had we had had some challenges in a couple of the previous years, and uh and we needed a good one for a whole bunch of reasons. And and by every measure we had it. And I think where it all started on the golf course was how amazing those putting greens were in the condition they were in.
They were perfect.
And I think even when the players arrived they were a stout because they usually are there in February, and it's difficult to progress on the Monterey Peninsula. In February. It's soft, it's bumpy, but they still it's wonderful in February. But in June, I don't think they'd ever seen Polannia greens at Pebble Beach like they were.
They were literally perfect.
And it's a testament to Chris Dahlhammer, their former superintendent, who just departed to go to Monterey Peninsula Country Club. Kudos to Chris. He's a great friend. And you think about those little tiny putting greens. They are about as big as your kitchen table, most of them, and get about seventy thousand rounds a year. For him to have them in the condition they were in, it's one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. And it just allowed the guys to really make a lot of putts.
And I think a number of the players told us, look, it was a perfect setup. Had some wins, you know, the scores would have been a little bit lower. But we're grateful that you just let it be what it was to be without trying to force it.
And we did.
We just we had a plan going in and we had a strategy and we didn't get any win, but we stuck with our plan. We didn't we didn't try to force it for a score. And if you know a lot of people think we target par, we don't. We don't have a target score. We have a golf course setup. And I think if there's no better there's no better proof than what we did last year because it wasn't a target score. Had there been, we'd have
force it and tried to get to a score. But what you saw Gary Woodland do and Brooks Kopka and Justin Rose, it was fun to watch.
Yeah.
I think that's the thing.
I talk with Jeff Ogilby regularly on the podcast and he always says, stresses, look at the leader board, don't look at the scores.
On the leaderboard.
And I think anybody that was out at Pebble on Sunday, I mean the energy, especially on that front nine, when you know the two best players in the field clearly were throwing haymakers at each other, with Brooks and Gary Woodland off the bat those birdies, those first six holes, it was, you know, an energy out on the golf course that that I you know, I had never really
experienced before, and it was. You know, the the two players that were most worthy of the championship clearly separated themselves on that final day.
They did and you nailed it. You could see it right right off. The get go was there to go get and and Brooks and Gary went out and got it, as did a few others, you know, as I recall, Adam Scott got off the really hot start, and there were a few others. But by that time Gary and Brooks were what kind of where they were and Justin Rose was hanging in there, and you know, it was
it was really a great testament to Pebble Beach. That place is so special and and you know they were two prize fighters duking it out and you know it was and then you know, you turn theer through seven and then you've got to play eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, even thirteen and fourteen, one of the tougher part fives in the world. You know that it's almost two different
golf courses, and it was. It was a bit nerve racking to watch all those bradies ely On, I'll be honest with you, thinking about what could it could be. But boy, they when they turned the corner to go into eight. The golf course took care of itself and we knew it would even without wind, and to have what happened there was really gratifying. And so that's one in a row. We're gonna have a much more coming at us again with wing Foot this year.
We're excited so changing gears this year.
Obviously, it's been a really tough time for the entire world, and the pandemics made hosting any type of event extraordinarily difficult, especially with the conflicted you know, there's different information that comes out every day bring us into the just the decision making process and how difficult it was for you guys to come up with your your solution that we
have now we obviously have the rescheduled events. We have the US AM, the US Women's Am, the US Open, and the US Women's Open left and and the fall dates and no qualifying.
Yep.
Yeah, it's been quite a journey. It's been quite a year. It's something that none of us ever anticipated. You can't plan for, and so very difficult journey. We feel a lot of emotions right now with where we are in the year. We're disappointed, you know, sitting here and saying that we've canceled ten championships is surreal. It's like a dream and I'm waiting to wake up, but we all are at the USJA. It's heartbreaking, truly agonizing and heartbreaking.
But you know, as we.
Went into this and we saw that it was coming at us starting back in March and thinking about our championships that were starting the next month with the Women's four Ball Championship and the men's four ball a few weeks later, we really, as we began to understand what the pandemic was was beginning to be, we really put a couple of oh guiding stars in front of us.
One first and foremost, as you as everybody would imagine, would be health and safety of everyone involved with with a USJA championship or anything that the USJ does, our agronomus or our staff who conducts handicapped seminars or allied golf associations around the country, Health and safety had to be number one, and for all kinds of reasons and
all kinds and in all kinds of scenarios. The second part of that was we really went into the spring and saying, Okay, here's here's what we're up against, but let's let's give it every opportunity to crown as many champions of our fourteen championships as we can while really
having health and safety as a paramount concern. And it was that that led us down the road that we've come, and you know, and with qualifying that might have you know, that was just such a difficult decision because we take great pride in offering the platform that is qualifying to more than forty thousand players a year that enter USJA Championships at every level opens and amateurs, men, women, junior, senior,
as mid amateurs. Take great pride in that are our championship being inspiring because people can follow their dreams and every USJA Championship is a major to somebody. And to follow your dream through that platform, through the ultimate meritocracy and golf, you earn your way into our championships and we take great pride in that, and to not be able to do that this year is truly heartbreaking. I
cannot stress that enough. But I think we also in looking at it across the spectrum and our rationale I'm happy to talk about, but we do believe this is an unusual year, this will be a one off. We're already beginning to plan for qualifying full force next year, and so with the health and safety concern, that's why
we did what we did at a macro level. But at the same time, I think what we've done with the four championships and with fully exempt fields gives us really our best chance for success this year in twenty twenty. And I think as I think about it, I can just envision getting to the end of December and looking back at crowning four great champions in.
An amazingly challenged year.
I'm looking forward to celebrating those four great champions and then moving on to twenty one and getting back to crowning fourteen. But you know, I would say this, I think a couple of things really played a huge part in our decisions, and this notion of testing. We are going to test players and other essential attendees and workers, those that would volunteer, or food and beverage staff, or all of those that would work at a championship this year. The four that we have, we feel we have to.
If the players are going to play, we want them safe,
and that was a big part of our decision. You've seen the PGA Tour announce that they're going to test beginning here in mid June if they're able to play, and we sure hope they'll be able to, they'll test, and they'll test until there's a need not to when we have a vaccine or a wonderdrug, but ways away from that, and so to be able to do that for each championship proper, and considering the demographics in two senior Amateurs, two mid Amateurs, and a Senior Open and
Senior Women's Open, we just felt this is our best way forward. And then you also think about qualifying and just you know the ten thousand that enter a US Open in most years.
Or the two thousand and the Women's.
Open, and then across the amateur championships, there's about six hundred and fifty qualifying sites throughout the spring and summer and fall that LT Golf Associations arrange and run for US One hundred and nine of those are just for
US Open local qualifying. So you think about clubs that close down in March and April may be beginning to open up in May, and the challenges both financially that they're having now generating revenue and trying to reschedule all of that until later in the summer the fall, when everything else is trying to be rescheduled State amateurs and other major championships, And for that and other reasons, you know,
the host venues are AGAs those challenges. Just the ability to put your hand in a water cooler out of water bottle is different this year. You know, at qualifying, how are we going to evacuate players if we have inclement weather. We're not going to pile them into vans. That's a challenge. Some of the littlest things that we take for granted normally are major challenges this year, not even including testing, And we just felt that we needed to do this in a safe way and still crown champions and.
We weighed the risk versus.
The reward and we feel this is our best way forward.
Yeah.
I mean, I've run some events and we're the same things.
It's kind of there's so many little things that can happen that you have to have some sort of a solution for it, and there's it's such a big challenge.
I'm curious with the obviously, so much of the openness of these championships is the ethos of these championships, and how are you guys What are some of your strategies that you are going to take to capture that same feel in the US Open where we get those underdogs, those those local qualifiers and bring those to the forefront and get at least, you know, some of that feel into the one hundred and forty four person feel.
Thank you for that question.
It's a good one.
It's one we've been really really pushing on for the last several weeks. And you know, please know our intention going into crown every champion. We were going to do it with qualifying until just a few weeks ago when we really dug into and spoke to many of our lef associations and the challenges were just too great and
the risk versus reward was just too great. But what we'll do this year with the four championships, the Opens and the amateurs, the two Opens and the two amters, I think we are operating principle is this, we will endeavor to create fields through exemptions that will when you look at them and who is participating, the representation that is there will look as close as we can make it look as to what qualifying would produce in the US Open, where US Women's Open or US Amateur or
US Women's Ameter. What I mean by that is we're digging into the data now as to the past several opens, the US Open, US Women's Open, and looking at the makeup of those heels, and we will endeavor to expand our exemption categories to really do our best to reflect the representation from the PGA Tour, the European Tour, the
other worldwide tours, even amaters. You know, and you look at the US Open over the last five years, just the US Open, we haven't there are the average number of amters that play have played in the US Open over the last five years, it's fifteen point two, and most of them come through qualifying. We usually have five or six fully exempt diameters, but the rest earn their
way in through qualifying. Well, we looked at that and I think you'll see a number very close to fifteen as the number of amaters that'll be in the US Open. Probably a little less than that because we've got we don't have a full field with one forty four or instead of one to fifty six.
But that's the way we're looking at it.
And then across the US Amateur and the US Women's ameter. We look at it not from a tour standpoint, but from a demographic standpoint. What I mean by that is, we'll look at our exemptions and expand them. And how many juniors have played over the last several years in the US Amateur or the US Women's gammter, how many college players have made up the field, how many minamates, how many senior amates, And we're looking at that and
both in the opens. We'll use the Official World Golf Ranking and the role X Women's ranking and the World Amateur Golf Ranking for the amateurs. But we're gonna start and look at ways that we can Those fields can be reminiscent of what qualifying produces. I can tell you this, there'll be strong fields and you know, uh, it won't be perfect. You know, it won't provide that platform where
people can follow their dreams. But I think you'll also see some unique opportunities where people can still earn their way in. And I use the word earn as a key way to say it.
Stay tuned.
We'll have more on that in a couple of weeks.
Oh Man, Cliffhanger.
Qualifying.
Qualifying is not perfect either. Sometimes the best players not all of them get in because they miss qualifying. So I think that's important. But about to two and a half to maybe three weeks we'll speak to what that will look like.
Will you take into account, say geographics, like we typically get X number about this percentage of the you know, across the country, so you've got amateurs. Obviously, with the way qualifying works, you kind of get a mixture pot of the entire country or entire world.
Really for these did you look at that? Also?
I don't know that we'll look at geography. It won't be that way. It'll be more of what players have earned from the standpoint of maybe what they've done in a previous event or where they sit on a ranking, you know, official World Golf ranking, Rolex ranking or World Amitter Golf ranking. But really, you know, maybe maybe what they've done in a prior USGA championship and really earns something special, you know, by getting across a certain bar or a certain place.
In the rankings.
I don't think it'll be geographic, because we want it to be as merit based as possible. And as I said, thinking about I'm not sure today, I honestly can't tell you on you know, in the third week of May exactly what that's going to look like as far as earning your way in, But we're thinking a lot about that and maybe maybe certainly not as many opportunities as we normally provide your qualifying but if we can create
some opportunity there, we want to do it. But it again, meritocracy is important, and we're thinking about that more than we would something like geography.
Yeah, I think that. I mean, I think that's cool. With the combination of ranking and what they've done in prior USGA championships is a neat way to do it because it it you know, brings those players back and there's a essence of you've earned it one way or the other, whether it be qualifying. But also you know, in this situation you don't get the opportunity to earn it via qualifying, so it's based off of what you've done before.
You know, something else that is really important. I think to mention too with it all all that we do, and we do a lot for the game. I think you know that a lot of people know that, But we think about the us Open and moving the us Open into September, it's crucial to what we do and helping us fulfill our mission to pay it really is is what makes everything else possible. What the US Open generates.
It's not the only thing, but you know, the US Open fuels things like the ten million dollars a year we invest in the US Women's Open, the twenty five million dollars in running our additional opens and amateur championships, you know, all other team championships. You know, we invest. I think it's more than twenty five million dollars to grow the game.
Things like.
LPGA USA Girls Golf, the first tea driveship and putt two hundred plus thousand kids will participate in that.
As we go forward.
Our PGA Boat Ride internship program in all fifty states, one hundred and fifty men and women every year that enter the game as administrators. That way, three million have USJA handicap indexes.
I don't think there's.
A blade of grass on any golf course in the United States. It hasn't been touched by our green section and our agronomous and the money that we pour into that to make the game better for everybody. We're proud of that. Our championships are inspirational, but it all starts with the US Open, and I think that's an important message in what it means for the game across all
these fronts and not just our championships. And you know, I'm just as proud of that as anything that I do within the championship realm, and I think all of us at the USJA are and it means a lot for the game.
Yeah, I think that's the thing that people don't realize is how far, how much UH impact these championships have on the entire game of golf. John, I really appreciate the time and look forward to talk to you again and hopefully closer to the championships. And you know, we're I think everybody's excited for for the USGA's big four championships that are coming this uh this late summer and fall.
Well, I appreciate you having me on it's UH I would love to do at anytime, and even more so, I would love to see you and shake your hand at the USA Championship in the near future again.